Guild Wars 2

lol, Arc Divider is so stupid. i mean i love it and all, but really? i think it may be the biggest AOE in the game right now.

Zero Day.2594:

There isn’t.

It’s the easiest class in game, with perma stealth, perma dodge, and 1-shot backstabs/skills.

Rebuttle

• Not the easiest class in the game. (where are you getting this? If anything warrior is easiest, at least to learn. DH probably is the easiest to win with at lower skill levels. Thief is probably the hardest to learn and perfect, though I can admit there are some easy specs. (gingerbread man is easy to learn, hard to make viable though)

• Does not have perma stealth, only has one weapon set which grant’s viable access to stealth. Every thing else is a utility skill, or Cloak and Dagger, which BTW, is in no way viable.

• No thief can one shot you. We have to use pretty much al of our cooldowns chained together within a few seconds to kill you quickly enough to seem like a one shot, and the cooldown for doing that is outrageous. Also doing thatrequires that we actually succeed on the first attempt, otherwise we loose. If we miss one ability we are screwed, and that IF you don;t have any passives to stop the initial assault, which almost everyone does.

• Warriors have Defy Pain
• Necro’s have Shroud
• Guardians have Aegis
• Mesmers have an Auto daze. (it is an auto daze on stun right? not a mesmer)

Those are the ones I know off the top of my head. of those the only one i know a way around is Aegis but doing that requires me to sacrifice a utility skill for Impairing daggers.

what having trouble killing warriors? sorry, but it irks me when people forget exactly how useless the warrior was without the AH change. The healing from AH is fine.

I can agree that Primal burst skills should not give 3 stacks of AH. That needs changed to 1 stack per primal burst. make the berserker have to build stacks just like a vanilla warrior. They already gets tons of stuff for entering berserk.

Actually, yes. Yes it is. The Idea of an agile thief who relies on evasion rather than toughness or healing to negate damage is a great idea. It fits the Thief very well.

So /gg this.

Thieves who have speced purely into evasion do so because it is the best and if you want to get serious about it, only option for sustain. It is not a broken mechanic, because it can be easilly countered, and the only reason you and others complain about ti is because you hate missing your big burst combo that should erase a thief otherwise. You hate seeing “Evade” when you thought you could end the fight quickly, and you wanted to end the fight quickly. don’t try and pretend this has anything to do other than you wanting to roll over whatever you fight with little effort. The Gingerbread man build requires effort to pull off what they do. It may look like the thief is just spamming 3 and V, but we are not. We are utilizing every skill on our bar, managing endurance, initiative, and our (in the case of Gingerbread Man) three stun breaks. One mistake costs us the fight, and if you manage to burst us at the right time nothing we do will save us.
A thief who specs for burst condi damage has to blow all of their cooldowns in order to bust you. We then have to wait at least 25 seconds to do that burst again. plenty of time to kill us if you clear the burst.
A vault theif has to hope you don’t hit them with a burst after they vault. and if they kill you before you get the chance then you also did not have time for the dodge spam to become a factor. The bust killed you before you could react.

I’ll say this again:

• against DD, wait for Blossom, hit us with your burst at the end of the Blossom.
• Vault, wait for the after cast of vault, then hit us with your burst
• If we get the drop on you, you’ll be at a disadvantage, there’s nothing you can do about that, the thief outplayed you.

On another note, what is NOT good for the game is the way that they have created Elite specs in general nerfing the core classes to the point of uselessness without the elite spec was a b*** move by Anet. Every single elite spec in this game with the debatable exception of berserker has made the core class obsolete

you don’t need to lock a thief down to kill them. you just need to burst them at the right time.

Ezrael.6859:

Caedmon.6798:

That dh gameplay looks so braindead..The guy just stands there,no dodge not even once..Its stupid how people can win by this kind of gameplay,Just pop ze traps and stand still…Oh man.

Guardians are a heavy armour class with the least mobility in the game.

