Guild Wars 2

deSade.9437:

maxinion.8396:

Guys, I cried a little tonight.

I found a ranger, in an acp3 pug, running spotter, frost spirit, and sword.

I never thought I would live to see the day. Was honestly so stunned irl that I downed against some gravelings.

It can happen!

You kinda boosted my self esteem. I’ll feel like a living, walking, talking miracle from now on.

I’m always happy to boost your self esteem, deSade~

Dual.8953:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Thaddeus.4891:

If they make support more relying on build and gear, you could achieve a better balance between DPS and Support build.

And why, pray tell, would anyone want that? Are you absolutely sure that state of affairs (LF1m Supported Geared Guardian) is better than what we have now? It’s different yes, but I would say you could not prove to me that it would be more fun or better. Therefore it would simply be changing for the sake of change, which is among the worst reasons to change things, especially when the current state of affairs is working as intended.

There a multitude of players who want to run utility centered specs, but are completely snubbed by the current dungeon meta because their spec doesn’t do high DPS, so I say yes, there is a calling for change.

Even a DPS optimized guardian/ mesmer is still “mostly” utility (since especially the DPS of a mesmer is lower than other classes in most situations, but makes up for it with utility). Instead of introducing a soft trinity based on gearing, folks should choose the classes which actually allow them to play how they want successfully.

Guys, I cried a little tonight.

I found a ranger, in an acp3 pug, running spotter, frost spirit, and sword.

I never thought I would live to see the day. Was honestly so stunned irl that I downed against some gravelings.

It can happen!

I’ll say this as the third poster in a row, and now the third time I’ve said it myself in this thread: all classes are useful in all dungeons because they all bring DPS + utility.

Here’s a nice video from a GW2 dev about guardian PVE builds. Notice that he runs full zerker, but emphasizes the support role of guardians with blinds and aegis. This is exactly the right role of guardians.

(on a side note: very pleasantly surprised he’s using 20/25/0/0/25!)

Thaddeus.4891:

The problem is not Full DPS build, the problem is that any other role are simply broken.

Support exist and fill a great role, but the vast majority of important support are basic support that need nothing from trait or gear. Meaning that the important support can come from a full DPS build. Even full DPS build have some support trait like on the guardian that use trait like Master of Consecration. But these trait are worth having, while most support trait and all support gear stats are near useless. You will need reflect in a Full DPS group, but you won’t need additional healing.

If the game make the Support useful, then more Support build will exist.

Support is already super useful. This is why people run guardians and mesmers and eles.

If you use sword mainhand and bring spotter and frost spirit, it’s the group’s loss if they kick you. The DPS from a good ranger like this is quite nice, and boosts the party too.

If you’re using any other weapon (bearbow) and not bringing spotter and frost spirit… Well, let’s just say most rangers do exactly this, and they give the class a bad reputation.

Another point: guards are still excellent support, even in full zerker. Stability, protection, reflects, and so much aegis. This kind of support is incredible! You’re preventing 20-100% of the damage that your allies are taking, without sacrificing any of your own damage!

The game has no healer profession— every class is responsible for its own healing with the 6 ability.

The game has no tank profession— there are no aggro-drawing mechanics (except wearing toughness gear, which is unreliable at best) in this game.

There is no Trinity in GW2, and that is the stated goal of the designers. Tanks and Healers will never have a role in the game.

Instead of passive support from tanking and healing, the game has active support, from varied classes like guardians, mesmers, elementalists, and engineers— in fact, just about every class provides support in some fashion (except necro, which is why they’re not used in dungeons). This is absolutely critical to dungeon success.

Seriously, why is a trinity necessary? There’s already tons of diversity in roles from different classes. If you still want a trinity, go play another game.

Why does a game ever require a tank? Think about it.

Shouldn’t mobs always attack the player that’s the biggest threat? The one dealing he most damage, instead of the big guy in armor dealing zero damage?

Tanks exist only because of the particular aggro mechanics a game implements. Games like WoW, TOR, etc have easily controllable aggro mechanics which tanks use to control damage. Healers keep the tanks alive, and DPS kills the mobs. That’s the Trinity of MMOs.

Now, is this necessary? Absolutely not—get rid of easily controlled aggro, and this all falls apart. This is why guild wars has no trinity— as soon as you take away the ability to reliably tank, everyone should focus on DPS to kill before they are killed. So that’s the way the game is played now. There is still plenty of class differentiaton— elementalists play different roles from thieves, who are very different from warriors/guards. Defensive abilities like reflects which keep the team alive are VERY important— this is similar to tanking, but more active. But because there is no aggro, there is no real tank, and there is no healer role in the game.

