Guild Wars 2

How expensive are these trait unlocks going to be? If it’s not going to break the bank to reroll, unlock the traits, try out the build in question, and then delete the character, it’s not too much of an issue.

On the other hand, so much of a player’s success in PvP stems from the ability to “reroll” and try a class/build to better understand it. This is how players have gotten around the less-than-obvious (or even hidden, like instant cast and crit procs) skill/character animations. It’s also how players stay relevant in your wildly swinging meta game.

Hell, half of balance discussions on this board revolve around “try the class/build yourself before calling it OP”.

The fact that you haven’t even looked at the data yet for how often PvP players reroll tells me you Devs haven’t thought this through nearly enough.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

hackks.3687:

it’s called a “consolation prize” and every competitive sport/event/function hands them out for showing up to compete.

but if you want to be a fascist about it…

Please tell me where is the consolation prize when you lose in LoL ranked, hell, even normal games?

you’ve never heard of “runner up”, or “silver medal”, or “second/third place”?

you cited one example. there are dozens of examples of rewards/consolation prizes being handed out for competing. Racing hands our rewards for top 10 finishes. There are cash rewards and prizes handed out for everything. It just doesn’t get a lot of visibilty because they’re focused on the “winners”.

get a grip

What’s so shocking about ANet scrapping the failed PvP model we’ve had since release.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that they’re making a “pivot” in favor of WvW/PvE as that makes the most business sense.

it’s called a “consolation prize” and every competitive sport/event/function hands them out for showing up to compete.

but if you want to be a fascist about it…

Justin ODell.9517:

we are heading in a direction you don’t agree with

well at least there’s one thing we can agree on

PierPiero.9142:

this is the last build i tried and i have to tell you that it works really well .
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQFAUlcTpPr1Xx6KseNSESRhvPIF51vie8YKPZA-TkAg0CnIyRljLHTOycs5MEB

Bombs but no Forceful Explosives? That’s like taking Grenade Kit without the Grenadier – not a good idea.

I’d take those 20 points straight out of Inventions and move them over Explosives for larger bombs, and either Enhanced Performance, Short Fuse or Explosive Powder. You already have swiftness and protection from your Elixirs.

Djazz.4786:

Hellow there
I Am Djazzl Rank 45 Engineer.
I recently joined a premade team, and played as decap engi for them.
all was fine (at my end back then) but now my role changed to DPS/Condi engineer.
I know engineers can support/win the mid point easy, but i seem to lack with it!!

i used:
Hgh Condi
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspSXHxSfF17ICoC5loHPGlNZfe8WsFEC-ToAAzCpI0SplTLjWStsaNWYKC
And grenade condi
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalIqiYnvSyF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF6nl95xbxWQIA-TsAAzCuI0SplTLjWStsaNE5swcBA

The problem is when i get focussed i’m screwed.!
i need some tips and tricks with it!
also have a private arena for training
All help would we awesome!!
whisper/mail me ingame,
Djazzl.4786
or just leave ideas and tips here
Ty all ^^

You should be beating the kitten out of Thieves with either of those builds.

HGH condi’s has on-demand Stealth and Stability – that right there is enough to give Thieves a nightmare – to go along with aoe immob, aoe blind, aoe chill, and Supply Crate.

Tool Kit/Nades is my build of choice for dealing with Thieves. Gear Shield + Prybar when they get the jump on you, or toss Elixir S when you see them coming.

What exactly is giving you issues?

you want items back so that they can be deleted again? o.O

it’s obviously a major unforeseen wrinkle in their production schedule, and I’m not defending this incredible mishandling, but there’s no way to go but forward. giving back old items that have no place in the new system is no better than what we have now.

what could they honestly say right now that would make any difference? anything they say will be met with hostility, so rather than instigate or even unintentionally antagonize it’s probably smarter to lay low and let things cool down.

it’s not a tactic, it’s called ‘tact’

had to do it sooner or later. just turned out that the removal is “sooner”, and the replacement is “later”…

any of those new rank points count towards our PvP achievements, or is that still being “looked at”?

why would there be patches? they’re deleting PvP.

bhagwad.4281:

hackks.3687:

bhagwad.4281:

A decap engi just needs to keep a point decapped for around 10 seconds before dying. That alone is enough to be worth it.

curious to know your math on that

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Minimum-Time-to-Live-for-Decap-Engi/

Actually 10 seconds is pushing it. More like 5 seconds.

