Guild Wars 2

Kageseigi.2150:

…
Thieves are not real players! They are merely AI that anticipates a player’s actions. That would account for all of the oddities that gets attributed to latency. So a Thief is just slightly different from a Ranger’s pet. Not necessarily better… just different.
…

Bro, are you real?
Am I even real?
What is real?
What is?
What?

Kageseigi.2150:

Zero Day.2594:

That mathematical model seems rather flawed, Dr. Kage.

Of course it does. It is based on ANet’s mathematical principles, not mine :-P

According to them…
(4,344 * 1.1) = 4,344

…

As flawed as that may seem, I believe it comes from the same notion of +1 for the thief. Since we’ve already established that 0 < T < 1, T is then a fraction. However, players cannot be quantified in fractal form, as in there can’t be a half a player, they then proceed to round up T, giving it a value of 1. Like wise 1.1 is rounded down to 1 so that 4,344 * 1 = 4,344.

From this we can also deduce that T may very well be 0.5 <= T < 1, since in order to round a number up it has to be at least half or more.

Lock this thread please.

Can’t allow these toxic, trollish, whinning attitudes going on on these forums.

Kageseigi.2150:

Zero Day.2594:

Where T is the value of thief.

2+T vs 2 -> 2+T > 2
1+T vs 2 -> 1+T < 2

From this we can follow that T is 0 < T < 1 .

Thus, if two thieves were to + 1 a 3v5, it would still be 3 + 2T < 5 .

It also proves that a thief + 1’ing a 0v1 the opponent would still be at advantage, since 0 + T vs 1 -> T < 1 as shown above.

We just need a fight were X+T = Y to solve for T… and find out the true value of T (or rather, Thieves)

Unfortunately, it gets more complicated than that. Sometimes, T is actually negative. We must take the number of opponents into account.

t: Thief
a: Ally
o: Opponent

a = o

If xo <= 1o, then t > 0

If xo > 1o, then t < 0

so…

t + 1a > 1o

but…
t + 2a < 2o

---

But even that doesn’t tell the whole story. We have yet to even get into the value of a Thief with low health… and don’t even get me started on how much a downed Thief will cost your team. It’s deducts at least 0.5 from your total… probably closer to a full 1!

That mathematical model seems rather flawed, Dr. Kage.

For the first is done when you set a = o.

If we accept all that, then

t + 1a > 1o

and

t + 2a < 2o

Become

t + 1a > 1a

and

t + 2a < 2a

Since a = o.

We can then divide both sides by 2 on the second inequality:

t + a > a

and

(t + 2a)/2 < a

Factor out t from the second equation:

t/2 +2a/2 < a

The 2’s cancel out, resulting in:

t/2 +a < a

and

t + a > a

These statements would make it impossible for t to be anything but 0. However we’ve already proven that t is 0 < t < 1.

merrykitten .9423:

nah having too many +1 gives you a negative effect. so it’s actually +1-1 which is 0

Kageseigi.2150:

Zero Day.2594:

But don’t the thieves + 1 the 3v5. So + 1 + 1 is +2? 3 + 2 =5 …

Don’t you remember? Thieves are the “+”…. not the “1”

Thieves only +1.
They do not +2 or +3 or +4.

Because Thieves only enter fights where their team’s number of players equal the opposing team’s number of players.

So a +2 would mean that there is currently a 2v2 before the Thief enters.

And any fight where there are at least 2 opposing players means a Thief will melt do to AoE’s or get hacked up by cleave.

Therefore, Thieves only +1… and only against certain builds and in certain situations.
Basically, out of all of the possible combat scenarios, a Thief only engages in very specific opportunities. Think of such scenarios like prizes…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQkbXWwJhQ

Thanks guys, I can now thief math.

I had a more mathematical approach:

Since thieves can +1 even fights to make things uneven but cannot +1 fights to make then even the following is true:

Where T is the value of thief.

2+T vs 2 -> 2+T > 2
1+T vs 2 -> 1+T < 2

From this we can follow that T is 0 < T < 1 .

Thus, if two thieves were to + 1 a 3v5, it would still be 3 + 2T < 5 .

It also proves that a thief + 1’ing a 0v1 the opponent would still be at advantage, since 0 + T vs 1 -> T < 1 as shown above.

We just need a fight were X+T = Y to solve for T… and find out the true value of T (or rather, Thieves)

merrykitten .9423:

Zero Day.2594:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

…
In all honesty though, thieves do need more nerfs. They still occasionally show up in pvp matches on the same team.

But does the team win?

How do they win? The team with the two thieves is the same as having only three players, so it’s a 5v3 :P

But don’t the thieves + 1 the 3v5. So + 1 + 1 is +2? 3 + 2 =5 …

Azure The Heartless.3261:

…
In all honesty though, thieves do need more nerfs. They still occasionally show up in pvp matches on the same team.

