Guild Wars 2

Exciton.8942:

I don’t see condie shatter become a thing at all.

1v1, they will never be as strong as condie necro. Condie necro counters the entire boon stacking meta and also do well against other condie spec with condie transfer.

Then there is also condie rev. That spec has way better mobility than mesmer. Chasing down whoever he wants with ease. Long resistance uptime also makes them quite tanky against other condie spec.

Condie mesmer may be good against many other specs in dueling situation. But it will not make the class viable as it brings nothing special to the team.

i can agree that necro and rev are strong . necro is more stonger in applying conditions but not bursty conditions while rev has strong burst with torment but nit many conditions
what mesmer has is strong bursty conditions which both prevent action. confusion with activating skills and torment with movement. but this is his weakness. there are no more conditions to proc to cover them much (chaos storm that’s all)

but another thing mesmer bring is interupt abilities which necro and rev lack off. and with more sustain with amulets maybe we will see more condirupter

i agree that mesmer atm gonna be in bad spot. but consider that less bunkery amulets and builds so the dmg we can deliver gonna be higher.
though now thief with dmg buff gonna have comeback but thief is high skill cap which need great map awarness so i think shatter mesmer may be still valueable

also ele may see more sc/f air comeback with dmg buff so as more the meta become zerky one shatter mesmer may still be in it with moa and protal.
also you might see chorno zerker with wells as semi dmg and semi support

but lets hope mesmer will still be in the meta as if helseth right and phantarm we wont see mesmer and ele rather thief/necro/warrior/ranger/guard

rennlc.7346:

CS would absolutely perform better than DA in a P/P build against players who are new enough that they put out less counter-pressure than Nifhel’s duo of NPCs. Based on the game-play in your YouTube videos, this would appear to be your exact situation, Messiah.

we are not talking about the weapon rather the trait lines

p/p as weapon set is tricky to handle
i use it mainly in +1 and decap as 1 unload at the right time can put down any enemy from range
atm with all the block/reflect (mes,engi,ele,guard) its much harder to face them but i do have my moments when my team surprise i manage to come +1 fast kill and already at far decap it

[quote=5931301;TheOneWhoSighs.7513
Which is why I ask.
Who do you consistently beat 1v1?

And whats your strategy for dealing with them?

Honestly curious.[/quote]

as condi shatter i beat
warrior – most
engi – most unless they run
ranger – most unless they bunker
revenant – semi
necro – semi – hard unless he manage to trasfer them back to me
ele – semi hard if he focus on survival
thief – hard if he d/p or s/d and i cant burst him with all the stealth dodges

i start theorythinking and not crafting with ideas
i do some duels with necro and rev and 2v2 to test back again the condi concept
i can say 2v2 the necro die fast with my condi rupter build and he couldnt do kitten
but in team fight my burst dmg become very low due to illusions die too fast in 4v4 and team enemy manage to out heal my dmg

so as for now it seems condi shatter still in the same spot dueler mainly
hope to see power shatter back with less bunkery amulets and celestial.
dont know what scepter will bring to the table
lets w8 and theorythinking

sasoriaka.6348:

Listen here children.

I have done the math (integrals) and here is a rather useful information:

At 200% ferocity, adding 1% critical hit chance will increase on average 0.69% overall damage.

The more precision you have, the less overall damage you will gain from gaining precision.
Example: + 1% critical hit chance at 40% will give more overall damage than + 1% at 75%.

Example of application: superior sigil of accuracy (+ 7% crit chance) has on average 4,2% increased overall damage. Therefore, superior sigil of force (+ 5% damage) is better on average. If you are under 40% critical hit chance, accuracy is better.

Also, the more ferocity you have, the more precision will be valuable.

Other uselful piece of knowledge. At 50% crticial hit chance, adding 1% at ferocity will add 0.30% overall damage.

