Guild Wars 2

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Cynz.9437:

pistol buffs by 20% and swiftness duration…………… yeah that gonna totally help vs all the condis and elite specs of other classes……….. :|

…it’s something…

…. to run away with….

Kocoff.7582:

…
Thief

-pistol damage buff 20%
- Potent poison 10 -> 33%
- Vigorous recovery 5 to 7
- epeditious dodger +

There wasn’t enough to cover everything.

Well… If that was their main thing….

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Jana.6831:

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Cmon guys…it’s not over. When HoT rolls around and we haven’t changed, then we can have our funeral…but for now let’s just see what happens.

:D

sorry

:D

:D

Not like it can get any worse right?

Profession balance is streaming now.

Yeah….

Maybe it’s the way they presented things… But now that have seen ALL the elite specs, DrD seems very lackluster. Maybe it’s the very awkward looking animations (the twirls, the idling…), maybe it’s our base trait line getting gutted beforehand, maybe it’s because it doesn’t really bring anything new besides revival of old builds (partially due to the gutting)…. The mechanic for it looks very thin as well, “hey let’s just give an extra dodge…” not to mention that the grandmaster traits are pretty much the mechanic as well (so, 3 less traits, kind of, to bring out the full mechanic of the elite spec…).

Also, I don’t think the thief will have a place in HoT, even in general PvE… During the druid reveal the guy was saying how the HoT environment is more harsh and dangerous – and more conditions…

:/ Can’t say that the elite spec is a selling point for me. If anything it’s a turn off.

Still watching the stream, and gotta watch the raid one tomorrow before I come closer to a conclusion of buying it or not…

Bright side is, they’re not doing anything conversational at this point (like handling the bundling poorly).

Also, kind of happy for rangers, they really needed something shinny. – Not being sarcastic or anything.

You kind of can’t, since it’s a 2-handed weapon. The other slot is permanently used by SB.

Originally by: Raiden.1375

What: Total Thief Rebalance
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Total-Thief-Rebalance/first

Welcome, to the Change Wish List.

(Adding soon as my flood control is down…)

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

My signature in blood…wish I could have gotten it to display in the text box…
http://i.imgur.com/tUaabar.png

I wish my blood would write so diligently and in gradient.

Clearly he’s not aware of the amazing roles that thief provides which are not, but are, limited to:
1. +1’ing
2. Back-capping.

Originally by: Orpheal.8263

What: If it would be your Job to Redesign the Thief
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/If-it-would-be-your-Job-to-Redesign-the-Thief/first

added to change wish list

:|

Trait: Thief’s Rage
Function: Every attack applies 2-3 stacks of 15 seconds burning. Every targetable skill also causes 2-3 stacks of 15 seconds burning. (No ICDs)

(Stick this into w/e trait line and however many times across different trait lines as you wish.)

That would be my suggestion for an OP buff/gift.

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

Amante.8109:

Zero Day.2594:

Originally by: ronpierce.2760

What: Thief Suggestions… From a Non-Thief
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Suggestions-From-a-Non-Thief/first

Seconded. There’s some solid ideas in there.

It’s a bit funny, if you think back, non-thief players would come and QQ and would populate the Nerf Wish List…

Now one of them actually made it to the Change Wish List. It’s like hell froze over or something.

I try to be fair. What I didn’t like about the Nerf Wishlist thread was that it promoted toxic seizure of other people’s threads. This is a much better thread in terms of being useful.

And that’s the major distinction between this thread and it’s counterpart.

The Nerf Wish List was never meant to be taken seriously, just like those QQ posts that it linked back to. If you read any of them, you can just smell the but hurt cries because they got outplayed/beat/caught off guard or simply or not willing to bring their skills up but would rather complain to get it “fixed”.

Amante.8109:

Zero Day.2594:

Originally by: ronpierce.2760

What: Thief Suggestions… From a Non-Thief
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Suggestions-From-a-Non-Thief/first

Seconded. There’s some solid ideas in there.

It’s a bit funny, if you think back, non-thief players would come and QQ and would populate the Nerf Wish List…

Now one of them actually made it to the Change Wish List. It’s like hell froze over or something.

Jana.6831:

Thank you, Zero, I guess Cynz and I will kind of share one as we see each other frequently.

Oh lighten up, here are badges for the both of you….

@Sagat, Sir Vincent III, Cynz, Shogun,Jana

Here’s 3 badges for you guys…
Due to the supply limits, two of you will need to steal the badge from someone else if you want it.