But does the team win?

Yeah bro, the QQ post lacked a bit of but-hurt feelings and emotions… It also didn’t help that you were quickly point out every “thief” player…

Yeah, I think he’s a troll… or trying too hard to troll… Like pointing out each “thief” player…

This can’t be a real QQ post.

What do you guys think?

RedSpectrum.1975:

You guys are taking the bait so hard right now

kitten IT.

I KNEW IT.

IT WAS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE….

kitten you merrykitten for breaking my heart…

This can’t be real guys…

Is this real?

It can’t be…

Pretty kitten sure it’s a troll… But on the other hand really wish this is a legitimate QQ post… I just don’t know anymore… It’s been too long…

For boss fights, such as the wyverns, I personally stick to a ranged weapon – On a rev that is hammer (lol, yup, I kittening chuck hammers at 1200 range… LOL oh and they pierce too xD). Sooo… the thief equivalent, of a ranged weapon that does damage, would be something like P/P or P/D. Mainly because the toxic/fire kitten that the wyverns spew and then sit in really does damage … I shudder to think what that damage feels like on a thief…

What: Thief
Why: Cuz shiro rev too OOOOPPPP

Sagat.3285:

Zero Day.2594:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zero Day.2594:

Obligatory

“You’re supposed to play thief as it’s role, +1’ing and de-capping. It’s not meant for anything else – L2P”

post.

Uncover their bases and get them from behind when one of your own is already getting them from the front

And so, we shall call the role “The Porn Star”.

I’m disappointed this didn’t have the effect it should on me but +1 anyway.

Oh gigidy

RedSpectrum.1975:

Zero Day.2594:

Obligatory

“You’re supposed to play thief as it’s role, +1’ing and de-capping. It’s not meant for anything else – L2P”

post.

Uncover their bases and get them from behind when one of your own is already getting them from the front

And so, we shall call the role “The Porn Star”.

RedSpectrum.1975:

…
Said it once I’ll say it again, Shiro Tagachi on Revenant was what thief should have been

That’s what the elite for thief should have been. Thus opening up an assassin/brawler/dueler role. To be honest, the S/A or S/Shield builds for shiro, also depend quite a bit on herald.

But yeah, that’s why I’m mai’ning rev till it starts to feel sub/on-par – then I will switch again to w/e is op/flavor-of-the-month – Because hey, if kitten can’t be properly balanced in 3 years… might as well take advantage of it for the next 3 years – instead of QQ’ing about how UP my class is.

If you think about it… all those L2P’s kind of equate to “do something about it” – Well I’m, I’m rolling w/e is OP. That way I can play as opposed to struggle to play sometimes – did I learn how to play just now? lolz

Or…
Roll a rev.
You won’t need stealth.

Obligatory

“You’re supposed to play thief as it’s role, +1’ing and de-capping. It’s not meant for anything else – L2P”

post.

As much as I would want this…

I know that all they will do is run away and back-cap/+1 – since I’m pretty sure that’s their existing mentality.

Like it won’t be very interesting, it will probably have minimal fights if any.

Tempted to go through nerf wish list and see how many actually came true, now that there’s a list of changes…

Then again, too busy enjoying the game on my rev. :P

Beldin.5498:

Unseenchaos.7036:

lol what.

Please research before you make a topic. An engine isn’t simply a dropbox where you select “Cry Engine” or “Unreal Engine” lol.

Haha .. yeah like you can order a Mini Cooper or Beetle and select a Chevrolet,
Ferrari or Maserati motor for it

Pretty much this.

Hey, let’s upgrade your building’s frame from steel to titanium.

If they do decide to do this, they might as well make it GW3 while at it.

Nocta.5274:

…
And yeah, acronym are getting out of control, its really annoying.

Should just be DrD for D a r e D evil. Funny… “DD are evil”.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Thief-essence-sap-steal-broken

Lol… Apparently we’re giving rev’s a hard time… lol… oh man… people… never cease to amaze me.

“End game” – define that.

sPvP, you’ll be +1’ing (well less than +1), and de-capping.

WvW, you’ll be roaming… :P if you thought WvW had issues with rewards, while roaming you get even less! – Well at least it “fun” for some people.

PvE/raids – not sure where we stand, probably not far away from bottom. Honestly, I’ve finished HoT story, played through all the maps, and within the week I’ve only seen 2-3 thieves on the new maps (not counting the time we cap’ed the GH).

Found on:

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/24767535-dnt-thief-build-for-dungeons-fractals-102815

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sorry Zero, wrong Runes…it is a common knowledge that the best Rune for that purpose is Rune of Air. It’s a rune made specially to do that since the rune is useless in combat scenario.

