Looks like a bug, i can’t imagine it was intended…
Shoddy
programingjust like the rest of thepet codinggame that touches PvP
FTFY
I’m still of the opinion that Spirits need a flat out redesign, Putting Duck Tape on a failing building is not going to fix the problem
If they refuse to give them good actives and innate aoe dmg reduction, turning them into banners would be the next best thing.
Forcing traits to make allot of utilities viable is a kitten way to balance btw.
They seem to have this idea that it helps balance builds, even though the only thing it ends up doing is forcing classes into cookie cutter specs…
A terrible way to use their trait setup.
Major traits related to utilities should be, for the most part, minor buffs/tweaks to the utilities not flat out requirements to use them…
Either make traits focused on cleansing/dmg buffs or make utilities the main source of cleansing… not this kitten split where there is obviously a ‘far better than utility cleanse’ in a number of classes traits scheme, where the majority of traits are 5% dmg buffs and CD reductions. That forces the trait to be the most efficient way to build your spec, to the point it ends up being the only viable way to build your spec… well in anything short of a super burst dps…
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I haven’t tested to see if I can prime my drake’s lighting attack with it, but I know you can pop signet of the wild while they’re charging their attack.
You can’t.
Using Sick ‘em is a knew command for the pet saying ’stop what you are doing and go to this target and attack for 10~ seconds’ it interrupts any current actions.
I personally tested it with the drakes.
Literally only worthwhile for jaguar and Rampage as One spikes.
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Maybe when other pets besides 2 felines, 2 birds, 2 canines are playable in PvP I might come back.
That and fix cleansing.
Trait cleansing is the necessary cleansing, and I did say FIX it, that is make it so cleansing is a more readily available part of classes instead of just found threw one~ necessary tier 2-3 trait or a heal skill or a utility… the typical “if its good nerf it, if its bad up the numbers” mentality won’t come close to fixing this game. MANY THINGS NEED TO BE REWORKED NOT SLAUGHTERED WITH INTERNAL CDs AND MILD NUMERIC TWEAKS.
Seriously wanted to throw a drake and spirit into my lineup for the intense protect me and barkskin, but spirits still blow and require a painful amount of traits to be mediocre (seriously Anet, what is your obsession with requiring traits to make things viable?!?!?! they should be bonuses not necessities. So stupid) and the shody drake F2 AI, it responds worse than any other pet I’ve played, like only triggers 1/3 the time I click it and never in a timely manner, if you use it during the 2s swap frenzy it will auto miss all the attacks in the channel, it requires a 2~s channel where the enemy has to stand in its 200-600 range cone to land its dmg, killed it…
kitten
Anyways.
Maybe in a year or so they will get their kitten together or hire new people.
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Yeah I’m done with this game for now.
And I seriously have nothing to do with my time but like read or sign up for a swim team or something.
Maybe in a year or two, or if they get a new dev team they will get their kitten together.
I’ve given these guys waaaay too many shots when it comes to PvP.
Shoulda just left this game when my brother and all my friends did.
Drake HP doubled
Still next to useless in PvP.
You can’t swap for a quickness F2, it literally won’t work.
Either it just sits there staring at you or will cast the skill, putting it on CD, without facing the target and all the shots will go threw anyone they happen to hit, netting no dmg….
That and if anyone walks out of the 600 range cone cast (by moving threw the pet or just out of the range), with like a dodge roll after the skill starts casting… it fails…
The pet is just a complete mess in PvP.
I desperately wanted to throw it in my more pet focused protect me/barkskin build… but it just doesn’t seem to cut it.
Kinda ruins the build too.
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Imo it was one of the best signets, even before patch.
I haven’t seen a respectable ranger run it ever since I came back from my 4~ month break from the game.
So I think they have a rough idea of what they are doing… this time.
Is Anet sure that ‘where in it to win it’ or whatever jazz they have going right now should be there company motto, instead of something like….
‘One step forward, two steps back’
I mean it’s beautiful, a nice cliche people can relate to, to boot people always respect an industry with integrity, truthful to the core, exc. no one would ever have a misplaced hope in the guys, when you come in expecting rubish even the bad side of mediocre can appear to be godsend, just by comparison.
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No CD on frost…and “idiots”? Get that trash off the forums.
