I can usually beat a non d/d ele. Laughing at me doesn’t change the game record.
Reapers are killing easily and tanking way too much.
The record of this beta will no doubt show as much. Laughing at me shows your inability to defend your statements. So laugh all you like, you have no credibility against the beta stats.
Simply put, the more you talk the more credibility you lose.
You arent trying to adapt. You are using terrain to your disadvantage. Your are complaining about a hardcounter killing you constantly. You even describe yourself as mediocre using the build, and yet you have no clue about the experience or skill of people killing you. Now you are trying to use statistics, of which you couldnt have any possible clue the validity of, to argue your point.
Change your build.
Change your playstyle.
Adapt or die.
I dont think reaper is OP. Just that people don’t know how to counter it properly. The spite/reapers LF generation generally relies on being able to hit opponents and generate might and thus more LF. If you kite us, or evade our attacks we will go down quite easily.
Pretty much this. Reaper’s are about as weak as you can get to kiting and evasion mechanics. Their damage isn’t even that high EXCEPT, of course, if you get hit by at trucking Grave digger, but with a 1.25 cast and very very obvious animation, that shouldn’t be more than a learning issue. It does scale in teams fairly well, but god, necromancer needed that. x.X
I’ll admit to being at least somewhat impartial, since I really don’t plan on buying HoT…
Isn’t Reaper doing pretty decently at gap closing with Frost Aura + RS 2? You have a (somewhat) leap and they move slower when they hit you, if someone wants to get away they can do that by ignoring you rather than kiting. Reaper has pretty crazy sustain right now, with the trucks that are GS2 and RS5, with pretty obvious animations to match their damage.
To me it looks like Reaper will have a place in the meta as being the team fight powerhouse, and, for the most part, what Necros in the forums had been wanting.
Reaper is hard to gauge in PvP because a bug is allowing them to proc LF gains from nearby objects not just players.
This has been the case since launch, nothing new.
Since launch?! How did I not notice?? Some bugs do seem to take them forever to fix.
Any fix will take an overhaul.
- non-destructive environments (true fix, not plausible)
- LF Gen from weapons is not capable out of combat (band-aid, still doesnt fix in combat)
- Take away LF Gen from AA’s (band-aid)
- LF Gen on weapons only works on targetted enemies (I dont even know if that is possible). Maybe “LF Gen on targetting weapon Skills only.”
If anyone could think of other ideas, please share.
going from the lf gans wepon out for combat is useless as soon as you hit a door or something your in combat, AA would kill dager and gs, targeted enemies wouldnt work because the gs is set up to cleave and gain more because your are hitting more than one person or thing with it so you would have to overhal lf how to gain it and all weapons lf values and make it work in conquest stronghold wvw and pve i dont see it as that big for a problem its like bring a thief to decap
I’m having problems understanding you. It sounds like you are giving reasons for why things that I said wouldnt really work wouldn’t really work. I also have no clue what Life Force overhauls and Thief decapping have in common.
Reaper is hard to gauge in PvP because a bug is allowing them to proc LF gains from nearby objects not just players.
This has been the case since launch, nothing new.
Since launch?! How did I not notice?? Some bugs do seem to take them forever to fix.
Any fix will take an overhaul.
- non-destructive environments (true fix, not plausible)
- LF Gen from weapons is not capable out of combat (band-aid, still doesnt fix in combat)
- Take away LF Gen from AA’s (band-aid)
- LF Gen on weapons only works on targetted enemies (I dont even know if that is possible). Maybe “LF Gen on targetting weapon Skills only.”
If anyone could think of other ideas, please share.
OP, the moment necro goes down, go in stealth before their downstate spell bar appears. If he can’t target he can’t cast the channeled spell. You should have been here when necros would 100-0 you in 1 sec in downstate form lol.
lol thats nothing (probably because it was guard), i would get literary 1 shotted by that on thief if i didn’t stealth up preemptively xD glad they fixed it~
Viiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid pls.
