This idea has been heavily tested since the patch with the new amulets with some results posted in various threads over the past couple weeks.
Mender’s will get you killed in any coordinated team fight, you’ll rarely if every 1v2 against decent players. One good burst and you’re gone.
I’ve found paladin to be much more successful. The reason for this is that although well of eternity and now restorative mantras scale decently with healing power, the base heals from both (with no healing power) is still very good, not even close to being worth enough to give up the toughness from paladin. Also, restorative illusions does not scale well with healing power, so the extra healing power from mender’s is not really useful there.
Finally – more of a team gripe here – having to take mantra of pain means you waste a precious utility slot that really needs to be there for portal (for any serious team spec), especially considering class stacking will be disallowed at least in pro league. For soloq of course you can get by without portal.
My 2 cents FWIW
+1
i gave it semi full day of trial. i am too squishy in team fight as rev and thief take me down easy
1v2 on point same problem as above
toughness is much needed and also portal
i can hold a point 1v1 decent but also scrapper or necro with more dmg.
also the boons just get rip by necro too easily so in 4v4 i am being focused to death.
i hardly was able to heal my allies rather playing defense.
bunker support mes is gone with team comp for sure
this meta make you play high dmg pressure. if not you are just going down. you wont see bunkering unless its good group communication
thoughts till far in pvp unranked on condishatter
1. when grouping with allies i had more losses than win. most cause bad rotation by the pugs as i put myself in hard situation to cover them. while sometime i could handle 1v2 and win
2. scrapper, necro, DH, druid can hold point better and can steal it from you. as i manage to hold the point till help comes i got killed or very low so i disengage
3. in open area or open fight the build shines. ele thief druid guard just drop so fast or disengage
4. necro and scrapper are the stonger mostly with counter pressure but doable if not fight on point alone
5. 2v2 3v3 mostly a win
6. i was the main focus everytime in team fight
7. this build wont enter the meta
OK I get the OH Sword now, the illusion generation really helps! This is a nice build and about the only one I can remotely bare to play in the current meta in PuGs, which is all I play.
That said, Mesmers are a broken class right now, any way you slice it. At least in PuGs they’re mostly dead weight on a team, easily among the worst 2-3 professions in the game right now.
Since the nerf patch my win ratio is half of what it was for the past 9 months prior, and every day I am realizing more and more that despite my experience with the Mesmer, I’m a weak link in most of my teams. Most of the time you can look at the line-up of professions on each side, and realize that we are among the weakest classes in the game currently. Our teams would almost always be better off if even a relatively inexperienced Necro, Reaver, DH, or Engie was taking our place.
The more DHs & Necros are on a team, the more likely they are to win PuG matches. These 2 brain dead classes are ruining PvP for any normally balanced class.
Sorry to vent, but I haven’t been this frustrated playing a Mesmer in a long long time!
Yeah at times this condie shatter build can do pretty well, and I’ve played both Mesmers and condie shatter quite a while, but then some absolute brain dead noob DH comes along and drops his traps and blows me up instantly. At least half the time I die before I can do much more then pop F4, but since all clones instantly vanish it lasts way too short. Dodging out of traps almost never works, blocking never works, so it feels like kitten near a hard counter and it’s literally as easy as pressing a couple of keys to win. I guess I’m just doing something wrong with DH, because they just destroy me both 1v1, and even in most group battles I’m in it’s the traps that seem to kill everyone. Strangely, Anet nerfs us into the stone age, yet leaves this OPd trap junk as is.
Despite the cancer that Necros are to the game ATM, I can somewhat handle them in this build. (Maybe because many FotMers are gracing the class right now.) Surprisingly I have little issues with Thieves…although, again, most are probably just bad ATM.
Wah wah!
Sorry, but it’s been a terrible week for me playing my beloved Mesmer, and I’m probably just going to take a break for a while until Anet gets their heads out of their collective rear ends! I swear, someone had a woody for nerfing Mesmers back into the bottom ~20% of professions where they’ve been most of the last 3 years!
Great videos, sorry to get off topic.
na its ok . mesmer going to have hard 3 months. as i dont see any buff from anet. and if they do only for power mesmer.
DH – yes they have block and too many. but the LB is slow so easy to proc torment and clones. dont try to cap the point and their traps will eat you. i usually have good win rate with them as you said brainless class.
same for necro dont try to cap the point as you cant with all the poison and chill if i see signet necro i burst and stealth away so he cant transfer. also dont try to proc the weapon swap conditions on him as he probably have curses line now and have passive signet. so confusion and torment will do the trick. i uaually have 40% win rate with lots of chill dmg if i try to fight on point. on open world its another story
I agree nice video. You’ve got some good rotations worked out that show what a Condie shatter build is capable of.
I’m not 100% sold on Scepter for both MHs, but I might give it a try.
Why the OH Sword? I personally think I’d go with Torch for the added stealth, and the Burns —even if underpowered-- do mesh pretty well with the Torment & Confusion. You can ride in stealthed, pop iMage, then an F5 using GW, MI, and shatters. That’s a lotta Confusion, Torment, and some Burning.
