Guild Wars 2

Zodryn.4216:

For leveling, d/d with caltrop util and caltrop on dodge is pretty fun. Decent survival with dodges from 3 spam. Run signet of malice and you can jump into a mob and bleed everyone to death with good sustain (it procs on hits from 3 AND on every tick of caltrops). P/D is a more active style but not as good vs many enemies.

^Pretty much this.

Just tag as many mobs as you can, drop caltrops via the trait when you dodge and the utility when the mobs are bunched after aggro and 3xDB.With SoM as your heal it’s pretty much impossible to drop. Due to the new “steal may recharge” trait I add a trap to my utility that pops a thief as I often trigger it and have two thieves running around or I slot in Roll for ini so I can steal back in and drop more bleeds and then rinse repeat if I get the trigger.

Have pretty much run this build since release and it’s great for solo play. You can pretty much finish this game PvE wise using auto-attack but bunching all that trash mob and bleeding them to death is way faster. I leave the gank builds for PvP or Dungeons.

D/P is meta hence it’s the best and “strongest” way to go.

Then again play what you enjoy. I’m a S/D player by nature and we just got the nerf bat but I don’t really care.I still play it and have fun doing so.

I’ve seen some great D/D’s still absolutely rocking it too lately.

Long story short play around and stick with what you enjoy more.If it suits your play-style and you enjoy it you have already won.

Oh ok Vayne…so now it’s about the amount rewarded?

Seems pretty clear from the above comments from myself and others that we have commented on the difference in the requirement and mechanics to complete the in-game daily….the amount rewarded was never even mentioned but NOW it’s suddenly relevant?

Meh…I’m done.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes, you pretty much are actually saying what I said. You want it so that players to be able to complete the daily in whatever matter they saw fit. Just throw on a timer for how long it takes to complete the daily now and there you go. I’m also disagreeing with the use of intuitive as it seems it’s just being used as a catch word.

I’m really not, I’m comparing how the old system was too the new system.This has nothing to do with my wants or needs…just how it was and how it is now and which I prefer….while your debating and disagreeing with yourself.

Driften.8716:

fireflyry.7023:

I’m more optimistic.

Sure they have yet to drop comment or respond but Anet have a history of this with such classes as they are a pain in the kitten to get right.They often don’t respond until they have something of actual weight and substance to say.

With Anet’s history, specially on thieves, the response is just that “working as intended”. This will be in the thief subtext as Mezmers gain another boon.

Same happened to Sins in GW1 and everyone freaked out…then CA dropped…

Ayrilana.1396:

fireflyry.7023:

MeGaZlo.9516:

Really?
I do not understand what people complain about….

…uhhh….this…

Menadena.7482:

Yes, a little thing, but I want my main play time to be doing what I want to do. Not something that someone else decided I should be doing.

Hardly rocket science.

Outside many are just plain out lazy design. Go farm here…go look at vistas you already have here…use this class you can’t stand…etc, etc.

The old system was more intuitive in that it usually gave you the daily for merely playing…on a daily basis in anyway you saw fit or enjoyed.

Imagine that.

Or you can just request that they change it so that players can just play the game for 15 min in any way they see fit and complete the daily when that timer elapses. That’s pretty much what you’re suggesting.

No I’m not. You said that in place of actually having valid rebuttal.

Daily log-in covers that.

My point being the old system was..again…intuitive and symbiotic with just generally playing the game how ever one wanted to. You just logged in and played and sure…sometimes you got it pretty quickly (although I can’t recall ever getting it in 15 minutes…..30-45 maybe if all the dailies just happened to fit into my class and what I was up to at the time) but most of the time as I said earlier you got to 80-90% after a few hours then spent a minimal amount of time finishing it off before logging off.

You see this is a big thing for people like me who play MMORPG’s to actually roleplay. I have a set character at that point in time, with set goals. I couldn’t care less about dailies. My current character is on her/his personal journey and story and the old daily system fitted in with this style of play. It just naturally occurred with playing the game for an hour or two with little impact on how I actually wanted to play the game.

