Guild Wars 2

Jana.6831:

You can play anything in PvE actually – although staff and D/D are the most efficient in most cases – D/D always was.

That’s true but not what I was getting at. You could play naked with a wet noodle, spam 111111 and win the game but that’s irrelevant to players also wanting to play on the same tier and on par with their peers or friends. It’s also more about the bleed through of nerfs and buffs aimed at the PvP meta effecting, or even neutering, PvE builds and the options available to feel relevant while contributing to team play as opposed to being carried by superior classes/builds and just being along for the ride out of the kindness of their hearts.

The class has always struggled with this:

“Oh crap….a thief…uhhh…..guess we can make this work”

…..instead of ….

“Oh wicked a thief!!!LETS ROCK!!!”.

It’s better than it was now we are on par with DPS output, no doubt, but the general attitude and consensus is still there in part and the class is still pigeon holed as a result. The death of the old VS build has only exacerbated this situation.

Jana.6831:

And that is where our issue is – it’s not the language, it’s not my black and white thinking, it’s your lack of understanding thief – no offense.

None taken, but your wrong. While I was merely trying to be polite in the case english was’nt you first language your basically saying “Your ignorant and have no knowledge of the class…..no offense” which is just sugar coating a direct insult and assumption.

Jana.6831:

In the end: Duel a D/P thief as a non D/P thief.

One of the most kittened types of logic and rebuttal when it comes to discussing this issue. Bringing up dueling just shows there are flaws in your argument. It’s a team game, not 1v1. While dueling happens in certain situations in PvP and WvW to base balance on it is just futile. People tried the same logic in GW1 and it was largely ignored as it held little to no merit.

Anyway I’m not really into quote by quote dissection and cyclic argument, apparently you most certainly are after reading your discussions with other posters. As such I’m more than happy to agree to disagree and move on.

All the best, gl & hf.

Jana.6831:

So, you didn’t get it after all, firefly – I’m honestly confused what your point is..

No offense but you seem to have comprehension or english reading issues. I’m not saying that to be a prick but wonder if english is not your first language in which case I ’m happy to explain things a bit more comprehensively.

In short get what exactly? There’s no right/wrong, black/white. Such issues as balance and build variation are multifaceted and complex and I’m interested to discuss and debate the topic. Not get into “My opinion is right, yours is therefore wrong” cyclic arguments that serve little actual purpose and stifle debate in place of argument for the sake of it.

To be basic my main points are:

1. I find the lack of build variation and options in PvP, and to a lesser extent PvE, to be a deterrent to both my enjoyment of the Thief class and the amount of time I spend playing it comparative to the first 2-3 years the game was out when there were more variations that were viable in all formats. As someone who mostly plays PvE now the recent VS changes have recently aggravated this and taken away the viability of yet another build players had been using for years.

In short I play other classes more than my main as they have more viable and enjoyable build and play style variation.

2. As such I’m not a fan of the trend over the last 2-3 years that has slowly nerfed other builds into non-options or watered down versions of their previous potency and effectiveness, as can be observed in the PvP meta over the last 2-3 years, therefore funneling the player base towards one meta option and one stale play style.

3. Nerfing D/P is a completely counter-intuitive solution that completely ignores the issue and will only make the class even less viable. As much as I hate the lack of build choices in PvP one meta build is better than zero.

As such I think we agree with each other in that we would both prefer other options and play styles to be more viable in meta play, while I disagree with your thoughts that nerfing D/P will accomplish this.

Cynz.9437:

Yes, i will defend the only set that keeps us barely viable in high tier pvp.

Heck yeah. I would too if I still played it, without it your pretty much benched.

I think where some people go wrong is demanding nerfs of the d/p build which is counter-productive to the point at which you might as well hang the class in regards to high tier PvP, I really don’t get why anyone would suggest that in the current meta. It’s not going to make other builds better or less crap.

What really grinds my gears is the constant nerfs to other builds, seemingly and more than likely underhandedly, for little else than pushing and slowly forcing Thieves into one build and, of more import to me personally, play style.

Why is debatable: balance?, mechanics?, pressure from the meta? Esports? Who knows really.

What I think every main of the class can agree on is the trend of these nerfs and the effect it has had on our available options. The last big wack to S/P and S/D and the acrobatics line, memory is a bit off….maybe 12-18 months ago? Could be longer….., was the last straw for me. The build(s) wasn’t even meta, but was close and most importantly great fun to play and was something different to perma-stealth BS builds You could also roll it seriously without getting “wtf…go d/p nub.get gud.”. It’s just refreshing and motivating to have a few options.

