Guild Wars 2

Impact.2780:

messiah.1908:

i will ask again why take DA over CS
you loss improvisation but get perma fury and about 30% – 41% more dmg
so with extra dmg you can take with DD weakening strike and escapist absolution

1) DA has great synergy with Trickery, while CS doesn’t.
2) DA has a damage modifier regardless of health thresholds, Improvisation is good utility, Panic Strikes can secure a kill, and Mug is of course more damage and survivability. CS only offers better damage than DA while a target is above 50%.
3) If you get fury from other sources, the effectiveness of CS is reduced since permanent fury is a large portion of the damage increase it offers.
4) If more damage is what you want, you’ll get it by taking Executioner in DA over Improvisation. Not only will your damage be better than had you taken CS, but your best damage will land on targets under 50% health as opposed to above, helping you down them.

who DA synergy with trickery?
CS does 10% more dmg when you target is above 50%, practice tolerance gives 12% more dmg when crit and no quater gives 17% more dmg when crit

DA executioner gives 20% when target is below 50% and you have 10% more dmg when target is with condition.
mug does okish dmg every 20 sec and healing

with the build above you dont have much fury only from other allies.

after testing the dmg is much higher with CS while i am losing immobilize which most classes got some way to reduced (dash thieves), necro 33-66% reduced duration, warrior immunity etc…

also the loss of swiftness how is it feel in the role of decap rotate the map faster?

i will ask again why take DA over CS
you loss improvisation but get perma fury and about 30% – 41% more dmg
so with extra dmg you can take with DD weakening strike and escapist absolution

charchar.2149:

This build is using staff 90 percent of the time since the build focuses on maximizing staff mark damage. The build focuses in on taking points and lots of aoe damage to soften up targets. You are actually ok at zero life force with this build because most of your damage is front loaded instead of back loaded like a spite build.

staff mark dmg is not so good . staff is more support than dmg

didnt get what is front loaded dmg with staff?

Dristig.9678:

I’d love to see some video or something. I’m finding against low MMR people almost anything works on Reaper. At higher levels you get focused and CCed in coordination and except for Flesh Worm I don’t see any counters for that?

necro if focused dont have much. no block, no evade, no immunity, beside life force and this is why at the beginning of the fight you are so vulnerable thus your team need to support you

i like the staff alot
but i have problem with it . i need good group as staff is more team orietnted .

i find dash very good against the chilling necro as only i withraw can screw you after used if you chill again with so many applications.

but still i think thief role is not to fight in balanced fight rather +1 and decap so the weapon you use is not that much important

what i find funny is the fact i have more abilities now with p/p and stealth bound especialy versus DH
but with all the cc around and blocking thief life is just hard . too hard that 1-2 dodges didnt make it better….

i would love to see you in 3v3, 2v2 4,4 situation with staff and not jst +1 and decap to see if i can do more things to my group versus other class and build

what is your role in a team?
with reaper its best to be in team fight 3v3 mostly and not 1v1 or 1v2
also with lost of cc now you can be perma stun/daze and lock down easily with low life force and armor so especialy at the begging of each fight with 0 life force you are so vulnerable.
the GS AA is so slow i hardly hit anything
thieves with dash are immune to your chill cripple (i have fought few of them and its hard with GS )

the shout should be without precast of 0.5 sec. its a shout ….
other than that great skill

dash – remove 3 condition which are most hated by thief
trick withraw and RFI – will remove those 3 and 2 more if traited
stealth SA – will remove dmg conditions
SS – remove 3 condition
sword#2 remove 1 condition can be spammble

thief got less massive condition cleanse but can clean with a lot of skills
so guard may cleanse every 40 sec with 2 skills F2 and utility but thats it usually

i like CS as the dmg is much higher and the perma fury is great also.
DA gives 20% more dmg when target is below 50% and 10% more dmg when the target has a condition
CS gives more fury so more crit chance and more crit dmg and more 10% dmg when your target is above 50% which can sum up to 41% dmg when your target is above 50% and 31% when your target is below 50% hp
i will loss panic strike and mug evey 20 sec but will do more dmg over all
and if traited improvision that a lot more of dmg with CS

i like the reaper so far in pvp

my problem mainly is i start with zero life force which make me vulnerable for 30 sec till i bring it up.
so with every fight the enemy team try to lock me down fast. also my team do the same mostly.
so my tactic is to stay range so if the enemy push me i will get help from 1 ally while we can cap the point if the enemies leave it or my allies do the same and push to one enemy.
what i love about the reaper is the great cc chian you can do if the enemy dont have stability on them. as i take power build i dont have boon rip signet (which atm i think is useless as boons fly around like crazy so ripping one just brings 3 new ones)

also my dmg especialy from melee is very good so unless i an out numbered i can do fine

i have a unique build as i find cele with low dmg and maraduer too squishy stm with the power crip meta .

