Guild Wars 2

I have no idea how you can claim engineers are low survivability. We have more toughness with shield and traits then thieves (as well as Hp) and more defense then rangers. We can maintain vigor more then any class allowing us the ability to dodge more then any class.

I can only hope you are making reference to your specific build, because I would have to question how you assume our survivability is low otherwise.

I disagree. Read alot of the post here. People are not complaining because the want a better over all product. They complain because they have a sense of entitle ment and want the profession tailored to them specifically.

This is extremely apparent with all of the threads demanding a change t this kit, or that utility, or this trait or skill. Even when you post a reply pointing out how a specific they want changed is used by a great many, and how it is useful, they troll you and call it a garbage ability, even if the masses love it, simply because it does not fit their play style.

Feed back for a better product is one thing, but we have a forum just clutered with demands and unreasonable expectations.

Huh? Are you suggesting burning through initiative while spamming pistol whip and heart seeker is “patient” ?

LameFox.6349:

EDIT: you actually used ‘bursty’ in opposition to ‘patient killer’:

Again you show a massive issue in comprehension. At what point did I claim those two were contradictory meaning? Again you make weird and inaccurate assumption and attempt to tell me what I meant. I simply point out that I felt the term “patient” isn’t exactly a synonymous word to go with burst damage and fast kills. Just because I question his choice if adjectives you assume to tell me I meant something entirely different.

Especially when you have such difficulty grasping the meaning of the term “role”. Particularly in the context that it is used in MMOs.

LameFox.6349:

I’m not defending it, because it’s not happening.

Yes you are, and yes it is. I quoted very specifically where it did. You seem to be completely confused as to what role even means, and have attempted, repeatedly to convince us that concept and style mean the same thing as “role”. it is factual inaccurate.

Themes and styles have nothing to do with roles. You very specifically mention the role of burst damage. Burst damage is a “role” any class can fulfill, that is a fact. How they fullfil that role is there theme or style.

Here is some of your issue right here. Your inaccurately claim:

You’ve assumed that the ‘patience’ in his description refers to something that is contrary to burst damage.

Which is oddly incorrect. I never assumed anything even close to that. I specifically clarified this multiple times to you. You must have misread something in an earlier post and you continue to push “what you assumed I meant” at me as my opinion.
Thanks but no thanks, You appear to be confused as to how this works, but I will tell you my opinion, that is how it works. You will not sit here and put words in my mouth and tell me what I meant. Especially when I quote it in very specific words to you, and you still claim the exact opposite.

No, I very well understood that your claiming that he meant burst damage. I will tell you for the third time, that if you think engineers cannot fill a burst damage role, that you are not very knowledgeable of the class to say that. Secondly, I very specifically quoted where he stated that was for thieves and warriors.

Let me break it down for you

He said “patient killer” can only belong to Warrior / Thief

You very specifically claim he means “burst damage” by saying “patient killer”

There fore you are claiming he is claiming that only warrior/thief can fill the role of burst damage, and you keep arguing for his point.

I am telling you, if anyone thinks only those 2 classes can fill the role of burst damage, that they are extremely ignorant of all the other classes abilities.

No, I feel it is fairly consistent with all professions. As an engineer, I feel I want to invest into a stat, but a lot of times the traits in that line are a waste of time for the play style I am going for. They really should separate and differentiate the stats themselves from the traits, to allow us the diversity of having a trait line to go down that is separate from the stat increase.

What assumption? You must have made one yourself, because I have no idea how you jumped to that conclusion.

Secondly, You seem a little confused on some issues. For example, you appear to believe style is synonymous with role. that is not the case. The OP never mentioned style, and I never mentioned style. Your the only one who is doing this. Why does style have to do with the role in any way, shape, or form? Further more, what are you even talking about with this “designed for” stuff? A role is assigned or assumed position or pattern of action. I have no idea how you assumed to bring “style” into that.