As it stands, outside self-gimping in the name of “fun” or forcing variation for the sake of it, there is only one and if you don’t like it? kthxbye.

That’s terribad MMORPG PvP design.

/thread rektified

Jana.6831:

You’re right, I misread or read clumsy.
But I don’t think balance will work without finally nerfing D/P (and DrD and buffing all other sets and some traitlines while other need shaving).

Also: pvp is an entirely different mode than the rest of the game right now – it’s getting confusing when speaking about what needs buff and nerfs – but well, at least the pvp team tried to do something.

NP.

The game will never be balanced.

Imo this is exactly why Anet have slowly but surely killed off build variation and experimentation (outside cheese novelty builds made for teh lolz) in favor of a select few “meta default build” selections that dictate set play style, especially for the Thief class which has pretty much one top dog build, as perfectly illustrated by the recent update option “that allows players to select from a list of preconfigured builds.”. They have given up the option for embracing varied build and play styles in the hope cookie cutter PvP will equate to better balance.

What are the two “default builds” for the Thief class? d/p

Many will argue the new feature is for QoL or ease of use but I don’t buy it. Just add build templates like GW1 if that’s the case.

Ideally it would seem preferable to Anet for every class to have and use one, maybe two at most, PvP builds. Easy to balance and tweak, great for “Esports!!!” but talk about make for some kittening boring and predictable PvP that gets stale fast, at least for me….not looking to rain on anyone elses enjoyment if they dig it.

Personally I just don’t get it and for me at least it’s killed my enjoyment and enthusiasm to play the game type compared to release state as it’s not evolving, it’s actually regressing.

As for the the confusion over buffs and nerfs all I can say is this game needed a skill/trait/spec/build split between PvP and PvE two years ago, if not at release. They have snuck in a few recharge time splits lately so I’m a little bit hopeful but imo this is the true answer to making the game more varied, well balanced and enjoyable for all game types.

No I’m not.

I may have not made myself clear enough or you maybe miss-read or interpreted my post. I am only comparing d/p to other Thief build options, or lack thereof, pretty much word for word.

Edit: Also my response was directed at NuhDah, as quoted in context, just to avoid any more confusion.

NuhDah.9812:

DeceiverX.8361:

Yay only for D/P users who never slotted the venom build. The changes hurt D/D power in PvP roughly the same as it did the VShare build itself in PvE.

Well since you’re trashing on d/p with your every post I have a suggestion. Why not create a new feed or ask the devs to make a forum entry for you entitled: “d/p thieves are op and need to be nerfed, they always beat me!” and post there something on topic whenever you feel sorrow…

You miss the point of much of the aggravation against the current state of the Thief class, build structure and what changes like this mean to the larger Thief main community.

It’s not that d/p needs nerfing or is OP hence people are QQing purely because of it as opposed to the seemingly endless cycle of the classes skill updates over the last couple of years creating less and less options for other alternate and equally viable build types or variations, not to mention the ripple effect such change has outside the PvP game types.

This is vastly more forgiving in general PvE as most of the content, especially open world, has a low difficulty ceiling and predictable mechanics so one can sacrifice effectiveness, meta builds, and build potency for a build or play style variation they may personally enjoy more and still have fun and/or contribute if they team with others. The VS build was a perfect example of this.

In PvP it’s not so simple. Sure other builds may be viable but at the end of the day your still gimping yourself, d/p is that strong.

This is a large reason after playing pretty much PvP exclusively for the first 2-3 years I seldom touch the game type now. Admittedly this is also in large part due to simply burning out on a game type that hasn’t changed much in the last 4 years and has little variation after so long but more so it’s due to the increasing restrictiveness of build and play style options my main class has while repeatedly having build variations and play styles I enjoy get nerfed to the point they are no longer viable in a competitive environment without disadvantaging myself or placing myself on the back foot comparative to the restrictive and forced funneling towards the d/p meta.

It just gets more and more cookie cutter and “one build to rule them all” meta while updates seem to only either strengthen d/p or nerf alternate options and at the end of the day if one build is stronger and more effective than every other build, by a huge margin no less, that is the build I am forced to play as I’ll never knowingly choose to be less competitive in a competitive PvP game type, especially in a format where I am part of a team.

That’s like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

If I don’t enjoy the play style of said meta build….I just won’t bother at all. As such Moba scratches my PvP itch now days, mainly due to the variation of play styles it offers.

Outside that cookie cutter PvP that highly restricts viable and equally effective build variation, choice and options is just bad PvP imho, arguably better and easier to balance PvP no doubt, but still bad.

