Guild Wars 2

By “under-tuned” do you mean that you will tune it by just adjusting numbers?

Kolly.9872:

To all thieves that still have to buy HoT. DON’T BUY IT
To the others, let’s ask all for a refund.
Let’s see if Devs understand our frustation.
I feel like I have blindly paid for something only for discovering later I had just paid for my Death.

Which, if payed by credit card, and they don’t refund you politely, can – you have to bu*lsh*t a bit – warrant you a refund via the credit card company.

Here’s my edit of the original:

“Thieves can move, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them. Thieves practice the fetal position fighting style.”

The bit about vanishing into thing air is in fact true, hit them once or twice and see what happens.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I hate to be that guy, but…

I think this reveal stuff is meant for the new stealthing enemies. Not all of it is aimed at the thief/mesmer.

I don’t think this would be as big of a problem if the acro line wasn’t so horrible.

Actually, it might very well be.
The problem is, we’re becoming on the same level as those stealthing mobs… Like there’s no defensive compensation for the nerfs.

And quite frankly, I wouldn’t hold my breath, as history has shown that it takes the a REALLY long time to fix something or implement something that’s much wanted – Example: scavanger-hunt for precursors (+ they half-as*ed one partial fix that they called the Ascended gear.)

For every reveal they add, they need to decrease this skill’s CD by 5.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Zero Day.2594:

Well, the Thief FAQ was/is true:

Tarkan.5609:

…

• Which professions do Thieves fear?
  Any class with one A inside.
  - WArrior
  - RevenAnt
  - GuArdian
  - RAnger
  - Angineer
  - NecromAncer
  - ElementAlist
  - MesmA

…

mesmer?

Mesma*, gotta spell it like ya say it.

Sagat.3285:

MrDire.6235:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The funny thing about this is that, while Karl is concern about balance _(not letting Thief be overpowered — which I support)

Nail on the head, but you cant blame him, because the moment thief is competent people will start crying

just accept it. Maybe if we try hard enough we’ll get nerfed again.

What’s left for them to nerf ?

SB #5…(drops mic)

There still:

Venoms, traps, crafting speed (in stealth), HS, ..

Man the list can go on…

Also, the Gu*a*di*a*n has two *a*’s – So it should be feared twice more.

Well, the Thief FAQ was/is true:

Tarkan.5609:

…

• Which professions do Thieves fear?
  Any class with one A inside.
  - WArrior
  - RevenAnt
  - GuArdian
  - RAnger
  - Angineer
  - NecromAncer
  - ElementAlist
  - MesmA

…

Amante.8109:

I think we need increased durability more than anything, as we are the squishiest profession in the game by a mile. Our damage is falling behind too, but the bigger problem is surviving the modern meta’s meat grinder long enough to even do any. The lack of durability also greatly limits the variety of builds Thief can bring to the table.

And yeah, that is what we need. It’s kind of simple.

Either make us hit HARD (And I mean like, drop light armored guys, 3/4 the mediums, and 1/4 – 1/2 the heavies), like an assassin – and possibly die after attempting the assassination due to low sustainability.
Or
Make us brawl/duel to get the kill by giving us sustainability in a fight.

Preferably though, it would be nice if we had the option of building into one of the two.

Counter play:

1. Roll a different profession,
2. Kill scrubs,
3. Get that profession nerfed,
4. Repeat steps 1-3 till all professions except the thief are nerfed,
5. Go on the thief, at this point it should be on par with other professions,
6. Kill the target that you originally wanted to kill.

May take sometime, but that’s the most successful counter-play I can think of, given if we QQ hard and long enough about a profession being OP it will get nerfed.

Seriously though, makes me want to buy the game even less now xD

Like Wildstar f2p is on the horizon (backed by NCSoft, so I aint gonna buy gem shop kitten), Overwatch beta is coming out, rumored Diablo 3 expansion is going to come out, SC2:LotV is coming out…. Won’t even have time to look back.

:P Don’t really understand why they can’t have a good hard deep look at classes, it’s a shame, but o well.

Slowmelt.8547:

…

I’ll probably see if I can’t convince Anet to switch the full bag slot unlocks I’ve paid for to the Rev, but I doubt it. I guess my Thief will just become a mule.

Due to our high mobility, we’re really good at getting between the trade post and the bank. So I think a thief is well suited for this role.

