Guild Wars 2

Justin ODell.9517:

Try to look at it from the eyes of a beginner guys.

The NPCs award points, and give you a buff. Who wouldn’t want that?

It takes a higher level of understanding of the both the map and conquest mechanics to get that securing mid is important.

How would you guys suggest we go about teaching this to players?

Start by not giving 25 individual pts for something that has very little benefit to the team’s efforts. It’s common to see players abandon the capture objectives in order to push for both mobs at any point in the match simply because it gives them 25 pts and pushes them up the scoreboard – which leads then leads to finger pointing.

Personal scores in general should be removed, if only because of how misleading they are. If nothing else, secondary objectives should not provide more points than the primary objectives. Reduce from 25 points to 10 points. Or even better, 0 points – just grant the team points and stat buff. At least then the reward is comparable to it’s actual strategic value.

I’d like to see personal scores removed from the scoreboards. It’s misleading and far from an accurate assessment of contribution to the teams efforts. In fact you could argue it actually promotes poor play within the game itself, which is just unforgivable on ANET’s part. If you can’t make it clear to the players how to play your game, I’m not sure you should be making games in the first place… for instance, why do players need to receive 25pts for killing a mob that is only marginally beneficial to your team’s efforts at best, yet pushes that player who abandoned the capture objectives for the 50 personal pts of killing both mobs to the top of his teams scoreboard? How is that comparable reward to it’s actual contribution to the matches outcome? Hint: it’s not.

That being said, I’d like to see items on the scoreboard such as:

- Time held for blue/neutral/red for each capture point
- Team kills/deaths for blue/red at each capture point
- Individual stats: kills/deaths, healing (excluding self)/damage dealt (direct/condition), distance travelled, assaulted/captured/defended
- Secondary objective statistics

And let us see this for all players in the match so we can see who is functioning at what level in specific roles for both our team and the opposition. AND let us keep reviewing the information after the match has ended.

The biggest issue though is the personal score. It has little to no relevance and is holding newer players back. It needs to go.

If you have a perpetual far point pusher in your pug then just embrace it and work it into your team strat. Taking the initiative is not a bad thing unless you do it haphazardly – like letting him go by himself and praying he wins the match up. You’re not going to get very far with part of your team playing their own strat while the rest of you play another. The surest way to win is the path of least resistance.

Also, the 1-3-1 split requires both ’1’s to rotate accordingly. When far pusher is at far, backpoint has to be prepared to push to mid to balance the numbers. Going AFK on backpoint in that situation is just as bad as pushing into a bad match up at far point.

It doesn’t have to be a decent Terrormancer. Just hitting the buttons is enough.

Pushing far has some distinct upsides. In principle, and at it’s simplest, pushing far point is about punishing your opponents for overcommitting their resources (players) to other areas of the map. So with that in mind, it’s a good time to push far when:

• it’s the start of the match and your composition favors your team against their presumed back point bunker, or you’re looking to avoid a full team fight against their mid bunker

• the mid fight has become prolonged and your opponents have pushed their home bunker to mid to compensate for a lost teammate due to kill or to bring additional dps in an effort to score a kill

• the opposing team has pushed 3 or 4 to your home point without pressuring mid. in this case you’re simply “flipping the map” and repositioning your team accordingly, which essentially puts your opponents back at square 1

• any time the opposition has left the point undefended and your team can spare a man to go decap it or take it without causing a team fight to be lost

If nothing else, just harassing far point can be a good way to keep your opponent honest and prevent them from pushing too aggressively to other areas of the map. Even in a defensive posture the best defenses still include some offense – think of it like a boxer’s jab.

Where the far push generally goes wrong is when it becomes steady or static. GW2 PvP offers and requires a lot of tactical flexibility. As with everything, when something becomes overly used it then becomes familiar and thusly becomes easily countered. The trick is take it when it’s available and not sell out so whole-heartedly that your team cripples itself by continuing with a tactic the enemy has figured out how to deal with.

why should they give a kitten about it?

Nothing good has come from it. In fact it’s been quite the opposite.

IMO they should just delete it.

working as intended

the self-knockback is treated as it’s own skill effect and as such can be negated via stability, aegis, blind (when the stars align), etc.

