Guild Wars 2

As I see it, the OP doesn’t seem to be responding to the thought out comments on threads out there. It appears to me, that he is addressing the very very few, minority players who are unreasonable in their complaints. I notice the warrior defenders here have ignored the more thought out and reasonable complaints.

None of the his post address some of the trait combinations that are over powered when used with certain weapons and so on. It seems to me, that it would benefit some of the warrior community to branch out and level the other professions, because most of their statements are made based on the warrior in a vacuum, and appear to display little, to no knowledge, of how they compare to the other professions , when it comes to being able to accomplish various goals with in the game itself.

The issues players are actually complaining about, are not so much profession specific, but are actual only problematic in the context of certain builds. It is the builds that become common and thus, used by so many, that have the uninformed poster, speaking as if those build represent the warrior as a whole.

Yamsandjams.3267:

You could always take deployable turrets and throw them on top of the walls during seiges. It can allow you to put some pressure on arrow carts and such, although it will be minimal at best. If nothing else, it’ll just annoy the people up there. I suppose you could maybe combine it with APT to try and knock people off though.

Not to mention, the trait you use in a turret build, would greatly benefit the use of dropping supply crate on the wall too.

I have not tested it, but the gadgeteer trait could offer more benefit if you get aegis on both the planting of the mine and the self destruction of it. Similarly to how static discharge works with mine field on the tool belt.

umskiptar.5641:

I already have exotic armor. Knight’s Emblazoned set

What is bomb kit #2? I just see “Bomb Kit” in my menus…

It is Fire Bomb. The second weapons skill that appears when you arm the kit.

Tarsius.3170:

Except that Guardians are more like Mogwai – they have been cute from birth and everyone wants one in their family, but Anet are afraid to feed them any milk and cookies since beta incase they turn into Gremlins and eat everyone.

I loved that movie when I was younger and it first came out. I saw it recently and it looked so bad after all this time………………………..I wonder how many posters are of age enough to even get the reference?

I command on my engineer extremely often. We have one guildy who command on an ele very often, and another who commands regularly on a thief. We have another engineer on my server that commands regularly, and 2 rangers who do as well.

It is not uncommon to see other professions run as commanders. I think it is simply as other have said, easier with the survivability skills of a warrior and guardian, as well as beneficial to have their access to stability.

Yeah the new system is horrible. You need the traits more when leveling. I think you should get a point to start and once every level until 60. Allowing you to have all your traits for the last 20 levels.

Arantheal.7396:

Except that DT actually allows for turret placement all over the grid, regardless if its too steep for a player to stand on or not. Wherever you can put down an AoE to, you can place turrets as well…
But now I can hang my turrets mid-air, unreachable for melee only players, almost untargetable since that would require for really odd camera angles for ranged players, and even meteor shower safe since it can not hit them anymore without a solid surface close enough to them.
Also DT requires to be traited for. 2 points I can spend elsewhere now since the trait seems obsolete. Welp, waddaya think mods? Allowed or not allowed?

I just explained to you that a dev already posted here and stated that it is designed to work as it does. I love how instead of a thank you for your reply, you throw out a rebuke. Did you come from the warrior threads?

Sublimatio.6981:

You dont understand. It doesn’t matter what I want to do – skill description says clearly: click again the skill, and turret will spawn a smoke field. There are no additional requirements. So, this is a bug.

It is not a bug. It is a simply matter of the in game skill facts being inaccurate. This is why every update you read that they updated skill facts.

I remember in beta, we were discussing this, and the “deployable turrets” trait allowing you to place turrets in odd places. They stated that it was fully intentional, because the game system will only allow you to place them in locations that it is possible for another player to physically place themselves.

Ario.8964:

A thief running away from a group using CnD on a wall takes more skill than bringing a giant group to chase said thief…

What does the amount of friends or foes have to do with intentionally exploiting a glitch? What is worse, is that you appear to be advocating it, and you sure made no effort to condemn the practice.

-1 please. Where do I click for that?

killahmayne.9518:

I guess though if you consider the forums as a large portion of the “general community” and nevermind it is usually the same people complaining/arguing about Warrior mobility and never mind there are people who are against some of the suggestions being made then yes, the “general community” APPEARS to be behind it. Almost like the whole thing about conditions right?

That is odd. Because when I look at it, over months I have seen hundreds of various posters proclaiming the mobility is too much. And only the same 19 or less die hard warrior fans who contest it.

killahmayne.9518:

It also thematically makes sense that according to the vision of ANet who state that warriors are masters of weaponry that who rely on speed, strength and toughness to have the ability to cover distances. It also doesn’t make sense thematically that a scholarly profession has the athletic ability to cover great distances and have super high mobility either. We can argue thematically all day it doesn’t get anywhere.

Hmm, it seems you confuse speed with mobility. They have already stated in a video when discussing this, that it is speed of hand and referenced hundred blades.

You keep making statements that very specifically go against what they devs have posted videos of them saying. Why is that?

killahmayne.9518:

So wait, am I reading this right? When a skill causes an issue with a profession how it functions or what the skill does is irrelevant. And what is relevant is how it effects the profession.

