Guild Wars 2

StormWolf.7645:

Allied Shade.8409:

Dear Kain,

Sorry that we had to over run you, but somehow you all gave up after we breaked your outer gate at bay, and no, we did not outnumbered you at that part, you even grabbed some land during that fight.

Your Sincerely,

Devona

It’s that thing called “Sleeping” or “Working”. Hope you enjoyed beating up doors. I imagine they killed half your zergs while the few people went and took some undefended things because they stood no chance against your Zergs.(Make the claim you want of not outnumbering people, considering the time you took the stuff, there’s no one on Kaineng then.)

lol.. Me and an Envy mesmer got about 20 kills each harrassing them from behind during that assault. Was fun dodging Kains and downing Dev’s..

HS spammers are the best.. I laugh so hard when I’m on Ele and immobile them and they just stay in place HS over and over.. Or on my thief I blinding powder right as they use th first HS and they just go leaping 5 times across the map behind me..

What a creative way to post a Thief QQ thread, props OP.

Adding names I’m all for. The /yell not so much. When we had the option to get names from the /report function it was great as I made many friends on opposing servers and got to setup lots of fun duels and stuff.

Habib Loew.6239:

Oozo.7856:

Habib,

How should we classify people who are using teleport/flying hacks? There doesn’t seem to be a proper classification to report them under.

For now you can mark them as “Scamming”. Our security folks assure me they’ll see the report regardless of how it’s marked. Still, we should have an appropriate option in that list. I’ll raise the issue with the appropriate folks about getting an “Exploiting” option added.

I would love to see a text box so we can describe what we are reporting. Also the ‘send report with screenshot’ from bug report feature added.

KwayZee.5742:

Chris when you were on DR you were a joke. Now that you’re on Ferg you’re even more of a joke. We specifically tell our scaled up 80s to murder you while our regular 80s take out your crew.

On DR I have to admit Chris annoyed me quite a bit. But since he moved to Ferg he has grown by leaps and bounds as a commander, and is shown nothing but respect and love from everyone on the server.

—And now just some random rambling in response to a lot of different posts in this topic I’m not going to take the time to quote.

I’m not going to knock the Devona zergs because I love the oodles of lootbags. My WvW income probably tripled since coming to Ferg, it’s great.

As much as I think PRO is arrogant, yet not great PvP’ers. They do at least try to play the objectives which is the way they want to WvW and is their prerogative.

I honestly don’t care who wins or loses the matchup and pretty much only care about the PvP. But I have no less respect for people who are focused on just objectives, as that’s part of the functionality of WvW.. Before you ask the reason I don’t play sPvP instead is because I love the large scale of WvW. Nothing to me is more fun then being on the outnumbered side of the 5v15. I like the unpredictability of when I’m going to run into enemies or being in a battle and suddenly having to run because a 1v3 turned into 1v20. Amongst many other things that WvW offers, that sPvP doesn’t.

That doesn’t mean I won’t jump in on an assault.. Or be the guy solo trying to defend an objective.. Or even sometimes spend hours guarding a keep relaying info to my team and such. It just means the open world PvP part is the most fun part for me.

I think some people need to remember this is just a game, and convert their hate into a more jesting yet competitive attitude. I may Tbag PRO’s and throw rams on them etc, but it’s just in fun, at the end of the day I don’t know you and it doesn’t matter who you are.

Oozo.7856:

Hackers exist on all sides. And that isn’t 20 people. That’s just a minion necro and a couple of mesmers.

You might notice that every “defender” has a different guild tag and none of them say “beast”.

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

dank.3680:

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Loading.4503:

I agree with what dank said about dodging. A lot of people dodge right away when a p/d go stealth, I think it’s habit from fighting backstab thieves, but a good p/d usually waits for a good time before he uses sneak attack it also gives them time to regen initiative and heal. And about staying with the group, I agree halfway. From my experience when someone starts running away and I chase to try and down them, that’s a bad move if the group is fairly large, cause ill have my back to everyone else and start eatting damage pretty hard.

Aside from that, have you tried playing a p/d thief before, if not try it sometimes, you’ll have a better feel for how a thief moves when using stealth. I gotta say most of the time when I’m stealthed people do things that just really don’t make sense like eles using aoe skills miles away and I’m still standing next to them , never took 1 step and thinking , really even if I wanted to be there at that spot i couldn’t move 3849494 mph across the map to where your aoeing

Are you playing thief ? If its true just start playing ranger or different char.

My first 80 was a ranger and played it for about 5k kills. Then I made a mesmer and played it for about 10kish kills. Then I made an thief and then ele (all 80’s). The majority of my playtime is between the ele and thief now because I find them the most fun. I’ve played just about every thief build out there.

That said I can handle thieves from any build with any of my classes, unless they just outplay me.

I totally agree with everything loading said..

OK make video with this ranger who get 5k frags in 1 month Im w8 for your link. Show me how easy you kill meny thiefs.

I would love to be able to make vids if my PC could handle it believe me.. I have 21,789 total wvw kills at this moment by the by.

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Loading.4503:

I agree with what dank said about dodging. A lot of people dodge right away when a p/d go stealth, I think it’s habit from fighting backstab thieves, but a good p/d usually waits for a good time before he uses sneak attack it also gives them time to regen initiative and heal. And about staying with the group, I agree halfway. From my experience when someone starts running away and I chase to try and down them, that’s a bad move if the group is fairly large, cause ill have my back to everyone else and start eatting damage pretty hard.

