Guild Wars 2

Speed clearing dungeons and WvW/sPvP tournies don’t really negate the OP’s point or opinion. That’s subjective counter-argument.

In a game without trinity players will create their own requirements for acceptance to the group. It has little to do with overall efficiency as opposed to misinterpretations of what constitutes a more likely success rate and faster run.

In saying while your downsides to such prerequisites are valid they more often than not save more time than hinder me thinks, hence they are so often voiced. If overall they were detrimental to forming an effective team they wouldn’t exist at all, outside the exceptions you have given.

Lynne.8416:

I’m not telling the OP to move on…nor am I telling them to stay. Just saying it’s okay if the person feels that way.

All good and I agree. Your blanket statement of….

Lynne.8416:

If you don’t find any enjoyment in the game anymore, then move on.

….lead me to respond otherwise. Rock on \m/

Lynne.8416:

If you don’t find any enjoyment in the game anymore, then move on. There’s no shame in being disappointed that you feel you have to move on. Anet/NCsoft will continue to get new players into the game. And they will probably continue to evolve the game into something that “sells”. Even if I quit tomorrow, I’d be okay with that because I have gotten my “monies worth” so to speak.

Why post?

I mean no offense but this format and forum is exactly the place and medium given for players to discuss such semantics. If your happy with the game…carry on.

I don’t get people stating “if you don’t like it just move on”.

There is nothing constructive to gain from such an attitude in a medium directly created for player feedback and critique.

Einlanzer.1627:

The number one problem with the game is that they just do not release new content fast enough. Despite what white knights would say, it’s badly outclassed in this department even by most small niche MMOs, much less AAA rated ones. Hopefully there’s something big on the horizon, otherwise they’re going to struggle to maintain a sizable player base.

The number two problem is that they just don’t do enough with the classes. There is not enough variety in skills to make build experimentation as fun and addictive as it should be. In addition to new content, they badly need to introduce many new skills and weapon types for all classes.

Everything else is comparatively trivial.

Nail on the head imo.

Finally getting my first map completion.

Was waiting for a chance in EB to get my final vista when a commander whisped me, I’d totally forgotten it was a guy I’d helped out a few weeks earlier in PvE on his alt in some lower area, but he steered the whole zerg to the vista I needed and bling!!!

Finally got it.

Stoked and couldn’t get over the fact he indirectly made 50+ players help me map complete.lolz

CoH is another great example.

Vets just gave money to newbs. People played to have fun together. Gear and “gold” were largely irrelevant in the first few years and the community was the best I have had the pleasure of playing with in any MMO.

/timesink

Outside that theres not much to do once you max one character so you might as well, it keeps the game going imho.

Also the PvP aspect. If you can play it well it helps no-end in PvP but I’ll never EVER get one of each class to 80.

Harper.4173:

The reason players play a MMO is because they need to compete or at least compare themselves to others, do better and feel good about themselves.

That’s way over generalized.

I play MMO to play a game online with other people. Period.

I don’t play MMO games to one-up or get one-upped by other players or get caught up in some on-line capitalist regime or hierarchical structure. I play games to get away from that crap.

I kind of agree OP.

Just finishing mapping on my second character and it’s getting pretty hard motivation wise. Just that switch from when you get home from a hard days work and the first thing you want to do is chow dinner down and jump online to play GW to “ehhh…might just check in before I go play something else”. It’s a subtle shift but it’s been voiced by the community a lot lately, it’s a trend that is no doubt multifaceted, and yet I don’t think it should be so easily brushed off or ignored by the vets either.

It’s a trend now.

Gaming fatigue plays a large part to-be-sure and yet in the 7-8 years I played GW1 it was really a non-issue. In saying I think instanced zones and goals dictated the need for teaming, at least till heroes became a big thing. This game is very solo focused and forgiving which overall I think has a large part to play in many players becoming disillusioned or bored with the game.

