Guild Wars 2

lerak.5286:

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Mysterious Voice: You must promise to protect it with your life. Will you?
Marjory Delaqua: What…was…that?
Kasmeer Meade: It couldn’t be…
Marjory Delaqua: We need to speak with Ogden immediately. Let’s find a way out of here. .

Considering it seems Kasmeer recognises the voice, I’d think it might be one of Destiny’s Edge’s members. Though unlikely, why not even Logan trying to repair the damage of his choice?

While it is possible that Kasmeer reaction was aimed at the voice, it was my understanding that what she was reffereing to was the egg. Since they only now found out after having thought all were destroyed.

aspirine.6852:

dsslive.8473:

Rukh.9287:

I doubt it. It would be pretty easy to explain how a god isn’t completely dead.

Not when both the physical and magical part of said deity are absolved. The physical died and the magical was absorbed by kormir. There is no more abaddon and it will stay like this.

What can happen is that we learn more about what happened when the gods, and especially Abaddon, released magic back into the world, a story of how/why/what happened, that might give us a view on the relation between the gods and the elder dragons or the consequenses of said choice.

But abaddon is most certainly not returning. A retcon of that nature would pretty much bash in all the lore that has been established and i don’t see that happening.

She could become more abaddon like perhaps. After all isnt she still preciding in the realm of torment? I am note a lore freak, but how did abaddon get his powers again? From and old godlike source?

Yes, abaddon had a predecessor, and Kormir did stay in the realm of torment to cleanse it. But just because she absorbed his powers doesn’t mean she’ll become like abaddon, his powers weren’t what made him bad. It was his conflict with the other gods that put abaddon on his path to take revenge. His own abilities aren’t inherently evil.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Regarding Kralkatorrik, I think our best indication of his spheres of influence, is Glint. She can read minds, is made of crystal, and seems able to create a pocket dimension inside a grain of sand. This seems very much like the domain of illusions to me: Crystals, bending light, hiding things from sight.

Just a small note, Glint isn’t made of Crystal. She is flesh and bone with parts of her that have been corrupted by crystals (see attachement)

We also learned from destiny’s Edge that this idea that her lair is within one grain of sand wasn’t correct but in fact her lair wasn’t in one grain of sand, but that it was in all of the grains of sand.

We don’t know enough about kralkatorrik either to attribute him the same powers glint had, as she was corrupted it’s fully possible she retained some of her powers from before the became Kralkatorrik’s Champion.

And i could be completely wrong in this, but Snaff manages to take control over the dragon’s mind, which to me seems like something you wouldn’t do when said type of fighting is supposed to be his strenghts. What w eknow of Kralkattorik is that he corrupts by transforming flesh into stone and crystal, creates minions out of stone and crystal , can become a sandstorm and has been associated with lightning. Not to mention the Golden breath that made the dragonbrand. It’s far too soon to assume that Kralkatorrik is gifted with mesmeric abilities, other than the color purple it really has no base so far.

I honestly don’t see the “lack of relation to gw1” people keep mentioning, sure scarlet her story didn’t bring back old stories from gw1, but it didn’t have to. Not everything that happens todays is related to what happened 250 years ago. But the world never felt disconnected from its history in gw1 to me.

Anyhow that’s jsut my opinion :-)

Slowpokeking.8720:

If it doesn’t have any support but “maybe”, of course it’s not a valuable arugment.

We’ve seen that his champion, Captain Whiting even didn’t know everything his crew knew, why the Eye would know about our mentor’s loss and our relationship when it’s guarding the source in Orr all along?

He can as long as their was a champion nearby. So you are saying he could not alert his own navy after a long while(ship misdirected, fight began, we reached the shore of Orr), but chose to tell the eye about our mentor’s loss in a little while, after we entered the place and fought the Eye?

Yet you use things that have no support other than “maybe” and state them as real facts, atleast i know that there are other possibilities.

Captain Whiting isn’t zhaitan, you’re confusing things again. Zhaitan knows everything of the person he corrupts knows, that’s a whle lot of information to go through. The eye would know this because it was told by Zhaitan, the Eye isn’t miles away but at the source of Orr and thats a lon time after our mentor died, so plenty of time for him to pay a visit to Zhaitan.

Little while? so directly after our mentor died we stormed orr? oh well guess i thought all the parts inetween happened too and weren’t jsut a dream. There was plenty of time for Zhaitan to inform his main champions.

No he can’t, once again you mistake the fact that “zhaitan knows all that his corrupted knows” with " his corrupted know all that zhaitan know" which is completely false. The ship happend in a way shorter time than the time we took to actually get to orr after our mentor died. You remeber all that stuff that happened inbetween? ye that did actually happen.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Then there is no proof of Reza and all the kings being mesmers and powerful enough to see through others’ mind as well. Plus the princes already proved that not all Orrian Royal members were mesmers. The other two nations’ royal line also suggested that it’s very unlikely that they were.

We are talking about magical abilities.

Give me a link or a source for your statement that says that we already know no all princes were mesmers (not that i ever stated such) Other’ nation’s royal lines proof nothing and suggest even less.

No once again you are wrong

This is such a useless excercise, as long as you state things that are unknown/known to be false as facts there is no point in continuing this

Slowpokeking.8720:

No, I’m saying that it was unique to Zhaitan’s minions. I don’t have to prove a “no” because there was nothing the disprove. We already know that the Orrian families were not all mesmers, so it’s not likely all of them have such ability.

Because she betrayed her master? The Dragonspawn was killed by EoD but we don’t see Jormag created another as well.

It’s the same rank of the champions. Also unlike Zhaitan, we don’t know about all the champions of Kralkatorrik.

If they could teleport through the portal, Jormag could not harm them since they could escape when the dragon was close then come out.

Where did it say that Jormag could not go through the Mist? Jormag’s minions were able to invade the Mist and send minions throughout the Frozen Portal from the Mist.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destroy_the_corrupted_portals_summoning_creatures_from_the_mists

Actualy you do have to prove a “no” without proof you cannot state things as facts the way you do. Link to where we are told the class of the royal family of orr?

