Guild Wars 2

Well that can be said for every class in comparison to elementalist. Based on that comparison, it seems a tad illogical for previous posters to claim engineers as particularly weak compared to ele’s, when the same is true on a relatively equal level to all classes, when you compare the to ele’s.

What do you mean by “skill shot based”?

Poke around, there is a massive amount of threads on this topic. Not to mention a big, red, bold, stickied thread on posted builds at the top of the page.

I think your use of the term “convoluted” is a bit misleading here, and I think I understand the point you are trying to make. I have to disagree with it though. So what if I have to hit 2 key strokes? or hit a key twice for a secondary function on a skill? Engineers use those skills all day for their general and original purpose of said skill. The only difference in using that skill in a fields, is to do the exact same thing we do all day to execute the skill, only we direct it through a field. That doesn’t actually make it more tedious. At least not in my opinion. I think it is your perception that makes it appear tedious.

Its value depends on your build concept. If you have a decent crit % but do not use flame thrower or pistol off hand it is very. If you are using weapons sets and skills that stack alot of burn, then I find next to know value in the trait.

I do not use it, because I use fire bomb for the combo field and tend to stack enough to last until fire bomb is up again, so the trait would very literally be wasted. In a decent crit chance gadget build or elixir build though, it is a very good trait.

We have 14+ combo field generators, 13+ blast finishers, 10+ projectile finishers, and at least one leap finisher. It may not be “amazing”, but it is pretty darn solid and reasonable. Just because we may not be the master of finishers, or the master of field generators, does not mean we are lacking.

In actuality, elementalist can create 10 combo fields to engineers 14. That hardly makes them masters if you ask me. They only have fire,ice, water and lightening fields. Engineers have fire, ice, light, poison, smoke, and water.

This is one of the common mis-conceptions ov various classes.

Warriors on the other hand, have 35 finishers to our 21, that is a solid difference.

14 fields and 21 finishers seems pretty solid to me, you must have some pretty high expectations to suggest that does not rank near a real of “good combo-er”

that is an extremely broad statements. In what way are they convoluted?

Yeah, there should be some forum rule about labeling completely inaccurate information as “fact”.

No one is arguing that engineer is the least played profession. What I question, is his broad statement that it is the least played because there are problems.

I say that because everything I read, indicates that it is because most dislike the concept and idea behind it, while play style also effects the discussion.

I fell that is horrible advice considering the mitigation toughness offers. In many situations like zerg clashes in WvW, you simply cannot avoid damage. I also find in various game modes, different build various work best, and those variations vary between play styles. As well, utilities that are most diversely helpful is a combo with stun breaker, condition removal, and stability. But situations vary.

Devinchi.2756:

I have no idea what you’re talking about either. Any skill that says projectile finisher without a 20% behind it is a guaranteed projectile finisher. We do have a lot of blast finishers, but our only access to half of them is if we bring a bunch of turrets with sole purpose of blowing them up for a couple stacks of might or a few seconds of stealth.

So even though Anet posted here on the forums that they made all projectile finishers 20%, your suggesting it is more likely that they went back on that without telling us, then it is that they didn’t update a few tool tips?

Or did they change some back and tell us and I missed it?

And because we have 13 blast finisher, I really have to wonder what logic you use to determine that means we do not have very many.

Right, it appeared to be over looked in a few of the post, so I was just laying it out here.

tigirius.9014:

Zef there is a reason why it’s the lowest played class. Because there are problems.

I would like to see a sliver of evidence to support your claim to know and understand why the general population plays engineers the least. Because the majority of what I read about it on the forums is because they do not like the concept of the idea. Point being, I believe you are making a unsupported assumption, and attempting to state it as fact.

in all fairness, I have no contradicting facts, but the vast majority of what is posted that I read, contradicts your blunt statement.

Tigger.8035:

Why? because if im using all lvl 10 masterwork gear and fight someone with exotics, I will get 1 shotted.

If your referring to being fully under geared then it is true. That is the particular players fault for for being under geared, and thus a bit irrelevant to the actual situation.

If your referring to being a level 10, in level 10 gear, it doesn’t scale that way, and you do not get one shotted unless you allow a very heavy hitting glass cannon to get the jump on you, and you have a low Hp/def build situation.

You have to remember also to keep in mind that duration on conditions only work when you get the duration to the next tick tier.

By that, I mean if you have a 2 second bleed, it will not add one more to the stack unless you have 50% bleed duration, because all of conditions work in 1s duration in one form or another.

In my opinion, avoiding damage is the best defense.

Engineers are very possibly the best endurance regenerating class’ in the game. With Toss elixir S, invigorating speed, elixir R, adrenalin implant, adrenalin pump.

Infused Precision+ Invigorating Speed+Adrenal Implant are a ridiculous combo that allow you to avoid incredible amounts of damage.

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Highest dps against an absolutely stationary target? maybe. Not really though, cause…you know…backstab thieves and all.

Exactly. Theoratically it might be the highest dps, but sadly enemies are moving…

You do realize engineers move too right? We can keep endurance up in ridiculous rates and have a ridiculous amount of dodges.