OK so there is no math. Sorta what I thought.

Whatevs, carry on…

bhagwad.4281:

A decap engi just needs to keep a point decapped for around 10 seconds before dying. That alone is enough to be worth it.

curious to know your math on that

Larger nodes is a horrible idea. I really wish people would stop asking for this and just start learning to strategize when to be on point and when to be off it. Enlarging the nodes would only make the game more mindless and focused on builds than actual skillful and strategic play.

The last thing we need is to dumb the game down further.

I dunno, the build kinda sucks for duels IMO. Without a capture point to fight over there’s nothing to limit your opponents movements and the 2 > 3 > 2 combo falls apart as soon as the fight goes on the run. Hence why it’s not as popular in WvW as S/d or D/p

style.6173:

hackks.3687:

What’s the point of these bags?

I just spent 20g on mats only to find out that I can’t get the final back piece item because I haven’t farmed PvE like the rest of ANet’s favorite lemmings.

Why the kitten are you giving us meaningless stuff we can’t use?

I want my 20g worth of mats back.

Everyone knows you can’t get ascended gear without doing PvE. Why is this a surprise to you?

Protip: Follow the dulfy guide in the future. It walks you through everything you need ahead of time.

Everyone? Because I didn’t. Because I don’t farm PvE. ANd I don’t have ascended gear other than what I purchased with Laurels. I don’t even have a 400 crafting profession. Why, because they’re worthless in PvP.

So you think it’s OK to give a pool of players rewards they can’t use?

Pro Tip: learn to think for yourself, little lemming

edit: and it’s not a reward if you can’t use it. it just becomes junk

What’s the point of these bags?

I just spent 20g on mats only to find out that I can’t get the final back piece item because I haven’t farmed PvE like the rest of ANet’s favorite lemmings.

Why the kitten are you giving us meaningless stuff we can’t use?

I want my 20g worth of mats back.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Pretty sure they are true tbh. Buffing AI is the sort of thing Anet love, and not actually nerfing anything like spirit ranger/warrior/s/d thief.

The notes are legit. I am confident of it. Maybe not the most recent set of notes though I guess….

one give away would be that the Necro staff marks are already 180 radius

So if I have this right…

Disappearing:
- Glory
- Glory Boosters
- PvP Salvage materials/items

Staying:
- Ranks/Rank Points
- Accumulated Match Reward chests (already in inventory)
- Accumulated Gear from Chests (already in locker, or on characters)

Is that correct?

What about the rank reward chests and their respective vendors?
Can you explain a little more about how the PvE and PvP gear will be merged? Is “merging” what will actually happen?

It’s been a while but I believe it gives you the option to choose whether you’d like the current tier chest or the next tier chest upon reaching X9 rank. If you just click it real fast it gives you the default one – i.e. the lower ranked chest. I don’t believe it was intended to give both, it’s not real clear either that you’re supposed to choose. I only ever got it right once, even after 60+ ranks :/

Wintel.4873:

Gesamtkunstwerk.6590:

For this reason, let me propose a simple solution immediately: Double the number of sigil slots for single wielding professions. An elementalist’s staff should slot 4 unique sigils; an engineer’s pistol should slot 2 unique sigils; and so on.

4-sigil Engineers are going to be unstoppable. Just sayin’.

Engi’s only get one weapon…

Rocket Boots, Elixir S, Elixir R, Slick Shoes, Tool Kit….

all kinds of options really, what are you trying to do with those Bombs and ’Nades?