I also never said that they were all mesmers, and for that matter, what proof do we have that every eye has the ability to use telepathy?

That comparison is flawed, Glint betrayed her master AFTER the ritual, so Kralkatorrik wouldn’t have anything to fear if he created another one. But we do know that the abilities of the dragonspawn aren’t unique to him, as such he cannot be compared in this context to glint.

you’ll need to explain the relevance of the knowledge of Svanir being a champion of jormag , because atm i don’t see any.

I don’t think you quite understand what they mean with holding jormag back so the norn could escape. You don’t help someone escape by running away from the dragon. These spirits were actively holding jormag back, they didn’t want to escape to the msits because then the norn had no chance to escape.

Yes, his minions were, however it sjtu happens to be that those that control the portals happen to be corrupted norn. So i don’t think you quite proved your own point with that one As this would fall into the “innate abilities” due to their connection to the spiritworld. Also, show me proof that jormag can enter and leave the mists? he can’t, if he could, he would be feasting on the magic found in there. Which would probably include the Spirits who survived.

Slowpokeking.8720:

We know how he corrupts but not sure could he make flesh or not. Like Primordus was confirmed to be able to affect the living, but we didn’t see it in game. Also if you think “what if” is not reliable, then why did you say the kings and queens of Orr could see through mind? There is 0 proof of that.

We are talking about telepathy, of course it’s magical and unique, just like the Risen Captain’s ability to control ships.

Yet we know Primordus can, it was told, because it had happend, not in our view, but it had happend thus had been recorded. There ahs been no reports at all of a newly created being made of flesh and bone from kralkatorrik. This comparison is failed from the start. We see the creatures he’s made and tehy are only made of stone and crystal. There is no proof whatsoever that suddenly the crystal dragon is able to mold flesh, because he can’t. Otherwise it would ahve been noticed by someone and written down, as was done with primordus.

Because i don’t state “what if” as a fact, i state it as one of the possibilities while you argue that it cannot be anything else. “What if” is not the same as “defiantely can’t be anything but this” that’s the difference between when i use it and you use it.

No we weren’t, we were talking about dragon champions holding on to abilites they already possessed before corruption, underwhich glint’s telepathy.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Tuomir.1830:

You are not gaining any credibility by claiming absence of proof to be proof of absence. On the contrary.

Also, Zhaitan’s minions are known to be liars and to use psychological attacks to shake their foes. Considering Zhaitan knew everything those it corrupted knew, and that the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was one of it’s most valuable pawns, it isn’t very difficult to imagine Zhaitan giving specific information to the Eye to be used against Zhaitan’s most prominent enemy.

Simply put, Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan is the last being you should believe.

If we don’t have any evidence then it’s given by Zhaitan. Also the princes proved that the Orr royal families weren’t all mesmers.

Zhaitan doesn’t know everything unless they reveal it to him. And its minions were not connected themselves.

Whiting was an example, he didn’t even know Cobiah was brought to him, that were seen by his own crew.

In the personal quest we took the lighthouse and misdirect the light, but the Dead Ships still follow it, why didn’t Zhaitan alert them? We took the ships and went to the shore, Zhaitan didn’t know until its eye saw us.

Another Eye also showed the ability to see through the scholar’s mind and dream.

No, if you don’t ahve any evidence it’s origins is unknown, absence of proof does mean one option is undoubtedly the truth, it means that neither are proven and thus neither can be stated as fact.

I never said they all were.

Here’s where you make the wrong assumptions, you assume that zhaitan knowing everything his undead know means that the connection works in revers aka zhaitan knows everything the undead know thus the undead know everything zhaitan knows. This is simply not through, and it was stated ingame that zhaiten does infact know everything his corrupted minion knows, which is why he knows to strike the vigil/OoW/Priory respectively after killing (and supposedly corrupting ) mentor (with the exception of Seiran which was clearly an oversight made by anet since sylvari cannot be corrupted)

Because the link doesn’t work in two ways, he cannot alarm his troops from miles away.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Actually we don’t know much about it. It only awoke for a little while then went to take a rest.

We are talking about special magical abilities, not experience and knowledge.

While Kralkatorrik surely isn’t the most wellknown dragon, we do know how he works, because we’ve seen it. We know how he corrupts and we know that when he creates a minion it’s made of crystal. This is all proof that is shown in the game, and all that is being ignored for a “what if” statement?

We were talking about creature being able to keep their innate abilities after corruption, you’re the one who wants to make it only magical, because including all abilities magical and non-magical doesn’t support your point, hence it gets thrown out (jsut like the sylvari in arah gets ignored despite her knowledge having been proven correct

Slowpokeking.8720:

It’s unique ability to Zhaitan’s minions, we don’t see other minions have such ability. It’s also the common ability of the Eyes of Zhaitan. Do you have a proof that King Reza was a mesmer? If no then it’s obviously granted by Zhaitan.

Of course it’s unique. The Dragons have a champion for a special task. Just like the Zhaitan’s Eye(Seeing through mind and Eye beams), Mouth(Devour Magic), Risen Captain(Control Dead Ship) all have unique abilities compare to other minions, but these were granted by Zhaitan, not their own. Plus beside Glint we only saw the Shatterer as the Branded champion and knew little about it.

He was just a hunter, not even a shaman. If he had strong such special ability before transformation they would have found it out that it was him from the beginning.

Actually, Jormag could touch the spirit world in some way at least. It even killed a few Spirits of the Wild

There is also a small group of spirits that are revered with great sorrow. These “lost” Spirits of the Wild remained behind to fight Jormag. Owl, Dolyak (also known as Ox), Eagle, and Wolverine are lauded for their bravery and their sacrifice. Owl’s death is known to the norn—the last Havroun of Owl confirmed it—but as to the final outcome of Dolyak, Eagle, and Wolverine, even the shamans do not know. No norn has been blessed to serve as havroun to those spirits in generations, but then, it is not uncommon for weaker spirits (or those who are not close to this world) to be without a havroun. All that is truly known is that these spirits held the line in the far North and, by their bravery, aided the norn in escaping Jormag’s claws.