That isn’t in the notes
(still downloading the patch)
but it’s progress, that one unwritten tweak… short of that, from everything in the notes, it seemed that when they finally took the time to look at these utterly useless set of utilities they nerfed to the ground at the end of beta… after 8~ months of time to get a general idea of where the game is at… the patch only ended up throwing out a few minor buffs related to spirits, buffs that didn’t actually do anything on track to fixing any of the major problems with them in PvP…
I’d think that that is pretty stupid, wouldn’t you?
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They should have just scrapped mantra channeling, its a bad mechanic.
No one wants to channel a skill for 3 kittening seconds.
No one wants to be forced to run stealth utility skills just to not have a dead utility slot during a fight or pray they aren’t fighting someone with timely CC.
It doesn’t make gameplay more fun, just punishes/awards you for the enemies spec… whether or not it has timely CC.
There already is waaay too much of that with stability/CC breaks/conditions/direct dmg, its a terribly niche game where only a few specs actually have everything needed to actually work, it needs less of that sort of mentality, not more.
Channeling mantras is simply, a bad mechanic.
Anet, seriously you can scrap things, you should scrap bad ideas in the game.
GW2 was released kittenING waaaay too early and has pretty much no playerbase left.
There is nothing to lose from a trial period as you get all the kitten worked out of the game, only opportunity.
Just scrap it for something like a passive recharge… something like ‘you take 15~% more dmg and can’t regen endurance (possibly instead just ‘can not evade’) for 4~ seconds’.
A change from a flaming long kitten cast time could add a ton more depth to the skill.
No numeric change, Anet seriously I’m not joking, I can’t see any numeric tweak making mantra channeling a good mechanic…
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Even if specced fully on condition removal, even Ele’s, Guardians or Engis cannot keep themself clear of conditions. And they have tons of removals.
Wow…
You can’t completely shut down a fully and only condition specced enemy threw nothing but face tanking conditions then cleansing… only mostly shut him down…
aaanyways, yeah, trait cleansing is kitten
At this point either traits should be the main source of cleansing or utilities, not this attempt at both. It just makes Anet decree, for the most part, what ways you have to spec in PvP. For rangers, you have to go 30 wilderness survival for empathetic bond, if you can’t your spec doesn’t tend to be up to par… ele’s have to go 20-30 water for cleansing… engi’s have to go for elixer cleansing…
It’s kitten
Either tag on specific cleanses to allot of the utility skills (like ones that typically can only remove a few specific conditions, sometimes possibly a cap on how many stacks of bleed or duration of burn/poison/exc. it can remove) or just make minor traits give cleansing/minus-a-specific-conditon-duration so every spec at least has a base way to cope with conditions. Then the occasional major trait/utility can just supplement that if the person wants.
It’d give speccing a charector so much more freedom.
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I want Anet to make a massive chart of ‘roles in TPvP’
What classes should do what roles and how, what synergies they want between different classes/specs.
From there they can have a clearer direction for their buffs/nerfs, one that the community can fallow and top tier players can comment on/advise/critique pretty correctly.
It’d be far better all around.
The game would get the tweaks it needs and the community wouldn’t feel constantly shaat on.
@Bushido.2184
Completely agree.
It just doesn’t seem like a good game to cast/watch at its core.
Rezzing/rallying isn’t a good mechanic at all for it (with how common and with no negatives after rezzing, especially if done by 2+ people or a bunker, it ruins the sense of progression in a fight and losses from a victory), conquest is a terrible map for casting, the combat is mediocre for it at best… not to even mention the terribley stagnant meta from the balancing job Anet is doing.
GW2 never had any real hope of being an Esport after what was released at Beta.
Right now its just struggling to have a player population… if it pulls off keeping TPvP alive threw the year that’s a massive accomplishment for Anet in and of itself.
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I do not understand those who still want their pets and the spitting (nerfing) of their damage.
Just because Anet sucks at balancing/design doesn’t means the concept isn’t a good mechanic.
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Then you should know that after the changes, Ranger will probably be the best PvP class.
You should probably know from playing GW2 that it is a game of roles, and from what I’ve seen, at best rangers fill 1-2 roles revolving around small skirmishes or evade spam stalling…
Even with a mild bump to pet life they won’t be good at group engagements.
Even with a more responsive F2 they won’t be good at group engagements.