Aside from that, have you tried playing a p/d thief before, if not try it sometimes, you’ll have a better feel for how a thief moves when using stealth. I gotta say most of the time when I’m stealthed people do things that just really don’t make sense like eles using aoe skills miles away and I’m still standing next to them , never took 1 step and thinking , really even if I wanted to be there at that spot i couldn’t move 3849494 mph across the map to where your aoeing

Are you playing thief ? If its true just start playing ranger or different char.

My first 80 was a ranger and played it for about 5k kills. Then I made a mesmer and played it for about 10kish kills. Then I made an thief and then ele (all 80’s). The majority of my playtime is between the ele and thief now because I find them the most fun. I’ve played just about every thief build out there.

That said I can handle thieves from any build with any of my classes, unless they just outplay me.

I totally agree with everything loading said..

Einzelganger.4152:

Again people, auto shot/vital shot ALONE is not the gameplay mechanic at fault here. Extremely High condition damage on the bleeds of the auto attack, vital shot, is the source of my concern. Couple that with stealth and culling and you have me, a complete nightmare . To anyone who simply thinks I think auto shot/ vital shot is the mechanic solely at fault obviously is not reading and might want to look at the depth of what I am talking about. It is the combination of ‘A’=autoshot (zero initiative used), ‘B’=high condition/bleeds (on something as silly as an autoshot) and ‘C’=stealth by cloak and dagger or various other stealthing utilities/heal/steal. Not just ‘A’ alone by itself.
If anyone has some insight that might enlighten me in regards to my concern here, please with all do respect, share your thoughts in a mature manner. I appreciate any opinions that will make me rethink what I am talking about.
To those that are calling this a troll thread or simply cannot comprehend what I am saying because they choose not to look at all of the variables involved that make this particular build nearly undefeatable, then I have nothing else to say to you.

With 2000 condition damage stat (which takes a lot to get that including full carrion armor, foods, secondary nourishment, runes AND might stacks).. My bleeds tick for something like 141. I hardly call that extremely high condition damage. Vital shot alone is not enough to kill anyone except upleveled undergeared players. This is the slowest killing setup a thief has and is only viable because of the survivability if played right.

There are tons of counters to it including classes like necro and mesmer which can put the bleeds back on you. Warriors, guardians, mesmers, engineers, ele’s can all reflect your shots back at you. And there is about a million and one ways to remove conditions in this game, even some where you can remove them on all players around you.

I don’t think most of the anger with this build is caused by people dying fast, but due to it being harder to kill the thief as most ppl expect a thief to die quickly when they catch them. I’m sorry but we aren’t all going to play LOLGLASS builds.

Oh btw you can almost always just run from a p/d condition thief if your build isnt designed to counter it. Most won’t run Signet of Shadows nor CC’s.

Docmandu.2914:

Typical reply.. but the issue is the culling makes it so you can’t target the thief, not even with Target Nearest Enemy… only thing that will hit a culled thief (or any class with stealth) is AOE damage.

That is not true at all, while you may not see them right away you definitely CAN target them. As a thief I fight thieves all the time too since there are so many usually. I don’t have a problem targeting them because I’m good at predicting which direction they will be in and just spam my target key. Knowing the timing of stealth helps as well since you can predict when they will attack.

You may not realize it but you have to be facing in the general direction of a target to pick them up with the target nearest enemy key.

Ravien.4823:

I think it might be because you have a projectile (in this case, bullet) en-route to the target before you become stealthed, then the bullet hits the target while you are stealthed, and since you just dealt damage to an enemy while stealthed, you become revealed. Maybe.
.

As a p/d thief I am almost positive this is the case. And it happens a lot and really sucks because if I’m using my utility to stealth it means it’s an emergency stealth most of the time and this causing me to insta-reveal sucks.

Bananasmile.4126:

Be mobile, when he reappears, stun/root, he will disappear again, AOE where he disappeared. GG. Full stealth thieves lacks stun breakers, so if you manage to stun them, then more often than not, they will remain stunned in place for the duration (even if he disappeared), without some kind of stun/root, you’ll have to hit air and hope you hit him.

I wouldn’t count on full stealth thieves lacking stun breaks. I run with a shadow step utility + 30 in shadow arts line including removing 2 conditions every time I stealth. Couple that with the fact I have 19.5k hp and 2600 armor without my gear even done, one aoe burst likely won’t affect me that much as I can keep stealthing if I need to while I regen.

The best CC’s against thieves are really knockdowns and knockbacks. Also avoiding CND is the most important thing for a stealther thief. I have 2 ultities to stealth with + my heal, but if I’m missing CND more then once or twice those are going to be used up quickly.

I find condition engi’s as one of the best counters to my build as they can stack so many conditions so many times it forces me to keep stealthing and stay stealth for its duration to get rid of them.

I’m running p/d atm if that wasn’t clear.

Glass backstabbers are the ones who are likely to be lacking stunbreakers fyi.

Keeping mobile was good advice btw.

Oh I wanted to add one mistake I see a ton of players make against me. When I go stealth they start randomly dodge rolling. Well if my sneak attack is avoided it doesn’t reveal me and I can try again, so they waste all their dodges and I get a free full damage sneak attack. Stay mobile once they stealth and be ready to dodge as soon as you start getting hit, or be ready with a stun break if they are using stuns.

