Guild Wars 2

Shizzlenit.7648:

bwillb.2165:

Shizzlenit.7648:

Redscope.6215:

The problem is Quickness.

The buff needs to be removed…from ALL classes.

End of story.

it really is not quickness.

3,4k attack + 99% crit damage + 12 stacks of might sounds about right…

what are these random numbers you’re spouting supposed to be?

http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/thumbnail/gw099ywnc7tm9xg_thumb.jpg

http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/gw10285390zyx1f.jpg

Im sry its 15 stacks might (if you wanna waste ur blind) + 100% crit damage + 3,35k atk

guys im a thief myself too and ive been playing a backstabber since the beginning, i love it. But even i can see that this is probably not intended… the burst you pull of is riddicolous. My gear is not even full exotic at this point…

Edit: I dont wanna start a flame war … just voicing my opinion on this build that is going around these days …

your first pic is smaller than my asura’s little toe. try again.

Redscope.6215:

Judging by the fact that nearly all thieves that use Pistol Whip extensively have all logged on to say that they’re skilled players for spamming one skill and winning fights, I’d say its time for another Heartseeker nerf…I mean…Pistol Whip nerf.

No skill that does this should ever stun. Especially not one from a stealth class.

Just sayin.

Anyway gg PW thieves…

Again, spamming abilities, while not indicative of a good player, is only useful against other bad players. Good thieves vary it up a bit, and good players can easily shut down ability spammers. Pistol-whip doesn’t need any sort of nerf, people just need to learn how it works and how to counter it, and then the skill is worthless. The only time pistol whip is even close to OP is when combined with haste. And that’s not something that needs a pistol whip nerf, it’s something that may need a game-wide nerf to the quickness effect. To begin with, it should be made into a boon rather than an unremovable buff. Second, it could stand to be 66% faster instead of 100% faster. This is for ALL quickness, mind you, not just Haste.

Shizzlenit.7648:

Redscope.6215:

The problem is Quickness.

The buff needs to be removed…from ALL classes.

End of story.

it really is not quickness.

3,4k attack + 99% crit damage + 12 stacks of might sounds about right…

what are these random numbers you’re spouting supposed to be?

The stealth stacking was just a symptom of a larger problem, but they decided to band-aid the symptom instead of attacking the issue, which is that you can take several sets of fall damage from a single fall in the first place.

I never noticed. Why did you have to bring this to my attention? Now I’m going to hear it every time… At least I don’t run dual pistols very often…

I’m quite happy with dual axe so far on my warrior. Got a two-hit fury, a nice short vulnerability spin, a long damaging spin, a small leap burst with big damage, a ranged cripple… What’s not to love? It’s a really good weaponset for combining with combo fields.

Arcalas.9368:

no they just need to get rid of the downstate in spvp

I’m okay with this. Thief’s downed-state is kind of useless anyway unless you’ve got allies fighting to get you up. Such weak weak damage and two slots taken up to do less than the mesmer can do in one…

I remember how in GW1 if you beat a campaign you could get a weapon that had perfect stats for a weapon and a unique skin, equivalent to a level 80 exotic with a skin you cant farm or buy. I guess those days are gone. I kill Zhaitan, elder dragon, and get 78+ blues and greens.

Yeah I really liked that in GW1. I could go for a “Tooth of Zhaitan” dagger upon completion…

You can get a few pieces of good gear in a variety of specs (or other things worth about the same that you can trade away) by getting map completes in Orr.

I agree. It’s a problem with a lot of the thief’s abilities that other classes’ abilities automatically keep them faced towards the target. kind of defeats the purpose of shadowstepping in a lot of situations.

Sounds pretty good. I think it’s hilarious that Whargoul received hate messages for it. Yet more evidence that the hatred of thieves is a blind rage just because they were outplayed. This is a very busy build and sacrifices harder-hitting finishers for some damage avoidance and utility, should be good.

Cribbage.2056:

I’m a thief. Play it as my main at 80.

Pistol Whip is overpowered. Its damage is too high.

There is plenty of evidence for it, as you can see by playing it or watching videos.

By playing it I can see it’s not all that high. If I use every single utility slot and trait towards making it hit stronger, sure, it can be pretty devastating. But at that point I’m left with no other utility and I die faster than my targets if my cooldowns aren’t available.

Also, circumstantially it is obvious from the number of people using it as a build – that’s almost always a sign of something being OP.

Every single necromancer I’ve run into had several minions. Does that mean minion builds are extremely OP?

People need to wise up:

I completely agree!

1) Don’t defend and OP skill, even if it belongs to your class. Imbalance ruins fun and eventually leads to game populations dwindling.

