Guild Wars 2

Engineer is probably the closest thing to a counter for Mesmer that I’ve found, albeit, not a “hard” counter.

Glad that I’m not crazy with the Pheonix thing.

Ya, I use pastel pinks. I also like to use the pastel greens and olive greens. I think I look smexy…and I know it.

I think I pull it off…

Do you find lately that when doing the updraft, dragonstooth, pheonix, firegrab combo that pheonix doesn’t seem to go off? I’ve noticed that lately (since a patch about 2 weeks ago)

Also, is it unfashionable to be a male character in all pink…cause that’s the way I roll.

JonathanSharp.7094:

felivear.1536:

Pray.9751:

In my humble opinion the best quick-fix for the whole problem would be to introduce single/duo queue free tournaments (or just single games) with a strong matchmaking mechanic.

Best regards Pray

Great post and this part is a great idea. Simple, quick solution while they iron out a good ladder system. This way, queues will still be somewhat quick since many many people queue solo or with 1 other friend, and you won’t have to get throat punched in Khylo anymore!

You can already do this.

Cheers.

Not that you can queue as single / dual players, but that the entire queue is made up of those same people; thus, when you enter the tournament, the people you are fighting are also single / dual queuers, not pre-made 5 man teams.

If this is in, please let me know how I can stop getting eaten alive on Khylo (without joining a 5 man team).

Archaon.6245:

Easterlily.5836:

Downstate is somewhat both OP and fun/good. That you can get ressed and be then get downed unlimited times is kind of sad. I would prefer that if you rally or get revived, then next time you die, you die.

Do you know that if you are downed 5 times in a short time you istantly die…….right?

5 Times is silly. If they HAVE to keep it, it should be 1 time, then insta-death.

I really applaud them trying to do something different. It does add extra strategy to PvP. Having said that. I hate it. It’s not for any other reason than the fact that, to me, it’s not fun. Not at all. I don’t like stomping and I don’t like being stomped.

I feel it really takes the flow out of the game. You go from fun dynamic combat to trying to chase a guy on his butt around while he throws rocks at you. Then, he may completely revive just because he happened to tag someone that is now dying 50 yards away.

I fully understand that as with everything in life, there will be some people that like something and others that don’t. I can tell you from speaking to my own friends, and my guild and people here on the forums, overall it is a large majority that dislike it, just because it’s not fun.

And for people saying this is the only solution to burst…that’s insane. This is currently a safety net for burst, but burst needs to get controlled. This system is not the solution for burst.

Pray.9751:

In my humble opinion the best quick-fix for the whole problem would be to introduce single/duo queue free tournaments (or just single games) with a strong matchmaking mechanic.

Best regards Pray

Great post and this part is a great idea. Simple, quick solution while they iron out a good ladder system. This way, queues will still be somewhat quick since many many people queue solo or with 1 other friend, and you won’t have to get throat punched in Khylo anymore!

Very well written. Sounds like you have really thought this out and articulated it well. DEVs will read this. Hopefully they take some of it to heart.

I think people realized weeks ago that Elementalists aren’t a bad class. They do get pigeonholed into a very specific role most of the time, but they are good. Also, really this video points more to the known fact that bunkers are OP. That doesn’t change that thieves are too…

garethh.3518:

Barely anything (in all and every likelihood) short of bug fixes, exploit fixes and small number tweaks is going to happen much sooner than that.

My friend, at this point, those “barely anything” fixes would be GIGANTIC. We’ve been living with a game breaking block bug and bladetrail bug and stealth bug for a long long time.

They are hotfixing important things like Dye Drop Rates, so we understand that these other changes get put on the back-burner.

This is really funny: one time I was struck by a stealth character. I died before I knew what hit me, then while I was on the ground he kept flying through the air and repeatedly stabbing me instead of stomping me…almost like he was accidentally queuing up the same move over and over haha. I thought that guy was so bad. Then, it happened later by a different guy, then again, then once every 5 minutes in PvP. Good times.

Braxxus.2904:

Otherwise, you may walk away with the realization that you just spent multiple hours playing a video game when the vast Earth exists for your exploration. A good game makes you forget about that silly Earth.

:)

It’s ok. Five minutes with a paper or looking at any part of pop culture will remind you that Earth is a terrible place full of nitwits not worthy of your attention anyways.

I know, that’s why these video games are so important. They provide a great temporary relief from this crazy place.

