Guild Wars 2

I’m just curious if one day (maybe not too far away) GW2 will be the topic of a few gamers, sitting around drinking a beer talking about the game “that should have been, but never was.”

I think the game’s foundation and fluidity and fun have given it all the potential in the world, then I feel like either from lack of support on SPVP from Anet or the total ineptitude of those who designed it(40 players to start EACH tournament? Did you expect the SPVP to be the single most played thing in the universe or were you just out of your minds?) is destroying something that has so much potential.

Anyway, I love this game. I still have hopes, but I see myself a couple of beers in talking about “Man, do you remember GW2 and how much potential it had?”

Edit: I’m sure many people will throw out the patience line here, and to me it’s not about the time it’s taking to do things, it’s about the clear evidence that the team that is making the features, really don’t have a clue as to what they want. First, the game is hemorrhaging and instead of stopping the bleeding (aka getting new players in and keeping them) they decide to move onto monetizing it (ala paids and custom arenas). That is mind blowing. How is it even possible to be that blind to a simple strategy to grow the game.

Seems simple. Build the game / flesh out the game / add awesome features to grow the game / monetize the game.

How did we get to: Build the game / do nothing / watch the community die / monetize the game / add awesome features to grow the game.

btw, when they said “PTR for everybody” am I supposed to take that as there is a super secret PTR that goes on now with only certain players? Is this a thing, or did they mean “we need a ptr”.

If there currently is a PTR with upcoming changes and only a handful of people get in, then no wonder all of their patches are complete and total garbage with nonsense that makes it through every…single…time.

Solo queue is the single most important thing that is missing in this game(imo). If they don’t add it, I’m going to be harsh here and say either because they are not in touch with the game, or they don’t care.

There are so many things pointing to them never adding it though, which is an absolute disaster.

I watched it and I started thinking “Who is Helseth?” I ended thinking, “Thank God this Helseth guy was on there.”

That guy brought up amazing point after point. Solo queue being the biggest issue which is what I’ve been saying since the start. Hopefully DEVs watch this because they all had some great points.

This is where a movable ui would be nice. I have 3 23" monitors but because of Anet’s CIA like control over their UI I can’t utilize it. I should have an option to move buffs/conditions to anywhere and make them larger, but then again we don’t even have simple target of target options so I ain’t holding my breath.

I think the best solution is to have some sort of class be able to use a ground targeting skill that reveals anyone inside of the ground target that is Stealth.

JonPeters.5630:

This is not true, skills have a cast time and after cast based on the animation they use. To ease any thief worries we are not limiting back to back skill use on purpose. This is in fact the point of initiative and why thieves feel different than other professions.

just curious, are you happy with and is it your intention for moves with no cast time to be able to be used in the middle of a move with a cast time? For instance lightning flash during churning earth and steal during cloak and dagger.

Arheundel.6451:

EnRohbi.2187:

Arheundel.6451:

ilJumperMT.4871:

JonPeters.5630:

OneManArmy.5617:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Jumper is pro, you can’t argue with him. l2keybind.

On topic, kitten – won’t be able to forcebug the 14k mind wracks and blame the game while people scream for exploit. 1/4 of a second is really nothing, minor change that will affect only the bug.

Funny thing, Anet didn’t fix the bug, they just made it impossible to execute. Always better to add something new instead of fixing the old kitten.

I think it’s a temporary bandaid until they can actually figure out what the problem is.
It seems they can’t identify what is causing it,so they added a preventing measure.
Better than doing nothing imo.

We have a winner! This was an especially bad problem so we did what we had to do given the resources we had to solve this while the studio was closed for the new year/holidays.

Jon

Can you kindly confirm that the .25 second GCD is temporary and will be removed when you fix the exploit?

Lol, without the 1s gcd , eles would be able to combo in a correct manner, you complain for a miserable 1/4 s delay on your main mechanic…..hey WHY ELES MUST BE ONLY ONES TO HAVE A GCD OF 1S ON THEIR MAIN MECHANIC?

Switching attunements is like switching your weaponset (Which has a much higher cd than 1 second, mind you), shattering an illusion is like using an attack.

Having a gcd on shatter skills is like having a gcd on your weapon skills.
How would you feel about that one?

Attunements are not weapon set..-_-
-they don’t change your range
-they don’t change the style
We change attunements because…that’s our main and only mechanic, shatters is your mechanic so the gcd is justified

just curious, if it’s not the same as weapon swapping then why everytime we switch attunements do we get the benefits of a weapon sigil that states it works on weapons swap?