They have few teleports, no evasion utility or weapon skills and little to no access to Vigor.

They are built around area control and holding ground through all of their weapons, traits and utilities. That is the class concept.

What exactly do you expect in a fight with them you complete oaf?

Guardians are designed to be immobile and control an area, they are not a light footed evasion class like a Thief.

You want brainless? How about a 1200 range teleport that automatically puts you behind your target in stealth to perform what would be a skill based attack in any other RPG.

First, You are woefully misinformed about what a guardian was designed to do. Guardian’s were designed as front-line support. They were never designed and never worked as area control or holding ground in anything. They were built to charge in with the warriors providing them with boons, healing, and dishing out their own damage. they needed heavy armor for this, but have lower health pools to balance their massive access to boons. Your understanding about guardian’s and what they are supposed to be has obviously been tainted by HoT Specializations.

Dragon hunters are back line damage dealers made to hold a point. I don’t like DH (or any elite spec really) because they are horribly designed in general, and a DH pretty much hard counters any thief build except P/P. Yes you can win against a DH as a thief, but the edge will always be with the DH assuming the thief cannot run away, reset, and come back with a better setup.

Just a few more points here. First, You neglected to mention that a DH’s teleport is on an extremely short cooldown and is widely accepted to be one of the best weapon skills in the game.
Second, DH is a brainless class to play. In WVW it’s a little less brainless, because your opponents are not forced to step into your traps on a point. But it’s still very brainless. Third, did you seriously try and say that a steal>backstab is brainless? You sir have no idea what you are talking about. Steal is on a base 30 second cooldown, does 0 damage untraited, and does not put us in stealth untraited. on top of that steal does not put us behind you, we have to do that on our own or steal from behind or to the side.

It is my great pleasure to inform you that the thief as a profession has more skill in it’s little finger than your DH has in it’s entire spec. Go back to the DH thread and troll some other player, because the thieves here will eat you alive.

I think this thread has gone just about as far as it can. Heh.

wonders if he should argue this point

• Burst>Swap>burst. is missing from that “rotation.”

Decides to argue it.

• Elementalists have rotations
• DD Evasion thieves have Rotations
• DH has rotations
• Necros have rotations
• Mesmers have rotations
• Engineer’s have rotations
• Warriors do not because their weapon and skill cooldowns are on a separate timer from their burts. If it’s easier to think of the way you play warrior as a “rotation” thats fine, but its not really a rotation. There are “rotations” with the warrior, but ive always found i have better DPS by knowing what skill will combo well into and out of a burst skill. For example in your example I would put whirlwind at the end of the GS chain, then swap to rifle and spam my 3. I would not even waste time with Rush until i switched back to GS and then i’d charge in with it and go into my burst/swap/burst combo. And thats not a rotation because what i do is entirely dependant on positioning of whatever i’m fighting. It does not really matter in PVE (even with Raid bosses) but in WvW and PVP it makes a world of difference.

No, there are combos. but no rotations. A rotation would be something like D/D Cele Attunement swap pattern. It is a continuous loop which combo’s all the feilds you lay down. Warriors don’t do that. We have Combo Strings, but at any time you will have to change your pattern to adjust to a situation.

Headbutt>Berserk>F1>100b>F1>Blood Reckoning>F1>Whirlwind>Rush>AAx3>F1

Is not a rotation. its a combo, which is not even very effective, you are wasting your bursts with that Combo.

There are rotations in PVE, but in PvP, WvW, warriors are a reactive class that constantly adjusts their play to a situation.

Warriors don’t have rotations. At least not as a general rule. PVE there are some rotations. (just posted one in another thread)

OP,
I’d like to suggest something very easy.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJEQRAsX8fnckCtki9kCWhAElilqATpHE7yBILuGQA4t0uajtA-ThhAQBVT9nrp8DG7PAtTCQNVCCgnAAA-e

This is a very cheep to get started build. It’s Also extremely fun and effective. You can Swap out Last Blaze for smash brawler, And the Rage skills for stances and healing signet if you need too have more sustain and the build is still very good in PVE.