Sagat.3285:

Zero Day.2594:

Kolly.9872:

It is idiotic to think that thieves are allowed to use only one playstyle per patch. Also even from a marketing point of view, destroying one class customization for giving visibility to the new shiny spec, forcing everyone to buy and using it, is not a good move. A lot of people I know that are all veterans with 3 years of gw2 experience are not even going to buy the expansion till there will be good balance, matchmaking and a working soloQ. So forcing this people out of the game is not good for the pvp community that is still suffering in numbers

See that’s the veterans.

New players don’t know any of that. And I’m getting a strong feeling that new players is all that they really care about. Which makes sense.

Thief is not noob friendly though neither is the “+1 and decapping role”. Noob thief vs noob anything will lose the easier choice for a new player would be to not play thief thus ignoring DD leaving DD to a few veterans or some fanboys. Most of the news one are also f2p accounts so they would rather switch class then spend money at least the sane ones. There is no way around of this making sense unless I am missing a big scheme.

Until they start trying reach out to other resources besides in game and kind of wake up, they won’t know what +1 ’ing even means… Like they will just happily play their thief until frustration and switch. Those that start to read around and see how bad it is, are still fresh and full of hope, so they will wait a year or two and maybe try to “master” the class. Essentially the same thing will happen to them as it has happened to us.

Do they really care what class you’re playing as long as your playing? If there’s a way to keep you in the game longer, theres a chance that you will drop some money on gems.

Plus with the influx of new players, everything will seem cheery to them, good population, people are friendly, why strand from the game when everything is fine (for now).

New players can then be broken further down into kind of PvE, sPvP, WvW categories like always… In PvE most thing work, so until the player reaches a point where people start kittening at them and they get frustrated with it, they wont seek out any other sources of information, again kind of remaining blind the the issue. sPvP is a different beast since they will realize it faster, though they will either attempt to “master” the class, get frustrated and leave, or (still being fresh and full of hope) give it some time to improve – Same thing for WvW, though in WvW then can branch out and try roaming or zerging. And when they’re frustrated, there’s also a chance of them not quiting the game but rather re-rolling and staying in the game. Time passes by, and 3 years later there’s another group of people that are just like us. Some of the new players will also become fanboys, and some RPers – the world is cheery as ever for them.

Get the drift? Essentially, they will repeat the same thing that we’ve been through.

It’s inevitable, and hence they can shaft the few players that are currently unpleased.

(Hell, cycle through this a couple of times, and you will be left with plenty of fanboys supporting your game, regardless of the decisions you’ve made in the past.)

./tin-hat-off

Too much work, not enough paid hours, job’s stressful plus you got kids screaming you suck on the forums – I’ll just leave a note saying do it tomorrow (3 years later… the note is covered by another note saying the same thing) and do what makes me happy today, I guess, or maybe go help the gem store people out/HoT sales/marketing team.

I think that’s core philosophy.

While I haven’t played DrD, let alone the game for god knows how long now (end of LS 2?), reading the DrD traits did make it seem like it was the most coherent line out of all the other thief lines…

In all honesty guys, everyone that’s been rattled lately, and everyone that’s been pouring out suggestion after suggestion, I highly doubt that we will see core changes for BWE3 or even before/at release of HoT. The earliest possible balance patch would be a couple (3-4) months after the release of HoT, and even then I think it will be geared more around elite specs. – ( This is just speculation of course, but it would make sense, since the elite specs, given enough actual play time will show their unbalances ) – And you can also tell that nothing this “grand” will happen because they would have likely announced it as “The Big Core Rework”, followed by a couple of weeks of PoI (or w/e the new stuff is called) with of course a couple breaks/holidays in between, and around next year summer would be the earliest that they actually implement it.

It’s of course admiring how much you guys care about the game/class… If that makes you feel any better.

Originally by: ronpierce.2760

What: Thief Suggestions… From a Non-Thief
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Suggestions-From-a-Non-Thief/first

Kolly.9872:

It is idiotic to think that thieves are allowed to use only one playstyle per patch. Also even from a marketing point of view, destroying one class customization for giving visibility to the new shiny spec, forcing everyone to buy and using it, is not a good move. A lot of people I know that are all veterans with 3 years of gw2 experience are not even going to buy the expansion till there will be good balance, matchmaking and a working soloQ. So forcing this people out of the game is not good for the pvp community that is still suffering in numbers

See that’s the veterans.

New players don’t know any of that. And I’m getting a strong feeling that new players is all that they really care about. Which makes sense.

Originally by: Ohoni.6057

What: Fixing Thief/DD
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Fixing-Thief-DD/first

As far as I can tell, the old Feline Grace gave back 1/3 of your endurance, meaning on a 100 endurance bar you could get 3 dodges in succession before running out.