Another thing, most times in a 1vx fight like this the thief (like me) will pick and focus on a certain target. If you are the one getting focused, for god’s sake try to stay near as many allies as you can.

Clark Skinner.4902:

Even if this group of 7, was entirely lv 30, which is not at all likely. They should have been more than enough to take out a single lv 80 player. Let alone with an experienced lv 80 helping them. Some were in a guild. A guild who WvW together is not likely a bunch of lv 30s who have never done WvW before, and they had more members around the map as well, it’s a pretty big guild on our server.

There were people who started and though the thief died and they left while more came in to try to kill the thief when they saw him surrounded by our group. Is it likely that none of those people were better than totally useless?

Something I just remembered. We had him downed for a moment but then he popped back up and had no problems continuing the fight for quite a while. There was definitely no time to heal, and the only other way I know of to get back up is to kill something while downed. Is this a thief down skill?

Well it can depend on the classes. Some classes aren’t very useful against this type of thief and some are quite hard counters to this type of trolling.

I can troll a group of 8 all day if they are the right class mix and/or not very experienced. But all it takes is one well played guardian or mesmer or another good thief etc in the group to make it 10x harder.

The biggest thing to focus on is CC CC CC CC CC. Some thieves will have half decent condition removal / stun breaking but most don’t. But even with all the removals in the world the amount of CC a group of 8 can dish out will have any thief running for the hills if done right.

Kurow.6973:

Shady C.5041:

Oh my god, every time I see you left a reply, I actually sigh IRL.

Everyone else here sees you for your colors, so I’m outta here. Get your last word, I don’t care.

But yeah, go ahead and “expose my assumptions” if you want.

Are you a victim of panic attacks? Too much sighing is a good sign of it. I’d recommend you consult your health professional.

Shrack.8013:

I don’t see how any thief can sit here and argue that Steal is a bad class only skill… it gives you access to some of the best skills in the game (hello Whirling Axe and Consume Plasma). Of course I am talking pvp here. You can’t just sit here and be all “oh well it’s basically just a shadowstep!!!!111” because it isn’t. Depending on the situation, it gives you some pretty overpowered options to choose from for that class skill. Likewise it allows you to use 2 stolen skills by saving one from a previous fight.

Now what I won’t argue about is the fact that the thief class itself is just relatively boring. The steal mechanic itself is BORING. It really feels like they didn’t know what to do for f1 skills for the class (outside of the initiative system) so they just threw something in. And honestly, the whole thief class design as a whole is a bit lacking.

Throw Gunk is my favourite!

Being that your previous posts are dripping with sarcasm, I’m guessing this is too. I will just say throw gunk is very powerful, and actually IS my favorite steal package.

Khanswrath.1032:

dank.3680:

Max Castle.6173:

Well I wasn’t ready to give up on taking that camp. But you left. If someone tried to build siege I never saw it. Where exactly was it? The only siege that engagement had that I saw were the failed siege builds by you in the tunnel, your two ballista up front near the main entrance to the camp, and 2 (maybe 3) of your arrow carts down by the guards. But it is of little consequence. I got the camp. I was attempting to give out some kudos for that limited engagement, but like most of the storytellers here, your embellishments have muddied the point.

I guess nothing is able to happen while you are running back from the waypoint after dying?

How many Engineers do you have in guild dank?? I believe the first day I saw your guild in EB one of them tore me apart. I was a sad immobilized panda

I think only one guy that plays engi a lot. He’s really good but didn’t come to Ferg with us and has been in FOTM mode since it came out.

Max Castle.6173:

Well I wasn’t ready to give up on taking that camp. But you left. If someone tried to build siege I never saw it. Where exactly was it? The only siege that engagement had that I saw were the failed siege builds by you in the tunnel, your two ballista up front near the main entrance to the camp, and 2 (maybe 3) of your arrow carts down by the guards. But it is of little consequence. I got the camp. I was attempting to give out some kudos for that limited engagement, but like most of the storytellers here, your embellishments have muddied the point.

I guess nothing is able to happen while you are running back from the waypoint after dying?

Khanswrath.1032:

<————is winning at winning. Just last night jumped into Ferg’s BL and flame rammed down a wall, wasn’t my fault 30 other people showed up to cheer me on. Watched 11 Golems die at a Hills gate so I decided to go on a vicious NPC murdering rampage. Thief is pretty much OP as can be, cause I was one shottin them Bunnies like a bawse. There was however one very sneaky Raccoon whom I had to use all my CD’s on and if it weren’t for stealth he prolly would have had me. Got bored and went to LA where I got a message from a guildmate to help him make tons of gold WHICH WE DID.

You flame rammed a wall? Teach me that trick please.

swinsk.6410:

So, how do I know what is a combo field?

If I find this mysterious combo field and I hit the 2 or 3 for HS or DB, do I automatically do a finisher?

I’m pretty sure I’ve spammed HS or DB in some friendly AOE in all the hours I’ve played and I’ve never seen my thief do anything special.

Either play other classes or look at the wiki for which skills are combo fields.

Some common ones are feedback or nullfield from mesmer, heartseeker through it for chaos armor, use shortbow cluster bomb for aoe chaos armor or deathblossom/dagger storm for chaos bolts. P/d auto attack and sneak attack are also projectile finishers.

Another obvious one to do the same thing in is Ele’s fire ring. HS for fire shield, cluster bomb for aoe might, whirl finishers for fire bolts.

