Guild Wars 2

Gets what? All your suggestion does is completely remove the value of every single condition build. Forcing out build diversity, and forcing every player in the game, in all game modes to run direct damage and CC builds only. You idea would hyrt the game in all aspects.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Its not really the condition damage that is the problem. It is the NUMBER of conditions that can be easily applied without any thought at all. It is just spam, spam, spam. Then we get into Conditional removal which unless specifically built just to counter – not kill just counter condition builds mean you won’t be killing anyone and you will be killed by any hybrid or power build.

How does it “not take thought” to apply conditions? you have to set up attacks, land attacks, just as you do with with direct damage skills. What do you propose as an alternative?

I disagree with your assessment of condition removal. My experience in which I disprove it in game every day has me wondering what your basing it on. You appear to say the opposite of this on some of your elementalist thread post.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Pretty much every condition build has too many conditions, except Ele which have to rely on rune sets and Sigils to grab as many new Conditions as they can. Look what Condi Necro and Engineer can do compared to Condi Ele. Any build that is built for Anti conditions won’t have a problem with Ele because Ele can not spam numerous conditions over and over again. That is how ALL condition builds should be.

Define too many conditions please? What makes them to many? Why should all condition builds be limited on condition availability? For one, skilled or attentive players have no problem with it. Secondly, all your suggestion would do is promote everyone to use stun builds with direct damage instead. Which you have already complained about in post on that subject.

When you complain about stuns, and rant about conditions, whats left? Face to face fights with nothing on the side. Might as well buy you a copy of “Princess Margret’s Patty Cake Battle” and play that.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Rather than just spamming them from the moment you get into combat it should be about using the RIGHT condition at the RIGHT time. None of this Grenade spamming while at range and then spamming Pistol/Shield and Bombs. Or spamming auto attacks for conditions combined with Signet of Spite.

This just doesn’t make sense. Why are direct damage builds spamming there attacks okay? Yet condition attacks do less damage, and you come here demand they are singled out to be force slowed because you have trouble dealing with them.

I mean you contradict yourself in all of your elementailist post, demanding that they have more conditions and you constantly compare them to the engineer. It seems if they will done make the ele similar enough by adding conditions that you wish to nerf the engineer conditions availability. I mean you openly state you use perplexity runs and run a condi build in one post then a few weeks later your posting in another professions forums, demanding a nerf to conditions after you lose to them on your new profession.

Honestly, it often just appears to be poster after poster demanding the devs rebuild the game around them. There are 3,000,000 players with this game, and 50 players at most, who are constantly making these threads over and over and posting on them. What makes your guys inability to deal with conditions so special, that the devs should rebuild the game around you and hose the other 2,999,950 of us that have no problems dealing with them?

Rym.1469:

My first step would be to bound conditions to non-spammy atacks (such as engi nades, necro AA etc.), at least condition damage ones and reducing cleansing capability across the game a bit in exchange.

Since it has been proven 10 times over that grenades do way more direct damage then condition damage, isn’t this a bit hypocritical? I mean they do more damage as a direct damage AoE spam, and your okay with that, yet you are suggesting we should not be allowed to use them for conditions.

Swim.6830:

I never mentioned such a thing and I won’t get into any personal attacks. It would be a healthy change in the already overwhelming condition meta.

in any case immobilize should either break on certain dmg threshold or number of hits or max out at 5 seconds (enough to burst down anyone).

Then explain how it is out of control. Why are you unable to handle a single players immobilize that you feel the need to complain about it?

In PvE I agree that it shouldn’t really be stacking to 15s but in WvW for example I am okay with it as it would be from different sources. Immobilize is easy to break, and it would take multiple targets to stack it to high.

As far as all this other talk, I do not understand why everyone is attempting to drag this thread off topic. Other cc is irrelevant to this discussion. The title and the OP are about immobilize.

Raunchy.6891:

That’s a complete lie. Engi still can stack it to 20 but they’re the only class that could ever do that easily. Also the only time that should ever happen is if you aren’t paying attention. If you really think these runes will still be overpowered you have no grasp of how they work. It would be a poor choice to have these runes on classes that don’t already have good access to confusion because you will for sure not be doing much damage with them otherwise.

So tell us how do engies do that? Because this reads to me like your just blowing smoke.

Pry bar = 5 stacks for 5s on a 15s CD
Concussion Bomb = 5 stacks for 5s on a18s CD
Static shot = 2 stacks for 3s on a 15s CD

At best, with 100% condition duration you would have 12 stacks. Even with perplexity they don’t even hit 20 stacks under the most ideal conditions. And that would require you to be hit by 3 very telegraphed skills, right in a row, in a very very short period of time.

Seems a bit silly to claim someone else is lieing then go and do it yourself. And to claim it is “easy”, you clearly know little about the engineer my friend.

With the trait option, I feell like I can apply them much easier with mesmer. Particularly with the on blinding, on shatter, and upon destroying of illusion traits.

Orpheal.8263:

Conditions in general need all an overhaul in this game.

GW2 has way too many CC Conditions:

Knockdown/ Launch
Stun
Daze
Chill
Cripple
Fear
Torment
Confusion
Petrification
Immobilize

What are you even talking about?
Knockdown/ Launch
Stun
Daze
Petrification

These are not conditions at all. As I see it, conditions do not need an overhaul in the least, but the need of posters to make post such as this without even understanding the subject that they speak of that needs an over haul.

Orpheal.8263:

Nearly all of the Conditions of GW2 are CC’s !!

This game has 12 conditions. Literally only 4 of those are CC conditions. You do not know what are talking about.

Orpheal.8263:

Some of them are way too powerful, like Knockdown (a reason why you see in WvW to many Hammer Trains, because you can basically keep your foes perma knockdowned and you have no ways to counter it, other than using Stability, what is compared to this huge mass of CC Conditions way too less given in this game)

None of this has anything to do with the topic. Those are stuns, this thread is about immobilize. Your whining about stuns.

The second problems is, if there were no CC in this game, everyone would focus more on damage, and the complainers would simply be here crying about taking to much damage.

You should really pull up the wiki and learn what a condition is and what a stun is.

Swim.6830:

In other games you’d see things like CC immunity for a short time if you were just recently CCed (for example if you were knocked down you couldn’t be disabled again for 2 seconds or so) and things like root and stun break on damage. I’d be nice to see some re-balancing to encourage more thinking instead of mindless CC spam, just my 2 cents.

Why? Why should the individual that tangles with a 5 man group, be given an advantage against there CC.

I just cannot wrap my head around posters complaining when they confront multiple attackers, that they get out damaged, and out CCed…….What do you think is supposed to happen?

Easy there Ukuni, This isn’t a mobility discussion. We are discussing a bug, to bring attention to it so that it gets fixed. Not asking for a lecture on how you think we should play, particularly when you end by telling the community they need to learn how to play the profession for mobility of a warrior.

Manuhell.2759:

coglin.1867:

Why are you soooooo strongly against build diversity?? Why do you support forcing players to have a kit in their build??

What exactly makes you think i support it? I thought i was explicit enough in saying the opposite. I don’t like the current situation at all.
I was merely stating the current situation, if it wasn’t clear enough. And the current situation is basically that: forcing us to have kits.