As far as you weird and out of left field comment

What exactly are you expecting him to take away from you?

I will just ignore that all together, as it would appear to me that your asking this off the wall question based on the premise of some very strange and incorrect assumptions your making.
As far as your reference to the “entire point” the OP is trying to make, It is irrelevant. That was my entire point. My determination not to read it is my prerogative. I do not need your permission to have my opinion, thanks.
The Op very literally stated that specific roles belong to specific classes. That is not true in actual game play, it is not true in developer philosophy, and it is not true factually. Why you are so adamantly defending pigeon holing classes and pushing the idea that you have to play a certain class to do a certain job or fill a certain role in beyond me, as well it is beyond the ideology of the game itself.

Frenzy+grenades is good, until you realize you die in one hit every time.

No, umm, I think you have totally missed the point. You have yet to describe something I cannot do as well on the engineer. I am well aware of his point. I am just curious of how he and yourself for that matter can sit here and make claims that go against everyone in game experiences, and the game developer themselves, and try to falsly convince everyone they have restricting, pigeon holing roles, depending on the class.

If you like, I can link a nice burst damage grenade build in which folks set nice fast burst kills up with sneaky control and destroy players.

Yet you are attempting to argue that it is okay for the OP to “claim” we cannot do this because it is our role.

The point is, you cannot name a task that another profession can do, that we cannot thrive at as well. Yet your attempting to convince us that we should accept some claiming other wise.

His first paragraph is very specifically claiming we do not deserve that role because of some other class. Which is absolute hogwash.

Misrepresenting? Not likely my friend. You appear ot misunderstand the meaning of the word “role”
Sorry, but armor has nothing to do with some clown telling my I can only be a patient killer as a thief. Hard to take anyone seriously who calls the most bursty fast killing class in the game the “patent killer” Last time I checked, spamming pistol whip and heart seeker on the initiative system isn’t patient at all. Honestly, I cannot even fathom what anyone would be thinking to make that claim, unless they had never played the class and had no idea about how it worked.

It appears your simply confused about the terms you are arguing with. Using axes, or lightning bolts has nothing to do with your role. If your a Damage dealer, then your a damage dealer, that is your role, regardless of the fact that it is as a melee with axes or a caster. If your a crowd control specialist, or a group conditions cleanser, or built heal heavy, no one gives a rats behind how heavy your armor is.

Feel free to allow that heavy armor clown to stand there and attempt to take hits, while I out perform him on my lesser Hp/def because I have the good sense to dodge, and can do so a great many times more then him because I can dodge twice as much with the ability to keep vigor up. If you think a tanky, high Hp/def build taking a hit, trumps any other Hp/def level dodging, well, your just crazy.

Zandur.5012:

. But a lot of other threads in this subforum are engaged in polite and productive discussions that end up advocating realistic changes to existing abilities / kits that would improve our profession without creating game imbalances. Those kinds of threads really deserve a dev post that at least says, “Hey we’re super busy now, so I don’t have time to join this discussion but just wanted you guys to know I’m paying attention.”

That is just it, most of those threads you see are the 5,286th thread of the exact same topic. Anet posted on the first 5000 of them. Then folks come in and read the next 876 threads and do not see a post on them and want to falsely claim Anet is ignoring the subject. Every day I read post that state how nice it would be if Anet had a comment on a particular topic and see posters imply they are doing a bad job by not comment on a recent thread, after they had already commented on the topic itself several times.

There is not a topic on the first two pages of post that Anet hasn’t already posted about. Yet everyone is on those threads claiming the subjects are being ignored just because Anet did not post on that thread. Do a search for engineer hammer and see how many threads their are on the topic. Anet has commented on those exact topic before. They have commented and essentially every topic that you see folks stating they are ignoring.

You do a search and you will find post like this one on the threads from moderators and devs.

CC Charles.3675:

Hi Everyone,

Unfortunately we have seen a lot of of threads posted on this topic.

