Guild Wars 2

Correction: Moas – plural

It’s AoE

1-4-0 is a split, not a rotation

A rotation is moving teammates from one objective to another

Edit: to elaborate, the opening split is how your team seizes the initiative in a match. It’s important because it can set the tone for the rest of the match

Clone production needs a nerf. Then there will be room for more build diversity. With clone production as it is Shatter will always be the strongest option and there won’t be room for anything else.

+1 for editorial quality and music selection. Nicely done.

Supreme.3164:

hackks.3687:

I’m not sure how anyone can seriously say that Guardian’s using Judges and Ring of Warding isn’t miles easier than trying to set up a Magnet pull into a Slick Shoes. The Guardian doesn’t even need to have LoS. And he doesn’t have to keep running circles around you either.

The Ele just stands at range and ground targets. Tricky, for sure.

Same for Chaos Storm.

This is not the CC skill you’re looking to nerf… /wave of the hand

Are you seriously comparing static field and ring of warding to slick shoes? Guess you’re too biased for an honest discussion

You were complaining about an aoe field that stunned you repeatedly. What are RoW and Static Field if not aoe skills that will stun you multiple times if you run into them more than once. That’s a pretty straightforward comparison. No bias needed.

Why do you think Five Gauge is running without Slick Shoes when Phanta is playing the hammer Guardian?

I’m not sure how anyone can seriously say that Guardian’s using Judges and Ring of Warding isn’t miles easier than trying to set up a Magnet pull into a Slick Shoes. The Guardian doesn’t even need to have LoS. And he doesn’t have to keep running circles around you either.

The Ele just stands at range and ground targets. Tricky, for sure.

Same for Chaos Storm.

This is not the CC skill you’re looking to nerf… /wave of the hand

No other skills like it? Guardian’s Ring of Warding and Staff Ele’s Static Field say ‘hi’. They even have shorter CDs than Slick Shoes, too. You could make an argument for Chaos Storm as well. All of which are far easier to land than a Slick Shoes. Outplayed much?

The Thief’s role in PvP:

1- Kill the opposing Thief – first foremost and always
2- Kill the opposing DPS threats
3- Decap uncontested points

No one expects the Thief to team fight, but there is work to do before running off on your own. You have to complete #1 and #2 before you leave your team. Typically if you’ve done #1 and #2 then you’ve created a numbers advantage for your team, which means you can safely move on to #3 or rotate to another point to be a +1 for another teammate and start over at #1 again.

Rotating Rule of Thumb: Never rotate away from your team if it means leaving them outnumbered. You never want a rotation to cost your team a fight.

YuiRS.8129:

So this is becoming a trend for me now…

The game starts, I go far and cap it. My team loses mid and loses home to the enemy roamer.

You discerned the problem yourself. Stop doing this and use your brains instead.

but we like self deprecation…

As far as I remember Svanir Rune was OP because it made you Invulnerable while also holding the point. Guardians would use it with the Mace block bug and basically hold the point against full teams without getting decapped.

That was a long time ago, now lol #memorylane

Engi is: Incendiary Powder

Arguments can be made for Grenadier, Healing Turret, Supply Crate, Speedy Kits, Backpack Regenerator

Literally every build except Turrets is comprised of max points in Explosives, with the rest dumped into Alchemy and Tools, with maybe 2 points in firearms. The allocations change little as well as the traits themselves. You change Engi builds buy primarily swapping the weapons, amulet, and runes. That’s it.

1. LOL at 5 of you losing to a single Thief
2. It’s a zerg – it doesn’t care about 1 or 2 players, they’re zerging in order to farm rewards
3. This is PvP. No one cares about WvW here

Yes please!

There’s nothing in there I want, and I’m tired of being forced to deal with an overflowing bag of kitten.

If you think you got beat because of someone’s amulet, then you’ve got a lot to learn about PvP.

Evan Lesh.3295:

You were favored in your first two matches, so you lost one point in both. The third match was even, but you got over 400 points so your ladder points didn’t change. This is working as intended, but it sounds like you think the match prediction should weigh premades more versus solo players.