It felt like you supported it to me, because you immediately attacked my first to post, singling out my reasoning for making a change to allow us equivalent access to 4 sigils similar to other professions. It appeared you preferred picking a fight with me over the options of welcoming my thoughts on positive changes for the engineer and elementalist.

Again, what does any of that have to do with only having access to one sigil set versus other professions having access to two????

Why are you soooooo strongly against build diversity?? Why do you support forcing players to have a kit in their build??

Manuhell.2759:

It would seem you’re misunderstanding what i was argumenting for, though. I was objecting to your argument of “they haven’t designed the profession around kits”. I wasn’t talking about sigil swaps.

Again you are not understanding the difference between designing around kits and balancing around kits. How does a balancing philosophy have anything to do with design?

Manuhell.2759:

And the lack of weapon swap is exactly what brings us to have just 2 sigils and no way of using on-swap sigils when we aren’t using kits, so i would say it is quite related to the problem in question (especially since the new rules on stacking ones will bring us to have a single sigil beside that one, unlike other classes that will be able to use three other sigils beside the stacking one).

There are ways to allow us access to a second sigil set similar to other professions. You can claim there is no way all you like, but I assure, it is quit possible.

Manuhell.2759:

Putting a fixed penality on the assumption that you will use a kit to make up for it means designing the class around kits, there isn’t much to argue about that.

Why isn’t there much argument? I am going to assume it is because you do not have the slightest idea why it is that way. ON RELEASE, SIGILS WERE NEVER EFFECTED BY KITS . …………IT IS NOT PART OF THE DESIGN, THE ENGINEER COMMUNITY SIMPLY DEMANDED FOR MONTH’S TO HAVE SIGILS WORK AS THEY DO NOW. IT WAS NEVER EVER PART OF ANETS DESIGN. INSTEAD IT WAS VERY LITERALLY A DIRECT FULFILLMENT OF A VERY SPECIFIC COMMUNITY REQUEST.

So do us both a favor, and stop telling me why or how things function, when you, yourself do not have the slightest idea of the “FACTS” of the situation.

Manuhell.2759:

If we don’t use kits, we are underpowered. By design. Because we get the full disadvantage, without the advantage.
Those are facts. That doesn’t mean i like the current situation, but rather, that it is just how it is, at least for now.

That is not true at all. you are factually in accurate. You have yet to offer an actual fact. Actually all of your fact thus far on this matter were either subjective opinion, or very literally factually inaccurate. As I see it, with static discharge, AED, PBR, Mine, and Utility goggles, I feel one can out damage almost any kit build on a single target. So they do not have a specific advantage with single target damage. A player can make a CC that has just as many CC skill without kits as with, so kits do not offer a specific CC advantage. Elixirs offer AoE stability, AoE invisibility, the ability to max stacks of might, great condition removal, and other various utility.

The only unarguable disadvantage they have is being hosed on weapon swap kits.

Manuhell.2759:

And i agree with this. As i said above, i was merely stating the current situation, that is highly unfavourable for anything that doesn’t include kits.

Then why do you keep attacking me for my personal opinion, while you keep claiming your personal opinion is fact ???

Manuhell.2759:

But we’re balanced like that, and unless they change their mind, we’ll continue to be balanced like that. And buffing a couple turrets or gadgets won’t be enough – the lack of a second weapon isn’t that small of an handicap, after all. Especially if the dps of the remaining one is nerfed by design.

Again, we are not “balanced” like that at all. They very literally only added sigils to kit swap based on community outrage and hundreds of post and threads, just like this one.

As for whether a lack of a weapon swap is a handicap or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that they gave us our request when we asked for sigils to effect kits. Now we are making similar request in an attempt to try to solve the obvious disadvantage have having access to less sigils in any given build. Your view of whether no weapon swap is a disadvantage or advantage has nothing to do with it.

Uhtameit.2413:

You’re wrong. Engineer needs to be able to use swap sigils for the sake of balance.

How am I wrong, when my entire argument is that engineers should be able to use swap sigils for the sake of balance.

Uhtameit.2413:

Buffing turrets and gagets won’t help since gadgets don’t deal damage and turrets are boring and useless whenever there is AoE.

Umm, Mine, PBR, and rocket boots all do solid damage, on both the utility skill itself and the tool belt aspect. As far as turrets go, I was referring specifically to the efforts they are making to beef them up.

Uhtameit.2413:

Yes, the concerns in this thread are legitimate, that’s why I bumped it myself in the first place (my message got deleted by a moderator though, so you’re free to not believe me).

I know they are legitimate, that is specifically why I said that. As to why you promote “bumping” the thread when it is specifically against the forums code of conduct is beyond me. I have no idea why you promote that you break forum rule, or how it is relevant.

You and I are on the same side of the fence here. I can only assume you skimmed my post instead of reading it, and made an incorrect assumption of my meaning in your rush. My entire point is that they need to find a solution for those who use gadgets or turret build. Whether you find turrets useful or not is irrelevant, there still needs to be some sort of solution for sigil value when using them. Players should not be punished by using full elixir, gadget, or turret builds. As of now, when we do, we are punished by an complete inability to use weapon swap sigils. Some of this may change with an upcoming update, and we may simply not be aware of it yet. If not, they really should look into it.

Just because they adjusted weapons with kits in mind, does not mean they designed the entire professions around kits, which is what he is suggesting and thus I feel he is wrong. As well, what I should have said was “I feel he is wrong”, because it is my opinion that he is wrong. We are all making interpretations.

You sure do like to make assumptions though. Your not offering any facts what so ever to support that they are designed around kits as he suggested, they were designed with kits in mind, there is a difference. All you are showing with your information is that weapons were designed with kits in mind. Again, there is a difference.

Either way, your missing the point. Of all the issues here, you are choosing to pick a fight over whose defining of it is more accurate. The fact is, your very strongly displaying support to fully exclude full turret or gadget builds.

Sometimes it truly baffles me when folks such as yourself argue in favor of situations that limit build options or in this particular case, impose strict punishments for builds options.

You can argue it or color it how ever you wish, but in no way is it reasonable to punish a professions for building towards a full heal/utility set such as a full turret build, a full elixir build, or a full gadget build.

Uhtameit.2413:

You would like to run a build without kits? are you trying to take the fun out of the game?

Engineer was designed around the kits, they are funnier than engineer’s main weapons, funnier than the other utilities by far, and you won’t deal enough damage (PvP or PvE) without them.

Your asking if you can play without kits and still get the sigil effects is the same as someone from another class asking if he can play with two off-hand weapons and no main hand weapons and still get 4 sigils..

Your wrong. Originally kits didn’t count as weapons swaps. Engineers were designed around the tool belt, with kits in mind. There is a huge difference. As well, now that they are making a push to try to solidify turret builds, and beef up gadgets, the concerns mentioned in this thread are very legitimate.

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

atm we got 3 build available for engy
- conditions build (with or without elixirs)
- bunker build for support
- SD for long ranged damage (sure granade got 1500 range but to slow)
if Anet want us to make build diversity, we need some improvement on turrets and gadgets

Wow, I think you have to be crazy to believe we only have 3 builds. There are 3 or so very different condition builds alone.