IMO you should only be using Focus with Axe MH. You not only lose out on the Vuln stacking and LF generation that shares so much synergy with the Axe but you lose out on a ton of damage that makes the Axe a viable weapon in the first place i.e. the Focus 4 + Axe 2 burst combo, with the added boon ripping and control from Focus 5 with Axe 3

Warhorn functionally works better with Dagger since the dagger requires you to get right up in your enemies face and the Warhorn enhances your ability to do so. The Axe however has no such requirement making the Warhorn clunky at best when used together.

Assuming both a pure power builds of course.

Considering PvP is about to go through some major changes it seems premature to attempt any efforts at pulling in new players. Keeping the existing ones from leaving at a time like this though is fairly significant. A short notice, spur of the moment bonus to those players playing a game mode that is currently and continually going through transition and growing pains seems to me a pretty apt and generous move on ANet’s part.

caveman.5840:

aoe/ large amounts of conditions
random swings /cc
the lucky revealed . a ranger can apply with (sick em) from there blah AI pets … but if they get it it can really mess u up.
skilled players/ organized teams

that’s kind of like saying the sidewalk is OP because you forgot to tie your shoelaces and fell down and hit your head.

what exactly is countering Thieves at the moment?

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Incoming Carpal Tunnel.

Before I go down that road (I have like 700+ chests) I’d like to know what’s going on with the crafting material for PvP gear/items. Will it even be worth it to salvage all of them?

Good stuffz deserves bumps.

Really liked the Magnet fake.

Referring to the 1:30 before the final countdown.

It’s just cumbersome to leave the match, change your traits and build and load back in before the match starts, all while missing out on the pre game strat because you’re frantically change things before you get pulled into the match.

I feel that improving on this small but substantial limitation could improve the player experience in PvP immensely as well as alleviate a lot of the balance problems and issues with maps such as Skyhammer and Spirit watch where conventional setups aren’t ideal.

Why do we have to leave the map to change builds? Why can’t we use that time to respec/rebuild right there with our team, according to what we see of the opposition’s comp?

I know it might sound like a horrible idea at first and that people would be “counter comping” their opponents, but…. that’s actually the point, and not necessarily a bad thing when you want to counter “cheesy” or “meta” or class stacking comps, is it? And after a while those brand of comps would likely disappear and a much wider variety of comps/builds would be generated because of it. Essentially the meta would be busted wide open – theoretically speaking.

At the very least just think of what you could do to help against Warriors or Necros or Thieves or whatever gives your build nightmares if you could slide 10 trait points around, or swap some runes, or sigils, or grab that bit of stability you know you’ll need now that you see 3 Warriors on the other team.

If you need to add structure or limitations to it then maybe only allow for re-speccing via those “build templates” you were supposed to give us ages ago. You could even re-introduce class locking again after the match starts, which wouldn’t be so intrusive to players because they can still adjust their favorite character’s build to something that won’t be rendered useless by the opposition they didn’t know they were going to face.

I can’t help but think that Balance will always be a major issue for GW2 PvP as long as build options/accessibility are so limited.

anyways, just a thought I had while I’m bored at work…

tronjeremy.5820:

Counter stealth 101

Black powder field
Thieves use heartseeker out of it to gain stealth. AOE that kitten. Swing/attack around that kitten without stepping into it.

Stealth heal.
AOE that kitten. Swing/attack the area. He is already low on health or wants to escape when it’s used. Be aggressive.

Shadow Refuge.
Push/Fear the thief out of that kitten. Swing/attack/aoe the area.

Instant Stealth Abilities/Traits
CC the area AOE that kitten, swing etc.

If there is a thief on the other team and you are getting focused, keep an eye on him. If you get to about half health thats when we love to strike. Just have what you can ready to defend or get out of a surprise backstab.

Don’t forget. You cannot cap/hold points with stealth. You have very few seconds to really stay in stealth unless you use blind powder perma steath in which case AOE that kitten. Especially if you see it against a wall they are there spamming 2.