1 – APs don’t mean anything in PvP.

2 – The Thief was right, you made a very noob mistake.

3 – It’s take a special kind of ignorance and hubris to come here and call someone out for calling you out just because you didn’t like it, even though he was right and you were wrong and even more in the wrong for coming here and making a post about it.

cheese.4739:

citizankane.5723:

It’s not an exploit. It’s just a way to bypass poor design. If your one of the sheeple that believe Anet understands how to balance their own game, then sure I could see how you would label it as an exploit.

Whether or not the design is poor isn’t relevant – that this is a way to “bypass” the design is what makes it an exploit.

how is it “bypassing” anything? you’re assuming that this isn’t by design that Necro’s can kill their own minions for Life Force after having it reset to zero prior to the match starting.

why else give players 10s prior to the gates opening and the match starting? hint: because it gives players the chance to buff up

It is a huge buff, but a necessary one IMO. Downed state is a huge aspect of PvP that Necros have had almost no effectiveness in since launch. Glitching the DS stomp/rez was only really useful when traiting for Stability which is far too limited for a mechanic that already locks you out of all but 5 skills. Definitely looking forward to this change.

It would be a cool idea if ANet didn’t balance their game around hard counters in a true rock/paper/scissors fashion. There’s already so much emphasis being placed on builds and their corresponding match ups that most of coordinated team play revolves around getting the right personnel into the right match ups simply due to the severity at which builds can counter one another and it’s effect on fight outcomes.

It’s ironic though that ANet’s slow balancing cycles and desire for a player propagated meta actually warrant build templates and more opportunities to change said builds, yet their balance philosophy works against that notion entirely by placing so much emphasis on the builds and their ability to hard counter one another that it has to be restricted just to keep matches going.

not sure how much improvement we can expect on this front as long as ANet’s balancing philosophy and policy are on separate pages from different books.

how about adding a “6th man” to team rosters for dealing with DC’s? The network stability seems to crop up in every tournament and since there’s no pause function (I don’t like the idea of having one anyways) how about just having a 6th man on the roster waiting in the wings as a spectator and if someone DC’s he simply joins the side and rotates in. That way matches don’t get decided by the network stability.

just a thought.

A thief probably has the least confusing role in PvP. He only has 3 real priorities in the match:

1.) To pressure and kill the opposing team’s Thief/dps threats
2.) To rotate into even numbered fights to offset the stalemate in your teams favor
3.) To decap the enemies unprotected points

In that order.

Doing so effectively requires understanding your team’s strengths and weaknesses, assessing and prioritizing threats on the opponent’s team, the ability to view the map as well as count to five.

This applies to every map.

Good luck!

Varonth.5830:

hackks.3687:

lilz shorty.1879:

hackks.3687:

I will likely never own a Lamborghini or Ferrari in my lifetime. It doesn’t mean I’ll stop working hard at my job, or write the CEOs of each company to complain about that fact…

Your comparison is terrible. Pvp is a competition in order achieve something whether that be prestige, items, etc…for being good at it.. But there is nothin to work for unless you are the top, and this is only when tournies are around, which is so stupid. This is an MMO and not the NBA playoffs. You rely on people to play your game as an MMO developer, so you need to give them reason to. They don’t have a community therefore they need to work on getting one by also catering, but I’m a competitive way, to casual, semi competitive, and hardcore.

The analogy was in reference to the OP, where they essentially asked that the most exclusive reward PvP is going to offer to be made available simply for showing up – which is, as I see it, exactly why this game doesn’t have a lot of competitive play at the moment. None of the rewards actually require winning or playing well.

my apologies for not making that more clear

Where did I write this? Please quote where I wrote that you should just show up to obtain that armor.

Varonth.5830:

Or are there plans to actually make really big open tournaments. And with big I mean in the 100k+ participants, and everyone gets the armor regardless of whether they came far or not.

lilz shorty.1879:

hackks.3687:

I will likely never own a Lamborghini or Ferrari in my lifetime. It doesn’t mean I’ll stop working hard at my job, or write the CEOs of each company to complain about that fact…

Your comparison is terrible. Pvp is a competition in order achieve something whether that be prestige, items, etc…for being good at it.. But there is nothin to work for unless you are the top, and this is only when tournies are around, which is so stupid. This is an MMO and not the NBA playoffs. You rely on people to play your game as an MMO developer, so you need to give them reason to. They don’t have a community therefore they need to work on getting one by also catering, but I’m a competitive way, to casual, semi competitive, and hardcore.