I am curious though, how do they dodge with a net shot on them? or after Glue shot? How do they dodge after throw shield stuns them? Were they countering with immobilize removal?

That covers all 3 weapons there. If your running around using nothing but grenades and staying in hat kit set all of the time, you are doing it wrong. There is a counter to everything in this game. You complain about moving and dodging players as if you sit there yourself and take what they dish out willingly. You are just as capable of dodging as they are. More so with Toss elixir S, invigorating speed, elixir R, adrenalin implant, adrenalin pump.

Infused Precision+ Invigorating Speed+Adrenal Implant are a ridiculous combo that allow you to avoid incredible amounts of damage.

If your trying to stand at max range in an open field in WvW, with grenade kit armed the whole time and not using any skills that support it, you will lose every time. At this point, it doesn’t read as if there is any issue with the grenades, but with the manner in which you are utilizing them.

Don’t worry about that finisher post, It is completely inaccurate. ALL of the projectile finishers are 20%. Not a single one is 100% as he implies.

We have a HUGE amount of blast finishers and a great deal of projectile finishers. I got no idea what that Devinchi guy is referring to.

This thread sounds like almost anyone I know who went to vegas expecting to come back rich.

Just because you assumes if you took enough chances and invested enough time and money that you would win, doesn’t make it so.

How many players do you think actually got what you were looking for? thank goodness most of them are not childish enough to make a thread complaining about not winning when they took a gamble.

Funny thing is, we have a good amount of suggestions being offered.

For example, we have 1500 range grenade kit, and folks ask for ranged options as if they do not exist.

Viable turrets.

We have them hundreds and thousands of engineers successfully us turrets and grenades every day.

The OP suggested “+ A condition melee kit (perhaps the Chainsaw Kit suggested by Karast?)” Yet we have bombs that are melee range with 3/5 bombs being conditions. Why are we demanding more skills that are redundant?

Turrets are not bad at all really. There are simply two problems with turrets. First problem is most people approach them with a closed mind and do not know how to think outside of that very small box to use them. Secondly, people who keep hearing they are bad, and them they tell other people they are bad, when they never even tried them. I have read post from people claiming they are bad and the reasons they gave were even fixed before release, clearly showing they hadn’t even tried them, for themselves. . It is like it is some lazy fad to hate on them. Do they need improvements, well yeah, a lot of engineer stuff needs improvements. They are great for combo fields, knock backs, they distract mobs and allow you to go aggro free when you want. They disable, immobilize, and do damage with very little attention needed from you. My favorite, is when “deplorable turrets” trait is functional properly on all turrets, you can place them out of reach of melee mobs, or in hard to reach locations that make them very useful at times.

I can agree, an update would not hurt. Honestly, I do not understand why they do not have someone go to the various stations around the office once a week and do a weekly state of the game address. Thats was one of the few things FFXIV did right.

Lyuben.2613:

wintermute.4096:

Dude, there are like 5 threads about it on the first page alone.

And arenanet have known about it since BWE1.

You’d think they might… address it?

Would certainly stop the number of threads.

Since they have addressed it, on some of the earlier threads that this one replicates, and a few other places, there really isn’t an issue, other then the fixes not being out yet.

Isslair.4908:

I dunno really. Was reading forums about all classes and EVERY single class has people who say that their class is so unfinished and underpowered, while others are OP. I don’t even know whom to believe now.
Personally, I feel engi is ok with his really cool versatility. Just needs the bugs fixed.

This.

Every sub-forum has threads claiming they are under powered. When I see it on warrior forums thought, it makes me laugh.

He is right. A fully defensive mace/shield warrior with 31,000 hp and 500-1000 more toughness will do equivalent or greater damage then just about any build we use that doesn’t have a grenade damage focus. Sad, but true.

I see a lot of comments made about condition damage that are not entirely accurate. Several post mentioning condition damage appear to fail to include the base direct damage of the attack as well. just throwing that out there.

I didn’t misinterpret anything. I quit literally took what you said at face value. There are separate keys for walking and running. They are separate actions completely.

Grenades are heavy hitting, very long range, and AoE. Heaven forbid a hand thrown object doesn’t move at the rate of a fire arm projectile.

Personally, I do not feel your complaint has any validity, but thats just me.

What does ele have to do with it? Warriors carrying their banners suffer in the same way.

They have replied with intended fixes they are working on to solve the issues, they just haven’t implemented any yet.

When over 50% of the post you make are claiming how something different is under powered it becomes hard to take anything you say seriously. If your listing every other class as under powered, then clearly thy are well balanced together.

Running with swiftness, and you will not get 3/4 of the way before they hit. So it is hard to take anything at all that you say seriously when you “claim” that “walking” gets you closer then running with swiftness does.

All I can say is

Guild Wars 2 Forum Code of Conduct

) Use a relevant thread title that clearly expresses the subject of the thread.

First and fore most, the obvious, they are dragons, why wouldn’t you want to go fight an epic dragon in an MMO. I scratch my had just trying to comprehend why this question needs to be asked.

Also they drop rares, exotics, and all other manners of gear.

Hmm, looks like my ex-wife.