I wrote this quick so it’s not in detail but it’s simple. I just see people crying about it. If anything thieves would probably have the most to cry about against other thieves and stealth. As its pretty much whoever gets the jump on the other that usually wins in a 1v1 with glassy thief.

that’s nice and all, but “AoEing that kitten” is not a counter. That’s merely punishing a player for poor positioning – i.e. standing in one location for too long.

Like I said, there’s a different between countering a player and countering a skill/mechanic.

It’s hilarious that people label AoE as the “answer to all your problems” in one thread, and then chastise people for utilizing aoe in another thread.

edit: going back to the “capping/holding” argument – that’s not an argument at all. Stealth was not designed or intended for the purpose of capping/holding. It’s greatest uses, as I’ve stated, revolve around opening or retreating from engagements. In other words, you use it to kill people and then take their point, or take their point and then sneak away leaving them to recap it and providing a potential 5v4 matchup elsewhere on the map. In short, Stealth was not meant for capping/holding, so please stop mentioning it like it’s some kind of drawback.

tronjeremy.5820:

I believe there is plenty to counter stealth.

There are only a few ways to really play stealth and if you understand the mechanic you can counter it pretty well.

IMO the only stealth that has a counter of any kind is Shadow Refuge and that’s only while the field is up and visible.

There’s a difference between countering a player and countering a skill or mechanic. Once you’re stealth there is no counter other than Sick’em which I have been unstealthed by exactly 1 time. You might be able to gauge the invis opponents next move based on their class or their objective due to that particular stage of the match, but you will not and cannot counter the stealth itself.

I have never once felt that stealth was creating a disadvantage for me or anyone else on my team in PvP. In fact it’s typically the opposite.

Stealth is the best way to engage and/or disengage a fight, is useful for denying stomps, securing rezzes, shedding target acquisitions (painfully few skills offer the possibility to shed the “called target” symbol) and offers the only way to “surprise” your opponent on any of the available maps.

Stealth is crazy strong, and that’s not totally bad but it does need some more (read: actual) counter play.

IIRC Mesmer is like the last of all the classes to have it’s vigor up time nerfed – not really sure why anyone would be surprised by it at this point. Mesmer is as deserving of the nerf as every other class was.

SB 3 works off initiative not endurance, btw.

There are better ways to make arguments about Thief claiming sole ownership of burst/roamer in PvP.

every class is getting their vigor access nerfed – engi and thief got it in the last patch, for instance. deceptive evasion needed a nerf ages ago, as well. none of this should really be all that surprising.

maybe we should talk about the community’s lack of a sense of humor?

they’re as funny as anybody would be talking shop to a bunch of strangers they can’t see…

Toraden.5321:

I bought this game about 4 days ago. Have to say pvp in this game favors stealthers and ranged classes only. The amount of dodges, escapes, stealth and healing for ranged classes in this game is insane compared to other mmorpgs.

I try to learn how to pvp as a melee warrior. I cannot close the distance and i rarely land a hit. I have no freaking idea which buffs, abilities my foes are using because they are all instant abilities and there aren’t enough visual indicators to know which ones they turned on. So far only abilities i know how to dodge are aoe abilities. Other than that i have no idea what the hell is going on. Unless there is a detailed guide to teach new players how to pvp in this game, i am done with this game.

I feel for ya, man. I had only played Warhammer online before coming to GW2 and PvP was a massively steep learning curve for me. It’ll take a little time to get used to watching for and recognizing boons or conditions on you and your opponent, and understanding what kind of build your going up against based on the class/weapons/etc your opponent uses, and the little tricks you’ll develop for taking on each of those with your chosen class/build. With that being said though, it’s totally worth it. The combat is addictive and fast paced, and it costs nothing to reroll a new class in PvP so the learning and experimenting never has to stop.