The analogy was in reference to the OP, where they essentially asked that the most exclusive reward PvP is going to offer to be made available simply for showing up – which is, as I see it, exactly why this game doesn’t have a lot of competitive play at the moment. None of the rewards actually require winning or playing well.

my apologies for not making that more clear

I understand what you’re saying but the reality remains that you have to have exclusive and major prizes to attract players who don’t shy away from competition. Otherwise it will remain as you said as just being comprised of you guys, and Megalodong, and Outplayed, etc. i.e the same old faces

I don’t mean to come off as confrontational or whatever. I’m just trying to support the growth of competition within PvP and I see these rewards as a necessity for that growth.

From what I understand of the concerns voiced so far, the issue is the lack of structured rewards below these top end, more exclusive rewards that foster competitive growth at the lower and middle levels. I would argue that there isn’t nearly enough infrastructure within PvP to allow players to have a clear view of their place in hierarchy with reasonable rewards that encourage improving their play and offer a roadmap to the top. These kind of rewards need to come at a cost other than time invested. Because without the midlevel rewards to reinforce this route to the top, it’s only natural that most people would look at the top end rewards as completely out of reach.

I will likely never own a Lamborghini or Ferrari in my lifetime. It doesn’t mean I’ll stop working hard at my job, or write the CEOs of each company to complain about that fact…

I don’t understand this assumed entitlement on the behalf of the community. Why is everyone supposed to be able to have equal access to everything with minimal investment? All that does is dilute the value and meaning of winning and ultimately is what destroys the sense of competition. And how can you foster a competitive community without those exclusive rewards (armor sets) and valuable prizes ($50K)?

The reality is not everything is meant to be easy and accessible to everyone. And when they are, they’re typically not worth working or competing for. At some point this community needs to decide what it wants: casual friendly, care-bear PvP where everybody wins (even when afking) or a competitive environment fostered by goals and rewards that are not within easy reach.

Fact: the more exclusive and valuable the prizes the more likely competitive players will be drawn to the game, making it less likely to be dominated by the same familiar faces.

My suggestion to ANet would be to not backdown on this. The mid-level rewards certainly need revamping, and they need to establish a distinct structure to the player hierarchy (ladders/season/in-game leader boards) within the game, but there has to be very big carrots sitting at the end of very long sticks in order to drive players to learn, practice, and compete for these prizes.

my 2c

the 6 ini cost on BP used to mean a lot more before the ini regen boost. it needed toning down since it hardly requires the ini management it once did.

d/p has only taken a backseat to s/d in team play because of the strength of the boon rip and inherent survivability in the current boon heavy, high sustain meta. Not because of any functional inferiority. it’s simply the better tool for the job at the moment.

I played a Spirit Watch last night and it occurred to me to check the map explanation at the start of the match to see if there was any way to glean any meaningful strategic information from it, and it’s turns out… you can’t lol! They don’t even tell you the values for capping the orb just that there’s a different response from capping it on a friendly point than an enemy one.

Why be so vague ANet??? Tell your players how to play the game! Why else have a window that pops up to provide map information? So you can confuse the players more? I’d say there’s room for improvement here.

PvP has been plagued by a lack of vision from the very beginning. Even at launch it was clear that ANet weren’t sure what to do with PvP as they only had Hotjoins and Free Tournaments – which for those of you who weren’t around at that time were an 8 team tournament with 3 rounds. After a month or so they added their “end game” PvP by introducing the Paid Tournament which quickly fell on it’s face for a variety reasons. Since then it’s been a constant re-hashing of the content, culminating in the removal of virtually every aspect of PvP since launch and ultimately pushing towards this new “PvE friendly” version that has all but pushed out the competitive players.

What we have now is:

- inappropriate rewards – players are given “rewards” simply for showing up to the match. not for improving, or playing thoughtfully/skillfully.