Please read this again for a second because this makes zero sense.

How it functions absolutely does need to be taken into account. You need to take all things into account when analyzing a skill, what it does, what it is used for etc. For you to even begin to nerf a skill you need to know what it does because all of this ties into how it effects the profession.

I do not care what you feel “does need to be taken into account.” I was simply relaying what the devs said in one of the recent ready ups.

The point I think they were trying to make is that how a skill or trait functions in conjunction with the professions other skills is far more relavent then the skill or trait itself.

killahmayne.9518:

Why do people complain so much that classes can run away. Big deal. Almost any class can disengage if built for it somewhat, and pretty well. Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers, Elementalists, Engineers, Guardians, pretty much every class save a Necro. If they have to run away from you that means you’ve won.

Your missing the point. It is not whether a profession can simply escape either. It is how mobile it makes them in general to traverse a map. As well, on the issue of escape, how easily it can be done is relevant It makes thematically sense that professions with lower health/defense/regen would be capable to escape or reset a fight. It is not conducive to common sense or balance that a hard hitting, high defensem high armor, high regen build escape easier then those professions.

killahmayne.9518:

It just seems like people complaining about the mobility, namely the disengage potential is because they throw a tantrum or a child-fit whenever a Warrior escapes them. Most classes if they want to escape can do it fairly well.

To me, this is precisely what your doing. Simply because other players are discussing something that the generally community appear to be behind.

killahmayne.9518:

And hey, if Rush does require a target in the future, I don’t see why other skills shouldn’t receive the same treatment because many of them work functionally similar. And maybe we can all target bunnies. And also lose a way to strategically create gaps between the opponent and switch to perhaps a ranged weapon, further restricting the combat system.

Some other skills already do. Do you really want congruent treatment among similar abilities? If so, then rush needs to go on a longer cool down when it doesn’t connect, like RTL. As well it needs to root you in place like rocket boots. Require a targeting function like blink.

If your demanding that mobility skills need similar treatment, then your suggesting you feel it needs a nerf.

Cygnus.6903:

Make Rush invulnerable to movement conditions like RtL. Make it have an AoE instant hit skill at the end of it which increases the chances of hitting something incredibly. Nerf the hell out of FGS, which gives elementalists unparallelled mobility.

Then you can nerf Rush the same way.

Or just stop compairing two skills that are so different.

I feel you misunderstand entirely. The two skills do not have to be the same, or even similar, to be compared. All they have to so is cause a profession to have or not have something. What the community states as their reason to request a change to rush, is precisely the reason that the devs stated they nerfed RTL. When skills cause an issue with a profession, what the skills do or how they function is irrelevant. What is relavent, is how it effects the profession.

Paavotar.3971:

I hope with low mobility you two mean lower than it is at the moment. I don’t really want to see everyone and their cat start to kite warriors, especially with a lot of professions having instant cast teleports that you can use even when disabled.

I’m all for lowering warrior mobility as it can get rather high at the moment, but lowering it too much means warriors will become near useless on most 1 on 1 fights between warrior and ranged kiter.

I agree with you here. I have stated this repeatedly on the other threads, but as I see it, all they need to do is require a target that is in range, for the skill to function, and it will do its job well.

Harper.4173:

I may not have been asking for fixes for other profession’s skills but at least I’m not asking for nerfs while hiding behind the “I want the game to be balanced” routine.
It’s not the requests for a nerf that bother me, it’s the false pretenses of balance.

Seems to me that is the exact reason to ask for an over powered combination to be nerfed. At least I am basing my opinions on experience with a good amount of time in every profession, rather then to keep my main over powered.

Harper.4173:

Regarding your facts – you’ve got them wrong – warrior has highest health pool but tied with necro. Highest armor tied with guardian.

I believe your a bit confused my friend. We have 3 armor rating and 3 health pool rating. The warrior has the highest of both. It is reasonably simple, so I am unclear how you got confused.

Harper.4173:

I also don’t see why you can’t play your other classes – the feeling you get that warrior is better than the other professions might be just you. Have you considered you’re doing better as warrior because maybe you’re not playing your other professions properly?

I actually don’t do better as a warrior. Your making cleanly uninformed conclusion to state as much. I was simply conveying my experience in addition to the thousands of other posters making similar complaints.

Harper.4173:

You crack me up.
RTL is a skill that was nerfed in a completely different context. It also wasn’t bugged like Rush is. So after the nerf it still remained viable.

I am glad I crack you up. You certainly seem like you could use the joy.

I am not sure you actually have any idea what the context was that it was nerfed under. As well, it actually does very literally have some of the same bug issues as rush. I suspect you do not have the experience playing a elementalist to know, but that is just a suspicion. As well, my suggested nerf would keep it extremely viable.

Harper.4173:

And while I am not promoting its restoration I am trying to actively fight people who single out a class and demand nerfs but actually don’t really care about balance.