I remember one Thief who followed me away from the team fight to finish me off, I never used the trait for extra downstate damage. She downed me finally so I started my 1 spam… poor thing didn’t know what to do. She literally started running back and forth and behind things (Downstate 3 goes through objects, for people who didn’t know). Finally she came back around to die next to me with a “:(”
OP, the moment necro goes down, go in stealth before their downstate spell bar appears. If he can’t target he can’t cast the channeled spell. You should have been here when necros would 100-0 you in 1 sec in downstate form lol.
This can be fixed if the LF generation is reworked in order to be like Revenant energy, that when ooc goes to 50%, so it can be easier to balance necro too
And then change all skills that generate LF to be on activation instead of hit? Because that’s the only mechanical solution I can think of that doesn’t include map architecture.
Edit: Scratch that. Won’t work either. (dumb moment).
Taking LF generation out of repeatable attack chains might do it.
Edit2: y’know what… Im just going to stop trying to think for a while.
GS is PvE worthy, not quite PvP worthy. Players don’t stand there and let you cleave on them with slow GS attacks. But npc’s do.
I’ll be honest, it seemed like all the super heavy animations they introduced is doing a decent job hiding at least Gravedigger decently well. There are so many animations emanating directly from the body that it often looks like a blob to me.
The point of reaper is that the more people in the fight the better they are supposed to be. It does perfectly fine at that at the moment. The only problem with blighters boon at the moment is the healing portion is to high.
The trait is the direct opposite of altruistic healing but the value is twice as high. Sure this is balanced in a vacuum because of necros lack of self buffing, sure there is spite but that isnt huge and outside that there is nothing.
What needs to happen is the trait needs the healing portion lowered. If you guys actually played necro you would understand that giving this trait an ICD would make it completely useless and it would be the same as putting one of altruistic healing, signet of restoration etc etc.
Problem about comparing it to altruistic healing is that a single guard can only output so many boons in a given period of time, and they are all related to one’s own cooldowns, blighters boon has no personal limitations or upkeep. But, yes, you are right that the healing number is twice that of altruistic healing and that may be the problem.
To everyone else saying Reapers are too tanky: Perhaps, then, you might consider that the “focus the Necro first” strategy might need to be rethought when the Necro is a Reaper? It could do you wonders.
how about we just change reapers instead of changing everyone’s strategy in regards to necros ?
Because “focus the necro” was In place due to the fact that we have to fave tank everything. Now we have o e trait that let’s team mates support us we’ll in shroud so ignoring everyone else to focus the easy target down doesn’t work now. That how games change, you either adapt or cry on the forums. Looks like some people made the forums choice.,
When people say l2p, it means learn to play not learn to post.
You just exactly nailed the problem. The issue is that you CANNOT focus the necromancer, he can go full glass and destroy everyone thanks to the constant supply of boons.
So focus the bunker? HAHAHAHA.
You guys obviously have low MMR, I’m seeing this strategy popping up more than it should, 2 ele’s or bunker guards and 2-3 reaper necromancers just roaming. Waltzing in doing tons of damage and unable to do anything about it. Rotating against it is a complete nightmare because if you don’t burst the bunker before necro’s roam in it’s GG.
Not to mention you can charge your shroud OUTSIDE of combat. Nothing puts you in a worse mood when starting the first teamfight and the necromancers start with ~70% of their shroud.
This is something Necros have been wanting for a long time now. Without Blighter’s Boon there is just no scaling for team fights, but the healing and LF generation is pretty ridiculous with the right teammates. If they made Blighter’s Boon have a 1 second ICD it might be okay for PvP, but then useless for PvE.
And to some of the Necros, Nightfall + RS 3 makes you far less prone to CC than some of you are saying.
Heres an album of several places you can do this (not just Clocktower). Which brings up an important issue… Mansion has a place you can build LF while on the node, while Windmill doesn’t! Need more phantom dummies!
I at one point considered making a thread about how Mansion has a complete advantage over Windmill for the LF generation, but it started looking like a bug that couldn’t be fixed. Because of this reason I didn’t want to spread the cancer and make a thread so everyone would know.
Ah, I broke it.
I actually feel like the spread of bugs is vital to getting fixed. I’d rather a lot of people exploit something and them finally fix it than a handful of players having a very unfair advantage and always getting to take advantage of them, including things such as Tournies and so forth.