It’s a different philosophy of game design. The roles of dps/tank/healer are old and boring, and done to death by other games. I’m glad gw2 does something different, and promotes different types of class variety. (Though we could always use more— condition could be improved, etc.)

hendo.1940:

RemiRome.8495:

My eternal gratitude to the guy from [LuPi] that just saved me from the best “Arah P2 – experienced only.” run I’ve ever been in.

I’ve been looking for bad pug groups in Arah all day on LFG and none of them have showed up.

I just want to kill Lupi for them then drop

Hah, I saw your LFG for this. Good luck! What a nice service.

Or 10/30/0/20/10.

Saint.5647:

maxinion.8396:

SE p3: npc yells “nonono we must go to the armory” about seven times when you enter the room before the clown car with the fire ring boss.

No. Let this one be please. I like it Also, it only triggers when you cross the threshold of the room. It’s one of the finer joys in life.

lol, I was about to edit my post to say that this one is actually kind of cute

SE p3: npc yells “nonono we must go to the armory” about seven times when you enter the room before the clown car with the fire ring boss.

Should probably post this in the bugs forum; it won’t get seen here by devs.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

hendo.1940:

so what would you guys say was the best look on my character (also, RIP in peace makeover kit #5, you served me well):

http://i.imgur.com/H9zYOlY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iUyYaqR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Qv8tfzP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/E00QgeF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KiLAoHf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j1l0fuW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hHhfmQ4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FfXgm2y.jpg

Not a fan of the ascended, but for the first time I prefer the Zodiac abomination. Human t3 heavy never strikes my fancy. (It looks like a dirty loin cloth to me)

I like the ascended + human t3 combination. Very cool~

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Oh!

Yes, ele. I agree.

Go with the ele, yus!

Centaur runes with Mantra of Recovery = permaswiftness. Put Mender’s Purity on and it’s a cleanse every 10s as well. This is what I keep on my running set.

Generally I do Blink, Mantra of Resolve, and Decoy, and Mass Invis. There’s more conditions like cripple than immobs in Arah (generally… depends on the specific run) so Resolve is better than Concentration most of the time. Try to use Decoy and Mass Invis before you hit enemies, so their AoEs don’t hit you even when you’re invis.

Torch is also great, but keep in mind that Prestige will deal damage when its stealth expires— don’t be next to enemies when this happens, or you’ll go into combat and slow down.

noobgood.8762:

Hey guys, I wanted to share my new vid with you.

http://youtu.be/KGybllqtjaY

Have fun watching.

such linkin park, wow

Nice video!

Would be happy to help you with AC on NA~

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Romo.3709:

Why do we still desperately trying to put in something that Fractals doesn’t need? It was a bad idea then, it’s still a bad idea now. There were many people voicing their concerns about their fractal habits being seen by the public. The discussions went on so far as people asking if they could opt out of the Leaderboards all together. That was never addressed just like many other topics around Fractured update.

I think the idea should be just scrapped and forgotten. The time should be instead invested in redesigning one particular fractal level that doesn’t even have to be mentioned to be understood which one is being called out. Along with new rewards system and perhaps new items.

In other words, please don’t waste man-hours (which you will most likely have a finite number of, that can be put towards fractals) on something that majority of fractal players never asked for nor wanted to begin with.

Instead let’s focus on the major things: balancing and rewards, because that’s where the main issues are laying right now. Not the lack of Leaderboards.

Please, if you can discuss it with us. What would you like to see changed? How you feel about time investment in fractals?

Completely agree with you on this, Romo.
Leaderboard would be so useless it’s a complete waste of time to make one. And it’s not a feature the community is eagerly waiting for, so I too think it would be better to focus the ressources on more interesting things:

- first priority is to fix the various problems that were presented by many here.
- second priority would be to give some improvements that the community is waiting for (see the various proposals here for what players are really asking for).

Leaderboard is really a last priority, some people were even arguing before that it was something they didn’t want at all.

Honestly I do agree with this. If a leaderboard exists, the only one that makes sense is a speed-running one, which can be fun but is not hugely interesting/motivating except to a very small portion of the playerbase. Better content/rewards/bugfixes/new fractals should be a much higher priority, because it is something that everyone can enjoy.