First of all, do you realize how unclear this makes the outcomes of matches when we don’t know what the handicap is and how much we need to win/lose by?

Secondly, if “winning” is contingent on a point spread for either side then that information needs to be shown, as it can directly influence strategy on both sides.

Lastly, why are you guys choosing to handicap in the first place? Why not structure the queues to be less varied in skill level? That is what the players want. And yes it might make queue times longer at first, but at least it will improve the player experience which just might improve player retention. You guys are throwing away the player experience just for the sake of faster queues and it’s destroying the PvP population as a result. Do you see that?

Clone production needs nerf
Greatsword too easy

/thread

Consider it from a new players perspective. They’re simply doing what the game tells them is a good thing to do because it gives them points. It’s not their fault ANet is completely misleading them.

Strangely enough this is some rather low hanging fruit that could be fixed relatively easily. The fact that ANet straight up refuses to do it shows how little they understand the competitive side of their game. My feeling is that the Devs haven’t done anything competitive since they quit T-ball.

1. Stop using Match Making as a fix-all for a compete lack of infrastructure
2. Protect the player experience and improve player retention. Give us hard filters in the form of brackets or tiers to keep new players and veterans from playing together. Barriers to entry are not always a bad thing.
3. Fix the scoring and rewards so that they actually promote playing the game correctly, and then reward players for doing so with actual PvP rewards and not just PvE garbage.

That’s only half of it actually. Since their stealthed Steal skill has no CD they can spam the kitten out of it and remain stealthed until it actually does connect. How ’bout them apples?

LOL this is fairly true actually, though I think it mostly has to do with the ability to open the engagement from a strong position. Just like White gets the first move in Chess and Black has to play defense until they can capitalize on a mistake and change the tempo and thus taking control of the initiative in the fight, other classes ostensibly have to be able to deal with a Thief’s opening thrust and eventually counter if they want to be viable in PvP. The Thief’s mobility (engage and disengage safely) and strong openers (Stealth – Backstab, LoS – Inf Strike) merely enable this role.

Obviously an army of Thieves won’t net you much, but in a team setting they certainly bring the initiative to their respective team. Hence the importance on the Thief vs Thief duel that takes place when there’s one on both teams in a match.

+1 Interesting topic

To be fair, both Solo and Team Q were primarily populated with Solo queuers.

This game has no teams . And no reason to make one.

Lopez.7369:

It really doesn’t make sense. They’re actually trying to reinvent the wheel.

That’s been my understanding of it as well.

ArrDee.2573:

I think a fair change would be to keep the initial roots unblockable but make subsequent root entangles blockable! I also think the roots have too much health and it should be lowered slightly!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I can agree with that, too.

You have to wonder at the strength of a skill when it’s used in multiple builds including non-condition centric builds – I see both power and condi builds using it. It’s Unblockable status is what needs to go in my opinion. That little aspect of it is what makes it mindlessly easy to use as it will generally always land without negative consequence.

KarinaCO.6948:

hackks.3687:

No one said DS was an invuln. The statement was that healing while in DS where the second health pool can shield the primary health pool is akin to the same functionality as healing while Invuln because there is no way to counter the primary health pool regenerating while the LF health pool is active.

And since I’m here, let’s clarify some of the mechanics: Immunity is not the same as an Invulnerable. Immunity only cancels the effects of a single skill effect i.e. Conditions, Crowd Control, Direct Damage. Invulnerability makes the players Invulnerable to all skill effects/mechanics not applied prior to the skill activation.

Exactly, my point was that people can still receive heals from allies while invulnerable. You brought up that healing while invulnerable got removed for Engi & Ele however the mechanic OP is addressing still exists for other classes.

I see what you’re saying but like you mentioned, DS is far more active a resource than a 45-60 sec CD Invuln utility, no? Between the effective use of having a whole second HP pool, the short CD on activating DS, the ability to sustain LF while in DS on top of the sheer massive scale of the HP pool seems to make the two somewhat incomparable IMO as those are not attributes that extend to getting some team heals while Invuln.