Then don’t call something OP when you don’t know what you’re talking about, and we’ll all get along nicely.

2) Don’t try to justify the validity of skills by retro-theorycrafting specific fights. Spreading out DOES NOT counter PW. It might limit it to mowing down just one person, if you’re lucky. If that’s your only defence, you’re pretty much admitting it is OP.

Spreading out does counter its usefulness. Moving out of the way counters its usefulness. It’s an AoE, this is true of ALL AoEs. Anything which interrupts the thief counters its usefulness. The builds using pistol whip effectively rely on combining several 60+second cooldowns to really get the most out of it. Stop their one attack, and they’re practically useless by the second one. It’s a very front-loaded build.

3) Stop saying kitten every other sentence. In a few months when the cool kids have moved on to another fotm phrase, you’ll look back and feel stupid.

“kitten” is the word that the forum automatically substitutes in whenever it detects vulgar words.

It is in everyone’s interest to have a balanced game. Sure, your ganking and face-rolling will not be as common, but you’ll be surprised how much fun a truly challenging fight can be.

If challenging fights are so much fun, why are people complaining about not being able to face-roll against a thief? It is the people who cry “nerf” as soon as they find something that they can’t beat with their existing strategy (or lack of it) that need the lecture on balancing.

Can this thread be stickied please? So many people need to realize this.

I don’t have a necro, so I’m not sure what kind of problems they face. But I do also have an engineer, and it certainly doesn’t feel any weaker than my thief, just different.

I dunno, the hard-enforced weapon skill chaining kind of turned me off of long-term assassin play. The only thing I really enjoyed about assassin was it’s synergy with secondary professions, but sadly that is not a concern in GW2.

Ravnodaus.5130:

Guys, the Op is completely valid in his complaint. ANET really needs to nerf the thief hardcore, and then buff the Op’s proff… Thief. That’ll fix everything.

This sounds totally legit to me. NERF THIEVES! BUFF THIEVES!

Why? Well shadow step is good. Infiltrator arrow is the best teleport in the game,

In your opinion, perhaps. It takes a pretty hefty initiative cost so you’re not going to get much use out of it in battle. Mesmer portals are infinitely more useful in my opinion, they can get an entire zerg behind enemy lines. Also shadowsteps can’t go across gaps, while portals and leaps and surges can.

and that signet is pretty handy.

It’s okay. Like I said, it loses most of its effectiveness in combat. It’s more useful for map completes than anything else. There are a lot of good utility skills we could be using in its place that would be much better in combat.

All of this on the best utility in the game (stealth stomps and rezes).

It’s really not the best utility in the game, and it’s really easy to counter with an AoE. It’s not even the best rezzing utility. You know some classes have skills that can rez people without even having to be right on top of them? Those are pretty cool.

Punishing you for getting more of a stat is never a good idea, neither is rewarding you for getting less of a stat. Minmax less and take the skill for what it is. it’s quite powerful, even without condition damage gear. just combine it with some initiative regenerating traits and signet of malice.

PsionicDingo.2065:

How about we just take Initiative off and put it on the generic cooldown system.

Then we can sit back and watch as people who aren’t playing well still get stomped, and people who learn the system and find a new way to excel still do the stomping.

I’m for it.

First it was Hundred Blades and Bull’s Rush and even Endure Pain. This was before the game was even live. Then Heartseeker, and soon after Pistol Whip. Also Stealth in general. I can’t wait to see what the next target is. I’ve seen a lot of Guardian kvetching, but I want it to be Rangers so we can see all the Ranged is OP arguments within the context of GW2’s design and mechanics.

Those will be good.

Next target has already started. Dagger Storm. Just because someone put out an entertaining video of them in full exotic gear in an organized group pubstomping a giant zerg with this ability.

I think the best way to balance them is to actually make thiefs start with 0 initiative in a fight and build it up through using their #1 abilities and then use initiative to get a kill.

That is, quite easily, without question, indubitably, the single dumbest idea I’ve heard yet. It’s so incredibly bad, I’m almost at a loss for words on a rebuttal. You’re essentially asking for thieves to stand there just autoattacking while every other class is blowing through their cooldowns, even though thief is supposed to be the class that jumps into a fight, unloads, then retreats. Just… no. I need an aspirin now.

AoE knockbacks and interrupts and things of that nature will work just fine to stop stealth-stomps and stealth-rezzes. And heavy AoE damage in the area will make the thief waste their very limited stealth while dodging it. There’s nothing really to fix here.