- misleading score boards and vague map information – there’s literally no way to discern any kind of relevant strategy assign value to secondary objectives for each map based on the “rules” and info they provide at the start of the match. the scoreboard at the end of the match is even more misleading as it shows little to no relevant information to a players contribution to the team making it night impossible to understand where and how you should improve as a player.

- poor queuing structure – rank 80 veterans with thousands of matches played are playing with new players in their very first match resulting in both players experience being less than ideal or enjoyable.

- poor queuing structure – ANet’s captiulation to the vocal minority/s demand for a solo q was one of the biggest mistakes they’ve made in regards to PvP as it simply created a toxic breeding ground for bad play and bad attitudes that subvert the “team” oriented play that GW2 is built around. at the very least solo q should not be ranked and should not have corresponding leaderboards. ranked matches should belong to team play only.

- stagnant meta’s and slow balancing – ANet’s stance all along has been to allow the players to evolve the meta on their own seeking out counters and counter-counters through build/composition diversity, but they have never provided the tools to allow players to facilitate that. build templates have been requested since launch, and since launch we’ve been told “it’s in the pipeline”.

- lack of a PvP progression – the ranks are essentially worthless now, which is probably why the devs intended to delete them before the forum outcry convinced them not to. There’s nothing about PvP that says “I’m moving forward, I’m getting better, this is my goal and I can see how to get there”.

It’s a shame really because the combat is amazing and fun. Unfortunately it’s not enough to make a quality game.

Simple math should tell you that the orb is the fastest way to score points. Holding a single point (30pts/minute) and continually running the orb to it (25pts/cap on held capture point) will outscore a 2-cap (60pts/minute) so long as you secure two orb caps per minute (turns into 80pts/minute) which isn’t that hard, specially if the other team isn’t trying to stop you. You could even use the orb to cut into your opponents score by capping the orb at one of their held points and create a potentially greater disparity in point accumulation – 60pts/minute becomes 30/pts minute vs your 70pts/minute so long as the second orb cap is run to a held point of your own (15/pts for decapping enemy point means you’ve only given up 10pts to cut your opponents scoring in half).

The counter is to work the point caps while creating a “net” of sorts with your team to prevent orb runners from capping – and even capping the orb for yourself after killing the runner – but you have to be able to stop the runner, which can be difficult (if not impossible) against certain builds.

It’s definitely a different style of conquest map compared to the ones in team q but it kinda kills me how much solo q struggles with understanding how the map works – which is where it devolves into a massive skirm on top of the orb spawn.

Tip: unlike most of the other maps, mid point has little-to-no tactical value on Spirit Watch. It’s too receded and enclosed to offer a view to the rest of the map, and is furthest from spawn making it the hardest to support. Bunking it is a generally a waste of time. Typically a “bunkers” best role on the map is to run the orb (you’re extremely hard to kill before getting the orb to the point – stability is massively strong) or holding the cap point that orb is being run to in order to make sure maximum points are taken from each cap.

Matches have exciting endings when the teams are evenly matched, not because of a dps race on an NPC. On the Foefire map, the Guild Lord makes it seem like it’s a closer match because of the potential to narrow the point differential by 150 points. So, for example, even though the teams might be 200 points apart in score there’s potentially only a 50 point differential so long as the Lord remains in play.

If you want more exciting climaxes/finishes to the matches you need more competitive play out of players/teams, and the only way you get that is for ANet to actually incentivize skillful play and improving one’s game – something that currently doesn’t exist in the game. Until they do, you’re going to continue to see a mismatches and a handful of teams/players outright dominate the competition and leave you with boring matches to watch/play where you just “watch the points tick down”.

So what you really ought to be asking for is incentives and tools for players to learn and improve

the trick is to adjust depending on your team’s positioning and your opponent’s strategy. For instance:

- the opposing team is aggressively pushing for your point – obviously you don;‘t want to leave it undefended – if it’s a team fight you’re mid bunker should rotate back and you should push to mid or far to counter the push at your home and secure the second held point for your team
- one of your teammates is pushing far while the rest of your teammates push mid – you need to push up to mid to offset the numbers disadvantage your 3 teammates are facing there.
- your whole team pushes far and is winning the engagement – you should sit tight.
- your whole team pushes far and is now losing while your baby sitting an empty point in which case you should push to mid and try to at least decap – your teammates will respawn and be able to cover any would be assaulters at home

that’s sort of the basics but you really just need to pay attention to both teams, where they are on the map, and who’s winning which fights.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

This trait has gone from op vs. conditions to borderline useless.