I always had to stuff to do and motivation to play in GW1 but in GW2 it’s becoming a concerted effort to keep interested, even with the LS and new skins. I mean…I’m having more fun playing Dead Island smashing zombie skulls in.

Meh.

PistolWhip.2697:

Basically, what I’m saying is, I’d rather grind a month monotonously and get my super cool skin, then enjoy the game for the next year or 2, rather than force myself to enjoy content all year, get my super cool skin then realise I have nothing left to enjoy it with. I am sure, I’m not the only one.

Couldn’t agree more, I have thus far rushed to 80 then geared up, outside legendaries and ascended as I’m also an anti-work simulator type player, and then have actually decided to play the game to “completion”.

In saying I enjoy games where that whole mentality is made irelevant. I miss City of Heroes in this regard. Look bad kitten at character creation and never have to worry about it again outside subtle variation. Such a great game in that regard, at least in the early days. Money and gear were by and large a non-issue and the majority played for fun.

Conncept.7638:

You on the other hand are an example of exactly what is wrong with this system. You have no right, whatsoever, to tell other people how they should play before EVER seeing how the play works. IF someone joins and they aren’t pulling their weight, go ahead and kick them, I’ll be honest when I joined zerker parties for the first time I didn’t know it would work and and was fulling expecting to be kicked, but I wasn’t because I did nothing contrary to what the party wanted. No rule requires that I nor anyone else need to cater to your ill-informed obsession.

Best thing I’ve read in this thread.

This is where zerk fails. It’s veiled elitism at it’s finest.

Afya.5842:

How many titles out there has 0 grind? Even Legendary Champion is grind if you put it that way. Every wvw title is also grind. Applied Jumping is grind. Probably only blazing light is not grind.

Theres quite a few but that’s tangenting.

GWAMM is symbolic in that it takes a combination of titles to attain, and the majority of those titles entail repetition of content.

Jana.6831:

fireflyry.7023:

I played my first character as a condition Thief.
…
If you go off the forums and the meta then yeah…cookie cutter is the only way but your really losing out if you get caught up in that imho.

So condi thief isn’t the meta? :o

Well it isn’t for pve and I feel I don’t really do that good as a condi thief in pve – the opposite is the case in wvw. But that’s me.

I just enjoy the play style over running the cookie cutter meta, I mean 99% of PvE could be accomplished by a trained gerbil called Frank face rolling the keyboard anyway. Just like P/D in WvW.

I’d say nothing….it’s hardly relevant in the greater scheme of things.

It’s a cool title, don’t get me wrong. It’s the top title from GW1 for valid reason but I’m over players getting defensive when reminded that it’s basic yet accurate translation is “I grinded GW1 to death”. I never got it, wanted it or ever will attain it but I had a fair few guildies with it and they all agreed.

Grinder Walking Amongst Mere Player.

Will do. I’ll post it here soon.

Afya.5842:

The trashing on gwamm in this thread is unbelievable. It’s like saying if someone’s wearing Ultimate Dominator, that person got it by farming eotm uplevels.

lol.wut?

GWAMM equates to grind. Theres no getting around that. The very mechanics of the title stipulate that you grinded for hundreds of hours to attain it. It’s not trashing the title at all, it’s stating exactly what it took to attain it. Grind, grind and then some more grind. Problem is most, not all, GWAMM title holders act like it’s a hierarchal sign of skill.

It’s time/goldsink. Period.

Dungeon speed clears are about repetition and memory retention.

Skill?lol

Varrg.2704:

I remember ANet sayin’g we’ll be able to play however we want and we’ll be equal in whatever spec we want. Turns out GW2 is no different from any other MMO with holy trinity, there’s alway just one viable build per class. Atleast for PvE. How sad.

Not true.

I played my first character as a condition Thief. Had very few issues and finished the game, mapped, etc with little issue. I still roll condition on the toon and do well in both PvE and PvP. I love the play-style.

The issue is people gravitate towards the meta and popular opinion and then convert that to dogma. You are free to play however you want, if you have the friends, guild or just plain old self-confidence to stick to it and justify relevance and equality through playing well.