I wish there was a way to subscribe to this thread and it send texts to my phone whenever someone posts.
Best.Thread. Ever.

I think if they are going to spend all of their time developing PvE then they should get their micro transaction money from there, not from the PvP which they barely even support.

It’s crazy that the SPVP portion of this game is on life-support, and instead of coming around finding ways to resuscitate it, they instead come by and find out ways to make money off of it. They at least pulled their heads out of their behinds with the custom servers before ladders, but heck, it took them long enough.

Sprawl.3891:

felivear.1536:

this battle will be like Manny versus Floyd Mayweather, I know it will never happen but if it did the viewership would be through the roof. Make this happen now!

Olympic style drug testing on the dirty euros or no deal

They’ll never stand for it.
“You no takes my bloods.”

Seether.7285:

Lorienda.1349:

there is a huge gap between eu and na atm
a good eu pug can probably take down the best team on na its not because u are bad
u just dont have any decent players to play against so u naturally not as good as us.
so ye u should not have a spot in the state of the game atm till na evolves to be decent.
u can just break the game.
the meta on na is so broken you guys think it works cuz you are playing against kitten teams
so ye.
and i agree about the rest with spades.

These comments are funny. So a lot of these arguments about who should be in this discussion are taking the “no true scotsman” approach and saying that only those currently playing at the highest levels can have any meaningful input on the subject. Currently, the EU scene is most likely more competitive than the NA scene but that is because a large number of competitive NA teams have left the game. These players saw the massive problems with the game over a month ago and left.

The meta might have shifted a bit over the month they have been gone but the fundamental issues with the game haven’t changed. The meta shifts to what works and has no regard for what is broken or the game flaws which cause the meta to be the way it is. Knowledge of the meta does not necessarily make these flaws clearer to a player nor does a slightly outdated idea of the meta make these flaws impossible to ascertain.

Being good at the playing the game and being able to speak objectively and intelligently about balance are two entirely different things and many people could do one or the other but not both. To be honest I think the previous State of the Game showed that many players fall in the first category and not the second. We had a collection of “top” EU players and they didn’t delve into any of the major balance issues which creates the lynchpin of the current meta.

Pretty much this. It’s not necessarily who is currently taking better advantage of “what works” it’s about getting players that are clearly competent and articulate to be able to pose questions and solutions to problems plaguing the game.

I’m not going to call any names but the last SotG was pretty wasteful. So much opportunity and yet, quality players discussed stuff that was really not important at all (sans a couple comments).

But, carry on. This thread is the most win I’ve seen on these dead forums in some time. If it gets locked, I will cry.

this battle will be like Manny versus Floyd Mayweather, I know it will never happen but if it did the viewership would be through the roof. Make this happen now!

This thread is not going to end well but in the meantime….Gold Jerry. Gold!

I like what someone said above. If you are down a player it should pool from the players that queued solo and give a message like:
A team needs your help! They are in round 2/3 would you like to accept it or stay queued?

Wait, really?

Edit: OK, just read it on guru. So, just curious, what is the point of this one? I’ll be listening to hear what top players think, but why have it without a dev?

I would like to open this thread to implore the top players that are participating in this discussion to ask the questions that need to be asked.

Last time, I think there was a little bit of wasted opportunity. I’m not sure who all is in this one from NA, but please be blunt on major issues.

Also, I guess this is as good of a place as any for people to post what they think are the major issues that should be discussed.

For me, I don’t care how it’s asked, but the 2 major things that need to be brought up are:
1) What are you doing to make sure that new players and PvE players will attempt to step foot in our little world?
2) What are you going to do to ensure that once you find a way to get people back, you keep them for a long time (eg. rewards, game types, anything that’s fun and not stale)?

What do you guys want to hear asked?

Edit: Please don’t get into flame wars with each other about what they think the issues are. If you disagree, instead just post what you think is important, don’t attack others. Let’s keep this civil and going without closure.

RaynStargaze.6510:

So i golo solo for tpvp way too often simply cuz i h8 ppl.

Not a big deal you lose to crappy teams cuz ur own team is even crappier.
I wouldnt mind that but having to wait 3! kittening minutes just to get the round to start after waiting for the team and tournament to set up is just too long.

Reduce it to 1 minute it would still be waaaaay more time than anyone could ever need.

Bump thread if you agree – flame on if you dont

I actually think that for Free Tournaments, 1 minute would be fine. It’s still enough time to get your strategy in (in frees it’s mostly the same strats each time anyway). In Paid Tournaments, I think the current time is fine. So ya, I agree.

