Condi thief playing D/D should not be using CnD much. It’s wasting initiative if it’s trying to stealth for extended periods of time without D/P.
Playing berserker will not kill a condi Daredevil either, unless they’re horrible. There is not enough burst in this game currently to counterburst a dire daredevil played even somewhat competently. And that’s coming from me.
- Wait for death blossom
- Burst damage at end of death blossom
- Sorry DecieverX I run DD condi Thief and know exactly how every class can kill it.
- you are correct about CnD though. It’s a waste of resources
What, so base warriors wouldn’t be able to use Bull’s Charge without taking berserker? No thanks, Bull’s Charge is a useful skill on base warrior with all the recent buffs to it, whereas Headbutt isn’t nearly as good without access to Outrage. If you don’t like the flavor of the skill, just don’t use it.
I agree with you except for the part about headbut not being useful without outrage berserk mode can break stun, so you can headbut, berserk mode, and never miss a beat.
I still don’t understand this condition warrior and I never will. I know that this game supports such thing as a condition warrior, but seriously show me any other fantasy concept of warrior that kills you slowly by bleeding you to death…
Guild Wars 1: Cleave Bleeder
It was a popular build for a time where the warrior would cleave you you health with every bleed stack. keep in mind, in that game the cleave effect (deep wound) basically limited the amount of hp you could heal. So if you were at 100% and the warrior hit you down to 90% your max hp was now 90% for a few seconds… What the Cleave bleeder did was stack this effect with the conditions, which meant that it would continually cleave you for small amounts that kept resetting the cleave effect. so your opponent watched their max HP whither away to nothing.
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I would not have a problem with the revealed thing, if they had not done the backstab cool down. Like, really? so now it’s harder to land backstab, and on top of that everyone has a way t reveal us?
I posted a D/D Condi guide specifically explaining how to kill the build. the long and short of it is, this:
- Play Deffensive
- Wait for death blossom
- Hit me at the end of Death blossom with your biggest burst.
- if you are a DH, ignore all that and juts kill me.
Another thing is that he had the drop on you off the bat. A thief who manages to get the initial drop on you, with that much burst will be very hard to deal with. Regardless of condi or not. To be honest that thief played it perfectly in the video except for one thing. He should have stealth stomped you. Maybe he had no stealth proc, or maybe he just screwed up, but had you been fighting me and i got the drop on you like that, you’d have been dead before your buddy arrived.
Normally in a 1v1 with a thief, you cycle through your defensive abilities while doing damage to me, but because he jumped you before you had a chance toprepare it was his match.
I think Final thrust would be fine if it had a much shorter cast. its already super close range. Leap in with savage leap then Final thrust. Or if you could cast it during movement for the same effect.
Updated the guide and placed it in a google doc.
I’ve been using a condition thief in spvp lately. I have so many dodges I feel indestructible. I can survive a 4v1 long enough to get my teammates to come to my aid (if we have voice coms up).
I still run and decap, but I don’t have to run from 1v1’s… or sometimes even 1v2s. The damage is nuts.
I love thief.
Inhale
Well, that’s because condi (D/D I assume) is stupidly easy for how effective it is, almost impossible to punish 1v1 if you play with half a brain, and pretty much nobody has means to deal with in when playing against the meta.
Exhale
Inhale
- Kite and wait for death blossom
- Burst as Death blossom ends
Exhale
I got to diamond on my gingerbread man build this season, then i stopped playing for four weeks because of life stuff. Thief can still make the cut, but you have to be willing to play though it’s weaknesses, which are many.
I will probably not go back to thief next season. My warrior is calling me, but i enjoyed my visit on the class.
Actually, you are only partially correct there. The after cast for blossom is big but if you time your dodge correctly you cans get into the dodge the instant it ends. This is why a good gingerbread man will not spam Death blossom. We instead DB only when we need time to refresh endurance. My build in particular has enough endurance that one death blossom usually gives me the time i need to gain another dodge.
??? what are to talking about. Exotics have the same stats as their ascended cousins. Exotic Berserker’s is the same stats are Ascended Berserkers (Zojia’s) stats.
lol Hoaxingintelligence, suck up :p
2.8.2. Roster requirements: each team must have five unique professions represented on their roster during any given pro league match.
This is why. ESL Does not allow you to run with more that one DH, meaning the DH cannot take advantage of their synergy with one another.
one DH on a team is not so bad.
It’s refreshing to see a Guardian that requires skill to play. I’ve been hit by this build in PvP and it hurts when played right. A friend of mine says it turns a Guardian into a reverent because the teleport burst with the sword.
^this is very accurate.
1. both. you should be able to dodge both.
2. That’s another problem. a trap should not be a stun breaker.
What is used in Pro League cannot be equated to what is used my the vast majority of players. For one thing, you are limited to one copy of a class per team. The DH is never a problem when there is just one an another team. It’s when DHs are everywhere that things get stupid.
Having said that, What would need to change about DH? I’m not sure. but here are some ideas.
- ToF: you should be able to dodge out of it without taking damage. As it stand it is damage which cannot be avoided when the trap is insta dropped on you.