Even with a higher spirit proc rate (yet they said nothing about the crippling 10s internal CD) they won’t be good at group engagements.
I already am pretty clutch at working the pets F2, so at best this is a mild buff, mainly effecting my ‘protect me’ lifespan and the number of beastmaster rangers I fight.
Oh and I might win a fight or 2 that I wouldn’t otherwise where a thief jumps into the fight, since I will hopefully be able to more rely on an asap middle of the fight drakehound aoe imob.
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Spirits: Honestly this needs to be reworked. They should be like banners. They can’t be targeted or killed. Since they would still expire and have to be recast as well as starting out anchered in place, the only trait that would have to be changed is the hp one.
I’m fine with them being killable.
Just make the active better (so if someone does go near it, it means something), and up the health a bit beyond 6k along with some innate reduced dmg from aoes.
Along with the better active and reduced aoe dmg, 8~k life would be fine with a trait for double.
When it comes to procs they should have a raw proc chance with 2~ second internal CD, something like a 15~% proc chance that can get buffed to 40~% with a trait, ideally its merged into the double life or moving spirits one.
That or if it was just for a slap together fix, up the buff radius, lower the internal CD, and up the health to 12-15k so you can just lay them down out of the way as a passive proc engine.
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It was advertised as a pet class.
It was also advertised that classes were balanced.
It is balanced, rangers are one of the best but hardest to play classes in the game, you have to manage that bad AI pet.
Sure, they are in the top 5~ classes.
But so are most classes…
They aren’t obscenely hard to play, it mainly just involves a bit of micro and good evade timing.
I have more respect for good mesmers/necros.
(I play ranger in under rank 100 tournies)
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In WvW anything can make big numbers.
In TPvP, longbow is completely subpar.
/endthread.
Meh.
Just making the pets take reduced dmg from aoes in PvP while adding in a ‘go here button’ would work fine.
Trappers shouldn’t have to compensate for craptastic trait setup with gear alone – the traits ought to compliment the utilities they govern.
Trap rangers aren’t having trouble making up for ‘craptastic traits’
My trap ranger runs beautifully in tournies and I am one of the top tier rangers in the game atm.
The real issue is though, your changes in these regards wouldn’t open up more builds.
Moving empathetic bond to the beastmaster tree would only force the vast majority of rangers to be 30 beastmasters. Empathetic bond is the only trait cleansing for rangers and trait cleansing is easily the best cleansing.
Your fix doesn’t fix the problem but force allot of competent PvP’ers from one build to another.
(I hope your starting to see where one of the real problems with the trait setup is)
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Except that it’s not considering that it’s on a 45s rehcarge and can be blocked (noticed the aegis + invuln spam that’s on EVERY bunker in the meta right now?)
Mug is overpowered as an adept trait. You’ll rarely find an adept trait this strong for other professions.
Should have moved the trait not gimmped it.
The point is to make more builds viable not trash one in exchange for another.
Anyways.
Mug is instant, if someone blocks your mug you kittened up or got terribly unlucky.
A ‘go here’ button and for the pets pathing to actually head straight towards to target would be all I need.
But Anet probably feels that forcing a player to tell his pet to go behind a PvE mob or out of an aoe is ‘too complicated’ just like making the individual abilities on the pets usable on demand…
kittening Anet doesn’t realize that being able to micro is far better than being forced to deal with kittenty AI.
Skirmishing:
Swap Trapper’s Expertise with Martial Mastery. Move Trap Potency to Wilderness Survival (Grandmaster Trait) and replace with “Master Skirmisher:” Critical hits while in melee range deal 10% more damage.
Wilderness Survival:
Trap Potency has been moved here, under my suggestions – move Empathic Bond to Beast Mastery, and remove Instinctual Bond.
That doesn’t help balance at all.
Switching around trait lines because they seem to fit the stats/theme more is a terrible way to balance.
Everything else seems pretty mediocre short of the pet dmg change. It’d let them balance ranger raw power based dmg more, since they don’t have such massive innate pet dmg to compensate for in small skirmishes.
I win a number of tough 1v1s or 1v2s in competitive matches because of that elite.
I kittening love it.
Looking forward to a 75% chance on spirit procs at least ( I think that’s what I heard in SOTG anyways) :/
The 10s internal cooldown remains though. They haven’t said anything about that. I wold be more happy about no cooldown and 30% traitable proc chance.