Although I appreciate what you are trying to do here, I can’t help to wonder what you mean by “there is a lot of negativity on these forums”. If you are talking about people attacking others and people calling DEVs morons and other things like that, then those things are negative.

I just hope you aren’t talking about the countless posts about major issues plaguing this game. If you are talking about the latter, then I will have to disagree with you. Those things are what get the word out there about game breaking bugs and about issues that are plaguing the community. I think the fact that these bugs exist, coupled with the fact the devs are mutes, cause a lot of these posts. They desperately need a community manager or someone that can help provide some feedback to the people that clearly love this game.

Look, at this point, you would have to agree that if we’re still playing this game and posting feedback on the forums, your line “avid PvPer and GW2 fanatic” most likely appies to all of us (minus the few “gw sux” posts). This bare-bones PvP experience is still being played by people, but those still playing exclusively since HeadStart can easily be called GW2 fanatics.

Lastly, I would like to ask about your comment: “Let’s all be a bit more positive…your fixes will come soon”. On what grounds are you saying they will come soon? I think my main problem with this game so far is that the fixes come slow, if at all. Block bug perfect example of this, that was game-breaking and stayed put for 2+ months. Also, their fixing things often cause unintended side-effects, which doesn’t have a lot of us super confident in fixes.

All in all, I like your post. I appreciate your attitude and the way some of you top players are reaching out to the community but I will just like to request something of you. Since we clearly love the game as much as you, be patient with us and just realize the things we demand are things we want because we love the game and want it to succeed.

Edit: also, I would like to add that many of my frustrations are born out of the lack of support SPVP gets. Clearly, SPVP was given a small team and minimal resources to be successful. I think, as clearly shown in their post-launch patch strategy, PvE has many more resources. Well, you may say, “it’s because PvE is their bread-and-butter”. That may be true, but it doesn’t change the fact that us in the PVP community get to feel like John Snow. They make PvE changes that show up in PvP (only explanation I have for the mesmer buff). PvE bugs get fixed almost immediately, meanwhile again, I bring up the block bug and Svanir runes (and other ones that still exist).

Signed,
Felivear

Sprawl.3891:

Walorx.5129:

I’ve found an exploit to always get 5 decent players on your team every game. All you have to do is join/make a team with 4 others and press “invite party” at the tourney npc. Once you do that, you’ll have 5 people almost garuntee! It’s a pretty sweet exploit

5v5 arena in WoW was the least played, least popular arena format because most players dont want to be forced to spend time spamming chat for other players, or put in work to build a team where it’s difficult to have everyone online at the same time.

Anet obviously intended for people to solo queue into free tournaments and it should not be our responsibility to work around a broken mechanic of games starting with less than 5 people, which has been complained about since release.

They need to add a deserter debuff already like every other game. If you dont have time to play through a full tourney or quit when you’re losing you should face a strong penalty. Adding a deserter debuff that doesn’t allow you to do any tournaments or hot join matches for 30-60 min+, in game time only, will get the bads to stop queuing/quitting.

+1. No way to say it better.

Play games more. My family is really holding me back from being able to play my desired 16 hours per day.

I have odd hours as well and would like to join. I’ve ran frees with you before. Add me in game. I can play from about 12pm-4pm Eastern, so at least some matches.

My main and best is Necro.

Look at the Join Now option, then ignore it. It does not work correctly. Just browse the list and join your own.

QT, I listened to the whole discussion and I found it very much on the pulse of the player-base that primarily does SPVP. There are many issues with SPVP, but at its core the game has serious potential. The main issue, as you all discussed, is it seems the developers don’t even know what they want to do with this game. Their haphazard adjustments to certain areas and completely ignoring other aspects to the game seem to be way off base (at least from many viewpoints) from what the game currently needs.

I will say this: I implore, beg, plead, for you to bring all of this up in your discussion on the 4th. Most of the stuff you all talked about is in plain text on the forums and they’ve seen it, but for me and many others, we want an actual response. We want to know if we are wasting our time in this game. The few people that are still around are mostly around because we see the potential and we have hope that the SPVP devs don’t squander that potential. By bringing up these topics and demanding answers, we can either continue to patiently wait while they finish their “when it’s ready” game, or we can leave at peace knowing we gave it our all.

I think the main points in this entire discussion should be.

1) What are you doing to bring people into SPVP?
2) How are you going to keep them there with a fun, engaging, and rewarding system?

Everything else is secondary to this. When a game is on life-support (clearly anyone with eyes can see that SPVP is flat lining) these are the only things that matter.