Conclusion: power > precision >>> ferocity.

the conclusion is already known. the problem is this
DA gives 10% dmg to target with condition and 20% dmg to target below 50% hp
CS gives about 40% crit dmg to target above 50% hp and 30% below 50% hp
now with DA build having in average 77% crit chance and CS having in average 95% crit chance who is doing more dmg in average

i think MC – is gonna be must have after chaos armor nerf. the 20% speed on scepter (get rdy for bug ressing and stomping) mean faster application of AA torment which can be 1-2 stack of torment buff.
our CI will be much faster so 6 confusion stacks wont be hard to hit.

also POM another must trait which reduce cd on illusion skills .
MOF – will be must in condi rupter build which can proc aoe slow if you interrupt few enemies
torch is nice condi cleanse ability but unless they buff the burning stacks dont see any reason to use this over shield which proc more alacrity, slow and block
PU – may be great versus necros
Delay Reaction – very nice trait if you go condirupter
rune of torment – so far my best choise over scavenging and second best nightmare. the condi duration is just too good even in high cleanse environment

but still versus good group pvp condi mesmer does worse versus any other condi build out there . maybe with new amulets we can do better but probably other as well

necro had the same ability to rip boons if they wanted too
you never saw necro taking corrupt boon utility . and if they do it rip 3 boons every 15 sec and signet 2 boons every 24 sec
so you main problem is with scepter 3rd attack which is like every 3 sec
if you let the necro just AA freely dont blame him rather you or your team
if he rip your resistance you can re-apply it and pressure him so he wont rip it again
same as now in fact
as rip boon necro i see so many boons fly around like crazy
so now ele will have condi cleanse every sec with DS till 75% hp which is huge buff i think as it will give them enough time for their heal/utilities to recharge to put them above 75% hp

with necro my best chance was to hit him hard to blink away before he could transfer them back
but in team fight he can just retarget other ally and trasfer it to them

so basically unless i manage to proc some low conditions before i burst him full torment confusion my team will hate me…
but its the case for every other condi class facing necro

i was also got hit with probably the same build or concept
my problem was not in 1v1 him as its easy to avoid dmg rather in group fight where you being occupied in some 1v2 and than he comes to finish the job at easy mode and your team can do anything to help but always focusing him

imagine what would happen if p/p thief from 1200 range just spam unload on you freely

doing above 10k dmg with 1 hit should be forbidden

Curunen.8729:

Whatever the case, Scepter will be mandatory.

I’ve got away using Sword/Torch and Staff up till now relying heavily on shatters for applying the condis, but things like the energy sigil change, alacrity nerf and chaos armour blind loss as well as scepter/MS buffs will force me to go Scepter.

Probably going to go Inspiration/Illusions/Chrono with the Mercenary Amulet, Scepter/something and Staff. Inspiration to have a chance at fending off the necros instead of melting when seeing one.

Sad because I liked the acrobatic stunts of both ileap, phase retreat, energy sigil and DE together, but that’s all in the bin now.

the problem with condi shatter is that to get condi burst you need shatters, but to cleanse condi of you . you need shatters. and you cant play both defense and offense unless you save some shatters for it and if you save them you are not bursty anymore.
unless you go fo null field with resistance and the healing cleanse

no crit dmg so why going thief at all?

so with the new scepter speed buff 20% and the new runes (power,condi, vit, tough)
along side choas armor nerf (weakness instead of blind)
and less other sustain/bunker runes
would you reconsider a comeback to condishatter builds?

illu/chaos/chrono – ci condirupt
illu/dom/chrono – pb condirupt
illu/due/chrono – de/mis condishatter

dont forget the chaos armor nerf to blind (confusion)
so less proc of stacking confusion
condi mesmer will get nice amulet (power,condi, vit, armor) so more sustain
but will be still useless versus ds ele with 75% hp threshold.
we just cant burst fast enough constantly and maybe will see more pu condi mesmer (more 1v1 build) as illusions will proc every sec our condi but it will take too long
and below 75% hp the ele will have enough time to use his healing and get recharge

so…. we will hear qq still probably

core mesmer build are gone

condi – mtd back to 2 stacks of torment. even if you go with chorno line you will loss either inspiration (condi cleanse) or chaos (sustain) or dueling (DE and blind) . so basic condi mesmer can be ill,due,chron/insp/chaos

power mes – more dmg to AA 5-10% gs and sw

imporve torch dmg and condi

Kicast.1459:

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Kicast.1459:

The dragonhunter elite specialization has proven to have a very solid impact in many areas of the game……

WUT ????

Are you serious ?
Which areas ? Puzzle jump ? Trading ?

Go back to your cave, Dragonhunter as been used (and dominating) in SPVP at least since HoT launch even with the nerfs it got.