No one said DS was an invuln. The statement was that healing while in DS where the second health pool can shield the primary health pool is akin to the same functionality as healing while Invuln because there is no way to counter the primary health pool regenerating while the LF health pool is active.

And since I’m here, let’s clarify some of the mechanics: Immunity is not the same as an Invulnerable. Immunity only cancels the effects of a single skill effect i.e. Conditions, Crowd Control, Direct Damage. Invulnerability makes the players Invulnerable to all skill effects/mechanics not applied prior to the skill activation.

The better questions is why are Man U being matched against 13 year olds?

I think that’s an outstanding analogy for everything that’s wrong with GW2 PvP queueing and matchmaking, because in effect Man U and 13 year olds are not only being put in the same league together but being placed in the same match against each other.

When ANet figure this out then match outcomes and MMR might start actually having some modicum of credibility.

Something tells me you spend a lot of time in poor positions that get you into trouble where you need things like pulsing stacks of stability granted on everything to keep you alive. In large part you’re asking for things that other classes don’t get – i.e. ways to circumvent their designed weaknesses. Maybe spend less time trying to drive your Square Necro through round holes and just take it for what it is. Play it to it’s strengths and avoid exposing it’s weaknesses. GL

Sagat.3285:

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Are you one of those people that believe zerk stance and endure pain shouldn’t let you cap point? Invulnerable negates all damage,DS has a limit of how much juice the meat can give before you break the fragile bones and is a class mechanic/resource it’s different from Distortion or Mist Form. Using those skills doesn’t prevent any already applied healing or healing traits to work, true invulnerabilty doesn’t get it but stuff like stealth,stances,blocks does. Do I also need to mention you can CC DS??

At least try to make sense. If the devs are thinking like you it’s just going to go downhill faster.

No, I’m one of those people who understands that Zerker stance and Endure Pain aren’t invulnerabilities…

DS being a skill mechanic instead of a single long cool-down skill is what makes it so precarious in regards to balancing because it can be brought into play far more often. Using Last Gasp before entering DS to take focus fire for instance can result in a net gain in Life Force. That could be followed up by Spec Armor to repeat it. Using either in Conjuction with Warhorn 4, etc. And if teammates (who we can all acknowledge have greater access to healing output) are healing a Necro behind DS while using these skills, CCing the Necro ceases to matter and you potentially end up with the most resilient punching in the history of the game, which according to you is not what you want, which is why I find it curious that you think this is the solution to your Necro problems.

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

LOL It got sidelined when you started trying to shout down anyone who didn’t agree with you way back on the first page – which was basically all of them.

this is funny stuff

Thief is not easy to play well, just easy for bads to hate on after getting rekt by one. I would certainly recommend learning to play one though as it is the best way to learn to fight one and they can be a lot of fun to play.

Turret engi is strong in 1v1s but you won’t learn the game playing it since it plays itself and you can’t do much beyond stand on a single point.

For just learning the game I would recommend Warrior Guardian or Ranger. All of which have simple but effective builds without too much depth so you can focus on learning the mechanics of the game as well as the class.

If you want to be successful in PvP you’l likely want to spend a little time playing each of the classes because PvP is as much about (possibly more) your knowledge of your opponent as it is about being able to play your class.

There are no cheap stomp tactics. You either know how to manage the downstate, or you don’t. If you can’t avoid getting into a downed fight with a warrior or ranger then you shouldn’t be off 1v1ing by yourself.

SobeSoul.6910:

hackks.3687:

SobeSoul.6910:

hackks.3687:

Saturn.6591:

SobeSoul.6910:

Not telling you don’t play condi mesmer btw. Just letting you know why it isn’t considered ‘optimal’.

Well, thanks.