A condition spec necro is potentially the most difficult class a thief can fight. If you have life force you can DS most of their burst and when they stealth your staff can dot them up heavily if youre good with ground targetting. If they go into Shadow refuge, just vomit all your ground targetting into their refuge and if they are dumb enough to stand in it while their stealth activates they will die. Thieves are tough to fight in battle because they can pick their fights, have highest burst in game and the most (by far) means to reset the fight and start again on their own terms. Having said that, a competent necro is a good counter to a thief.

kostbabis.8791:

felivear.1536:

ha. I’m actually getting a chuckle out of the people saying “L2P, I’ll time your dodge and wait til it’s off CD, and working as intended.” You people are dense. I mean like, imperviously dense.

The video clearly shows strafing left/right/left/right in a pattern where you never even lose position. You are in the same spot but using a broken mechanic to evade attacks.

The equivalent here would be if you could just jump up and down and evade melee attacks. That would be a terribly broken mechanic, just as this is a terribly broken mechanic. I’m still baffled at how some of you are like “this is good for the game, L2P.” LOL

strafin left and right locks you in place as a trade off..also not homing projectiles give players with good reaction time another edge against slow moving numb keyboard turners..

I don’t know what else to tell you man. If you still can’t see it’s broken, that’s something you really need to figure out on your own. “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”

ha. I’m actually getting a chuckle out of the people saying “L2P, I’ll time your dodge and wait til it’s off CD, and working as intended.” You people are dense. I mean like, imperviously dense.

The video clearly shows strafing left/right/left/right in a pattern where you never even lose position. You are in the same spot but using a broken mechanic to evade attacks.

The equivalent here would be if you could just jump up and down and evade melee attacks. That would be a terribly broken mechanic, just as this is a terribly broken mechanic. I’m still baffled at how some of you are like “this is good for the game, L2P.” LOL

And here is the problem you will now face. Changing this obviously broken mechanic will now require tons of coordination between the pve, pvp, and wvw team. They will sit down and discuss for months how it affects the game. They will write a blog post about it that will take another month to get translated into Latin and Klingon. Then, lastly it will be patched in the middle of summer only to find out that it completely broke some other aspect of the game (probably making arrows ricochet hitting every character on the map). Then to fix that bug created, the cycle will begin again.
Welcome to Guild Wars 2 and the circle of life.

I’d also like to add this: after watching youtube videos, every manifesto and reading every post from the second this game was announced, if you asked me how the PVP portion could fail, I would probably say:

Boring game mode (btw, I would have actually said a conquest type): check
lack of support: check
No tangible reason to play: check

Probably the best written explanation of what’s plaguing the game. Not only is it well written, it has great perspective from a quality player who understands the game as a whole. I’ve seen many quality players with tunnel vision for their top teams needs; meanwhile, many of those needs directly harm the games overall popularity.

I am astonished by the sheer basicness of SPVP. It offers nothing except the chance to competitively enjoy the games combat system, which the PVP devs didn’t develop (to my knowledge). So, to me it was like a relay race where the team that created the combat and foundation passed it to the SPVP team and either because of a major lack of support for the SPVP side or some other reason, they basically started walking with the baton. That’s what’s so bad to me. It had the chance, it had it right in it’s hands….and this is what was done with it.

I’m not sure what the cause is, but since the last patch, I’ve noticed a few times where I become permanently rooted. First it happened playing against a mesmer and I thought the mesmer was hacking or maybe mesmers got buffed again lol

Then, I was fighting the chieftain alone with my mesmer and i became permanently rooted against him. I killed him and I was indefinitely stuck. I could cast abilities but none that would allow me to move. Could not dodge. I was later downed when a zerg of the enemy team showed up. I was rezz’d by a friendly there, and boom, I could move again.

Anyone else?

Also, for clarification, using mouse left/right together, using WASD or any other key that allows movement didn’t work. Nothing.

Combat and fluidity (or as I call: the foundation): 9.5/10

What Anet has actually done with it in SPVP: 3/10

I agree with a lot of the things you say. The main issue that I think we’re facing now is that it is a slippery slope. The SPVP side got far less attention at the start because it was the minority of the 3 game aspects (pve, wvw, spvp). Now, I believe were going to find less and less attention(not sure how you can get less than it is, but I’m sure we’ll find out) because this game mode is on life support. A lot of the things you stated should have been in at start. They weren’t, so they should have been in pretty quick after launch, but they weren’t. Now, SPVP is pretty much a wasteland so the chance that we’ll see ANET dumping MORE resources into this mode to catch up is slim to none.

I had high hopes as you did. I am more let down by this game than any other. I’ve still put almost 500+ hours into it and that’s because of the foundation that was solid. I’m disappointed not because it’s the worst game I’ve ever played (obviously 500 hours can attest to that) but that it had the most promise and did the least with it.