Usage

• Start on Sword/Torch
• Pop your heal.
• Pop Torch 5
• Swap
• Pop Axe 5 and LOL at the burn stacks.
• Enter Berserk
• Burst, Burst, Swap, Burst
• Torch 4
• Rage Skills
• Repeat all steps

Forget what you heard about Conditions requiring ramp up. Burning starts to hurt immediately. and you’ll be spreading your burning across all mobs nearby. The build is extremely fun to play. Mobs are not smart enough to clear your conditions, so you can just roll over most enemies.

Shout Warrior? Really? wow, okay, listen, tell your guild leader to Read my Warrior 101, and maybe also review the patch notes for the last, i don’t know…2 years? Shouts were nerfed a long time ago to the point where they are useless. Also, the shout build was never meant to be a zerg build. It was great for Commanders, because it allowed them to stay alive.

Defense, Discipline, Berserker is good in all situations. It has plenty of damage especially with GS and Full Zerk, and plenty of sustain. I’ll admit it’s not optimized for PVE, but when you are out healing pretty much everything, and cleaving through them with unlimited bursts, and ignoring the most powerfull attacks coming your way, its hard to die, and therefore hard to fail.

Corrected some Spelling Errors. Removed a few rogue punctuation marks.

Celestial Hybrid /zerk weapons/ malandru’s Runes. but I run a commander build.

IMO the Build that requires the most skill to pull off is Full Signet D/D. This is the build you run just to see

• Playerx did 6,525 Damage with Cloak And Dagger
• PlayerX did 20,525 Damage with Backstab
  In your combat log.

The Build has an unforgivable amount horrid weaknesses but if you land a hit on pretty much anything it will crash them to desktop. that’s just how scary seeing 20,525 damage pop up above your head is right before you die.

(I should not that amount of damage is off the top of my head based on WvW having full food, stone and banner buffs. It may be off by 1 or 2k)

I like Silvar1, and i take the verdant weapons, and cultural armor. (just don’t use Female, Arborist Armor, as I think I’m the only Silvari who uses it, and i’d like to remain unique)

kash.9213:

emkelly.2371:

The way I set it up actually ruins the Ginger Bread man (Trickery, Acrobatics, Daredevil) infinite dodge build, but it Massively improves the Condi Burst DD build (Trickery, Deadly Arts, Daredevil) build while still keeping it balanced.
Thief Redone
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10VLmRZU45W6aGotovBVhIcv2HYOGpkRDAz6g6ej9kFs/edit

I looked through your redone thief but couldn’t find where it ruins the Acro/trick/DD build if there’s even a standard build in there, everyone here seems to have a different loadout, it almost seems like my build would be stronger with your changes. Whatever I’m missing, I would be pretty offended if my (ginger bread man? not calling it that) build were given gimmicky or compartmental changes in favor any condition build.

It does not actually SAY it nerfs it. What it does is place all of the condition Traits into the Deadly arts line. This means that you can’t take Trickery, Acrobatic, Daredevil and constantly spam Bleeding, Torment, Confusion and Cripple through Caltrop+Lotus. You can still do the dodge spam, but the Gingerbread build would be pure sustain+support.

Also, yes it’s Gingerbread Man. “Run, run, as fast as you can, you can’t catch me, I’m the Gingerbread Man!”

Also, Also, The following builds are two flavors of Condition Builds.

Trickery, Deadly Arts, Daredevil

• Burst Condition Damage.
• Most use at least one Venom if not two or three.

Trickery, Shadow Arts, Deadly Arts

• Burst damage
• Focus on Remaining in stealth while harassing your foe with traps

Trickery, Acrobatics, Daredevil

• Condition pressure.
• Constantly applies bleeding, torment, cripple, And confusion while abusing evasion frames as much as possible. The build has much less burst damage, but once you get it going it stacks on massive bleeds.