Considering that the DD gives 150, and a dodge costs 50, you would have infinite dodges.

So, it won’t come back as it was, at most they can make it return 30-33 endurance, to allow 3 dodges without DD and keep DD from having infinite dodges. Though it would still give DD way more dodges than people will like… So, I doubt it will come back as it was, it will most likely remain the same due to the DD.

Also adding this thread to the Change Wish List.

Kocoff.7582:

The Real Thief Support Group: Thief PvP/ WvW Videos posted on the forums.

…

Yes, yes WvW videos…

meepeY.2867:

My name is meepeY and my Thief is called Shade Blackheart… And I too, am a Thief-aholic. I don’t enjoy playing but I keep on going and I don’t know why.

Oh god the shame

Oh and here are your badges guys.

I find that reading/trolling the forums is more fun then playing on my thief

And my name is Zero Day.

Black Frog.9274:

My name is Qixit and… I’m a thief-aholic.

Hi Qixit.

Here’s your first session badge.

Our three inherent advantage are:
1. The ability to quickly go between bank and the trading post.
2. Increased crafting speeds in stealth.
3. Pleasure from self inflicted suffering. (Masochism)

Slowmelt.8547:

Maugetarr.6823:

Cynz.9437:

Want to have extra frustrating time? Play w/o vamp runes on thief….. :|

If you’re a masochist, play without vamp runes, shadow arts, or any stealth utility on your skill bar.

Apparently I’m a masochist

I’m just not that kind of Thief.

Everyone that mains a thief is. Some are just so indulged in pleasure that they’re unaware.

They also balance around golems in the PvP lobby.

Odds that Thief gets a buff, is the same as going to the nearest gas station, buying 1 lottery ticket, and winning with it.

The second coming will probably happen sooner than a proper class balance (which almost equates to a complete class overhaul at this point).

Maugetarr.6823:

Cynz.9437:

Want to have extra frustrating time? Play w/o vamp runes on thief….. :|

If you’re a masochist, play without vamp runes, shadow arts, or any stealth utility on your skill bar.

And only with 1 dagger, record the kills, make a montage video, and post it up on PvP forums. Then enjoy the QQ’ing and the nerfing to come.

Kocoff.7582:

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

Thieves will be the class that people who want to learn to play select

Not sure about that

lol that map chat was amazing lol.

---

There are three things right now that really matter to me:

BWE3, including a focus on fighting Scrappers, Druids, Heralds.
the dev’s current response to our feedback.
the dev’s vision of the Thief, explained in details. The most important one.

If we don’t get the last one on lock, all our suggestions will be baseless and inaccurate.

Good luck with those.

To keep us down they can ban us on the forums… Yeah that might provoke a refund or not buying the expansion, but the lose is like a drop in the ocean considering how many new players will join…

It would be nice of them to listen to anything or perhaps even respond to anything. But even that might even only partially happen. And that’s only because the elite spec is around.

The only way that they seemed to have listened was during the kitten storm when they announced the pre-purchase and the bundle that it had… But that essentially spread to everywhere – even a couple reddits, that got thousands of views. A fair portion of the community was in an uproar for a couple days, and only after that they decided to throw in 1 extra character slot (lol…).

Comparing that incident to the tiny corner that the thief’s forum is, we’re like dust mites squealing on the ground while they’re the giant humans. And no, the amount of us can’t even cause asthma.

Essentially, find a new game that’s more fitting to your liking while following this one along and enjoying the destructive development.

Man, you’re my hero for wearing that signature. Had a good laugh, thanks.

As for the actual question(s), that’s just advertisement/pretty text to describe something. It’s needed in most things otherwise the world would look plain.

Cynz.9437:

1. they don’t have time
2. they won’t do it because players expect them to play well (which they can’t) so it would just lead to public embarassment and griefing

Why would i say it? I did talk to some devs i met in HotM last year or so. He did say they have very little time to play this game and that they can’t objectively observe and judge how this game works while playing well at the same (also due to lack of experience due to lack of time) as players expect them to.

Lastly, i have high suspicion that class balance is not based on actual balancing logic or feedback but on markting strategy. What do devs want to sell right now? Expansion. How do you motivate players to buy xpac? Make elite spec mandatory (probably also reason why thief is being nerfed to the ground so thief players reroll revenant).

1. Time can be allotted if they see fit/benefit from it.
2. Well, that’s on us not to expect anything of them, and treat them as normal players…
(like hell, they can go incognito for this, but at the very least DO IT).