i also like the condi reaper but i think after playing it and see ppl in the esl play it abit its too low dmg as scepter is slow weapon and if you being target its hard to play offensive not like dagger or staff or even GS.

to sum it up my team still think wether the necro is viable atm or can be replaced by other class. we dont know yet but imo with good combo necro is good bruiser on a point where there is 3v3 etc…

reaper counter DH
the problem is when you get 2 DH and you out of stability or endurance and stun break and life force…. ALL together

what i love with DH is the fact they like to sit in their traps so i just sit with them in RS and cc,chill,vulnerability, poison, and high dmg AA to death in 3 sec

but with other class i never try it. DH preety strong even form range with LB . the best range AA dmg (not dps)

Ghotistyx.6942:

Public Service Announcement:

• You don’t have to have Ricochet to be a Gunslinger
• P/P is currently viable and has diversity
• Even if you don’t think p/p is a viable set, there are changes on the way. The only way things get better is if they’re improved. With enough improvements, suddenly it becomes good. Who would’ve thought?
• I can’t really say that I’ve seen anyone on these forums who actually understands what “preserving the purity of pistol” actually means. Chances are it’s best not to open that can of worms.

p/p set works for me in low ranked tier against zerk classes like mesmer/necro/guards/thief. i dont have to be melee range, i have stealth so i can be sneaky, and pressure the enemy for few seconds . but again seems that revenant took our place

Zaerah.1630:

It is not going to come back, dev already stated something along the lines “it hurts the purity of the weapon set” and it wasn’t even that good.

Also to the post on top of me, 3 sec immob on thief? that can spam it like 5 times in a row? that would be the definition of absurd

if spammed you will left without initiative doing no dmg .

also consider lots of class have reduce immobilize duration with trait, runes so 1 sec immobilize is in fact 0

they could just change acro line to be more range friendly
like

1. do more dmg from range above 500 do 5%, above 800 do 10%, above 1100 do 15%
2. pistol is now 1200 range
3. ricochet is back (or at least be an inherent pistol mechanism)
4. get back 2 initiative when evade and not 1

and for skills:
5. unload apply vulnerability 1 stack for each attack so total of 8
6. body shot immobilize for 3 sec (common everyone got nice immobilize duration) and put weakness instead of vulnerability
7. sneak attack puts 5 stacks of torment and not bleed as i want my enemy to stand far and not moving at me

this is the build i am using
both power and condition
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6kjGozGs5GwdTgeTs8LYxHxnYVkaL8FGWQJtAwHA-TJhHABCcIA6uMAAPBgz2fAA
my chill can do 700-990 dps
poison on point is amazing with burning combine with nice 1-2k direct dmg
you can swap to dagger for more melee dmg

when i click play nothing happened suddenly
also with group they cant click it either unless i leave the group

why?

gg nice game play
but dont you think anet need to consider thief to play another role as well beside +1
most of you games you were losing

i wish for some soldier cc role with staff

Straegen.2938:

messiah.1908:

can ppl who do tpvp group play comment on it. it seems like you talk in duel perspective

Paired with shortbow the build traverses distance faster than any class, the Staff has excellent AoE (for a thief) and more usable finishers than other weapon sets.