^^

hackks.3687:

10.) Never let your opponents escape nearly-dead

Uhm, following scenario: You fight 1vs1 to cap a point. Your opponent is nearly dead, but manages to start running away (GS-Warrior, Ele with Mistform or whatever)… you can try to chase and kill, or actually cap the point. What will you chose to do?

Against a high mobility and high sustain class I would take the point, but you could argue that those two classes aren’t truly close to death in a 1v1 due to their ability to escape and regen health. That’s exactly what their build is designed for.

The point I was trying to make is to not let your opponent “reset and try again” while you try to cap the point. If you have an opportunity to finish a fight, you should take it – you’ll get the point as well anyways.

As well, if you’re 1v1ing you should be decapping the point at the very least during the 1v1 otherwise you’re wasting time, and as long as it’s decapped and within your capability to do so, you should take your opponent off the map. That way he can’t +1 another fight, or come back and kill you while your short on CDs.

Material advantage (teammates) in GW2 is the most effective way to win fights, which win you points, which win you matches.

It depends on what’s going on with the map.

Lets say you are at far. The team fight is going on in middle. One of your allies has been erased from the map. You shouldn’t chase then. It’s not uncommon for someone to have started to rotate to their home in those scenarios.

I would argue that in that case you most certainly should chase, since your team is already down a player and that opponent rotating away is about to add +1 more to that fight which will likely result in a team wipe that gets snowballed back to their home – killing you – and likely back to your home point as well. Net result is a 3 cap against you and puts your team in a situation where they have to win the next engagement just to get out the hole you just dug.

The smart move is to take the decap at far as a win, and move back to mid keeping your foe in combat and using CDs so that he’s likely an easy kill when he gets to the team fight at mid and you can rebalance the numbers of the engagement.

Like I said, material advantages are the easiest and more effective way to win a fight. Staying to cap gives your opponents that material advantage on the other two points in which case capping a single point nets your team virtually nothing. It’s just a poor exchange that costs your team a wipe. Not to mention the other team is likely headed straight towards you at their home and will outnumber you easily as well, so you won’t retain the point anyways.

That is a prime example of how people misprioritize far point engagements.

It still is dependent on certain variables. You have to read the map or at least be aware of what’s going on with your team since you’re not on voice comms if solo queueing.

1) Do you have CDs to chase and perhaps take a 1v2?
2) What does your team’s hp pool look like on your bar?

Not saying it’s always incorrect to chase, rather sometimes it’s better to stay put and let your CDs come back instead of Rambo’ing into a bad situation.

And I think you have a slight misconception about taking far point. I have won a large number of games by occupying multiple opponents on their home for a length of time where my team can overrun other parts of the map. Some builds don’t allow me to do that. I certainly wouldn’t try it on my thief since I will die outnumbered a percentage of the time where that sort of stunt isn’t worth it.

1.) It’s more about whether your team is in a position to make use of the material advantage your trying create for them on the other points while you 1v2.

2.) If you’re team got destroyed while you were elsewhere then there’s bigger problems in play and it’s likely you shouldn’t have been 1v1ing at far point in the first place.

And to be fair you could change the criteria endlessly and come up with different decisions. Regardless, creating material advantage is key in almost all situations.

SobeSoul.6910:

hackks.3687:

Saturn.6591:

SobeSoul.6910:

Not telling you don’t play condi mesmer btw. Just letting you know why it isn’t considered ‘optimal’.

Well, thanks.

^^

hackks.3687:

10.) Never let your opponents escape nearly-dead

Uhm, following scenario: You fight 1vs1 to cap a point. Your opponent is nearly dead, but manages to start running away (GS-Warrior, Ele with Mistform or whatever)… you can try to chase and kill, or actually cap the point. What will you chose to do?

Against a high mobility and high sustain class I would take the point, but you could argue that those two classes aren’t truly close to death in a 1v1 due to their ability to escape and regen health. That’s exactly what their build is designed for.

The point I was trying to make is to not let your opponent “reset and try again” while you try to cap the point. If you have an opportunity to finish a fight, you should take it – you’ll get the point as well anyways.