For the people saying “be patient” or “the gaming community has become so self-centered”…..I wish I had access or a desire to go check the forums of SWTOR, WAR, and RIFT. There were certain things in there that people had legitimate complaints about. When people would voice their opinions, people like you all would come in there and make them out to be 10 year old whining brats.
Now those same people that complain about negative posts are posting on those forums about how dead their servers are and begging for better ways to get more people to play. Odd how that works isn’t it…

Sprawl.3891:

I’m not talking about nerfs/buffs I’m talking about legitimate class bug fixes. Go look in every class forum they have a sticky of 50+ bugs per class, necro was over 100 at one point not sure if it’s still above now or not. They need to have a massive wave of fixes for broken class mechanics/traits.

Anet has been the slowest company I have seen with class bug fixes despite all their hype about how their engine allows for on the fly fixes and patching.

100% This.

Ganey.9675:

felivear.1536:

The main (80% or greater) cause of glory gain in a PvP environment should be winning. Currently in SPvP it’s about 10%. This is rediculous. Imagine if this same system was in PvE. You go into a dungeon, but you only get loot if you have the highest DPS or can round up the most mobs, but not for actually defeating the boss.

I mostly agree with you on your main point, 80% is a bit much but it does need to be higher then it is.

But implying that dungeon bosses are rewarding is just wrong

That was more of a silly statement by me, because I would have no idea if a boss is rewarding. I don’t PvE at all, in any MMO.

The main (80% or greater) cause of glory gain in a PvP environment should be winning. Currently in SPvP it’s about 10%. This is rediculous. Imagine if this same system was in PvE. You go into a dungeon, but you only get loot if you have the highest DPS or can round up the most mobs, but not for actually defeating the boss.

I think having cooldowns swapping to weapons to use skills with cooldowns feels odd. I think if you removed or lowered the cooldown on weapon swapped you would cause other issues, but easily fixed…except those gosh darn thieves lol. They would be even more ridiculous.

Gaining benefits from swapping weapons or attunements in combat could easily be fixed by applying an internal cooldown to their benefits. Initiative on the other hand…good luck getting around that one.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/06/a-world-changing-event-in-guild-wars-2 . Maybe it is a mostly PvE content update again

I think what you are looking for then is SPvP. SPvP is team death-match masquerading as Conquest. Ignore that score screen at the top, it’s a trap, a decoy.

Bsquared.3421:

Moxrox.2496:

I would love to see a better combat log…the one we have is really very limited

This I would agree with. A combat log that counts condition damage as well as healing (and showing condition removals) would be great.

But Just NO to damage meters…

Just so you know what you are arguing against. Damage meters take those exact thing that you want in the game and crunches the numbers for you. What again was the reason you didn’t want this? Is it because you’re afraid a 14 year old elitest may use it to post how much damage he did? I’m just really confused why you want the data to be in the game, but not usable unless you break out an excel spreadsheet.

I may be viewed as short-sighted for this, but I am putting a large amount of weight on this balance patch. I have high hopes for certain things (that I won’t discuss here because I don’t want this to get derailed). If they do not come or if little to no buffing/nerfing/fixing happens, then I may forever lose faith. If little to none of these changes happen while another PvE event change goes in, I may just be forever jaded.

Just curious if I’m the only one putting this much weight on one patch.

Lunacy.5183:

Bad build lol, bad.

30 in arcane for surge and you have no arcane skills running?
30 in water and no remove condition on regen?
10 in air, One with Air…?

Do yourself a favor and run Aigoo’s build if you’re going S/D ( don’t eat me )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR6LU_FLmFA

Sorry, quickly threw that together. I run evasive arcana when running valkaries and surge when running zerker. Then i add arcane shield and wave to 8-9.

Edit: and now editing works again. So I added this to main posts.

This is a post about hotjoin.

Edit: But since you are here to help. I run this Ele spec with zerker / valkarie amulet (depending on my mood) and Divinity runes.
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/elementalist#6|3|2771|1848|48|100|4480|0|0|0|0|10|1617|0|0|0|0|0|0|30|2261|1680|2259|30|2250|1627|965|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

gamefreak.5673:

Adjusting a class’s damage takes time fellknight. If done wrong it will kill the class completely.

And if done too slowly, it will kill the game completely.

You start off on a team that you may not end up on, virtually everybody is trying to build as many glory points as possible with no regards to winning / losing, and the reward for winning is laughable at best.

