Guild Wars 2

Wanze.8410:

munkiman.3068:

Wanze.8410:

munkiman.3068:

mtpelion.4562:

laokoko.7403:

^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.

Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.

EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.

Here is another moral for the story. GW2 has a massive unregulated market, something unseen in “most games” so to suggest some regulation isn’t an outrageous proposal. Putting in a check and balance system on buy and sell orders would seemingly keep the market moving smoothly and reduce the price spikes seen in certain markets, bringing fair and balanced practices for everyone.

It really, in all fairness, doesn’t matter if marketeers are ruining the economy or not. It doesn’t matter that they are earning shiny goods faster, forget those arguments. Let’s just talk about how we can regulate the market prices to be smoother, where prices don’t skyrocket in a day or an hour and the average player eats that spike. Lets talk about it in a way that improves the market for everyone.

Regulating buy and sell orders wont help negating price spikes. The usage of bolts of silk for ascended crafting was limited to 100 per account per day, the spike came nonetheless.
As soon as you limit buy and sell orders, the market loses alot of velocity and price spikes will actually be higher and take more time to get back into equilibrium.

How about we do a little theory crafting? Maybe we can point out some flaws in the system, which may or may not be glaring problems. I don’t have a bunch of time to sit down and run the numbers, but on the surface it seems like a logical suggestion. Here is the breakdown.

Problem: The market prices can be anything. Super high sell orders on wood (lets say) can and do on occasion get reached in the same way super low buy orders can and do get reached. This “price gouging for maximum profit” gets passed on to the un-knowledgeable consumer.

Solution: Limit the range in which buy and sell orders can be placed (tossing out a number here, say 35%). Once an established sell order is made, the buy and sell prices can’t move out of that 35% range (70% margin between buy and sell). As sales increase in price the target moves with it.

Example: A new item hits the market a bunch of players put in that dropped item into the market at all sorts of prices (we’ll say a range between 100g and 5g). Obviously the low sell offer will establish our range, kicking back all the sell orders beyond that range. Buy orders get put in too now, but we have an established target, they cannot be placed below 35%, nor can sell offers be placed higher than 35%. As new sell and buy prices get established that target fluctuates, which allows for increase and decreases in price, but not spiked prices beyond that range.

Now, in my mind, i envision it how the target price for gems works now. If i place an exchange offer, wait a few minutes, the price moves and i cannot make the exchange. So i know at least the system is capable (coded enough) to a least factor in that ability in tracking. Obviously, i’m not doing the math here, it could be 25% or 20% or 50%….

I dont see, how this would stop price spikes. Price spikes are usually caused by high demand and all your suggestion would do is concentrate sell listings around the actual price. But once the supply on the tp is used up, it wouldnt prevent the price to rise.
If your system was in place and wood costs 1s on average, so the minimum buy order i can put in is 65c and the highest price i can list it is 1.35s.
Now i am buying up wood because i think in a month or 2, wood will be in demand and will be worth 2s. Right now i have the possibility to post it at 2s, making it available supply for everybody. If i cant post it at 2s, i just hold on to it and wait until the price rises. Once it does, you wont have many listings between 1.35s and 2s and beyond to prevent an even higher price spike.

why not just take away buy order system. If you want to buy something go buy from the cheapest item on the trading post. That’s what most game uses.

And don’t start telling me about convenient. If you undercut by 20% to the usual price, I’m sure it’ll get sold instantly.

mtpelion.4562:

laokoko.7403:

Which is why people are complaining. People actually get rewarded for just farming and adventure in other game. And in this game just like you said, they literally have nothing to show for compare to the merchant.

And the button line is Wanze did get rewarded for what he is doing, which is being a merchant. And dont’ tell me Wanze having a beautiful house isn’t a reward.

In this game, you still can get every reward in the game by adventuring or farming. If you don’t want to take that long, you can also trade away your things for gold, then trade that gold for the thing you want. Most other games don’t allow you to do that and force you to grind out everything for yourself.