The recent update and inclusion of “default build” selection just reinforces this is the way Anet wants to go.

The only real DPS application is using Choking Gas on downed enemies to hinder rezzing till you can get a stomp which can come in handy on points or if a +1 turns up after the fact. Outside that your better off with P/P for DPS at range. Like others have said it’s pretty much just 5, 5, 5, switch weapons.

saerni.2584:

So while it was a “nerf” it also buffed the baseline. Overall the change was a buff to viability for those who wouldn’t normally take venomshare (i.e. most thieves) and a nerf to the few venomshare based thieves out there.

Pretty much a perfect and concise summary.

Much of it’s potency was neutered in exchange for PvPers getting baseline Basilisk Venom share and stealth attack boon steal on a GM. It’s most noticeable to the players who used it in PvE with SA now becoming pretty trash, there are simply better specs especially for condi, and it’s simply not worth it just to get the recharge rate of venoms down to a decent level.

As such, and coming from a PvE player who has used the old VS build since release with a small group of friends, there are just vastly superior options now. The recharge without Leeching Venoms and radius reduction of the share is just to big a hit, more than anything else for ease of use and effectiveness.

33% loss of AoE does’nt seem like a lot but it’s pretty noticeable and annoying in game. It’s a pity as I always enjoyed the build but such is life in MMORPG’s. Nerfs happen and builds come and go.

I only started using DD recently, general PvE outside raids, due to the recent VS nerfs as the SA spec is now junk outside PvP/WvW and mainly DPS stealth spike builds or cheese perma-stealth condi. Like many I won’t use a whole spec just to access venom recharge. Up till that my favorite build in the game for the vast majority of PvE including HoT was a vanilla D/D VS/condi build largely unchanged since the game released although it’s worth mentioning I play either with a small group of friends or solo.

My other release day main is a Guardian and he’s still vanilla as well, if I wanted to pew pew and lay traps I’d roll Ranger but that’s a tangent. On both accounts I really felt underwhelmed with the elite specs and the novelty wore off pretty quickly after a few weeks trying them out.

Not saying DD is garbage at all, just not my flavor and I enjoy the other vanilla play styles and my original build more which is totally subjective.

Point being I get what your saying OP, especially all this time later.

While staff is pretty awesome and DD overall has some great merits I went back to my vanilla build after the novelty wore off, mainly because personally I found it more fun, effective, and I’m also big on character theme. Not hardcore RP but my thief is D/D condi in general PvE. Always has been, always will be. That’s been his buzz since the servers went live, more so with his gearing and the time it took me to farm his gear.

Now I kind of have to play DD though as my original build is nerfed and to play it’s now nerfed variation is really choosing to kitten myself and my party. Next best spec is DD.

Just another hit to a PvE casual like me and my friends I guess, mainly so PvP can have free Basi share and boon steal. I noticed skill recharge is split on several skills now so I’m hopeful maybe a PvP/PvE balance split might happen at some stage as I think everything being balanced around PvP is the true catalyst of why many find DD pretty average to disappointing. In saying it’s a selling point for HoT….so…..yeah.

More like this is the worst topic header in the forum. Vids ok but it’s not 2005 anymore bruh. Enough with the click bait headers plz.

saerni.2584:

I love when people say “this trait line doesn’t work for any build I run now, so it’s completely useless.”

In the context of PvE, more so those using VS before the change, they are right though which must be taken into consideration with many of the responses I have read. ALL those GM’s are trash…..unless people like to run perma-stealth gank builds in PvE?

“Dude….you just totally rekt that mob, what a duel.”

As such it’s more than justified for a lot of players to say it’s complete trash outside the context of sPvP or WvW. Within those game types I’d totally agree with you. I burnt out on PvP a couple of years ago but even so I can more than see the potential of the spec for PvP, more so with your well written points.

In saying it just seems counter-intuitive to have Leeching Venom’s and venom recharge reduction, outside Basilisk spikes, in a spec so focused on stealth and therefore by association so exclusively relevant to power and/or DPS builds as opposed to conditions and that seems to be the crutch of the argument many have from what I have read here over the last couple of days while playing catch up.

I know as a PvP guy that might mean kitten all to you but to the PvE Thieves that used and enjoyed the build it’s a pretty massive nerf, especially when adding the reduced AoE, stacks, etc to the equation. The build was pretty much killed in exchange for PvPers having boon steal and AoE share on Basilisk for free.

So yeah, for many it’s garbage, but maybe if it’s not relevant to PvP it’s a non-issue?