Are you talking about Telepathy being unique to Zhaitan’s minions? *cough*Glint*cough*. That is a terrible point, i hope you do realize that. No we odn’t have proof he was a mesmer, but we don’t have anything proving he isn’t , so i could say the same thing to you.

Ahem, Glint wan’t a champion anymore after he awoke, if he needed it for diversity, why didn’t he replace her with a different champion who could use telepathy? Alsothere are multiple eyes, there are multiple mouths, so you’re kind of disproving the point you’re trying to make.

What do you mean? “foudn out it was him from the beginning” ? Jora was there when he was corrupted, we aLREADY knew it was him because there was an actual witness

Yes Jormag ate the Owl spirit, but i think you’re forgeting something important. The spirits were actiely holding back Jormag to protect the norn, while bear/wolf/etc were guiding them to safety, this means they weren’t in the spiritworld at that time. They were in Tyria interacting and helping the norn.

see the above, it doesn’t show that he reached into the spirit world, these spirits were actvely, in tyria, protecting the Norn.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Well they mentioned some things that you’ve discussed on the forums. The library is pretty much an echo of our lore discussions, without explicitly confirming our ideas. While Frozenwind and I were going through the place, we repeatedly noticed books where we asked each other: “Wait, isn’t this something Konig discussed at great length?”

I wonder, has this update renewed your faith in the game’s writing? It definitely has for me. Lets hope they stay the course.

They’re more of things I argued against for what I’ve seen which is just the “gods aren’t gods” by Gadd and the Dragons and Gods. Hardly my theories.

And no, it hasn’t. Because where you and others are seeing ‘omg new Lord’s and ‘omg gw1 lore’ I see ‘recap!’ And ‘gw1 references that make no logical sense and were added for the sake of calming the complaints!’

While i agree that a lot of people do ahve their nostalgia glasses on (not that i don’t find this update great) i disagree with what you said in the last paragraph.

Those books weren’t added for the sake of “calming complaints” but to make the library more interesting, ofcourse there are gonna be books around that don’t have anything to do with the current storyline, that’s why you aren’t forced to go read them to understand the story. They are simply extra tidbits to make the library a more fun place to run around in. Also, for plenty of people this isnt a “recap” but actually new.

When it comes to adding things to the surroundings that don’t impact the story really at all, there is no fault in making some references here and there. It’s the same world, they share the same history, so yes references will be found. And i really don’t understand why it would be a negatif thing to begin with.

Slowpokeking.8720:

dsslive.8473:

That’s my point, he turns them into crystals, that doesn’t show control over flesh, that shows corruption of flesh, hence my point that it points towards Glint having been corrupted. Point me to a creature that was created from nothing, that has flesh and bones. There aren’t any. Because he cannot control flesh, we know this.

Its an ability , it’s a reason why they were chosen to be champions. It doesn’t ahve to be magical all the time. And i’m not saying that the elder dragons don’t give gifts to their champions, i already said they did in my first post when i spoke of glint and her capability to make crystaline minions. But they do reserve that part in which they excelled even after corruption.

Into stones and crystals. Those flesh were actually stones.

No, it’s not magical or unique power. We are talking about telepathy, a special magic ability, all of Morgus Lethe’s magical ability was given by Zhaitan.

You’re not disproving my point by saying “into sones and crystals” you’re jsut proving that his corruption takes that form, it says nothing at all about the idea (which is compeltely unfounded) that Kralkatorrik could somehow create a flesh and blood creature out of nowhere. He does NOT control flesh, he is able to corrupt it, but that’s not control, he cannot mold flesh into desired shapes, he turns it into crystal and stone.

We are talking about innate abilites that their champions possesed before being corrupted. Magical or otherwise.

Slowpokeking.8720:

dsslive.8473:

Telepathy and mind reading aren’t “out of this world” abilities. Mesmers are pretty well versed in that. Queen Jennah even managed to look into Kralkatorrik’s mind in EoD. So yes, there is a defiante possibility that the royal family could ahve ahd the abilty to read thoughts, but the msitake you make is that tehy would use this all the time, that this is something that is always turned on. Queen Jennah can read thoughts, that doesn’t mean she reads the thoughts of every person she ever meets, that doesn’t mean she uses that power on anyone everywhere. These aren’t special abilities, these’s are realistic abilities that several otehrs and even current characters have. No idea why you find this so strange.

Not njsut Havroun, we know of Sons of Svanir entering the msits, we fought them. Norn , be it an innate ability that some have that’s being linked to the Spirits of the Wild or it is an ability that they have from their connection to them (the fact that svanir was trapped in his norn bear form and didn’t remain a regular norn after being corrupted points to him being forced into this state. Possibly for this exact ability.

Can you explain what the process of tracking Svanir has to do with this?

Not all king or queens are mesmers. We can see before Jennah, many of the Krytan rulers were not mesmers. We can also see that quite a few Risen princes don’t have mesmer skills. The Eye could even read into Sylvari’s dream. If Telepathy is not a big deal even to mortal humans, then how is Glint having telepathy “unique” and couldn’t be given by Kralkatorrik, who knew and devour magic much much more than humans?

Sons of Svanir had to rely on others’ ability to enter the mists. The guide even said that the Svanir shaman could not travel into mist world by themselves. Not to say Svanir was just a hunter, not a shaman.

Dragon has no true shaman, no havroun. Those who follow it do not have the ability to go into the Mists on its behalf, nor do they have the gifts norn expect to see in shamans of the Spirits of the Wild.

Actually it was made clear in the guide

Havrouns have the unique ability to physically cross into the Mists and go to the Hall of the Spirits, where the brave live forever.

Only Havroun Norn could do it. Was Svanir a Havroun? NO.

I never said that all kings and queens were mesmers, i simply used an example. My point is that telepathy isn’t incredibaly super rare, and considering that they could tap into the magic released by Zhaitan, it’s possible that magical abilities were more common amongts Orr citizens.

I’m afraid you read an earlier post i made wrong, i never called telepathy as a power unique, I called glint, as a minion of Kralkatorrik, to be unique in her gift of telepathy. Meaning, she is the only known minion/champion to have this gift, and we don’t even know if Kralkatorrik himself posseses that gift in the first place.