As already explained, we are not going keep you updated about this situation every hour, or answer personally to each questions you are asking..

XelNigma.6315:

I would suggest adding 10 in tools to get the trait that fires a bouncing electric bolt every time you use a toolbelt skill. (no cooldown) Its great for multi targets.

It works great with the rifle turret’s toolbelt skill seeing as it has such a short cooldown.

It depends really. It is an absolute waste in my opinion, if he is a condition heavy build. I would much rather have speedy kits for 100% swiftness, or kit refinement over a weak AoE in this case. There are so many useful traits in that last line though, it is really up to the players personal preference.

Seriously? Of all the broken skill, non-functioning traits, and abilities that are broken, this is what you guys want to attempt to push the devs to invest their time in?

So your just no figuring out what the rest of us shield advocates have been posting since beta. There are a great any threads of this type of discussion already out there.

Now I do not know about you guys, but I got stuck in the OP when I read this.

Haltus Kain.4578:

I keep seeing sniper rifle pop up, but the role of soldier or patient killer belongs to the Warrior / Thief respectively… the Engineer is more of a steampunk chemist than anything else,

I am sorry, but I simply have to stop reading and believe anything you have to suggest is going to be a ridiculously horrible idea when one of the first things you do is attempt to tell us what role we have to play with our professions.

The point of this game is that any class should be able to fulfill any role and that you can play your class the way you like. Then the OP comes on and “claims” other wise in his first paragraph.

For some useful feedback OP. If you do not want to turn people off and put the wrong foot forward, by contradicting the ideology of the game developer themselves, it might be useful to not do that. People such as my self read your first paragraph and no longer care what you have to say because it feels like some high and mighty elitists
is pigeon holing the classes and trying to start discussions about how we should play them.

Esrever.8613:

rifle doesn’t really scale much better with power. Grenades is about the only thing thats good for a power build.

Bombs

My point exactly. You never said it was anything other then
“another weapon for the Engineer”
And you called it, and I quote…““rocket-powered hammer.””
As we already have hammers in game, there is no way they will make another one weapons type such as you specifically named, for only one class. The only option that engineers would have to do so is a kit.

Unless you are simply referring to the engineers getting the “hammer” as a weapon. If that were they case, then you should have simply said so, as the special name you gave for it, caused me and 2 other posters to believe you referred to a kit.

If you are referring to the hammers alone, then I would have to ask why you felt you needed your own special thread for this subject? What was wrong with the other 300 discussions on this topic that we have going on, that you couldn’t post on one of those threads?

Zandur.5012:

I predict an Anet employee will show up and tell you two to behave. Sadly, poor forum behavior is the only way to get Anet employees post here, so we really have no idea if any of our input is having any impact at all. Can we get like at least one dev post a week that helps guide our discussions? I don’t think it’s too much to ask and would go a long way to make us feel we aren’t being ignored.

Honestly, they have posted in one of the first threads about engineers and hammers, as well as engineers and sword, maces, and other melee weapons also in several of the new kit idea threads……. We have 300 other engineers and “X” kit or “Y” weapon threads, Why do you assume if they do not reply to each and everyone of them, they they are ignoring the conversation as a whole.

If I worked at Anet and I replied to the first few threads on the same topic, and everyone keeps thinking they are so special that they should ake their own personal thread on it, untill we have 300 more threads on it, instead of participating in the already existing discussion, I would absolutely ignore there comments. But that is just me,

Vigilence.4902:

• Is this kit intended to be used primarily within melee, mid-range, or long distance?

Your absolutely right Haette.2701, no one else thought it was a kit right…….It only started in the second post.

Haette.2701:

coglin.1496:

What the heck are you talking about? All of the above are in game.

A “rocket-powered hammer.” on the other hand, does not exist. If the original post was referring to a list of skills for the hammer if they allowed engineers to use hammers, then you should say so. Not fly off the handle simply because your not saying what you mean, then get angry at the rest of us if we do not decifer your meaning accordingly.