I am affraid you are complete ignorant at best. Currently there are three professions not played at all in tournaments: warriors,thieves and guardians.
Of course you are maybe talking about low level pvp..but here dominating is possible with everything.
Maybe it is time for you to go out of your cave and see real world.

lets be little bit more accurate

low mid lvl – no warrior , low thief, low power mes, low guard, no condi build beside necro and rev (power rev doing comeback)

high tier – no warrior, no thief, no power mes, no guard, no condi build beside rev (used to)

Gewd.8125:

The main reason why mesmer is imbalanced right now is because of this:

Nearly unstoppable and very short cd quickness + stability stomps/resses. This is essentially equivalent to having your opponents waste all their best skills and then healing your team mate for 8000 hp.

The only other class that can do this is rev but they are not as durable and are very susceptible to getting cleaved before they finish.

And the 2nd reason is double 3 second PULSING aoe stun.

Honestly continuum split should never have existed. I don’t know what anet was thinking.

Portal is also a bit imbalanced too, it forces someone to sit at an empty point.

have you tried to play bunker guard with mercy rune or suport rev with those rune ? you will have 30% res speed…. it wont solve a thing as ppl will probably will used those

also i have never encounter much problem with wells as i used my stun break or time my dodges when needed or stability to make the mesmer used his CS and elite skills

also portal just watch the map or ask you team to give you location of enemies to decide if to leave to point

Vornollo.5182:

Counter to this build: AoE & Properly timed interrupts. Anyone who knows Vaults Evadeframe will be able to completely shut you down. If that person is also capable of rotating between their close/mid, you’re useless to your team in al ways possible.

doesnt AoE & Properly timed interrupts will destroy any thief build ? d/p has stealth so it much worst as he will loss the cap….
Anyone who knows PB +HS use frame will be able to completely shut you down

so … again thief is in a bad spot atm . thus this argue is not about dp or staff rather by build

and to sum it up

i dont think there is must choise here as if it were it would push anet and player to dump CS or the nerf DA (or maybe now to buff CS)
DA gives more control with immobilize, weakness, poison and executioner
CS gives more crit dmg and fury
if i am a team player with staff and my team has necro (so weakness and poison) CS will be better. if my team lack them and immobilize than DA is needed more

omgdracula.6345:

The thing with staff is vault is the most kittening predictable skill to see coming. The mobility you get from D/P along with easy blind, stealth from powder, headshot, along with shadow shot your target will have a hard time shaking you.

Staff is not bad by any means, but it is a lot easier to predict than D/P. IMHO

staff is not dp

dp – single target mainly, raoming… take out the weak and fast
staff – more team fight 2v2, 3v3 etc.. do aoe dmg when needed help to burst enemies down while pressure the other

hard to compare like f16 f18 f35 etc..

Impact.2780:

messiah.1908:

@Impact.2780: also recheck you fury uptime assumption.

That’s not the full assumption. Also to consider is stealing fury with bountiful theft, being granted fury by allies that can, when they can, and that your boons are equally subjected to removal/corruption by necromancers, revenants, other thieves, and – since I’ve seen more of them lately – shatter mesmers.

So many sources, so many variables, I deem it close enough to the same up-time that I set them both to 100%. Why 100% and not the likely lower value for both? Because I’m making a point, and CS is stronger the more crit chance it has, so I thought it fitting to give it the advantage in the comparison in an attempt to make my argument stronger when DA still came out on top.

you are absolutely right
giving the same crit chance even without calculating will favor DA over CS as DA buff you direct dmg while CS buff you crit dmg
also you dont need calculate bonus dmg from other trait line as they are the same
you forget to mention poison dmg and less healing to favor the DA over CS
also sometime steal is bug or dodged so no dmg as well

in real fight you cant maintain perma fury with DA. you get it when you steal 10 sec and when you hit with rune 25% chance 10 sec every 30 sec
so unless you w8ing to both to recharge you have 50% time fury thus i think you should take 77% crit chance and not 86%.
and if you w8ing it to recharge even if DA does more dmg you Sdps getting lower as you dont attack or do low dmg

while with CS even if you’ve been rip the fury with NQ is up easily so you can maintain it thus having 100% crit chance more easy

regarding crit dmg 218% is the max which shown and there is 10% which is not shown but is factored (3rd minor trait)

all i can say i do more dmg with CS than DA in average. sure if i am lucky or w8ing for steal recharge DA will do more short burst but staff is not like dp set as you dont have stealth so you must pressure all time