It’s….it’s in the Stickies. but here ya go.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hqSBTU7naW1TW5Z_ZRLuyiWnBUO4Zz_9Ta0u0CZQX8Y/edit

I’d love the Communities feedback and suggestions for this. we warriors did this sort of thing in an attempt to convince Anet that we needed fixed. And it worked, so I thought I’d update this. I’m doing this for fun, and would love to hear your feedback.

I have opened the comments, And will try and address any issues as they come up.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10VLmRZU45W6aGotovBVhIcv2HYOGpkRDAz6g6ej9kFs/edit

When the game came out thieves were very well designed. Its all the changes that have come along since that have removed their abilities slowly over time. Unlike warrior who was nerffed constantly for several patches in a row with thief it has been a very slow proccess of removing their core functionality. this makes it harder to fix the problems because restoring thwe thief functionality would require a massive change to what the class currently is.

Things that need fixed

• Bring back stealth, either by removing the revealed state or by increasing stealth times or ways to go into stealth. Reasoning: more and more classes are getting revealing abilities to the point where thieves cannot rely on stealth as much. But they still need to rely on stealth.
• Remove the Cooldown on stealth attacks. Reasoning: the Cooldown actually goes against the concept of initiative, and forces a thief to land EVERY SA in order to be effective. One missed SA ruins your day, and with the lack of stealth effectiveness this just hurts us more. It has been said before but there is no good reason for this nerf.

• Traits need to be moved to their correct Trait line. In my Thief redone post i outlined what needed to be done to fix the thief. The way I set it up actually ruins the Ginger Bread man (Trickery, Acrobatics, Daredevil) infinite dodge build, but it Massively improves the Condi Burst DD build (Trickery, Deadly Arts, Daredevil) build while still keeping it balanced. In that build (linked bellow) you either can choose to go full condi burst, For Damage Burst, or Full Evasion Sustain (which was tweaked to allow the thief to become a support build. Reasoning : As it stands three trait lines are so mandatory that you cannot take advantage of three other trait lines effectively. Thief redone attempts to fix this by giving each roll their own trait line. So every trait line has their place and each trait line is useful

Thief Redone
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10VLmRZU45W6aGotovBVhIcv2HYOGpkRDAz6g6ej9kFs/edit

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

There’s no convincing you that multiple HS casts don’t make more sense.

Your original argument was based around wasting endurance – the 10s cooldown claim – versus initiative, which are arguably equally-accessible in terms of their effective cooldowns.

Bound doesn’t just look good, though; it works effectively for what it’s designed to do, and it allows for things which simply cannot happen on the core thief, like letting S/P and P/P get sustained stealth access and bump already-high damage. Dash in essence is the old Acro build in a nutshell, while Bound is half-SA half-DA. I think you’re stuck on trying to find the better trait of the two when in all reality it’s heavily matchup and play dependent. You’ll see inherently more Dash players in sPvP due to the mobility bonus it has, while you’ll see a very even split if not favoring Bound these days in WvW where said mobility often doesn’t really matter.

S/P and P/P is not the topic here, it’d D/P using Bound. As I’ve already mentioned, Bound only look good against bad players who don’t know to fight against a Bounding Thief. Condition damage and CC kills Bounding Thieves really easy since if they cannot evade an attack, they cannot cleanse, which forcing them to use a long CD cleanse — after that they die.

Denying a thief its EA cleansing isn’t unique to bound, either. Frankly, playing to deny EA cleansing is even more significant when against Dash players since cover conditions like Cripple/Chill will be cleansed allowing EA to proc more DoT effects, while Bound players can still be overwhelmed with relative ease.