Exactly.

This trait needs to be touched. It’s been outpaced by the rune/sigil changes from 4/15 and does nothing to address any of Engi’s condition defense issues.

The cost IMO is relevant to the need. Considering it’s partially papering over a designed weakness of the class, I’d say the cost is appropriate to the effect and the ICD.

And we already have single condition removal. Adding more doesn’t help with any of the issues I stated. Toolbelt Skills belong to the Tools tree anyways. It wouldn’t fit with the the theme of the trait line.

So it was brought up in the PvP forum but I feel like this is a more appropriate place for the suggestion and any subsequent discussion.

As we’re all aware, since the 4/15 patch Automated response was changed from 100% condition duration reduction at 25% health to 50% condition duration reduction at 33% health. Now I wasn’t much of a fan of the trait prior to the change and I’m even less of a fan of it in its new state. It neither addresses any of the Engi’s major concerns regarding conditions or provides consistency in the Engineer’s design. It’s been said many times, Engineers are" intentionally weak against conditions" and that needs to remain true to a degree. As well know though, Engineers are actually extremely weak to condition overload and even more so to Terror Necros.

So with that in mind, my suggestion is this:

• Automated Response: Consumer an Elixir C at 25% Health (45sec CD)

This would give Engineers some much needed aid to condition overload and Terror Necro fear chains while also retaining the designed weakness of the class as well as keeping with the theme of the trait line. Because it triggers at the same HP % threshold that the bulk of an Engineers defensive traits trigger (25%) it creates consistency in the class functionality allowing opponents to anticipate for counter-play regardless of the passivity of the trait proc.

love it. hate it. that’s my 2c

It’s actually a great idea IMO since often times you can trigger it to break an immob and then be immob’d again immediately after without actually moving anywhere and basically rendering the the skill worthless. There’s precedence for this as well since Ele’s Burning Speed was made to be an evade for similar reasoning.

/signed

I thought the obvious change would’ve been to change Automated Response to a “Consume Elixir C at 25% Health”. Voila! Engi has an answer to condition overload and some help against Terror Necros, while not completely shutting down condi builds or removing the designed weakness of the class.

maybe that’s just me though

To be honest, team speak doesn’t help most teams anyways. Being able to talk to one another isn’t some miracle cure for having kittenty awareness or a low tactical IQ. So many times I’ve been invited to a random team and told to get into TS only for everyone to either a.) sit there silently all match and not use it, or b.) have no idea what info to communicate anyways and they just use it to yell at each other.

To me it just sounds like a weak excuse from weak players and you don’t want to be in that kind of team anyways OP. Don’t let it dissuade you. If you got skills, people will notice and invite you. Team speak has kitten all to do with it.

gl

I think I know who you’re referring to and I’ve seen him numerous times. He has one tactic and that’s to bunker a side point – either home or far – which basically guarantees his team has one of the 2 required points it takes to win the match. No offense to him but he’s not some super duelist or anything, he just runs a build that typically requires an equivalent duelist or team coordination to deal with him in a timely manner, and you just don’t see a lot of coordination in solo q…. ever. That’s why “decap Engis” were considered viable in solo q a while back but total joke in team ques. For some reason getting your teammates to rotate to help you on a side point in solo q is akin to herding cats – it’s just not gonna happen. He’s using that to his advantage because his opponents have the tactical IQ/awareness of a spoon.

condi engi belongs in the team fights for burst, celestial/rifle engi can roam and decap more efficiently.