@Impact.2780: also recheck you fury uptime assumption.
DA wont have perma fury while CS will thus leaving you with less crit chance
unless you assuming using mug at the beginning and getting hit which proc the rune while not make you play defensively as thief dont like to be hit.

so crit chance with DA will be 68% – 86% (put average 77%) while with CS it will be 93% – 100% (put average 96%)

now add to it the sigil dmg on crit and you might see more difference

i agree if all hits were crit than DA>CS but in real life they arent at all (unless you lucky)

also i think you forget to calculate ferocious strike 10% crit dmg as it doesnt shown in the panel log. same as not the 100% crit chance.

you were right regarding weakness and also forget to factor the protection boon

all i can say if you going for sustain dmg mainly with AA like d/p and hs go DA
but if you aiming for fast burst kill with 1-2 shot with vault and bound go for CS as you need them to crit when needed

i hate when i vault in mid and my aoe attack didnt crit while some enemies had protection and i lost 5 ini. where if i had 100% crit chance i could still do better dmg

sure weakness is a pain (ranger, necro mainly)

Spartacus.5243:

messiah.1908:

Spartacus.5243:

Urejt.5648:

messiah.1908:

i also run CS 1,2,1 which give me perma fury and 86% crit chance and 230% crit dmg with rune of the rage with nice 5% more dmg

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lCFOhlOBGmCkmildCbeB+ArgeThowVYLAUbaTA-TJBFABiXGAgHAgAXAAb2fAA

but i miss the swiftness from UC

sometimes i take fist fury and if timed right after steal and elite use FF usually finished the job and great with team coordinated assault

also regarding debate which trait line is better

CS is a win versus DA regarding dmg , but DA got nice poison and weakness and immobilize (which every class got some sort of immunity these days)

I agree with immob trait being useless these times. DA not worth it. Some poison and weakness is also usless due to perma resistance. Da give bonus dmg only when below 50% which is very rare.

funny how there is only 2 brahs itt that get it.

cs gives more crit dmg about 30% more . so with 86% crit chance its like 25% more direct dmg . also you gain 10% crit dmg when your enemy hp above 50% and with NQ give you about 19% crit dmg so you get about 38% direct dmg (86%*50%)

DA give 20% more dmg if you enemy below 50% hp so you have to work it out , and 10% if your enemy got condi which is easy.
rage rune give 5% if you got fury (and you got perma fury)

so it total cs +rage rune yield the best dmg output

test it on golem and friend
vault dmg was higher above 50% hp about 16%, and below 50% was 10%

although i never got 1m dmg

uwotm8 you speak as if im argueing against CS. my last post i said finally there is someone that gets what im talking about.. Now convince the rest of these sad kents itt. they dont want to be believe CS is better only cuz im advertising it. they got xbosed.

i know you agreed i can read. i just gave explanation

Spartacus.5243:

Urejt.5648:

messiah.1908:

i also run CS 1,2,1 which give me perma fury and 86% crit chance and 230% crit dmg with rune of the rage with nice 5% more dmg

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lCFOhlOBGmCkmildCbeB+ArgeThowVYLAUbaTA-TJBFABiXGAgHAgAXAAb2fAA

but i miss the swiftness from UC

sometimes i take fist fury and if timed right after steal and elite use FF usually finished the job and great with team coordinated assault

also regarding debate which trait line is better

CS is a win versus DA regarding dmg , but DA got nice poison and weakness and immobilize (which every class got some sort of immunity these days)

I agree with immob trait being useless these times. DA not worth it. Some poison and weakness is also usless due to perma resistance. Da give bonus dmg only when below 50% which is very rare.

funny how there is only 2 brahs itt that get it.

cs gives more crit dmg about 30% more . so with 86% crit chance its like 25% more direct dmg . also you gain 10% crit dmg when your enemy hp above 50% and with NQ give you about 19% crit dmg so you get about 38% direct dmg (86%*50%)

DA give 20% more dmg if you enemy below 50% hp so you have to work it out , and 10% if your enemy got condi which is easy.
rage rune give 5% if you got fury (and you got perma fury)

so it total cs +rage rune yield the best dmg output

test it on golem and friend
vault dmg was higher above 50% hp about 16%, and below 50% was 10%

although i never got 1m dmg

i also run CS 1,2,1 which give me perma fury and 86% crit chance and 230% crit dmg with rune of the rage with nice 5% more dmg

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lCFOhlOBGmCkmildCbeB+ArgeThowVYLAUbaTA-TJBFABiXGAgHAgAXAAb2fAA

but i miss the swiftness from UC

sometimes i take fist fury and if timed right after steal and elite use FF usually finished the job and great with team coordinated assault

also regarding debate which trait line is better

CS is a win versus DA regarding dmg , but DA got nice poison and weakness and immobilize (which every class got some sort of immunity these days)

Armaelus.6120:

I apologize in advance if you do not understand what I say (french Inside…!)

