Ill admit, the art for the revenant is kitten.
Sadly, i think all of this news is too late for me. I’ll follow the incoming informations as Anet releases it about the expansions and what that means for the future of the game, but I think Ive sort of moved on
Wish this happened a year ago.
If an expansion means the end to living story…(for good..it wont come back)… I will return to Guild Wars 2.
Right now, Im too far gone. As long as living story is in the game, I will not be Sad reality for me because this game had such potential for me.
Im still at a loss why GW2 needs raids. As Colin J. once put it: Gw2 is about completing events in open world with large amounts of people. Why are we going to suddenly segregate some playerbase by creating instanced content for 10-20 people, that will require voice comms(i.e. 9/10 times it will be a guild and not a pug). Seems that the very essence of raids, whatever the combat style and mechanics are, go against what GW2 was meant to be.
Are raids definitely coming?
edit: I understand we have instanced content with fractals and dungeons. I dont think theres an MMO out there currently that doesn’t have traditional 5-man dungeons, or something of the sort. But not every game has endgame max-level raid content. I thought GW2 fell into this category.
(edited by cesmode.4257)
(edited by cesmode.4257)
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but curious what people think about environmental objects being used in raids(or any content for that matter..but specifically raids). For example you see a “rock” or a “piece of scrap metal”. When you run around the world you see these objects you can interact with..pick up a piece of rusty metal and swing it at something for …pitiful damage *. Always wondered why these were in the game if they were so weak.
In any case, what about using this feature in a raid. We see something similar in a Fractal where we need to pick up boulders or something to break a shield. Something similar and even expand upon it for a raid.
Thoughts?
Quick note before I run out, but will try to get caught up with things later tonight.
Thanks to everyone who posted their notes on the questions I asked about Timmy’s proposal about Legendary Armor. Most of you guys are already touching base on what we would most likely do if we introduced legendary armor, but I wanted to push the brainstorming aspect of this CDI. It’s great to see everyone is more or less on the same page about this.
Edit: I understand that this post by me is a sidetrack of the current CDI, apologies. Just wanted to respond
I tried to find the post about legendary armor.
Just my quick opinion on it: I wouldn’t want it. Unless legendary armor AND weapons become a bit easier to acquire and a lot less random, no. Just no. Currently to acquire even ascended gear, I need to invest a lot of time into things that I necessarily might not want to do. I’d love to acquire a legendary weapon and after 1500 hours into the game before I took a break, not one precursor. Yet, people run around with multiple complete legendaries.
So again, unless the entire legendary acquisition system is reworked, I don’t want this. Its just another piece of content that I won’t ever accomplish regardless of the hours put in. Not to mention, and no offense, but if Arenanet cannot implement a precursor scavenger hunt or crafting system 2.5 years after launch, I highly doubt you should be looking or even thinking about implementing a legendary armor system. We were told that the precursor <insert acquisition here> would be here by early 2014. Here we are approaching 2015 and no whisper of it. Its an afterthought.
Please focus on making the current game better, and I would love it to not see legendary armor because of the probable RNG wall that I will never be able to climb.
That is, ofcourse, you remove RNG from it and allow us to craft pre cursors via solo-attainable methods (i.e. not requiring some 50 man group or something).
Just my two cents
Pertaining to raids: If something like this were to be in the game, I hope it isn’t locked behind a raid.
(edited by cesmode.4257)
Sure thing, Chris. I feel like the discussion of rewards progression in particular could use some guidance. I had suggested earlier a system by which players could earn Legendary Raid Armor through a progression system. I was expecting a lot of strong reactions, but I mostly heard silence.
Curious as to what others think. Personally, I think raids need unique (read: can only be earned in raids) reward skins that are earned either through RNG or a progression system. (Meaning: you can get them as a drop if you’re lucky, but you get a fixed-effort backup option as well.)
Edit: here was that post. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/4529755
Crystal is taking point on progression and I am taking point on foundational design.
I am sure she will see your post soon.
Her discussion area is doing better than mine (-: so yes maybe it is time to focus in on some of the ideas in that area.
Chris
P.S: Note the Seahawks game is on soon and I will afk!!
The discussion on foundational design is a bit more wordy. If I am correct, youre asking us to think of encounter ideas and mechanicsfor you, which becomes a lengthy post for us and I kind of thought you wanted us to be a bit more concise. Not many people want to type out 5000 word posts For this reason, I made a post earlier on some encounters in other games that were pretty nifty.
I think GW2 has all of the tools in place to make a mechanic-rich raid.