As well, if you’re 1v1ing you should be decapping the point at the very least during the 1v1 otherwise you’re wasting time, and as long as it’s decapped and within your capability to do so, you should take your opponent off the map. That way he can’t +1 another fight, or come back and kill you while your short on CDs.

Material advantage (teammates) in GW2 is the most effective way to win fights, which win you points, which win you matches.

It depends on what’s going on with the map.

Lets say you are at far. The team fight is going on in middle. One of your allies has been erased from the map. You shouldn’t chase then. It’s not uncommon for someone to have started to rotate to their home in those scenarios.

I would argue that in that case you most certainly should chase, since your team is already down a player and that opponent rotating away is about to add +1 more to that fight which will likely result in a team wipe that gets snowballed back to their home – killing you – and likely back to your home point as well. Net result is a 3 cap against you and puts your team in a situation where they have to win the next engagement just to get out the hole you just dug.

The smart move is to take the decap at far as a win, and move back to mid keeping your foe in combat and using CDs so that he’s likely an easy kill when he gets to the team fight at mid and you can rebalance the numbers of the engagement.

Like I said, material advantages are the easiest and more effective way to win a fight. Staying to cap gives your opponents that material advantage on the other two points in which case capping a single point nets your team virtually nothing. It’s just a poor exchange that costs your team a wipe. Not to mention the other team is likely headed straight towards you at their home and will outnumber you easily as well, so you won’t retain the point anyways.

That is a prime example of how people misprioritize far point engagements.

Saturn.6591:

SobeSoul.6910:

Not telling you don’t play condi mesmer btw. Just letting you know why it isn’t considered ‘optimal’.

Well, thanks.

^^

hackks.3687:

10.) Never let your opponents escape nearly-dead

Uhm, following scenario: You fight 1vs1 to cap a point. Your opponent is nearly dead, but manages to start running away (GS-Warrior, Ele with Mistform or whatever)… you can try to chase and kill, or actually cap the point. What will you chose to do?

Against a high mobility and high sustain class I would take the point, but you could argue that those two classes aren’t truly close to death in a 1v1 due to their ability to escape and regen health. That’s exactly what their build is designed for.

The point I was trying to make is to not let your opponent “reset and try again” while you try to cap the point. If you have an opportunity to finish a fight, you should take it – you’ll get the point as well anyways.

As well, if you’re 1v1ing you should be decapping the point at the very least during the 1v1 otherwise you’re wasting time, and as long as it’s decapped and within your capability to do so, you should take your opponent off the map. That way he can’t +1 another fight, or come back and kill you while your short on CDs.

Material advantage (teammates) in GW2 is the most effective way to win fights, which win you points, which win you matches.

If you want to win at PvP:

1.) Never pick a fair fight
2.) Never try to match an opponent strength for strength
3.) Never expect your teammates to read your mind
4.) Never take unnecessary risks
5.) Never sacrifice a teammate unless it means killing 2 opponents
6.) Never forget your playing Conquest and not Deathmatch
7.) Never give your opponents a free run at your capture point
8.) Never have more than one person on the point
9.) Never limit your actions to standing on a point
10.) Never let your opponents escape nearly-dead
11.) Never play outside your role
12.) Never rotate away from fights that leave your teammates in any position of the previously stated
13.) Never bring your notions of “honor” into a fight
14.) Never play your opponent’s game, always play your own
15.) Never assume the game is over until it’s actually over

I could go on, but that seems like a good start

there aren’t enough players to make MMR anything more than a formality.

IMO ANET leaves too much in PvP to be discovered rather than explained – just look at the instruction window when you load into the match, it doesn’t even tell you how many points you get for holding a point or scoring a kill. It doesn’t describe how long it takes to cap or decap a point. It doesn’t even tell you how many points you get for secondary objectives. I get that MMO’s are about discovery but PvP shouldn’t be. Explain the rules of your game clearly. Simple as that.