Doggie.3184:

I’m pretty much using SA for only one trait now, which is Leeching Venoms. I don’t even like stealth. Wish they would move it to Deadly Arts where it belongs. I should probably just forget about my support venom share build at this point till that happens. Pretty disappointing at the moment.

Soz to rez the thread but I’ve just come back from a 3-4 month break, been reading the Thief section catching up for the last hour or so, and have to agree with this. It’s so disheartening after time away from the game to come back and find my main build in PvE gutted. I just don’t get why Anet keep doing such sweeping changes and completely destroying builds people have been using for years JUST like you always seem to do with these updates.

Not everything revolves around kittening PvP and you have already split skill recharge between PvE/PvP on certain skills, why can’t this happen with skill functionality and/or traits now? I play almost entirely open world PvE with a small group of friends. I don’t want/need to stealth. I don’t want/need to rip boons. I want to run around with my buds and have fun while supporting them with VS and some great venom’s.

You act like making the share baseline is this awesome change we should be grateful for….then you kittening rip 33% off the AoE so I have to act like a friggin Empathy Healer in CoH and call “Venoms are up guyz!!!” just so I don’t waste the kittening things, you nerf the stacks, the might share…and then to top it off I have to spec in SA just for one trait to get the recharge to the point where they are worth taking in the first place.

KITTEN!!!!

Apologies to the forum and section for the ranty nature of this, and again the thread rez, but kitten me. So disheartening to come back looking forward to the LS and just playing again to have the carpet ripped out from under me.

“log out” “character selection” “any class other than my main”

maddoctor.2738:

fireflyry.7023:

Hot is awesome and the best expac ever released that caters to both casuals and hardcore players. The content is exceptional and embraces all game types.

Obviously you are trolling now and don’t mean it but anyway, since you called me a White Knight earlier, that finds no flaws in the game, I made a thread about what I’d like to change in HoT:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/A-couple-of-suggestions-fixes-for-HoT/first#post5979284

has quite a lot of things I don’t like with HoT. A bit more “on the spot” list of issues than “it’s not good for casuals”

Bless.

See you in 3 months bud.

maddoctor.2738:

fireflyry.7023:

kitten ….you guys just don’t give in.

You said timers are bad for exploration, I pointed out exactly how many things are in reality “blocked” by those evil timers. Then you added a bunch of new things that had nothing to do with timers. Keeping it simple and discussing one thing at a time is a very good way of not getting confused.

Totally.

Hot is awesome and the best expac ever released that caters to both casuals and hardcore players. The content is exceptional and embraces all game types.

My previous complaints are null and void and I apologize for confusing myself and delving into semantics and complaint that was totally invalid. Probably the best game ever released of all time ever.

Thanks for setting me straight and god bless this forum and the fans of the game for embracing a format where people can discuss and embrace critique of the game while being told how amazing the game is at the same time by the same handful of posters.

Can’t wait to see you in 3 months time. I know you’ll all still be here and can’t wait to catch up

HoT is the kittens…..the TITS!!!!

maddoctor.2738:

Please post some more with that “etc etc” because the above are hardly any kind of problem.

Nah I’m done….being that this thread is 22 pages deep says it all and being it’s the same 5 dudes every friggin time…as in EVERY FRIGGIN TIME on this forum I’m done. Haven’t logged in here in months and what do you know….same group, same posters, running to the games defense.

If anyone has something other than praise for this game and how awesome HoT is for everyone look out. You defend the expac like it’s your first born child..and if it aint at fault it’s the player who has the problem.

kitten ….you guys just don’t give in.

All hail the White Knights.

Sorry casuals….HoT is amazing. My bad.

maddoctor.2738:

But it’s not like you make it sound like as if you are blocked from exploring casually.
You can enjoy exploration and casually explore at your leisure the HoT maps, there are very very few parts of the exploration that are blocked from the timer you so hate.

Of course there is, it’s been posted in thread after thread here and online, you just quote to suit your argument as per usual Doc. The one shot mobs, gated content based on gliding and jumping on mushrooms. time gated metas , etc, etc.

“Casually explore at your leisure” seems to be a farce according to many in the casual community but if you want to have a go at me all good.

Couldn’t care less as I’m one of many voicing similar concerns and this has been an ongoing theme and complaint here for months.

Coulter.2315:

fireflyry.7023:

Coulter.2315:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Coulter.2315:

the game is not going to be structured around your life.

The opposite is even more ridiculous. Too ridiculous for words. And yet that’s what we got.

Neither should be structured around either.

You want to play your hobby game, your hobby game is a persistant thing which has to cater for hundreds of thousands of people, it does this by having cycles of events.