Bottom line, Wanze is enjoying the rewards of other players because they GAVE him their rewards because they wanted to. If Wanze has a nice house, it is because the players of this game rewarded him, not the game. The game ONLY rewards adventuring and farming.

do you just like to play with wording? Since how does anything even matter. Farmers and adventurer are complaining because they didn’t get the house and only merchant have a house.

mtpelion.4562:

Essence Snow.3194:

Considering that ya’ll defend the economy tooth and nail, I take it you think it’s perfect?

It’s a fairly well balanced free market.
That’s as close to perfect as you can get.

perfect economy? probably.

Perfect society or game? no.

It’s like the government trying to enforce the taiwaness people free trade between china. Is it better for the economy? yes it is. But it dont’ necessary mean everyone will have better living. That’s why there’s a riot there.

mtpelion.4562:

laokoko.7403:

ya sure so magically Wanz have like 60k asset since he dont’ get rewarded from TP at all.

I think you have some point about not easy to profit from the TP. But you are forgetting the main point.

You literally says yourself, farmers and adventurer aren’t rewarded in your story. Which is the main reason why people are complaining. I don’t think your story applied in other mmorpg, because people’ll actually tell you they are rewarded for adventure or farming.

Wanze doesn’t get rewarded by the TP. Other players are giving him their rewards as a trade for things they want. That’s how he builds his house. The TP does not create any rewards at all, it is an exchange tool that lets you give away stuff you don’t want for stuff you do want.

Adventurers and Farmers get rewarded for doing adventuring and farming. Those rewards get traded for gold or used. If they want to trade for gold, they have to use the proper tool, which is the TP.

Which is why people are complaining. People actually get rewarded for just farming and adventure in other game. And in this game just like you said, they literally have nothing to show for compare to the merchant.

And the button line is Wanze did get rewarded for what he is doing, which is being a merchant. And dont’ tell me Wanze having a beautiful house isn’t a reward.

mtpelion.4562:

laokoko.7403:

mtpelion.4562:

laokoko.7403:

^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.

Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.

EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.

you mean like Arena deleting the suggesting forum. So no one is suggesting on the main forum?

No, people arn’t complaining about the TP, people are complaining the way the game is designed, flippers have such a huge advantage in this game compare to other games.

It isn’t as easy to gain money from the TP in other games.

And you already pointed out the problem, adventure and farmers arn’t reward in this game. I’m pretty sure they are equal if not more rewarded than merchant in other game.

Actually, this is the MMO that is the most difficult to make profit using the TP of any MMO I’ve ever played, primarily because the servers all share the same economy and there aren’t a bunch of arbitrary restrictions that can be exploited.

As for rewards, adventuring and farming are the only way to get rewards in this game. Playing the TP does not provide any rewards at all.

ya sure so magically Wanz have like 60k asset since he dont’ get rewarded from TP at all.

I think you have some point about not easy to profit from the TP. But you are forgetting the main point.

You literally says yourself, farmers and adventurer aren’t rewarded in your story. Which is the main reason why people are complaining. I don’t think your story applied in other mmorpg, because people’ll actually tell you they are rewarded for adventure or farming.

mtpelion.4562:

laokoko.7403:

^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.

Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.

EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.

you mean like Arena deleting the suggesting forum. So no one is suggesting on the main forum?

No, people arn’t complaining about the TP, people are complaining the way the game is designed, flippers have such a huge advantage in this game compare to other games.

It isn’t as easy to gain money from the TP in other games.

And you already pointed out the problem, adventure and farmers arn’t reward in this game. I’m pretty sure they are equal if not more rewarded than merchant in other game.

^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.

I think the moral of the story is farmers and adventure can use wand also.

phys.7689:

Anyhow the game is better, and sold very well with abolishment of the AH completely, the game is redesigned so that drops are easy, you can reroll stats, and there is always a reason to jump back in, also the gold sinks eat up basically everything in your hunt for power. anyhow, The main point of that was to say that working as intended isnt always good for the game, and that trying to create TP economies can work against gameplay.

ya but in all fairness, Anet is trying to sell gem, Blizzard isn’t.

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

why does it matter if you are paying in japanese dollar yen or Euro.