If you go off the forums and the meta then yeah…cookie cutter is the only way but your really losing out if you get caught up in that imho.

Fowidner.6930:

Can someone tell me why a lot of players only want guards and wars in their dungeon party?
I play with thief, full zerker meta build and im sure my DPS is quite the same. But still is get kicked every time because im a Thief…

I even solo dungeons with my Thief (all legal and no exploits ofc, or blind is an exploit? )
Some people have to accept more classes…

(dont say might stacking, thief is best finish blaster in game)

Path of least resistance my friend. Meatshields and nukers are easier and faster. It’s really that simple.

My main is a Thief, in GW1 it was a Sin because I enjoy such classes as opposed to facerolling the game. Such classes are always the bane of the majority because they take more skill to play but are also at risk of dropping more. That slows facerolling speed runs of content down.

Don’t let it dissuade you. Embrace the fact your a minority type player.

kolompi.1287:

innocens.1582:

gwamm, grinding without any meaning and/or measure 8-).

Is what people say if they cannot be bothered to get it. “Grind”? Maybe, but what makes it meaningful is that you have that goal you wanted to achieve.

Nope. GWAMM is/was grind.Period.

If one chooses to change their personal definition of what that means all good. That doesn’t change that the fact that it took aeons of grind to attain and it is a huge pink neon “I grinded a lot” sign above someone’s head.

Ignore them.

The majority equate to “I grind lots…..look at me”.

Iason Evan.3806:

Or don’t worry about it. I have multiple characters that do all the content in only exotic armor. The only thing you need that armor for is well, nothing.

This.

It’s merely time/goldsink for people that play 24/7.

Your playing the wrong game.

Why does it have to be one camp or the other?

I carry 2 sets on my 80’s and switch accordingly. Both styles of play have their advantages and dis-advantages. The only animosity I have ever seen is new players who just join willy nilly and ignore the request for zerk only, or just have no idea what it means which is usually resolved before the dungeon starts so no biggy really.

InfernoHero.5687:

As long as you are having fun, don’t worry about being “Efficient” enough.

That’s an awfully carebear mantra but efficient play often leads to reaching goals faster which often leads to more fun, and a heck load less frustration, in the long run. That’s why the majority of players play these types of games, to attain goals, not just run around willy nilly like a headless chicken with no armor on and a rusty spoon whacking on moas. “Efficiency” and fun in this genre are more often than not symbiotic and to not inform players of such mechanics and styles of play is more destructive than in anyway helpful or diplomatic towards newer players imho.

I don’t agree with the general philosophy of not teaching new players skills and knowledge that leads to more effective play. In an MMO it can often be considered selfish and detrimental to the team or party to have such a play-style, not by player intent, but via ignorance.

“Uhhh….that guy in our party is running around in crap gear with a bad build spamming 11111”

“Oh just leave him…he’s having fun….”

…does nothing for the game or that player really…outside ideological opinion best discussed elsewhere.

I agree in part, players should be free to play how they want, unless it has a direct impact on those with other motivations. If I see a new player making basic and fundamental errors I never hesitate to mention it and I have yet to receive anything but thanks in return. That’s how I learnt the game and I have yet to meet a new player that doesn’t want to improve their efficiency.

I never get these “what should I play?” threads. It’s totally subjective.

Play the one you personally enjoy more….or play them all.

Good luck either way.

Every second player has a Legendary glow stick. I’d say they are more generic than most of the basic skins, especially the greatswords, which totally negates any motivation for me to get one.

I have yet to see a player rocking The Moot though. That would be cool. Disco fever.

I missed the first season of the LS and was totally gutted I did but was so stoked for the second. Then I played it….and it was done in a few hours. To compare it to an expansion, in relevance to GW1, is laughable. It’s heavily scripted, tightly restrictive and has so little content and reward as to be laughable, borderline insulting…and I have no qualms being called a casual player. How vets playing every day all day have kept entertained in this game borders on mystifying to me.