I haven’t seen a single one of those weapons. I’ve seen engineers use pistols and shields, rangers throw axes, and mesmers pew pew greatswords, I’m pretty sure OP sees engineers using hammers.

Ain’t nobody else confused here.

All of that which you mention exist as abilities on weapons or kits in game. If you have not seen them, your not looking.

Haette.2701:

coglin.1496:

I do not understand why people lack basic comprehension skills, but unless you lost your mind, rocket hammers nor anything you mentioned do not exist in game.

Funny, I haven’t seen any flame pistols, electromagnet shields, throwing axes, or laser swords either, but people still use those from time to time.

What the heck are you talking about? All of the above are in game.

A “rocket-powered hammer.” on the other hand, does not exist. If the original post was referring to a list of skills for the hammer if they allowed engineers to use hammers, then you should say so. Not fly off the handle simply because your not saying what you mean, then get angry at the rest of us if we do not decipher your meaning accordingly.

If they are going to allow threads like this to be started, they should really permit us to have a “-1” option as well.

We have a bugged thread discussions stickied, and a mass plethora of them other then that. So why did you make yet another new thread?

Sunt.6835:

if i was a Game developer i surely would take feed back but not from horribad players

How do you define “horribad” players? By what metric do you personally, measure this?

Anyway the OP has a point. It is one thing to ask for broken issues and bugs to be fixed, but every Tom, kitten, and Harry with an inflated ego that thinks he is special makes there own thread demanding “X” and “Y” changes and overhauls to the class. These threads pop up daily. At that point it is not feedback at all, it is simply overzealous whining and demanding.

Assassinin.4963:

I would expect engineer class to excel in building things such as seige machine in WvW. Perhaps GW2 can buff engineer class to be able to carry more than 10 supplies? Or perhaps have a long cooldown spell that can build ANY seige machine in one cast, basically no limit on supplies carried (we still need blueprints though).

Come on, unless you are a financial engineer, engineer should be able to build things better than other class. Agreed?

They live up to their name sufficiently well. The problem is, they do not live up to your expectations. There is a grand difference.

Why would you expect an engineer to build anything? Much less excel at it? You appear to have some odd idea that engineer is synonymous with construction. That is not the case in the least.

So you ask the question “agreed?” and the answer is no. Welders, woodworkers, machinest, equipment operators, and others of the sort are the ones that build things. You simply have a misunderstanding of what the word means.

You mean other then the mobility comparison? How DoTs function is completely different between the two game? How you resist DoTs in EQII and you cannot here? The manner in which pets aggro in EQII versus GW2? The difference in these areas are night and day.

Perhaps we should drop the illogical comparison all together, it is apparent you are not familiar with EQII and its game mechanics at all, so I cannot even fathom whay you brought it up. I am not going to us GW2 forums to explain EQII and its game mechanics too you.

Sorry, I just cannot see how anyone can logically compare the mechanics of EQII summoners to engineer turrets. They are polar opposites as far s pets and mechanics go.

I just really have to disagree that turrets do not need to have scaling stats in the manner of the class you refer too.

I simply think the best start for a solution is to change how they aggro, then see how it goess from there, and re-evaluate their performance after that.

As too this

LameFox.6349:

LameFox.6349:

I’d rather the opposite really. A shorter cooldown means having to put them down all the time – better they be more effective so they’re worth the C/D.

Agree. Lowering the cooldown but then having to constantly replant them is not the solution. I think they should be made powerful enough that when they’re thrown down an enemy will have to seriously decide between focusing on the engineer or the turret (meaning turrets need to be a real threat). They’re a stationary object, so I think they can afford to be powerful since they can’t chase players around like a ranger’s pet.

I have to disagree do to the lack of mobility. Due to turrets being immobile, it would seem to me that a shorter cool down would offer the opportunity to put them down more often. It seems to me that this would be the posotive, not the negative.