Why not just take out the score screen since it has no bearing on the game at all. If it has no point, give me the extra real estate on my screen to be able to spot all of those thieves pre-casting CnD.

@merry – Yep, that’s what people like us with foresight are worried about. Obviously they are coming. But, when? And will they be good?

The game is currently in a pretty large decline (only looking at my friend’s list will tell me this) and there will eventually be a point of no return. No matter what features they eventually add, if nobody is playing then, getting people to come back (even for a free game) will be super tough.

I mean, the nerve of some people to come on here and complain about features causing players to leave, in a game where we need other people playing to play. Silly them!

A great chance to build a solid PvP community was ripe for the picking during launch with WvW. You had a perfect opportunity to build communities and comradery with this “us against the world” feature, but to do so you had to make the “world” feel like your own. But, it did not happen at all because of free server transfers available every second if people wanted to. By the time they added 24 hours it was too late, by the time they added 7 days it was way too late.

6 – Progression: There should be some sense of accomplishment. In PvE it usually revolves around leveling and gear acquisition. Most games have that approach to PvP as well. This game goes away from that model and in turn gives itself the burden of creating a fun, unique way of progression. Does aesthetics accomplish that? Not to me. I think a ranking system, better titles, and other things have to be there for progression. When you play a game for a couple of hours you want to walk away feeling like you’ve accomplished something; otherwise, you may walk away with the realization that you just spent multiple hours playing a video game while the vast Earth exists for your exploration. A good game makes you forget about that silly Earth.

Overall, this is getting a bit longer than I expected, so I’ll end it here and leave the rest up to discussion. Keep in mind: these are only MY opinions. Some of you will be greatly offended by my ideas and others will find them right on. Either way, it’s important to me. Now, the last few items that are listed are really missing in this game, but due to the strength – and potential strength – of number 1, I am still here. Any game can have the best 2-6 out there, but if #1(combat) stinks, they are in a lot of trouble. This game has some of the best combat I’ve played and so I have high hopes that the other seemingly minor items will fall in line. I believe that once balance and more game modes and more ways to have fun are implemented (crosses fingers), my friends will come back. Or at least, I pray. And if they don’t, hopefully I will meet new people and enjoy a fun game with them. Until then, Felivear the Lone Wolf, OUT!

Alright, so this post is about what is “fun” to me. Some of you may share my views, some of you may not. Either way, feel free to comment and debate them.

What’s fun? To me, games should be about striving to give the player fun experiences. Fun should exist as the paramount feature when designing, balancing, and updating a game.

Here are the things that make a game fun for me and, in turn, what I think Anet has done well/not so well in this area. Keep in mind, I really only play games like this for PvP; thus, all of my points will be PvP related.

1 – Engaging combat: I think Anet has done an amazing job here. I love the weapon system and the way combat feels. It just feels very fluid. I do believe some of the core features are still missing (and hopefully just not completely omitted). Things like enemy health bars, target of target and less particle effects (often in the middle of combat the song “blinded by the light” is playing in my head) are all that are missing to make this the most fun combat experience yet.
2 – Balance – I want to win because of skill, not because of my OP procs or skill-less moves. This is the toughest thing for most games to get right. Many games at this age had major balance issues and many games still do. I liked the way Rift handled this: their souls were very complex but the devs seem to quickly adjust balance on blatantly OP classes. Sometimes that causes them to be UP for a moment or whatever, but I like that approach because it allows players to see things are being done and if you’re OP one time and UP the next, in theory you know the next one will be right in the middle, making you CP(correctly powered? I refrained from using Perfectly Powered because of the acronym). I find GW is really missing on this. Not so much the balance per se, but more their response to it. It’s all quiet on the Western front and patches are rolled out at a snail’s pace. Now, I know people will say “but that’s the best way to balance, because you do it right the first time”. So, how is that block bug and thief insta-gib nerf working after the “done the right the first time” patch?

3- Choices: I want to have vast choice. I want to be able to play a spec that’s fun and it works. I want to be able to play a multitude of different game modes. I want to look completely different from other player, etc.: I think GW excels in some areas and falls flat on its face in others. I think the game mode suppression in this game is mind blowing. I hear them say they are balancing 1 mode for E-sport reasons and I think that is detrimental to fun. People don’t play FPS for death match only, don’t play MMOs for conquest only. Heck even games like SC have community games that are a blast. In this game, it’s conquest or go home. GW does well with the opportunity to play other builds; however, I think it still has a long way to go to be complete. I want to play an axe Necro in Spvp because it feels the best to me, but no build I’ve found makes that possible, or should I say viable.