Ryou.2398:

Dagins.5163:

The entire weapon set could be pretty much fixed by replacing ‘body shot’ with an actual skill that does something - quite surprising nobody mentioned it yet. Ricochet isn’t needed here, unless you want AoE in PvE environment, but even then you should use shortbow instead. P/P is a single target nuke/control set.

So in general are thieves good for pve and just have issues in pvp?

In PvE, almost anything works. Once you start doing dungeons/fracts though there are better builds out there than p/p.

Kocoff.7582:

idk about you guys, but when I watch a pvp or WvW vid I think about how I can implement it myself. I think about the tweaks I can bring to the table to better suit my needs.

It’s matter of perspective. You guys see it as a “fart in the wind”, I see it as potential for experimentation.

Either way, OP should still take a look.

Basically, don’t get your hopes up after seeing a flashy video. That’s all.

Tabootrinket.2631:

Also :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghgg_fukbvU

You know how much QQ it would bring if we could wield a staff while biting our toe nails and whooping as*…

babazhook.6805:

Ausfer.1853:

Oh, and Karl: please, for the love of all things martial arts, if you won’t give us new staff animations, then at least give us the Monkey King idle and running animations. You already have those coded into the game and they look great!

I kept wondering what people were talking about with monkey king animations. So I looked for them. Yes they are neat.

Considering the had at least a picture with the same stance…

Straegen.2938:

Kocoff.7582:

I keep posting this vid. Daredevil P/P in PvP.

OP should take a look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbVXooJU7yg

Videos that are cut and edited to only show “wins” are about as useful as a fart in the wind. It isn’t even narrated discussing the counters used or why a particular fight is difficult/easy. It is a vanity video with no real value beyond showcasing a few victories.

As harsh as it sounds, that’s too true for all montages.

DarksunG.9537:

Have to admit, the Daedevil animations were pretty bad. Not martial art flavored at all, really bizarre “floating spinning staff” auto attacks that made zero sense..

this game, since launch has been super light on animations. What is the animation team working on? I highly doubt there are even a 1/10th the number of animations in HoT as the base game even though it's being made in 1/5th the time... No new emotes, very few class animations, we've seen a tiny handful of new mobs.. it's microscopic..

Making the environment look pretty and immerse whilst coming up with marketing plans to hype things.

:/ Maybe all their pro-animators quit after release.

Oh god, I was trying to find the picture of asura holding the staff in a cool way, came across this gem: Search “daredevil gw2 idle” on google and go to images, there’s one picture that stands out… xD and it’s from the BWE3 thread… lol…

Also found this:

And ofc the picture I was looking for:

While babaz’s point made sense, agro’ing random mobs while fighting…

Does this now mean they’re trying to balance for 1v1’s?

Like, it was a trait, if you were roaming, don’t take it… People that zerged with P/P got screwed hard, in PvE people got screwed. So turns out it was for the benefit of 1v1’s (that’s not even remotely a game mode)?

Is their justification really about 1v1’s?

And if I recall, now all that’s left for ranged AoE is SB auto and cluster bomb…

@Kocoff

:P Chill and play other games, follow this one along, it’s actually more amusing that way – watching from afar how things are going.

The other thing that’s clearly showing up is that specs revealed last/later are going to get less treatment (sure sucks for forge and druid, poor rangers xD) – since they’re still working on the ones revealed earlier. Yeah there will always be polish, but try to prioritize…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What: New Trait – Assassin’s Aura
Description: Grant Assassin’s Aura to nearby foes. Attacks deal damage to foes with Assassin’s Aura as if their armor is equal to zero (doesn’t affect damage reductions from buffs).

That’s just a tad-bit too strong to be considered a real change…

Originally by:

What: Thief Adjustments to the CORE
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Adjustments-to-the-CORE

Sweetmate.5903:

Completely underwhelming.

We still don’t have any way to clear conditions right away, any burst condi build will take 70% of our HP before we can get rid of the conditions. Seems like the traitlines aren’t going to be touched, so I’m guessing we’re gonna be stuck with less falling damage as GM trait?

The Daredevil spec still doesn’t fix any of the core problems the Thief currently has.

Because they’re conditions, they’re conditional to cleanse.
Get it?

yolo swaggins.2570:

My idea is better:

1.) Find player QQing about thief.
2.) Find out their main’s profession.
3.) Get on said profession.
4.) Kill player QQing about thief with their own profession.
5.) ??
6.) PROFIT

That won’t have any effect.
They might even start crying that the thief as the ability to swap professions in stealth (like you login out, and them not seeing you do that.,.. yeah… dumb I know, but I think they will believe that)

Sagat.3285:

I’ll start the “3 more years to go” movement in this section if no real changes occur or “Thief is the new necro”. “He who knows his name” fell off he wasn’t perfect or great but past decisions were better.