Is it just me, or is anyone else still having the occasional bug after using rocket boots? By this I refer to the situation in which your character stops moving at the end of the animation. I often have to release my directional control for a second and then press it again to resume my direction. It is not every time, but occasionally, and it really feels as if it hampers the mobility value of it to an extent.

If this ever happens to you, might I suggest joining me in filling out the occasional bug report to get the issue solved.

I don’t understand the idea behind the “what’s are role” question in general. With elixir infused bombs and healing turret, we are efficient healers, or even tanks. We have multiple melee or ranged damage dealer builds. Our ability to be a CC specialist is vast. We have an expanded list of fields we can create as well as many finishers for them.

It is not a matter of “what role” the professions is or is not. It is a matter of what role you build it to be.

a t s e.9614:

I guess they are nerfing crit dmg because the TTK ( time to kill) is too fast , they should also do the same for conditions and an additionnal 10% because condi builds are easier to play due to high defensive stats coupled with damage.

I know because I tryed both:

- condi warr 4k armor 25k hp
- zerk warr 2,4k armor 18k hp

Which build is easier? the condi. Which build does more damage? They both deal the same damage ( in a 1v1 situation) . Its just that condi is overtime and the other one is direct burst damage. Also direct damage can be easely negated with protection, weakness and high armor while condi dmg cant even be reduced.

You guys were happy cuz crit dmg got nerfed, wait till you see a perplex warr/mes/engi/necro destroying you in few secs with condis while being ridiculously tanky.

Also if you think that somehow this nerf will change the zerk meta in PvE you’re wrong, it will encourage it even more, PVT/cleric leech will be the first to get kicked from any sort of PvE content.

Anyway thats pretty much it, if you wanna nerf damage, you should also nerf condi.

Ugh, here we go again…………………………
You are comparing condition damage as a whole to a zerker build. The worst part is you are being intentionally dishonest about it. Example. A carrion geared warrior will not have any more armor then a zerker warrior.

Got a single fact to support your ultimate goal?? You comparing unequal statistical gear then avoiding offering information.

A soldiers gear warrior will out damage a dire gear warrior all day long and twice on sundays. Both of those geat sets have the exact same HP and armor.

Ican only assume you making your references to dire gear but your so none specific I cannot be certain. If your trying to claim that a dire warrior can even come close to a zerker warriors damage out put, then you truely do not know anything about the profession.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yeah, reduce the amount of damage conditions do over X seconds so that total is less than the amount of damage that direct damage attacks do instantly.

Balanced.

Umm it already is that way. If your trying to claim it is otherwise, I challenge to yo offer some damage comparisons to support your skewed suggestion.

I dunno if anyone mentioned this yet, But I like to turn the “melee assist” off in the options menu when running bombs. I feel it helps a fair deal.

(edit)
Melee assist prevents you from running through opposing character models, aimed to assist general melee weapons. Often this causes you to slide around them, and alter your direction or course at times. In some cases, can even end with your character moving backwards. You move slower when going backwards. In a 1v1 for example I like to walk through them, hindering their ability to hit me, with say, a sword for example. I have a mapped to to a instant 180 of my camera instantly(its available to set in the control scheme, also in the menu panel) forcing them to constantly put effort int rotating their camera. Once you slip into or past their character model their melee weapon will often not hit you. As I see it, this forces them to play to me and not the other way around, and can often cause several of their skills to miss.

glaphen.5230:

You are an Engineer…. Are you seriously implying you have easy to avoid conditions? You have 3 different weapon sets with a condition on each skill besides the auto attack and a huge amount of burning with a single trait, but yeah I’m sure that the 200-400 damage attacks were doing anything and not the 830 burning ticks.

What does this have to do with anything? Are you afraid of the rifles bleed when you are hit by an all direct damage build?? (for I asure all rifle users are power builds)

Let me offer you this challenge oh great wizard of engineer knowledge. In full condition gear what is the best damage per second any of the engineers 3 weapons sets can do? Go all out and break it down for us. Or even be lazy and go to the engineer forums for it, I don’t care. You will be shocked at the low damage. Of coarse we all know you will never do this. As you prefer to make your claims with out actual knowledge of your topic. As is evident in this thread. If you disagree, I will be glad to quote you some of you statement that were very literally, filled with mis-information, earlier on in the thread..

Also, I challenge you to find a condition weapons set that does have skills that are have direct damage attacks (just to show the silliness of your post I quoted.

Then find us a direct damage weapons set that does not have a condition on it. I doubt you will. Which makes you post here a bit useless.

As far as your direct reference here to the damage and the burning, what are you trying to say exactly? Seriously, what is your point? I mean you say " I’m sure that the 200-400 damage attacks were doing anything and not the 830 burning ticks."
But what difference does that make? I can go full power and do 2100 direct damage and have 4s of burning for 300.

glaphen.5230:

Ah did not know that, still doesn’t make it worth using precision for on most classes.

Every other post you make is followed up by an “Ah did not know that” or someone explaining you were mistaken. Why do you keep posting about things you are unknowledgable about? As well, how do you know its value for most professions, after you previously admitted you do not even have experience with Most professions??

In my experience, it is a very very common sigil In WvW condi builds. it is also very much a reason to raise precisions, because it only has a 30% chance to proc on crit. It last 7s and is AoE. Would you like me to explain how much damage that is? Or how torment works sir?

glaphen.5230:

Nope, I think vitality is the worst stat for most classes, doesn’t really make precision useful for most condition builds either way.

Odd, as vitality is known as the best stat to counter conditions. As they ignore toughness, vitality adds the ability to absorbe the damage. As well its absorption allows for greater use and value of condition removal.

And as a very wise man already posted

Maskaganda.2043:

coglin won this thread.

Here, try this.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

It is a build editor that will allow you to theorcraft on your own and look at what might work for you. As well, it will let you take builds you read about and lay them out so you can see all the skills and traits and how they should work in a given build.

Glaphen, Harper, and MiLkZz. got beat by a fight 3v1 once time by an engineer, so they demanded this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

glaphen.5230:

Kravick.4906:

glaphen.5230:

But as said very earlier in this thread they only have one stat, condition damage. Precision is a fluff stat and condition duration is only on one weapon type. As kittening always I’m still waiting for any of these videos and the only video posted is about unrealistic situations.

Precision isn’t a fluff stat for condition users. There is no way a condi user is going to be doing even 3k DPS without precision. Those proc effects make up pretty decent chunk of their damage. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn’t mean its “fluff”.

The bleeds are a whole 100 dps more with Rabid at the cost of a chunk of defensive stats.

I just happen to be on my engineer. Sharpshooter is 3s bleed. 33% proc chance on crit. 140 per bleed. that is 420 damage. But you claim we can be at base crit of 4% and do the same damage. In a 30/30/x/x/x build with 100% condition duration, that is 840 damage. But you also claim condition duration is a stat we do not need.

Crit chances are also key for our vigor. Just as much as direct damage.