Also, nerf to passive speed? What? Thieves have the same passive speed as everyone else. We have a nice speed boost signet, but it loses almost all of its effectiveness when you’re in combat. Which, by the way, if the thief has to stealth and run away from something, they often get stuck in combat for a good while.

That’s actually a pretty decent idea. Sword could use a good block.

neoxide.7320:

Half of this thread is composed of thieves telling the OP to get more skill because he can’t survive their ironically unskilled “win button” spamming.

no, half of this thread is thieves explaining why the OP’s story is complete nonsense.

Duelist gear drops quite a bit in Orr, especially for map complete achievements. You can get a full set on the TP for a few gold.

I like the shadowstep idea. Not sure about the bonus damage. Maybe apply a random condition for each remaining boon?

What’s that first set called Crovax? That would go great with a steam pistol in each hand.

Mrbig:

The sad part is that in PvP there’s no reason to use FS instead of C&D: easier to get, faster animation( it actually HITS, i would like FS to do the same), tactical advantage ( stealth), more utility ( FS removes a boon, JEZUZ ITS AWSUM -.-’’) and about the same damage.

Flanking Strike also evades. The main problem with it is just that the positioning is broken. It seems like it worked much better in beta, but right now it seems to just fling you a random distance away from the front or side of the target, often not even in melee range, when it’s supposed to put you right behind them.

Kind of boring, but that’s my opinion of course. The main-hand pistol and the dual skill just seem too 1 dimensional… Not nearly as busy or flashy as a dagger or sword. D/P, though? I love that. Black-powder is a dream for melee thieves.

Cyric.7485:

Lorithias.2873:

Sure u can justify it’s ok if u deal that much damage cause the other op burst class do nearly same, nice try.

I swear, every rogue/assassin/thief class featured in any MMO has a wonderful following of tear stained cheeks relentlessly QQing in our wake.

We’re thieves, borderline ninjas, murderous assassins, etc etc. Everyone wants to cry and moan about how OP we are because we can “assassinate” other players. Tell me what exactly would the thief bring to the table without damage? We don’t have a whole lot of support abilities, especially if we’re not traited properly. If you take a look at our weapon skills, utility skills, and traits, you’ll notice as a thief our entire existence revolves around chewing on faces.

We have plenty of support. But it, just like our damage, is designed to prey on players who are weakened or not paying attention. That’s our niche, and we do it well. If you’re at full strength and are paying attention to your surroundings, you’ll be able to either kill the thief or make him retreat.

Stealth classes are plenty fun. People just need to realize that it’s one of those things that is strong against bad players but as you learn more about the game it becomes just another skill.

Any damage already coming our way still hits, regardless of stealth. Any AoE ability hits, regardless of stealth. Making these break stealth would completely destroy any chance at having a viable stealth build.

Now, one thing that might be interesting, is to have a shadowy, blurry outline or aura appear if you hit someone that is stealthed. This way you could see something is there and attack that area or get out of the way, but the thief would still be in stealth. This idea comes from the Spy in TF2.

Science.4207:

Crisu, why would we do that when map chat in every zone in this game is just as bad as barrens chat?

Not every zone. Most zones are quite quiet. One or two zones can get pretty bad, though. Primarily Queensdale, where the other night some guys were arguing about how wrong it was that they can’t marry a 5 year old, and Lornar’s Pass. But I think these are mostly people that came here from WoW and will be leaving in a few days anyway, even though they’ll be back a few weeks later when they’re out of interesting stuff to do in mop.

I’ve never done Arah explorable yet but I could link this shard thing with just a little bit of internet research. Not a very good metric…

Well, look at WoW’s community. Then realize that much of WoW’s fanbase came to GW2, at least temporarily. So what do we get? The same trolls, jerks, and nerf herders that made WoW’s official forums such a great place to be.

If what you’re looking for is blind bandwagon support from other people who don’t understand the thief class, then yes, you posted in the wrong forum.

That’s in TOURNAMENTS? Bloody hell… most of them were just standing there, not trying to counter, not even trying to do a little bit of damage! That makes me sad. I was trying to get better before going into tournaments but apparently that isn’t needed XD

Stealth: Needs a timer on its diminishing returns effect.

What diminishing returns effect? Or do you mean the effect that prevents you from restealthing for 3 seconds? If so, it’s got a timer, it puts a debuff on you called “revealed”. If you use your next stealth ability right as the “revealed” icon starts flashing really fast, you should be pretty efficient with restealthing.

Wadeybear.4821:

http://www.gw2db.com/recipes/11313-berserkers-destroyer-sword

Kinda pricey, but the design makes it so worth it.