You have some utilities with combo fields you can utilize for stealth and aoe stealth.

You can also steal from an engineer for throw gunk which is an etheral field and can be treated the same as the mesmer fields.

Just some examples there are tons more.

Zizanzi.4678:

Laiboch.4380:

I think its awesome that Ferg and Kain love posting video’s of their victories. I am waiting for them to post a video where their combined scores beat DR’s. My only real question is With all the l33t skill Ferg and Kain have why are you losing? Not just losing, but less than half our score combined.

Free lesson. Win first brag later.

Like I have said before, " LMAO, caring about who wins on a bottom tier server set". Give me a break. Killing you is more fun then an artificial victory worth nothing. Enjoy your move up. /wave

BTW Devonas has an excellent small man and we love those guys for being very good and they post their videos too (props to AD for having some). Would love to see more COMPETATIVE groups of small man out in WvWvW.

Stylii Elementalist (Staff)
Shoulda Rolled Kaineng (NoQQ) Leader

AD is pretty fun to fight.. To the AD Engi I dueled today behind greenvale I really wish you wouldn’t have kept running into the supply camp to hide with NPC’s every time you almost lost. I would have let you get up had I downed you rather then stomp. I show that kind of courtesy in a great duel. None the less was a fun fight and one of the most difficult I’ve had with an Engi. (I was the p/d thief btw).

Creslin.1758:

dank.3680:

Kardiamond.6952:

Steal is an incredible mecanism.

Creslin, about using the F1-F4, It would be cool yeah, but so much work and balancing. 3 more abilities is huge, 3 more per steal is very huge.

Steal give thief an unique abilities depending of the foes they are fighting. It’s awesome.

You also have Stealth attack, that is also unique to thief. And initiative. That’s a lot of class specific abilities.

Just take Necro as an exemple. They only have the same Death Shroud, all the time. The same 4 situational abilities. Nothing else.

:)

He’s saying you would have the option from 4 skills depending on the class you stole from, but you would only be able to use one of them and all would reset.

I think it’s a pretty nifty idea myself.

Yah, that’s what I mean, you just get to use one ability but you get to pick. I personally think it would make steal much more “fun” and actually skill-based because it would involve more planning.

Like, if you steal from a “scholar” class, you KNOW you will get a staff, and you KNOW what 4 abilities you can choose from. If you steal from a ranger or warrior, you KNOW you will get an axe and what 4 abilities…see what I mean?

Then you can actually plan…

“Okay, steal from Ele, put down lava font with F2 stolen staff ability, heartseeker through it for fire aura…”

“Or wait…should I steal from Guardian, get shield, use F3 shield to reflect projectiles while I DPS nearby Mesmer…”

Right now, I feel like steal nearly feels random. Sometimes the item you get it amazingly useful…sometimes it is useless. But in either case, you will don’t have much of a tactical choice.

There is only one choice for me as p/d thief. Seek and steal the engineer! Throw gunk is too epic.

Kardiamond.6952:

Steal is an incredible mecanism.

Creslin, about using the F1-F4, It would be cool yeah, but so much work and balancing. 3 more abilities is huge, 3 more per steal is very huge.

Steal give thief an unique abilities depending of the foes they are fighting. It’s awesome.

You also have Stealth attack, that is also unique to thief. And initiative. That’s a lot of class specific abilities.

Just take Necro as an exemple. They only have the same Death Shroud, all the time. The same 4 situational abilities. Nothing else.

:)

He’s saying you would have the option from 4 skills depending on the class you stole from, but you would only be able to use one of them and all would reset.

I think it’s a pretty nifty idea myself.

I guess nobody noticed but you can now use dodge rolls during the whirling axe attack without canceling it. This actually makes it viable to use again, especially if your getting swift/might and dropping caltrops on your dodge rolls.

Minibiskit.6158:

I love the way blind works at the moment. I use a stealth build with the trait that causes aoe blind on stealth. Since I use d/d, I cause an aoe blind about every 4 sec with cloak and dagger, and an emergency blind with signet of shadows. The effect reminds me of my guardian’s aegis (blocks the next incoming attack), but blind is put on your enemies instead. This means that aoe blinds can be much more reliable mitigation if all mobs are attacking a single person.

This kind of support in a group usually goes unnoticed, so be sure to remind your guardian tanks that you are keeping that crowd of enemies blinded—they might be able to take more offensive utilities to keep control over mobs.

This. Blind is perfectly fine the way it is. And it does take skill to use at the right time, and I totally agree to it being basically the same as Aegis except Aegis usually has longer duration and blocks from any source. Though nobody has the access to spam-able Aegis to the extent Thieves can spam blind.

With your proposal I can see it being completely broken. Lets take this scenario.
Say a Thief has the blind on stealth trait. He steal-cnd-blinding powder-shadow signet-hide in shadows-refuge chains. With a 1.5 second duration per stack, you have now 9 seconds of not being able to land any attack? This is not the only example that could be used to stack a broken amount of blind with your idea.

If it had a cap on the other hand, it would be less useful then it is now..

I love blind how it works, and use it quite a bit. It’s great in so many situations from making a thief fail his backstab to making a another class fail their obviously incoming knockback since I stealthed in close range to now making a mesmer fail his phantasm.