If you want to play a specific piece of the content of your hobby, make time to play your hobby. Your entire life does not need to bend to the game because it cycles the events, if you can’t get one now you can get it again in 2hrs or tomorrow or any time in the last 4 months… And the future 4 months.

You seem to be confusing a few hours chosen in a week to play the game with “structured my life around it.” Your argument really doesn’t make sense.

Your making excuses for crap mechanics that scare most casuals away from the content while justifying it because you have no issue. The thread seems to be based on the differential between the core content and HoT in respect to casual players, which you are presenting yourself as anything but.

If that’s the case kitten off, log in, and enjoy.

Pretty much non-issue for you and that’s awesome, but why take part in the discussion outside trolling?

I am giving you a solution to your problem by pointing out the timer, I am explaining why the game isn’t structured around your life, I am showing the timer for events has existed before HoT (World boss trains being extremely casual friendly content I might add), I am pointing out you’ve been arguing here for 2hrs when you could have already solved your issue.

Have you tried thinking “I’d like to do AB this week some time,” then noticing its always available at 7pm then thinking “I’ll do AB on Thursday at 7pm.”

Problem solved, this is not casual or hardcore related.

Dude. seriously.

This is a comparison between the way the game has always been till now. Kitten boss timers…who gives a kitten? I can still play the game the way I want any time I want…boss timers had zero effect on my experience of core.

The timers in the HoT meta dictate….DICTATE….access to content. Offering a solution or clock that tells me when it’s ok to play the content is totally irrelevant as I’m not going to base playing a game and access to content on a timer.

Period.

I finish work, log on, and want to play….oh wait…no access for an hour….get kittened.

checks day planner

Actually we are good to go in 63 minutes.

Get a grip.

Coulter.2315:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Coulter.2315:

the game is not going to be structured around your life.

The opposite is even more ridiculous. Too ridiculous for words. And yet that’s what we got.

Neither should be structured around either.

You want to play your hobby game, your hobby game is a persistant thing which has to cater for hundreds of thousands of people, it does this by having cycles of events.

If you want to play a specific piece of the content of your hobby, make time to play your hobby. Your entire life does not need to bend to the game because it cycles the events, if you can’t get one now you can get it again in 2hrs or tomorrow or any time in the last 4 months… And the future 4 months.

You seem to be confusing a few hours chosen in a week to play the game with “structured my life around it.” Your argument really doesn’t make sense.

Your making excuses for crap mechanics that scare most casuals away from the content while justifying it because you have no issue. The thread seems to be based on the differential between the core content and HoT in respect to casual players, which you are presenting yourself as anything but.

If that’s the case kitten off, log in, and enjoy.

Pretty much non-issue for you and that’s awesome, but why take part in the discussion outside trolling?

Coulter.2315:

fireflyry.7023:

Coulter.2315:

fireflyry.7023:

FrizzFreston.5290:

It’s on a two hour cycle. If you don’t have 2 hours to play, then I don’t understand why you bought the expansion to an MMO.

See this is where the underlying issue is.

Why should a game dictate the amount of hours I need to play to be successful? So I have to commit 2 hours at a specific time to play, without interruption or a crap map else I fail?

Are you kittening serious?

I bought the expansion based on the core game. A core game which had no such mechanic as a 2 hour window to be successful.

It’s cool though, your guys rebuttal is really helping to reinforce my thoughts and opinion.

No no no, you cannot complain about not doing specific content then say “I refuse to play when that content is active.”

You can do anything else, I was explaining how to get specific map completion metas done.

Say you wanted to do specifically Claw of Jormag, someone tells you to go to Google and type in “GW2 World Boss Timer,” you then reply “Why should a game dictate the amount of hours I need to play to be successful?”

You are specifically wanting to do a meta, take a single evening in the week and do it… I’ve given you the tool and there will not be another way to do it. Either use the tool I handed you or sit and complain in ignorance.

Claw of Jormag doesn’t pop on your schedule, neither do the new metas – get a grip.

One took a few minutes and there was never any pressure to do it, the other takes a two hour commitment with a high possibility of failure and dictates map freedom.

Get a grip?kk

Your way off tangent bro.

A tangent is something which takes a point in an argument and focuses on expanding out from that, ignoring the initial discussion (like a tangent to a curve). ’You’re’ means ‘you are.’

You can join any of the metas near completion cutting down your required time, none of them actually need cost you 2hrs of your precious time logged into the forums. Use the timer I gave you.

The “map freedom” is 2 corridors and 3 rooms under Tarir, a single room in TD and 5 locations in DS. The VB canopy does not require the meta completion to access. I am assuming you really want “map completion” but since that is a selfish desire and “freedom” is good you’ve decided to argue that point instead.