We should gather up youtube videos that were made ~3 years ago during the movement.

And I still need to fix the Nerf Wish List, and try to go through and point out the ones that came true.

1111/10,
Will read again.

Can we get this stickied please. (Or have this constantly bumped)

Also,
The GTFO rotation needs some dodges in there to get the speed buff so you can run faster.

Why are rangers being so defensive in this thread…?

They’re not the only ones that will get taunts…

Main point I got out of this thread so far is that it’s just unavoidable (be it via blind, dodge, stunbreaker, or w/e else we’re used to breaking CCs). In a PvE environment it’s okay, though in PvP enviroment, be it sPvP or WvW, it is something that needs to be talked about… And w/o getting classes involved too much, as that will just become a cry fest and derail the thread.

As much as some people would love animation changes (I’ve just watched videos…) as well as how the thief holds the staff on idle/while running changed – I don’t think that will happen, since it’s too “costly”/hard. While changing/tweeking numbers is editing a few variables/entries in a table – though mentally/logically straining… -, making/editing animations needs quite a bit more work along with polish to straighten them out. Like the current idle/running animation would essentially be scrapped and which ever group of people work on animations would need to redo the whole thing again. Can’t see that happening, considering they’ve already recycled some animations for the elite specs.

:P But then again, I’ve only barely touched model animations in my experiences… So maybe there are technologies/tools that make it a lot easier than I perceive.

Wouldn’t that kind of effect the economy in a negative way. Like given time most/everyone will have legendaries and all runes unlocked in a swappable system, and so the rune price will drop/decrease…? Whereas the runes not being swappable provide a goldsink (the tax).

Like I’m no econ major or anything but I can see that happening, no not in a month but over a greater span of time.

Maugetarr.6823:

Zero Day.2594:

MakubeC.3026:

At least we can all agree Thief resides at the bottom of the food chain right now.
That’s something because it means SOMEDAY we will get buffed a little (just as Rangers did a while ago). Sad thing is we may just switch places for worst class with Rangers again lol.

Depends on which forums you post this in…

Funnily enough, it seems like that’s not even being disputed really, but rather should the thief stay at the bottom because of their mobility. I mean looking through the state of thief in pvp thread, there’s very, very few people saying that the thief isn’t weak in a 1v1, most of the discussion and differences of opinion occur with some saying it should remain weak.

Really, we’ve reached that point already…

Guess I should read the PvP forums more… they just post in giant blocks of text most of the time…

At the same time, I have a feeling that HoT hype going on and all the “promised” shinny toys draws most of people’s attention atm.

PopeUrban.2578:

No, it was brought up around release in PvP balance, and a red post basically said “well, we didn’t design it to do that on purpose, but it’s a fun interaction and you guys seem to like it a lot so we’ll let it stand”

…

Their answer thusfar has been, basically, “give everyone else more stealth and reveal” in stead of “make thief have the limited but powerful stealth we designed them to have” because it’s easier to write and they don’t want to upset the house of cards and red posts they’ve made thusfar in regard to thief balance.

Well kitten, I must have missed one of their handful of posts :|

If by house of cards you mean pile of cards, then yes, it would be a shame if it gets blown away more and only a couple cards remain. The one thing I’m aware of is that they seem to be happy that the thief’s role is back-capping and +1’ing. Like there was a stream where the guy was acting cheery about it (I think they were previewing a pvp map in that stream/episode).

Here’s the episode for reference, skip to 9:36 – 10:25

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/12099037

PopeUrban.2578:

…
Remove other “accidental” stealth interactions like keeping 10s stealth after waiting out SR, etc.
…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Refuge (Pulses)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth (Stacks in duration)

As for as I’m aware, the 10s after waiting in SR is intentional, not accidental.

:| Though, most profs/teachers don’t give credit to wiki’s/wikipedia, so we need a dev in on this.

MakubeC.3026:

Allow them to transcend into Mesmers: Masters of deception and assassination.

I actually like that, allow them to re-roll/pick their class. Armor converts to the new class’ armor.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Zero Day.2594:

Was it:
Have a positive attitude about it and ignore the fact that it’s kitten?