Because the Euro is a real currency, the japanese dollar is not.

tolunart.2095:

If GW2 were to suffer similar problems to D3, for example, the price of Dusk would jump from 1,000g to 10,000 to 10,000,000g within a month.

You just like to talk your way out. Like D3 inflation is even worse than the gem-gold exchange.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

No, that’s not what I"m saying. I’m saying the “problem” is the bug which cause the inflation. Not inflation due to the economy system.

The source of the problem is the bug not the inflation due to their economy system.

The bug came at the very end of the period of hyperinflation, it didn’t cause it.

Obviously since you know so much about a game you never played. And you have so many resource that you know only 5 people is complaining about the GW2 economy system.

I can read. Do you know that May comes after March?

Nevermind. You don’t even know what you’re talking about.

why only march?

And you act like hyperinflation matters. If the problem is really about hyperinflation, I should be able to make 10 times more money from farming items which is the only thing to do in the game.

why does it matter if you are paying in japanese dollar or Euro.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

No, that’s not what I"m saying. I’m saying the “problem” is the bug which cause the inflation. Not inflation due to the economy system.

The source of the problem is the bug not the inflation due to their economy system.

The bug came at the very end of the period of hyperinflation, it didn’t cause it.

Obviously since you know so much about a game you never played. And you have so many resource that you know only 5 people is complaining about the GW2 economy system.

Let me ask you a question, what does it matter if I’m paying in Japanese dollar or US dollar. You seemed to think the value of the currency matters.

If there really is an inflation in diablo 99% of the item wont’ drop in price.

People just like to talk about basic economy principal and not look at the big picture. Everyone assumed price will drop since Anet nerf champ bag gold by 80%, and apparently T6 material keep climbing.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.

There you go. The problem with it is never about inflation directly. It is about bug and duping.

Right. Here’s some quotes from the article:

[W]hy [are] certain items priced [s]o astronomically high? Many of them are not even that good yet cost 100’s of millions of gold. … I have about 45,000,000 gold saved up [and] check every few days to see if I can get any upgrades that are worth the gold, but … everything is vastly overpriced … clearly controlled by the gold sellers.

[A]dditional gold sinks [are] unfortunately comparable to spitting on a fire … [they] do nothing to limit the core issue which is that players are earning gold faster than they [want] to spend it. Repairing is not a … good gold sink as it works best [for] players who are [dying]. … Crafting is the same, works well on players who can get the items to craft with … but leaves players with limited gold supply out of the picture. … The amount of gold that drops … needs to be nerfed, and not softly.

watching the markets collapse and gold become worthless. … So you feel rich that you have a billion or two in gold[?] … [W]ell guess what, you aren’t … there is nothing you can invest in to hold value. The only thing worth anything has become $$$.

Several competing definitions for hyperinflation exist, with the strictest — an increase of 50 percent in one month — defined by economist Philip Cagan in his 1956 book The Monetary Dynamics of Hyperinflation. By his definition, the Diablo 3 economy appears to have entered hyperinflation between February and March of 2013, when the black market price of gold fell from $0.20/million to $0.05/million — a decline of over 75 percent in a few weeks

This, however, was still only the penultimate stage. On May 7th 8th, 2013, Blizzard rolled out Patch 1.0.8, which contained the seeds of the last, hyperbolic surge of gold superabundance. One change was the altering of the gold stack size from 1 million to 10 million per $0.25: a simultaneous redenomination and 90 percent devaluation (sitting, as the price was, at the RMAH floor) of virtual gold, targeting black market rates of roughly 4 cents per 10 million. In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.

In just a few hours, the already gold-swamped economy saw trillions more created: a mammoth deluge of, by then, worthless virtual gold chasing finite goods, driving prices upward in leaps and bounds. It was, at last, the hyperbolic blow-off characteristic of real world hyperinflationary episodes.

---

Oh, there’s that part about the bug. Yep, no mention of inflation at all, just a bug.

No, that’s not what I"m saying. I’m saying the “problem” is the bug which cause the inflation. Not inflation due to the economy system.

The source of the problem is the bug not the inflation due to their economy system.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

The problem with diablo was never about inflation.

It describes what happened in the game that destroyed its economy, and it is pretty much the exact opposite of GW2.