The bit about “they can’t objectively observe and judge how this game works while playing well at the same” is wrong in my opinion. They will get more real practical observation from playing amongst normal players…

Sagat.3285:

Ohoni.6057:

Assassins were awesomely designed, and what I thought I would be getting from Thief in GW2 originally. I would gladly sacrifice Shortbow #5 and every source of stealth if we could be a lot more like Assassins from GW1.

They have that, it’s called a Revenant.

Revenant is proof that the devs read the thief forum.

Appropriate?

They just might be mis-directing their changes to other classes…

Amante.8109:

People keep saying that stealth “isn’t a Thief mechanic” because other professions have access to it, but there isn’t a single profession in the game besides Thief that relies on stealth just to be able to survive. For everyone else, it’s merely icing on the cake of all the other tools and options they have.

Focusing on evasion over stealth is ostensibly the right approach to be taking with a Thief elite specialization, but it will change very little if the massive design flaws afflicting Thief’s core skills and traits aren’t addressed.

Thief has gotten all of one official response in the last 3 months on anything not related to selling the expansion, and it was to say that Pistol is “something [they’re] looking to improve”. The language on that is so safely worded and vague—and the concern it’s addressing so far down the list of important, profession-breaking issues—that it makes me think they have little to no intention of addressing core Thief problems any time soon.

So, about the “stealth isn’t a Thief mechanic because other professions have access to it”, that’s just about it, as in I think when people say X is Y’s mechanic, they mean that it’s Y’s exclusive mechanic. So like Steal would be a Thief’s mechanic, or clones for Mesmers.
The weird bit comes in when one of the Thief’s mechanic’s – hidden/stealth skills (say Back Stab) – depend on stealth. By that, it is indirectly a Thief’s mechanic in a way. And like you’ve said, that there isn’t a single profession in the game besides Thief that relies on stealth just to be able to survive, makes it seem even more that it is a Thief’s mechanic – but that’s only due to poor quality of the class.

Amante.8109:

PopeUrban.2578:

In GW1, when they designed assassin, they purposely did so without implementing stealth as a mechanic. Their reasoning? It was hell to balance. Assassins were still really good at being bursty hit and run characters with fun to play mechanics due to mobility and unique combo chains.

Assassins were awesomely designed, and what I thought I would be getting from Thief in GW2 originally. I would gladly sacrifice Shortbow #5 and every source of stealth if we could be a lot more like Assassins from GW1.

They gotten beaten to a pulp by the nerf bat too you know…

Also made a post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/A-challenge-event-for-the-Devs/first

Please keep it more civil than on here… Maybe they could do something like that some day…

Why not, create a sPvP event day, where developers that balance classes come out into the game and play along side players, for a day. Hopefully trying out multiple classes, or just sticking to their mains (without saying so, it’s fine). And I don’t mean, with streamers/high-level/tourny players… Just yer’ole bunch of normal everyday players.

Same could be done for WvW.

This could be done before or after HoT of course, depending on your time/what-needs to be done.

I think there would be a benefit for the Devs to do this and in turn there would be a benefit for the players after.

Like, taking an example from life, there’s a huge difference between just being a tourist in a country, going around tourist attractions, and living there for a period of time – walking among the same crowd that lives there. If that makes any sense…

Jana.6831:

babazhook.6805:

Part of the issue is of course the seeming lack of communication between the DEVS responsible for each class. Class XXX lacks condition removal so lets give it more. meanwhile on class YYY “lets give this guy a skill that inhibits condition removal on class XXX”. Class XXX is now further behind then before.

+1

It really looks as if they didn’t talk to each other at all.

But they do test it out on the same golems…
If that counts…

PopeUrban.2578:

With all the reveal being passed around, isn’t it high time we had, as “masters of stealth” a trait that lets us, you know, cleanse revealed?

Or hey, fun idea, how about just dropping revealed applications from leaving stealth altogether, only self-apply reveal if we actually use a stealth attack, and spread all the reveal around to people’s skills in stead. Now people can feel good about having a “reveal the stealther” button, but thieves can still actually use the Shadow Arts traits?

Too much work.
Easier to tweak a couple of numbers and call it a day.

I can already see in WvW zergs being covered in stealth by like 3-4 engies…

Sagat.3285:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sagat.3285:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

. Only choice is to quit game or reroll.

Yep. Unfortunate but true.

There is a third choice offered by “he who knows his name”. Buy HoT and wait till staff can compete it was all a scheme I underestimated their work of balance as team. I kind of rerolled already I do have all classes after all.

Wait

vs

Pay money and wait

Lol ok

Just saying, if you want players to pay to be competent at a game with a specific class, you just moved into pay to win territory.

That’s a risk they will take at each expansion and it seems that the base class is balanced around the elite spec instead of the other way around so some players will be lost in the process.