It’s the biggest f**k up in this game imho.

GW1 expansions were another whole new world to explore with new skills, classes, enemies. truck loads of gear…..it was hundreds of hours of content.

Now we get a backpiece and a few hours of gameplay every few months.

TP.

If the only way to earn gold in this game was repeat content you would not be reading this post.

Cool thread idea.

I’d say I’m a bit of A but mostly E (used to be D but PvP gets boring pretty quick), due mostly to GW1. I like to get to max lvl and stats, GW1 style not the Ascended/Legendary Grind Wars 2, quickly and then actually start playing the game. I enjoy the ride to max lvl and gear but pretty much breeze through and don’t pay too much attention to the world or story until I feel like a powerful character. Then I start to RP aka GW1.

I hate grinding for gear. Legendaries don’t interest me at all outside aesthetical relevance to my characters theme ( I hope to get one eventually by playing the TP but won’t ever waste time to farm one) and as such it’s saddens me GW is now such a grind based and gear focused game in many respects.

I have a lot going on in my life other than gaming. Outside interests, work, etc, etc. What that dictates is that my gaming time is a precious luxury and usually based on short binges of play. I’m able to play a lot for a few weeks, then life usually dictates otherwise and I’m gone for the same amount of time (thankful I have a cool guild that gets that). I really enjoy games that are able to embrace a player like me, for lack of a better term “casual”, while also having something for the 8 hours a day, 7 days a week player that also manages to keep us on the same power tier without creating a hierarchical structure based purely on timesink.

That was the joy of GW1 for me. GW2 has slowly gone another way in terms of segregation but c’est la vie.

To conclude what floats my boat more than anything else is a a game that allows players to freely RP in conjunction with easy, open, and most importantly varied expression of individuality though aesthetic differentiation while also catering to both the casual and hardcore players in a format and dogma that doesn’t revolve around grind and time spent in game to remain relevant in the current meta.

I dislike Miley Cyrus.

Because of this she will fail.Sorry to her millions of fans.My bad.

Harper.4173:

Sadly you weren’t here or weren’t paying attention when Guild Wars 2 was advertised. It was advertised as a game with no grind.

No offense but are you seriously that naive?

Anet

Experience the game that has captivated millions of gamers worldwide. Guild Wars® is an online roleplaying game that rewards player skill and innovative gameplay over hours spent online.

This has been Anets marketing mantra since the release of Prophecies. It’s old hat and every vet from 2005 knows it for the complete farce it is due to the history of the franchise, well outside the realm of personal opinion or marketed intention.

Welcome to Grindwars 2.

I also miss the role but I’m also so happy that GW2 negates it.There are a plethora of MMO’s that cater to the trinity.

I don’t miss “LFMonk then we go” spam in map chat.

As fun as healing professions are they often dictate team builds and overall gameplay, and at worst create more restriction and necessitation than anything else.

It just makes me think…..

There are quite a few guilds that have re-roll hard events. Once you die once…game over… delete character, only use found items, etc, etc.

I forget the term for it but it’s a common theme of personal challenge in many MMORPG’s as well as offline RPG’s and I’ve seen it on a few guild sites and youtube clips in regards to this game.

Asuran/Thief is my main/first.

Just fits really, being sneaky and such it seemed a no-brainer, to me at least, that Asuran was the way to go being the smallest body type in the game and it’s helped me no end in PvP being that small. It also fit the overall theme as they are also the brains over brawn of the game and I’m big into RP. Couldn’t really roll an 8 foot tall Norn Thief but that’s just me :P

The only downfall is I struggle when playing any other race now. They all seem so slow in both movement and animation. Travellers is a must have for me on any other race since.

Seth.1308:

I just spent time making a character that seems thematically correct and looks right to me. Then my wife deletes it and makes a character she is willing to be seen in public with.

lol.Gold.

Before Tengu?

Hells no.