- DH Virtues should not stack with Vanilla Virtues Traits. As it stand DH Virtues are just super powered versions of their vanilla counterparts.
- No traps should ever be instant cast. (That goes for all classes)
I’m going to stop there because any further risks completely crippling the class.
If you are talking about portal entre. there is no hacking involved in it. its a mesmer skill.
also I went ahead and skimmed your previous messages using the “view all messages feature” I am fairly convinced you just create posts with the sole purpose of starting pointless discussions. there is very little basis in fact in anything you have posted. like this post most of it is just statements of something that you don’t like with no explanation as to what you are talking about.
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You are forgetting torment and confusion
not bad advice, but what about if they are using Withdraw?
unless he cancels his own heal withdraw will put the thief in a unfavorable position where u may profit from. tho hes losing heaps of offen- and defensive potential without CV cause its 85 endurance with more heal on less cd for the class who profits most from endurance. even the first pulse heals more then pulmory impact hurts u.
Honestly staff perma evade thief is worse in team fights. I have seen them so confident in their evades they go berserker and pop 6-9k vaults. It is also the passive acrobatics trait they buffed thief with. 50% hp 2 seconds of evade was bound to make perma evade thief toxic on power or condition.
vault hits hard but the chance is very low to hit above average opponents because its just too obvious. I dont think the instant reflexes makes sense in any kind of pvp build compared to pain response. Just like Panice Strike or Executioner u can easily anticipate the next moves.
I happen to play Gingerbread Man, and I use withdraw. you should know that you can aim where you withdraw to. It is very rare for me to end up where i don’t want to end up when i use it. all you have to do is spin your camera in the opposite direction you want to withdraw too. Its even easier with Combat Camera
Here are the weeknesses of Gingerbread Man
Can’t Chace
AOE’s
Traps
Stuns
Well timed Bursts both condi and power
We cannot run away. Once in a fight we cannot fall back, especially if you get a condi burst on us.
Condi Classes
- Get a Condi burst on us, then stop attacking.
- Kite us and Watch our bar and see if we clear the condi.
- Only start attacking again if we clear them.
Power Classes
- Play defensive until we use Death Blossom
- Burst us as our Death Blossom comes to an end
I posted this very detailed information to prove to you you CAN win against us easilly and the build is not cheap. It’s annoying to play against, yes. But once you know how to beat it it’s a joke. The only reason we play it is because of lack of options. you can thank yourself for that because you all wanted to nerf thief into the ground.
Well, that is definitely a build with a lot of power. and ferocity it seems as well, but honestly it has absolutely no defense. like yes, if you get the first shot off, whatever yu hit is going to hurt, but if you don’t you are screwed.
Wait, you are complaining about this being annoying and think it does not need a buff?
Well, take it away thief community.
Also, thief is at its lowest right now and you want to need it because it annoys you? What was the 1s CD on stealth attacks not crippling enough for you? Evade is the only truly defensive ability a thief has and you want to take that away. Sure we have stealth but only one weapon set can effectively use it and it does not stop damage it just makes you invisible. Channelled skills still hit us in stealth.
Okay that’s true. WoW had the Palladian for ever. Oh wait…..
not bad advice, but what about if they are using Withdraw?
You left something out lumpy. you forgot the “>Combo”
That’s actually there for a reason. After your initial burst>Swap>Burst, you will have 4-5 seconds (depending on the burst skill you used) where you cannot swap weapons. in this case you should be using your weapon skills co combo. For example,
Skull Grinder>Swap>Scorched Earth>Rage SkilL if any>Fan of Fire>Arcing Shot>Swap>Skull grinder…etc.
@Lumpy, yes pop it every time it’s off cooldown. Every 15 seconds getting 5% Damage returned as healing for 5 seconds is something you want active as much as possible.
Blood reckoning is not a burst heal. it’s a heal based on how much damage you are throwing out. Sure, it recharges all your burst skills but by the time you cast it, most of your burst skills will be off cooldown anyway, and you should be swapping weapons every 5 seconds anyway so you should always have a burst skill off cooldown. As long as you are playing aggressive (and in PVE you should be) you will find that having 5 seconds of 10% damage returned as healing, while building massive amounts of adrenaline will be a massive boon.
Another interesting thing about blood reckoning, It actually is less effective on berserker than it would be on vanilla. Here’s why.
- Berserker already massively increases your adrenaline gain. In this case Blood reckining is wasted as you already have headbutt, Berserker’s stance, and weapon swaps for adrenaline gain.
- Primal bursts are already on ridiculously low cooldowns. in this case refreshing them is pointless as you can only 1: use one at a time 2: always have one off cooldown because you can swap weapons every 5 seconds.
- Blood reckoning does not convert condition damage to healing, so the main build which may want to use it has no synergy with it whatsoever.
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If you run what i’m running. you have 3 stun breakers, one is on a 12 seconds cooldown, the other is on a 12s cooldown. You should be evading most dazes anyway.
You should not be staying on any weapon long enough to spam one burst skill over and over again( except maybe Skull Grinder) once you get into berserk mode your rotation should be
Burst> Swap> Burst> Combo> Burst> Swap> Burst
Which one are you Running specifically. The one i run works great in all formats.