While it isn’t as potent at holding a point as many other classes it is the best build for that work in the thief class. Thieves do not synergize well with other builds aside from damage output but this is about as close as it gets.

agree with DD trait which i make me move around to the map like crazy
but regarding dmg and finisher its hard atm cause if i vault on the point i risking to get cleavse traps well dmg
i often see the sb working and p/p more than my melee weapons unless its a finishing blow

i also like the staff but i need more group support than d/p which got stealth

Terimac.5871:

messiah.1908:

atm its just weakness which reduce dmg by 50% when attack is negated. also cannot crit

So weakness is a pretty nice condi?

for thieves weakness is awesome
Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%. 50% of hits are Glancing Blows (50% damage).

can ppl who do tpvp group play comment on it. it seems like you talk in duel perspective

atm its just weakness which reduce dmg by 50% when attack is negated. also cannot crit

BFMV.3198:

Dude if you are having trouble on staff you are doing it wrong. I can beat most classes using it, it is really solid in pvp.

I am sorry but I disagree with the skill 4 having a smoke field. This is not a stealth weaponset, it is an evade weaponset. Read my changes to see how staff should be done.

1. Remove the evade from skill 3 and add it to Weakening charge. Weakening charge having the evade instead would make a lot more sense, especially since it is quite a slow skill.
2. Speed up the animation of Weakening charge and decrease its aftercast
3. Thieves do not have access to stuns apart from pistol whip. A staff seems like the perfect place to give us this. Remove staff 3 and exchange it with a charge stun of 600 range.
“Charge forward with your staff and deliver a crushing blow to sun your foe”
This gives us a chance to land vaults and weakening charge.
4. I actually really like skill 4, it fires fast, does decent damage and blinds. I have seen some suggestions for a smoke field but for once I disagree with this as this weaponset does not need stealth, and it would just detract from its main use.
I saw a suggestion for a “Smoke cloud” which seems like a great idea.
“Create a cloud of smoke for the caster to hide within, evading and becoming immune to incoming conditions”.
Duration: 1.5s
Radius. Radius: 240
This allows us to deal with conditions and gives us a decent way to mitigate damage with the blind.

probably you playing hot join and not full group pvp
the evades on vault also seem bug as i can get stun/daze mid air and not finished my animation in 0.5 sec evade frame time
also every thief evade skill in slot on number #3 skill slot
every weapon set which is useful in pvp has stealth ability d/p and s/d
both s/p and p/p are not useful . i wonder why

hi guys
after testing the staff here is my comments on it in pvp area

AA skills
1. dmg need to be increased a bit like the sword at least so 30% more base dmg
2. whirl finisher is nice but hardly useable in team fight as thief cannot handle the hit
3. the last attack PS seems to delay any other skill you want to use for short duration
4. HS with no stealth beside utilities is useless, trapper rune and traps doesnt work as you loss to much dmg and defense abilities. the idea is nice but staff need some stealth combos . instead of KD i would use it as KB
5. the vulnerability should be 1 in each attack and not 4 in the last attack

WC
1. 450 range is not correct. seem like 350 atm as from 450 range i never hit the enemy
2. weakness need to be 3 sec
3. 3 attacks hardly ever happens so reduce the number to 2 attacks and increase the dmg by 33%

DA
1. needs more dmg 10%
2. evade range should be 450

DS
1. range of 600 seems to be like 500 as i never hit from 600 range
2. should put also smoke field at target location for 4 sec (gives stealth ability with bound or vault
3. dmg is very low but if smoke field will be available than its ok
4. if not smoke field than KD aoe with 5 initiatives. than thief could be very useful i CC area and not just zerk dmg moving the whole map area

Vault
1. ok so far

overall atm its hard weapon in pvp with no inherent stealth ability so atm seems like pve weapon set

I think it was chill rune maybe which can do that dmg
Try it maybe

Kolly.9872:

there’s no way for a thief to beat the current meta DH trap build. A good thief can survive and not die and even keep fighting for several minutes, but if the DH is not a completely brainless player, he won’t ever die.

bad thing is that you can say it for engi, ele,ranger,necro,warrior

we cant kill them fast enough like we used to and even if we can help comes ….

i usually try to give good words BUT ….