It would be OP if it did work. Combining two 20% CD reduction traits plus all the other beneficial traits would make it ridiculously over powered.

I have to agree. Not referring to these skills specifically, but as a rule to all skills. Because this is such a reactionary game play system with call for regular adjustments and counters, that I feel any skill you key up before another is done, should interrupt it.

That is just my take on it though.

OP Did you check the stickied build discussion thread ? They discuss builds that fit your criteria their.

Yes. They work. Poke around (which you should have done before you made a new thread) there are a very large amount of recent threads on this particular subject. As well, their is a stickied thread discussing builds. You should find several builds discussing this.

Vulnerability is a condition.

Ronin.5038:

Ever fought one of those big fancy dragons or one of those popular event bosses? With 20+ people attacking one target, condition builds are shafted. Burn and poison only stacks in duration, not intensity, so while you may be seeing damage from your burn and poisons, the other people running condition builds would not.
Compare this with power builds that can just deal straight up damage with no drawbacks, and power builds are superior when in a group setting.

Condition builds are not shafted. Not as a whole or as you state it. The only condition build that suffer are the under geared condition builds or those running conditions without focusing on condition damage stats.

Now I agree that straight power or crit builds have less draw backs.

It is beyond me why the devs have any conditions damage stack in durations. They should all simply stack similar to bleeds with intensity. Then they can adjust accordingly from their.

The thing is, the OP didn’t ask if he fought one of those fancy dragons with 20+ people their, if condition damage can compete with direct damage? he asked it looking at straight numbers, which he clarified with an example, not in very specific instances.

Yeah, you can only hold 10 mail from players, after that it is considered full and it gives you no actual warning,

It is not rubbish, it is consistent with every other class and their GTAoEs as well.

If you truly feel that engineer having auto attacking GTAoE while all other classes do not is truly balanced and that it is “rubbish” otherwise is a bit of an elitist attitude. No one like when folks have an illogical expectation that their favorite class gets imbalanced favoritism.

You can make claims on “the short and tall of it all you like”. Everyone loves when posters disregard what Anet has said in their replies to subjects, pretends they never happened and then makes up their own reasons and tries to pass them off to the general public. Just because you are unhappy about their stance on it does not make it less true.

RaoZaoku.5289:

Just to let you know, that red marker doesn’t always work accordingly.
Tested it with a few skills.

Yeah but that is not truely relavent to the topic, because if this is a case it is an issue for bug discussion.

Otherwise, I agree with previous posters in that it promoted skilled game play. I truly hope they never change it, just because a few folks complain on the forums because they lack the skill to management, or feel it too lazy to want to, does not mean they should change it.

Tolmos.8395:

coglin.1496:

I feel it is bad policy to force changes to the rest of the world that plays this game for something that happens in a small area on the scale of things.

Lucky, then, that you aren’t in charge >_>

Yeah, it would tyrannical to have someone in charge who displayed consistency and followed a production and release schedule.

Bobudo.7943:

coglin.1496:

Bobudo.7943:

Zapato.4296:

Ctrl + left click/right clicking the skill doesn’t make it auto attack? I know bomb kit does it that way.

Tested: no it does not (didn’t know that about bomb kit though – that’s pretty cool)

Tested it last night and as of 5 minutes ago it was working. It is just like any other attack, once no opponents are in range, auto attack stops, just like with all weapons and kits. Trust me, that issue annoys the heck out of melee weapon users.

You misunderstand: I meant the grenade kit does not auto-attack; I am aware the bomb kit does.

No, you misunderstand. It does. You need to be under water.

Otherwise why would it. There is not a single ground target AoE in the game that will auto attack for good reason. Why should the engineer be special? If you could spam ground target AoE damage then a blind monkey can spew damage everywhere. That would be a horrible idea.

Anymras explained the general reasoning fairly well.

Super elixir. Because it removes conditions in an AoE, aand gives a nice combo field.

It is not complicated. So many folks are going out of their way to farm because they are crafting in mass to level the craft and the character.

Its not any overly complicated economic concept like your pretending to make it VendettaDFA. The shorted way from A to B is a straight line, and your talking in swirls, circles, and zig zags.

Bots auto farming and non-bot players farming for themselves and mass crafting flood the market. It always happens early in new MMOs. It doesn’t make a sliver of sense to compare WoWs server based economy after it is several years old to GW2 game based economy that is barely weeks old.

It is not a complicated situation grasp at all.

Best tip I can give is to ignore this thread. The first 2 posters particularly are unknowledgable and spreading mis information.

I admit that it bothers me that they want to favor offense over defense by a good deal.

I feel it is bad policy to force changes to the rest of the world that plays this game for something that happens in a small area on the scale of things.

AoE pistols, bombs, and grenades are all situational to different situations. I personally just feel that bomb with p/p or p/s work well together.

I agree that grenades are definitely not the only way for AoE. I almost never use them outside of WvW, and then I do not use them a lot. I like to use bombs. I feel they also work well for combo fields for my pistol shots.

Direct damage or condition damage, which ever you chose to focus on, work spectacular either way with precision.

No one can really help you to a very useful extent, until you toss in some details. Do you use P/P, P/S, or rifle with them?