There’s also no clear definition of who’s where in the hierarchy of PvP because… well, there isn’t one. So there’s no way to tell who’s credible and who isn’t. There are differing views all the time but how can you tell who’s worth listening to when it’s basically a blind taste test.

The whole PvP section of the game is mired in a lack of clarity. For example, personal scores still exist even though they have no bearing on anything anymore. And even then you have to play selflessly and disregard your personal score to play the game at what’s considered a high level. Try explaining that to new players. As well, Ranks still exist even though they’ve basically been handed out for free and now contribute to the lack of distinction between experienced players and “newbies”. Your leader board rank and MMR rank share very little, and now with handicapping the matches to make up for poor matchmaking we don’t even know whether we won or lost or how much in either direction or even how many leaderboard points we just earned/lost.

How anyone but the most masochistic is ever supposed to learn this game is beyond me.

We were 3 capped, it was 200 to 20 and our team was full wiping at far without even contesting it for the second time in a row thanks to a certain terrible mesmer who does that every match and had done so my previous two matches to the same effect.

So yeah, I called GG in map chat. But you guys raged at me. Not the other way around. I may have had some not-so-nice things to say about our mesmer, but he earned them.

And there is an AFK report option: report for botting. If you actually knew something about PvP, you’d probably know that…

Just saw this as well in a Temple match. First engagement, 2v3, my teammate and I down all 3, stomp the first one, the other 2 instantly rally. Not cool.

kdaddy.5431:

I think its fine, i find most people rush home as well. I dont know the people your playing against but i find spreading out pug players is better. 1 home 2mid 2far. This forces a good premade to make a decision. If your a good player you should win your 1 vs 1 or 2vs 2. Obviously if you play with players who arent as good it doesnt matter how you spread them at start your not gonna win cause there not as good.

I had a coach once tell a kid on the team he shot too much and he needed to run the plays. The kid asked why, coach said cause your a role player. Most people dont know it in gw2 but they are also role players and dont know it.

that’s how you get stuck in small fights and not rotating. if you fail to win a single fight, you’ll be 3 capped and blown out in short order. I see this happen so often and I’m appalled that someone is recommending it here.

the best openers create advantageous match ups through the use of numbers to score quick kills and tilt the numbers advantage in their favor as early as possible. Seeking out even numbered fights doesn’t do that.

Justin ODell.9517:

hackks.3687:

The problem with matchmaking seems to be fundamental – the new player rating is simply too high. There’s no reason a player with thousands of matches played should be able to share an MMR with a player playing their very first match.

Moving the starting rating only moves the center. Also, starting players are matched by their rating – their deviation, and we prefer to make matches the same way, so I don’t believe that is much of an issue. This doesn’t mean we couldn’t try to find a better placement for players that have PvP experience but don’t yet have any games played under a rating type.

hackks.3687:

The worst part is this is just one of a variety of examples that prove that the MMR system is not OK. It is logically and fundamentally flawed. Whether it be by adding hard filters, or tiers, or adding barriers to entry something needs to be done to segregate players based on experience because the game is not played the same at every level. And that is what creates the negative experiences that hamper PvP’s growth.

I think you are conflating MMR and matchmaking, they are not the same. Matchmaking rating (MMR) is only one metric that is part (althought a core part) of matchmaking algorithm. There are lots of variables that can influence matchmaking to create a bad match. E.g. duplicate professions, party size, queue population, how long you are in the queue, how long others are in the queue, etc..

I appreciate you trying to explain it to me but I’ll be honest this isn’t really my bag. And more importantly to me, you seem to be missing my point entirely: You can’t put experienced players in the same match as your veteran players. It ruins the experience for both parties. I don’t want to play against players who are just learning their skills for the first time. And I’m fairly certain he didn’t want to get destroyed in mere seconds by me as his first taste of PvP. And I’m definitely sure his teammates didn’t appreciate him doing so at the expense of their W/L ratio in a ranked arena.

The player experience at all levels is suffering. This is not a new issue but it’s become far more stark very recently.