Vigorous Precision — Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.
Empowering Might — You and nearby allies gain might when you land a critical hit.
Furious Speed — You have a chance to gain swiftness on critical hits.
Precise Strikes — Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
Rending Strikes — You have a chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Forceful Greatsword — Gain might on a critical hit with a greatsword or spear. Reduces recharge on greatsword and spear skills.
Incendiary Powder — Critical hits inflict burning.
Sharpshooter — Critical hits have a chance to cause bleeding.
Infused Precision — You have a chance to gain swiftness on critical hits.
Go for the Eyes — Critical hits with rifles have a chance to inflict blindness.
Precise Sights — You have a chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits
Companion’s Might — Critical hits grant might to your pet.
Sharpened Edges — Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
Ankle Shots — Critical hits with a pistol have a chance to cripple foes.
Sundering Strikes — Critical hits have a chance to cause vulnerability.
Critical Haste — You have a chance to gain quickness on a critical hit.
Burning Precision — Critical hits have a chance to cause burning.
Weak Spot — Chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Soothing Wave — Gain regeneration when critically hit.
Arcane Precision — Skills have a chance to apply a condition on critical hits.
Renewing Stamina — Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.
Critical Infusion — Gain vigor when delivering a critical hit.
Barbed Precision — Critical hits have a chance to cause bleeding.
Reaper’s Precision — You have a chance to gain life force on critical hits.
Withering Precision — Apply weakness on critical hits.
Vampiric Precision — Siphon health whenever you critical hit.

Sigil of Blood — chance to cause life stealing
Sigil of Earth — chance to cause Bleeding.png Bleeding
Sigil of Frailty — chance to cause Vulnerability.png Vulnerability
Sigil of Ice — chance to cause Chilled.png Chilled
Sigil of Rage — chance to gain Quickness.png Quickness
Sigil of Strength — chance to gain Might.png Might
Sigil of Nullification — chance to remove a boon
Sigil Of Torment —- Chance to apply torment.

All of these need crits to apply. I believe it was GK who posted the math that 40% crit chance increases condition damage output by 27%…. If you feel that isn’t a damage increase, then i guess there is not reasoning with you.

MiLkZz.4789:

3. . Conditions like cripple and chill will cut the mobility and conditions are always spammed from range.

My bomb engineer says Hi. He also feels you are not very aware of how conditions work.

Then why didn’t you argue against it For other professions? Your okay for professions who have lesser defenses losing mobility but you argue for the profession with top armor and hp not to have it happen to them. Doesn’t that strike you as a bit hypocritical.

glaphen.5230:

But then where are your condition removals if you take the more than 2 stun breaks needed?

Where are my stun breaks If I take 2 condition removals? Now I am weak to the Guardian/Warrior hammer CC.

You see how this is panning out. You can only build one way or another. You cannot build to counter everything. That is kind of the point.

The problem is, players invest in damage, anti stun, and direct damage defense, then come to the forums and make QQ threads about conditions.

Then they build for conditions then complain about suns/knock backs all over the forums, QQing about CC.

Then they make all out tanky builds, run to the forums after to post QQ about their lack of damage.

The fact is, you have to focus one way or the other, or be mediocre at all. it is the players choice. The problems start, when said players run to the forums QQing because they lose to the one they didn’t build against, make false claims or uninformed accusations.

glaphen.5230:

Because a dps test of ridiculous circumstances isn’t worth kitten. No one with a working keyboard or mouse should die to a melee Guardian with a condition build since every class besides Guardian has spammable cripple or chill with their conditions.

Yet you are okay claiming they sit in melee range of say an engineer using bomb kit. Or that the 2 second bleed of the pistol is OP too. Brilliant sir.

Harper.4173:

I like how in every thread you pop up and reference these " educated skill damage comparisons " but in NONE of these threads have you ever bothered posting them in order to back yourself up.

Really, so the 32 videos (2 power and 2 condi builds for each profession) and Full damage comparison spread sheet do not exist now. Or the multiple others who have posted similar? I will gladly relink some here. All you have to do in return is video 2 soldiers gear and 2 dire gear videos of your own, comparing the damage. It will hep you learn for yourself. Had you actually done this before you spoke out of a lack of understanding of the compared damage in the first place, you wouldn’t have this confusion.

Harper.4173:

You’re always asking others to " prove " themselves yet you’ve never provided evidence to counter any point being made.

Your absolutely right. No one on the entire forums, or even internet for that matter has ever posted a video, spread sheet or build to build damage comparison. We all no players never ever do this in video games. Nothing of the sort has ever been posted here, on twitch, you tube, or other forums like guru or anything.

I will concede to you, so that you may thoroughly enjoy your blissful ignorance and continue to spam the forums with untested and inexperienced claims while I continue my fun in WvW doing what you claim over and over is not true.

You win the internet.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Seems to me like you’re saying that it’s fine for Thieves to use stealth to escape combat but it’s not OK for a Warrior to use their speed to do the same thing.

I am not so much saying it, as I am showing you that it is a fact that the devs sait it and it is intended to be so in balanced design.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Not many Warriors run GS + Sword/Warhorn, most only have a GS.

You mean you believe not many do. Because I find it hard to beleive you have had experience with all 50+ servers to even have the slightest experience with what they all do. I can tell you I see roamers and small havoc’s us it all the time with my experience. I am on JQ so I see mostly BG and TC alot. My experience there says different then yours on your level, just sayin.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Meanwhile, I thief with D/P can use their weapon set to stealth, head in a random direction, drop Shadow Refugee, and never be seen again if they don’t want to. What makes this more useful than just running is that you can hang around and pick someone off or if it’s a big fight just heal up because no one will be directly targeting you. I’ve stunned Thieves in SR many times but unless I kill them it doesn’t matter because they can shadow step away. Even if I do down them they can get stealthed again while downed then stack it with the downed stealth and simply revive and repeat the whole process over.

You are spending 90% of your time attacking thieves, and almost none, offering arguments for warriors unnecessary mobility. It seems clear you are using this as a conduit to vent hate about thieves, not offer reason for warriors.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Why is this OK but it’s not for Warrior to have the ability to use their gap closers are a means to escape? The double standard you have is obvious.

It is? so They have the highest armor pool? They have the highest Hp pool? They have the warriors ability to cleanse 3 conditions every 10s? That is crazy. And here I was, all this time, believing they had stealth because they had the lower armor, Hit points, lesser condition removal.

Let me ask you this, when did you level your thief? How much time in WvW for example, do you have on it compared to your warrior?

BurrTheKing.8571:

And Thieves are supposed to use their Stealth to set up attacks, not to run away and hide like a scared child.

Is that what stealth is designed for? Do you have any proof of this or are you simply representing your opinion as fact? All I know is I linked dev quotes stating that it is a fact that thieves are intended to have more mobility then Warriors. Unless you have an actual dev quote or a fact, or even reasonable evidence, all your doing is spinning your wheels.

Honestly, this angle of “I have no actual facts or evidence, but your wrong cause I said so” argument just works against you, as well as removes your credibility in general.

I mean the facts and evidence are all there that make this entire “thief” angle of a warriors argument a bit laughable if you ask me. It is as if the warrior community would rather try to out smart common sense rather then offer a reasonable solution.

I have leveled all professions to 80, predominantly in WvW. I do not main an ele (I play all of them but strongly main an engineer) and I am strongly for RTL reverted back or fixed. I never understood this particular change out of all the nerfs the ele received.