Plenty of them exist, like Subject Alpha for example. People still stack Alpha because it’s relatively easy to dodge the attacks, even if they’re on top of each other. Many bosses in fractals, like Archdiviner and Mossman, etc., also have high amounts of cleave, and people won’t stack on them because of that.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

maxinion.8396:

Keep leaderboards by clear time. Individual fractals, and then for all possible combinations. Like http://gwscr.com/ , but official and for fractals.

Time to clear is the only reliable metric on how “good” a run is, and is the best way to display mastery and leadership in the area.

I disagree. Time to clear is a bad idea because of the randomness of fractals. If you get Swamp -> Svanir -> Grawl, then you can get the best time, if not, you don’t have a chance.
It would also promote specific groups composition for max dps. This is already partly the case, as people want to get a fast run, but this kind of leaderboar would only make it even more of a situation.

We talked about the leaderboard issue quite a bit during the 2 weeks before Fractured patch, and after all propositions that were made, I think the only logical thing for a leaderboard would be to see the highest level attained, but that only has meaning if there is no hardcap on the fractal levels. Every other suggestion that were made back then were biased in some ways.

Hi Estriella,

I think the solution to that is to keep separate records for each combination of fractals, as I mentioned. Then, no matter the combination, you are vying for the record. You could set the record for swamp – ascalon – cliffside – maw specifically— changing any of those would constitute a new category, and a new record to set. There are lots of possible combinations, and the RNG will prevent groups from going through every combination in sequence and setting the records. This means more groups can hope to compete— if you get a combination that’s not very common (looking at you, anything that starts with aquatic), you’re likely to be able to set a record!

If that’s too complicated, just keep separate records for each fractal.

Or both, which was my original suggestion

Iris Ng.9845:

It took me two hours to finish Arah P3 with my (social) guildies today. I’ve just realized that I’m not up to that skill level yet. The Lupi fight was the pain in the rear. I don’t know what is worse; like how some people rudely interrupted my explanation and expected it went smoothly by itself. Or some kid wanted to prove his solo ability but didn’t have the skill to back up his brag. Or chasing Lupi around and watching his HP go down pitifully slowly. Or die helplessly in the Bubble City because kitten it, I’m out of tricks. The fight at the Wraith Lord was nothing better. I dropped FGS down just to… stare at the thief who broke stack and kited the boss around. His reason is: ‘I die every time I stack!’. Oh well…

Friends don’t let friends run dungeons with social groups.

The time my LH ele was the only one melee’ing Laurent in TA was enough to teach me that…

Not too much to add, PyroAtheist covered it all, but…

Don’t use the racial elites. Time Warp for PvE, or Mass Invis for WvW, are much better options.

For heals, the signet is mostly useful for its active, which allows you to get more phantasms out quickly (but is pretty bad at healing). Use the standard Ether Feast as you get started, as it’s by far the easiest heal to use.

kgptzac.8419:

I had a good laugh reading the latter part of that FAQ… it reads too much like an apologist piece for AreanNet xD

So basically people gotten used to the broken risk vs reward design now… and things aren’t getting better because the dungeon team got dissolved…

Well, not everyone thinks skipping is bad, or that what replaces it would be any better— that’s what we’re trying to get across.

Anyway, yes, the rewards for trash are brokenly low, so no one wants to fight them. It’s unlikely this will be changed.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Folks,

Good discussion. I am enjoying it. The discussion about re rolling is very insightful.

I would appreciate it if you could put some ideas forward for Leader-board mechanics.

Specifically in regard to the fact that I was unhappy with us putting out Leader-boards in their previous functionality (having lots of folks sitting at lvl 50 was not ideal) and therefore the feature was held back.

Obviously we have given Level 50 Leader diversification a lot of thought but it would be awesome to hear your proposals. Note there are a lot of logic problems in the solutions in this area so please do think about associated risks.

Cheers

Chris

Keep leaderboards by clear time. Individual fractals, and then for all possible combinations. Like http://gwscr.com/ , but official and for fractals.

Time to clear is the only reliable metric on how “good” a run is, and is the best way to display mastery and leadership in the area.

If you wanted room for more challenge, you could make categories for duos, triples, etc. as well.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

kgptzac.8419:

I’ve been away from the game a year and came back to find dungeons are even less interesting than before. Before when I played, people only tend to find ways to skip mobs that are hard… but now, they skip everything that can possibly be skipped for completion.

The question is: why is happening when the system is supposed to be improving? We still run dungeons for tokens as before (maybe some daily achievements are a factor now). Do NPC enemies not have a chance dropping tokens or something good?