The real difference is, if a Bounder is immobilized, they are sitting duck while they are loaded with conditions. A Dasher can dodge out of immob and evade whatever other attacks coming in after that and any conditions already on the Dasher will be resisted dealing 10% less damage, while the Bounder will take full damage.

The bottom line is that D/P doesn’t need Bound to be effective, it just makes D/P more gimmicky.

I don’t really disagree with anything you said, but i should point out that the thread topic is actually the dodge spam meta. (this includes both bound and Lotus span regardless of what the initial post says. Neither are really meta however.

Well, It’s warrior we are talking about, so anything with defense line. Warriors have great self heal as long as you have the defense line.

If you want a bunker you are barking up the wrong tree. Warriors Depend on getting off their bursts, and damaging. we have just enough ehaling to keep us alive long enough to win a fight (even 2 or 3v1) but you are never going to be able to just ignore all damage because you just out heal it.

Play agressive, Get those bursts off, build your AH to max stacks, and know when to dodge or use your active defenses and you will be a force to be reckoned with, but don’t try and be a pure bunker.

The only option for pure survival on a warrior is the Celestial Comander. And unless you are a dedicated Comander I don’t suggest it. It’s expensive and you are basically just trying to stay alive so your zerg does not fall apart. Even this build relies on being aggressive and it will never win a 1v1. It will just survive forever when in a zerg. you’ll be one of the last to die which as a commander is what you want.

A thief’s thing is supposed to be:

WVW
*Roaming,

• Steal camps,
• Take out Roamers
• Take out Scouts
• In a Zerg their roll is to make the Zerg Stealthy.
• This has been taken away from them over the years. little by little

PVP

• Steal Objectives
• Kill quickly and then get out.
• Decap
• Kill Lords
• This has also been taken away form Them. (I main a warrior so i wont say “us”)

^ This. Exactly this.

you tried to fight a DH.

But if you want to know how to whin that fight. Run Impairing Daggers and Fist Flurry

From Stealth: Impairing daggers> Backstab>Steal>Fist Flurry

Impairing daggers will break through his initial agis, then the rest will Delete him. (of course that depends on you getting the drop on him)

BlaqueFyre.5678:

emkelly.2371:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Thief is like marmite: great in the places it should be, beyond terrible in places it shouldn’t. If you don’t like the flavour, stop trying to put marmite in your corn flakes.

no, wait. Seriously can we go back to this please? Marmite is the most disgusting thing in the world. It does not matter what you put it on. Marmite is a foul death paste and should be burned from existence.

Let me guess you eat Veggimite

No I eat Peanut Butter and Jelly like a good American!

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Thief is like marmite: great in the places it should be, beyond terrible in places it shouldn’t. If you don’t like the flavour, stop trying to put marmite in your corn flakes.

no, wait. Seriously can we go back to this please? Marmite is the most disgusting thing in the world. It does not matter what you put it on. Marmite is a foul death paste and should be burned from existence.

Not that any of that matters anyway. There was no valid reason for the ICD anyway. Even if five attacks some how came from stealth that’s just pulling 5 booms which most classes could just replace anyway. In my opinion Anet only put an ICD on the stealth attack so that players would have a reason to buy HOT. Think about it. Before this core this was still viable. Now thief is useless without dare devil.

Ps: A net, if you are reading this, I’m on to you, and I’m calling you out. The minute you start nerfing classes to force players to spend more money instead of creating actual good and original content that we want you have lost me as a customer…

As proof I cite the following:

• you nerfed spirits on rangers just before HOT. Then HOT comes out and druid is a support spec…which means spirits become useless..

• you absolutely gutted warriors, then HOT comes out and berserker became only viable option, but you were forced to make changes when the entire community came together to protest….

• the same can be said about other professions , and the pattern is clear, whenever you want us to spend money you purposefully nerf something and then either introduce something that we now need to be viable again, or you nerf something for no reason knowing that the new content will suddenly be needed.

water feilds are almost obsolete now that you have druids.

