Guild Wars 2

not rune – amulet

rune use durability for the thougness and vitality and boon duration

amulet – yes better than celestial imo

i had 2 games with my team we were 2 support mesmer with 1 bunker ele and 1 zerk guard (pug was rev/warrior)
we won twice and got 2 pips . and i though we had no dmg against the enemy which had (rev,necro,engi,guard,mes)

didnt use wop at all. guard took 30% hp with feedback and necro bounce with his staff.

i felt less tankish but the rotation was good so even if i killed took them 3 to put me down after 30-60 sec

i hope we dont see more nerf to support mesmer or it will be lost

the only class which give me trouble was gaurd and combined with necro boon rip / power mesmer boon rip could pressure me without stability

Mak.2657:

Imo zerk chronoshatter can’t kill decent zerk trap DH at 1×1 on a point (unless used stealthed moa). So if you play shatter and see dh defending point – it is just a waste of time try to decap. I can dodge, but I need too much dodges. Range isn’t an option, melee isn’t too. DH will just outsustain you. Though much of DH players are strictly bad and just staying at a point (and not using LoS, eating berserker, etc).

if you run power mes that it can be hard and might cost you time to kill him if the point his. in wvw mesmer wins

go soldier or sentinel for bunker support
this is the setup i use
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8OncfilqBGoBEgilej6cDKhQwMAugMqeUb1XF-TJxHABD8EAWqMQ47PAwFBAA

signet enable you to use temporal enchanter so more resistance to your team with more boons and swiftness and aegis and protection. if no condi enemy team drop signet and temporal enchanter and take II trait which will free 1 more utility

if you see guard take feedback
if you see rev and necro take null field
consider portal to move forces
also well of recall (as i dont use it i use cp trait which enable me to use shield twice so i can get the lost alacrity but it bounce and not aoe i sue it for more bunker and less support so depend on the situation)

with soldier amulet you can even kill 1v1 some classes with base 2.2k power

Silverkey.2078:

The change of precog means now it is not about spamming anymore. You have to think for using it. I don’t mind that change, it makes the skill cap a bit higher and we will see less bad mesmers everywhere.

it makes me think

if we dont see in tommorow esl bunker mesmer it means thay they were noobs as they spam tkills……
if we see it mean bunker mesmer is still working

maybe we see DH as a counter to them having a comeback…

You know that ppl already play it in ESL
Just with soldier or sentinel amulet
And portal or blink
You amulet is useless as you losing hp and no condi to do dmg
I take feedback if dh is in the house

Chronobunker if you were good at it before hardly change
1v1 still easy
1v2 doable
1v3 harder without wop
Now I don’t use wop rather portal or feedback for more resistance and reflect if needed or mor if more cleanse needed or blink is several map
If I am in trouble I will call for help which will arrive in 30 sec and also I will try to play more group support rather than bunkering solo a point

So in group fight bunker hardly change
In solo bunkering can be more harder

Engi nerf train is on your way

What I love as Mesmer bunker is wop not needed much a long as I have good team
With it i needed another ally so we can swap contest if I am being pressure
And now I see more trap guard so I swap to feedback so more resistance and reflect
Lest hope they won’t nerf resistance reflect and alacrity
Bunker mes is still in the meta house unless viper rev will pushed out to thieves and necros

hi guys

lately i am experiment with stomping difficulties
i play mesmer for example with stability and i see the animation fully finished and the enemy dont get fully dinished
i didnt got cc as i had stability and didnt take dmg, slow or anything
only on my second try i manage to finish the stomp
sometime i just cant stom at all several times and also my team mates cant

what am i missing out?

Cole.3824:

There is no justification for it so just stop. Needing 3 people to realistically bring one person down is NOT healthy for small team pvp. If matches were 10-15 people then fine but when talking about 5v5 needing 3 to kill 1 is stupid, and broken. Period.

There is a reason why in the current meta the pro teams are saying that the first to cap wins. A game being decided in the first 10 seconds is not something anyone should be trying to encourage. Enough with the shortsighted views on balance. It isn’t all about making sure mesmers feel all powerful and screw the rest of the professions. This bunker garbage needs to be addressed. Now that mesmers and condi rev have been toned down a bit I imagine tempest is next. A healthy game means accepting that sometimes you have to take a hit for the good of all.

maybe or maybe not but a meta with full power creep where 2 ppl zerg 1 person in 3 sec also can be boring.
when bunker guard was a meta no one complain. wth happend now? ppl just hate mesmer as they can little bit support (less aoe cleanse but more heal and alacrity)
where tempest can bunker as well 3v1 why is that allowed?

and even 3v1 viper can can take some time to take him down (much shorter than bunker but still longer as he can evade, heal, block, immune, teleport etc…)

the problem there is not counter meta so just nerfing will result in new meta with no address to the real problem

Ramoth.9064:

Ok. So everytime some one decides to play this skill-less chrono bunker build all we need is 3 people. Gotcha. If they enemy team has 2 chrono bunkers we only need 6! awesome!

if 2 chorno bunker play on the same spot jst go cap the other 2.
if its 4v4 with 1 chorno 3 of you should target him at least

Silverkey.2078:

I don’t know for stronghold lord, but when I tried precog on Foefire lord, he just nicely walked away from it…

Actually he did that to all my wells (no healing, no blur, no alacrity, no whatever) and when he finally died I almost thought “you deserve it”.