4- Playing with friends: I think playing with friends is extremely important. Due to reasons 1-3, my friends have abandoned me and now I’m the only one left. When they did play, I wished it was easier for us to jump into a game and play. SPvP was extremely difficult to accomplish this and Pugging tournies is an act of masochism. When my friends and I did play together, it was fun; however, the time it took getting us all on the same team in SPvP or having to wait 5 min(back then) between rounds just to get touched inappropriately in Tpvp, was not fun.

5- Meeting new friends – Say what you want about dungeon finders, cross-server battlegrounds, and public questing, but I hate them. I loathe them. I detest them. I like the convenience of it, but it removes the need to actually meet people. The community ends up devolving into a bunch of single player people jumping in and out of instances/maps. This game in theory should be great for this; however, The Mist is really the only place to find friends and that place is getting to be a ghost town on most servers. I think at least opening Mist chat to all servers would be a way to alleviate it somewhat; that way, if I find team to join, I can PvP with them, regardless of server. I’m sure some of you will say “Well, it’s your job to meet new people” Well, I’ve tried to no avail. I even posted on here getting people to try to introduce themselves by talking about their character classes/names, but nobody ever does that stuff. It shouldn’t be the DEVs job to get people to meet each other, but unfortunately that’s the way society often works. Why do you think those singles-only-event companies make so much money? You have 2 people of the opposite sex desperately trying to meet someone new and still can’t manage to get out there and do it; so, companies like that become the bridge. MMO’s should have more features to encourage people to form alliances, not less.

ZNICK.8537:

Pray.9751:

because pvp is about spike dmg and not continuous dps as pve is and thus dmg meters are completely and utterly useless to pvp players with a brain

Agreed… especially in pvp theres SO much more to being good than the damage you do. We don’t need no shtinking meters!

Z

This is mind-blowing to me. I understand that it is a small part of the fight and in no way determines who will win, but it is a part of the fight that at the moment is an enigma. I don’t understand why anyone would be against it being in the game.

The implimentation of it would allow for much more indepth testing of things. For instance, there is a fantastic thread going on where an Ele and a thief are debating the effectiveness of air runes over a prolonged fight. Well, if you had damage meters, there would be no more debating. You can have solid evidence without having to sift through combat longs and do a bunch of mathmatical equations on your own.

What I’m asking for is something that already exists; yet, it’s not displayed. The gathering of DPS could be done after each fight by anyone masochistic enough to try it out. I’m just asking for a way in-game to do it. I’m not asking for a healing mod that auto heals or a macro system to let your program your CnD- Steal-Backstab combo. I’m asking for something so small, yet so big for those who would use it.

And for those of you saying “it would just cause people to complain about 1v1 balance and the game shouldn’t be about that”. I would say you’re nuts. These forums currently have some of the highest level of 1v1 balance complaints I’ve seen. The problem with those complaints is that most of them are anecdotal complaints because we don’t have hard evidence.

P.S. – Just let that sink in. You’re not arguing against a feature that will determine outcomes of fights or throw off the balance of the game. You are opposed to a feature for data collection. You don’t want to know more, you love guessing. Great.

I think learning to play your character in PvE is equal to learning to box by fighting a punching bag. Sure, you know how hard you hit and how fast you are, but that tells you nothing about how you fight in the ring.

Ostricheggs.3742:

You do know that steady weapons exist, right?

You can literally determine exactly how much damage each minute change effects your damage with steady weapons.

I use them. They help to determine the difference against dummies and changes in your own trait changes. I want to know damage of class A vs. damage of class B and how much damage changes against players with varied levels of toughness.

I’m sorry, but steady weapons are a very small piece of the overall puzzle that I would like to see.

I’ll favorite that. I’ve played since day 1 and frequent the forums and never saw it. Thanks for posting “again”.

@ R E F L H E X
I will have to disagree. I don’t want to know what my moves do, I want to know how they impact a fight against a certain class. Does X move work well against class Y? Why or why not.

I understand how dragon’s tooth works, I want to know how it works against a competent player of a certain class.