If jormag was the one to give the svanir the power to travel the mists, than answer me this: why is Jormag capable of giving others the ability to traverse the mists when he himself is not?

What i was trying to point out, is that , while shaman’s are so much more connected to the spirits than hunters, hence why the shaman are capable of opening the portal. It’s their connection to the spirits that offers them that, and there is nothing that says that jsut because they choose to worship a spirit that doesn’t necessarily exist, that ability just disappears.

We knew very little of Svanir as a norn before he was turned. So we don’t know how connected he was to the spirits of the wild, and it’s a possibility that by forcing svanir into his bear form that that connection was made stronger , giving him acces to said ability.

Astralporing.1957:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

It’s easier if you do this one with a friend. One person can lure him away from the vortexes and then the other just concentrates on getting the buff on all the vortexes – then you just lure him back into the middle and each of you kills half of the vortexes each.

Be careful, the achievement is (as me and my friends found out yesterday) tracked per each person separately. You (personal you, not general one) need to cause 75% of the boss damage for it to count, so only one person can get it at a time. If two people are doing it and kill the vortexes equally, neither will get it.

I don’t think this is necessarily true, maybe a recent patch changed this, but when i did this achievement, i had a friend with me and we both shattered the vortexes and both got the achievement.

Slowpokeking.8720:

dsslive.8473:

Actually, leadership is an ability , it’s not a magical one, but it’s still an ability and not one that everyone has. Like Scarlet, her technical prowess and general genius mind is her ability.

But we do know about Kralkatorriks abilities, he may not be incredibly active right now. All creatures Kralkatorrik are known to ahve created were crystal constructs. He cannot create living flesh out of thin air, none of the Dragon’s can. So Glint being a creature made of flesh and bone that shows physical signs of crystal corruption, would proof that she indeed wasn’t created.

also:
Ability
- possession of the means or skill to do something
- talent, skill or proficiency in a particular area

There is no reason why skills such as those of Morgus Lethe shouldn’t be counted as abilities. Especially for Elder dragons who want to push forward will need their champions to have such knowledge, to ahve that ability. And its not one that they themselves grant them, it’s something innate to the creature before corruption that sticks around afterwards

We don’t know much about it. Also, Branded creature’s flesh turns into stone.

It’s experience, not special magical ability. Unlike Glint’s telepathy, it can’t be learned.

Because it’s some experience in their life time, which could be learned and experience, telepathy is different. Like we say Glint is smart and wise, had a lot of knowledge, but that’s different from her ability of telepathy. Morgus Lethe’s speical ability
Life sucking blade
Command Deadships
Turn others into Risen up killing them.

All of these were granted by Zhaitan, he had none of these in his life time.

That’s my point, he turns them into crystals, that doesn’t show control over flesh, that shows corruption of flesh, hence my point that it points towards Glint having been corrupted. Point me to a creature that was created from nothing, that has flesh and bones. There aren’t any. Because he cannot control flesh, we know this.

Its an ability , it’s a reason why they were chosen to be champions. It doesn’t ahve to be magical all the time. And i’m not saying that the elder dragons don’t give gifts to their champions, i already said they did in my first post when i spoke of glint and her capability to make crystaline minions. But they do reserve that part in which they excelled even after corruption.

Slowpokeking.8720:

dsslive.8473:

Actually we don’t know what gifts the royal family of Orr had so therefor it’s impossible to say whether it was gifted to them by Zhaitan or inherent to them. We do know that Orr was a powerfull and magical place due to the elder ragon sleeping below and that the citizens of orr were able to tap in that magic, making them more capable magic users.

About the nornbear, we know that there are norn who can enter the mists. So it’s not at all a leap to think that Jormag would corrupt Svanir to use that ability. The norn can enter the mists with the help of the spirits of the wilds (we know this of the personal story of the norn), it’s the same way they evoke their werebear/wolf/leopard/etc state. By corrupting Svanir, he was stuck into his bear form, like a forced connection to the bear spirit, granting him the ability to jump into the mists.
We know Jormag is looking for a way into the mists, so why would a creature who is looking for a window into the mists be able to grant that ability to his champions when he himself can’t even do that?

What? You are saying the kings and queens of Orr could read thoughts? If King Reza had such ability he would not have been tricked by Vizer and that disguised demon. It’s getting ridiculous. It’s a powerful and magical place does not mean its people have special ability.

The Havroun can open portal, they had to rely on the spirit’s bless. Svanir was not one of those, he worships the dragon since he approached it. Also, this happened 250 years later, in Svanir’s time, they could only use Wolf spirit to help track it.

Telepathy and mind reading aren’t “out of this world” abilities. Mesmers are pretty well versed in that. Queen Jennah even managed to look into Kralkatorrik’s mind in EoD. So yes, there is a defiante possibility that the royal family could ahve ahd the abilty to read thoughts, but the msitake you make is that tehy would use this all the time, that this is something that is always turned on. Queen Jennah can read thoughts, that doesn’t mean she reads the thoughts of every person she ever meets, that doesn’t mean she uses that power on anyone everywhere. These aren’t special abilities, these’s are realistic abilities that several otehrs and even current characters have. No idea why you find this so strange.

Not njsut Havroun, we know of Sons of Svanir entering the msits, we fought them. Norn , be it an innate ability that some have that’s being linked to the Spirits of the Wild or it is an ability that they have from their connection to them (the fact that svanir was trapped in his norn bear form and didn’t remain a regular norn after being corrupted points to him being forced into this state. Possibly for this exact ability.

Can you explain what the process of tracking Svanir has to do with this?

Actually, leadership is an ability , it’s not a magical one, but it’s still an ability and not one that everyone has. Like Scarlet, her technical prowess and general genius mind is her ability.