Otilac.3879:

dank.3680:

aNTarTis.2561:

Darek.1836:

Heh I remember seeing some XO last night. We wiped your Zerg while we were messing with Dev. You guys shouldn’t be so far away from your spawn, us fergs dont want to have to fight you

whoa, lol, can I be ur friend? <3

well, we had a lot of fun anyway
we hold the little tower in front of u respwan at EB for 3 hours +/-, that was a lot of fun for us trust me and I pretty sure was a lot of fun for the FERG who was there around, we even treb the door of ur keep (it was green) to help u guys out, and our “zerg” was only 5-7 players LOL…

but ofc, in the end we got pwned by the massive green cobra LOL u need to give thanks and credit to DR because they cleared us pretty fast with ther 3 trebs and his big fat zerg hahaha LOL, well, I think they cleared ur guys too, and the npcs, mobs, and anything moving around there…

You guys are pretty decent players… But please stop hiding in the invuln aread of the supply camps. The lameness of that totally overrides any opinion of skill you might have.

We were a party againts a 50 player fergs… we looked up for protection and keep fighting… blame Anet for not fixing that spot, that to be realistic everyone uses…

I’ve seen lots of Devonas and Fergs, running from a party and logging out. Thats Lame…

Actually I have screenshots of 5 of you hiding there from 3 of us that I had posted here about a week ago, the post however got infracted for posting screenshots of exploits. I’ve seen you guys do it countless times anyways.

aNTarTis.2561:

Darek.1836:

Heh I remember seeing some XO last night. We wiped your Zerg while we were messing with Dev. You guys shouldn’t be so far away from your spawn, us fergs dont want to have to fight you

whoa, lol, can I be ur friend? <3

well, we had a lot of fun anyway
we hold the little tower in front of u respwan at EB for 3 hours +/-, that was a lot of fun for us trust me and I pretty sure was a lot of fun for the FERG who was there around, we even treb the door of ur keep (it was green) to help u guys out, and our “zerg” was only 5-7 players LOL…

but ofc, in the end we got pwned by the massive green cobra LOL u need to give thanks and credit to DR because they cleared us pretty fast with ther 3 trebs and his big fat zerg hahaha LOL, well, I think they cleared ur guys too, and the npcs, mobs, and anything moving around there…

You guys are pretty decent players… But please stop hiding in the invuln aread of the supply camps. The lameness of that totally overrides any opinion of skill you might have.

Sifu.6527:

Warlord.9074:

It wont be nerfed. 1st of all that skill takes around 2 seconds to cast and it roots the warrior in place. So not only cant move at all but it can be dodged. 2ndly those are not average damage numbers. The target has got to be a glass cannon build or a low level with bad gear… 3rdly it requires full adrenaline to pull off decent damage and its only decent if it crits and the warrior has very high crit damage. So folk it wont change. Learn to play and stop calling for nerfs on skills that arn’t game breaking and require a lot of things to happen and a forgiving RNG to play.\

Lastly as always peoples damage calculations are way off.

You fail to mention that warrior can get 3 bars of adren with a click of a button, Kill Shot is 1500 range, and you can combine it with quickness for a total cast time of 1 sec. Kill Shot hits fully defensive 3,200 armor target for 10-15 K. Should everyone be a free kill for warrior every 60-90 sec? No..

From – Lvl 80 Warrior with 4,600 Attack (no orb needed) and 119 Crit damage built for cheesy kill shot.

This. It’s funny how people blindly defend obviously broken crap. Funny that no other class besides warrior and thief can 1 hit someone even if both are full glass but that’s always peoples excuse for it.

But hey, everyone but warriors and thieves should have to wear full vital/toughness gear and put 30 in each tough/vital line to survive one shot from FOTM scrub builds and not be able to kill anything…

Boedavildje.4927:

I don’t really see a problem with the gold gain in WvW. I dont que that much upgrades on keeps so that might be why i make good gold in WvW. In good hours i can easily make 5 gold an hour from events, loot bags and other drops. Even in bad hours i make 2 gold an hour. Since mats are so much more expensive now gold gain shouldnt be a problem for anyone in WvW.

You are sooo full of crap… 5 gold an hour.. Right.

Eyelusion.8205:

A couple thoughts:

1. This thread should be moved to the elementalist forum. It’s not a thread much about the entry of elementalists thru the tower door but rather a thread about the downed state of elemenentalists being overpowered or not.

2. I completely disagree with the OP. The OP brings this up stating he/she is overpowered when using it, but then seems to go on a mission to call it overpowered and get it changed. This isn’t even the first thread the OP created on this subject. This is more of a thread created by someone who got frustrated trying to kill an elementalist that kept going into the tower room after being downed? A couple thoughts on that:

A.) An elementalist can not just do this over and over and over as the health bar gets lowered dramatically after each use. Therefore, after doing this three or four times, the elementalist will kill itself. This argument is like having an argument over the overpowered portal if placing a few of those over time would kill the mesmer. I wish!

B.) Seriously, OP? You have a problem with the elementalist being overpowered? Trouble killing elementalists next to a tower? Elementalists are so overpowered by the downed state that you have taken this on as a mission to fix as you watch elementalists ruin WvWvW as we know it because this makes them too elite and the new flavor of the month for builds? NO? I didn’t think so. Get over it.

I know for a fact he mains a d/d Ele, and is very good at it.

I main a d/d Ele as well, and yes I can do this over and over more then 4 times. I just wait a bit when I get the red downed state icon till it goes back yellow. I live long enough ducking in and out of the tower and using all my utilities that this is never a problem.