I don’t main a Thief but I like to play one semi-regularly. Sort of a cursory guide I’ve developed for myself from playing way too much PvP over the last couple years:

26006 SB + D/P – more of a search and destroy dps-assist roaming build. Hang on the fringes of fights using Short Bow to apply aoe pressure, as soon as a called target reaches the executioner threshold (50%) you start your burst combo. Stay out of aoe, help with stomps using Black Powder

20066 SB + S/D – focuses on less burst, but more sustained damage and mobility for getting from point to point and stretching opposing teams across the map. back cap, rotate to help teammates, offsetting player numbers in fights in your teams favor for easy skirmish victories.

Thief’s responsibility in the team:

1. First, foremost, and always – if there is a Thief in the opposing team your first job is to keep that Thief in check and counter pressure them when they pressure your teammates.

2. Remove DPS threats – just like it says. Take out any threat on the opposing team

3. Be the +1: look for teammates on the map in even numbered fights and rotate to help them and create quick numbers advantages for easy skirmish wins.

4. Back cap – at the earliest point you can in the match check out who is guarding far point for your opponents and make a mental note of it. If you see them anywhere else on the map then make a point to at least decap their point if you can. This relieves pressure elsewhere on the map by forcing your opponents to dedicate players to watching their home rather than push up the map.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

vincecontix.1264:

In a tpvp comp what reason is there to bring an engi over a ele?

you take the Engi if you need more side-point pressure instead of team-fight sustain

Running around one-shotting each other isn’t exactly fun and rewarding game play. Losing because you got “out-sustained” isn’t necessarily compelling game play either but at least it required both players to play out the fight. Not to mention that Thief and Mesmer are the only classes that get to play High Risk/High Reward as no other class shares their inherent defensive capabilities and mobility in combination with burst potential – which was basically the driving force for everyone else to turn to bunker/condi/sustain builds in the first place. And in such a setting Shatter Mesmer and D/P THief are not High Risk builds – they are the Apex predators, so it’s just high reward. We’ve been there and done that and it was only fun for the Thieves and Mesmers.

Other than the abundance of AI builds in Solo Q I rather like where this meta is. I just wish people would realize it’s not about spamming skills ftw anymore. You actually have to pay attention to your opponent, their defensive CDs, their Boons, and both team’s positioning on the map.

I just don’t see High Risk/High Reward being the ideal in this game. We’ve been there, and they’ve nerfed that. Let’s move on.

The issues with turrets in sPvP are the same as the rest of AI builds in PvP – their strengths largely stem from messing with the game’s mechanics. Namely the AOE Target cap and shoddy targeting system. The inherent defense that comes from those two aspects of the build is largely what is carrying people and exacerbated with each additional player using a similar AI build on the same point.

For the record though, Rocket Turret does a kittened amount of damage with zero investment, let alone when traited. I grab that turret just for the lolz sometimes.

You might think you’re taking the high road by ignoring your teammate’s chat, but really your just being an inconsiderate kittenhead. Rated matches are competitive and competitive play requires communication. By not communicating, you’re the one being that guy and frustrating your teammates. Not the other way around, even though it might suit your assumed “moral high-ground”.

SPESHAL.9106:

Unfortunately, they put newbies in matches with experienced people, which makes it a miserable experience for both.

This is biggest issue with PvP IMO for all the obvious reasons

What’s on your hit list OE?

AOE doesn’t work because as far as the game is concerned there’s essentially 2+ teams worth of players standing on that point and all but 2 of them are immune to conditions, and no matter how much aoe you have you can only hit 5 at a time with each attack, and you don’t get decide which.

That’s why I say it’s not worth it to ever fight 2 turret Engi’s on the same point. The turrets can’t leave, and it’s not worth the time it takes to remove them.

By regrouping and pushing both points simultaneously but with the correct personnel so as to create an advantageous matchup at either objective. The ultimate goal being to split the enemy team and thereby remove or diminish their key strength that caused your team to lose the initial fight.

Hopefully you’ve discovered some way to create that advantageous engagement at either of the held capture points based on the previous engagement you lost. Either by personnel distribution or map strategy/position.

Against a disciplined team you typically can’t just pick a singular point and look to overload it as they’ll be positioned to counter, and you’ll likely just be moving the same team fight you just lost to a different point which will likely end in the same result, or they’ll simply rotate to your undefended or lightly-defended point and you’re back to square one.