But we do know about Kralkatorriks abilities, he may not be incredibly active right now. All creatures Kralkatorrik are known to ahve created were crystal constructs. He cannot create living flesh out of thin air, none of the Dragon’s can. So Glint being a creature made of flesh and bone that shows physical signs of crystal corruption, would proof that she indeed wasn’t created.

also:
Ability
- possession of the means or skill to do something
- talent, skill or proficiency in a particular area

There is no reason why skills such as those of Morgus Lethe shouldn’t be counted as abilities. Especially for Elder dragons who want to push forward will need their champions to have such knowledge, to ahve that ability. And its not one that they themselves grant them, it’s something innate to the creature before corruption that sticks around afterwards

There is a ledge you can jump upon , they’ll be out of reach of the mordrem and all you’l have to do is wait for the chopper to come pick you up.

Slowpokeking.8720:

All the known dragon champions’ special ability was granted by their master. Eye of Zhaitan were the only rank of Risen champion that can see through people’s mind as well, so the kings and the queens of Orr had such ability before their death? The nornbear was the only champion of Jormag who can hide in spirit world. So Svanir had such ability before his transformation? Not to say we knew Kralkatorrik less than Jormag and Zhaitan. Beside Glint, the Shatterer was the only champion we saw.

Actually we don’t know what gifts the royal family of Orr had so therefor it’s impossible to say whether it was gifted to them by Zhaitan or inherent to them. We do know that Orr was a powerfull and magical place due to the elder ragon sleeping below and that the citizens of orr were able to tap in that magic, making them more capable magic users.

About the nornbear, we know that there are norn who can enter the mists. So it’s not at all a leap to think that Jormag would corrupt Svanir to use that ability. The norn can enter the mists with the help of the spirits of the wilds (we know this of the personal story of the norn), it’s the same way they evoke their werebear/wolf/leopard/etc state. By corrupting Svanir, he was stuck into his bear form, like a forced connection to the bear spirit, granting him the ability to jump into the mists.
We know Jormag is looking for a way into the mists, so why would a creature who is looking for a window into the mists be able to grant that ability to his champions when he himself can’t even do that?

Slowpokeking.8720:

dsslive.8473:

There is some evidence pointing towards Glint being corrupted rather than created. I’m not talking about what glint said or other sources, but specifically what we know of how Glint looks. It actually might tell us that she was infact corrupted.

We know how Kralkattorik corrupts the lesser beings, namely by turning their flesh into crystal. We also know that he the minions he creates are crystalline structures (like the shatterer) and not made of flesh and bone. As such one can deduct that Glint wasn’t created. Kralkattorik doesn’t have power over flesh and bone,he cannot create a creature made from those. He creates creatures from crystal and turns the creatures he corrupts into crystaline beings. Yes it’s circumstantial, but with what we know, it’s a pretty decent theory and very likely.

Touching upon that, we know that dragon minions have the capability to use gifts they already had from before they were turned. (ex are Scarlets genius mind, Zhaitan’s champion in Sea of Sorrows, etc) As such i believe her telepathy and being an oracle was something she already had, i assume this based from the fact that none of kralkatorrik’s minions have such capabilities. It’s unique to glint (and with that i don’t mean that other creatures don’t ahve that power, simply that, as a minion of kralky, she was the only known one to ahve that gift) I do believe she got something from kralkatorik though when she got turned, namely the ability to make crystal constructs (minions) of her own (as we see in the dragon’s lair mission in gw1) and possible the zephyrite crystals.

I also wanted to touch on what you said, slowepokeking, about the sylvari who told us about the forgotten, glint and the ritual that gave her free will. She isn’t jsut “some” sylvari, she’s been studying forgotten lore, forgotten ruins and their relation to glint. Yes you could argue that she didn’t translate the texts correctly, but that argument would be false, she succesfully performs the ritual the forgotten usd to free glint from kralky, which means that her findings about the forgotten and glint are known to be correct. It’s proven simply by the succes of this ritual. So i dismissing her as “justt some sylvari” is throwing away valid information about glint , information that’s very much important.

Kralkatorrik could turn flesh into crystal and stone.

All the known dragon champions’ special ability was granted by their master. Eye of Zhaitan were the only rank of Risen champion that can see through people’s mind as well, so the kings and the queens of Orr had such ability before their death? The nornbear was the only champion of Jormag who can hide in spirit world. So Svanir had such ability before his transformation? Not to say we knew Kralkatorrik less than Jormag and Zhaitan. Beside Glint, the Shatterer was the only champion we saw.

Like i mentioned in my post, Kralkatorrik can indeed turn flesh into crystal, but he cannot make flesh or bone. He can only trasfrom it into that which he controls. He has no control over the creatures flesh as in building a creating from scratch. All creatures we know of directly created by Kralkatorrik aren’t made of flesh and bone, but from crystals.

That’s why I believe glint was corrupted not created. For Kralkatorrik to be able to create glint, he would have to buidl actual flesh and bone, which he can’t.

We have evidence that prominent features of champions before corruption will be present still after corruption. Take Scarlet for example, it wasn’t Mordremoth that gave her the genius of building these amazing constructs and it wasn’t Mordremoth that taught herhow to use those gifts. She was already a genius, mordremoth simply made that what made her special work for him by corrupting her.

Zhaitan’s champion Morgus Lethe was already a knowledgable pirate, he knew the seas and how to command ships, that was something inherent to him, it wasn’t a gift of Zhaitan, it was merely used by the Elder dragon by corrupting the norn and making him an asset to him

But champions do get gifts from their respective Elder dragon, namely the ability to create minions. While Morgus lethe’s stratigical capabilities were already a part of him before corruption, the ability to make more risen wasn’t, as such it was a gift granted by Zhaitan. With respects to glint, her telepathy and ability as an oracle was already part of her while the ability to create more crystal constructs was a gift from her master after being corrupted.

The human gods can most certainly be humans that have grown into incredible strenghts, the same way Kormir became a goddess.

But i do believe they were gods before arriving in Tyria. Traveling the mists isn’t an easy feat. In guild wars 1 we needed the gods help to enter the mists, in gw2 it’s certainly become easier , with the new knowledge of the mists and the technology, but what we learn from fractals of the mists is that we cannot control where we go. We ended up in spereate shards within the mists, without direction.