And especially when it turns into “omg, Necros are crazy tanky, I couldn’t beat this one!” who may just be exploiting, or in the case of Clocktower, are getting benefits they shouldn’t.
If there was ever a time to bring it up, I think it is now.
This is a huge structural bug from what I can tell. I’m not sure it is even something that can be fixed without changing the mechanics of some maps.
@Vlad,
It is believed that a Necro with 100% LF has a complete advantage at the beginning of a fight versus having 0-20 LF. All you have to do is one auto and then run around to get a pretty nice advantage.
Heres an album of several places you can do this (not just Clocktower). Which brings up an important issue… Mansion has a place you can build LF while on the node, while Windmill doesn’t! Need more phantom dummies!
I at one point considered making a thread about how Mansion has a complete advantage over Windmill for the LF generation, but it started looking like a bug that couldn’t be fixed. Because of this reason I didn’t want to spread the cancer and make a thread so everyone would know.
I just did a reaper solo which should be better than base necro. It took 8 mins. I didnt have ideal food and consumables but thats not going to save 4.5 mins and beat the warriors current best time.
Admittedly theres also a lot to improve and i could have used a more offensive build. But between bloom trolling and bad rng i gave up using soul reaping and used blood magic instead.
no, not a learn to read issue.
because it is ridiculous.
by the way, the bronze ingots in my bank is not beta content.
but when my beta character uses them to craft items, it becomes beta content? ridiculous.
the coin that my beta character uses to buy crafting materials is not beta content, but the bought crafting materials using non beta content coin becomes beta content? ridiculous.
the sPvP daily rewards is not beta content, but earned by my beta character, becomes beta content? ridiculous.
It’s almost as if everything done by a beta character is, like, some sort of beta.
To everyone else saying Reapers are too tanky: Perhaps, then, you might consider that the “focus the Necro first” strategy might need to be rethought when the Necro is a Reaper? It could do you wonders.
how about we just change reapers instead of changing everyone’s strategy in regards to necros ?
Lol are you seriously saying that “focus the Necro” should continue to be a thing just so people don’t need to learn anything new?
Any support this guy gets saddens me about how people will agree with anything that opposes the popular opinion even when it’s wrong.
And for me it´s saddening that somebody who calls himself a “Forum Specialist for Dungeons and Fractals” is coming here trying to discredite somebody in one sentence who puts great effort in proofing his point. It´s OK if you disagree with this guy but you should at least invalidate his arguments with some more evidence and detail.
Well, sure it seems that way when you delete the rest of what he said.
It just doesn’t seem like a huge problem to me. Reapers have no new blast finishers, just a leap and a couple whirls. And with the exception of Staff they have no mid-long range chills.
This is really like complaining about Warrior with a Hammer having too much CC.
You may disagree but personally i think mesmers (and particulary rampage dmg) are main reason why classes are forced into this rune set right now. Vamp existed before patch but it wasn’t mandatory.
I totally agree. Chronomancer certainly doesn’t help the issue.
These runes are necessary for the health of the game.
For years people have been kittening about ‘being burst from full health to dead out of stealth’ or ‘getting chain cc’d to death and there’s no way to stop it’. Vampirism and Svanir runes are the only counter to those strategies.
All the kittening in this thread amounts to “I couldn’t 100 to 0 them out of stealth.” Good. The game is better this way.
I, personally, dont like that the best runes for avoiding being 100-0’d come with power bonuses and leeching. I think Svanir are more balanced, although the chill bonuses are nearly useless.
So it is ok that 2-3 classes can 100-0 character with no effort (and maintaining great survival) and rest should suck up and have no way to defend themself against it unless they sacrifice everything?
What I am saying is that I don’t think that runes used almost purely for their defensive characteristics shouldn’t come with +Power… Wait, do you consider the +Power from the runes to be, “everything?” If that’s the case then I guess I do support sacrificing everything. Let’s be real, the “rest” you are talking about is purely Thieves, which brings to my other thoughts.