It pretty much rewarded all styles of daily play non-intrusively.

I didn’t have too jump on another toon, go farm trees in some place I had no interest in, or jump on a PvP “Cheat the daily system” server etc, etc to complete it.

Vayne.8563:

The old system was silly. Sure it was good for you. You didn’t have to do anything to get the reward. Of course people liked it.

Thats kitten.

You still had to play the game regularly for a start and you most certainly did’nt get it for logging on and standing in a PvP server.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Really?
I do not understand what people complain about….

…uhhh….this…

Menadena.7482:

Yes, a little thing, but I want my main play time to be doing what I want to do. Not something that someone else decided I should be doing.

Hardly rocket science.

Outside that many are just plain out lazy design. Go farm here…go look at vistas you already have here…use this class you can’t stand…etc, etc.

The old system was more intuitive in that it usually gave you the daily for merely playing…on a daily basis in anyway you saw fit or enjoyed.

Imagine that.

This would embrace build variation. Seems pretty apparent Anet aren’t into that anymore.

Seems like filler outside WvW.

I don’t even bother with them now and ignore them as I don’t get the luxury of much game time due to outside commitments and I work so I dislike work simulation in any game which is all dailies really are now.

I don’t play games for that kitten.

The old system rocked as I never had to really go outside just playing any way I wanted to.It was a symbiotic reward system for playing the game how you wanted to on a regular basis. Normally I’d get 90% of them just by playing how and where ever I wanted to, then maybe take 10 minutes to finish the daily off before logging.

Now they are way too specific. Play a class I either dislike, don’t even have or can’t be bothered playing at the time. Go to an area that has zero to do with where I’m at in either a role-playing sense or relevant to my level, etc, etc.

They are just way to disruptive to playing the game how I want in the short amount of time I have to play it.

As such I now couldn’t care less and ignore them completely.

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

fireflyry.7023:

Knee-jerk reaction is knee-jerk reaction and $10 says you’ll buy it at some stage.

You didn’t read my post. I specifically said this is not just due to the removal of Ricochet, it’s their history of implementing similar fun-ruining changes to the game.

Nah not really.

To specifically state and imply are two vastly different things.

The main focus of your op was ricochet.You started on it, and you finished on it. Don’t back-track just because I used the overall theme of your op to formulate my rebuttal while knowing you will buy HoT at some stage but just don’t want to admit it due to post-patch forum rage.

Come on man…once the anger dissipates you know it will happen.

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

fireflyry.7023:

… but to straight up state I’m quitting “forever!!!” and won’t buy HoT while throwing all my toys out of the cot on the forum seems a gross over-reaction given the genre.

Again, must’ve skim-read my post and made assumptions. No where did I say I wasn’t playing the game. I said I’m not buying HoT (it’s the title of this thread for the love of Pete), and also I stopped spending money in the Gem Store. My decision is to not give aNet any more of my money because they keep breaking their promise to let us play how we want and to give us build diversity.

Fair call.

I didn’t miss-read your op or make assumptions but I fully agree I over-generalized when I responded and lumped you in with other posts here in regards to the world ending and /uninstall due to such issues post-patch.

Funny thing is, especially as a major GW1 fan, I agree with you, especially in regards to the lack of build diversity. I just get disillusioned with these forum posts concerning context that generally equates too “I’m angry.kthx bye Anet” only to see the same poster here the next day.

On topic though even you must realize that HoT will become a prerequisite for staying relevant in any part of Tyria. I can’t imagine playing the game without the expansion will be fun for long unless you like gimping yourself.

…so we can then be declared op and get nerfed…again.

No thx.

Initiative is the last thing on most thieves minds atm.

Shadowwarrior.7159:

fireflyry.7023:

Lowest HP….now nerf the classes main source of damage mitigation….more….

Well just to point out the facts: thiefs, eles and guards have the same amount of HP, without using gear.