I think that one of the main problem of the thief, it’s his initiative. Other classes have cooldown on their weapon’skills. When they use all their cooldowns with a weapon, they can switch to a new weapon and continue to launch news attacks (news cooldowns).

Why do not create a similar system with our initiatives’s bar : I mean creating a specific or independent bar of initiatives, for each set of weapons used by the thief.
It would allow the thief to consume his initiatives and then, when he switchs a new weapon, he obtains a new full bar of initiatives. Meanwhile the first bar filled normally until he decides to use it again.

In the reality of the game, the thief uses 12 (or 15) points of initiative to manage two sets of weapons. If at least we had capacities allowing to accelerate this regen, but we haven’t it anymore. At the beginning of the game, we had a capacity which allowed us to get back a point of initiative on criticals strikes. Why not to put back it again ?

PS : Sorry for using translator ! xD

you know there is a trait which when you switch weapon you gain 3 ini, when you steal 2 ini, when you evade 1 ini, and a signet which refill you ini bit sooner

guys calm .only cd on trap daze thats all

guys stop assuming. just learn from past buff.
remember AA pistol buff? no…
this is what it will be

:D

really so we gonna see more 1111111 pressing that is all?!
what about p/p range and dmg buff
what about condi build buff

we need options not the same dp boring meta with little but higher dmg the overcome the block block block, evade evade evade , invu invu invu

so now we have to wait untill our enemy use his dodge and utilitis to burst him down without help from his friends . so again 1v1 all over and no team gameplay

boring

my thoughts:

ele – no diamond skin rather condi cleanse probably with cd. but more dmg. so sc/f burst 100-0 doing bomback

mes – alacrity nerf from 0.66 to 0.33. shield will the the only weapon without a trait of cd reduction. scepter get increase duration on torment. wow . no mtd buff so no condishatter unless scepter #3 will do 12 confusion stacks. #2 10 torment, #1 twice the stacks . we dont need duration we need burst condi dmg.

engi – the only class they dont know what to do with. probably reduce its healing effectiveness and protection but nothing else

guard – traps no longer daze or cd on the daze of 10 sec nothing else

necro – will get movement trait i guess

thief – more AA pressing 1111111 nice anet. what about pistol and condi builds?

warrior – full rework as many players ditched them so the will enter the meta with ease with dmg buff and sustain untill ppl will QQ again

so my predictions
qq on ele burst dmg
qq on warrior sustain (the new scarper )
qq on thief with still less sustainability but will be great in 1v1 till ppl will qq about it
qq on mesmer – no fast res, no fast stomp no alacrity so we dont need them as support in pvp . we will see comeback to power shatter for the elite players

good job man
i stop playing the game in emerald division (kinda solo strike) and when i pop up solo to duo the match is against diamond and ruby

you did a lot of dmg but it means the enemy team manage to out heal you thus you did too much dmg and getting low kills

its like the enemy hp is like 20k you did 19k and he heal himself to full. than you did again 19 k dmg and he heal himself again to full and than you did again 20k dmg and killed him so you did 58k dmg instead to manage to do just 20 and get the same result

does it mean you did ok?!

we’ll never know only you knows

James Spades.4720:

Condi mesmer is strong in pvp but almost useless in pve so we’ve been in the wong side all this time.

what????
strong in pvp you mean hot join?!
atm no one use it in serious pvp match (maybe me)

Dark Night.5601:

messiah.1908:

my best condi build which works wonder (for me)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAreWnknBVohlqBmpBEgilnj6sACgDDdxynDoeQP0FF-TZRHABfXGAgTAgAHCAh2fIgnAAA

if i up against necros team (more than 1 necro) i will run this . the duration works great as i just hit and run. so their only way to cleanse is with their heal skill (if its not signet). so they cant control the point. so if i decap than job done.