In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.

There you go. The problem with it is never about inflation directly. It is about bug and duping.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

The problem with diablo was never about inflation.

And then you go on to describe how inflation destroyed the game’s economy.

I googled the situation with D3 and read this article:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-21/diablo-3-case-virtual-hyperinflation

It describes what happened in the game that destroyed its economy, and it is pretty much the exact opposite of GW2.

So, if you want to compare the two it’s like saying vanilla ice cream is just like chocolate ice cream. Which it is, except they are completely different.

I played up to december I think. I can’t recall, so I can’t comment too much about what happen after.

If I recall correct. It is some form of duping that happened right after. That is the main reason about the hyper inflation at that time.

And the guy already pointed out what the problem is nothing is worth anything. There is no point using the blacksmith because you wont’ get anything in return. (which is the main source of money sink).

99% of the items on the auction house is actually getting cheaper. It’s the 1% of the item that everyone want worth your whole bank account.

Wanze.8410:

It just demonstrates that i am more dedicated than the average player and play game more efficiently than them.
Borghal just suggested that the average gph return for crafting/dungeons/world bosses
is 10-12g and i compared it to my average earnings in game which seem to be completely in line.

eih no, because many game play dont’ even reward anything, for example map completion or spvp. Or for example spend 1 hours afking so you can spend 20 minutes killing tequal. Even with the revamped spvp, I’m not sure if the reward is comparable to other things you can get.

Those activity can be fun but not necessary rewarding.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

The complaint in diablo 3 and gw2 is exactly the same. The amount of complaint on the forum on the topic is roughly the same too.
.

I never played D3 and it’s been a while since I read about the crash there… but wasn’t there something about players selling stuff for real money? And if the situation is the same, why hasn’t inflation spiraled out of control leading to GW2 crashing? Things are actually working as intended, as confirmed many times by JS. You remember him, right? The guy who is in charge of keeping things working as intended…

yes Blizzard “let” people selling items for real money.

The problem with diablo was never about inflation. The problem is there is no point playing. Because you are not rewarded with anything. People literally played hundred of hours and get “0” things in return. Even if a legendary drops, unless it have perfect stats and most likely it don’t, it sells for penny in the auction house, since there is no bound on equip system.

And the flipping issue is much worse in diablo. Because people are putting items that worth billions for a few hundred gold. Since a sword with perfect stats might worth billions while if the stats isn’t perfect it is worth a few hundred gold.

And since you dont’ make “any” money farming, since getting anything worth any thing is like the lottery. People end up spend all their time flipping the auction house.

And many games “let” people buy gems(or whatever currency it is in their game) from the cash shop and sell it themselves to other players for in game gold without “going through a currency exchange system”.

And you talked about diablo being broken and want people to compare to other games instead. Which is exactly my point, which other game have people complaining about flippers making too much money.

tolunart.2095:

Gene Archer.8560:

tolunart.2095:

I never played D3 and it’s been a while since I read about the crash there… but wasn’t there something about players selling stuff for real money?

Yes, and it was perfectly legal to do so because Blizzard set that up, and it worked as intended, because Blizzard got a cut of the profit from each successful sale. Blizzard set it up that way on purpose, and it did what it intended to do, which was bring them more money.

And then the game collapsed. Oops.

Good to know that. Among the suggestions I’ve seen was that players should be able to sell gems directly to each other instead of using an exchange rate. That would be an incredibly bad idea and will cause the economy to crash.

What difference does it make beside no one will speculate Anet is manipulating the price.

I seen other games let the players trade it themself. Nothing happened. I’m pretty sure many games let the players sell the whatever ruby, diamond, or currency themself.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

The complaint in diablo 3 and gw2 is exactly the same. The amount of complaint on the forum on the topic is roughly the same too.
.

I never played D3 and it’s been a while since I read about the crash there… but wasn’t there something about players selling stuff for real money? And if the situation is the same, why hasn’t inflation spiraled out of control leading to GW2 crashing? Things are actually working as intended, as confirmed many times by JS. You remember him, right? The guy who is in charge of keeping things working as intended…

It’s ok. I dont’ take people more credible just because they have a tag.