@ Glaphen You need to scroll up. All of your arguments we addressed before you posted. You simply chose to ignore facts force your opinion

I challenge you to go and actually test all 8 professions in your best soldiers gear direct damage and then dire gear, you will learn for a fact that ditect damage doesn’t need crit chance any more or less then conditions. You will also learn you will be able to make no precision power builds out damage dire builds. It has already been broken down, compared, and even recorded on video and posted on the forums many times.

All of the following need crit chance to maximize benefits on a condition build

This is not the full list

Vigorous Precision — Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.
Empowering Might — You and nearby allies gain might when you land a critical hit.
Furious Speed — You have a chance to gain swiftness on critical hits.
Precise Strikes — Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
Rending Strikes — You have a chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Forceful Greatsword — Gain might on a critical hit with a greatsword or spear. Reduces recharge on greatsword and spear skills.
Incendiary Powder — Critical hits inflict burning.
Sharpshooter — Critical hits have a chance to cause bleeding.
Infused Precision — You have a chance to gain swiftness on critical hits.
Go for the Eyes — Critical hits with rifles have a chance to inflict blindness.
Precise Sights — You have a chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits
Companion’s Might — Critical hits grant might to your pet.
Sharpened Edges — Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
Ankle Shots — Critical hits with a pistol have a chance to cripple foes.
Sundering Strikes — Critical hits have a chance to cause vulnerability.
Critical Haste — You have a chance to gain quickness on a critical hit.
Burning Precision — Critical hits have a chance to cause burning.
Weak Spot — Chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Soothing Wave — Gain regeneration when critically hit.
Arcane Precision — Skills have a chance to apply a condition on critical hits.
Renewing Stamina — Gain vigor when you deliver a critical hit.
Critical Infusion — Gain vigor when delivering a critical hit.
Barbed Precision — Critical hits have a chance to cause bleeding.
Reaper’s Precision — You have a chance to gain life force on critical hits.
Withering Precision — Apply weakness on critical hits.
Vampiric Precision — Siphon health whenever you critical hit.

Sigil of Blood — chance to cause life stealing
Sigil of Earth — chance to cause Bleeding.png Bleeding
Sigil of Frailty — chance to cause Vulnerability.png Vulnerability
Sigil of Ice — chance to cause Chilled.png Chilled
Sigil of Rage — chance to gain Quickness.png Quickness
Sigil of Strength — chance to gain Might.png Might
Superior Sigil of Nullification — chance to remove a boon

BurrTheKing.8571:

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

A. My information was more recent then yours. Not to mention, your linking a PR department advertisement quote and I am quoting the Design Leader.

B Attacking speed and recast speed does not mean mobility. Context my friend, context. It specifically states “in battle” not “to run like a scared child” which is what many are defending the ability to do here, or “mobility around the map”, it says "in battle.

Sons.5493:

Ofcourse direct damage has more damage output that conditions (fairly) but thing is it’s direct, you need to be there, play agresive in order to actually put out damage, in condtion builds you just need to apply conds and play as defensive as you can which you’ll be able to do thanks to your godly tank stats.

You really do not understand how the game works ??? If skill A does 500 direct damage in 1s and skills B does 500 condition damage and takes 5s. The play is the same. Its a fairly basic concept. You very literally have to land the exact same amount of attacks. Both of which can be dodged or blocked, neither landing direct damage or condition damage.

Sons.5493:

So what you are saying is that a Full soldier Direct damage based build will be able to take on a condition based build? I think not.

Certainly you think not. While educated players know so. Again I challenge you to prove this claim.

You see what your not grasping is that you build with toughness in mind to naturally mitigate direct damage. You build with a stun breaker. But your not directly building to counter conditions. Then you complain when you fall to them. Build to counter for it or stop complaining.

Sons.5493:

You do realise we are talking about pvp here right? it’s not only aout the damage but they way it is applied and negated. Stop being so god kitten arrogant with your test when the meta is obviously shifted in favor of cond damage in the 1v1 potential.

Arrogance sir, is ranting your opinion as fact, with out actual knowledge of the facts or having done a single iota of testing, then going on as if your opinion is fact. What arrogance isn’t, is posting fact to counter mis-information, and disliking that someone made uninformed claims with out even checking the facts for themselves.
Funny, since you very literally do not put in the that this is PvP, and you very specifically only mention WvW and PvE in your rant of an OP.

Sons.5493:

As someone already said precision is just a fluff stat and Cond duration is mostly accquiered through food and traits.

That is a very uninformed statement. Do you have any idea how many conditions applied to you are based on “proc’ed crits” You ned to look here for example

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit

Look at the very very long list of conditions that apply on crit and tell me critical chance doesn’t matter.

And if you think condition duration doesn’t count either, your hopeless. In sPvP for example I think you can get what, 30% condition duration. If you do not consider a 30% damage increase for one of the two damage types, your not looking at it clearly at all. If you think condition duration and critical chance do not play a part in condition builds, it is your own failure of understanding the game mechanics. that is your problem in sPvP and nothing else.

Ario.8964:

Because my thought on why people may find conditions op where they think direct damage isn’t is pressure, direct damage NORMALLY (I say that because builds are different so im making it is clear that I acknowledge everyone is not the same) just requires you to dodge the main part of their burst and youre in the clear but with conditions there is a constant ticking damage that can last quite a while

Personally, I feel it is because they do not put near the investment in anti conditions as they do anti direct damage with toughness or what not. The problem with your idea of pressure is, that If skill A does 500 direct damage in 1s and skills B does 500 condition damage and takes 5s. The damage per skill landed is the same. If you dodge my skill for condition application, I lose just as much damage as I would if you dodged my direct damage of the same out put. The problem is the perception of the two damage types are different. A player cannot stack up on toughness, then complain that condition do more damage. Of course they would, because you invested in toughness to mitigate direct damage and nothing to counter conditions. Hp helps to absorb conditions, but weapons skills, utilities, and traits require an investment to counter conditions. The OP for example, probably invest none of the resources towards mitigating condition, then blast the forums when he falls to them.

The same goes for stacking all defensive traits, stats, and skills, then complaining that you lack damage. If looking at it that way help to process what I am saying.

Harper.4173:

@Orpheal.8263 – the numbers matter – not what it feels like.
Plus – you’re not focusing on the core aspect – you said that mobility was supposed to be the thief’s core deal. That was wrong and I corrected you. Your core mechanic is stealth. Not mobility. That’s the ranger, and maybe warrior.

“Steal” is the thief’s professional mechanic. Multiple professions can stealth, either with direct stealth skills or by creating a smoke field or combo-ing off of anothers smoke field.

Steal is the professional mechanic.
Initiative is their core mechanic.
Stealth is a game mechanic.

Interestingly enough, mobility is not an intended mechanic of any kind for warriors. (segwaying back on topic since you cannot appear to stay on topic)

Now read the balancing philosophies posted by Jonathan Sharp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

Thief

Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

it does not say warriors and mobility, it stated thieves and mobility.

Warriors are literally intended to be designed to be weak to chill, immobilize, and cripple, possibly as well as poison.