Again might give the OH Sword a try though.
Again, thanks for posting the video!
thanks guys
i am playing around with weapons to check . torch is solid choise too but cd is longer while sword give more dmg, daze ability, block so i can rotate blocks with weapon swap . also more faster phantsm and clone procing so more faster shatter when needed . but yes stealthy burst with F5 combo is nice but than you w8 for 60 sec to do this again?!
My 2 cents, Mistrust work great with Staff 5 and Gravity Well.
+1 Mistrust works best with AOE interrupts like Chaos Storm, Tides of Time, Traited Diversion Gravity Well and Mantra of Distraction. Pistol has always been a condi weapon suited best for single-target dmg.
@Messiah
Hey buddy! Long time no speak!
About the build you suggested, it’s really interesting! The frequent blocking is quite interesting. I might actually try it out once I get sick of the build I’m using. I imagine I will prefer the one I’m currently using, but I’ll see. A few changes I’d make right off the jump:
- Ineptitude over Malicious Sorcery. The latter really is only worth it for Scepter 3. Ineptitude provides not only offense but a ton of defense when you’re in sticky situations. With the amount of blocks you have, you should be able to keep up a good amount of blinds. It also adds a stack of confusion onto every shatter (if you’re melee). Sorry, I just have not ever been impressed with the current iteration of our scepter trait…
- Vulnerability sigils over Geomancy. You will get some bleeds from Staff clones that are pretty lengthy in and of themselves. If I want to add a condi via a sigil it’s either gonna be poison or Vulnerability to act as a cover condi.
- The torment runes are good in theory, but I just feel like it’s too singularly focused, and doesn’t take into account the build’s ability to focus both torment/confusion as big damage dealers. Still, if the torment doesn’t get cleared, I can see these durations being very deadly.
- I assume Duelist’s Discipline is a typo. Definitely Phantasmal Fury here for iSwordman’s crits! He hits like a truck I imagine.
The only issue I see is that the build seems more reactionary since your clone generation is almost entirely based on blocks rather than summoning them yourself. You also don’t have a lot of range at all, and when you’re playing Vipers, being in melee for too long will surely spell your doom. It’s the reason why I love Staff so much. I can create some distance while still doing big damage from range via Chaos Storm, iWarlock or shatters.
Good theorizing as usual though!
the problem with staff is the losing the blind on chaos armor so ineptitude only proc every 10 sec so only shatter blind and scepter #2 and proc confusion . while MS reduce cd on scepter to 6 and 9 sec for skill 2 and 3 and with alacrity its 4 and 7 sec. so i get more bursty concept with scepter.
regarding range – staff is slow range weapon and thief can easily melee me even if i PR to higher places. while with block with sword, shield and scepter i have more chance
also isword is 1200 range and hit like 3-4k with low cd.
i had some duel against PU condi mesmer and his bleed on me even though he were on stealth were 1-2 stacks only while geomancy especially when you should swap when rdy proc 3 stacks and 1 poison to cover.
i am still playing with ideas
(edited by messiah.1908)
I’m really not seeing this build being effective against any necro that actually knows how to play their class. While normally necros are pretty susceptible to interrupt builds, this build relies on condies, and any decent necro these days is going to be running with ~4 reliable and difficult/impossible to interrupt condition transfers. If they panic and spam skills, they’ll die. Alternatively, they can use a condie transfer and watch you ruin yourself with your own condies…4 times in a row if necessary. Add onto that the stability from reaper shroud and necros should rip you a new one. Extra points if they’ve got the scepter trait, and the returned condies get hilariously long duration (I think, haven’t actually tested that one).
Thieves are going to be very hit or miss. On the one hand, you should pretty much never land an interrupt on them since their rotation is more or less dodge -> autoattack -> repeat. On the other hand, if you manage to get some stacks on them they should die pretty quickly.
Honestly, I see this as mostly a noob-stomping build. It has all the drawbacks of an interrupt build without the advantages of hard lockdown and damage from power block, and without the ability to capitalize on getting interrupts that power builds have. Against a noob, you’ll get a couple of interrupts, stack some pressure, and watch them melt. Against an experienced player with a good build you’ll get an interrupt here or there, and then they’ll calmly cleanse it and keep going. The situation in which you achieve a kill relies 100% on them blowing up on confusion with the help of pressuring from the duelists, and that simply isn’t going to happen against most experienced players.
i agree this build is lacking 1v1 atm. but in group fight where 1 player cannot control 3 or 4 enemies you have the chance to do good
i often cc chain necro while my team just burst him down. sure i did only 10 confusion on him meanwhile. same on thief. i w8 for the right moment and lock him which usually lead to disengage by him unless he stupid to stay around.
but if we only cc i ask myself why not to go power over condition. smart necro transfer my 10 torment 15 confusion to my allies
(edited by messiah.1908)