No. It was “If you think it’s good, then it’s good. If you think it’s bad, it’s bad” Your experiences will generally confirm your opinions. If you think there’s potential and you can make it work, you’ll probably have a higher opinion than someone who thinks it’s worthless. It sounds pretty obvious, but it’s incredible how often people assume their opinion is fact applicable to everyone.

And if you think too highly of yourself and play only what you consider is good (yet numbers show otherwise)… well your digging yourself into hole.

Be open minded to other’s opinions as well…

Most people here, complete strangers to one another (for the most part), are saying p/p is in a bad place… So yeah… But that’s their opinion, right? Don’t have to consider them at all.
(Actually why post at all, asking opinions of others at that point)

MakubeC.3026:

At least we can all agree Thief resides at the bottom of the food chain right now.
That’s something because it means SOMEDAY we will get buffed a little (just as Rangers did a while ago). Sad thing is we may just switch places for worst class with Rangers again lol.

Depends on which forums you post this in…

DresdenAllblack.1249:

BTW, you shouldn’t play anything because its ‘meta’. Play it because you enjoy it.

End. Of. Discussion.

Well, that depends…

If you’re okay with some groups not taking you because you’re running either a sub-par build or a complete kitten build, then yeah. But I’m guessing you wouldn’t want to hang with those kinds of people either? Because they’re not accepting your idea of fun (well, actually, they probably don’t want to carry you and pull your weight in their spare time or when they themselves want to progress/improve)?

Don’t get me wrong, do what you want, have fun… Just be mindful when you group with people, that theres a certain weight they expect you to carry… Meta is there to get everyone performing at their best, or at least having the ability to and then it’s up to the skill of the player.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Thaddeus.4891:

I just don’t get all those post about how Thief is so far behind. Maybe it’s me that live in a bubble or I only play against bad players, but I just understand why the +1 isn’t valid. My teamates are able to hold their one long enough for me to come help them and we keep the points. D/D Ele have as much mobility, but don’t burst as much. I prefer the D/D holding a point than roaming between them. Especially since they can’t always have their Fiery GS up. True Mesmer can do a better job, but don’t have as much mobility except portal. Not saying that Thief is OP and it could take some love, but it’s far from behing push out of Meta.

Last time I checked, most team in WTS and ELS still have 1 thief.

“Most teams always have 1 thief” is a poor argument. You add more thieves to a team and more often than not that team suffers unless the thieves are more competent than the team. So explain to me how thief is OP again?

But but… Pro teams have at least 1 thief on their yolo swaggins… Clearly that’s a sign of OP-ness.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Zero Day.2594:

Beetamus.6403:

So they are just as good as D/D Elementalist? Must be why so many pro’s use them in tournaments…

The real answer is they are not great, but they are a lot of fun if you like the gunslinger theme, and if you kill people, you can relish it more.

If you stay oblivious and ignorant to everything, then they might actually be good. That and muting/blocking most people in PvP while doing so… :P

Basically, living in your own little world where you think that dual pistols are amazing.

Both of you severely misunderstood the entirely of that post

Was it:
Have a positive attitude about it and ignore the fact that it’s kitten?

Shinobi.3240:

Hmmm, anet is still quiet as a mouse.

I think the community would really appreciate it if they just share their oppinion on the topic.

• How did they experience the daredevil? Is it the agile fighter they wanted to create?

• Are they happy with the recycled animations? Does it meet their high standard?

• Are they working on changes already? What needs to change in their oppinion?

The community showed big interest and provided a lot of feedback. They spent hours of their time to find bugs for you.

Would be really nice if someone of the company could in exchange spend 5 minutes of their time and tell us about your plans.

Best regards!

Shino

Action is better than words in this case. We will see how the last BWE panes out.

Considering they have +7 pages (just in this thread) to work with, plus +200 posts on reddit… They should have enough to work with. I haven’t even played this game for god knows how long, and I know that the dodge animations were clunky, specifically pre and after cast times. But that’s just, one issue, as an example that I gathered from just reading/following along.

Probably a “meta” issue about all this is that there hasn’t been any/much content between now and god knows how long – and when something like this comes out, it just rattles the community and makes them “hot under to collar”.

Essentially, if you’re going to pull a stunt like that, do your very best that the content you release after a good while of not release is something that’s good.

I also sincerely hope that events in HoT are not like this.

As a “vet” or a player that played this game more in the past, and now just following along with it’s development and thinking on buying the expansion, this kind of bomb just makes me think less of coming back – and that’s besides all the other controversial things happening around the expansion (like for instance, how the HoT+core game bundle was handled).