You still need to get a grip, the game is not going to be structured around your life.

lol.

So your solution is a meta schedule in a thread discussing what put casuals off this game?

Manasa Devi.7958:

Coulter.2315:

the game is not going to be structured around your life.

The opposite is even more ridiculous. Too ridiculous for words. And yet that’s what we got.

Neither should be structured around either.

Perfect rebuttal and thank you so much for saving me the time.

Coulter.2315:

fireflyry.7023:

FrizzFreston.5290:

It’s on a two hour cycle. If you don’t have 2 hours to play, then I don’t understand why you bought the expansion to an MMO.

See this is where the underlying issue is.

Why should a game dictate the amount of hours I need to play to be successful? So I have to commit 2 hours at a specific time to play, without interruption or a crap map else I fail?

Are you kittening serious?

I bought the expansion based on the core game. A core game which had no such mechanic as a 2 hour window to be successful.

It’s cool though, your guys rebuttal is really helping to reinforce my thoughts and opinion.

No no no, you cannot complain about not doing specific content then say “I refuse to play when that content is active.”

You can do anything else, I was explaining how to get specific map completion metas done.

Say you wanted to do specifically Claw of Jormag, someone tells you to go to Google and type in “GW2 World Boss Timer,” you then reply “Why should a game dictate the amount of hours I need to play to be successful?”

You are specifically wanting to do a meta, take a single evening in the week and do it… I’ve given you the tool and there will not be another way to do it. Either use the tool I handed you or sit and complain in ignorance.

Claw of Jormag doesn’t pop on your schedule, neither do the new metas – get a grip.

One took a few minutes and there was never any pressure to do it, the other takes a two hour commitment with a high possibility of failure and dictates map freedom.

Get a grip?kk

Your way off tangent bro.

Vayne.8563:

fireflyry.7023:

FrizzFreston.5290:

It’s on a two hour cycle. If you don’t have 2 hours to play, then I don’t understand why you bought the expansion to an MMO.

See this is where the underlying issue is.

Why should a game dictate the amount of hours I need to play to be successful? So I have to commit 2 hours at a specific time to play, without interruption or a crap map else I fail?

Are you kittening serious?

I bought the expansion based on the core game. A core game which had no such mechanic as a 2 hour window to be successful.

It’s cool though, your guys rebuttal is really helping to reinforce my thoughts and opinion.

It doesn’t. You can do all sorts of other stuff, not that specific thing. MMOs offer a range of experiences for a range of players. You claim HoT offfers nothing for casuals but there are casuals in my guild enjoying it because they’re not focused on the meta. They’re doing other stuff. They’re learning the zones. They’re doing dynamic events, they’re farming flax, they’re doing the occassional meta if they happen to chance on it.

Harder core players will schedule what they do, in the way that my guild schedules guild missions. We get 20 people to guild missions most days, but we have over 200 people in the guild.

What you do in the new zones can be very casual. If you want to do something like dragon stand you can, within the parameters set for that.

Farming flax….woot.

That is awesome and it sounds like you have a great guild in regards to the embracing and encouragement of both vets and casuals but that incredibly subjective experience has little to do with regards to the over all reception of HoT as presented by the OP and the effect on the community as a whole.

I have “casual” guildies who love HoT. I have ten more who hate it….but that’s subjective. I guess I base my thoughts and opinion more on what I have seen in-game and observed by the community at large. If rebuttal is based on purely personal experience it’s bound to be cyclic and never ending as to you and your guild HoT might be the best thing since sliced bread.

According to the majority of feedback I’ve read it’s anything but.

Crap…just realized it’s you Vayne. Won’t respond again for obvious reasons, don’t want personal issues brought up here again and your pretty good at that. In saying you pretty much play this game all day every day. I’d be loving HoT too if I was in your shoes.

FrizzFreston.5290:

It’s on a two hour cycle. If you don’t have 2 hours to play, then I don’t understand why you bought the expansion to an MMO.

See this is where the underlying issue is.

Why should a game dictate the amount of hours I need to play to be successful? So I have to commit 2 hours at a specific time to play, without interruption or a crap map else I fail?

Are you kittening serious?

I bought the expansion based on the core game. A core game which had no such mechanic as a 2 hour window to be successful.

It’s cool though, your guys rebuttal is really helping to reinforce my thoughts and opinion.

No it wouldn’t because that would base the access to daily completion on grinding HoT.

Coulter.2315:

Have you tried typing “GW2 HoT Timer” into Google and logging in for the specific meta you want? Exactly like World Bosses preHoT.