The previous thread got closed because of inflammatory tones by other posters. A lot of people are overreacting just because they think the word nerf. He is not asking for a nerf, he’s asking to fix an obviously broken mechanic.

Some claim that this can’t be effective enough to matter, as someone who does this on a regular basis I disagree. I’ve stalled huge zergs by myself doing it tons of time. I get them to pull back away from their rams trying to draw me out further. I get lots of them downed and several defeated every time I do it..

People assume that it would only be used to go out and be suicidal until downed. Well that would indeed not be very effective. But when you play to the full potential and keep ducking in and out of the tower when needed and use all of your utilities to survive combined with being skilled and having a solid build, you will survive a long time and do tons of damage.

The fact that once they finally do lock me down and defeat me, that I can just kitten my way back into the tower and rez up only to start the process over again fresh, is in my opinion OP and broken.

boozer.7815:

jaif.3518:

The problem is signet of earth – I easily get 50% of kills because I root someone in range of the zerg, or root them with dragon’s tooth and phoenix incoming.

What can I replace it with? I don’t want to go staff – I use that in keep defenses, but I’ve never really been comfortable with staff in the open field.

I fail to see why SoE is a problem for you. You describe yourself demolishing people through using it then you go on to say that’s a problem…

I guess since you say being effective is a problem for you that you should drop SoE and go with SoA instead. That way you will be less effective.

He said he wants to try a new setup….

Even though I don’t run a signet build, I still use SOE because I just love it. That extra toughness just for that bit more mitigation against thief spikes, and that 1200 range insta 3 sec immobile is just too good.

I would say, if you really like it, then keep it. There is no law saying you can’t use 1 signet without using a ‘signet build’.

Valorwing.2865:

Dank you try way too hard. I finally had the “honor” of fighting you to a point where neither of was going to die and I walked away, but for some reason you chased me all the way from Bay back to hills and then some. I even tried to tell you to stop because the fight was going nowhere yet you still kept chasing after me… Do you not like me or something. I can understand NP because I always target Chris but you?

lol I knew you were going to post about that.. I chased you for fun, not trying to kill you. You might have noticed I was only using CC’s on you and not any real attacks. I wanted to fight to the end though, but obviously you weren’t in it for the long haul, which I realized and decided just to mess around with you. Then we met up at the keep and I found it entertaining we both decided to leave each other alone and each attacked the multiples on either side that were with us.

It was nothing personal me chasing you, I was just messing around..

BTW I usually don’t even bother to 1v1 d/d eles. Because it’s always a long fight and nothing will happen till one person makes a reasonably big mistake. I was however having fun fighting you and wished you would have stayed in it till one of us messed up and lost.

Oozo.7856:

dank.3680

lol we ran into those AD guys.. 3 hammer knockdown specs 2 guards and a war or 2 wars and a guard I can’t remember. We did beat them with even numbers, but it was definitely annoying.

There were four of you throughout the entire fight. We killed your ranger almost immediately, which left a mesmer and a thief. We got the thief to low health, he then stealthed and ran away to get out of combat to heal to full and come back later in the fight. That left you. Being a mesmer you were able to stealth and port kite us until the thief and an elementalist (probably d/d – aren’t they all?) showed up. Your ranger came back from respawn towards the end of the fight.

You are all good players, but the TLDR message here is that you won basically because of mesmer and thief stealth mechanics. It must kind of suck not knowing whether you are winning fights because you are good or because of horrible game mechanics. That is why most of us in AD totally avoid the commonly used cheese builds that the best players use. When we win against superior numbers it is because we earned it.

Dynnen was using a hammer and staff (I think). He usually uses greatsword. I was playing my guardian using hammer, mace, and shield. Madra was a warrior using greatsword, axe, and warhorn.

If you were getting knocked down a lot it’s because you kept running into rings of warding (which I trapped you in at the start of the fight). Guardian hammer doesn’t have as much targetted knockdown CC as a hammer warrior.

Your thinkin of the wrong fight. I was playing my little d/d Ele. And there was no prior battle between the (3) of us running into you. It was 3v3 for the entirety.. Then we caught a couple of you separated shortly after.. Then I played around with 1 of you and like 4 other randoms leading them on a goose chase after that.

Oh you did trap me in bubble though, but I lightning flashed out of it without getting knocked down by it. I was getting KD’s mostly by the hammer warriors jumping attack.

But, about your story here. I’d like to know how mesmer+thief+ranger = 4 people in entirety.

Tiglie.5834:

Thanks for the well wishes Noobler. It’s just keeping us fresh, and giving us something new to fight. Our intention is for a short stay. I must say, I was impressed with just everyone overall last night, much much tougher fights than normal. And this was also against Devona’s that usually arn’t that big of a threat to deal with, ontop of the Kain’s to fight. I tell you that group of AD guys with the PRO legendary warrior and a few others tagging along was just beyond frustrating.

Beyond that, the “kain” drama is just overhyped by 2 or 3 people on this board. I think it’s more of a combination of some diehard trolls and people clueless to the fact that it’s really not that serious. Does anyone REALLLLLLLLLLLY care about the virtual scoreboard?

lol we ran into those AD guys.. 3 hammer knockdown specs 2 guards and a war or 2 wars and a guard I can’t remember. We did beat them with even numbers, but it was definitely annoying.