And use Channeled Vigor when traveling for more endurance.

Also, you need to swap one of your skills to Haste for faster crafting. HiS + Haste can rupture the space-time continuum due to its ridiculous crafting speed.

Yeah made the modification. Here’s the update:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAVFn8lClOh9OBWOhlqiy7COhAo7BY+63+xH-TpwHQAy9HAPBAA

glaphen.5230:

Pretty useless build, this item already does everything your Thief does but faster.

While that is a legitimate opponent to the build, it relies either heavily on RNG, gold to convert to gems, or a credit card to acquire the item. This build doesn’t rely on those ways to excel at what it does.

Plus that item requires you to have one bag slot empty. Not to mention it will cause a loading screen, increasing the time it takes to get to the services.

Actually unsure of the loading screen, just guessing.

Don’t worry guys, I’m paving the way to the new meta with this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/New-Crafter-TP-Bank-Meta-Build/first

I rarely (read: never) post builds because i usually rip other builds off and modify to my liking… But this build will blow your mind.

I believe that this build will set the meta for thieves everywhere. I call it the Crafter/TP/Bank build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAVFn8lClOh9OBWOhlqiy7COhAo7BY+63+xH-TpwHQAy9HAPBAA
(Now with rune of air and channeled vigor)

Provides exception mobility utilizing acro/trickery lines and the brand spanking new daredevil specialization. It excels and blows other classes and builds out of the water when it comes to getting between the crafting stations, the TP, and the bank.

This also gives us more role diversity. No longer will you be back/de-capping, +1’ing, or being downed, with this build, you will be crafting, banking, and tp’ing.

Now, with great power, comes great responsibility. Use it at your own risk.

P.S. You can also swap one of the SB to D/D for HS spam on even land.

P.S. Switch withdrawl to HiS when crafting. It’s well known that you get a crafting speed boost when in stealth.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Thief PvP meta will definite require a buddy pet’s pet system.

Fixed.

Don’t get a wyvern as your master, they fly up and can potentially choke you with the leash.

Guys guys…

Quit crying and wasting nerves (some can’t regenerate…), just re-roll. I recommend a revenant, Shiro S/A feels like an assassin try that.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I’ve seen some Thieves wields both.

I personally like Bolt.

Yeah I kind of want to go for bolt because that way both my rev can have it and if some miraculous update comes along and fixes thief, the thief will have it as well.

bliss.4305:

…
Seriously, are they handing out Incinerators to all newly created thieves as a compensation for their horrible choice of class now?

…

Can this please be a thing. I want to get reimbursed for wasting my time on the thief. And I prefer bolt as my means of compensation.

So conflicted I’m… On which to get.

Only my necro and thief can use the incinerator. – No longer main thief.
Only my rev and thief can use bolt. – I now main a rev.

Plus I have the +500 CoF tokens for incinerator…
While I have 0 tokens for bolt…

Q.Q HELP

Serious Thought.5394:

Via one trait.
….

Impossible.

While I support the “Campaign to Increase Build Diversity”, it will take a whole lot more than one trait to make a meaningful difference.

Actually scrap that, I support the “Campaign to Increase Role Diversity” which does impact build diversity, but on a much wider scale – as in build diversity might mean that you can have different flavors of DPS builds, whereas role diversity means different roles (support, dps, bunkering) accompanied by a build (or two).

Jana.6831:

For those who think that all thieves are trolls, here’s what happened yesterday in [Teef]

Thief 1 (whisper) : I need a guild hall to troll the guild.
Thief 2: Glad we finally have our guild hall, GJ! And btw if you want to decorate it neatly, be prepared that I redecorate everything to make it all messy.
Me: Yo guys, since I’m on EU and don’t own HoT; I bought this pumpkin which I can’t place, can any of you do that on NA so I can see whether or not it’s placed on EU as well?
Thief 3: Sure! Placed it, can you see it?
Me: Nah.
Thief 3: But I placed it, you should see it!
Me: I can’t, unless you hid it somewhere where I can’t find it…
Thief 3: Ha-Ha!

Good job getting our troll cave, guys!

It’s hidden somewhere real special… Just have to look for it ;D

lol

Ugh, I think it’s two seperate guildhalls for EU and NA. So despite the pumpkin being placed on the NA side, no pumpkin was placed on the EU side.

So, you should switch to NA to solve your problem of the missing pumpkin.

Side note to everyone that’s joining. We’re taking people from both NA and EU…

It’s funny, there wasn’t a stream for DrD a couple of days ago, and now this lol…

Though I really do want to hear it from him/his video…

The bit of “Didn’t rage swap, so he deserved to play ranger” doesn’t really mean much.

Didn’t you get the memo… If you’re not a rev, you’re doing it wrong.

Magic Toker still around though?