Currently the runes are just a band-aid for Thieves. Fix the class so it doesn’t absolutely need a particular rune to survive, and change the stat bonuses on Vamp runes. Mesmers get just as much if not more out of Vamp runes than Thieves when you consider Portal play. I don’t like that they can get an absolutely free pass with the two combined.
These runes are necessary for the health of the game.
For years people have been kittening about ‘being burst from full health to dead out of stealth’ or ‘getting chain cc’d to death and there’s no way to stop it’. Vampirism and Svanir runes are the only counter to those strategies.
All the kittening in this thread amounts to “I couldn’t 100 to 0 them out of stealth.” Good. The game is better this way.
I, personally, dont like that the best runes for avoiding being 100-0’d come with power bonuses and leeching. I think Svanir are more balanced, although the chill bonuses are nearly useless.
You block and/or report and move on. I don’t know why people respond to trolls/ragers.
Ive had ragers challenge me to 1v1’s, so I fight them a few rounds, talk about builds and tips, then when they calm down we go our separate ways. I’ve learned some things like that, so I guess I really don’t mind responding to ragers.
Unfortunately ive never been lucky enough to get salt in the mail.
nevermind, I looked it up. Well, perhaps my idea has some merit.
Adding a stun or daze to a skill which completely takes away your weapon, healing, utilities and elite skills is asking for a bit too much. Mesmers already have enough stun and daze abilities, and Engies would be able to Moa (nullify transforms) and gain CC effects from Crate elite at the same time. It’s just bad for balance. Unholy Sanctuary is a defensive Grandmaster trait, it needs some perk besides the 125 (or whatever) healing per second.
Cart does something HUGE that Waterfall doesn’t do, you can actually use it to stay inside the point from knockback. The fences on Waterfall are designed to be just far enough away to make you off point, so despite being better for LoS reasons each one has a drawback and a plus.
Skill 5 has a bit of poison but oitside that neither the gs or reaper shroud do ANY condition damage without traits, the only two off the top of my head being the reaper on that makes chill dot and dhuumfire.
I believe that is being changed to Chill instead of Poison.
So, I can’t go into much detail on things quite yet, but I just wanted to reassure you folks that we’re actively discussing a number of issues that are affecting balance in PvP – including, but not limited to elementalist sustain/damage. Per the usual, we’ll be talking to you folks about the changes once we’ve finalized them.
Sorry I haven’t been that active on the forums lately – we’ve been pretty busy around the office.
“Thanks, Grouch. You’re the worst!”
Edit: Also, just because this is an elementalist thread doesn’t mean we’re only looking at elementalist, and it also doesn’t mean we’re only looking at doing nerfs.
So nothing on nerfing Celestial Amulet ? I can see 3 stats that could be shaven in pvp at least (condition damage/healing power/ferocity). Or abjusting the burning formula?
Seriously dont kill ele in pvp again
Nerf the amulet that only one class can use, making it even more useless to all other classes…
Or nerf some ele skills?
Seriously leave might, leave the amulet remove some of eles burn stacks and finishers.
You do understand that ele is a mage right ? I’m supposed to control fire and burn (among other things) not let it sit on my wrists for show? Other classes like Guardian/Engi (and Berserker elite spec from the looks of it) can do more burning than ele already.
Celestial Amulet is the only viable build for ele and it has been since it was introduced. Why do you think everyone and their mother runs Cantrips? It’s the only viable option. When was the last time you saw anyone using Conjure Weapons in pvp? Apart from Fiery Greatsword which is exclusively used for mobility.
What about our Elites now that I mentioned it?
When was the last time anyone run Arcane skills (except Arcane Shield, Arcane Brilliance, Arcane Wave which see more use in PvE than PvP). Everyone is forced into Arcane traitline but rarely takes arcane skills in pvp.
What about Scepter/X buffs? the autoattacks are horrible.
Anet can nerf celeddele and buff other things to bring them in line. I don’t see how any of what you said goes against what Sube Dai is saying.
Also, “can do more burning,” and “can do more burning while retaining defensive attributes, mobility, and finishers,” are different things. Why do so many people pretend this is all black and white??