That’s kind of a no-brainer but I apologise for not including the word “pool”.

WereDragon.6083:

Stealth counter? Common sense and AoE.

^this.

See you in-game 2mrw OP

Knee-jerk reaction is knee-jerk reaction and $10 says you’ll buy it at some stage.

It’s an MMO, these things take time to get right. Don’t get me wrong I’m just as annoyed as the next disgruntled back-stabber at some of the recent changes made to the class and it has certainly tempered my excitement for the expansion but to straight up state I’m quitting “forever!!!” and won’t buy HoT while throwing all my toys out of the cot on the forum seems a gross over-reaction given the genre.

You have no idea what the game or class might be like in a few months. To not even entertain the idea that things might get better just seems overly defeatist, or maybe I’ve just played more MMO’s and seen this happen over and over and over again on forums which struggle to realize they are mainly avenues for minority complaint with little to no input on the game anyway. The self importance and delusional import people often place on gaming forum opinion often baffles me.

If I had a gold coin for every time I’d read a post-patch diatribe on how the game is now ruined and it will be dead in under a year with everyone leaving I’d be rich.

Reality is not much will actually happen.

I’d just accept that we are in a time of massive transition and mechanical change.Once the dust has settled I’m pretty confident I’ll be seeing you in-game having a blast.

I’m more optimistic.

Sure they have yet to drop comment or respond but Anet have a history of this with such classes as they are a pain in the kitten to get right.They often don’t respond until they have something of actual weight and substance to say. Angry assumption and speculation doesn’t really solve anything either.

Given the past I take such silence as a good thing else I’m sure it would have been “working as intended.kthx” on patch day.

I’d dig the option.

This game often feels like Pigeon Wars 2 which is pretty immersion breaking for me personally, in game with no actual flight mechanic.

Extreme.8350:

Carighan.6758:

Timiok.1048:

I agree to what you mean, we need at least 2 skills that have reveal on each class.
However your example seems a bit overpowered.

That seems a bit excessive.

Wouldn’t a better solution to stealth be to do one of the following:

• Remove stealth (my favorite option, globally, across all MMOs).
• Reduce stealth duration so it cannot be used for anything but momentary defense and reposition.

typical heavy class player mentality
Might as well delete renewed focus and endure pain while their at it.

Couldn’t agree more.

Stealth is a popular mechanic in the majority of MMO’s for a reason. People love the play style just as much as those who can’t stand it. The irony is people don’t like the fact they have to suddenly be tactically aware of such classes and respond on the fly as opposed to the normal charge in and spam attacks until everything dies because of equally impressive DPS but a massive difference in regards to HP and armor.

The response is accurate in that as much as I find Warriors and Guardians annoying and they often slaughter me I wouldn’t suddenly cry for their HP and armor to be nerfed (DPS tweak maybe).

That’s their damage mitigation, stealth is of equal import to mesmers and more so thieves. I’d rather see the class deleted entirely then see it neutered in such a fashion.

Variation.

Think of it like anything else you enjoy OP.If you listen to the same album/artist day in, day out, or eat the same thing for dinner every night it will get boring pretty darn quickly. Same with games like this. After leveling and doing everything the first time on your first character everything becomes pure grind or work simulation unless you re-roll.

Some people dig repetition of content in order to garner reward. It’s a valid playstyle but I get you don’t enjoy it, neither do I.

I mean I love RPG’s but after completing one I don’t then play it again, and again and again and again ad nauseum for years on end. I might repeat it once in a few months if I really enjoyed it or it’s designed around replayability like Skyrim or Transistor for example.

It’s really just a common trait of such games, player fatigue, BUT the awesome thing with this game….no sub.

Take a break for a few weeks or months.Play something else for awhile.I tend to binge and purge on GW playing a lot for a few months to then get bored with it and not log on for as long (winter/summer).

What I don’t get is all these weird threads asking Anet to please do something about individual boredom or player staleness like a dog barking for a bone. Just go do something else for a bit.