Oh and grats Dev after 10 trebs and probably 12 hours, you finally got Redlake.. It was fun keeping you out without walls for a couple hours till upgrades went through, then again till the next upgrade, then again till fortified..

Oh and Kain don’t give up.. Ferg is in by far the worst spot in this matchup having far less
population then either of you. Yet we are still out there every day kicking kitten holding down our BL. Upgrading, putting down siege. We are out there every day layin down as much hurt as we can in enemy bl, and hey we mostly focus on Devona BL’s so you should be happy.

Sir Blazin.9365:

dank.3680:

Just wanna say Kain could have likely won this match if they just took smart advantage of the opportunities presented by Ferg controlling a lot of Devona’s BL. Instead they attack us on Devona BL and our own map. Silly

Lol that was me… and about 9 other guys…

We enjoy killing bads with red names floating above their heads. Every once in a while we like to pretend that we are tactical, but the most important thing to me right now is that I got 1150 more badges to farm for another invader set.

lol you guys hiding in the corner of one little supply camp abusing the invuln spot is hardly what I was talking about. “That was me”, yeah… but no.. Not talking about one time, and noQQ/LARP hardly matter anyways as you guys never cap anything.

Not that it matters to me, FERG doesn’t have a chance to win with our population. I just found it silly KAIN threw away what could have been their win.

What a silly thing to complain about.. The downed state in PvP is a pathetically lame mechanic in the first place. Should be straight to defeated, and if your friendlies wanna res you, then it should take a decent amount of time..

Just wanna say Kain could have likely won this match if they just took smart advantage of the opportunities presented by Ferg controlling a lot of Devona’s BL. Instead they attack us on Devona BL and our own map. Silly

Creslin.1758:

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

Kardiamond.6952:

@maddoctor

Well the issue we are talking about is only affective WvW, so I was taking in account WvW use only.

Negative. this can be done in the foefire spvp map as well. Thats where i experienced it.

I know my vapor form has been rooted once or twice. its pretty rare. specifically by that ranger binding roots thing.

I’m not surprised about that. Entangle is handled differently than other root skills. It isn’t a condition, it is literally a physical entity that holds you, and it’s also an elite skill. So it doesn’t surprise me that it would root you in vapor form.

It actually is a condition. It applies immobility (1s) over and over. I use condition removal to get out of them all the time.

god wtf… sorry about the crazy repeating formatting for that post i cant fix it..

@ harrison

lol.. I happen to abuse this mechanic myself on my ele.

lol.. I happen to abuse this mechanic myself on my ele...I’ve sat there and done this repeatedly more then 10 times in a row. It’s not hard to keep an eye on the downed penatly indicator and wait it out a bit before going back out. It actually does not take long to go away.
.. Downed DOES clear conditions.
..You can’t be touched while in the downed state mist form, by anything. I’ve went right through warding walls and everything.
..Not if your alone in a tower delaying until help can arrive. Especially when your build is for D/D.

lol.. I happen to abuse this mechanic myself on my ele...I’ve sat there and done this repeatedly more then 10 times in a row. It’s not hard to keep an eye on the downed penatly indicator and wait it out a bit before going back out. It actually does not take long to go away.
.. Downed DOES clear conditions.
..You can’t be touched while in the downed state mist form, by anything. I’ve went right through warding walls and everything.
..Not if your alone in a tower delaying until help can arrive. Especially when your build is for D/D.To those saying it’s not effective, just lol. I’ve delayed big zergs by myself doing this plenty of times.. Pushed them back away from their rams, scattered them, downed many. And yes I can pull off full kills, especially when I don’t have to worry that if I’m downed I can just revive for sure inside the tower or keep.

lol.. I happen to abuse this mechanic myself on my ele...I’ve sat there and done this repeatedly more then 10 times in a row. It’s not hard to keep an eye on the downed penatly indicator and wait it out a bit before going back out. It actually does not take long to go away.
.. Downed DOES clear conditions.
..You can’t be touched while in the downed state mist form, by anything. I’ve went right through warding walls and everything.
..Not if your alone in a tower delaying until help can arrive. Especially when your build is for D/D.To those saying it’s not effective, just lol. I’ve delayed big zergs by myself doing this plenty of times.. Pushed them back away from their rams, scattered them, downed many. And yes I can pull off full kills, especially when I don’t have to worry that if I’m downed I can just revive for sure inside the tower or keep.I find it funny my thief teleport, or my mesmer blink while downed, cannot go through the gate, yet people think it’s ok that ele’s can.

lol.. I happen to abuse this mechanic myself on my ele...I’ve sat there and done this repeatedly more then 10 times in a row. It’s not hard to keep an eye on the downed penatly indicator and wait it out a bit before going back out. It actually does not take long to go away.
.. Downed DOES clear conditions.
..You can’t be touched while in the downed state mist form, by anything. I’ve went right through warding walls and everything.
..Not if your alone in a tower delaying until help can arrive. Especially when your build is for D/D.To those saying it’s not effective, just lol. I’ve delayed big zergs by myself doing this plenty of times.. Pushed them back away from their rams, scattered them, downed many. And yes I can pull off full kills, especially when I don’t have to worry that if I’m downed I can just revive for sure inside the tower or keep.I find it funny my thief teleport, or my mesmer blink while downed, cannot go through the gate, yet people think it’s ok that ele’s can.It’s especially more effective when I keep running back in the tower as much as I can manage to get out of combat and regen after a kill.. Always having the failsafe if they happen to immobile me enough times to get me downed.