Warrior

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

I hate to inconvenience you with such things as facts and stuff like developer and game designer statements, Harper, but you keep trying to blow smoke at us and tell us what is what, when you truly do not know for yourself. Even though this isn’t the first time I have linked actual facts and information to you in this very thread. You seem to keep trying to out talk common sense because you refuse to admit your repeated inaccurate claims might just be, well, inaccurate.

Sons.5493:

There’s no real need to explain why condition build are so terrible unbalanced.

Actually there is. As the educated players have all seen the skill damage comparisons and videos proving that in most cases direct damage builds out damage condition builds. I am going to guess your making this blind accusation after having run zero test and no damage comparisons what so ever. I suggest doing it in soldiers compared to dire as I and other have already done, broken down, videod, and posted.

Sons.5493:

It taked 1 stat to max out damage and the other 2 can be ba directed towards tankiness while direct damage users need, power, precision AND critical damage to proc our best output in sacriface of all survival whatsoever.

This is actually untrue. I challenge you to prove your claims. Take the top damage builds in soldiers gear (only takes 1 stat for damage and the exact same two defensive stats). Hopefully in trying, you will learn for yourself what so many others have learned, tested, and posted, long ago.

Sons.5493:

As a thief player there’s not enough cond removal in any kind of build which can remove all the condition that condition build can apply (and re-apply cus why not) other than heavily investing in a trait line that i may or may not feel like traiting in just to counter game imbalances. That’s the reality of gw2.

Shadow Step/Return and Shadows Embrace are the best bet for thief. As a profession they are one of the lesser for condition removal, but that is in the inherent design of the profession. Condition applying skills are as easy to dodge as any other skill, just as hard to apply as direct damage skills when in stealth. There are some other professions with just as bad condition removal.

Sons.5493:

Anyone who denies how conditions are completly broken in this game on all classes going from Thief, mesmer, engie (broken as kitten k bye) Necro and warrior (also gg broken), is purely lying to himself or is a condition user himself.

That is not a very well thought out argument. Anyone who claims this has simply tested it and knows that it is actually a fact that direct damage builds have higher damage out put then conditions, and this is based on test and damage break downs in equivalent off/def stated gear.

Perhaps you should actually do a test yourself, and know some facts before you make such uninformed comments.

You only listed thief and stealth and mesmer and stealth neither of which have anything to do with mobility. Nor have you mentioned other professions.

I have only had one precursor drop. Otherwise I made intelligent investments to make purxhases.

glad to see you admit you made the choice to grind and that is not mandatory.

I tend to play about 3-4 hrs a night around 10 days a month after the kids go to bed. Maybe 2 hrs more on the 2 nights before I rotate from days to nights (such is the life of an engineer who works rotating swing shifts)

None of which has to do with the fact that you are unaware of the limitations of other professions, and how your demanding to remain unreasonably over powered when it comes to the other professions.

Harper.4173:

1) GS Hammer + Hammer S/ WH are not the troll builds that combine both S+WH+GS. Those builds are somewhat viable but they’re not OP. They don’t have the insane moblility people are going on about. I was referring to the troll GS + WH +S.

You appear to confuse me with “other people”. I do not care what you think a troll build is, or what other people are complaining about. I Play all professions and leveled them to max and thus have my own opinions and thoughts. Learning about other professions might serve you well too.

Harper.4173:

2)I’m not suggesting warrior utility slots should be nerfed – I’m explaining to you that everything you do in this game uses up a resource – not only using utility skills but also using weapon skills.
By having that GS instead of a longbow you’ve lost a bit of efficiency. By having a S +W H you don’t get to have an axe and make use of eviscerate.

So? You don’t mind comparing utility skills of other professions to the warrior greatsword. You claimed “Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.” and I challenged you to prove that now for a third time and you continue to ignore it. Because you will learn that other professions lose slots for stun breakers, condition cleansing, or damage, in order to slot a mobility skill, that warriors have in weapons.

SO now you are arguing that warriors deserve your preference of damage+cc efficiency, hp efficiency, armor/toughness efficiency, and mobility efficiency. Brilliant stance to take. That angle will surely win everyone over.

Harper.4173:

Don’t tell me that in a fight where nobody has to move around and you don’t have to chase or run a warrior that has a Hammer and a Axe + Shied will be worse off than a warrior that has a Hammer and a GS.

What does any of that have to do with say, engineer, necro, guardian, or ranger……….. inability for mobility compared to warrior?

Harper.4173:

3)Like I said – disregading weapon skills mesmers can blink and stealth, thieves can stealath, rangers can use GS, eles can use FGS, Engis have builds that are incredibly hard to catch and kill that are somewhat akin to the decap engi of sPVP. Guardians and necros I’ll admit have a harder time disengaging.

Wait what? Your comparing your basic weapon skills to elites, like fiery great sword? What does stealth have to do with mobility (read the thread title)? Oh please, tell me what the engineer can use for mobility? You do not even know do you??? I bet any reply to this you use, you will have to look up, then I will have to correct you. They have to use a utility slot just to have a weapons swap, after that, “rocket boots” is their only mobility skill. How many slots would they have for a cleanse? How many slots would they have for CC?? How many slots would they have for a stun breaker??? It is not so much that you arguments (in this case in particular) are unreasonable, but they are also extremely uneducated.

Harper.4173:

4)This game is grindy – and the fact that you don’t know it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
If you want a legendary, or ascended gear – you’ll have to grind for it. Sorry to break your bubble but that’s the way it is.
You’re choosing to play the game in a way that doesn’t require grind – that’s ok – but you’re not playing ALL of it.
If you want to play this game entirely and benefit from all they’ve put in the game ( high-end skins, ascended armor, legendary weapons) you will have to grind. There is no way around it.

Your really pushing off topic here, but legendary (all 3) took me no grinding. I stored stuff as I earned it. Literally once a precurser dropped, all I had to do was go to the mystic forge and done. You really lack the ability to understand choices. YOU may chose to grind to get it fast or to buy it with gold. I simply let my game play itself earn it. Don’t call other players liars simply because you CHOSE to grind due to your impatience. BTW how many legendaries do you have?

Harper.4173:

5)The changes I’m referring to and you’re not understanding that are the changes that were brought to the defense line – cleansing ire, dogged march – the changes you’re saying to against their philosophy of warrior which would be he’s very weak to conditions.

Interesting. You promote ignoring a philosophy when it benefits your preferred main profession, but stand sternly against it for other professions. Again sir, I say Brilliant.

Op you need to play some other professions and see how limited they are on condition removal, hp, defense, mobility, and damge. No profession can even touch the warrior in its ability to combine all of those in one build. The last thing they need is what your proposing. Your request is unreasonable compared to what the options of other professions are.

Harper.4173:

This is not about weapon skills to disengage. It’s about having the ability to do it.
If anything having your disengage tied into your weapon is a disadvantage since it forces you to have that weapon equipped to do it.

Actually it very literally is about the weapons skills. I have no problem with warriors using utility skills for mobility. But being able to do so with weapons is over the top. Utilities (which really only include “bulls Rush” ) take up a resource and have longer cool downs. But you sure are argueing as if you take the stance of having it nerfed as well.