It’s like hearing about two 25 years olds that are strung out on meth and living on the street. One was a terrible kid his whole life and got into trouble and did terrible in school, the other was an honor student and had the world by the roundies. It would be sad that both are now wasted, but it would be more sad that one wasted so much.

MindlessRuff.1948:

I fail to see how sPvP is dying, I can log on every day, see loads of full servers in the sPvP browser, get instant queues in free tourneys, (plenty of new players there I might add) under 10 minute queues if I want to do a paid tourney, and see many new players coming over from PvE in the mists to ask noobie questions every day.

Loads of full servers? Please, I would love a screenshot or video of over 15% of the servers being played. I’ve checked at prime time and only found around 30 of the 300+ servers even being played.

Slowly dying is a bit of an understatement. More like “mayday, mayday”. But I will say, good posts like this on the forums are even dying because the SPVP forums are about dead too.

You end up with the same couple people in every thread.

me- telling you the sky is falling and the game needs to fix stuff pronto
tOss- telling you it’s YOUR fault and the community needs to be patient and create this stuff ourselves
ayrehendel(sp) telling you to learn to play and that he smashes every class in every way
Jacobin – making great posts with videos to back it up on why the game is dying
Brutalistic- basically just arguing with every single person for every possible reason. i can only assume he is very angry all the time. (probably by the state of pvp but doesn’t yet know it?)
zone – good poster with a lot of warrior insight
saatarcony – basically making a bunch of random posts and then plugging his stream
Braxxus – seems legit
aydenunited – seems legit

Add a few random posters in the mix and even this side of SPVP is dead.

ZombiesTT.3619:

Sorry, but that’s your fault, not ArenaNet’s.

Eventually, the only players left will be you and the others who share your smug attitude about something that is clearly plaguing this game. I’m sure you have a good team that you run with nightly, congrats. Maybe you will thoroughly enjoy your nightly paid queue that may never pop…

Powerr.3649:

you honestly think snowball mayhem was made by the pvp devs?

The pve devs have like 12 times more resources fyi

I don’t think the reason is significant, only the outcome. If they are so bare on their PvP resources, that’s a problem. Again, I don’t put the blame on JSharp or Peters or anyone else, I clearly think Anet’s agenda is moving forward with SPVP as the least of their concerns. It shows in their resource allocation where PVE gets in 1 holiday update more than PvP has gotten since release.

So, I think your statement is spot on, doesn’t change my feelings.

MasterDeere.3417:

This is a bug not a buff, it will be fixed soon

I can’t wait to see what other amazing unintended bugs come from fixing this bug. /popcorn

So, when J Sharp was asked about new game modes, he stated it would be something they would look at in the future but right now there are other things that need to be done first.

Well, I just played snowball mayhem. It’s a fun Winter game mode that will be around for about a month.

Just in case you’re keeping score:
new permanent game mode for SPVP: 0
temporary game mode that takes the same amount of time to create: 1

hharry.1967:

Just remember WoW was bad for like the first year or so full of bugs and overpowered stuff, pvp was crap as well, look how good it did, until they ruined it with cata but thats another story. So patience my friends… Just 1 thing I really hope they dont pretend on releasing an expansion (which means wasting another 50 bucks or so) until the game is actually ‘good’.

A new car releases with terrible safety features and gets 5 miles per gallon. Your response: “Don’t you remember how bad the Model T was when it released?”

BlueprintLFE.2358:

felivear.1536:

BlueprintLFE.2358:

See here’s the thing mate,

This is something I do in my free time. I play this game to have fun. This isn’t my life, so bugs come and go for me, but ill keep playing and having fun, and guess what? If there comes a point where I am that frustrated, and I am not having fun anymore, ill take a break and come back, or I’ll leave, it’s that simple to me. Am I having fun? Yes? —> keep playing, No? --> stop playing. Therefore when problems arise I am not going to be calling for the chopping block on some Dev, this is entertainment to me, kitten happens and nothing anyone besides ANET does is going to change the issues.

Not asking for the heads of any devs. I clearly love this game too. I have now played 400+ hours and have one of each character that I play in TPVP and TPVP only. This is a hobby for me as well, albeit one of my only hobbies. Like someone said earlier, this isn’t any normal business (like it or not we are a client they are the provider, simple as that) in that, we bought a product and if it doesn’t work, if it isn’t what we expected , or if we are generally displeased, we can’t just take it back. What is our course of action then? Well, it’s what I’m doing. I come on the forums and echo the same sentiments that many people feel. I say things that I feel are holding the product, that I clearly enjoy, back. You sound like someone who is really a company’s dream customer. You take your pill, you swallow it, and if you don’t like it you move on. Boy, if every business in the western world had customers like you, nothing would ever get fixed. Thank goodness for those of us who are willing to put ourselves out there and even be bashed by the likes of you…just for the sake that the DEVs may hear. That is all.