With no bump to internal CD the upped proc chance from that trait to ‘help balance spirits’ does quite literally nothing.
No one will take it still.
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@Stealth.9324
Deleting the post that you were blatantly trolling in doesn’t mean you weren’t trolling.
Rambling about ele build diversity as an answer doesn’t address anything and doing so right after talking about how ‘serious’ you take this discussion only ironically makes you seem like even more of a troll.
I never said anything about Longbow being noble Dps whatsoever. YOU can stop put your thinking in my line. You can’t denied Longbow is the best set out there to apply condition. And condition ignore armor and toughness. What else has?Lowest health pool among all class. Condition eat us alive if we don’t pay attention to what conditions on us.
I also pray to GoD you never see a decent Warrior Longbow or duel one.
Condition warrior… a threat to an ele??? your not even in the top 1000 on the leaderboard… I’m sorry, I seriously don’t think you know what you are talking about.
Low level pug play is vastly different from competent TPvP.
Speak about what you know, not what you want to know or else everyone will call you a troll because you will be, intentionally or not, trolling.
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I am a better player because of that skirmish
Dueling is, imo, the best way to learn how to fight a class and so get better at yours.
The hours on end of it I used to do is why I’m such a flaming beast on my ranger.
Custom arenas will ‘answer’ that problem, at least in ArenaNet’s eyes.
but with no points to control
Out of the lists of features Anet has thrown out there about custom arenas… the option to turn off capture points isn’t one of them.
They only allow skrimaging, dedicated dueling servers and marginal changes to a token SPvP match…
aka. nothing worth a kitten atm.
Public service announcement: Attunement cooldown is not 9 seconds.
From what I’ve seen, 9.3~ seconds isn’t very far from 9
Unless the game just rounds the decimal up without telling us??
@Stealth.9324
No need to troll.
Everything he stated was a relatively valid point.
Every elementalist goes 30 arcane so has a 9~s CD on attunement swap because its a fantastic trait line.
Being ‘stuck’ in d/d isn’t a really terrible deal when the set innately gives you 3 gap closers, pretty constant swiftness, 3~ great hard CCs, frost armor and self healing… to boot you get extremely good cleansing from traits and cantrips while the majority of fights are on objectives.
Warriors aren’t even comparable to elementalists atm.
Completely opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to balance.
If you are seriously talking about the longbow adrenaline skill like the burn is something that draws notable dps… that burn on a class that can’t spec for condition dmg and only applies 2s worth every 2s for 6~… pray to god you never fight a decent condi ranger.
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Actually on topic…
It hate how the state of the game is mainly just summarize whats happening next patch.
What I seriously would have liked to hear them talk about is team comps, what rolls they feel each class can play, what cross class synergy they see as good/bad and what they are trying to do to expand or limit that.
They are sticking die hard to conquest so it better be the flaming focus of all their actions.
That and they should seriously kitten allot of focus to BETTER MATCHMAKING.
People can live with mediocre balance and a pretty repetitive map schem, if matches generally are even… a lack thereof will kill a game even with decent balance and class archetypes.
For example:
If they added something like a slider saying ‘1->10 how competitive are you playing’ and you get matched with people of roughly similiar ranking of that and MMR, along with something like a ‘1->5 means unranked’ so you can try out new builds or mess around with friends.
That combined with a decent individual MMR… and suddenly there is good matchmaking.
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The whole point of SotG is to summarize what is going to happen next patch, not go into every single situation that is affected by every change. If they did that, it would be 5+ hours long…
NOOO
It’s not to summarize whats happening next patch.
Patch notes and dev blarbs in the forums work just fine for that.
What SotG is there for is so people can see the devs take on where the game is at at the moment, what they feel needs change along with how far the are in making it.
That can touch on patch notes, meaning the changes they are aiming for are being in part addressed in a the next few days, but should definitely for the most part stray from them.
What I seriously would have liked to hear them talk about is team comps, what rolls they feel each class can play, what cross class synergy they see as good/bad and what they are trying to do to expand or limit that.
They are sticking die hard to conquest so it better be the flaming focus of all their actions.
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Just wait untill it starts stealing all of your boons constantly because lolnocooldowns
HAH
Just because Anet ‘buffed’ something doesn’t mean its good.
1 random boon isn’t something great.