Harper.4173:

Just like how you use a resource to have a utility skill you also use a resource to use up a weapon skill.
You do realize GS is not exactly viable in any form of PvP right? Apart form its mobility it requires very bad opponents or incredibly good use of utility skills to be able to land any significant damage .

It is very Viable (appears you are not actually aware of that words meaning) in WvW. I am on JQ and see GS/Hammer and Hammer/Sword+War horn used very very consistently. By the way from what I can tell you are mistaking viability with player skill.

Harper.4173:

You’re deliberately trying to distort things by saying that using a utility skill is resorting to the use of a resource but doing the same with a weapon slot isn’t. It’s sad.

No it isn’t. But that is my opinion. Your welcome to yours. I am simply suggesting that any warrior utility have no need of being nerfed so I am leaving them out of the discussion. Your arguments promote nerfing utility skills that speed the warrior up.

Harper.4173:

And if you’re not so locked into the whole " weapon skills " thing I think it’s easy to see how classes can disengage.

So what your saying is, since you actually do not know, you refuse my challenge to share with us how other professions are do mobile.

Harper.4173:

Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.

It is not obvious. What it does offer evidence of, is that when warriors were considered under powered, in the buffing process, they over shot it a bit. Stop trying to out think common sense.

Harper.4173:

Remember " We don’t make grindy games " or my personal favorite " We want all players to have the best statistical loot in the game" – or something along those lines – i don’t have time to find it but we all know that quote.

The game isn’t even remotely grind. At all. I have never ground anything out in the game. I run WvW with my guild, do the occasion PvE. If your doing something over and over as a grind, it is because you chose to do so for your choice of purposes. To fling blame for your choice of purposes just shows a lack of ability to accept the responsibility of your own actions. As far as the loot you refer to. I Have a full set of exotics of every stat combination at my fingertips any time I want the the badges I have earned as I played like normal. Not only are your arguments here head scratchily illogical, they are irrelevant to balance.

Harper.4173:

Things change – deal with it.
You ARE turning a blind eye to the fact that without these changes warrior was a SITTING DUCK in any form of PVP. Or perhaps you weren’t around playing when that was a thing.
That is a fact. Not a subjective view.

No, I play a warrior on oft occasion, and I do not use those mobility weapons, and I am never a sitting duck. I find it a lacking argument to suggest that simply because you have to run from fights or die as a “sitting duck” that you assume the rest of us are stagnant at that same lesser skill level.

Many professions have no mobility in weapons skills at all, and I am having no difficulty feeling like a sitting duck on them, and they don’t have near the defenses, damage, and control combinations of my warrior.

Your perspective is as mine, a subjective. The difference is, I have the ability to understand that. Takes a unrealistic ego to suggest your or my view is other then what it is.

MrForz.1953:

Why would you bother with any of the new traits compared to what we have now.

Why wouldn’t you. You do not have the slightest clue how they will work with the other incoming changes they haven’t mentioned yet.

Harper.4173:

Also – without these skills Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.

Prove it. I challenge you to prove you claim that “all the other profession” have weapons skills to disengage. Because I do not think you can. It has already been stated that the scope of this issue does not evolve utility skills, as they use a resource. The resource of limited utility slots.

Harper.4173:

I like how you’re turning a blind eye and spamming the " highest toughness highest life pool" to back up your claims that our mobility should be nerfed.
News flash : back before warrior was fixed we still had those and were a complete free kill in any form of PVP.
High defense and high HP mean nothing if you can be kited to death with no change to disengage.

Now that we have this – you want it taken away – seems pretty fair.

Blind eye? Not sure how I did that since I quoted specifically what they stated in the warrior balancing philosophy. Your making subjective arguments based on your opinion (and pushing your skewed opinion as if it were fact), while I on the other hand am providing actual dev statements and real facts.

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Warrior mobility is the only way to counter kiting. Kiting is the easiest way to kill a warrior. Play better instead of asking for free kills.

A) They are literally refereed to by devs as gap closers, not gap makers.

B) Anets Balance Philosophy and Professional opinions, posted by Jonathan Sharp list where warriors are intended to thrive and mobility is not one of them. To the contrary it list that “They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions” , mobile strikes and dogged march, that contradict this.

C) The profession with the highest HP pool, Highest defense availability (armor+toughness) is over reaching to also have the ability to escape so easily.

Personally I have leveled all 8 professions to 80, primarily in WvW. I have my own experiences with my warrior in comparison to my other professions. Everything about the devs idea and philosophy on the warrior states they are supposed to be weakest of all to “hampering” conditions. Yet they are not. Something has got to give.

You mention “playing better”, when you are worried about mobility with all of the condi clears, toughness, hit points, and damage wrapped in one? Seems to me you should take that advice you seem to throw at others in such an uninformed fashion.

Celestial armor is not expensive. It is just a bit time consuming. I use travelers runes with it.

(1): +10 to All Stats; +2% Critical Damage
(2): +15% Boon Duration
(3): +10 to All Stats; +2% Critical Damage
(4): +10% Condition Duration
(5): +10 to All Stats; +2% Critical Damage
(6): +25% Movement Speed

It offers some of everything. It gives your defensive builds some offense and your offensive builds some survivability. And depending on who logs on or off in my guilds as the evening goes on, I might change my build a few times through out the night.

Lets start with some preferences you haven’t mentioned yet. Do you prefer ranged or melee fighting? Do you fell you personally like rifle, pistol/shield, or Pistol/Pistol? They are all equally useful, so just let us know which one appeals to you more? The engineer is one of the best professions for build diversity, so if you offer a few specifics, we can chip away to some of the options that might suit you best. I recommend going for what appeals to your sense of fun to start, then we can refine that to what would be functional for what you want to do. Because I do not care what anyone says, playing in a manner that you have fun with on a personal level is the key to this game.

MonMalthias.4763:

With regards to Power Bombs, and I mentioned this on stream to you Chaith, I don’t think that using anything bar the autoattack is going to be able to compete at all with Grenadier Grenades given the total power coefficients of GK vs BK. Bomb Kit would require a practical rework for Power Bombs to be viable instead of the kiting Condi-Bombs we see right now.

In what respect do you say this? Because I can tell you in any situation in which you have a group or more in WvW, this statement is way off. For a front line engie, conditions in anything havoc group or larger, conditions are next to useless, because folks stack condition removals. Glue bomb doesn’t care about stability, And the AoE pulsing blindness of Smoke bomb is of great benefit. Basically, Unless your a solo roamer, in a WvW situation, power will serve you better then bombs.

MonMalthias.4763:

The viability of Power Bombs has been steadily nerfed over time (and condi-bombs buffed) to the point where BK is pretty much only useful for spreading conditions then swapping out.

In what way, with what changes did power of bombs get nerfed? How did conditions get buffed? As of now, bomb auto attack being able to consistently doing 6k-8k damage with the 25/25 might/vul must have of a PvE group. On a bit of a side note. Beware when quoting Casia. She was notorious for flawed math. I do not have anything against her, but it is true.

MonMalthias.4763:

The only way I could foresee Power Bombs ever being a thing would be:

Not sure I understand this comment. As bombs are considered by the general public as the best damage achievable in PvE. And in a large portion of WvW conditions are nullified to a great extent, making power the far better choice.