Based on what I have seen of your post. I call shenanigans. You seems to consistently be very big into promoting the warrior over all. That is not conducive to your claims here. You are displaying a very bias close mindedness, if you think the simple request to have rush require a target in range so that it is fully functional as a gap closer as intended and not exploited and an unnecessary mobility,

Harper.4173:

Again I ask you – if you go ahead with your “fix” – with the skill being as bugged as it is does it retain any value?

Certainly. It retains its value as a gap closer completely. Which is why it is called a gap closer and not a escape/mobility utility. Put it in a utility slot with a more limited resource such as rocket boots or blink, and then it is a different discussion. Other wise it uses the much more accessible weapons skill resource. There is a reason it is called a gap closer and on a weapon. Because it is intended to close gaps for that weapons use, not to run away the instant you realize you engaged a player with a higher skill level then your own.

You appear blindly biased to me, when you pretend it had any more or less bugs in its function the RTL, swoop, rocket boots, blink, or infiltrator’s arrow. Fix rocket boots so they so not lock my engineer in place at the end of use and I might care about your crying about rush bugs. Fix my thieves infiltrator’s arrow and mesmers blink so the slightest, even visually unnoticeable change in land elevation doesn’t make either of the fail to function completely and I might care about how you cry about rush. Fix swoop so my ranger doesn’t get a force stop on a blade of grass and I might care about how you cry about rush.

So yeah, stop demanding the one, on your favored professions is the only one that gets attention, and sure, I back you 100%. As of now it is the only one you seem to care about, which puts forward a very clear notion of your display of irrational bias.

TrOtskY.5927:

^PvP is not the discussion since are talking about mobility. This is a WvW issue

GS is certainly viable in WvW. The problem is that apparently some posters seem to have a lack of understanding of the term viable in the context of the game.

Malcastus.6240:

Yah, they have a bit too much mobility. The statement that fear, petrification, chill etc. affects it means nothing at all and is not usable as an argument. The strength runes were nerfed, yet it had a counter. Boon removal.

Most mobility skill in the entire game are effected by those factors. As well, most of them have similar problems as rush in functionality. Some mobility skills require ground targeting such as blink, that if the targeted area is raised or lowered in the least bit do not allow you to use the skill.

xbutcherx.3861:

You really need to play a warrior!

I think the actual problem is that players such as yourself need to actual try playing something other then warriors.

xbutcherx.3861:

• Very good damage output = very poor defense

Funny thing is this applies to every single profession, but the warriors poor defense in this case is better then the other 7 professions defense. If you played all of the profession, you would be aware of this.

xbutcherx.3861:

• Very good defence = very poor damage

Yet the warriors level of “good defense” is higher then every other professions of “good defense”. The problem gets worse as the warriors level of "poor damage is as good or better then most other professions level of “poor damage”. If you actually played and leveled the other professions you would have the experience to know this. Untill you do, you are simply making uninformed statements.

xbutcherx.3861:

• Very, very good mobility with skills which triple as gap-closers and gap-openers and raw landspeed skills = 3 mobility skills from S/S and GS limits the use of other weapons and sorry but S/S is mostly for bleed ( raw damage sucks ) and GS..well only for mobility.

Are you suggesting that GS does not have solid damage out put? Or that sword/shield does not let you swap to good defense and shield reflection when on a point?

Are you suggesting that a GS+S/S 0/6/4/0/4 build cannot kill other players? I can link multiple video evidence to counter your statement.

Harper.4173:

This is the funny thing about these threads : people keep asking “nerf warrior mobility” but nobody ever says " nerf warrior mobility and maybe fix the skills that have been broken for almost 2 years now".

Right, because you are here promoting the fixing of skills that have been broken for 2 years on other professions right? The problem it appears you have, is that a lot of players have leveled multiple professions, where you seem not to have. This limits your insight heavily and allows you to believe your profession is the only one with these issues.

What your missing is that every profession has skills they would love to use that have been broken since release only those professions do not have the highest health poll + the highest armor + the regen capability + the cleanse options of cleansing ire with non targeted F1 skills + good damage + ridiculous mobility all in the same build. I know because I have all of this in my build with GS+S/S or GS+S/WH with 0/6/4/0/4 build.

I simply want to enjoy the other 7 professions I leveled as well, without experience having taught me the warrior can do it all while the others cannot.

Harper.4173:

Because ultimately people don’t care about balance – they just want to see the thing they dislike nerfed so they can feel happy and good about themselves.

They’ve helped “balance” the game.

I disagree. I see a lot of players with multiple professions leveled who care about balance so that they do not feel underpowered when they want to play something else. Ultimately it is players such as yourself who are too warrior biased who seem to be so unreasonably against balance.

Harper.4173:

If Rush was changed today with a quick patch and the cooldown massively increased you wouldn’t see one of the people asking for its nerf going around "Hey – but you’ve now ruined it since the skill doesn’t work at all now – being usless as a mobility skill but also useless as a gap closer.
They’d happily go on their way to the thief forums or wherever else they like to complain.