Some advice I might give would be:
- start slow – pick up a bunker or duelist build to begin with so you can slow down the game and give yourself time to recognize what you’re doing and what’s going on around you.
- try the other classes – anytime a class is giving you troubles/grief, make one of your own. Like i said it costs nothing, and you don’t have to master the class, just play a few matches with the build they were using just to get a sense of what they do, how they do it, how often they can do it, and what the animations looks like. This above all else will help you improve and understand the game play.

hang in there, and good luck

I honestly don’t care if something seems “too easy” to play or “too passive”. Yeah, I’m a little annoyed that I have to play near perfectly and for a rather extended period of time before I can beat a MM Necro for a capture point while all they have to do is land one immob and then hit all their buttons, but it was my choice to not take the easy way out and challenge myself by playing a build with more risk involved than mere easy rewards. I like to think that’s why I still win those fights more than lose them.

Most of the problems I have with MM Necros are the same problems I have with Spirit Rangers and Mesmers – which is the sheer number of AI entities on the screen breaks the game for me – and by “game breaking” I mean it makes it hard if not impossible to perform basic actions within the game, such as targeting or reacting to my opponents or even simply hitting them back due to all the body blocking and aoe-hit caps.

Last but not least, let’s not forget about the “fun” factor – which is why we’re all here to begin with. It’s not fun to have the game working against you, which is exactly what AI saturated comps do to their opponents (they do exist, and are used at all levels of tpvp) – they make the game work against you. Area denial and aoe doesn’t work when you’re only allowed to hit up to 5 targets but there’s 15 on the point you’re trying to fight. Dodges – arguably the best part of PvP – become trivial because you can’t see who is attacking you anyways out of the crowd of enemies on the screen in front of you. For a visually based combat game, crowding and cluttering the screen is always going to be game breaking. And nobody has fun playing broken games. Nobody that I know, anyways.

I’m not sure how anyone defends something so blatantly broken. Again we have a class that is enjoying too much damage, too much defense, and too much control – just like the Ele’s, Rangers, and Warriors that came before it.

Solutions:
- Pets/Minions/AI Entities/etc should scale with player stats
- Pets/Minions/AI Entities/etc should not contribute to AOE hit-cap
- Pets/Minions/AI Entities/etc should not break the tab targeting system (ANet actually fixed this but reverted it for the Nancy’s over in PvE – it would seem to me though that if skills can be split between PvE and PvP then target priority should be able to do the same, no?)

Bhawb.7408:

I realize this isn’t a high-skill game like CoD where you need to aim, but I’m sure you can left click your target.

That’s exactly my complaint. Theres so much AI on the screen that I literally can’t even click a target. Forget about tabbing.

What’s going on with this?

I’ll be honest, I don’t really care that it has unintended consequences in PvE. Not being able to click or tab to a target surrounded by AI is game breaking in PvP.

Figure out a way to fix it, please.

Rennoko.5731:

mistsim.2748:

i get it, i really do. but as i said if you’re on voice comms and are able to train the target with your team, the results are better than without SoV on the target. that much i can conclude. so maybe if you have enough survivability on your team, SoV might be worthwhile /shrug.

The problem is, like a guard or warrior, you cannot stop them from countering the signet active. An ignore pain and one dodge, a block skill duration and one dodge, a double dodge and a leap. Then you get no bonus damage, got a weak heal, and are in a bad way for 28 seconds because they KNOW your heal is down because of the obvious telegraph on the skill.

I would argue that if your target has multiple stun breaks, dodges, and invulns/etc still available to them then you really shouldn’t be directing focus fire and important CDs in their direction. Whoever is calling targets should be aware of that.

of course that doesn’t refute the fact that the skill is still functionally sub-par.

Yeah the best part about Engi turrets in WaR compared to GW2 is that the turrets were essentially disposable. It cost AP to lay them down but everyone took spec’d for the AP reduction, and basically just laid out a turret whenever and wherever.

That’s probably the biggest problem with GW2 turrets. Not that they don’t follow the Engi but that they are too costly to leave behind due to CDs.