Combo fields are something that are woefully under utilized. Things like raid-wide debuffs that are dispellable via combo fields are at the core of your combat. In traditional games, you would have healers casting ‘purge’ or some other debuff removing skill on individuals. In GW2, have a Guardian, or some other appropriate class, drop a combo field..call it out on teamspeak and have players blow it up (metaphorically) to remove conditions. Currently, out of all of the combat, world bosses and dungeons in the game…nothing requires this. Nothing that I can think of off of the top of my head. But this is where you need to focus your efforts.
Dodging can also play a critical role for avoiding damage. I can’t remember the boon name , but whatever class can cast a field that increases dodge-energy regen rate or whatever. (I really cannot think today ).
The DPS and mechanics around DPS are kind of straight forward and you can do some interesting things, but I think this game has enough content that is based around burning mobs down. I really think you need to focus your efforts more on the support roles.
I can’t be sure, but are there not any “taunting” abilities for classes like warrior or guardian? “tanking” or other protective measures for your group will be difficult to discuss because there is no true tanking in the game. You can have a class build around taking a few extra punches but in the traditional sense, you’re not going to have one person taking all the hits like a normal tank. Again, for this reason, I would first focus on bringing the support roles/builds/playstyles to the forefront and finally letting those staff guardians, staff elementalists, etc..shine.
Yes? No? Maybe so?
Hey,
Just wanted to toss out a few boss fights from other games and a brief summary of their key mechanics for ideas: (some of these are my favs and most of them I haven’t done in years so..if memory serves…)
WoW:
Valithria Dreamwalker: Healers “fly” in a dream and catch powerboost bubbles. Once they exit the dream they have boosted healing to heal up a subdued dragon. Tanks and DPS fight off mobs entering the room from either side. Fight is compelted once dreamwalker is healed up completely(shes a good guy/gal).
Ragnaros(cataclysm): This fight.. My guild was horrible, but the fight itself was very mechanical. Striped bad floor that would be random. 5-7(I think) mobs that would spawn and need to be dps’d down asap. Stacking for heals. Spreading out on either side and bouncing comets across the room via DPS while DPS’ing the boss as well. This part was exceptionally cool.
Alysrazor: Tanks and DPS take care of adds below while one or two people “fly” around dps’ing the boss. To stay flying they need to capture flight boosts. At certain points, everyone is grounded and fire tornados spawn in random locations and travel at random speeds and directions. Rinse/Repeat until boss lands and its a dps race if I remember.
Sindragosa : Im not going to explain it because Im trying to forget the dozens of hours spent on this one. Look it up. Frustratingly beautiful.
Gruul: Simple tank and spank. Need to kill him quickly otherwise he continues to grow in strength and size. Avoidable environmental damage, etc. Simple tank and spank with a few twists.
Chess Event(karazhan): Non-combative(in the sense that you don’t use your abilities) but you play chess pieces and fight other chess pieces. Very creative.
Wildstar:
Experiment X-89: Fun fight. If you are targeted and do not move away from the group to the smallest area of the floor you can explode the entire floor your raid is standing on and wipe everyone.
Hi, I mentioned this in my first post a few moments ago. I could be out of date as well as this mind set that we were given early on…but isn’t the entire game ‘endgame’ ? Hop in, do whatever you want to do. No pressure, nada. Take your time, the whole thing is your oyster. When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless. A meaningless time sink. I didnt need 80 levels to learn my class. Maybe less than two dozen and I had it down. The rest was just enjoyment because the 1-80 content was nice. I leveled through it without any pressure. Put max level content in the game, and we will feel rushed to get to the real stuff. Its human nature.
For this reason, I do not think raids belong in GW2. But if they are to be implemented, I do have suggestions which I have shared
I bolded a section of this that I wanted to inquire about. Do you think the fact the game has been live for over 2 years now change your thoughts on this? This is definitely a common occurrence with new MMO’s that launch with raiding, but what about a game that didn’t launch with raiding? Is there still an issue of players “rushing to 80” when a large percentage of the player base already has at least one 80? Thoughts?
I definitely thought about this as I wrote that. Honestly, Im not sure. Logic says that most of your playerbase is max level already, so who cares right? However, what about people that like to casually level up alts. Will they feel rushed to get that character to max level so they can raid with it? What about the new players that you guys are trying to attract (since there seems to be a focus lately around the new player experience). Do I think it will be as bad as a new game or an expansion of an existing game? No but I do think the problem will still exist.
Question to you: Does GW2 plan to stay at level 80 forever? Because this definitely will be a more interesting conversation if you start throwing in raids and then increase the level cap with some large patch in 6months-year or something. At that point, yes the level rush is on!
(edited by cesmode.4257)
So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?
I’d want to see Raids as end game content. Others are right in stating that other games have raids as end game content – it’s what they are normally categorised as. However I’m not sure I follow the logic where that therefore means they shouldn’t be end game content in GW2. It’s not like end game raids make a game worse or less appealing and I don’t want to be forced to go play a different game to play the type of content I like. It’s important to avoid getting hung up on whether GW2 should or shouldn’t be taking cues from other games and to focus on making raids they best they can be, regardless of where the ideas come from.