It’s not like I listen to the goverment. Just because they keep telling people things are ok and apparentment the president in my country only have 9% people left supporting him.

Obtena.7952:

laokoko.7403:

tolunart.2095:

My response is… if you can’t tell me why it’s bad or how to fix it, what do you expect to happen?

I dont’ know. Since you obviously don’t care about the same 5 people complaining. I’m not sure why the same 1 or 2 people telling people there’s no problem matter.

That’s a rather tit for tat argument … his question is legit. There really isn’t anything to discuss if people can’t even frame the discussion in way where constructive debate can happen. This requires someone to go beyond quoting their opinion.

I already told him. People complaining is the problem. And there are no less people complaining about gw2 economy compare to amount of people complaining in the diablo forum.

tolunart.2095:

My response is… if you can’t tell me why it’s bad or how to fix it, what do you expect to happen?

I dont’ know. Since you obviously don’t care about the same 5 people complaining. I’m not sure why the same 1 or 2 people telling people there’s no problem matter.

The complaint in diablo 3 and gw2 is exactly the same. The amount of complaint on the forum on the topic is roughly the same too.

I don’t think it is exact the same though, since one is a mmorpg with more activity while one is an arpg in which it is more important to make farming treasure the core part of the game.

And obviously playing gw2 is at least a bit more rewarding. I spend hundred of hours farming and flippers make more money than me in 1 minutes. At least it isn’t that bad in GW2.

Borghal.1635:

laokoko.7403:

Just buy those limited edition event item. It’s not rocket science.

Sure you might get screwed from over hyping and price plumet but eventually they’ll always go back up.

You’re talking about stuff that happens only a few times per year and there isn’t a guarantee of:
1) the price rising much / having enough of them to actually profit
2) even getting the item in the first place, they are often expensive

Take the silly scimitar for example – it already started out at 60 or so gold. And it spiked a lot THREE MONTHS later.
Then you have Chiroptophobia, that started out also at 60some and toady is a little over 70…
So, to profit from that well enough, you not only have to already have tens or hundreds of gold in the fist place, you also need to be lucky and choose the right item and live with the fact that you might not see your money in months…

phys.7689:

Its not bad as an option, but its not good as the best option.

I have yet to see someone comment on this point, even though it is probably the most important of the discussion…

well just be patient. I quit the game a few times. Everytime I came back all my items double or triple in price.

Sometimes I regret not quiting longer since price doubles in a few month again.

probably dont’ matter. It’s not like you need to spend more than 2 or 3 minutes waiting for a group to fill. At least for the popular path.

Borghal.1635:

laokoko.7403:

phys.7689:

The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.

Why dont’ those people just spend 1% of their time to invest in something on the trading post?

I dont’ spend much time on the TP. And I progress fine.

How does 1% of the time help anything? Just selling stuff from two successive dungeon runs at 1 copper less than current offer took me about 15 minutes for 30 items, in large part due to the slow responsiveness of the platform that BLTC is built upon. Wait 1-3 seconds for each change of page, seriously?

And 15 minutes is not 1% of my time, it is closer to 10% of the time spent playing a day… I don’t see what I could do in a few minutes on the TP that would be so profitable.

Just buy those limited edition event item. It’s not rocket science.

Sure you might get screwed from over hyping and price plumet but eventually they’ll always go back up.

Or anticipate on future release when there is going to be an increase demand on certain item. For example ascended weapon or armor. And buy the material needed for those item.

phys.7689:

The key is to make it so that people can feel like they are progressing at a decent rate via other modes of gameplay, preferably ones the designers feel highlight the strengths of their game.

Why dont’ those people just spend 1% of their time to invest in something on the trading post?

I dont’ spend much time on the TP. And I progress fine.

The thing is you dont’ even need to spend much time on the TP to earn money.

So even if you are a dungeoneer or farmer, why not just spend 1% of the time to invest in something.