I’m more likely to believe the theory that has been speculated about recently that the Six gods are the equivalent of the elder dragons for their home world.

The theory that the gods became gods by scavenging magical artifacts has a few holes in it though. The bloodstone was designed to seal all magic away, to force the Elder dragons into hibernation. If there were artifacts around that could grant a mortal the power to become a god, it would have been a target for the Elder dragon, and they wouldn’t ahve been forced into hibernation since there would have been powerfull magic still in the world.

As such, if they came without their goldy abilites they wouldn’t have been able to break the seal on the bloodstone and in turn let magic back into the world. They had to have been powerfull beings already to accomplish that.

I feel quite silly that i only learned about this after having redone the instance some times to do the achievements :p

In every mention of the history of humanity and the gods they mention that the gods brought the humans to Tyria. Suggesting that they were already gods before setting food on tyria and arriving at Orr;

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

JerryMain.4371:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The story was solid. I found myself able to forgive the whole bloodstones lore redcon, because it was properly explained in game for once.

Wait what do you mean by this, now I think I have missed something…

There’s a book in the library on the Bloodstones. It explains a lot about why the original Prophecies lore is wrong. It’s basically a redcon, but it is backed up by good writing.

Do you mean the book that states that it wasn’t the human gods who created the bloodstone?

Because, i don’t actually see that as a retcon. It’s a simple matter of looking at it from the eyes of someone more aware of the world. In gw1, it was all about the humans, they were fierce believers in their gods and know them to be the one to grant them magic, which they did technically do. So it’s not impossible to assume that from a human point of view, they see the bloodstone as a creation from their gods. While in gw2, we learn to see so much more than jsut the human perspective. We learn what happened to ancient races and the truth about many things. Including that the bloodstone was made not by the gods but by the forgotten and the other important races at that time. It’s a simple matter of learning more about the world compared to having a rather shortsighted view of the world as the humans had in gw1.

They had no reason to question their gods. The gods however probably knew better of its origins, and maybe saw it to be the safer option to not let their followers, the human know the full truth, the same reason why glint was said to be an ally from the gods and not revealed at that time to be an elder dragon’s champion (yes i know at that time there was no elder dragons)

i guess the point is, tl;dr; when comparing the narrow view of the world we had in gw1 to the more open view that we have in gw2 , it isn’t so much as a retcon but learning new things that weren’t previously known

(i’m gonna stop here because i’m fairly certain i’ve become quite incomprehensible :p)

ps: though then again, that may jsut be a complicated way of saying its a retcon and would add to the point you made that it was backed up by great writing, in which case, ignore me :p

Rukh.9287:

I doubt it. It would be pretty easy to explain how a god isn’t completely dead.

Not when both the physical and magical part of said deity are absolved. The physical died and the magical was absorbed by kormir. There is no more abaddon and it will stay like this.

What can happen is that we learn more about what happened when the gods, and especially Abaddon, released magic back into the world, a story of how/why/what happened, that might give us a view on the relation between the gods and the elder dragons or the consequenses of said choice.

But abaddon is most certainly not returning. A retcon of that nature would pretty much bash in all the lore that has been established and i don’t see that happening.

There is some evidence pointing towards Glint being corrupted rather than created. I’m not talking about what glint said or other sources, but specifically what we know of how Glint looks. It actually might tell us that she was infact corrupted.

We know how Kralkattorik corrupts the lesser beings, namely by turning their flesh into crystal. We also know that he the minions he creates are crystalline structures (like the shatterer) and not made of flesh and bone. As such one can deduct that Glint wasn’t created. Kralkattorik doesn’t have power over flesh and bone,he cannot create a creature made from those. He creates creatures from crystal and turns the creatures he corrupts into crystaline beings. Yes it’s circumstantial, but with what we know, it’s a pretty decent theory and very likely.

Touching upon that, we know that dragon minions have the capability to use gifts they already had from before they were turned. (ex are Scarlets genius mind, Zhaitan’s champion in Sea of Sorrows, etc) As such i believe her telepathy and being an oracle was something she already had, i assume this based from the fact that none of kralkatorrik’s minions have such capabilities. It’s unique to glint (and with that i don’t mean that other creatures don’t ahve that power, simply that, as a minion of kralky, she was the only known one to ahve that gift) I do believe she got something from kralkatorik though when she got turned, namely the ability to make crystal constructs (minions) of her own (as we see in the dragon’s lair mission in gw1) and possible the zephyrite crystals.

I also wanted to touch on what you said, slowepokeking, about the sylvari who told us about the forgotten, glint and the ritual that gave her free will. She isn’t jsut “some” sylvari, she’s been studying forgotten lore, forgotten ruins and their relation to glint. Yes you could argue that she didn’t translate the texts correctly, but that argument would be false, she succesfully performs the ritual the forgotten usd to free glint from kralky, which means that her findings about the forgotten and glint are known to be correct. It’s proven simply by the succes of this ritual. So i dismissing her as “justt some sylvari” is throwing away valid information about glint , information that’s very much important.

It’s true, if you weren’t around when the story journal got introduced you would probably missed that (as have others). It could be made a little bit more clearer i guess.

You don’t have to pay for the previous stuff to be able to play this chapter, you also, don’t have to pay anything to enter the new zones. And you aren’t even requiered to buy the chapters with real money because you can trade ingame gold for gems.

I don’t see a problem with this.

Rukh.9287:

I think we shouldn’t take such things as set in stone anymore.

No it’s pretty much set in stone ^^ Abaddon is not returning, he no longer exists. Whatever form he had in nightfall, was destroyed and his energy, his magic was taken over by Kormir.

While surely Anet has retconned a bit here and there (small stuff) they aren’t gonna retcon something this big. The outlash would be tremendous lol

I do think it’s possible that the release of magic from a sleeping dragon may be similar to a dead dragon, though it could be possible that a dead dragon releases the magic at a higher rate due to there not being any regulations that a sleeping dragon would have (i could be completely wrong with this)

But i don’t think that their “hibernation” is from being killed by the civilizations present at the time, we know that the seers/forgotten/etc didn’t manage to stop the dragons, they only made them hibernate earlier by sealing the magic in the bloodstone. As far as we know there hasn’t been any sign of a former civilization having succesfully slain an elder dragon before. It could be possible, some of the elder dragons may even had predecessors (if we take the conjecture of ogden that glint would have been able to become one in due time) so maybe it’s not necessarily the same dragon that rises again, but one of its champions taking its place.