Isn’t it to just make 1 mistake be a GG instead of half a mistake?

Kocoff.7582:

I will only switch if Thief takes another serious nerf. If that happens however, I will probably just quit…

Might as well start looking at other games now, cuz, that’s not an “if” it’s a “when”.

Beetamus.6403:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Just like everything else in the game, they’re just as good as your opinion of them is.

So they are just as good as D/D Elementalist? Must be why so many pro’s use them in tournaments…

The real answer is they are not great, but they are a lot of fun if you like the gunslinger theme, and if you kill people, you can relish it more.

If you stay oblivious and ignorant to everything, then they might actually be good. That and muting/blocking most people in PvP while doing so… :P

Basically, living in your own little world where you think that dual pistols are amazing.

Ryou.2398:

KngOfTheWorldMB.2634:

My PP works just fine.

So how do we get our pp to work better?

Magic “candy”…

Take it 45 minutes before battle.

bwillb.2165:

Thief is a bit of a tank role. They soak up all the nerf hits so other classes can be safe.

^ This.

Seriously though:

1. +1’ing fights. (Being the team’s female dog, basically – Other classes can +1 as well and better too, just they’re busy doing other things).
2. Back-capping. (Doing something that other class can, but don’t really want to when you’re around).

Both being because we’re very mobile. Everything else, leave it to other classes.

Cynz.9437:

I actually remember that one comical moment when rogue representation in wow fell to/under 1% due to constant nerfs and absurd power creep and blizz devs actually admitted that they can’t figure out why the class was so unpopular xD

Not sure what to hope for in gw2, i am experiencing déjà-vu atm <_<

Doubt that that will happen because one of my buddies and his guild think thieves are good. Well, they roleplay and PvE… So yeah, doubt it will drop below 1%. Plus, there’s a fresh wave of blood from the game going f2p and they hype around the expansion and whatnot… And even if we leave, the newbies will stick around and suffer for another 3 years.

choovanski.5462:

remember those icebow nerfs that were supposed to happen? me neither.
remember mending becoming a physical skill? no, it just got nerfed

these devs have shown to be capable of breaking promises and screwing up simple things. the sheer amount of unfixed bugs classes like ranger and Engi have from the specialisation patch, and from before are insane. I don’t trust the devs to keep their word or not screw up.

Likewise I feel the same.

The difference is I don’t kitten and just enjoy the chaotic ride of “balance”. They definitely wont come here to promise a fix for everything – I would really be surprised if they did – and even if they did, by now we’ve learned to take their word with a grain of salt.

So yeah, enjoy the “balance” ride.

Also, with the pvp ladder/rankings coming up… doesn’t that mean it will get slower? Since they really shouldn’t modify anything mid-season. Or perhaps they will balance before/after a season.

Easier to complain and get a nerf on something than to improve.

epoc.7941:

Killyox.3950:

Because that is not the theme of the class. Same like necros don’t have a lot of it. Same like reaper has a lot of chills because that’s the theme.

Don’t expect it unless they make an Elite Spec around it for you.

Im sure they could squeeze it in I always thought cluster bomb when u explode it could add bleeds and burns even if it’s just one stack since u can spam cluster bomb. Or maybe even add it to the trait that increases bow damage, “increase now damage and cluster bomb also adds one stack of burning when detonated” I don’t think it’s too op it would be really strong but not break the class imo

Actually, yeah, why doesn’t cluster bomb cause burning…? It EXPLODES for fudge sake. Where does the bleeding come from? Shrapnel? The splinters caused by wooden arrows? I would be down if it gave both burning and bleed.

fireflyry.7023:

Classes are symbiotic.

To just dream and theory craft fixes really doesn’t accomplish much unless your into wasting your time with “what if…” or “if only….” type hypothesis which really counts for squat and detracts from actual class mechanics and issues.

Without being more specific you’ll just get a bunch of dorks posting for lols.

Whatever floats your boat I guess but I’d say this is another thread from an OP that never replies while others use it for giggles.

In saying, more than happy to be proved wrong.

MrForz.1953:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Come now, we’re trying to be serious here.

Well… So far, let’s rejoice that no devs give any of those the ability to change Thief.

It’s mainly because numerous posts about how to change the thief have already been posted before… like maug just re-linked his.

And it’s going to take more than 5 minutes to make any decent change, so I think this post is tailored for the funzies.

wayneericgouin.9371:

Stealth causes all the nerd rage in every game.

There’s also a ninja in that room – and that’s his puppy.