There ya go let it out, make assumptions about me without knowing me, of course because I don’t rage about a video game, that I just “take my pill, swallow and and if I don’t like it move on.” Good one mate that got me, anyways I’m done here, if you enjoy being unhappy than nothing I say will change it. I can play this game too, I know your type you are one of those people that have a bad day and rage and go take it out on the nearest little cashier girl working at a store that you know can’t say anything back. There now I know nothing about you and I can make assumptions too. Anyways I’m out, not going to run my head into a brick wall trying to argue with you, when you obviously just want to be unhappy. Happy holidays mate.

This is a direct quote from you not even 5 posts ago…so please correct me if I incorrectly made the assumption:

“This isn’t my life, so bugs come and go for me, but ill keep playing and having fun, and guess what? If there comes a point where I am that frustrated, and I am not having fun anymore, ill take a break and come back, or I’ll leave, it’s that simple to me.”

Raytek.6193:

Hotjoin has devolved into a glory farming zergfest. Most players don’t care about winning, only about points. Why? Because there are no meaningful rewards or incentives to win, other than an extremely small glory bonus.

I don’t think it devolved at all. It never was anything but that, and that’s a shame. I honestly think it’s the DEVs intention for this mode to be just a hotmess.

Edit: also, these are great ideas, but every one of them have been said since the start of launch, and that’s because people realize how much they would help SPVP. The problem is, it’s either not on the agenda, or so far on the backburner for Anet that you are pretty much wasting your breath (like I did when I suggested some of these)

BlueprintLFE.2358:

See here’s the thing mate,

This is something I do in my free time. I play this game to have fun. This isn’t my life, so bugs come and go for me, but ill keep playing and having fun, and guess what? If there comes a point where I am that frustrated, and I am not having fun anymore, ill take a break and come back, or I’ll leave, it’s that simple to me. Am I having fun? Yes? —> keep playing, No? --> stop playing. Therefore when problems arise I am not going to be calling for the chopping block on some Dev, this is entertainment to me, kitten happens and nothing anyone besides ANET does is going to change the issues.

Not asking for the heads of any devs. I clearly love this game too. I have now played 400+ hours and have one of each character that I play in TPVP and TPVP only. This is a hobby for me as well, albeit one of my only hobbies. Like someone said earlier, this isn’t any normal business (like it or not we are a client they are the provider, simple as that) in that, we bought a product and if it doesn’t work, if it isn’t what we expected , or if we are generally displeased, we can’t just take it back. What is our course of action then? Well, it’s what I’m doing. I come on the forums and echo the same sentiments that many people feel. I say things that I feel are holding the product, that I clearly enjoy, back. You sound like someone who is really a company’s dream customer. You take your pill, you swallow it, and if you don’t like it you move on. Boy, if every business in the western world had customers like you, nothing would ever get fixed. Thank goodness for those of us who are willing to put ourselves out there and even be bashed by the likes of you…just for the sake that the DEVs may hear. That is all.

tOss.9024:

Suzu.4193:

tOss.9024:

felivear.1536:

tOss.9024:

This is an issue that comes with developing a new engine and especially in an mmo. No one likes it, including the devs, and they are working to fix issues. Patience seems to be lost to the modern gamer.

I don’t understand what patience has to do with anything that I wrote. I understand that gamers today are impatient, but what does breaking things when trying to fix things have to do with patience? You could say “gamers expect too much of devs, devs are humans too” or something, then I could openly disagree with you, but your current statement doesn’t even apply.

Write an entire game engine from scratch, by yourself or with a team, and fix the bugs. Then you’ll understand why I say we should be patient. It takes time to find out why x causes y. Then, sometimes y causes z because of reasons you didn’t think would effect x. After that, x, y, and z finally work, until the thousandth time it’s been run under certain circumstances and break. After you chase your tail for a bit, you can finally fix this problem. Then you can apply that fix to similar issues.
Again, patience from us to let them fix issues is better. Once they know the issue, pointing at it again doesn’t do anything.

That’s what testing is for broski, even blizzard test’s their patches before launch, it seems anet does NO testing to their patches before launch. I mean how do you explain the naked mes bug, if they had play tested their own patch for 5 min they would have seen that problem.