Agree to disagree

So, in the PvE community there are many casuals that hate the idea of damage meters because it deduces the PvE experience to a “who can get the highest numbers” approach.

In PvP that doesn’t happen at all, because: if you do twice the damage as me in a fight and yet I still win, I’m better (or my class is). Your damage is moot.

I say that to say this: Why isn’t the PvP community absolutely going bonkers over the lack of this feature AT LEAST in the Mist? With damage being such a huge part of builds and how much your damage changes vs your survivability, it is essential to know every small damage change. If I add 2 skills that reduce offensive abilities and adds survivability, how much EXACT impact did that have on my damage? I don’t care to post my meters, I only care to test.

The DEVS love when people defend the idea of omitting the damage meters because that is one of the single greatest factors in showing balance. As long as meters don’t exist, people mostly only have anecdotal evidence that a thief’s burst is 4 times that of another class or how a bunker ele can still produce as much damage as another class.

This HAS to be added to the game. Why are people so silent on this feature?

Does this exist? I have a large amount of slivers, tokens, and powder saved up but I’m apprehensive to use them because I have no idea what will be made or even possibly be made. Is there a wiki or a fansite that covers the likelihood of what will be crafted?

I find that in any game, learning your character is best done by individually fighting each class 1v1. Duels usually become the main factor in learning your class, or have 1v1 skirmishes in PvP.

Duels aren’t in the game, and 8v8 hotjoin (which is supposed to be where you learn your class) is nearly impossible to find a 1v1 because of the zergs.

Joining a low population match and trying to 1v1 is the only solution but that seems like jumping through hoops that shouldn’t exist.

Why, oh why, is this simple, yet crucial aspect completely overlooked?

GankSinatra.2653:

I thought of this.

More chance to meet more and different classes at once? Which is better practice as you will quickly have all classes to practice against?
.

If that is their reason, it doesn’t happen at all. You end up seeing more classes, but you never get to fight them 1v1 so you never learn more. If you do find a player 1v1 and start a fight, it almost always gets another participant within 10-20 seconds.

This is why I love the gaming community. We are the most passionate, smart, and dedicated fans out there. Making a game of this magnitude must be exciting and terrifying at the same time.

Im Too Godlike.5629:

Its an issue of balance. All weapons should be balanced equally, but they arent at all.

I’m sure they have data for what weapons people enter tournies with and which ones are mostly played overall. I hope they take that data and make any weapon that is underplayed more viable.

I’m just curious about something. With a game like this where each profession can only use a handful of weapons and those weapon decide your entire play-style, shouldn’t it be where I open the skill book, read the weapon’s screen and what their moves do, then try them out. If they “feel” like a play-style that matches what I like, shouldn’t I be able to then build my character to be just as effective in PvP as any other weapon combo?

The reason I ask is this: I go to streams and I play the game and I find usually there are only 1 or 2 possible builds with very little variation between professions.

For instance, I really like the way axe for necro feels, but it just doesn’t feel viable no matter how I build it.

Is it a design choice because of balance issues to only really have a few viable builds, or is it more a product of a game in its infancy(which will be eventually fixed)

Thanks!

Message body length must at least be 15.

I hate downed states in their current states(pun?). I think the mechanic is fine if everyone had low health, the ability to heal, and one DPS move.

I know Anet spent a lot of time creating the quirky DS mechanics, so my solution would be: don’t throw them away, but make people have to spend trait points to unlock them. If you want to be stronger on the ground, that’s fine, but it should come at the cost of being weaker while standing up because you are neglecting other traits that would be useful.

Just a thought.

Does anyone know or can any DEVs answer why the 8v8 system exists? Was it to combat the initial surge of players and to allow less server power to handle the masses? Just curious. Since the player-base is starting to even out, can’t we just have SPvP set to 5v5 now? I think that will quell a lot of the complaints.

Thanks.

It makes a huge difference. I really appreciate this addition; however, like someone said above, I would really really like it if we had a slider to move our character vertically on the screen. I think the character is too far up the screen. I would like less real estate given to the grass below my feet and more to the things in front and above me

So, I don’t know if it’s just me or if it’s the game but I’ve been having a terrible time tab targeting. It seems that it will only target the closest person sometimes. If there are multiple defenders around and I am smashing the TAB key, I still find that it is stuck on the guy closest to me. I often find myself having to click target which is pretty silly.