I played an Engineer in Warhammer (renown rank 90 something I think). It was a lot of fun. It was a pathetically broken class that changed the game into instant hard-mode, but all the craftiness from aoe pulls, aoe knockdowns, aoe heals, aoe stuns, gadgets of all sorts was definitely a lot of fun.

I tried that to some extent when I first got into GW2 and rolled an engi. It doesn’t really work like that with the way turrets work here though.

You know how else played an Engi in Warhammer?

see for yourself:

Brando.1374:

hackks.3687:

Brando.1374:

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Ugh… you might start by:

- don’t just hit buttons trying to brute force your way through an opponent
- pay attention to your opponent: what they’re casting, how they’re casting and for how long, boons/conditions/buffs/etc.
- understand their build, how they use it, so you can avoid their strengths and exploit the weaknesses.
- At the very least, be mindful of your CDs and use them appropriately – i.e. don’t throw down your Dagger 4 when you don’t have any conditions on you; don’t use Flesh Golem’s Charge just to abate some pressure from a caster, use it to interrupt important casts like Heals or Churning Earth
- Don’t run face first into big damage skills like Churning Earth
- Don’t throw down staff marks and then run away from them.

that’s what I got from the first0 or so. I couldn’t really take much more than that.

im a full condi dmg necro, I have no power, how the kitten am I supposed to get him below 90%? and on the off chance that I do going into water will bring him back up.

Well since you asked:

Personally, I’d send Flesh Golem after them while I wait for them to open. If they RTL to me, as soon as I see the character model change I’d be into DS and strafing while pre-casting Dark Path, so I could avoid the RTL and get in an easy Life Blast at close range when they pop out of it. If that LB and DP are enough to blow through Diamond Skin then I’m already set up for a Terror Nuke with Doom and can put them on the back foot and take the initiative in the fight. If I still need to kick out more direct damage, then I go to Life Transfer. I’d be sure to hold on to Flesh Golem’s Charge as well so that when I see them swap back to Water attunement I can interrupt their heal and then lay on the real condi burst.

The fight could be played completely different as well. That’s why understanding and paying attention to your opponent are critical to success in PvP combat.

You might be a condi build, but you’re not devoid of direct damage. Be creative. Come up with something.

Brando.1374:

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3362074
So this is a very long duel I had with an ele before the patch came out.

Please tell me how I am supposed to beat him now if he has diamond skin?

Ugh… you might start by:

- don’t just hit buttons trying to brute force your way through an opponent
- pay attention to your opponent: what they’re casting, how they’re casting and for how long, boons/conditions/buffs/etc.
- understand their build, how they use it, so you can avoid their strengths and exploit the weaknesses.
- At the very least, be mindful of your CDs and use them appropriately – i.e. don’t throw down your Dagger 4 when you don’t have any conditions on you; don’t use Flesh Golem’s Charge just to abate some pressure from a caster, use it to interrupt important casts like Heals or Churning Earth
- Don’t run face first into big damage skills like Churning Earth
- Don’t throw down staff marks and then run away from them.

that’s what I got from the first :30 or so. I couldn’t really take much more than that.

I think he means in a practical sense, a 5 sec duration requires the Sig be cast from melee range but with a 1 sec cast the Necro is likely to get interrupted at such close range on a reasonably long cast. So with the 1 sec cast the Sig really needs to be cast from outside melee range to guarantee the cast, which means you’re losing half leeching stack’s duration just getting to your target.

I had the same issue when I tried to use it. It’s functionally kinda wonky.

yeah the bleed stacking got way easier, the defensive capability took a dip though from losing the uptime on Chill and Blind nades. Maybe not such a big hit given the on-demand stealth and stab.

I dunno about exploit weakness. Seems redundant for a build with aoe chill, aoe immob as well as supply crate. I’m not sure the damage output could take the loss of Shrapnel’s bleeds either. There really aren’t a whole lot of options in that adept tier.