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

ThunderCat.8395:

http://i.imgur.com/lQJdPIy.jpg

You definately need a staff ele here…and some nerfs, like the second turrent of the same type you put in let’s say 800 range is gonna replace the other one that just explodes…so multiple turretidiots can’t stack their crap all over the place. Fixed the 10 turrets on same point problem..

if you just walk away from that point, those Engis have basically kitten themselves and their team for the next 45-60 sec. Even if those Engi’s pursued they’d have left all their dps and utility behind. They basically gave you a 5v3 everywhere else on the map. Don’t ever stay to fight 2 turret engi’s (or 2 full AI builds of any type) on a single point. At least not until ANet wakes up and removes the AOE 5 target limit and reimplements the Tab Targeting QoL change they took back so quickly.

Rentapest.6503:

…. repeat the cycle over until your HP is gone from the rifle/rocket turrets.

you want to make a point of killing the Rocket and Rifle turrets early in the fight if you’re going to take on a settled in turret Engi. their sustained dps drops considerably without them.

more often than not though your best bet is to just avoid them and focus on the other two points where your team can enjoy a 5v4 numbers advantage. Turret Engi is weak until they’re settled into an objective. Once settled, it’s usually not worth the time/energy to push them off unless you’re a Hambow Warrior. If you’re team can win elsewhere on the map though, the Engi will have no choice but to abandon the point and move elsewhere which puts him in a weak position until he resettles and opens his point for decap.

you don’t have to kill everything in pvp. outmaneuvering is equally effective.

brannigan.9831:

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

nastyjman.8207:

When watching some tournament matches, I hear the term “rotate” or “rotation” from the shoutcasters.

I assume that “rotate” would mean floating between nodes. For instance, far-point assaulter rotating between mid and far.

That and also covering points and come over/backup teamates…leaving guard afking at mid for example is a well known mistake, good teams will always bring bunker guard in teamfight cause it gives awesome support and an AH shout guardian alone has really no point…long story short rotations are those player’s movements aimed on always being superior (For number or hardcounters) in teamfights, basic stuff it’s like going with 2 wars 1 guard thief and something else on 2 points…then leaving wars on 2 points and roaming with guard and a dps/cond while thief can always backup if things go wrong or just decap far while others are fighting if they leave it and teamfight is going well…rotating good is probably the hardest thing in tpvp and it makes the difference between good teams and top teams and to get it right you should practice with always same ppl over and over again (On ts obviously) and get used to it, that’s why it’s the hardest part for a team.

Not sure I agree much with pulling your guardian off the middle point except under very special circumstances. Most of the time you can only hold 2 points. I don’t really know about at high levels of play but for your average players not on voicecom just going to whatever point you don’t own once you have two points is not smart. I’m a believer in holding home and middle and hedgeing. Sure if you have a decapper send him to far to cause trouble.

Pardon me for chiming in but I love talking strategy and tactics. Re: bunkers and holding points…

One of the most significant differences I’ve noticed between the top tier play and everything else is the attention paid to putting the right team personnel in the right places so that they’re not being asked to perform outside their specific role which does not allow them to perform at their most effective.

So with that said, anyone can baby sit an empty point. Not everyone can sustain your entire team through the thick of a skirmish on a small piece of heavily focused real-estate – i.e. the capture point. So unless your comp comes equipped with a lot of sustained healing/defense your “mid point” bunker should be moving to team fights to make sure everyone is still operating in their specific roles. And if you have a strong mid point bunker and win the initial team fight, the first thing your opponent is likely to do is move the team fight away from him so that your team loses that advantage.

I used to be a subscriber to the “hold home/mid” strat and it is still quite effective given the game mode’s scoring and the right comp to utilize it. It has it’s drawbacks though, such as inviting the enemy team to push 5 to either of your held capture points which can be a gamble for your team since at either point you’ll initially be disadvantaged on numbers until the rest of your team can rotate. If the enemy manages a kill before your team can rotate over, that fight can quickly turn against your team and potentially create a funnel whereby your team gets farmed and your strategy countered. And if your mid bunker is sitting on mid by himself while the enemy pushes 5 to your close, then the strat begins to work against you for the reasons I mentioned above. Far easier IMO to rotate the “mid bunker” to the team fight, and send your best duelist to take far and/or police mid thereby punishing the opposing team’s counter to your strat and keeping the proper team members performing their proper roles.

there are better ways to get +7% damage than relying on a Might proc….