That’s what I did. And the pay off is great. So if TP is an easy way to earn money, why not embrace it.

phys.7689:

tolunart.2095:

Borghal.1635:

I’m getting at this – I would like a way to obtain more gear in ways other than just harvesting gold, similar to dungeon gear. Simple as that. EDIT Also don’t cling to details – I’m sure they would have no problem making it so that skins obtained via special “dungeon claim tickets” are account-bound or something like that, that’s not really an issue ;-)

By the way, how many chest do you open to get a ticket, since you do it often if I understand correctly?

This would be a 180-degree-turn from the direction Anet has been going since launch. As in, don’t hold your breath. If they wanted to do that they would have developed the dungeon and karma merchants a lot more.

I don’t do it a lot, only when I’m bored, and I’ve been playing other games the last few months while waiting for the big update and LS 2: the Revenge of Scarlet.

Average is probably a scrap every 3-4 chests and a ticket every 10-12. I’ve pulled maybe 2 full tickets and 50 scraps. Someone really dedicated to this and who doesn’t have a day job could probably do three runs an hour and get that every other day.

you were pretty lucky with those tickets.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Guy-opened-500-Black-Lion-Chests

the tickets are closer too 1/100
the scraps are about 1/5th

10 scraps in one ticket.
So your looking at 50 chests on average to get 1 ticket or 100 chests for 3 tickets on average

Are you sure? Because Tolunart statistic is always right.

I don’t know why the topic keep going. It doesn’t matter what the argument is, they’ll just call you the minority anyway.

It is basically 30 gold worth of sprocket right?

Easiest way is try to find ways to make 30 gold.

the defense probably reduce damage taken by a bit. I don’t know how much, maybe 3-5%. I dont’ know if that is worth it, you need to ask yourself.

how much damage does 25 stack of might add?

Fenrir.3609:

Essence Snow.3194:

Yep only 5 of us….lol There’s at least 5 new threads every day in the general section and a few here.

I find it rather hypocritical that you say you don’t need proof and then demand that others have it. (both are wrong btw)

JS only said that individuals are not effectively controlling markets. He never said anything about there not being a wealth gap or anything specific about player metrics. This is why he was mistaken when asking for proof. It is an impossible condition. That is something I that is obvious. He was wrong to ask for it as are you.

Yes actually it is the same few people complaining all the time and yes the onus is on those bemoaning the current system to provide proof to back up their claims.

So what’s so great about the current system?

I’m not even saying there is anything wrong with it. What so great about people making money so much easier on the TP. What do anet have to gain to make TP so easy to gain money.

I think most ftp games try to make people grind so they’ll get tired of it and spend real money. But what does Anet have to gain to make flipping so easy to gain money.

I personally like the system now because I’m sick of farming. And investing help me cut down on the farming. I just dont’ understand what Anet have to gain by making flipping/investing such a easy way to gain huge money.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

There are obviously many people complaining, that’s a fact. You dont’ have a proof most people are content too.

What, five people?

I don’t need to have proof. JS said it himself, there is no evidence that what these people are complaining about is actually happening. He admits that he could be wrong, however, and invites them to offer proof of their claims. After 20-some pages, not a single statement of proof has been provided.

The fact that the game is working as intended is my proof.

I think JS is talking about precursor manipulation. I don’t think people are manipulation the precursor because the profit isn’t even good since you need to consider the 15% tax.

I didn’t say anything besides people complaining about the economy and TP. And if your a game designer, you should actually care if people like your game or not.

I’m not even saying Anet should change it. I’m saying you should consider it because I dont’ think there are only 5 people complaining.

Of coarse people demand change because “they don’t like it”.

You are demanding other people to keep quiet because you don’t have a problem with it.

There are obviously many people complaining, that’s a fact. You dont’ have a proof most people are content too.

And my question is will you be personally upset if they make it harder to make money from TP? If you don’t, shouldn’t the dev change the direction since they’ll make other people happy but wont’ upset you too.

You have every right to complain if you dont’ want income from TP nerf. But if not why are you complaining about people complaining?

tolunart.2095:

I know I don’t represent every player in the game

ya you don’t. So why counter argument everything people complain.

Why can’t people complain about things they dont’ like.

If your not going to give a rat on how others felt. Maybe no one cares how you and your wife play the game.

ya but basically other poor people need to farm much more since they still need 700 gold.