Repetitive motion problems perhaps. But how would pushing a button cause Carpal Tunnel? Just asking?

Magic Night.1308:

Where did I said all classes, I said “summoner’s” pets scales with stats in EQ2.

Umm no you said

Magic Night.1308:

if you’ve ever have experience with other MMOs before like EQ2 they’ve also decided to let player stats boost up pets since the beginning,

You very specifically “claim” very broadly that "pet’s"and not “summoner’s pets”….Its in black and white.

Your statement was simply factually inaccurate. I was

You figuring in the fact that it has a longer bleed, In my case, that is an extra 130ish per tic at 80.

And the fact that it has weakness as well. It has to be a little less direct damage to balance out the benefit of weakness.

WE have bombs, I think most players consider those fairly melee as well.

Zinwrath.2049:

I think everyone expected/wants cooler and more useful turrets-gadgets because its what you expect from an engineer. i think there should be more traits around the gadgets personally they seem neglected. Turrets are such a mess of problems, im assuming they are working on ideas around them. What they come up with i’m eager to see.

I disagree, paticularly with the gadget comment. The gadgets are spectacular.

As far as turrets go, I think they might be okay if they just made some change in which they would not be absolutely the first thing to get aggroed and destroyed.

Lyuben.2613:

coglin.1496:

WoW, we got BoB fixed (thank goodness) and everyone complains?

As far as the grenades go, they sure seem quick to fix the one or two possibly OP issues we have, yet forget about all the UP or flat out broken ones.

People aren’t complaining about what they did fix.

More about what they didn’t fix.

Really? I got to the 3rd post and read this

XelNigma.6315:

ya we get it, anet wants engineers to be demo men.

but really, could they maybe start working on fixing non grenade/bomb kit stuff?
I really want to abeable to deploy my turrets among other turret related changes/fixes.

Seems like a complaint about a them fixing anything to do with bombs to me

My personal experience and testing shows that toughness mitigates a very noticeable difference more health then what vitality adds in comparison to damage taken. At least where direct damage is concerned.

As far as condition damage is concerned, vitality definitely wins out.

Magic Night.1308:

coglin, Zinwrath is right about this, the problem I find right now is summoned stuff can’t be improved by stats scaling,

That is simply not true. Mesmer “summoned stuff” scales with power, crit chance/damage, and condition damage.

I really do not think anyone cares what other MMOs like EQII does with pets. They have very different game mechanics. As well, turrets are not pets, they are minions.

Your broad statement that pets in EQII are affected by players stats is not accurate either….. I have played EQ, EQII, and EQOA .I have played all 3 since beta and have active accounts.
(well ecxept for EQOA, as that games servers shut down in march.)
Only certain pets for certain classes scale with stats. Some do not what so ever.

WoW, we got BoB fixed (thank goodness) and everyone complains?

As far as the grenades go, they sure seem quick to fix the one or two possibly OP issues we have, yet forget about all the UP or flat out broken ones.

I feel they need to stay as they are in respect to the stats effecting them. It is consistent with minion types such as necro pets as they do not scale either.

They turrets have as much or more survivability as any pets in the game, except tanky ranger pets. What would really improve turrets, would be a change in the aggro system towards the, so that they were not insta-aggro and nearly unpealable

What I hate most is the broken traits and skills. Such as having the shield trait, yet throw shield is bugged and does not get the reduced cool down.

Lyuben.2613:

As to whether or not thing should affect toolbelt skills, if they affect the main one, I think the answer is simply to make it clearer in the description.

And in general really.

Potent elixirs has such a vague description. Give exact numbers, and on which elixirs. As it stands, it does nothing for U and S. That’s misleading.

Absolutely. We have so many hazy, unclear, and downright misleading tool tips, it is ridiculous.

Yup, pistol. Static shot bounces between enemies at a range in a chain action.