DeceiverX.8361:

I believe the infamous June ‘15 patch actually improved D/D performance in sPvP as if I’m not mistaken they normalized CnD to a 1.25 coefficient from 1.0 (and brought WvW’s down from 1.5 to 1.25).

D/D will absolutely never be as good as D/P just because that utility in highly-skilled environments matters more. It doesn’t really matter how good the player is and was – there were many excellent D/D players some years ago who quite frankly may have been just as good as the pros, but there is no way to prove these claims now or then because they have since moved on and the set was not and never was competitive enough (except at launch when it was overpowered) due to the lack of utility.

D/D, functionally, is largely a one-dimensional kit. To make it work as well as D/P, it requires more skill to play just as effectively in higher-skill environments. That said, because of the limitations on its kit, it will plateau when against other meta builds much more quickly than D/P, even in the hands of the “better player”.

For D/D to become a top-tier competitive set, OH dagger needs numerous improvements, other professions and abilities need nerfs, and Death Blossom requires a rework in its entirety. You can be excellent on D/D but it genuinely does not matter because the skill gaps at the highest tiers of play are just not substantial enough to let it work due to the innate weaknesses of the kit and simply how good the players at the top really are and how evenly they play.

I don’t think you and I are ever going to agree on thief lol. Mind you, I don’t think you are wrong (in that i think you make sense) but I don’t think you are correct either.

• DB does not need a rework.
• Dare devil (and all other elite specs) are just stupidly designed.
• It’s not a skill gap that separates D/D’s from D/P, it’s lack of options.
• Thief has no sustain without sacrificing burst their only strength (Burst Damage) they are the only class that has this problem.
• It’s not a skill gap problem; rather, it’s that thieves have no room for learning. there is no room for making mistakes at all with a thief unless you run a pure evasion build. in order to kill one opponent a thief needs to blow most of their cooldowns and all of their initiative (even if they get that initiative back through the use of other skills).

Honestly DeceiverX, I respect you as a player, but I’ve also fought you on my thief. Last season i was new to thief, so it was not a skill gap issue.

Yes, and I try to keep it that way. I only update it when there big change to warrior, or amulets/stats/runes that may effect it.

Edit: oh, no i don’t think that one is. sorry thought you meant my guide.

Warrior Warhorn, has got to be the weakest off hand weapon in the game. It still has it’s uses but unless you are a commander it’s not really worth taking it.

Actually i know how to kill even Good DH’s with thief. (I can;t do it but i’ll tell you the build.)

ID+BS+Steal+Flurry= dead anything except warriors and i properly played mesmer.

wrong thread. wrong person, sorry

Orpheal.8263:

A perfect thread that shows, how cluelessly peopel want to see Thief nerfed, when its basically just a personal case of “learn to play” or just in this case.. learn the class you want to see nerfed, before you shout it out to be nerfed.

Theres a difference in evade thieves..

There are those with condi builds, that evade you with condi spam together to death.
This become due to HoT just more cancerous thanks to the condi dodge style that addes to all dodges more condi damage spam

There are those, which use them effectively only to avoid dangerous attacks and otherwise fight you with stealth and burst attacks, because they know how to hurt you bad quickly and when and where it hursts the most, that are the pro thieves, which know how to dodge and these players dodge really only, when its absolutely neccessary, they don’t spam dodge, because they know very well how quickly this can bring them into a bad situation if they should ever run out of ini or dodges when its the most needed.