You pretty much solidified my point.

Oh…hang on…I’ll just grab my day planner and see if I can schedule that in.To a kittening video game.

Anet need to make a moba.

Then they might stop balancing the whole game around PvP.

Interesting in that I posted similar sentiments in a different thread seconds ago and your right OP.

HoT is awesome, a great end-game expansion for the minority that needed and deserved it. I take my hat off to the hard core players, I wish my life gave me the luxury of timesink you have to commit to this game BUT the main reason I love this franchise is it has always embraced the casual player.

As someone who might get 5 hours a week to play I was always on the same page as you vets who play 8 hours a day every day.

Where Anet kittened up with HoT is they offered NOTHING to the casual. Vets can kitten and whine all they want but that is what made the franchise. Embracing and welcoming the casual player looking for a game where they felt as relevant and had as much import as someone who did nothing but play the game all day every day.

That was their point of difference in an over saturated MMORPG market. HoT is just a grind fest based on the timesink every other MMORPG does. Simple. If you play GW2 ad nauseam your good…you have the time for 2 hour time gated metas and gear/class based raids.

If you enjoyed casually exploring open world PvE at your leisure….yeah….not so much.

This franchise is turning into the things I hate about every other MMORPG. People playing 24/7 having the upper hand and access to content.

Kitten that.

Yup.

Lots left.

I’ve seen a lot of friends guilds die due to HoT as they ostracized a huge portion of their player base, the casual. Most of my friends have moved on but I’m having a blast in core helping the F2P crowd.

HoT is end-game content with an increase in difficulty and nonsensical grind for the lack of actual content. Casuals don’t want that crap. They want “easymode” free roaming open world PvE content and they are 110% right in expecting as much as that is what made the core game such a critical and overwhelming success.

They don’t want to get one-shotted by a mob. They don’t want to have to figure out a rubiks cube like map. They don’t want to be told they can’t go there because they have to grind out some idiotic mastery to jump on a mushroom or glide.

HoT was and is catered towards the play for hours every day player which is fine. The “hardcore” GW2 players deserved as much. I really mean that, they deserved such end-game content for being so passionate, while actively and consistently supporting the game and demanding more challenge.

Fair call.

The problem is Anet completely ostracized the casual majority. They gave people that actually enjoyed the open world content in core NOTHING. It’s just a gated and grind based mess for casuals and whether the hardcore 24/7 “I have full ascended on every class and a dozen legendary weapons” players like it or not if this game doesn’t cater for the casual 1-10 hours a week player that enjoys the type of easy open world content core offers this game will die.

It’s the best part of this franchise. Play for 50 hours a week…or 5….your all on the same page.

Not anymore. Even in the community it’s noticeable how HoT has divided everyone. One camp is “HoT is a let down” while the other is “l2p scrub”.

So yeah…most of my friends have left. Personally I’ve gone from 15-20 hours a week playing GW2 to 1-5 at best.

Welcome to Grind Wars 2.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t want it. Except to be stubborn and obtuse.

Yet I’m unsure why anyone would, for exactly the same reasons.

This is old hat though.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/DirectX-11-12-request-merged

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

10 year old games like DDO that launched with DX 9 support, have added 10 and 11. Is it just that none of you have faith in Arenanet to add DX12 support?

It’s just not needed.

The game looks fine, runs fine on most rigs. Why would they bother just to cater to a niche request that would eat up staff and dev time at the exclusion of those without big rigs.

Makes no sense if you think about it.

Wait for a price drop and roll a new profession in core.

HoT is geared towards maxed out mains and PvE grind. If your a more casual player or WvW focused I’d stick to the core game, maybe roll another toon as there are heaps of new players around due to the f2p, and drop your coin on another game.

Unless your into PvE grind, wait for a sale imho.

Farm Silver Wastes.

God no.

My old piece of kitten rig runs this game smooth as silk. My GPU doesn’t even know DX12 exists. Shhhhhh.

Seriously though if you want a DX11+ game don’t play one that was released over 3 years ago.

+1 OP

Anet seemingly struggle to realize that the casual majority actually have more import to the longevity of this game than the “hardcore play games all day every day” minority, many of who troll these forums daily. The shift to f2p so close to HoT release was hardly a coincidence.

Most casuals don’t complain…they just move on.

I dig HoT in many ways but tbh I’m still having WAY more fun in core…after 3 years.

That’s kinda my buzz too.

HoT has me looking elsewhere and I’ve never thought like that since 2005 when Prophecies dropped. Love this franchise but it’s turning into a game I just don’t enjoy much anymore.