I think I’m just responding to the part about luxury item. Obviously ascended gear isn’t just a luxury item and it is expensive.

You cant’ say it is “purely” cosmetic. I spend 700 gold just for a set of ascended armor and around 7 weapon.

Eventhough the difference is not that big. But it is still like 15% damage gap and 5% more damage taken between exotic.

Champ bag used to average 15-16 silver each. With the gold nerf, I suppose it worth 10 silver each now.

So if you think making 10 silver * 35 champ bag = 3.5 gold per hour. Is worth it by all means. Not to mention I think since the mobs isn’t lvl80 you most likely wont’ get all exotic champ bag.

Probably to nerf the SE farmers.

Many people is just hoarding. So price didnt’ drop too much.

It’s about 1 gold per damask. But you’ll need to refine your own material.

Bolt of Damask price amount
bolt of wool 6.5 20 130
bolt of cotton 6.78 10 67.8
bolt of linen 12.1 20 242
bolt of silk 5.04 100 504
ecto 37 1 37
thermocatalyc reagent 15 1 15
spool of gossamer thread 0.64 25 16
1011.8 1190.3529411765

Aidan Savage.2078:

In one month, just using level 500 crafts for T7 refinements (assuming I farmed/salvaged all the materials), any player can made on average 650g before sale fees.

If you bought the refined material eg. iron ingot instead of ore. For bolt of damask, spirit wood plank you acutally loss money crafting for sell.

Deldrimore steelingot you make 1.53 gold, elonian leather square you make 52 silver. SO basically 2 gold per day. And basically 60 gold per month. If you refined the basic material I presume profit is a bit higher maybe 70-80 gold per month.

Profit is a lot higher if you farm the material. But still pretty nice for just clicking a few buttons per day if you don’t.

munkiman.3068:

Rydralain.8126:

Edit: Since there is a sort of “what information should we test with the data” question… I think it would be very relevant to know if this is accurate. Does the inflation of precursors, etc, follow in line with everything else? Especially with the things that are pre-precursors and pre-precursor crafting mats?

If you’re asking if the cost of rare 75-80 (lets say staves) are going up relative to the cost of The Legend, then no, no they are not. You need 4 staves to toss in the forge for a chance at The Legend.

Obviously the tier 5 material and precursor are related. And a few of the popular rare weapon. Since those are used for mystic forge.

But other stuff isn’t necessary related. So you might see ecto price or gem exchange drop, but the precursor and pre precursor crafting materail might keep going up.

Wanze.8410:

So if i buy up 50 stacks of iron ore at 1s and relist them at 3s. After some time a price spike happens and it rises to 3s and sells. Everybody on the forums cries that i make too much profit now and how easy it is.

Now imagine a gatherer posting all his farmed iron since launch at 3s and not at its value of 1s. He makes as much profit as me, once the price spikes, by holding on to his items until the price rises but nobody seems to have a problem with that.

There is actually no difference between me and that gatherer because we both wait a long time compared to other people, who sell their loot directy, to get our profit back.

You actually didn’t wait right? You just flipped a bunch of iron and promoted a bunch of copper in a day.

I think the flaw of your argument is you are looking back at what already happened. How about you tell me if I should keep all my iron now and wait for it to go to 3 silver. Or it is better that I sell it and invest in something else. Or should I sell it now since iron might drop in price and buy it back later.

I think you have a point. But the argument is silly since if I want to flip silver, I don’t go mine silver, I mine iron sell it and buy silver. Since I make much more money mining iron.

And basically people dont’ mind the farmer spend 20 hours farming 50 stack of iron and sell it later. But you spend 2 minutes and make the same money that farmer can make in 20 hours. If the farmer use those money he make and start flipping himself, people have a problem with that.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

People are basically complaining about the few people buying out the 30 silver dye because they get the information first. And JS basically says “you know… many people lost money because they bought dye at 80 silver”. Which don’t even have anything to do with people complaining.

What are you even trying to say? Of course it has to do with the complaints. Flipping on the TP carries significant risk, and those who buy near the equilibrium price or who attempt to gain too much profit end up holding the items too long, relisting and losing their initial fees, and/or sell at a loss.