Being forced to use the new second attack after flanking strike, which doesn’t have an evade on it, means you can’t spam evade if you had to like you can now.
Did they mention how many booms this will steal ? or will it stay at one!
and guys be positive ;P boon hate build are actually really strong, imagine yourself stealing 25 might from HGH engi or stability from Ele’s or even swiftness from a running enemy as they try to run away. a guardian without protection is meat cake they just need to make it so the animation at the end of flanking strike doesn’t root you at the end.
The odds are terrible.
You would have to land it 3-4 times to get a somewhat reliable chance at the might stack on an HGH engi. That or blow a trait on that boon steal on steal.
(they have constant, refreshing, short duration vigor/swiftness; typically regen occasionally retal/protection/fury)
Wow
If this happen they better compensate with increased damage output.
Or make staff viable.
Hah!
Have you fallowed this game’s balancing at all???
It basically is mediocrely done wack a mole with top tier specs and laughably mediocre buffs to bad ones.
RTL needed to be changed, sure, that isn’t in question, but inevitably this change seems pretty mediocre and involves buffing nothing to be more viable.
Yes but now in 1v1 situation vs ele, ele might even have to run away from circle. Until now you could toy with warrior on circle. But this all depend how much dmg bonus warrior get per boon.
Ele’s don’t tend to bunker so they aren’t forced to stay on small BO’s often enough for a little more dmg against booned up enemies to really be a gamechanger against eles.
It’s 3% more dmg per unique boon which is roughly 15~% more dmg against a decked out ele.
The buffs seemed aimed at making warriors a hardcounter to guardians.
They can attack threw ‘shelter’ to CC it out.
They deal more dmg per boon the guy has up.
Guardians can’t kite.
Guardians don’t deal condition dmg.
Warrior hammer might be a lil more common because of that, but that’s the most of it I see coming.
Now that thief can steal boons, and warrior have trait that pretty much counter boon stacking meta ele might have big trouble.
Think about it, endless protection, vigor and regen might be heavily countered by thief and warrior.
From what I read, warriors aren’t notably better.
They can stack a few more pluses to dmg but all of their weaknesses are still entirely there.
They are terrible against conditions, kite-able, and have generally pretty bad dmg mitigation.
If warriors had a way to strip boons I would be scared.
They can be CC’ing beasts, so given a way to pull off stability they could end up as a force to be reckoned with.
When it comes to thieves… the only boon hate they got is on s/d… sword dagger isn’t popular in the slightest since cloak and dagger is just a much worse version of heartseaker/black-powder. Because of that s/d can’t benifit much from the stealth based condition removal and healing to stall/regroup… which is a massive loss…
Boon hate is nice.
Giving it to classes to make up for a large number of flaws is not nice.
It’s actually just bad design.
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If they upped the proc chance of spirits but kept the same 10s internal CD for all of them, I will laugh.
Then cry.
Currently, thieves are one of the worst classes in this game pvp-wise.
In tournies…
No.
You should fight Cruuk if you think otherwise.
Its a terrible fix.
They should have just moved it to focus or halved its range.
Then if they wanted to get crafty they could put it on a 5s CD if it hits and 15->20 if it misses.
Suddenly its a balanced skill with a decent skill cap.
If the flaws in design at least led to entertaining pug/casual play and Anet made most of the cosmetics cost gems… I could see the game living on and having the playerbase/income to improve.
GW2 has none of that.
They probably couldn’t hire you even if they wanted since their over their budget of 2 balancing devs and a half dozen code monkeys.
Aaaaaanywas…. making SPvP servers into what Anet has announced as their ‘custom arenas’, ironically, I see as, more likely than not, a bad thing for the game.
Anyone that has been checking into and has the hopes of coming back to GW2 will be coming back roughly after the release of custom arenas.
When people realize nothing has notably changed, they will leave and Anet will be kinda kittened from all sides.
Bad game, no money to fix it, no one willing to consider playing it.
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Solo que is terrible.
The matchmaking is kitten, if you’re decent either you que with a group and fight spastic matches more often than not against players that are decently skilled. Or pug and fight bads with a team of typically bads.
The game is going to go nowhere… when Anet releases their custom arenas and the majority of the game is still pretty mediocre at best… more people will leave again and never come back…
Signet of the hunt is rarely ever used.