Harper.4173:

Just enough to make us dodge abit more, think about our positioning, keep on moving, use abilities and never make us focus on full DPS, Control or Support builds.
Enough to keep us on our toes in combat.

That’s way too much for the “casual carebears” the game’s open world was designed to entertain.

Which really says it all.

GW is a game and franchise that prioritises casual players. It was indeed designed specifically, by and large, for that type of player. Always has been. End of. Sure it tries to entertain, and thereby retain, the “hardcore” MMO players with repetitive content and grind which tends to work a lot of the time but in general this is where most arguments of this nature fall over.

It’s not the game at fault, it’s just people asking for dramatic changes to the game and core mechanics whilst also ignoring the fact that they are quite simply playing the wrong game for the type of gameplay they deem challenging and/or entertaining.

That’s where the whole DPS priority and argument comes from. Burn through content as fast and as frequently as possible being voiced as obviously the most efficient, therefore only viable, way to play with total neglect or even disdain towards the fact a large majority of the player base have no such concerns.

They play the way they want because they are given the freedom too, and they enjoy the game as such as, at heart, this game was made specifically for their play-style, while there are dozens of MMORPG’s that already do the opposite.

I’d easily give this game another 5-7 years of being up and healthy. Easily.

It’s health and population fluctuates but it’s F2P. It’s always been a “jump in-jump out” kinda game for many but Anet knows what they are doing and even if they fluff things up for me personally this game is just going to get cheaper and cheaper and at release it was already a steal for the content offered. It’s just going to become more and more of a bargain especially while they polish it off in many respects and keep adding content.

Gaming forums are skewered in this respect, especially in regards to asking such a question here. Like moths to a flame the disenfranchised and vocally critical minority will always be the first to respond. On any given day here you would think the game is dead and the world is ending but never forget it’s a minority opinion.

Just jump in and have another go, if you don’t dig it re-roll, if you don’t dig that check back in 6 months. The games not going anywhere.

Can’t agree more OP.

Aesthetic differentiation through both options available and personal choice should be an integral part of any MMORPG. Players should be given the tools or options to express their individuality in game. I’ve played MMO’s with more options in this respect at character creation than this game has in it’s entirety. In saying it’s pretty obvious that Anet want this intertwined with both grind and the gem store. Every other day it’s “new skins at the gem store” most of which are pretty average anyway. In saying because of this they have to keep options limited else there is no market or desire for such things.

Simply put. Supply and demand, or more accurately, restrict supply to create a demand.

I was hoping this would be resolved with the LS. I was hopeful we would get at least a handful of new armor skins and options in each class. Instead we got a backpiece, some goggles and a kite.

Sad to say armor in this game is both a commodity and a symbol of in-game accomplishment and as such they have dictated the restrictiveness of such items. As a player who thrives on role-playing, character individuality and theme I’ve found it one of this games biggest negatives.

Clonewars 2.

Kinda over threads like this asking for rewards to be cheapened, even gargantuan ones like this.

Who knows what lies ahead? Maybe they expect this to be a reward for a mere handful of people still playing in 6-7+ years that played from day zero? Maybe they will offer up content, events or goals to lessen the requirements for such rewards in the future, like they did in GW1?

Maybe it’s only designed to be drooled over as one of the few rewards that will take a few years to attain and is truly for the devoted?

This thread just reeks of impatience over the fact something in this game is actually largely unattainable, even amongst the minority of hardcore players, with little thought to the fact it’s more than likely intended as a loooooonnnnngggg term reward.

I’ll never ever ever ever ever ever get it but I’m totally cool with that and games like this need such lofty heights and rewards imho.

Given the mechanics and AI on release all I’m expecting is “rinse and repeat” content akin to Hardmode in GW1. People seem to forget these games are marketed towards the casual end of the market. Choosing to play them like other end-game focused MMO’s, and as a consequence mistakenly placing the same demands and expectations on the game, is not valid critique for lack of end game or “harder” content imho.