I do not see you promoting the restoration of RTL. So your being highly hypocritical here.

Besides, not everyone thinks the CD on rush needs a big increase. Personally, I think it simply needs to require a target in range. this allows it to maintain all of its gap closing value, and limits is general mobility and escape value.

It says a lot about your perspective when you actually attempt to lay equivalent value on en elite skill compared to a weapon skill.

We are not asking for miracles, but you could at least be more reasonable then to compare a weapon skill to an elite skill as if everyone was just going to accept that.

I want one handed cross bows. Preferably more power oriented. I would love a direct damage oriented MH weapon to go with my shield.

Maskaganda.2043:

there’s nothing stopping you from going hybrid!

Yeah I like a hybrid build. I have really come to enjoy my full ascended celestial set in WvW.

More to the Op, pry bar is great with concussion bomb, static shot, and perplexity runes in a build.

I Play a warrior in PvP. As well I play every other profession there. Almost every top end player who plays a warrior, including myself, openly states that they feel the warrior is highly over tuned.

You are using a very odd argument to suggest a good player can beat a warrior. A good player can beat anyone on any profession that is not good as them.

I have leveled every profession in PvP to 80 now. My experience and those of other players i speak too completely disagree with you. I believe if you spent a significant amount of time actually experiencing the other profession, you would probably be aware of the actual issue.

bigmonto.4215:

And the argument regarding mesmer + thief + ele is to question the validity of complain. Base on what I gather people mostly have problem with warrior’s ability to disengage. There are at least 2 more powerful class with ease of disengage than a warrior, and at least 3 classes that can disengage easier. A focus on warrior does not make sense.

From what I see, and my own personal experience, people have an issue with the mobility being used for general travel, for disengaging , AND for an imbalance it causes that permits the highest health pool+highest defense+great condi clear+good damage+health regen+solid CC all in a single build.

A focus on warrior makes perfect sense. The fact of how many thousands of players have spoken out about this as a problem makes that evident.

This seems like a very poorly thought out idea by the OP. Clearly it is unreasonably bias toward the already over powered warrior, as self evident in the OPs statements.

How does this balance into two handed weapons?

With the fact that the engineer and elementalist are currently balanced against the current situation, and have both no weapons swap and very limited weapons to chose from, how do you propose to make changes to those two professions? The limited thought put into this idea, would completely leave those two professions with an even larger gap in capability then they already have from the warrior.

bigmonto.4215:

dancingmonkey.4902:

So you entire logic cycle here is that warriors mobility is not OP because the thiefs mobility + stealth is more OP ?

Got to love the logic of a warrior main defending the illogical to the death.

Lets face it logic is not exactly your strong suit. And no, I never said whether warrior’s current mobility is OPed or not. In fact I would agreed that a GS warrior’s mobility is better than some others. I did say GS as a whole is not OPed though.

My logic however is that if people are that focused on the ability for a class to disengage combat, they should more focus on thief and mesmer and possibly ele. Warrior is at best 4th out of 8, and he has to equips GS. Your focus on warrior seems illogical while there are much bigger issues in the wvw roaming mode.

Whether or not you personally feel the ability to disengage or display high mobility is an issue on other professions, with lower armor and health, does not justify the warriors having obvious over powering factors.

If you take issue with thieves, ele’s, or mesmers, then bring them up in the appropriate threads.

As i see it, the mobility is one of the factors that compounds with too many others, that cause the profession to be OP. It does not appear to me to be thematically in line with the profession. As well, it does not seem reasonable to me that the warrior should have access to such mobility in a build that offers as much as many many builds can do.

I feel that is a very bad idea. Making it such a low cast time removes counter play such as dodging and blocking on a skill that can do solid cleave damage, cleanse conditions, gives very long fury duration, and so on and so forth.

Seems lime perfect logic to me. The skills damage is almost irrelevant when you consider it can consistently cleanse conditions for me, the weapons other skills offer great mobility for me, and allow me to break soft CC. Dang right it might require nerf else where. We have to look at the skill as it fits into builds, not blindly demand a specific skill gets buffed based on the skill alone and untraited, in vacuum.

Kharr.5746:

It’s almost like you didn’t read anything I said nor do you understand how toughness works. Condi damage is the most effective type of damage vs high toughness builds since it ignores 100% of toughness. A Knights-geared player will always lose to a Rabid-geared player if they’re of equal skill.

Well, I will ignore your obvious, yet weak attempts at backhanded insults and challenge you to prove you “claims”. I will gladly take you on with a knights geared profession against your rabid geared one, in either your or my private PvP server.

Kharr.5746:

The problem is that the only counter to rabid-condi builds are condi builds since all that power/precision/crit damage is greatly reduced in effectiveness by the toughness of Rabid-condi builds.

This may be your perception. Oddly enough, the rest of us disprove this in game play on a daily bases. I am always left scratching my head at those of you who assume your own personal skill limitations, define balance for the game as a whole.