A utility slot for movement speed and 1k~ more pet dmg at best every 30s just doesn’t tend to be worthwhile.
PvP beastmaster specs pretty much never run two canines and only spastically even use one. They are pretty much required to have a jaguar, you can land massive amounts of dmg threw its stealth crits buffed by beastmaster tree stats.
A raven fills the other spot usually as much, if not a bit less often, than a wolf.
Very few if anyone nowadays runs axe/torch, its mainly sword/torch shortbow.
I am the only decent ranger I’ve seen lately who even uses mainhand axe at all and I won’t ever drop dagger offhand for torch because an evade and cripple on that weapon set are just that nice.
Just went threw about 70 PvP dyes and made only 4~ gold worth of stuff :’(
(nothing over 98~ silver and only two of those…)
I still need another 8~ gold to get that really cool krytan medium armor, finally get myself out of this trenchout hell ><
Lol.
Only bad part is that it’ll take at least another month~ to get that many PvP crafting mats again… and allot of hope that I get more than 4 gold that time.
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Wait for the patch. Then decide.
I think that’s what the guy was asking about.
He’s been waiting since launch.
For rangers…
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQFAlC11xVBg2jMlET2DAc8xBUB-TEADPA
Is the basis for the vast majority of trap builds.
The most common varient by far is…
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAV8PjAV11xVo2Bi2jMZeMxecIH9oXh0fxSVJB-TsAAzCuIaS1krJTTymsNNAZ5x+DA
Because sword gives such great mobility it allows for the high toughness setup since it can drag on fights for a good deal of time. The third utility is really just up to your playstyle, for competitive tournaments, running the poison trap is always an option, so is signet of renewal and lightning reflexes.
I personally run…
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAV3YnAVUXZcFaBBaZgYVQQtHZSSYi9g/O6RXsRVSA-TsAgyCqIKSVkrITRyZszM8Y5x+DA
But that’s just because I’m weird.
Oh and the Beastmaster bunker build, I don’t like the spec so I probly won’t post it, its just the worst kind of bunker, an evade spam pet AI deeps monstrosity…
There is also a pretty offensive greatsword build floating around that more than not, flails a big sword around to sneak in more jaguar/stealth or possibly bird dmg. It does stuff like ‘pet swap->maul and bird F2’ for a pretty solid spike. I’m not too sure on the specifics since I’ve never really played it or seen it more than a time or 2.
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Nothing has changed.
guess why it’s such a bad skill :P
Most times you die before it has any effect or the pet is dead anyway.
It’s not too popular because the jaguar is such a popular choices for a pet and it dies like a kitten from protect me.
I run dual canines and it works out fine.
But I also run a lil quirky condition build, axe/dagger and carrion instead of the usual sword torch and rabid.
At the moment, Shadow Refuge is an overpowered skill. It’s more effective than my Signet of Undeath, as it has a shorter cooldown, stealths, and heals. I’m fine with buffing some other Thief skills, as long as that one is toned down. Alot.
It’s essentially an “All in one” skill. Which is dumb.
Aoes, people can still swing and chuck stuff at the spot where the downed person is.
Signet of undeath bypasses that and is ranged.
Shadow refuge has more overall utility though, which does make it notably better.
Rezzing while stealthed probably should reveal you.
Besides that the only thing I don’t like about shadow refuge is how long the duration for stealth you get from it is, ideally the refuge would have a bit larger area and last 8~ more seconds but only apply 2.5~ seconds worth of stealth every 2s your in it. It’d be cool if the thief would only get stealthed by it if he clicks the shadow refuge button while in it, so it just doesn’t accidentally burn revealed timers.
It’d be less of a ‘long stealth chareup’ and more of an offensive threat as the thief can pull out more stealth openers or stall if he stays in its area.
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I think the biggest issue with it in large fights is how condition damage doesn’t scale as well with larger numbers as direct damage does … there’s no direct damage cap … I hope ArenaNet eventually finds a way to deal with this issue.
No, conditions are fine in larger fights, forcing someone to burn cleanses on some bleed stacks makes that immobilize coming for the real spike a free kill.
The main problem with rangers though and group fights is that they either rely for the most part on pets or traps for dmg, pet get eaten alive by miscelanious aoes and trap rangers are largely evade based for survivability, something that gets much worse as fights get larger. To boot they don’t really offer much to the group.
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