And it seems that GW2 was released prematurely [Spvp wise] due to all the lack of content, most indie games come with more content imo, and this is a well known and long standing studio. I would have gladly waited a year or two to get a polished bug free game WITH content and e-sport infrastructure than this nightmare.

They could have tested it, and something went wrong during implementation. If they would have rolled back whatever caused it(if they, unrealistically, suddenly knew what the issue was) they community would have freaked that they rolled something back.
You will never get a bug free mmo at release. Ever.

Just to put my last thoughts on this: I played many other games for many years. Many of them indeed had bugs that came in patches. Guess what? The games that survived the longest and did the best were the ones that when these bugs came, they were hotfixed, and I’m talking quick.

There was a bug in one game where they changed the way skill A functioned, it somehow caused skill A to stack intensity with each hit (hmmm…sounds just like the bladetrail, ricochet, and other moves that did the same thing in this game for months). It was causing this class to do a large sum of unintended damage. It was hotfixed 24 hours later and the people who used this bug to complete content got 72 hour bans.

It’s not the bugs that are the problem here, it’s the way they are fixed (or should I say the way they aren’t fixed or swept under the rug). I really wish I could live in your dream world where companies get an infinite amount of time to fix an infinite amount of issues. I really do.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Lol Suzu go play the next game that comes out, if you think that that game won’t have issues with bugs and fixes too, then you truly are delusional. I like this game I have fun playing it, yeah the bugs suck, but damn it’s a Huge complex game with code that is intertwined with each other. If you seriously think hat the devs aren’t pulling their hair out over these issues then you are wrong. You seriously think a company that wants to make money is just going to be ok with these issues??

I have a blast playing the game, and I enjoy it, so of course I’m going to stick with it even though there are problems, ever heard of a fair weather fan? They move on to something else every time things don’t go their. Way.

Exhibit A: The block bug. If you don’t think that’s a game breaker, then you’re crazy. It took them what, 2 months to fix? So, either they didn’t care, or they didn’t know how, or they didn’t have time. Which of the 3 is it? Guess what, I don’t care which of the 3, all of them are unacceptable reasons to not hot fix.

Exhibit B: The SPVP color change. Somehow a feature that wasn’t supposed to be added for 3 weeks ended up in a patch (how that happens, I may never know). They decided not to fix it. Guess what? Who cares. It’s a trivial issue that didn’t matter really if it was fixed. The problem is, trivial and non-trivial are all treated as equal.

tOss.9024:

Suzu.4193:

tOss.9024:

Suzu.4193:

tOss.9024:

Mmos always come with bugs, exploits, imbalances, etc. Just because good games release, doesn’t mean you can’t have patience for a particular one if you like it. You don’t have to bandwagon hop from one game to another. 3 months is infancy for an mmo.

You sound like a Anet rep brah, you either have the patience of a saint or just love this game so much your blinded or anet is paying ya.

Your a consumer, if you think this game’s pvp is healthy and thriving, good ferrr youuu. The rest of us level headed people will be going to a new game, just don’t be surprised when your alone, and don’t start complaining to anet when you are, because that just makes you a hypocrite.

P.S Where u on the swtor forums, because your argument is like every one of those fanbois who defended in spite of all the epic failures. Anyways enjoy your new patch !

I’m just a patient person, who understands the troubles of game develop as a whole. I also understand that Anet is doing their best to address issues, and is obviously having some problems. Supporting your dev rather than constantly calling them inept and whining, is more helpful in the long run. This isn’t a bad game by any stretch, and if you believe it is I can’t understand why you sit on the forums. Bugs are tough things sometimes in such a massive game.
I’m not a fan boy, I know this game has issues, but I understand the issues that come with fixing them.

I understand that they are trying, but it seems to me they are truly inept. Every single patch they “fix” fix things yet break 8 more different COMPLETELY unrelated issues. Unheard of for a multi-million $ selling game let alone a mmo w/ millions playing. [i should say for the hundreds playing for the spvp].

And your second statement about supporting devs, this is supporting devs because we are telling them we are upset and things need to change, if all the consumers were like you the dev’s would think the games fine or they don’t care and NOTHING would change. So no i don’t agree with you and we should all be mad and complaining.

The issues aren’t related on the surface, but they are underneath. If they were completely unrelated they wouldn’t break each other. I acknowledge the fact that it is obvious that they are having issues with their engine. But saying they are completely inept is pretty short sighted. They are very capable devs.