Food for thought: Perhaps the learning curve of your game doesn’t match the scale of your ratings system? Perhaps consider redefining your scale in order to create values that can’t be reached by either extreme of the player or party size spectrums?

The problem with matchmaking seems to be fundamental – the new player rating is simply too high. There’s no reason a player with thousands of matches played should be able to share an MMR with a player playing their very first match.

For instance: in this match I was just in the thief on the opposing team ran to my close point where I was capping at the start of the match, without stealthing he walked onto the point with me, and basically started learning what the buttons do right in front of me. He hit each one in turn without moving their character and only hit me when Heartseeker took him directly to me. He did this repeatedly until the match ended in a blow out.

For added flavor I had 3 Warriors on my team thanks to the PvP Daily.

The worst part is this is just one of a variety of examples that prove that the MMR system is not OK. It is logically and fundamentally flawed. Whether it be by adding hard filters, or tiers, or adding barriers to entry something needs to be done to segregate players based on experience because the game is not played the same at every level. And that is what creates the negative experiences that hamper PvP’s growth.

Lordrosicky.5813:

hackks.3687:

Justification is: they don’t have weapon swapping, must use utility slots for added weapon skills which shorts them on potential defensive skills, and as a mid-range skirmisher Engi doesn’t have the luxury of hanging back at 1200 range and “pewpewing” with full efficacy. Typically an Engi has one utility slot it can afford for a stun break, which is what makes Tool Kit (not just Gear Shield) so desirable as a kit option.

There are actually a lot of skills that bypass Block

What is the justification behind random spamming nades on any corpses and making ressing impossible even when having massive healing, blocks, vigor, good health pool, kittenload of armour, massive condi damage and massive power damage?

I think you are over-estimating the profession. Specially coming from a Necro that kills Engi’s like kids kill flies…

Justification is: they don’t have weapon swapping, must use utility slots for added weapon skills which shorts them on potential defensive skills, and as a mid-range skirmisher Engi doesn’t have the luxury of hanging back at 1200 range and “pewpewing” with full efficacy. Typically an Engi has one utility slot it can afford for a stun break, which is what makes Tool Kit (not just Gear Shield) so desirable as a kit option.

There are actually a lot of skills that bypass Block

Are we really trying to promote piling on a point? I would argue that promotes poor play as well. Worse play, in fact. Most pugs wipe because everyone is on point standing in the aoe storm. I would argue giving points for standing on the point would be worse than the overcompensating for secondary objectives.

Why it’s bad and what you’ll subvert by rewarding standing on a point:
• only one person from your team should be standing on the point at a time
• no one needs to be standing on the point unless an opponent stands on the point
• defending a point isn’t limited to standing in the circle

Half of side point skirmishing revolves around jumping on and off the point to bait positioning out of your opponent. I’m afraid rewarding players for simply standing on point would inhibit them from ever learning this depth of play.

Mrbig.8019:

They’re passive.

Unpredictable.

Unbalanced.

Pls explain.

Fire and Air sigils say hi

Evan Lesh.3295:

Having a personal score system is a good way to indicate whether a player is playing the game mode well.

the current scoring system would beg to differ with this statement

and I don’t see how individual scores would be a better proof of success/failure than the statistics pertinent to that player’s role. ask any new player and I bet they couldn’t tell you anything about roles beyond bunker/roamer or list criteria and function for specific builds within specific roles and why they’re valuable to a team.

if you have to have individual rewards why not base them off statistics and award them at the end of the match?

I honestly don’t understand why you guys are so cagey about giving out in-game statistics and information. It just makes the whole system cryptic and difficult to understand. Which I would wager has a lot to do with why new players have a hard time learning your game.

Thinking in terms of “individual rewards” for specific actions is the major flaw. The only reward that matters is the Win. When you start introducing individual rewards you create contradictory objectives for player vs team, which is one of the major problems we see now and why people do stupid things like hunt down both mobs on Forest before even glancing at a capture point.

Just give us match statistics that we can all see