The fault of expectation becomes more apparent when most of the time such critique is from the vocal minority that play the game 8 hours a day, have 10+ 80’S and a dozen legendaries.

I agree content updates in general need improvement but when 99% of the content can be done by using a ranged weapon and spamming one skill…from day one….it seems pretty obvious that this is a game many hardcore players will become disenchanted with and if played 24/7, get burnt out on fairly quickly.

My only point of contention is the fact these expectations exist outside newer players to the franchise who through inexperience would have valid, if slightly miss-guided, complaint.

Vets who came to GW2 expecting amazing end-game…seriously?lol.Have you forgotten GWAMM already?

Work simulators….with wizards.

I’m over this “lets gently nestle the new gamers into a soft blanket of fluffy unicorn feathers…are they ok?….well at level 2 lets give them a yummy goody gum drop lemony sweetie!!…are they ok?… well at level 3….”

Kitten that!!!

Seriously….what the hell is going on here? Computer games should be marketed at computer game buyers and game players. Not dictated by the “fringe” market of people that have never played such a game or don’t even give two kittens about such games.

What? That’s one of the few times you get to see an Anet rep here? “Oh yay baby took her first step…game going good!!!!”

Anet is seriously delusional at the moment.

I hope so.This game needs more grind imho.

lordkrall.7241:

There have been multiple maps added in sPvP, they have also revamped the whole reward system and added the reward tracks.

The maps added were a direct result of the PvP community by and large neglecting any map that entailed water combat. It was a fail mechanic that needed fixing, the maps added as such were not a bonus, they were substitution for a kitten up on release that the majority begged for since day zero.

As for the reward and track system…it’s just a way to grind in a stale format. It’s a substitution in place of actual content. The PvP here is AB in GW1…one of the most casual formats on offer that many laughed at in GW1. I loved it but that doesn’t change the fact it’s a casual format PvP.

When they have to offer PvP grind armor as a reward?Yeah…your PvP kinda sux k.

Great for a month or six but I still say…if this game wants to be taken seriously in PvP it needs GvG. Yet in saying the very combat mechanics GW2 adheres too dictate that has little chance of ever happening. You need the trinity mechanic for that.

PvP in this game is a one hit wonder. That’s cool and all but GvG in it’s prime was AWESOME.

Don’t hold your breath.

The amount of platforming in this game is kitten in the first place. Secondly it’s glitchy and badly implemented. I found it bad when mapping on my main, asuran, but now trying to map on my alt, an 8 foot tall norn, I get screwy camera angles…one minute it’s a decent view, nek minnut it’s a shot of his feet while trying to jump on to a mushroom, next minute I’m staring at a wall when trying to jump onto a ledge….etc…etc. Fail the vista and start over.

It’s Crash Bandicoot done badly and it’s a pet hate for me in this game..I want to play an MMORPG….not a platformer….kitten it :P

Olvendred.3027:

OP gets girlfriend to try game (with NPE).
Girlfriend still confused by everything.
Conclusion: NPE doesn’t work at intended goal.

Or a better conclusion, perhaps… is that you will never be able to dumb down the beginning of a game sufficiently that people who are new to gaming will not be confused, at the same time as not boring the kitten out of people who have even a slight familiarity with games.

QFT.

When a game places priority on those that never have over actual gamers your on a downward slope. Counterversly you could create an environment where the games community helps and embraces new players. To me that’s a good, all be it great and welcoming MMORPG format.

The NPE is MMORPG for dummies, in a game where the hardcore have little else to do but re-roll. Que frustration and an unwelcoming place for new players imho.

It’s all PvE semantics anyway…in a game called Guild Wars….without any actual Guild Wars.

The majority of debate here is recently focused on the NPE and LS.

The complete disservice to small scale based PvP has to be brought up here at some point else it seems completely ignored. 2 years in and it’s pretty much AB tourney or hot-join….which was slanted in GW1……“AB…lol nub”……with nothing outside map and server state changes.

No new formats. No GvG. No nothing.