if i up against 2 eles i will take viper or carrion to break their 90% hp (although i was able with the build above to do so)

if i up against zerk team i will take rabid amulet

signet of midnight is optional and can be changed to portal, decoy, well, MI etc…

i will try to put a tutorial with it

also consider its for mid lvl fights and your team must know you run condi

Question…..would this also be effective in WvW for roaming? I’ve played zerk shatter for a very long time while it can be effective, I think perhaps condi might be better with the current meta. Thoughts?

wow its been ages since i went into wvw. maybe dire gear can be better with sustain but you wont be able to kill eles. full viper can be dangerous and carrion can work
you can have 100% condi duration with food so you can take something else instead of som.

my best condi build which works wonder (for me)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAreWnknBVohlqBmpBEgilnj6sACgDDdxynDoeQP0FF-TZRHABfXGAgTAgAHCAh2fIgnAAA

if i up against necros team (more than 1 necro) i will run this . the duration works great as i just hit and run. so their only way to cleanse is with their heal skill (if its not signet). so they cant control the point. so if i decap than job done.

if i up against 2 eles i will take viper or carrion to break their 90% hp (although i was able with the build above to do so)

if i up against zerk team i will take rabid amulet

signet of midnight is optional and can be changed to portal, decoy, well, MI etc…

i will try to put a tutorial with it

also consider its for mid lvl fights and your team must know you run condi

with all the block, aegis around the scepter can be problematic as your enemy can block and an enemy clone will created. might be funny.

i dont see any problem with the scepter speed attack including the last chain. its not that we stick with only the AA and also our main source of condition dmg is via illusions which not like any other class who relay on thier on attack to hit. we relay on creating a clones (no blocked no blind no evade), than the clone survive much time to attack and again no block, no blind, no evade. so we have to be twice lucky to get the dmg done or the condition so why cant we be more faster than others.

so if anet wants us to be more shattery give us the option to do so effectively

with the right group composition you can do ok.

sure with other class you can do the same and much easier but thief mobility is priceless

you can rotate the map and make 1 enemy defender to stay and hold the point while you +1 elsewhere .
you can +1 fights and come back to support with fast burst while fast going decap if the fight getting even.

yes its hard knock life for us but we will survive…

with persistence of memory with chronophantasm gets you 2 sec cd so with 2 i avenger shatter you get 4 sec and alacrity than you shatter them again for another 4 sec and alacrity
so total 8 +3 sec cd reduction and another 8 sec from the alacrity gain from the phantasm if they bounce to you.
the skill is on 24 cd so you get it to 5 sec while in between you can use scepter to block and use 2 evades if needed and i will be ready for use in no time.
this is assuming your enemy is stupid to hit you while you block him. if he stop attacking you you wont get this cd reduction

seem like 1v1 build like any condi mesmer build
seeing you using the sc/sh much more than gs make me think why dont you use more staff with great aoe and PR

same as any condi base build you couldnt hurt the DS ele without using moa…. so even with good power its still hard to lower his hp below 90%

put more group play vid 3v3, 2v2, 2v3, 4v4, 3v4….

if you have enough time to see and measure how many stacks you have before sharing than GG

for me at the beginning of the fight i try to buff my might, protection, regen, fury stability and share them. when using TW i wait for it to finished and than share to prolong the duration on my team mates

i dont try to use woe/tw/tot all together rather one after the another to prolong its duration

totally not agree with the op

why?

1. top players stream and share their builds
2. esl fight are published and the players builds
3. meta battle just publish the top tier player builds and thats it

for example

i post way back condi shatter – the build got always rejected by the admins while some ppl like it. finanly after several top player test it and play it than only than it became good
also i post a build with boons sharing variation before the expansion and after helseth play it only than it became meta. while from the expansion beta beginning mesmer forum was full with bunker support builds ideas.

so metabattle site didnt do anything with ppl playing the top tier player meta builds

everybody want to be ….

if you wanna have diversity than give more options and counter to the current meta.

Velimere.7685:

messiah.1908:

who to kill a chronobunker?
just dont
if he alone contest a point he cant support his team. so take 1 ally to have eyes on him like rev or thief (class with good mobility) – fight 4v5 on other point if the mesmer leaves than fast decap/cap freely
also 1 person should pressure him even if he cant kill him it cant ruine his shatter or rotations. if he use wop great cant contest
if the point uncontested great for you as he cant bunker the point on his terms (but he can use more freely wop for his team)

This gave me a good laugh. Bunker Mesmers take Portal in order to protect points while matching numbers across the map or to force the other team to effectively fight 4v5 across the map instead.