Personally i use withdraw, but the physical heal works well too as long as youdon’t get interupted
Won’t be done for awhile. but it will be linked in the first post in the Warrior 101 Thread. which you can go to now by going back to the warrior forums, and looking at the very top its sticky-ed there for your convenience
I’ll be updating Warrior 101 very shortly to include theory crafting section. but what i have so far will be great for you.
should have added /sarcasm to my post. sorry for the confusion.
Um i think you misunderstood something., but i’m not going to bother arguing for SB. Most thieves will already suggest using SB on weapon swap regardless of build.
I will say, that if you insist that D/D on weapon swap is superior to SB on weapon swap, you need to go back and theory craft some more.
Double dagger on swap is a waste of ability. just run shortbow. you’ll have the ability to disengage, more mobility, and you can still dodge spam while using the shortbow. you just have to play correctly.
P/d with needle trap and respite will destroy perma evade condi. The P/D build can be CORE and handle the DD evade builds handily. The higher the condition duration the better as that 2 second body shot immob then comes into play.
The evade build can not function it it always immobbed.
LOL. Oh how little you know about the Gingerbread Man if you think it’s ever scared of Immobilize. Or Dazes, or Condi, or anything save Unavoidable, unblockable, un-dodgable damage or traps and anything with a condi spike at least on par with a properly used Plague Signet
I use Physical skills in my build. and you do it for the endurance. if you ever run out of endurance and your heal is off cooldown, you use bandit’s defense to but you first 3 seconds of block, then you get at least one dodge back, and that should give you time to heal and get your endurance back. Then, if you still need a little extra uumph you also can kick to buy time. Also it is great when using Impact strike for a stomp because if you need to bail on the stomp you at least got endurance back. Finally it makes bandit’s defense active every 12 seconds so every 12 seconds you get blocks and endurance and a stun. Also Bandit’s defense is a stun break meaning if they get through your auto stun breaker you can break stun and protect yourself ….theres just way to many reasons to take it.
Far.
Obindo, you are a hero. lol
The Warrior Redone one was…
Blood Reckoning is really good in PVE. Use it like you would use troll urgent, pop it every time its off cooldown. Other than that i cannot help you, because Blood reckoning does indeed suck in every other mode of play.
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Sorry for the the double post. Can someone let me know if the comments on the document are on? i really want people to be able to comment on the Document to help with he project.
The build is just there to augment your own ability. You want the play the build that suits both your team, counters the other team as best you can and mechanics suitable to your skill level on the class.
Case in point, your team has no bunker, you can play DH and scrapper. But you’re feeling off today. Pick DH for the lower mechanical floor since you won’t be making the most out of scrapper, despite it being the better pick if you have the ability to max it out.
Similarly, say your opposition has 2 DHs and you team also has 2DHs (pretty common). Picking rifle warrior is superior to a condi macebow or a melee GS/x build because you can take advantage of your DH meatshields to blow up the enemy DHs while not getting blasted by PBAoE. On the other hand if the other team has a druid, an ele and a DH, you might pick the melee GS/x build to avoid magnetic aura and sublime conversion.
Played well, with a build tailored to each game, I think a warrior is perfectly capable of holding their own in solo queue. Sometimes you’re gonna get cheesed by a 3 dragon’s maw+PoB DH comp, or go rifle warrior and end up farmed by a ridiculously good thief all game, but I think warrior is in a pretty good place with 2 viable builds and one situational build.
All True, or at least Logical. Thanks.
@kdaddy, I answered your question in a PM. Also, i disagree with your analysts. It’s not 50% Skill and 50% Build. some builds require very little skill to get the most out of. Mace/shield, Bow. is one of those builds. It is very forgiving for mistakes (like not swapping every 5 seconds, etc) That’s what Metabuilds are, The easiest build to play with the highest amount of success. This is not a bad thing, it’s just not what you describe. A build can carry you very far, but eventually you’ll need some skill to bring the most out of a class. this is not something you can measure with math.
Part of a Thief’s ability to support is based on Stealth, And Venoms are support skills., even if they suck at the job they are supposed to be doing. Also, it would be impossible to dedicate an entire trait line just to stealth. Venoms have to go somewhere. This far i have attempted to place everything in a place that makes sense. DA for conditions, CS: for damage, etc. It just so happens that SA: is the support line.
Also, i should point out that i made no changes to the Shadow Arts Line. so to answer your first question….always? or at least since HoT.
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In WVW I run D/D, Shortbow. Personally i run Full Celestial, (because i had the gear already) and i have a higher DPS then what you listed. I understand yu did not list everything the build does, but i would be remiss if i did not point out that the build also has Caltrops and Lotus on dodge, permanent Regeneration, Vigor, and Swiftness in combat, Confusion on steal, Poison stacks via Shortbow 4>Lotus or Blossom, Torment on interrupt (if you want to go that way), and the ability to solo up to 3 players at a time while at the same time capping a a camp. if built correctly the build will never run out of endurance, and initiative.
I know i’m not making a good case for this not to get nerfed, but it is fairly cheesy. Its also fun as hell while not being over powered.