And then there are Troll Dodgers, people which builded their thieves just for the sole purpose, to annoy their enemies to hell, just to show you, how good of survivalists they are andhow long they can avoid from being hit by you, because thats their only way they have to get some attention in their poor lives by trolling people with that build in WvW, thats essentialyl what emkelly described (not that I described now what I think of him, please don’t missunderstand, but thats personally the type of thief I as thief self hate the most to fight against lol xD, because fighting as thief agaisnt a troll dodger thief is like the most annoying fight ever in the whole game, especially when both thieves are like equally skilled combatants, a battle for true eternities)

Anet has nerfed the thief class due to too many clueless people screaming for nerfs out of various reasons over the last years way too often, that now the point is reached, that the class has been totally nerfed already to death.
The has has been done through the recently existign powercreep of E-Specs and the terrible rework of the condition system since 23rd june of 2015’s patch and Anets constant ignorance tolook over also all other important aspects of the games combat system to get rebalanced, other than tweaking permanently only skills and traits, as if the games combat and class balancing would consist only out of skills and traits rolleyes

As a small tip to the OP…

Play first for a while a Thief Character, battle for few months with that character in WvW and PvP and then return and say again ,that this joke of a class needs further nerfs like you propose >.>

^lol

I know Gingerbread Man is annoying, when I created it I instantly thought, “EMKelly, you are an evil, evil, troll of a man.”

So no offense taken. I’m very proud that it annoys you to no end. It’s very annoying, but still not broken. I’ve been very clear with people on how to kill it.

The Really hard evade thieves to kill are those who sacrifice their condi burst for pure survival.

• Trickery, Acrobatics, Daredevil (With Lotus)
• Withdraw, Roll for initiative, Signet of Agility, Bandit’s Defense, Impact Strike

(this is what I played)

But they give up most of their offense and if you kite them or if you are a DH you can solo them fairly easily. Unless you are power Rev as the build Massively hard counters them.

AS, was OP as hell when it first came out, and it took a long time for Anet to fix it. You guys complain abut it now, but you must have forgotten that at one point rangers could use it to force you into the stuck bug.

• Wait until Death Blossom
• Burts at end of Death blossom.
• thief will blow his heal
• Repeat
• thief dies.

Power Mesmer can absolutely rek all warriors. I know, i know, Power Mesmer is the weaker spec, but you asked how to beat Mace bow.

Necro marks……just sayin

kash.9213:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Apparently core power d/d.

No I think DD is in the traits. If I had to guess, it’d be Acro/Trick/DD with Staff and D/d weapons. I’d like to know the details of the build though.

The trait lines are the build for the most part, all of the builds I’ve seen posted here for that archetype vary, mostly depending on preference for damage or utility. Either way, the build comes down to gaining momentum spending Initiative and Endurance to in turn feed both back to you and the more bad guys piling on you the better.

You are partially correct there. While the Gingerbread Man build does get better with more enemies you quickly get diminishing returns. Typically about 4 randoms is where your diminishing returns start kicking in with non random groups causing the diminishing returns to kick in much quicker. of course depending on the classes you are facing you will notice some fluctuations.

Gingerbread man has never been and never will be the meta….but I still love it

oh god there are so many. check out the Warrior 101 thread for loads more. but personally I run Malandru in WVW because its cheep and very useful, but the are loads of better options.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Full Marauder over full Zerk, specifically on Eviscerate, is an 11.8% damage loss for an exchange of 24.8% additional health. Unless you’re in organized PvE where you’re already likely to hit the 100% crit cap, Marauder has much better defense for the cheaper damage trade-off.

That 24.8% extra health amounts to about 6500 health. Which is basically one good hit. you you are sacrificing 11.8% damage on every hit so that you can take one extra punch? Nope, sorry. Berserker all the way, and I just play smart. Murauders more forgiving, but not enough for me to sacrifice my damage output.

for power warrior i always run Full Zerk.

^I am the middle. I have loads of fun with it, but i understand it is a crap class right now. at least in PVP.

@ OP

Dodge forever

in PVE Offhand Axe is actually pretty good, especially with torch on swap. i run a hybrid PVE build that runs Sword/torch, Sword/axe. It is extremely effective

Personally the only time i have found Axe 5 useful was with torch on swap. Drop the Feild, swap, Axe 5. In that scenario its extremely fun to play around with.