Good luck doing this to a good Bunker Mesmer when he has a skill with the sole purpose of doing it to you way easier and faster instead.

than check your team dmg and sustain. as lets say thief try to decap and mesmer now fight you 4v5 mid. as long as your team burst is fast and good you will be manage to down in 3 sec anyone. now the mesmer need to think should i port back to contest or res.

as you see the problem is not with mesmer or portal. again 2/3 of bunker mesmer trait line was before HOT. only wells and chrono trait line with just alacrity came. if its make bunker mes op than it should make power mes op or condi mes op . and it doesnt!.
the problem ppl still dont learn how to rotate and focus fire fast.
when oyu had bunker guard sitting on point you just ignore it . you could see power mes with portal port him to other point and didnt complain.

all i am saying now the problem is not with mesmer. rather with other class who can do dmg and sustain and support like ele, engi and druid (little bit) while full dmg dealer cant handle them like thief, power mes, etc…
when you see more balance in the power/sustain creep you will see more diversity and less bunkering a point

how to kill a chronobunker?
just dont
if he alone contest a point he cant support his team. so take 1 ally to have eyes on him like rev or thief (class with good mobility) – fight 4v5 on other point if the mesmer leaves than fast decap/cap freely
also 1 person should pressure him even if he cant kill him it cant ruine his shatter or rotations. if he use wop great cant contest
if the point uncontested great for you as he cant bunker the point on his terms (but he can use more freely wop for his team)

my team does fast focus rotation. we pressure the support (ele or mesmer) than only 1 still focus them. the other focus the dmg dealer which usually leave his down or run away as the support class cant do kitten. if the support mamange to heal/clease or res we pressyre the bunker again and he will die as he used all his utilities/skills
if done fast and right you will win

also as bunker mes i was down 1v1 versus good shatter mesmer. he knew what i am going to use and manage to kill me. so i back to power shatter and its doable to kill bunker mesmer 1v1 if they trying to hold the point.

StickerHappy.8052:

Jelzouki.4128:

Bunkering shouldn’t be available through invulnerability, that includes evades.

There is no counterplay to invulnerability, especially with such abundant alacrity application.

A diamond skin ele, or a bunker gaurd (rip) are what bunker should be. There is counterplay.

I facepalmed when i read this.

Invun = Does not contribute to point capping.

Reduced block duration too.

And you guys are still whining?

HOW?

because they try to 1v1 it while at the same time never play it to learn how to counter play it

power mesmer has better chance to win atm versus bunker mes 1v1. also a good thief or any fast condi spamm class if they learn the mesmer rotation.

ppl seem to want mesmer out of the support meta and left out with guard and staff ele (btw staff ele become in some way better than support mesmer)

we shall see what anet think in 30 days

thief can never be bunker without boons. protection and stability mainly

dodge and evade out of point can cost you contesting the point.

also just bunker without support is useless . so thief cannot cleanse or heal his team mates and cannot give boons etc..

the problem with ele is not the fact that they cant go with burst build (100-0 in 1 sec if used right). the real problem is the fact that they can cleanse and heal party thus the party needs them to heal and cleanse so they go sustain.
if other party class can heal and cleanse the same or better you might see more zerker builds.
for example bunker mesmer – build diversity you say. so ppl QQ. thus you still see sustain/suport ele.
ele went with celestial with burning so dmg diversity but ppl QQ .

so if you give 1 class some kind of diversity it hurts the other classes as well. also buffing other for more blocks and sustain hurst the zerker meta . more condi cleasne, resistance or immunity hurts the condi class

so we left with bunker sustain meta

you saw the effect of condi short meta. so many QQ without rethinking lets go with more cleasne and counter ….

if i see the enemy team got a thief we just split 2-3-0
the 1 on close watching for mid also so if 4 on mid he goes to help and if thief come to close he come for 2v1 so the thief is running back again to mid so he just watching him
if 5 on mid so 1 mid push far to hold 2 points close and far so the enemy split again and we back to mid
so thief cannot decap. and if he manage to do so it means his team got wiped probably as he hardly manage to help them

nice job man!

do it for engi too

this is what i am using

massive illusion bomb shatter so F1-F2-F3 with constant 3 illusions up

carrion to handle the ds ele and null field both to remove boons and handle necros transfer

its good for soloq and low mid tier

you got stability and enough condi cleanse with null field and resistance so take durability