Kharr.5746:

In terms of people defending condis and saying “oh, if you nerf them, it will kill build diversity.” In PVE this might be true, and I think condis need a buff in PVE. Condis are definitely a bit less desirable in PVE. I’d like to see condi damage increased in PVE.

However, in PVP condis have been dominant for about a year now. If nearly everyone is running a condi build (bunker or dps) that’s not build diversity. Condis might be “close” to being balanced, but they’re definitely stronger than power damage. If we were seeing 50/50 split in terms of power and condi builds, sure, this thread would be pointless. I’d like to see that happen one day. Until that happens, condis are objectively OP…

What a strange thing to say in support of your argument. The two recent ToL showed that condi builds are the minority in high end competitive PvP. I mean, all of the video documentation I am seeing posted disagrees with your statements. Do you have any evidence to support your claims, or are you simply forcing your limited experience on us and assuming we will swallow it whole?

Kharr.5746:

Disclosure: I play all 8 classes with condi builds (most rabid, some carrion). This is not because I like condis, but because it’s much easier to win with them in the current balance of the game.

Edit: I also only use the bunny finisher, because I want my opponents to know that I’m a noob that only won because of condi spam.

AH, so you admit you are not familiar with how to play any of the professions outside of condition builds I see. To be honest, your making a lot of “claims” while offering no facts or evidence to support them. Seems to me that your are simply mis-informed. Low level solo queue does not represent the whole of PvP my friend.

NinjaEd.3946:

Traits like cleansing ire and empathic bond are an awful method to dealing with conditions, because they are almost essential by doing the job almost far to well to pass up. It isn’t really build diversity if there is a best in slot solution to deal with vulnerability. .

I can’t agree with that. There is a “best way” to do almost everything. How would you suggest making changes to the game that offer build diversity in which there is never a “best way” to accomplish something?

NinjaEd.3946:

Also few professions have effective means to deal with condition overload, and many professions lack sufficient condition clearing period. If I play a condi build and I see a thief or engineer or necro I focus them, because they don’t deal with them too well. There are a good chunk of builds that have well known vulnerabilities that even if they try to spec to deal with it, it just doesn’t quite work. Ever cc a thief and pour liquid conditions on them? It’s quite tasty.

Engineer I can agree with. To suggest that necros do not deal with conditions applied to them though, just doesn’t seem to make sense to me, considering how easy they can transfer them

Svarty.8019:

The fact that some classes can just spam out Conditions without having to decide which conditions they are is testament to the ill-thought out nature of said classes and this type of gameplay.

I question the competence of it’s creators.

Why do you make such an over the top effort to make your implication?

You go out of your way to use the word “spam” before every condition. Find me one power build in which direct damage cannot be spammed effortlessly???

It is a fact that conditions are precisely as counter playable as direct damage. If you care to list all of the condition damage skills that you feel do not have a tell to give them counter play, please do. For each one you list, I will list 2 direct damage skills with the same problem.

You post as if this thread is advising us of some ground breaking information that no one was aware of. In truth, some johnny come lately spams the forums one a week with the same mis-information the OP offered to this thread.

The facts are, direct damage builds can build with the same defense as condi builds and they actually put out more damage. Bothe damage types have similar counter play. Condi damage has the disadvantage of cleanses, while direct damage has the disadvantage of toughness. Condi damage has the disadvantage of taking exponentially longer then direct damage attacks to apply the exact same damage.

In you feel the order of skill use in a condi builds requires less thought then the order of skill use in direct damage build, then you are not all to skilled of a player yourself in my opinion.

Kharr.5746:

The problem with conditions has, and will always be, the fact that they bypass toughness, protection, and weakness. It’s possible to do very high condition damage while having very high toughness thanks to rabid stats.

This means that power builds are useless against you since toughness reduces power damage significantly, plus you can usually put up protection and/or weakness to reduce power damage further while your condition damage rips through the enemy like butter. The only counter to condition builds are condition builds due to the high toughness/weakness/protection uptime. This is why almost everyone in s/tpvp is playing rabid-condi builds right now.

And? It is possible to do equally or higher damage with high toughness due to knights gear stats.

babazhook.6805:

Sigil of nullification removes boons not sigil of Generosity.

A Thief with such a sigil can as example remove 4 boons in 21 seconds even without going the s/d route for larcenous strike.

Guardians/Thieves/Mesmers/Necroes are fully half the classes able to remove boons at a decent rate.

You forgot Engineer. I often run mine kit on mine. it is a 20 cool down AoE boon strip.

Andele.1306:

Shockwave.1230:

The OP’s issue still isn’t clear. How does point blank range make life blast harder to hit? Point blank gives you less time to dodge.

Life blast (like Necrotic grasp and a few other staff base animation skills) actually starts outside its own hitbox, thus a melee character inside your model can never be hit with it and a strafing 150 range character will cause it to cancel 4/5 times.
Surprisingly the underwater version of life blast applies to normal projectile rules of starting inside your hitbox.