No, they wouldn’t think the game is fine. Because I agree that issues need to be pointed out when they arise, but saying that we should be throwing tantrums is pretty ignorant. Point out the issue, let them know it’s there, then let them fix it. Nothing is improved by calling them inept, nothing is fixed by throwing fits. If you truly think this, then play another game and check back later. I believe that they can get more stablility down the road, and I am willing to wait for that. I am also willing to support them, and see both the positive and negatives of the game as a whole. In my opinion, the former outweighs the latter.

So, when they make a change and then get ready to send it out, it goes to QA (dear god at least I hope). Then, QA plays it and SHOULD say "Hey, just so you know, this fix just caused RTL to completely reset all the attunement CD’s. " So, what happens next,? The devs say “gosh, I honestly have no idea which fix we did that caused this…so…um….just put it in?”

Here is my major issue: we have been pacified by the statement that “slow and steady is our policy because we don’t want to make a bunch of large changes at once and then cause a bunch of unintended side-effects” that’s a quote from Sharp on a live stream.

So, just to make this clear, we get the snail’s pace updates WITH the crazy side-effects? Fun…

tOss.9024:

This is an issue that comes with developing a new engine and especially in an mmo. No one likes it, including the devs, and they are working to fix issues. Patience seems to be lost to the modern gamer.

I don’t understand what patience has to do with anything that I wrote. I understand that gamers today are impatient, but what does breaking things when trying to fix things have to do with patience? You could say “gamers expect too much of devs, devs are humans too” or something, then I could openly disagree with you, but your current statement doesn’t even apply.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

dont be jealous that i went a whole tournament with naked clones and still won.

i hope this dont happen in paids tonight or i cant enter.

is this being fixed i havnt seen a post on it so link if there is one.

“We’re aware of this issue and we have a system in place that we bragged about that will allow us to hotfix game-breaking things, but we typically don’t find TPVP issues as game-breaking. We should have a fix that will make it into the next large content patch in January”

So, it’s official: we’re never going get there. Each patch they fix or balance things which end up causing a large amount of issues that didn’t exist before the patch. How can we ever get a balanced or complete game when there is so much time devoted to fix bugs that were caused by their last fix. Also, sometimes you see “fixed this issue” only to find the exact same sentence in the next patch notes, which means it was never fixed at all.

Fix bug A – causes bug B – next time fix bug B – causes bug C ….. Ever watched a dog chase his own tail? Man, it’s funny. This isn’t. Stop laughing.

I guess it really boils down to this: there are a few people making these changes and the QA team is there to say “hey, this is causing this major issue.”

So, either the QA team is really not doing their job at all, or the DEVs just ignore them. That’s the only 2 possibilities. I mean, some of these bugs that are caused in every patch are so glaring that I notice them the first time I cast the spell after the patch. How does that make it in?

The only palpable different in each patch with their “slow and steady” approach is the bugs. Tiny little changes that don’t really change much at all, end up with giant bugs as a side-effect. Disappointing beyond belief. I don’t care about which classes got buffed or nerfed, since that stuff is pretty trivial. I am not complaining that feature X didn’t make it in. I am just complaining about something that really makes the entire post-launch team look incapable of dealing with the magnitude of this game.

I’m not going to cry “the sky is falling” because if they tried to fix that, I’m sure it would cause a bug to make the world explode. So, everything is fine. Nothing to see here.

In all seriousness, I believe the end of my rope is gone. I’m sure someone will say “take a break, come back when it’s ready.” The problem with that is, it’s not that it’s not ready yet, it’s that I don’t have faith anymore. No amount of content will fix that.

Atlas.6901:

My input didn’t contribute? My input absolutely did contribute by suggesting that you could save money by not purchasing the Naga, yet still adopting a superior control scheme.

Apologies if my opinion of the Naga sounds harsh, but I explained why I consider that mouse to be a gimmicky abomination. The question in the thread title was directed to “tPvP” players, so I assume he isn’t necessarily looking for a competent mouse for casual players (the Naga), but actually wanted to know what players who compete were using and why.

(I don’t mean to suggest that competitive players can’t or don’t use the Naga, but I consider it entirely unnecessary for this game or any game for that matter.)

I am just curious as to how much time you have spent using a mouse like the naga. you seem to have a lot of knowledge about how useless it is and I’m going to assume that you used 1 for a while and did not like it or should I assume what is probably true and that you’ve never even touched it and your super brain decided that it was useless because your super brain told you so? I’ve used a normal 3 button mouse for 95% of my going life, I’ve switched to this mouse and I’ll never look back because of the actual benefits and advantage (however small).
although mine is just an opinion I’m sure it is not as valid as your opinion that you derive from looking at a picture of a naga online.