Now, I admit, I love my bomb kit and Use the heck out of it, but my experience combined with what I read over the 3-4 major forums, I am just not understanding where you came to some of these conclusions, as a fair portion of your statements go against the basic thinking of what I see out of the community.

Wait….what? Everyone hated on grenades and bombs till they nerf them. No we are complaining to get warrior damage nerfed. So why shouldn’t professions like the engineer have CC after you have already cried until they heavily nerfed there damage.

Kaga.7629:

Strawman argument. We’re talking about mobility here. Good try.

Interesting, I stated literal facts, and you call that “strawman”??? That doesn’t seem like a very solid argument, but I guess your just grasping at straws (see what I did there?)

Kaga.7629:

Oh, so turn back the clock 6 months back to when warriors had one viable build with cleanse (soldier rune shoutheals) , undo all the boosts, kitten warriors, get your free bags here? I dont think so. Don’t even try quoting stuff from the dark ages of guild wars 2 ( most probably out of context too). The game has been out for more than a year . Things change. The game evolves. DEAL WITH IT.

I don’t follow you here. What does any of that have to do with mobility? I guess when no logical argument is avaliable you feel an illogical one is the proper path???

Kaga.7629:

You’re going about it totally backwards. It’s not like ALL warriors can do this… you have to build and get specific weapons and utilities to get this mobility… which ALLOWS you to choose your fights. It doesn’t happen automagically.

All you have to do is arm a greatsword. That is not building for anything. I literally suggested one small change to one skill, and your making a very strong effort to bury my listed facts and logic in a pill of “illogical”……You wouldn’t happen to be a lawyer or politician would you???

Kaga.7629:

As a solo roamer, you get caught up by a posse and you’re done. So the mobility setup is so you don’t go across the map to get farmed in 4.3 seconds by a 5 man ganksquad. Hence choosing your battles : you use your movement to not get farmed. And reset fights every now and then when things aren’t going your way. If thieves can disengage, why can’t warriors? Just let him run and go gank someone else. Accept the stalemate.

Wait….. what? Your most logical defense is that if a full group or more runs across you that you might die? How quaint. You actually believe your preferred profession should be balanced against an entire group. Well, let me ask you this. What are the other professions with less Hp or less base armor , or both, who all have less mobility supposed to do?? Why do you deem those of us listing facts, logic, and common sense “Q Q ing” as you accuse us, but your illogical comparisons and unreasonable replies are supposed to be taken seriously??

Kaga.7629:

Read my history. Try to find me kittening on other profession’s forums. I double dare you.

Thank you for offering support for my argument in this one single line. You have no experience with other professions, but attack anyone else who opposes you sense of balance. You sir, should either become a comedian or run for congress. I applaud your ability to make a sane mans head spin.

Kaga.7629:

So let’s see….. the Q.Q brigade got hambow and warrior sustain nerfed over the past few patches, but it’s not enough. Now, you want to nerf the most mobile weaponset at the warrior’s disposal….. cuz you can’t deal ?

Did you even think about the fact that warriors NEED mobility since our primary mode of attack is… melee damage ?

i’ve played the melandru mobile strikes greatsword swordmain warrior with leek&poultry. And it’s a build that’s adapted to roaming and choosing your fights, not maximal damage. Because when you’re roaming, you HAVE to choose your fights, otherwise you’re just a free bag for the gankers. And even with anticondifood, get in range of a necro or engy with the 7 icenades and you’re in real trouble.

Could it be possible that it’s what you’re looking for ? free warriors bags with a side of QQ ? i betcha you’re the type that goes " GET BACK HERE YOU! me and my friends want to gank you!"

A) They are literally refereed to by devs as gap closers, not gap makers.

B) Anets Balance Philosophy and Professional opinions, posted by Jonathan Sharp list where warriors are intended to thrive and mobility is not one of them. To the contrary it list that “They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions” , mobile strikes and dogged march, that contradict this.

C) The profession with the highest HP pool, Highest defense availability (armor+toughness) is over reaching to also have the ability to escape so easily. If you pick your fights so well my friend, why do you feel you need such easy mobility and escape options? Your argument contradicts itself on this point.

Personally I have leveled all 8 professions to 80, primarily in WvW. I have my own experiences with my warrior in comparison to my other professions. I hardly call applied logic and common sense comparison “Q Q” as you put it. You warriors didn’t mind Q Q ing all over the forums to nerf eles mobility or engineers grenade damage. It is fine to complain about the other professions but the second it is your main you all of the sudden take issue and speak in derogatory terms.

Upon doing some testing with various builds today, I notices when fighting various drakes, that they were hitting me with “tail swipe” and knocking me down, yet it never once procced the protection. I allowed this skill to hit and knock me down 20+ times to test and retest this occurrence. Is this a known bug?

I do not feel utility skill are relevant because they take up a resource. In this case the resource is limited utility slots. I think the problem is with the great sword itself.

As I see it, a weapon skill that offers mobility of this nature simply should require a targeting component. Whirling attack requires a direction ground target, so I see no problem with it. I feel the problem lies in skills like “rush”. As I see it, the simple solution is to require weapon skills such as rush to have a target in range to function. If they target a creature outside of the scope of battle with another player for example, their mobility is limited, because they will be limited to in combat movement speed, and and limit the direction they can us it. As well, if there is not a creature outside of the scope of the player to player battle, they cannot use it.

DeadlySynz.3471:

I think stability should have it’s duration halved, cool down doubled, and remove group stability from the game.

Every battle starts seemingly the same, pop stability and watch everyone’s CC become useless. It’s a bit tiresome. Perhaps give a 50% reduction in armor for 10s after stability has worn off would be whats needed.

Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. You engage an enemy, knowing they are going to enter the initiatal battle with stability up, and you spam your CC, then are complaining that you waste your CC ???

So you explain how you and your friends/zerg are playing quit poorly, and are demanding we change the game to accommodate that? Now that is some backwards thinking. Intelligent players are using cripples, immobilize, and chill (all ignore stability) until we see that little emblem next to the enemies names drop, so we know when to use the other cc.

This isn’t a problem with stability, it is a problem with the player.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Chaith I love the ideas since the current GM traits are near useless.

How much time did you spend using them before you came to such an enlightened conclusion. Heck, we have skills now that are staples of builds that many called useless on release, because they hadn’t learned how to use them yet.

In different situations, different people want different conditions removed. As well, there are different skills and traits that remove specific conditions. What you feel should be priority may not even be remotely close to what the next guy feels should be prioritized. Why would I want the immobilize removed when I have another skill that specifically removes chill, immobilize, and cripple? Why would I want the confusion removed over the bleed, when I have a skill that specifically removed confusion?

Your entire ideology is flawed based on these facts.

LarzoSk.5412:

We want lower Ferocity ratio !

The second you said …“WE”…You lost all credibility. The fact that you even assume you can speak for the rest of us shows you think your special and your reasoning for what you want (IE your entire OP) are irrational in my opinion.

Particularly after there were thousands of post demanding this change and you refer to it as if they did it for other reasons. You are arguing out of an absolute knowledge of the situation, and it is not helping your expression of your view in the least.
(edit: somehow I hit quote on the wrong post at first.)