Hardly rocket science.

saalle.4623:

So your point is….make thief hard to play wile other classes stay 1 shot kill?Why dont they start from warrior then since hes OP or elementalist.Why does always assassin class need to be “skill based” wile rest of the classes are spam buttons??

Pretty much sums it up for me.

Lowest HP….now nerf the classes main source of damage mitigation….more….

I want what your on…double dose.

Dust it off and move on.

Certain players find new ways every day to break or twist the games mechanics or intended gameplay function(s) purely for greed or their own selfish gain/motivations. It’s an unfortunate side-effect of any game that involves so much grind. Most of this game revolves around repetition of content as quickly and efficiently as possible. You mess with that…peeps get kittened.

I doubt Anet care much or will ever change it, if they did the same issue would just pop up somewhere else.

You’ll get used to adjusting your chat and online/away/invis status to the point where such people are simply unable to taint or influence your experience at all. I find in most MMO’s it’s often more effective to be proactive as opposed to defensive with such things.

I assume you don’t pvp op.

Perma-stealth.

kthx

Seriously though I hope it’s a melee weapon.If I want pew pew I’ll jump on my ranger or mes. Outside that evasion and mitigation are my hopes.

Dreams are free.

Increasing the hp would kill the class for me.

Much like Assassin in GW1, or any other MMO I play, I love playing “glass-cannon” classes that offer high risk vs high reward gameplay. I enjoy being punished for the slightest mistake.

I do agree evasion and mitigation needs an overhaul. Acrobatics is pretty rubbish as it stands but I think the core issue atm is that DPS and conditions aren’t balanced relative to certain health pools, which overall to me reeks of certain classes and skills needing a DPS nerf…not us needing a buff which would imho be counterintuitive and do more harm than good.

Increasing the base hp would just reward and encourage bad play and bad players.

Fixing evasion, mitigation and some of the one-shotting due to outrageous DPS spikes would not.

The main problem here for me is how long it has taken to make these changes.

I don’t believe for a second it has to do with HoT. If it actually does that’s one of the sloppiest and laziest fixes for bad game design I’ve ever heard of considering firstly it’s not even out yet, and secondly HoT should have been designed with this mechanic in mind.

Same goes for exploits. Fix the actual exploit! Don’t punish and slow down the whole game and playerbase because a small minority abuse the mechanic in niche’ circumstances. Again that just comes across as an incredibly lazy fix.

Anet seemingly have this horrible trend of giving players fun, freedom and presumably established game mechanics for years only to then make sweeping and retroactive changes under the mantra of “improvement for the overall game” while for the individual player it’s yet again taking away an aspect or mechanic that they enjoyed while imposing restrictions WAY too far after the fact.

It’s the NPE all over again.

It’s really a mickey mouse way of going about things that only serves to annoy a lot of pre-established and long-term players and justified or not it reeks of being either completely disorganised, highly arrogant or far to concerned with this fantastical influx of “new players” coming to the game Anet keeps catering for at the expense of those that actually matter.

NB:The funeral reception for my Thief is at 2pm sharp.Please bring a plate.He should turn up around 5pm.

I think it’s really too early to give any opinion of merit when it seems so blatantly obvious that there will be a lot of changes to this system and the game overall in the next few months.

My initial anger and befuddlement at this new system has now been replaced by a feeling of limbo and complacency. I am still annoyed as they have pretty much destroyed any enthusiasm or motivation I had to return to the game in any sort of regular fashion, at least until the dust settles.

The vast majority of the playstyle and builds I enjoyed have all but been destroyed and there’s no way I’m wasting time or gold buying new gear to make myself viable again until you guys have finished beta testing these changes for them, and they make the according changes to create a more stable and enjoyable experience.

Right now it’s a bit of a trainwreck.

Just logged in after the new changes and spent a fair few hours with it. Initial impression.

Ìt sucks. Hard.