There’s a very long and involved explanation in the sticky FAQ. ^.^

Such FAQ

Sedrigoth.1978:

Hello, I do dungeons but I’m not so good. Recently I asked “How do I do good for dungeon?” they told me “Learn to doge”. Since then I have done Much dungeon, very pug, so stress. I asked “Why we no do like dungeon forum?” was told “Much stack, such skip, so exploit”. I asked for which build good for dungeon found it it’s So zerker, such DPS, very warrior. Still I do much dungeon, such fail, so sad…please, can you teach me to doge?

Learning to dodge means learning the tells for bosses— i.e. learning when to dodge. You need to be watching the boss and its animations, and be ready to move out of the way, dodge, or evade.

How do you do that? Focus on watching the bosses as you play. When you go down, there’s a reason. Why didn’t you dodge that big wind up attack? Were you out of dodges, or did you just not react in time, or did you not recognize that death was incoming? If you’re out of dodges, ask yourself why— perhaps you’re dodging too much when you don’t need it, or not using other evades properly (GS3, etc.). If you didn’t react in time, practice— you’ll learn the timing eventually. If you didn’t recognize that death was coming, well, now you know what death looks like. Playing like this— critically analyzing your mistakes— is the best way to get better, and makes every other strategy more effective.

The other thing to do is run with people who know what they’re doing, like the Dungeon Mentors in the thread listed. They’re the folks who will tell you the boss tells and strategies, so that you can focus on reacting to something you can expect. You still need practice and reflexes at that point, even if you know what’s coming, but it helps a whooole lot.

Good luck! Great post as well

Oranisagu.3706:

AP is a bad metric, but it’s the only reliably obtainable one we have. after all my friends left GW2, I’ve tried joining a dungeon guild. I had to sign up on a website for runs, couldn’t be offline more than a week (sometimes I just need a timeout from the game) and the guild leader constantly criticized everyone (whilst still clicking every single skill with his mouse) but enforced ranging easy bosses (svanigandr for example).

offtopic, but lollll. worst dungeon guild evar? (no offense to you, Oranisagu!)

Iris Ng.9845:

Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope…. Not in my watch. Ever.

that was about the level of nope I was expecting

Flame Of The Titan.3649:

hendo.1940:

People who ask for AP are most likely trash players since it’s no way to determine whether a player is skilled or not. Someone in guild earlier today mentioned they had a 15k AP elementalist in their AC pug and they didn’t know what fiery greatsword was.

I’ve also played with a 7k AP rifle warrior.

To be honest, I’ve given up trying to find good pugs, nowadays I just purposely try to make the worst Arah pug groups possible so I can just carry through all of the fights.

Just to snip this out

Zerker Rifle Warrior is a great build and is really fun to play

you’re gonna get a whole lot of “nope” for that, prepare yourself~

I mostly bring pistol in situations where I know I can safely park duelists some distance from the fight. The Abom in Arah p2 is a good example: a good group keeps him from moving very much, so you can drop duelists out of range and they will deal lots of nice damage, while a warden pretty much dies immediately in melee and swordsmen can get unlucky and hit as well. The on-demand stun from 5 is useful to prevent the Abom from getting enraged as well.

If a fight doesn’t demand reflects, pulls, or AoE, I will often swap out the focus for the pistol just for the extra damage as well.

reported for exploits

Lilith Ajit.6173:

maxinion.8396:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

So many female humans, but they all look very nice.

I recently changed my female humans armor to phalanx top, vigil leggings, and shoulders, gloves, and boots to battler karma armor (non flame version of the flame wrath ). I have to say, it’s my best combo yet. I adore the phalanx top.

I’m using Phalanx armor and Braham’s leggings. Loving them~

I’m still trying to find the perfect armor combo to warrant a second human/norn heavy to use Braham’s. I’m struggling with that armor set.

I hate the rest of the Braham’s armor, so I just use the leggings. Most expensive legs ever :O

Lilith Ajit.6173:

So many female humans, but they all look very nice.

I recently changed my female humans armor to phalanx top, vigil leggings, and shoulders, gloves, and boots to battler karma armor (non flame version of the flame wrath ). I have to say, it’s my best combo yet. I adore the phalanx top.

I’m using Phalanx armor and Braham’s leggings. Loving them~

Lilith, do you also offer fashion consulting for those of us who would like some assistance?