I’d like to see raids as end game content as challenging PVE content is something that is currently missing from the game and raids could the thing that fills the hole. It’s not as if end game raids make all other content redundant. In fact if they weren’t end game you could argue they could be so similar to other content such as dungeons or world bosses depending on their final form that they would start making other content redundant.
I suppose ultimately people want raids to be accessible. However if they are too easy they make the game as a whole less accessible. Those who want easier content, who already have a very diverse selection to choose from will get more, which is great for them. But those who want the challenging endgame PVE content that is currently lacking would be left out. In that sense by making raids more accessible, GW2 could potentially miss an opportunity to appeal to a wider audience.
Personally I would also want to see raids as end game content and by that I mean level 80 only.
Chris
Hi, I mentioned this in my first post a few moments ago. I could be out of date as well as this mind set that we were given early on…but isn’t the entire game ‘endgame’ ? Hop in, do whatever you want to do. No pressure, nada. Take your time, the whole thing is your oyster. When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless. A meaningless time sink. I didnt need 80 levels to learn my class. Maybe less than two dozen and I had it down. The rest was just enjoyment because the 1-80 content was nice. I leveled through it without any pressure. Put max level content in the game, and we will feel rushed to get to the real stuff. Its human nature.
For this reason, I do not think raids belong in GW2. But if they are to be implemented, I do have suggestions which I have shared
Yep this is an astute point. Let’s not worry about levels in this discussion then. However we should focus on the foundation of this content being challenging, requiring skill and strategic co-operation whilst being build around the core combat, movement and accessibility of GW2.
Chris
cesmode makes a most valid point. Something I worry about a lot with introducing raiding in Gw2 is that a lot of stuff that were previously optional now stop being optional. Dont want to go after a full set of ascended gear.. no problem, there is no content tuned to the point of requiring ascended gear. Exotic is all you need. Yet with raiding this will become a problem. If the raid itself is tuned for exotics rather then ascended then it will not provide the full challenge for raid teams in full ascended etc..
What if raiding worked a bit like sPvP and you are lvl80 with a set stats. I think that would address both cesmode and my concerns.
Sorry for focusing on levels right in the post you said not too.. Its just I feel this is a big issue worth pointing out.
Let this be a day that you and I see eye to eye Galen Grey.
I agree, maybe some sort of new gear that has different stats specifically for raiding. This gear would be much less useful in the open world but be very beneficial in a raid environment. Honestly, Im not a fan of this idea as it is a new set of gear to grind out(and GW2 is known for its immense grind), but it sort of solves the problem of “what stats do we need for raids”.
So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?
I’d want to see Raids as end game content. Others are right in stating that other games have raids as end game content – it’s what they are normally categorised as. However I’m not sure I follow the logic where that therefore means they shouldn’t be end game content in GW2. It’s not like end game raids make a game worse or less appealing and I don’t want to be forced to go play a different game to play the type of content I like. It’s important to avoid getting hung up on whether GW2 should or shouldn’t be taking cues from other games and to focus on making raids they best they can be, regardless of where the ideas come from.
I’d like to see raids as end game content as challenging PVE content is something that is currently missing from the game and raids could the thing that fills the hole. It’s not as if end game raids make all other content redundant. In fact if they weren’t end game you could argue they could be so similar to other content such as dungeons or world bosses depending on their final form that they would start making other content redundant.
I suppose ultimately people want raids to be accessible. However if they are too easy they make the game as a whole less accessible. Those who want easier content, who already have a very diverse selection to choose from will get more, which is great for them. But those who want the challenging endgame PVE content that is currently lacking would be left out. In that sense by making raids more accessible, GW2 could potentially miss an opportunity to appeal to a wider audience.
Personally I would also want to see raids as end game content and by that I mean level 80 only.
Chris
Hi, I mentioned this in my first post a few moments ago. I could be out of date as well as this mind set that we were given early on…but isn’t the entire game ‘endgame’ ? Hop in, do whatever you want to do. No pressure, nada. Take your time, the whole thing is your oyster. When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless. A meaningless time sink. I didnt need 80 levels to learn my class. Maybe less than two dozen and I had it down. The rest was just enjoyment because the 1-80 content was nice. I leveled through it without any pressure. Put max level content in the game, and we will feel rushed to get to the real stuff. Its human nature.
For this reason, I do not think raids belong in GW2. But if they are to be implemented, I do have suggestions which I have shared
People won’t rush to level 80 to do end game content. GW2 is known for it’s really solid and fun leveling experience therefore most people will still take their time and they won’t rush it. Also if people were to rush to level 80 it would be a very small amount of people. Therefore we don’t really need to worry about that small minority that wants to rush to level 80. People will rush to whatever level they want regardless of content.