Why on earth this topic was made in the “professional sub forums” is beyond me, but I had a similar problem with some skills. I learned it was an issue with some of my settings. I generally do not use the skills listed at close range. But you should still go into setting, and uncheck the “melee attack assist” in the bottom of the general options panel and see if that helps.

Sarrs.4831:

I am looking at this entirely through the lens of “Signet of the Locust has one of the worst active signet effects in the game; how can we fix this”. Because it does; it’s horrid. It’s a <1k heal per target on a 60 second cooldown. It has no place on the bar of even the most dedicated lifedrain build.

Unfortunately for you, that is not the topic of the thread. The topic as depicted in the OP and the title is whether or not it should have stability.

Sarrs.4831:

The other stunbreaks aren’t in a bad place- at least, as skills. They’re good skills. They might be bad stunbreaks, but they’re good skills, and they don’t need adjustment. The problem here is simple: signet of the locust sux

No. I said, I rather not have my 25% movement speed messed with then to risk losing it for a stability change.

I never suggested the other stun breakers are in a bad place as far as skills go. I simply suggested that they have a generally longer cool down then most stun breakers across the board. I feel they are better serving us at a kitten CD rather then 60s, and that the change would also help with the CC complaint.

I do find it comical that your demanding stability based on your complaint that you have trouble dealing with CC, then go on to state that your against lowering the professions stun breaker cool downs to assist with any difficulty dealing with CC. Personally, all that says to me is that your not looking for any real solution to the problem, but that you will avoid anything unless it is stability, which I do not find to be a ration argument at all.

As I see it, a player deserves to die quickly to condition damage when they refuse to use the tools available to them to counter them. You deserve to die quickly to direct damage builds when you claim you prefer to stack other stats, over taking toughness. You similarly deserve to die quickly to CC builds when you use the tools available to you to counter them.

To suggest you cannot counter something, simply because you refuse to build for it because you prefer to build in other ways is a horrible reason to demand changes to any given profession.

Sarrs.4831:

Necros don’t use multiple stunbreakers because you really just can’t fit them in.

Now I just don’t buy that. I do not say that purely in the context of necros either. I find that a weak reasoning, personally. Similarly, I have defended against cries to nerf necros condition out put when poster suggest they refuse to use more condition removals. As I see it, a player deserves to die quickly to condition damage when they refuse to use the tools available to them to counter them. You deserve to die quickly to direct damage builds when you claim you prefer to stack other stats, over taking toughness. You similarly deserve to die quickly to CC builds when you use the tools avaliable to you to counter them.

To suggest you cannot counter something, simply because you refuse to build for it because you prefer to build in other ways is a horrible reason to demand changes to any given profession.

Having said all that, I do think that when we look at all of the other professions as a while, all of the stun breakers on the necro seem to lean more towards a 6th cool down, and probably should be reduced to a 4s cool down. I know personally, I would much prefer that over losing something like my 25% movement rate increase.

I do not think they are boring to fight. Your opinion on that is subjective at best. I never have much trouble getting them off a point with my mesmer, necro, or power engie.

In my opinion, you need to practice more before making balance claims. I see myself and many many others deal with them on a daily basis. By the way, when did one individuals opinion of how fun his enemy is to fight, become relevant to a balance discussion?

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Just one question after going throuh this topic:
Why are there so many non necro’s trying to explain necro’s how to play the profession?
and telling then necro’s their profession has everything going for it.. yet they don’t play it.?

i’m quite confuzzled about that.

Many players have multiple profession. Now a days it is not uncommon for players, such as my self to have leveled all 8 professions to 80. It seems to me it is generally the players who only play necros exclusively, that are demanding stability. The rest of us are suggesting an alternative, such as a stun breaker or a similar function to one of the skills they are stating other professions have, that they are using to justify as a reason for stability. It seems this posters have decided they will settle for nothing short of stability though. Which some what nullifies there argument if you ask me.

Gyler.8150:

Xyonon.3987:

Since I just got it ready – I’m gonna leave this here:

(Rozbuska.5263)

How many might stacks / vuln was this with? banners and such?

Could probably have hit a bit harder tossing grenades rather than the bombs.

Bombs solidly out damage grenades.

Form.8741:

Defense and healing in combination should never be so high that it negates damage by so much that a bunker can never die 1v1.

It isn’t. Mater of fact, it isn’t even close. There are one of three thing going on here. Either you being dishonest and over exaggerating, your running a terrible build for damage output, or your not a very skilled player yet.

Form.8741:

No, several professions can make a bunker won’t die to TWO people for a very long time (minutes).

You seem a bit confused here. You assume because you and the player of your choice cannot kill another player in under 60s, that the rest of us have this problem. That is not the case. The problem is, instead of asking for advice, your making a sturdy complaint based on limited experience as if you demand Anet to change the game to compensate for where you may or may not lack.

Form.8741:

Bunkers are OP in PvP and need to be removed. They serve no purpose except to make complete imbalance and require NO skill whatsoever to autowin. If I were to use a bunk engineer and squat on a single point, I would win at least 7 out of every 10 games without doing ANYTHING else.