Why is achieving the maximum amount of Might stacks considered so wrong, or broken, or inappropriate? Why have a maximum you can’t reach except for small fleeting moments? ANet understood this, which is why we have Strength runes in their current iteration. They simply gave the ability to stack it higher and faster, but at the price that they fall off faster than previously – at least 15% shorter duration from before the feature patch. I think this rune set functions the way every rune set should. Boons were intended to be used. Previously crit damage was favored, which made Might redundant in most cases. Might is now relevant as you all are clearly aware.

In fact the “cheesy” damage culprits out there right now have little or nothing to do with Strength Runes, i.e. Spinal Shivers + Lich Form, Eviscerate + Sigil of Intel, every AI build with a bunker at the wheel watching his “pets” kill his enemies him, etc etc

This is not the issue you’re looking for /wave-of-the-hand

the best part about grenades is that you can manually aim them. the level of aoe control/area denial that a player can achieve with manual aiming is head and shoulders above what auto-aimed grenades could ever do.

If you’re just tired of hitting the button so many times, try Fast Cast targeting with Range Indicator. Half the clicks, still all the control.

BondageBill.4021:

I’m starting to get into tpvp with my guild, and am looking for a class & build that will allow me to rotate between multiple points for point defense and have a good impact on team fights, without being incredibly squishy.

I used to play pvp on my Engi a long time ago, so I am pretty familiar with the overall class mechanics. I’ve tested out a handful of different builds, and I think the closest one I have found to my desired play style is a Celestial rifle build I found on Ostricheggs’ twitch channel:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUp+qlcxELseNCbBNqxI6N2xq85DEgkC-TJxHwADeAAa2fAwFAoYZAA

This build gives me the mobility I need to rotate points and good AoE from grenades, but it feels like there is no damage. Sure, I can hang out on the outskirts of the fight and chuck grenades or mix it up in melee with toolkit, but it never feels like I am making a significant impact on the fights. Additionally, I am having a hard time in any 1v1 encounter.

Am I missing something here? Can anyone point me to videos of this type of build in action, possibly with some explanation of how it is used in pvp? Or is there a different build that would be better suited to the playstyle I described above?

It’s probably that Celestial amulet that’s keeping you from feeling like your getting much done. If you want to pack more punch go ahead and toss in a Berzerker’s amulet instead. Celestial is fairly popular lately in PvP team ques and this heavier “bunker” meta we’re seeing at higher levels but unless you’re facing the top 100 regularly I wouldn’t worry too much about that.

As for 1v1’s try opening the fight from stealth with toss Elixir S. Toolkit>Magnet>Prybar to put early pressure on them, then Net Shot > Nade Barrage > Jumpshot > Blunderbuss. You can add the Throw Wrench in there anywhere. It’s fairly simple and easy way to take the initiative, which is likely easier than trying to out counter-skill your way through the fights like most experienced pvp engi’s might go about it – such a Ostrich – which allows them to use more balanced or attrition based stats/styles.

Was there a particular class match up or situation you were having trouble with?

Other useful tips for the build:
- Tool kit is great for kiting away from enemies/losing fights: Gear Shield, Box of Nails
- Toss S is great for denying stomps on your teammates, and/or rezzing them. Same goes for Stomping enemies.
- Magnet + Net Shot can create easy chances to focus enemies down as a team and create early numbers advantages in team fight situations.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Add a commit Sudoku button.

for when you need to afk the remainder of a 4v5?

The treb is definitely an imposing secondary mechanic, but that’s what makes that map so great. And the Mesmer’s ability to portal/repair the treb has been debated since the release of the game. The trick is to not destroy the treb outright. leave it with a tiny amount of HP left so that if the Mesmer comes back you can whack it once or twice with an AA and be done with it. More than likely he just wasted time running a lap around the map for a single treb shot.

there is almost an entire game within the game when it comes to Khylo and the trebuchet.

I love that map. It’s by far my favorite.