I disagree. In any game that has a traditional end game, the players eat up the leveling content in a blink of an eye. Developers claim they didn’t plan for the speed at which we burn through it and thus are unprepared for the masses. Yes, people will burn through the leveling.
While I think the 1-80 content is the game’s strongpoint as well, I definitely hear people saying that the leveling in GW2 is boring and the DE system is a mask for a traditional quest system. The people that clamored for some sort of vertical progression will be the same people that rush to 80.
I think GW2 should focus on making the entire game end game as marketed, give us incentive to be out in the game in any zone we want. Even though I have provided my suggestions for how raiding should be handled in GW2, I am still not convinced it belongs in the game.
So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?
I’d want to see Raids as end game content. Others are right in stating that other games have raids as end game content – it’s what they are normally categorised as. However I’m not sure I follow the logic where that therefore means they shouldn’t be end game content in GW2. It’s not like end game raids make a game worse or less appealing and I don’t want to be forced to go play a different game to play the type of content I like. It’s important to avoid getting hung up on whether GW2 should or shouldn’t be taking cues from other games and to focus on making raids they best they can be, regardless of where the ideas come from.
I’d like to see raids as end game content as challenging PVE content is something that is currently missing from the game and raids could the thing that fills the hole. It’s not as if end game raids make all other content redundant. In fact if they weren’t end game you could argue they could be so similar to other content such as dungeons or world bosses depending on their final form that they would start making other content redundant.
I suppose ultimately people want raids to be accessible. However if they are too easy they make the game as a whole less accessible. Those who want easier content, who already have a very diverse selection to choose from will get more, which is great for them. But those who want the challenging endgame PVE content that is currently lacking would be left out. In that sense by making raids more accessible, GW2 could potentially miss an opportunity to appeal to a wider audience.
Personally I would also want to see raids as end game content and by that I mean level 80 only.
Chris
Hi, I mentioned this in my first post a few moments ago. I could be out of date as well as this mind set that we were given early on…but isn’t the entire game ‘endgame’ ? Hop in, do whatever you want to do. No pressure, nada. Take your time, the whole thing is your oyster. When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless. A meaningless time sink. I didnt need 80 levels to learn my class. Maybe less than two dozen and I had it down. The rest was just enjoyment because the 1-80 content was nice. I leveled through it without any pressure. Put max level content in the game, and we will feel rushed to get to the real stuff. Its human nature.
For this reason, I do not think raids belong in GW2. But if they are to be implemented, I do have suggestions which I have shared
Yep this is an astute point. Let’s not worry about levels in this discussion then. However we should focus on the foundation of this content being challenging, requiring skill and strategic co-operation whilst being build around the core combat, movement and accessibility of GW2.
Chris
In that case see my other two posts. Ive touched on those aspects.
So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?
I’d want to see Raids as end game content. Others are right in stating that other games have raids as end game content – it’s what they are normally categorised as. However I’m not sure I follow the logic where that therefore means they shouldn’t be end game content in GW2. It’s not like end game raids make a game worse or less appealing and I don’t want to be forced to go play a different game to play the type of content I like. It’s important to avoid getting hung up on whether GW2 should or shouldn’t be taking cues from other games and to focus on making raids they best they can be, regardless of where the ideas come from.
I’d like to see raids as end game content as challenging PVE content is something that is currently missing from the game and raids could the thing that fills the hole. It’s not as if end game raids make all other content redundant. In fact if they weren’t end game you could argue they could be so similar to other content such as dungeons or world bosses depending on their final form that they would start making other content redundant.
I suppose ultimately people want raids to be accessible. However if they are too easy they make the game as a whole less accessible. Those who want easier content, who already have a very diverse selection to choose from will get more, which is great for them. But those who want the challenging endgame PVE content that is currently lacking would be left out. In that sense by making raids more accessible, GW2 could potentially miss an opportunity to appeal to a wider audience.
Personally I would also want to see raids as end game content and by that I mean level 80 only.
Chris
Hi, I mentioned this in my first post a few moments ago. I could be out of date as well as this mind set that we were given early on…but isn’t the entire game ‘endgame’ ? Hop in, do whatever you want to do. No pressure, nada. Take your time, the whole thing is your oyster. When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless. A meaningless time sink. I didnt need 80 levels to learn my class. Maybe less than two dozen and I had it down. The rest was just enjoyment because the 1-80 content was nice. I leveled through it without any pressure. Put max level content in the game, and we will feel rushed to get to the real stuff. Its human nature.
For this reason, I do not think raids belong in GW2. But if they are to be implemented, I do have suggestions which I have shared