Grindwars 2 and gated content? No thx.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Core is awesome
HoT is poo

Yuppers your right.kk.Thx

The trend of discontent both here and more importantly in-game worries me.

Personally I don’t find it fun. I’m having more enjoyment mapping core on my Revenant with f2p players than I am on my mains in the HoT maps. Normally I wouldn’t care less, that’s just my take so who cares, but this seems to be a common issue from vets I’ve known since Prophecies.

Happy to be proved wrong in 6 months or so but I won’t be holding my breath.

Kerin.9125:

fireflyry.7023:

People are leaving this game, not doom and gloom forum kitten, but actual in game observation, subjective en masse.

Given the mega-server tech completely hides any idea of what the server pops are, and seeing as how Anet like everyone (even Blizzard from now on) don’t publish player numbers then this assertion of yours has zero facts to back it up.

That’s why I used the term subjective en masse based on little more than in-game observation.

Read more.

They steered gold/mat/time/sink into the wrong place. Sure make guild halls a challenge but they are a straight up resource sink/work simulator for lack of other options.

Player housing should be easy, not a kitten grind. Grind out your sword of eternal beer breath or whatever.

As much as people want to QQ about QQ this thread has a valid point and Anet need to wake up.

People are leaving this game, not doom and gloom forum kitten, but actual in game observation, subjective en masse.

I did too, for the ten minutes it took to realize my old build was better.

Have fun with +1 dodge though.

Mapping core on my Revenant has been great fun.

Ummm….yeah that’s about it…

Cyninja.2954:

Except for all the skills you had to farm over the next few hours/days and areas you had to access reach in order to do so.

Don’t get me wrong, the end gear grind certainly is longer in GW2, but people do tend to have very pink colored glasses as to the overall grind.

All the while cosmetic items in GW1 were a ton more expensive than in GW2. Not even going to get into pre Heroes GW1 (you know, the one everyone played before Nightfall and EotN came along?). Forced grouping for just about any content since henchman were trash.

All valid points (…you just gave me flashbacks of screaming at henchies…was it Tom or something?That warrior henchy…oh man….head meet keyboard :P) but I guess I never found it that bad. The only real grind was titles and a few key PvE skills, the former could be totally ignored, the latter attained in a few days.

It’s highly subjective I guess, more so given my history of solo UW ecto farming.

It’s really quite simple.

Sure the new content was advertised as being harder. What they did’nt mention is that this was going to be the only content on offer. All they needed to do was release another four maps of “watch netflix and spam 1111” or whatever the “hardcore” call such content to keep everyone happy.

It’s not the fact the new content is harder, something I personally enjoy, as opposed to the fact they released nothing…NOTHING…on par with the open-world PvE content up to that point.

That’s stupid.

Nah he’s right. In GW1 you got max level and gear in a week or two, then forgot about it and enjoyed the game for the next few years.

It ‘s probably a grind fest now though, but that’s 5 years after everyone bailed ship.

PS:Give me a yell if you’d like some help in GW1.Would love to dust my Sin and my Sabway off

DoctorDing.5890:

The real e-sport success will come with the next generation of games. Gaming companies that are not experimenting with it now will probably not be around in a few years.

That’s a really valid point I’d never really thought of, although I don’t see not being involved in E-Sports being a nail in the coffin for many, if any, game companies. I’d probably be less caustic if I thought Anet were just testing the waters to see what happens though, maybe as a blueprint for future projects?

In saying it’s really a case of picking what you want to be. Imho Anet is trying to hard to be to much to everyone. Not enough butter, too much bread.

Across the board I think the MMORPG format is just terribad in regards to transitioning to a popular E-Sport. It’s way to convoluted and inaccessible for the public to be an enjoyable watch. As previously stated great “e-sport” games are first and foremost easy for the layman to understand.

MMORPG PvP is anything but.

Fair call OP.

The game was already becoming a work simulator, now it’s all staff on deck to get anywhere. I don’t finish work to then come home and log-on to my second job, and look out if my other staff..oh I mean guild members…clock in late.

lolz.

It’s sad to see this sentiment becoming so prevalent though, more so in game. GW was always that game you played to get away from such things. I worry for the future of the franchise if they keep killing such a major point of difference that attacted so many..

To be honest I’ve had more issues forgetting about the glider and taking the long road in HoT.

#facepalm#

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

Have to call BS on that.

My main guild is full, mainly casuals who have played since release, but not one has gotten ascended just by playing the game and having fun, most for on 3 years. It’s a complex and fixated goal, not a fall in your lap just playing anyway kinda thing.

Then again maybe your just lucky?