Lord Kuru.3685:

maxinion.8396:

Aha, here we are:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Slaying-Potions-the-double-edged-sword/page/6#post3671010

In particular,

All of the potions were fixed with the update on Tuesday, but the release note got missed. It was while I was confirming that the fix went out that I spotted the issue with the Scarlet’s Armies potion, so that got fixed in the later update.

Thanks for looking it up…

Unfortunately, this was posted after the second patch went live when it was too late to check. Is there any evidence from between the two patches?

Nope!

As it seems that this was the dev actually responsible for the fix, I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Whether you choose to is up to you, but it’s reasonable to not believe them.

Anyway, whether or not they were all fixed at once, they were only fixed once a similar mechanic became important in Living Story— that much is certainly true, and I think is at the heart of what you are getting at.

Aha, here we are:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Slaying-Potions-the-double-edged-sword/page/6#post3671010

In particular,

All of the potions were fixed with the update on Tuesday, but the release note got missed. It was while I was confirming that the fix went out that I spotted the issue with the Scarlet’s Armies potion, so that got fixed in the later update.

Lord Kuru.3685:

maxinion.8396:

Apparently, they fixed the bug in the Tuesday patch, but not for the Living Story potions. That alone required another hotfix on Wednesday.

There’s no evidence for this that I’m aware of. If they had put it in the update notes on Tuesday’s patch, then I’d maybe believe it, but they didn’t.

In fact, I seem to recall a post saying they weren’t fixed (search doesn’t work).

In any case, I’m a bit surprised each individual potion (dredge, inquest, etc.) holds its own stats instead of “powerful potion” of XXX always automatically means +10% outgoing damage and -10% incoming damage.

I didn’t save the devpost that claimed this. I’ll see if I can find it.

Apparently, they fixed the bug in the Tuesday patch, but not for the Living Story potions. That alone required another hotfix on Wednesday.

There are three fantastic stickies, from Anierna, DEKeyz, and Zelhyn, at the top. Those have all the builds you could possibly want for PvE.

hendo.1940:

And then there’s me, using 30/30/10/0/0.
I must be playing a bad build in all your opinions.

That’s actually the most versatile build. You can easily switch to LH s/x or d/f with those traits.

42.

Nothing wrong with fixing hacks, but OP is kidding himself if he thinks all sellers are glitching.

Pretty sure OP does not mean skipping as we normally define it in this forum, though.

You’re supposed to use these: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agony_Infusion in the infused slots, not Versatile infusions.

In a full DPS PvE build, your phantasms are more than 50% of your total DPS. Hard to say how this translates into a WvW build, since the weapon/phantasm choice is usually very different. But hopefully this gives you an idea.

There is no formula or anything. Your damage is your own damage, your phantasms do their own damage based on their weapon. You have to compare the DPS numbers from your weapon’s auto-attack compared to the damage per hit from the phantasm.

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Yeah a Mesmer in a speedclear guild never uses 10/20/0/25/15 (some ppl in the old Define [HC] were using it for fractal, but we don’t ever use that build in Snow Crows). Instead we use builds like 30/30/0/0/10 or 25/30/0/0/15 (when we don’t need that many reflect). And when we need a good reflection coverage, we use like three different builds depending of the situation: 10/30/0/20/10, 0/30/0/25/15 or 15/30/0/25/0.

Thanks for the list here. There’s a lot of nice variety here for different situations. Thanks!

The point is mostly just the extra 200 power, which will maximize your DPS. You can afford this since you don’t need to dip into inspiration for wardens.

Also looks like 30/30/0/0/10 is a bit better, since you can take the DPS options in illusions.

Looks like most people take Harmonious Mantras, which makes your Empowering Mantras better (mantras stay up longer). Hard to say what to use with the 20 in Domination if you’re not using greatsword though. The minors are quite helpful though: apply vulnerability with daze means pistol 5 is better, Wastrel’s Punishment is a 5% DPS boost against most bosses, etc. It feels weird to have nothing useful there, so GS might be tempting, but I would keep it only for range situations still

Standard no warden build is 30/30/0/10/0. Use all dps increasing mods.

I wouldn’t recommend gs. Rely on your team for focus pull… Gs push isn’t very reliable. Use pistol offhand instead— lots of dps in Iduelist.

Don’t go with traveller’s either. Rely on the team for swiftness in dungeons, or get a set with centaur runes and use mantra of recovery for runs.

Less reflects is the killer. And the focus pull is really one of the best pulls in the game. But this build is used by many folks when going for maximum possible dps, so give it a try.