Not only are they not OP. They do serve a purpose. As well, they require quit a bit of skill.

As to your claim about yourself on a bunker engineer. I challenge you to prove it. I will play the profession of your choice. You make your bunker engineer. We will fight. We will record it. We will post the video here. I have played many hours on each profession, and my experience contradicts yours. I am not suggesting bunkers are not hard to kill. But they are no where near impossible.

OP, you are just running into the wrong people, or you simply need to educate them. I cannot tell you how many players

I have met that had no idea we have:

• Water fields.

• AoE condition cleanse

• Multiple blast finisher

• The ability to stack stealth with smoke field plus blast finishers

• The damage output that we do. Particular AoE damage.

• AoE stability.

• Our ability to stack so much might.

• The ability to reflect projectiles.

And the list goes on and on. Sometimes you just have to educate a guild or group that is unfamiliar with the profession.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

Hambow often runs signet of rage. Warriors easy access to swiftness from build to build is undeniable.

Often does not mean always.

As well, access to swiftness means little in my opinion. Access to swiftness, particularly in WvW, is vast. In my experience, movement skills are more defining for mobility.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

Yes, admittedly, when it comes to actually balancing and solving issues specific skills and traits need to be taken into account. But, saying that warriors are generally fast doesn’t make someone too general or wrong, it’s simply a statement to the current popular state of the game.

Actually, it quit literally does. In the world as a whole, it is bad business to generalize anyone or any player, based on what some, many, or few, can or cannot do.

Generalizing everyone based on what you think is popular is a problem. And yes, saying warriors are generally fast does make you wrong. Because they are not. Only warriors with specific builds are fast. Particularly when most believe hambow is the “general” build, then demand we are supposed to “generally” accept them as fast at your word alone. Hambow builds are not fast. Sword/Greatsword is. Your own explanation for your hypothesis, disproves itself.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Xaylin.1860:

And even if you had the Stability, you’d still be spiked. You’re not being spiked because of your lacking access to Stability. Necromancers get spiked because of their capabilities to cover whole cap points with debuffs and conditions.

Necros would get spiked regardless of stability, but not for the reason you state. They get spiked because they utterly lack the active defenses to do anything about it, making it an easy kill and a 4v5 until the necro respawns and hauls his slow butt back. The fact that necros are dangerous if ignored is very minor in comparison (as most people are rather dangerous if ignored).

No, no that is never said. I have never once heard in mumble or TS, “lets get the necro guys. Because he cannot defend himself”…..Mostly because everyone know that is not true. I pi up on JQ and command a lot. I have spent the majority of my time pinned up on my D/D power well necro or my mine/elixir infused bomb engineer. You sem to have no scope for why the rest of the game would react as they do. I know we say slap the necros, because generally all of ours run with boon stripping corrupting wells, and unblock able marks. Just like our engineers lay out just as many water fields as our eles. 5 boons stripped with mines.

Trust me, is you think enemies come at you because they think your any easy kill, then it is your misconceptions based an your own insecurities in your play or something, because it sure isn’t for the reason your claiming. They corrupt everything, and spread conditions to easy.

spoj.9672:

Yeah I know that. I still think rabid and carrion do way too much for the amount of defence they have. People would agree with this statement when talking about Dire, so why not rabid/carrion?

Not to mention almost all condi builds are ranged. Which reduces the risk even further. Its the main reason i hate it so much. Its not challenging at all to play yet it achieves such strong results in so many situations.

Wait, what?
Even though we have all of the previous threads showing knights gear out damages rabid gear, yet they have the same defensive stats? The fact that it has been shown that soldiers gear will out damage dire gear? Valkyrie out damages carrions.

Do you have any videos of your test you did with all of those gear sets in comparison test? How many professions did you test them on? I did mine on my mesmer, warrior, engineer, necro, I didn’t bother with my ranger, ele, thief, or guardian. As the later four, I have no desire to run condition builds. (yes I have leveled all to 80 in almost exclsively PvP and WvW)

spoj.9672:

Pretty sure condi engis use nades?

Grenades only have 2 that do condition damage out of the 6 grenade skills. Shrapnel grenade does 12 of bleeding and Poison grenade does 3s of poison. The other tool belt and geenade are direct damage only, flash grenade is a blind and freeze grenade is 2s of chill. Tell me this though. If you have to ask what skills a profession has that apply damage conditions, how do you feel you have a place to declare to us that they are OP?

So why do you want to have a discussion on the “profession balance” sub forum and speak “generally” when it is counter productive to speaking about the actual facts of the matter, and specify build types? I am simply suggesting we make the discussion a little more specific so that it is true to form, yet to me, your only arguing to keep it unnecessarily broad, thus making it virtually unproductive to even discuss.

That is the downfall of 90% of the threads here. Instead of discussing a specific problem, so many make broad, such and such profession, is OP at this or that. When in truth the problem is a specific set up, trait combination, weapon set, or weapon set plus traits and so on.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

coglin.1867:

I think the list is not nearly as relevant as builds are. If your running a mobility build, your mor likely to get away, if your not, then you won’t.