Due to the fact that the tools line gives the ingenuity stat which lowers all 4 of the tool belt skills recharge, I believe it shows a good amount of logic that the specific traits that are designed to effect kits, only effect the kits. The class mechanic tool belt skill and the utility skills of the kits are two seperate entities.

1) Love the Shield. We are the only class that can carry a shield and reach out of melee range
2) Love all of the kits and how the tool belt skills reflect the kits theme.
3) I love that I can keep multiple stacks of confusion up 100% of the time. Nothing is more fun then watching the enemy do serious damage to themselves with each attack
4) Permissiveness
5) Love how east it is to go from a support and heal tic role, to a control role, to damage role with little effort and no need to change traits.
6) I love the debuff utility we have. I feel that is one of the most overlooked features of the class and is extremely group rewarding on bosses.

Aristio.2784:

It’s supposed to, but it’s bugged right now. The Elixirs on the Elixir Gun are technically Elixirs, but the devs haven’t gotten around to it yet.

Aristio.2784:

Read the skill. It’s classified as an Elixir in-game. Both Super Elixir and Acid Bomb falls under Elixirs.

Edit: I guess that isn’t a real answer to your question though. So I don’t know for sure.

Edit2: You can test this by traiting for HGH and using Super Elixir on yourself.

I believe it is more likely that it is classified wrong. We have a plethora of issue of this nature in our traits. Even in beta, I do not recall this being confirmed at all.

Odd, I never have this problem. Seeing as it is so hit ore miss between class’s
(other classes have threads swearing their class gets all the agro)

Really makes you wonder how the aggro system really works or if the system is even the same between mobs or if they have a system that varies depending on the type of mob or its rank.

defensively, I use mortar or nades. Offncively I use elixir R to do AoE revives, super elixir to keep AoE heal tics up, as well as healing mist.

Zinwrath.2049:

So far the developers arent as vocal as they are with the companys i mentioned earlier.

I have to solidly disagree. They have been extremely vocal here. There are hundreds of post by Anet folks every day. Just go look at the dev tracker. Simply because they are not posting on the threads you want them to does not mean they are not vocal.

They simply have a list of bugs to get to, long before they can get to the profession specific issues.

My BOOOOOOOOM STCHIIIICK

Jordan, that is the kind of uninformed misinformation that causes issues with new players when they read it.

Two thumbs up from the troll critics though.

Rikikitten285:

1. Remove tool kit, add maces as another engineer weapon

I am absolutely against this. All it does is hose those of us who successfully use the tool kit. I like it for a melee range kit, love the confusion I can stack with pry bar, static shot, and concussive bomb together to keep a minimum of 2 stacks, generally more in the range of 4 to 5, but to keep it up 100% of the time.

Aristio.2784:

I don’t like Glue Shot. It’s just too weak of a crowd control ability for me to use over Shield. Sure, Blowtorch is a great ability, but it’s not worth loosing Magnetic Shield over.

Glue Shot needs to be buffed in order for me to use Pistol/Pistol. At least make it a 1 second immobilize with a 3-5 second cripple.

Casia.4281:

p/p single target? what? p/p is almost entirely aoe. with coated bullets it is entirely aoe.

Also, I wouldn’t call Pistol/Pistol AoE anymore than I would call Rifle AoE. It’s a multi-target positional trait. Not truly AoE, but can still hit multiple enemies.

Why wouldn’t you call it entirely AoE? I have coated bullets and let me tell ya, it does not matter what you call it, is is extremely AoE. Everything pistols have at that point is at minimum a frontal come AoE. #1 has multiple splash effects. #2 and #4 are the true definition of frontal cone AoEs,……#3 literally bounces between targets and %5 is a GTAoE.

Just have to point all of that at, because your comments can be very misleading o players new to the game or the class. They are al by definition AoE abilities, so why you would want to convince players that they are not AoE is beyond my understanding.