Anyone else have this problem? Is there a setting I’m missing somewhere? I know in other games you can choose to have TAB set to target closest enemy, cycle enemies, only target enemy players or only target enemy NPCs, but I don’t see that. Even so, it seem to cycle sometimes and target closest others.

Quote is broken:
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The thread title here is pretty unforgiving… and generally accurate. How much dying is going on is a matter of opinion and contention, but no one can deny the pvp fanbase is creeping towards a trough-level for those who can stand/excel with it, and the iron isn’t hot anymore. Regardless, Anet could make some fundamental changes (that don’t seem all that difficult or expensive) to create an excellent pvp game with wide appeal. I’m worried, however, that they will not do so in favor of possible e-sports money, and corporate ’business-as-usual’ not allowing the admittance of a mistake.
Still, I’ll state why I think it’s dying in the most constructive way possible

1. Conquest (the only mode)
   a) requires too much communication for largest demographic. As it stands, you must have 4 friends playing in voip to get a fair competition: craziness!
   b) many people just want to fight, not stand in circles or take down objectives
   c) some class mechanics favor point capturing (superior mobiliy or defense), while for others points are a crutch (ranged and cloth generally don’t do well standing in node circles eating melee attacks). This also compounds views on class OPness.
   d) there’s hardly ever a fair, balanced skirmish: either I get outnumbered, or the enemy does, and it’s just not that competitive or satisfying.
2. Bugs and Balance
   a) bugs are what they are: a huge disadvantage/exploit and a disheartening frustration
   b) balance is what it is: apparently better than whatever lame bar the last crap game put up, which means little to me. i’m playing all 8 classes and some really are easier, safer, more fun, more effective, or more desired/tolerated in tpvp’s ’real competition’. When one class simply outmodes my favorite, it doesn’t make me wanna play that class, but rather it makes me enjoy my fav/all others/the game even less.
3. Faith (in change)
   a) It’s apparent e-sports has got this thing by the throat. People don’t really expect a major deviation from this failed tunnel-vision platform to a wonderful, versatile, pvp game that accommodates everyone, or even the majority.
   b) Many bugs and exploits have been around since beta
   c) The claim that the meta just doesn’t know how to have fun or play is unintelligent
   I should state that I dislike corporations, but love people (in or out of them). I think companies reduce nearly every human endeavor to a profit game. I also believe, through compartmentalization, they short change themselves (to much less outrage).
   Come on Anet! You’ve got a nice framework in place, but everyone makes mistakes, and pvp should be doing a whole lot better. Please don’t spread yourselves thin while continuing to box the game in and around e-sports, conquest, and red/blue dyes: turn this thing around!
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Love this post. It accurately encompasses how many of us feel. Many people are very passionate about the game but we feel it’s greatly selling itself short. Like you said, the foundation is fantastic, but the way it’s being utilized (imo) is not. I remember playing SWTOR and thinking “there is no way they can fix this”, because the engine was clunky, unresponsive and the games mechanics were genuinely flawed (for pvp). This game is not at all like that. The game feels fluid and very responsive. The combat is very very fun. There is a ton of potential here, but balance, pigeonholing, and lack of options/diversity is killing it for me.

I think they should have a) made the game fun with multiple game modes and let the masses come in and STAY in and then b) after the game has a hold in the market and people know and understand the brand, then make it an e-sport.

I just feel at this pace, the game will become an e-sport with a tiny fanbase because they allowed all the core people to leave while the stagnant game was being developed into an e-sport.

We vent, because we care. Anet, we just hope you understand that.

I do love when I’m fighting against some guy who decided to make a max-sized Norn. I can see their animations being cast from my kitchen.

Kat.5982:

I think people are really blowing this out of proportion. It’s strong, but it’s really not super op or anything close. Mist form is a short duration and you can see exactly where the ele is going and stomp them immediately. That’s a lot better than mesmers and thieves. I can finish off an ele a lot faster than either of those and with far less frustration.

The only potential complaint I could see about it is that it is infact top tier now, and if anet wants that to be the level of power in downed state, the other classes are going to need to be buffed up to that level, which might not be a good thing for the game.

I think that’s my problem. I didn’t like the old Ele downed state ONLY because it was out of balance with other classes, but I would prefer all classes to be like the old ele state instead of ele getting bumped up to the others. I do not like the downed state, but if it HAD to be in the game, I think the old ele had the model for it.