It isn’t just, “I bought 100g worth of stuff and sold for 150g, big profit!” the timing has a lot to do with it. I could sell the same 100g worth for 120g a lot faster, buy more and sell for 140g, and buy more and sell for 160g and make more money in the same period of time. But you have to know what you’re doing and how to predict what will happen to the market in order to do this.

Because that topic isn’t just about flipping. It’s about “people receiving information faster” have an advantage.

Which is a different subject.

And how about you telling me how much you lost in GW2 flipping life and how much you gained. Unless you are really bad or take too many risk, most likely you gained a lot more than you lost.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

tolunart.2095:

So you answered your own question. What’s the problem?

I’m just saying in the long run almost no one lost money investing. Which is most people’s counter argument to TP flipping.

This is simply not true. Your sample of 30 guildies does not counter JS’s survey of the entire game population.

No, that is not what i’m saying.

Basically JS says, most people lost money over like 10 hour periods or whatever. Which isn’t even the point.

The only people that made money is the people that finished reading the blog faster than anyone else. It’s the people who chase high after those initial people that are lossing money.

People are basically complaining about the few people buying out the 30 silver dye because they get the information first. And JS basically says “you know… many people lost money because they bought dye at 80 silver”. Which don’t even have anything to do with people complaining.

Not that I have a complain about the topic. I think the few that bought out all the iron during the lions’ arch invasion made money the same way even though there is no patch notes. Either way someone will found out the information first and profit from it.

tolunart.2095:

So you answered your own question. What’s the problem?

I’m just saying in the long run almost no one lost money investing. Which is most people’s counter argument to TP flipping.

People come up and say there is risk investing. Some of it even from TP Barons. Oh sure you lost 1000 investing. And you gained 100k. The risk is so big(sarcasm)…

My point is the risk is really small in compare to the gain.

And the issue with the unidentified dye isn’t about flipping. It is about people getting information faster having an advantage. Weather it’s 1 hour advantage or 5 minutes advantage dont’ matter.

Only 3 people out of 30 in my guild can cash in because they received information just a few minutes faster.

I dont’ know what will happen.

The reason I asked because there was a developer tracker saying they wont’ bring past event item back because they thought it is unfair to the player at that time. But they actually did bring past skins back, so I guess there is a change of game direction.

I hope they did bring the items back. And actually makes the item “permanent”. For example sell the item for blade shard. Use some sort of system like the you can trade Zhaitaffy to jorbreaker for dragon wings. So that’ll cap the price but won’t fluctuate the price. So people won’t spend a huge sum of money on a skin which will drop in price the next day because Anet decide to re release it again.

tolunart.2095:

Over the life of the game, most items will be available more than once.

GW has been around, what, ten years now? And the servers are still on. There is no reason to believe GW2 will be around at least this long. Past events and limited-availability items will be revisted once and most likely several times over its life span.

well I didn’t play GW1. So GW1 also re release limited event item also?

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

Behellagh.1468:

People bring up flipping because most of them believe the stories about how easy and risk free it is. They are simply repeating what they heard.

I challenge you to find a person who loss more than they gain in their GW2 flipping life.

Anyone who thought it was easy money, bought a bunch of overhyped items and found they couldn’t sell them except at a huge loss.

With millions of accounts, over the life of the game this has happened a lot more than a few times. I don’t need to prove it to anyone, JS has the data that shows this.

I actually bought a few overhyped items. the price did drop, I just wait for it to climb back again.

I think it’s the part, people keep saying there is risk investing. Like a few of the TP Baron on this forum saying like they loss thousands of gold investing, and obviously they are not poor because we call them TP Baron.

ya I understand John Smith trying to prove people lost money flipping unidentified dyes last time. Which obviously isn’t even what people trying to prove. People trying to prove the very few who get the information faster than others make quite a huge sum of money. I remember there are like 30 people onlines in my guild that time, about 3 people make a few hundred gold from the dye information in a few minutes either flipping unidentified dyes, or crafting, or walnuts. The people who came late lost money.