But fear not! The new wave of blood will wash away the old and bring in waves of revenue through the gem-store (since new poeple don’t have skins).

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sagat.3285:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Cynz.9437:

. Only choice is to quit game or reroll.

Yep. Unfortunate but true.

There is a third choice offered by “he who knows his name”. Buy HoT and wait till staff can compete it was all a scheme I underestimated their work of balance as team. I kind of rerolled already I do have all classes after all.

Wait

vs

Pay money and wait

Lol ok

Just saying, if you want players to pay to be competent at a game with a specific class, you just moved into pay to win territory.

They didn’t by any means move to a p2w territory. That term is used way too lightly now a days… Best example of p2w is Archage on the NA side, just go have a look at their cash-shop. Or any other korean game, on the korean side.

Their actions (weird nerfs, gutting a trait line for elite, …) and inactions (not really fixing anything) have given them the bad rep. That and how they handled certain things, like the bundling of the core game and veteran rewards…

Like if you get past the hype they build up every so often to cover something up and look at the development/releasing of HoT, they really aren’t making too many good moves.

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

You missed my point, so good job. It is, but it’s shared, thus swapping to a different offensive set provides no real incentive, where as swapping weapons on a class with ACTUAL “cooldowns” does. Don’t jump in here to post ignorant memes, please.

Sorry, can’t stand when someone says no cool downs. It’s almost like an automatic reaction.

Well, I meant what I said, given the proper context. I’m not suggesting thieves are endless spammers, I’m saying that the lack of cooldowns on a given weapon provides no direct incentive to require more than one offensive weapon set. For this reason, unless weapons started providing VASTLY unique perks, given trait restraints, you’ll probably see most people only ever need one weapon set that’s traited to be fully effective, and the shortbow for utility.

Which yeah, is pretty true.
I was also kind of wonder about staff replacing SB when it was first revealed – It seemed like a more offensive counter-part to the SB, but still providing that #5 mobility skill … But then it was tested in BWE…. and the feedback doesn’t seem so great…

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

You missed my point, so good job. It is, but it’s shared, thus swapping to a different offensive set provides no real incentive, where as swapping weapons on a class with ACTUAL “cooldowns” does. Don’t jump in here to post ignorant memes, please.

Sorry, can’t stand when someone says no cool downs. It’s almost like an automatic knee-jerking reaction.

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

Shogun.7401:

Yay!!!! I got my money back. I will wait for them to fix the class and I will pay for hot. No more free money for these guys.

Those who paid for HOT and not happy with the thief class and looking for refund, log a ticket and you will get your money back.

And those that haven’t, please hold out until at the very least the next set of changes after the BWE3 – or even closer to the release date…. You’re not losing anything by not pre-purchasing right now – you’re actually getting something by not doing so, that is time to decide and the ability to watch community vs dev interaction and their understanding of problems and solutions…

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Losing 3/4 of your health bar to a thief or mesmer or indeed and engineer before even seeing your opponent is not fun.

Just my opinion but – stealth is annoying and the more counters to it the better.

THEN – classes that rely on stealth will need buffing in more interesting ways.

IMO this is good for the game.

This actually sums up the complained about problem… (Besides the idiotic one of “STEALTHZORS” from that people that are too but hurt to articulate themselves)

Like from the perspective of the guy getting 3/4 of their health dropped, yeah it’s not fun – but at the same time they’re not thinking about why the ganker is doing only that, or what the ganker has or doesn’t have (that kind of leads him into only doing that, ganking like so). Maybe if the guy getting his health dropped understood the other side, he would be okay with it or realize that there’s a deeper problem than just the gank that happened to him……

And yeah, there will need to be buffing in interesting ways – the things is bud, that we really can’t hold our breaths for any longer, that is if anyone is still holding.

ronpierce.2760:

Trancid.8514:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Tbh, there’s kinda threads doesn’t help us at all. When a net see’s threads like this I wounder why they even do anything any more

Balancing is never fun. It’s their job, they get payed for it.

People clearly have issues with how they are doing it. How about giving better feedback rather than creating a million "the sky is falling threads that do absolutely nothing.

Also, by the sounds of things, it’s you who is feeling a bit salty.

Please refer to:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Change-Wish-List

And the threads that are linked inside there, and the discussion that went on those threads. This is not to mention that I missed some.

There is a TON of feedback – not to mention right under their nose in the BWE3 sticky.

So tell me again why we can’t be salty that it’s being complete ignored.

Oh and our ranged weapon(s) has a maximum range of 900 as far as I’m aware.
(Well 900+240 – so 1340 – if done perfectly on a cluster bomb, just hope they don’t move…)