But all in all, its really all jsut conjecture :p

The book i’m talking about isn’t specifically on mordremoth but about “the all” where he (i think it was the apostate) speculates that these creatures create balance and when one is no longer to do its job, the world will tip over and fall into caos, ofc this is probably some metaphore and this is really not the exact wording so might ahve to go check that again

Huck.1405:

Ok, How does one preview armor pieces in the wardrobe that you don’t have? I used to be able to do this with the PvP armor.

you simply click on them and that should make the preview window appear, both for items you ahve and don’t have.

And they are talking about the wardrobe in the bank, not the hero panel. Go to a bank, choose the wardrobe tab and there you can preview all the armor and weapons in the game.

Siobhan.6027:

Its a teleporter whether or not you want to believe it.

Not necessarily, there is nothing telling you what it is so people judge based on what it looks like. It’s indeed similar to the structures we saw in the crystal desert in the time of guild wars 1, but he does have a point, they do not look the same, as such, you cannot claim with 100% certainty that this is indeed the teleporter and not one of the other structures that were out there.

Well i love the glorious armor they added to pvp , but i don’t play pvp at all. So if i would want it , i’d have to play something i don’t necessarily like. This doesn’t mean Anet is “forcing” me to play a certain way, it’s simply Anet adding incentive to try other playmodes or was of playing or things to do.

There are many cosmetic items that are tied to achievements and not available through playing in the map. And i don’t see that as a mistake. It adds incentive to do something else, and if that something else you really don’t like to do, then you aren’t forced to do it. I love the glorious armor, i’m not a fan of pvp, as such i’m not pvp’ing to get the armor. it’s all a matter of how much you really want it, and its not that it will be removed from the game alter on, so you can always try again later, no need to them immediately after you finished.

I think it was more meant as an easteregg? i don’t really know, only saw it once and it disappeared quite quickly

Randulf.7614:

I presume Sligh refers to the Luminescent Shoulders, (not the Carapace Armour) which is the Collection reward for the achievements in the main story arc. That requires repeating the story

Well the parts of the Luminescant shoulders are findable through playing in the silverwastes though. It’s how you get the luminescnet strap, the shoulderpieces if you don’t wish to replay the story instances and the mordrem parts which you get from defeating the bosses at the end of the eventchain. As such the only thing not available in the sivlerwastes itself is the firefly piece which you ahve to get in caledon and infuse in the silverwastes. Even the ascended trinket that you get from completing all the achievements is available to be bought with bandit crest you get from playing the events in the silverwastes map.

So even if OP wasn’t talking about the carapace shoulders , it still doesn’t require you to relive the story part of this update.

- On the whole “though his corrupted Sylvari have turned to rather sophisticated and elaborate plans” while thrue, isn’t necessarily influenced by mordremoth directly. Ceara before becoming Scarlet was already a genius in every sense of the word, after being corrupted she jsut uses what was already a part of her person, not something she received from mordremoth. Same can be said from Aerin, tho we don’t ahve the same amount of knowledge of him, knowing his primary weapons are grenades and bombs it doesn’t seem unlikely that he was already knowledgable about explosives before corruption and thus , blowing up the zephyritess ship was him using his own specialty for mordremoth, not something mordremoth gave/told him. Ofcourse i may jsut have misinterpreted what you said and nothing of this is really relevant

- There is the possibility that dragon minions fighting one another doesn’t ahve anything with how the elder dragons view the others. Minions often become fanatical towards their respective elder dragon attacking anything that isn’t “one of them” as such other dragon’s minions would classify as not being “one of them” and thus be targets like all the rest, unrelated to how the elder dragons view each other.

- The fact that there were no minions left in the world after their earleir hibernation, makes me thing that after having fed on magic, they call back their minions as a late-night snack, before heading off to bed. just my thoughts ofc
There isn’t really anything to win, the elder dragons ahve shown no sign of wanting to destroy the other, they’ve lived for a very long time and neither now nor from the tales we heard from their last awaking was there ever a sign that they want to be the ultimate winner. It may sut be that they understand the need to balance the world, but hold no sympathy at all for what the costs are for such. ofcourse it’s possible i missed some things, so feel free to bring those up :p

- I think that it isn’t really mordremoth who gives them that intelligence as i said above, so i don’t think that a random orphan corrupted by mordremoth would be able to accomplish the same feats as Scarlet did who was already a genius before the corruption. AS to the regular minions defending the purple giant vine, all dragon minions in essence “protect” a more powerfull being, it doesn’t show their personal intelligence, jsut that that vine might be a “champion” of the dragon (or even part of for all we know) that, just like all other champions has a higher intelligence than the grunts.

About the magic seeping from their carcasses (or their hibernating self) i don’t think it would affect the personality of the creature, but it would be a source that could be tapped into for those who know how. The humans kittenided in orr before it’s destruction weren’t any different in personality, even though zhaitan was seeping magic from his body at the time, they may ahve been more skilled in magic due to being able to tap into its released magic, but i believe that’s all.

Killing mordremoth, from what we read from the book in the priory, is definately going to have consequences, the world needs these beings in some form to balance magic. Without them, the only result can be chaos.

Well technically, the game does tell you what your point is in the new zone. War has started and this is a forward base that’s being set up by the pact, to be able to hold the base, you need to hold key locations to fight the mordrem. You’re defending those forts to fight back and push back the incoming dragon minions.

The pact is trying to establish a foward base of operation in the silverwastes, and to do that, you need to drive back the mordrem who aren’t going to just stand there and let you build up your defenses, so they attack. This patch is about making the push towards mordremoth and that is very clear from playing the game.