this build and gameplay only inhence thief weakness

you only manage to do good when it was 3v1 or 3v2. you couldnt decap points lamost and ranger just pushed you with no effort off point.
you hardly went for far/close to decap with all the grat mobility and mesmer pressure you so easily
i tried to calculet your dps during fight and you mainly dmg was on down foes with unload and while in fight you mainly disengage and dodge alot as you couldnt stand the aoe pressure of necro /mesmer
in 3v2 on mid you wasted your elite to finish instead to let in bleed and hope the enemy will try to res for easy cleave with daggers
and than later instwad to pressure in 3v2 the mesmer who came you pressure the necro who was in RS and mesmer freely did all the dmg ending in down ally

so probably its not you rather thief atm are really weak if their team composition and ability is not high to carry you
or
you play should be decap /cap free point

i tried to do also tutorial vid on staff which ended up with only 70k dmg gameplay but i was first rank cause all of the decap/cap points i did like crazy – thief life atm

also i would take bound with p/p – as d/p combo is too much obvius atm this is why you hardly hit the mesmer with bs

i play both thief and guard

yes its hard for thieves to win against any guard builds especially in group fight

first – dodge on the traps if you know where are they
second – there is a short cd of animation so when you notice it dodge
third – kite him

p/p set is good actualy (i use bound with bp) so blind and unload put s him on defense mode

but careful with melee attack as his traps can be on 16 sec cd so get rdy….

i hardly died in 1v1 also as i know when to disengage but in team fight my eyes now go to the guard and not only the thief/mesmer

azmodey.4576:

I have tested SA, DD, Tr to get a taste of the new weapon and traits
Each 20 secs I have KD, in between, I do damage with staff 2 and bound dodge.
it is not bad but not great and boring !
Also it was the more efficient for me.

so you take SA and lost your dmg trait like DA or CS just to have stealth every 20 sec for just 1 kd which can blocked evade?!

i dont really know if ppl turn this thread to troll but imo

1. in pvp thieves just running from place to place hoping to decap a point which is FREE
2. its hard for the mto do 1v1 not because they cant rather it will take them too long and will help surly come while they cant decap the point
3. thier dmg is par with others atm thus why no to reroll
4. they cant stand on point with all the aoe around
5. they cant do good with bad group while other can do good with bad group (not winning but accoumplish the goals of the class and build)
6. yes they can do noce short burst but will have to disengage thus dropping down the dps while other may (but not) do lower dmg but can sustain it longer resulting in higher dps
7. i have never hit 10k bs unless i went full yolo DA CS with zerker rune (which 11k no stealth) on full zerk enemy. but yes i can be 6k-8K
8. so playing like looking for the below 50% hp enemy with no aoe around him for 4k-8k dmg than run away – guard can do better than us….
9. we dont have good range weapon like everyone have
10. almost every class can disengage nicely , engi with 2 immunity 2 blocks , guard the same, ele memser and so on. we do have SB to teleport to high places

to sum it up

i dont think thief need buff or nerf but other class need tune down thier dmg burst combos or sustain. i see the ranger driud staying full hp 1v3 on point OMG it havent drop below 90% hp untill cc spam class arrived ….

guys its easy combo

BP +bound thans sneak to perma blind him while his hp drops down to 25% than he go defense you go stealth and sneak attack again with unload again

but the mean time the yhave the contest

after testing trap staff, crit staff , SA staff my build that works best is just raw dmg and hardly the stealth AA kd.

i will post my build in other thread so ppl can comment (its like the s/d almost with few twicks)

Tora.7214:

I dont think that thief was doing it right. 200dmg is the average of like 3 bleed stacks ticking.

So the thief was either playing it wrong, or you were playing your cards right and didnt chased the thief at melee range

On a melee character that tries to spike me down 10s is more than enough time to fill him with enough bleed stacks to make him take 2-2.5k dmg ticks

Range dps however, and traps, specially traps and any floor skill can melt this build in seconds.

Range dps can still be baten if you manage to catch up. But trap dh, staff necros, wells chronos and trap rangers that know what theyre doing will kill you

Still is a pretty fun and powerfull build to play if you are tired of the more squishy thief builds. You can do yolo jumps with confident

As an additional note worth mentioning that this is not a spiking build, is about surviving and wearing out the opponent. So if what youre looking is a build for spiking down in like 5s you better try using staff with soldier stats and DD runes instead. The guarented crit.on dodge make bound/vault a nice spike combo. And soldier stats give you a nice survability

as a thief when i dodge i cleanse his conditions pretty much easily so again ele, necro, ranger , guard can cleanse bleed and poison pretty much easily too
against non condi cleanse player you can tick 2k dps but common who aint taking condi cleanse these days …

trappey.6957:

@messiah where exactly is the build tho?

the tutorial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51l_gXEO-PQ&index=1&list=PLiT59SEZLaid4flz3nkf1m01XtU6D6Pya

the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVl0MhCnYvTw0Jw/EL+EmXToKEF2CAvmz08AMB+AB-TZBFABCcIAsZ/BxLD02JAAgnAAA

you can change some utilities and do some variant around this idea like channeled vigor for even more dodges , and with 5 skills you can go with DA and improvisation so every steal will recharge for sure 80% 1 of the utilities
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVn8lCFOh9OBmOB8PhFYCzLNEHaDzhwS4KULBEA2NA-TZBFABCcIAsZ/BxLD02JAAgnAAA

check my build in signature

surprisingly it works better than d/p (for me) and i dont need to be close range and can pressure nicely light armor like mesmer, ele, ranger, necro. and also guard can pull them off the trap as they like to stand on it and w8 for me to come…. like ye really

i use bound so like d/p but from range and more blind spamming

the problem i find in this build and almost any other thief build is we cant contest well

sure some evades but 1 aoe will prevent us to stand in it so we must pull back
we dont have any ability to protect like block, distortion(sword), Life force, immunity

i fought agasint good d/p and s/d thieves and even if they killed me it took them some time till help comes and res me .

so again it seems like thief shouldnt go for 1v1 even if eventually they can in it

i dont know

i had 1v3 on mid on my DD thief

the enemy where d/d db thief, guard trap, ele d/d

sure i got killed after 30 sec so i check the dmg of the thief on me amd i was surprised he did only 200 poison and 200 bleeding in average while guard did all the dmg mainly

so does it really good build to play?!

you dont need rune of the spped as you got perma swiftness
i would take bound with p/p set
also your dmg modifier are really low so take DA or CS line

Straegen.2938:

I got wrecked by a staff build earlier today. I am sure much of it was not knowing their chains but it was dishing out some serious AoE spam.

staff had good dmg but it all depends in your group. dont try 1v1 although i was able to take down MM and semi bunker build cause their dmg was low and my healing was greater so hey though they can face tanking me

so far i am doing good with supporter class/guard/ele 2v2 and 2v3

also without stealth you have to be alert 24/7 for leaping guards, revenant, thieves….

hard light for a thief

Galrukh.6532:

Alright Im gonna be the noob that asks, where do you get the shocking aura ?

in pvp the rune of surging gives shocking aura for 5 sec when you use you elite every 45 sec

Zdenny.2704:

db? you mean bd – Bandit’s Defense?

death blossom #3 on dagger

go with this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAoYn8lCFOh9OBemCkmilWCzrMcHiCznwV4LULAcAWAA-TJhHwAAeAAHLDE4EAIZ/BA

you will never have endurance problem or initiatives

here is the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGWEIAotM7Y&feature=youtu.be

also look for sizer in twitch he use s/d build

hi guys

i want to share with you another build i theorycraft and came up pretty good
video is being rendered and will be up soon

here is the build :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8MBFOhlOBGmCkmiFfCzrJsEiCbBgXTAaeAmAjgA-TJBFABiXGggHAQbHCAAuCAAA

i am using unique runes (watch the vid to see which one)

kidding i will tell you – rune of the surging

concept of the build:

staff is good weapon while in team fight

1. AA hit like a truck (but little bit less then Sword) and is whirl finisher – so look for combo fields
2. WC – weakness is always good to negate dmg and its whirl finisher
3. DA – remove immobilize, heal if evades for 450 and remove 1 condition while cripple my enemy
4. DS – mainly used in the right time to prevent some burst dmg skills
5. VAULT – huge aoe dmg skill with leap finisher with small healing of 450

lots of dodges like the S/D build but the healing skill and invigoration precision do all the difference

signet heals for 132 per attack which means AA full chain plus crit from both sigils count as 8 attacks thus potential of 1056 healing
and trait IP heals 15% of crit dmg and with 60-80% crit chance most of your attacks will crit so AA chain can do above 6k dmg which means +900 healing
the blood sigil heals for 453
so total heal from full AA chain is 2409 heal – AMAZING isnt it?