Can’t believe they made yet another nerf to build freedom. As a GW1 fan this was always one of the games biggest selling points, yeah I know it’s GW2 and all that…let it go…different game, etc, etc and yet with every change to the trait system since GW2’s release all they seem to do is create more and more constraints on any form of customization or build variation.

I was so stoked to hear about the expansion and was looking forward to coming back to this game but this change has pretty much soured all my excitement.

This game now feels like an arcade fighter in regards to the blandness of the cookie cutter flow chart build system. What a generic snooze fest.

Galen Grey.4709:

You seem to value length of time the most so for you the most efficient way to get a legendary weapon is to repeat the highest rewarding content until you have enough money to get it.

That’s the meta mechanic.

Your rebuttal is preferential choice. That doesnt make sense and ignores the issue merely because there is a minority option to wack on trash mobs for 2 years and get the same goal.

Your getting personal with semantics at which point I say good day to you sir. Have fun ignoring dungeon runs and SW farms.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Not all console-only players are bad.

I love consoles, still use them. The Atari 2600 was my introduction to gaming.

In saying my 7 year old niece has a console…so do all her friends. My buddies 11 year old son has one…as does all his friends….etc, etc. They really do corner and cater to the younger demographic which is awesome.

I don’t know any children that age that regularly game on PC’s outside flash games or Facebook. Sure access to one but not regularly or seriously game on it.They gun for the console.To make things clear I’m not out to get into console vs PC wars or deny children the joy of gaming….I was, still am, that kid…

…but…

Imagine for a second the impact thousands of players of such a young age on voice chat that have little idea of the complexity of a game like this would have on the game world and meta.

Fubar.

In saying if age restrictive servers came out I’m all good for it but play a FPS on a console.Pug that game…..it can be painful. MMORPG’s on PC are largely a niche market. Going console opens it up to the masses and would have to be tightly controlled in order to keep the community and meta stable.

Your really missing my point my friend.

I have no qualms or opinion on the length of time taken in order to attain reward. I couldn’t care less. I take issue that currently the most efficient way to attain reward is repetition of content….again….repetition of content.

That’s it.

Anyway we seem to be talking in circles but good points and goodnight. Work and all that.

As said above, lower the afk timer, add a “pause” or “afk” option that can be used for say…5 minutes max…during which time no rewards could be earned…your pretty much a ghost till you get back from poopies. Use this more than say twice an hour…kicked from the zone for a few hours.

They could also implicate some sort of dishonour system aka GW1 whereby inactivity leads to vastly lessened reward.

Just throwing ideas out there.

Warrior….nobody seems to play that class.

Galen Grey.4709:

Do you really think if they made it so you could be done getting the best loot as you call it in a month that would fix the issue? would you play an MMO with no better loot to be had ever for years to come?

Of course not but again that’s ignoring the issue of grind as I see it. Repetition of content in order to most efficiently attain reward.

You just seem to argue that players have the option of gimping themselves and that this is a valid rebuttal for the games obvious grind. Your not forced to grind…take ten years to get your legendary…all good

Hey your ideology is beautiful….while we skip through the tulips on our unicorns and prance over rivers of chocolate. In saying it’s way out of touch with the topic of actual grind. Stating there’s another way to attain such goals slower really detracts from the fact it exists, is WAY faster, and could be changed to be less of a snore fest.

Ignoring it solves nothing.

Good. I hate wings in this game…you can’t fly.

I’ve seen a handful of players who seem to suit these and to them I apologise but overall these are the latest cool “shiny!!” and I’ll be glad when every second player isn’t running around with them.

That’s redundant rebuttal.

Grind walks hand in hand with efficiency of attaining reward. Your argument is that players have the choice to attain such rewards otherwise in a vastly inferior manner, if not pure coincidence…so that negates grind.

Grind by it’s very nature negates such argument.

They have capping in the new dailies.

Many just cap then go make a sandwich till the round ends. The players are not at fault in this regard.

Andred.1087:

Also, to the people arguing there is a grind in this game, why don’t you just kittening do something else if you don’t like it?