+1 decapping meta?

If so, we’re TOTALLY fine guys, and are just a bunch of whiners.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Doggie.3184:

Gimme an invite.

You’re an old thief member how have you NOT been invited yet?

He was too stealthy…

Fellow mortal teefs. With the release of the expansion and a bunch of features, came the ability to talk to guilds w/o rep’ing.

We ask you to make a chat tab/room for the [Teef] guild and join in on the talk/trolling/link-spamming and other bizarre kitten that goes on. Don’t be shy :|

Thanks.

It’s kind of a scapegoat class, in the sense of nerfing.

The hate the people posses is equivalent to that of a child’s free of the dark. Supposed the fear of the dark still comes from our stone-age-hide-wearing days where night time meant scary kitten would try to eat us… until we discovered fire…

Likewise most people are conditioned to the rogue/assassin/ninja archetype to be kind of this “cheap” 1 burst character that 1 shots people out of nowhere.

That’s my take on it.

Roll a rev. You can play every class on that one class. Want to play thief on a rev? Shiro S/X. Want to play a support? Ventari… So on…

Maugetarr.6823:

Our output isn’t that bad actually if you’re traited for it. The problem is that traiting for damage significantly affects our survivability. On my warrior, for example, I feel like I can take 1 offensive line and 1 defensive line and still put out excellent sustained damage with good survivability. With my thief I feel like I am making a hard decision between the two and not able to take both simultaneously. What’s worse is our non-stealth defensive line is in pretty shabby condition, so our build choices are pretty limited; there’s no real sustain build anymore that doesn’t rely on stealth.

/thread

PopeUrban.2578:

Zero Day.2594:

Is this discussion supposed to be going somewhere?

It is a discussion about core thief balance. Experience indicates that it is not in fact going anywhere. Maybe this is the one though!

Oh. Well, goodluck getting your voices heard.

Is this discussion supposed to be going somewhere?

It will be a tooltip fix. The best fix.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Stop trying to crush my dreams you kittens T.T. Bow gerdian and jumpteef op.

Oh we’re not trying to crush your dreams….

We’re just telling you that they will be crushed by ANet’s nerf bat…

:D We’re actually very nice people warning you about the things ahead.

Doggie.3184:

Zero Day.2594:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Pay 50$ to not get rekt. Sounds pay2win, unless there’s an actual textbook definition for it

Typically it’s something you can purchase via micro transaction that gives you a clear advantage, for instance stat boosters.

Now-a-days people stretched the definition so thin that having a better internet connection is probably considered p2w.

Hello Mr Buzz Killington, how was your day?

It was okay. Not many Buzzes today to kill.

How as your day Mr. Doggie?

T raw.4658:

The original P2W actually was Cable Internet vs 56k Dial Up.

I remember those days…. Where having friends call you was a liability… and so they disappeared…

On the subject of p2w though, even if you consider these classes as clear advantages (for w/e personal reason) I doubt they will last long before they garb the cash and beat em down with a nerf bat. ;D

Jana.6831:

Zero Day.2594:

Love it when people use the term pay2win so lightly.

Pay to be competitive?
As I don’t think any of the vanilla thief builds will be viable in hot without DD.
Not quite sure about D/P, they might still make it.

Btw @ OP – nice video =)

Eh kind of close I guess, though it’s more of a power-creep/balance issue really…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Pay 50$ to not get rekt. Sounds pay2win, unless there’s an actual textbook definition for it

Typically it’s something you can purchase via micro transaction that gives you a clear advantage, for instance stat boosters.

Now-a-days people stretched the definition so thin that having a better internet connection is probably considered p2w.

Nah, P2W is having SSD, i7 CPU, and 980 Ti GTX graphics.

Internet connection will always be crappy. No amount of money can buy a flawless connection.

Lol.

It’s just, I don’t think some people ever ran into or saw p2w… It’s a pretty negative term and throwing it around so kittening lightly… O well, new wave of gamers, here they are!

SlayerSixx.5763:

What is, generally, the amount your average micro transaction must reach when it gives you an advantage for it to be considered pay2win?

It’s not the amount of micro transactions… it’s something that’s readily available for purchase via micro transactions that gives a clear advantage. Another example is say there were “VIP” weapons that you could buy (ofc they expire after x days or don’t and just VIPv2 weapons come out) that had a 20% stat increase on ascended gear.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Pay 50$ to not get rekt. Sounds pay2win, unless there’s an actual textbook definition for it

Typically it’s something you can purchase via micro transaction that gives you a clear advantage, for instance stat boosters.

Now-a-days people stretched the definition so thin that having a better internet connection is probably considered p2w.

Wonder what these people will sound like 3 years later.

Love it when people use the term pay2win so lightly.

Keep going guys.

Nice video though.