SuiRyuJin.4615:

Creslin.1758:

So your counters are…

1 and 2 – walk away from your ram and let the ele kill it while you keep hoping that he comes after you.

3 – hope the ele is extremely bad.

4 – randomly have a staff guardian with you that pops line of warding at the exact right moment.

Yeah…this is why the skill needs to be fixed lol.

Also guys, I want to point out. I am an elementalist. This is not a QQ post. This is just me realizing that one of MY abilities is overpowered.

please provide me a counter to enduring pain warrior coming out murdering someone, walking back, full hp
whats the counter for a thief walking through gate on stealth after walking out of said gate BS/HS someone down?
whats a counter for a mesmer portaling the entire defense squad on u with mass invisibility casted?

Why are we arguing a downed state gimick, against utilities from classes while they are still up. Ele has plenty of ways to run in and out picking people off while alive too. The only difference is we dont have to care if we happen to fail.

this post got bugged.. :./

innocent ouarior.1954:

The “I play Elem” as introduction to call for a nerf is cute. I doubt anyone believes you.

Besides, it doesnt actually help you to save the keep from being taken. It just allows “some sort” of hit and run fight, I’m not sure how more frustrating than self rezing rangers or low cooldown theives teleport it is.

I think you guys are blowing this way out of proportion…this isn’t a “clutch” nerf that would drastically affect Ele playstyle. It would just make it so you can’t abuse vapor form to be unkillable in keep sieges…that’s it.

I’m honestly baffled by how many people think this is such a big deal. In my mind, it is just an irritating gimmick that seems clearly imbalanced when compared to other classes, and should be fixed.

Also, the uber spike BS build was nerfed via the change to assassin’s signet.

It sounds like “ima fkg ninja thief runnin fkg ninja glass canon stealth build I can fkg kill everyone before they can see me with culling issues AHA! Why cant I get 100% fkg killin blow on elems near a keep! TIS 0P FKG NERF FFFS²!!!!”

Whether you believe it or not he Mains an Ele, and is probably one of the most skilled Ele’s in the game. From experience fighting against him, and now with him since I’m now on the same server.

Themanbat.3206:

When we defend Cragtop, we bring it

Wall is down, Dev has been trebbing it for a long time… But … Dev doesn’t notice and tries to siege the gate?

We got a big kick out of that fight.. Our 7 man defense wrecked the Dev zerg 3 times before they finally came with hugely overwhelming numbers, and still had a hell of a time pushing us out.

Shiikai.2931:

A shoutout to the Charr engineer from [THOR] that we were dueling! I was the Elementalist, Blackest Fury was the Engineer and Trixa was the Guardian. We had a ton of fun dueling with you in our Borderlands near Bluevale. Seriously, the most fun ive had in ages, and you are an awesome duelist! Hope to fight you again soon!

That is spectra, dueled him myself a lot. Definitely the best engi I’ve ever fought.

Chaster Sharpshooter.3640:

So that explains the reason why FC was so brutal and took first place early this morning xD

however though … it is me or does DR kinda … on vacation or something?

Not feeling as much as resistance as before.

Well we only field about 5-10 people at a time, we can make a difference, but not one big enough to go from last to first.. There was a lot of dedicated people involved in controlling the DR borderlands last night, though we were a part of that.

Sinistry.2416:

It would work better if the emotes would targeted players in WvW… but anyway

You can select someone and use ‘bow @’ and it will target them by name.

aimac.9046:

To TRx guild:
Why did you guys leave?

Because we would rather be on the outnumbered side. Most of us already had a lot of friends on Ferg we had met when you could still get names from the report box. We are a small guild and would rather be somewhere we can stand out and make a difference.

TRx had a great first day of play being on Ferg. (we transferred over last night). We really had an amazing time in many many battles on DR borderlands. Thanks for all the great fights to everyone who stood against us! And we really appreciate the overwhelmingly warm welcome we have gotten from the players of Ferguson.

Etna.1634:

Dred, glad you took it with a laugh, that was my intention not to try to insult anyone. And your late crew have alot of talent in it for sure, as do Anonymous Defender, Neglected and some of the guys in TRx – especially a certain mesmer <3.

Stylii, thx2u2 and about being crazy I believe everyone that isn’t swedish in larp should be institutionalized.

Sol, they’re thieves, they stealth, this causes rendering issues as do every stealth in the game. They do not play thieves cause there is a rendering issue, they play thieves cause they’re all trolling (m)aggots and thieves are perfect for exactly that kind of playstyle. Free tip: TAB and you’ll get the target before it renders.

PS. I’m bored at work and want to play the game not the forums! PSS.

Yep I enjoy fighting you guys, always a tough fight.. I see the LARP tag and sometimes sigh, knowing I have to be serious about this battle or get destroyed.

I think your probably talking about my Mesmer, as I’ve had some epic battles with you guys while I was playing it. Today your thief totally destroyed my ele in 3 hits while me and my Engi guildy tried to jump you two at middle south supply camp. Was my bad, shoulda had that protection boon up or an aura or something, I knew he was there I knew what he was capable of, but I slipped and like expected got destroyed. We did come back and get ya guys though.

It’s not like the puzzle is hard by any stretch in the first place.. The very first section is a bit annoying, but the whole thing is super easy and rather short.