Here I was with the false assumption this was the medium given to the player base to debate such things. Clearly I forgot that if I or any other player takes issue with any part of the game I should just “get over it” and move on.

Apologies for the inconvenience and thanks for pointing it out…rather than just doing something else.

Galen Grey.4709:

now at the end of the day whether the game is grindy or not depends on your play style.

This is used again and again as rebuttal for games like Grind Wars 2.

“It’s totally up to how you want to play…..stand in a field all day with your rusty spoon wacking on potatoes…no grind at all…”.

The vast majority of people who play games like this want the best loot they can get. It’s an inherent part of the genres mechanic, the need to attain. The most efficient way to garner or attain such loot is too repeat content over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again in the most efficient way possible.

This game dictates that. Repetition of content is a core mechanic in order to attain reward.

That is grind….

I have been using the LFG tool with “Helping new players” as my header and as a consequence haven’t enjoyed the game this much since release.

Playing and helping new players is way more fun than repeating stale content with vets…this game needs to work on that.

The response to this hasn’t changed since GW1.

Level cap is the beginning of the game, if you can’t figure out what to do next in a game like this your playing it wrong….with a sock on your head.

Part of playing a squishy OP. L2P and take your time…getting completely pwned is a really good thing.

You clearly have a great attitude in that you want to learn more. You’ll be fine in time purely because your mature in your outlook of the situation. Kudos.

My 2 cents…always roll P/P as your offset when learning. Worst case….dodge or use your plethora of evasion skills to get out of trouble, you should have at least one on your bar, and pew pew. If combined with SoM you’ll gain health while you do so., then jump back into the fray with your melee.

Just think smart and have fun I guess. Thiefs can actually be highly survivable when played as such while ignoring the max dps zerker meta.

Happy to catch up in-game. Best of luck

As a non-charr player is the posture ok when relieving ones self on a tree, building or random Norn foot? I also question if the animations when licking one’s parts just because you can is without clipping?

As a fan of Druss and Snaga the Sender I’m all for this.

I’ll pass.

Keeping such games on PC dictates a certain demographic of player and quality of game. Imagine….just for a second….console players having access to this game…..

By the pubic hair of Zeus’s scrotum…it would be a complete train wreck of tanty, QQ, trolling and disaster.

I’m all for a good MMORPG release on consoles, just not this franchise thx.

While you ignore things like locking access to traits and early build experimentation.

Two sides to the coin bud.

D/D Ele….either a 30 second stomp…or a raging hurricane of Chuck Norris fists to my face while I wonder what the hell just happened.

Outside that Tribio nailed it.

SaintVandal.9386:

So, a little back story, I played the original Guild Wars for over 15k hours total, so when GW2 came out I instantly got a copy. However, since I was a PvPer, I didn’t like GW2 much so quit after about 20 minutes of gameplay.

That makes no sense.

You gave THAT much time to GW1, a game that just let it’s PvP die a slow death, but bailed on GW2 after 20 minutes?

Me no understand.

This is one of those threads where shortly after posting it the OP went…“Oh….woops…maybe should have done some simple research or played longer before posting that”…never to be seen in this thread again….

thehipone.6812:

Except GWAMM was nothing more than an optional title. Heck, you could get at least 25/30 just by playing through once in normal mode and once in hard mode and a bit of vanquishing/skill capture.

It was a reward given for repeating content ad nauseum because there was nothing else to do. 25/30 is not GWAMM and your ignoring the fact this was one of the most grindy rewards ever created in the genre. Getting to 75% quickly holds little relevance when the remaining 25% takes way more time and grind to attain.

The term “optional” is often thrown around as defense of grind based reward. It’s null and void given the mechanics of the game…think about it…

Anyone who believes anything Anet says in regards to grind never played GW1 or observed the transition from the brilliant game that started out as to the grind fest GWAMM chase it became. I wouldn’t trust Anet as far as I could throw them in this regard.

Fool me once, shame on you….