For example, there is no way in the world a hambow warrior gets away from me. A sword/warhorn + greatsword warrior on the other hand will get away.

Well, some classes don’t have very viable mobility builds, and some classes mechanics make escaping easier.

Well yes, some professions have “access” to more mobility then others. I am only pointing out that those skills, abilities, or mechanics vary in large amounts from build to build. I dislike when people generalize a profession as a whole, instead of discussing builds or build types.

As I said
For example, there is no way in the world a hambow warrior gets away from me. A sword/warhorn + greatsword warrior on the other hand will get away.

My point being is that build types are more relevant to this, and most over generalized professional discussion on the forums as whole. Warriors do not out run engineers. sword/warhorn + greatsword warriors out run bunker engineers. Gadget/speedy kit engineers out run hambow warriors. See what I am getting at?

I think the list is not nearly as relevant as builds are. If your running a mobility build, your mor likely to get away, if your not, then you won’t.

For example, there is no way in the world a hambow warrior gets away from me. A sword/warhorn + greatsword warrior on the other hand will get away.

alamore.1974:

Xaylin i do agree with sone points but like a siad.necros.are.ment to.sit there and take it.

No they are not. Nothing about any profession in this game promotes standing there and taking it. If you are playing in that fashion or with that in mind, you do not need more stability. You need more skill. I will quote your previous post on this one, “lol get better.”

alamore.1974:

Myabe 5s is to much maybe it just needs to be 3s.

Perfect. Foot in the Grave is 3s stability. So you clearly agree all is well, because the profession has exactly what you want available to it already.

alamore.1974:

Idk im no expert all i know is stability fits better then active dodges and i honestly dont want to see any more teleports added to necros that leave stability or inv.

You don’t want more teleports? Then why do you swear up in down in previous post, that other professions having teleports, justifies your main profession for stability? By your own argument, the fact that you have them is in itself a reason you do nto need stability.

alamore.1974:

Your only other option would be some sort of armor that absorbs damage.

Ahh, you mean, if they did something like put in a trait that gave protection with wells? I agree, that would be brilliant. They should try that some time.

alamore.1974:

Stab to me makes sense on the SoL because its a speed boost, you loose the speed to become rooted for a couple secs

Are you suggesting trading movement for mobilize, in order to gain a few seconds of stability?

alamore.1974:

Necros also dont have much stunn breakers

They have as many as any other profession. This is what was being refereed to earlier. Clearly you do not want to have an honest discussion, nor will you even be honest with yourself. You hit this wall about stability, and no rational or logic will change your demand for it, even if you make arguments that counter your own interest on the topic

Rym.1469:

coglin.1867:

I would love to out play Unblockable necro marks.

Hmm… You know that Marks are blockable? To make them unblockable you have to put 4 in Death Magic and almost nbody does that

Umm, yes I did know that. Personally I have leveled all 8 professions in WvW, and I have participated in discussions on the topic of unblockable, in both the profession balance and the necromancer sub forums.

I thought it was kind of over obvious that I know marks can be made unblockable, seeing as how i stated it specifically. I was using it as a relative comparison to this trait for example. As mentioned already, to clarify the point I was trying to make, is that this is also a 4 trait point investment. As well, there is a fair amount of damage that comes from necro proc traits that cannot be avoided by blocking because of this trait. Personally, I have no problem with that trait, but i think it is relative to the conversation.

Similarly, I see no particularly problem with IP given the context the devs themselves have stated it exist for. Personally, I never use it (I do not generally play engineer in sPvP, but I play engineer in vast amounts in WvW) as I have more burning then I need generally out of the 7s out of rocket kick and 3s-12s out of fire bomb. I mention up to 12s because if I can keep a player in it for its opening explosion and the 3 tics after, it is 12s of burning. This can be maximized with cripples , immobilizes, and hard CC with my build.

My point is, we can make due with out it because we have multiple access to burns in skill native to the profession. Given that fact combined with the context that the devs previously explained it exists for, I see no reason what so ever to change it at all.

Chaith.8256:

coglin.1867:

Chaith, I feel part of your problem here, is that you are automatically assuming that every posters comments refer exclusively to specific situations in sPvP. I saw nothing in the title or the OP that specifies this discussion is based on sPvP. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I was not being exclusive to a specific game mode in my comments.

I would appreciate it if you would not take my statements out of context and apply it to only one specific situation, and presume to declare my opinion as discount able, simply because you only see things in terms of sPvP.

Why would the way Incendiary Powder is procced matter in any non player vs. player scenario?

it wouldn’t matter. No one suggested it did. I simply stated that my previous post was in context of roaming in WvW., havoc group clashes, etc.

I love how after I asked you politely, you continue to question me for having an opinion, and show absolutely no effort or concern for making rude assumptions. How considerate of you.

Like it or not, there are reasons for concern that players may have, outside the scope of sPvP. WvW is a player vs. player game mode, and there are many situations in which skilled game play comes into effect. Which is precisely the scope of my comments.