Ah a Destroyer weapon. Yeah that would explain it!

Trikittenistos.3046:

the stun (1s) stuns one of the ppl in front of you,
and while the slashes are channeled (3s) the thief is rooted in place and direction.
u obviously didnt play very well.

Again, HALF second stun.

Just do whoosh sounds with your mouth. Asura have awesome animations

Wadeybear.4821:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIoYbvcHCTg

Just a fun clip I got the other night.

What sword is that? Looks pretty ridiculous XD

Knyx.5926:

Daecollo.9578:

I’d rather make the damage on abilities less and give you more intitative to use more then just the damage ability, which encourages faster gameplay, not slower.

encouraging slower gameplay would require a complete redesign of the thief class from the ground up.

A complete redesign of the whole pvp scene, to be honest. This isn’t World of ResilienceCraft. There are no pocket healers. Battles are usually quick, dirty, and brutal, even without a thief. And I don’t know about you, but I much prefer it this way. PvP in WoW was incredibly boring when you’re slinging kittens at them for ages and they don’t go down. In the current GW2 pvp you have to have quick reactions of an action game while at the same time playing out an extremely accelerated chess game in your head. It’s grand.

It makes perfect sense. The idea is to beat the clock for better damage or a better control ability. The better you play, the better the skill is.

And no, it’s not needed in PvE or WvW. The only thing needed in PvE and WvW is to tone down or remove friendly attack visual effects so you can actually see which direction the mob is facing.

Turn around. Backstab just did half its normal damage. You’re welcome.

And 1.5k toughness isn’t really massive amounts… I have almost that much without stacking for it at all.

- Flanking strike now performs an evade and Shadowsteps behind the target.

This is the only thing you said that I agree with. Some of the others I have no opinion on. But removing positional bonuses from abilities would be a very bad move.

Ashanor.5319:

KaiserCX.7103:

Ashanor.5319:

Personally, I think you need to rely less on Blinding Powder – Heartseeker (Considering the cost is 9 initiative) to get into stealth if you use a D/P build and focus more of your utility around stealth. I mean, sure, if you got a BP up anyway feel free to use it, but don’t use it in every time you want to enter stealth. It is just too expensive.

I’d rather dump my initiative into it at the beginning then use utility to stealth a second time while initiative regenerates.

I guess, but if you aren’t speced for the extra 3 initiative, you just burned 75% of your initiative just to do a small amount of damage and get into stealth.

Ideally you’d be traited into regaining initiative on critical and regaining initiative in stealth. These are great for backstab builds.

Ashanor.5319:

Personally, I think you need to rely less on Blinding Powder – Heartseeker (Considering the cost is 9 initiative) to get into stealth if you use a D/P build and focus more of your utility around stealth. I mean, sure, if you got a BP up anyway feel free to use it, but don’t use it in every time you want to enter stealth. It is just too expensive.

True I suppose, but you should be using blinding powder liberally anyway. It’s easily the #1 survivability skill for thieves.

KaiserCX.7103:

Not only this, but if there are other combo fields out there, the leap will often combo with one of those instead of your blackpowder which is also annoying.

Yeah, that’s definitely a problem. I quite often get Chaos Armor instead of Stealth when there are friendly mesmers nearby.

I’ve been using Strength in spvp. 30% chance on crit to gain might, doesn’t seem to have an internal cooldown at all. With a 50% crit chance and fast dagger attack speed, you can have several stacks of might permanently.

Mandra Madador.1709:

Does it blind on stealth btw? or was that a trait?
I know i blind when I stealth i think.

and also

I base my comment off of most players that just spam and don’t pace them selves. I mean once the spam has started you can use say, Withdraw and watch them doing everything to air.

That’s a trait.

If you just spam abilities blindly, it doesn’t matter what build you use, you’re going to be decent against terrible players and terrible against decent players.

Mandra Madador.1709:

bwillb.2165:

Dagger/Pistol uses a ton of initiative, so make sure you take all of the initiative returns you can.Your big damage is done similarly to dual dagger, but instead of cloak and dagger -> backstab -> heartseeker finisher, it’s blackpowder -> heartseeker -> backstab -> heartseeker again because the first one didn’t do any more damage than autoattack

And in the mids of all that, you have to hope they don’t roll away hehehe!

Not too big of a problem. If you use heartseeker from inside the smoke cloud towards someone outside of the smoke cloud it will still stealth you.
The biggest problem with this build is teammates. If someone uses a combo blast ability right after you drop blackpowder, it will stealth you, which will then break when your heartseeker hits and give you the “revealed” debuff, completely negating your ability to backstab for 3 seconds.