So far both my thief and my warrior have been sporting the new shoulders, some minor clipping on my warrior, but she still looks awesome with it

To get another carapce shoulderpiece through replaying the episode you’ll need a different lvl 80 who hasn’t yet done that story. Alternatively, if you do not have other level 80 characters, you can buy the other shoulderpieces at the bandit crest vendor for 1000 bandit crests and 1 gold, or (so i’ve heard, haven’t seen it myself) get it as a rare drop from the endbosses of the meta event.

While 1000 crests seems like a lot, they are quite generous with them if you do the events. So it shouldn’t take all too long to gather it.

Hope that helped

Exactly waht Lordkrall said, once you purchase the luminescent scrap, it gets unlocked in the collection achievement, and is no longer of any use. “Crafting” the luminescent shoulderpiece in that case is untrue, it’s simply unlocking the items needed for the collection, similar to all other collections.

So no need to worry, you’ll still get those shoulderpieces

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Rebound.3409:

The more interesting question is who gave the egg to the Peace guy. Either someone/thing other then the dragon gave the egg to the Master of Peace guy, or that dude is over 200 years old.

That’s why the last question of the LS was “did u see who gave it to him?”

Glint only died 7 years ago. It’s not out of the question for him to have received the egg before she died and be nothing special in the terms of lifespan.

But we know Glint is female, we know how her voice sounds and it wasn’t the heavy male voice we heard here, so while glint may have been alive when he received the egg (there is currently no timeframe for that), it wasn’t her who spoke to the master of peace and told him to protect it.

Iruwen.3164:

draxynnic.3719:

The AoE also protects the boss from any attacks coming from outside the AoE.

Which makes the greatsword even more useless.

The greatsword can hit the boss from outside his AoE just fine, his protective bubble keeps out projectiles, not the greatsword autoattack. It judt won’t do any damage since you need to be within the Aoe circle to be able to damage him.

Also, this makes ALL range weapons useless unless you stand within the Aoe circle, pretty much ANY weapon is useless without standing in the aoe.

Romek.4201:

this thread is soo sad how much people jump on him cause he has bad internet – guess what? noone kitten care when you can download it in 5min it just make you looking like an idiot when you post in a thread like this “nadada but Im cool i have fast internet” – seriously

here in germany we have only good internet in big countrys

i have only LTE from Vodafone till next year october and so i have only download 38kb per month (only 15gb with 21mbit but this is used in a hour)

and yeah this patch policy from arenanet kittenes me off too – patches are very big and i cant skip them even when i dont wanna play helloween content or stuff like this and the worse is after a patch they patch everyday again something cause they failed testing this content before – sure with fast internet no problem but i have to sit hours on this

oh and 38kb is more than enough to play this game fine once it is donwloaded

I’m sorry that some people have bad internet, it sucks that it takes that long to download a patch, but you can’t possibly blame Anet for that. Their patches aren’t that big compared to other games, and what kind of solution would you even propose? To cut the patch in pieces and upload a tiny bit every day? surely that would be even more annoying. Time the patch to not fall during primetime? well that’s impossible, it’s always primetime somewhere, it’s not Anets fault, it’s the whole timezone situation.

tl;dr It sucks for patches to take hours to download, but it’s not Anet’s fault and complzining about it to them will yield absolutely no result, it’s not something they can fix for you.

Brow.9425:

A friend who hasn’t played GW2 since 2013 just got a new computer and said he would play GW2 again. I told him he’d have to buy the entire first half of season 2 and he’s not coming back now. gg anet.

Why not just use ingame gold to buy gems and then get the episodes?

Maybe once Mordremoth is defeated. The dragon bash was specifically to celebrate the fall of Zhaiten, so i’m sure that people will be equally excited once we take care of Mordremoth. Besides, we have a war to fight, no one is in the party’ing mood till the dragon is dealt with

You can get the shoulderpieces from the bandit crest collector, it costs 1000 bandit crests and 1 gold. So you can actually get the pieces by playing in the new map.

But wouldn’t Marjory be able to recognize the voice if it was indeed Logan? They have spoken to one another, if it was him, i’m sure a character know for being an actual detective, would recognize his voice.

Also, when people talk about Glint’s baby, tehy don’t mean the egg. They are talking about Glimmer, the baby dragon that we protected in guild wars 1. Obviously he’d have to still be alive (which we odn’t really know for sure) and can’t have been the one who personally went to marjory (a dragon would be quite conspicuous in DR) but he could ahve sent someone from the zephyrites (not master of peace) to relay the message. while i’m not sure this theorie holds much ground, Glimmer, assuming he has his mothers oracle abilities, would be able to get this information without having to be on the spot.

Anyhow, i personally don’t think it’s logan (it ‘s possible, but doesn’t seem like him) nor Glimmer (because we really don’t even know if he actually exists)

oxtred.7658:

dsslive.8473:

I have done that boss multiple times on my mesmer and it never took longer than 15m. I must be missing something, because i didn’t have any issue killing that boss within a reasonable time.

Best sarcastic post of the day.
I hope.

I wasn’t being sarcastic, i honestly had no issues completing this boss with my mesmer.

I have done that boss multiple times on my mesmer and it never took longer than 15m. I must be missing something, because i didn’t have any issue killing that boss within a reasonable time.

Shriketalon.1937:

What I want to know is simple. What happened to Glimmer?

Ogden says it’s the last egg, but we already had a perfectly healthy baby dragon hatch in GW1. We protected it from harm during Glint’s Challenge. Unless something happened to the little tyke (named Glimmer by someone else on the GW Guru forums), she should still be around. 250 years older, of course, but still a toddler by dragon standards.

We’ve already got a baby oracle dragon. Why are we hatching another?

The egg being the last remaining one, doesn’t exclude the possibility of glimmer still being alive. The reason why the egg is being protected if glimmer is indeed still alive, could simply be that, to protect it. All others were destroyed, i’m assuming when kralky came and killed glint. Maybe it was even Glimmer who handed the master of peace the egg, one egg it managed to save and he gave to the zephyrites to keep it safe.

There’s really a lot of questions surrounding the egg, who handed it to the amster of peace and what its “purpose” is if it ahs one at all. But i’m fairly sure we’ll find out soon enough