vault can heal around 800-1450 hp

and what more amazing is if it cleaves you will heal your self per enemy you strike
so vault can heal you for 4-6k hp if you hit 4-5 enemies. but usually probably 2 so 2k hp

now for the second concept – shocking aura, stun, daze, kd control – this is what you get to control you enemy
elite skill will daze, launch with 5-6k dmg
steal will daze
reflexive strike will KD
and shocking aura for 5 sec can stun twice if the enemy stupid to attack you without stability
all of this open you big window to burst with vault and even just AA chain which cost no initiatives

for defense you have 6 dodges, 2 evades skills, 12 condi cleanse (dodges, evade, SS ,signet) 2 break stun (which one is on 15 sec cd!)

careful though dont try to melee brainless your enemy. but the healing will gives you some time to endure the dmg and the CC ability also
with group fight its amazing so far (but i am not high tier player so cant comment on it)
some class and build you will have to use the SB first as you will need range (so sometimes i take p/p and bound with me with few more twicks to the build)

hope you like the idea , try it and comment

video is up soon – build commentary and short gameplay scenes to show the build strengths

check mines (i ma not high tier player) but i do fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51l_gXEO-PQ&list=PLiT59SEZLaid4flz3nkf1m01XtU6D6Pya&index=1
will post soon my unique DD build which no one has come up with …..

go to learn from thief who also dont have good condi cleanse but stealth
so learn to engage and disengage fast with shiro and heal through with life steal and fast dmg
use your legendary swap, generosity, staff, malyx etc… just time it right and you’ll do fine

i finds its funny that LB guard can do 2k on hit AA and #2 hits like 4-5k every 4 sec
so yes we have #3 unload which does 7-8k dmg in 1.5 and can be dodgeable/block/reflect/ reduce dmg with protection etc.. and we can spam it twice if we ant to have some initiatives left while other get to block/ reflect immune etc…

also revenant hammer the same more dmg in 1200 range and rangers for that matter

so i dont see any problem we have same range while we dont have those ability to protect ourslef but dodging/ running away

it will push range enemy to start thinking how to pressure range thief and not w8 for them to step on the traps or come melee.

so far the only efficient way to handle guards is when i play p/p bound. i wont contest the point but if he wont leave it he will be dead.
same with necro reaper my p/p kills them
but 900 is too risky in group fights where i see mesmer , ranger, guard, rev all stay 1200 range and do nice dmg where i need to be 900 (which most of the time is 450-600 range)

all i can say is the dev mention some p/p is being reworked. so maybe rickoshet. and evade skill.
regarding dmg. after playing with maraduer i dont think we need more dmg (even though other class has better dmg modifier – LB guard 2.5k hit on AA common )
i think thieves even with 3-4 dodges need more ability to sustain a fight especialy in pvp

protection – maybe put it on the elite traitline on some trait. after you evade attack we get 3 sec of protection 5 sec cd
or dmg mitigation like take 20% less dmg from weaken foes – in know the dev suggested something like that
every other class has protection or dmg mitigation trait/rune or all of them. we cannot fight against 60% less dmg (i remember hitting bunker ranger for 100 dmg on my AA i just luagh with him)
also gives us might option or skill which can open up hybrid build or more risky builds. like pistol main hand give might (which will buff both condi and power aspect)

atm against bunker i cant do kitten. and now ranger and mesmer can play bunker.
and yes its hard 1v1 where we should be the best. but we dont

just practice and you learn how to time your dodges on the target

easy for me mainly on group enemies

Nemaides.6873:

messiah.1908:

mesmer stack mainly 2 condi torment and confusion so just 1 withraw remove them both

Isn’t the Escapist Absolution trait supposed to cleanse only on successful dodge roll, not on successful evades ?

I assume you have the Trickster trait to remove 1 condition on tricks utilities, but how can you cleanse 2 condition with withdraw ?

Either it’s a bug, or the Escapist absolution tooltip is not correct (or I misinterpreted it). But from the Dev responses on BWE feedbacks, it seemed that this trait would trigger only on evade from dodge rolls.

I’ll try it out in game tonight

i you withraw ans lost burning and bleed if evade pops up and if i use it and didnt see the evade pop up only 1 got cleansed.
it state when you evade (not when you dodge) an attack and not while using dodge