LOL sometime it seems the npc ack like pugs….

i use my healing aoe on them and they dodge out of it (guys no red circle!)

Silverkey.2078:

What I meant is that it is not healthy for a class to have 4.5/30s block + 2.5/12s blur + 3/45s blur + 1-4/50s distortion, all of this on shorter CD thanks to alacrity.

And it is even worse in PvE since in PvP, the enemy may interrupt your block.

This is stupid regardless of the game mode.

And as many mentioned, in the PvE meta of “full damage is the only thing which matters”, this is actually a buff.

check engi block 6/30 shields , 2 immunities another 6 sec, perma regen, stealth like thieves, best healing skills in the game not to mention maraduer amulet as a sustain/bruiser build 20% less condi dmg….

the problem with p/p atm even if they buff the dmg and range and i dont know what…
too many class got block reflec atm.. just one aura sharing ele and you r useless
it cant handle guards sw/f LB
it cant handle ele d/f shout and aura
it cant handle bunker builds

so atm useless even though we got some little dmg buff

Ross Biddle.2367:

Todd.6573:

Ross Biddle.2367:

messiah.1908:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Can confirm: Tea running ranged DPS druid + my p/p venomshare thief = dead Chrono bunker XD

have you tried venom share and mm or rise necro?

I don’t even know what that means

Anyway, there’s a nice easy takedown of a chrono doing his thing at mid in this fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL0SnGDCP5c

That wasnt a bunker. He’s running a traditional shatter with GS – S/X, of course he melts after burning all of his CDs in a second flat while being out of position.
Next!

Wait a minute, have you never killed a bunker chrono before?

the problem with p/p carrion set it has low dmg with unload and low dmg with condition. p/d has also torment which s nice but unload enable you to proc the venoms much faster

mm – minion master, rise – mm utilities so you can share venom with them to do havoc stacking

Ppl here suggested to take the nerf road
Although it might work it also might push the meta to other bunker boring variant
Thus I think anet should consider to find a counter meta builds which result in more group compositions entertaining and tactic gameplay

Necro for example should be hard counter to boons
So give corrupt boons abilities slight buff like aoe rip and more boons rip
Also the boon rip which turn to condi should last longer
Thief should back to handle 1v1 to handle the sustain class much better

I think all class should be able to build 3-4 builds and choose from
Dmg
Sustain
Bunker
Condi
And all of then should consider good if chosen

what i get is that the balance team has started to address those issue community is qq about

hope the will be reasonable with it as many players are just qq without trying to learn the mechanism of the class or build.

bunker mesmer probably will get more nerf same as viper revenant which will become more weak to conditions (so maybe necro comeback…).
bunker mes less block time and probably wop becoming prevent cap

hope we see thief and warrior coming back ….

or the enemy team was so so bad

i took currput boon, ncsy and rip the boons from him after my team tried to cc him so he pop stability . i reaper him to death with poison
3v3 we target the mesmer. after 10 sec he was down . i build only to take him down and harras him nothing else.

@baylock – if he took null field and resistance you wouldnt be able to kill him as null field is 7 sec and with cs can be twice , also time warp he should have about 24 sec resistance and 14 sec condi cleanse and 4 shatter avialble to him. unless its group fight and than maybe yes

this shout is really good in team fight where bunker mes or rev herald are. as you rip 2 boons and convert them to vulnerability aoe
now take currupt boon with oyu to shut down bunker mes for couple of sec and you are fine just need to time it right after you try to cc him and he puts stability with shatter and boom fear and vulnerability

ok lets discuss it

b4 hot i used this build to bunker/sustain/support or some other version of it

the concept stay the same with chaos and inspiration trait line

utilities almost the same

so i hear ppl suggest to nerf chaos and insp line while the main problem doesnt come from it
the chrono trait line is the problem because its the new which make ppl qq much

so what makes now the bunker mes so OP

so lets check it out

utilities:
WoE – more support skills with aoe healing. if necro is smart he will use poison field on it so ppl will get less healing and use 1 condi cleanse with it or even 3 with chilblains.
WoP – 3 sec blur. common 3 sec aoe blur . the aoe most of the time is for 2-3 allies . again 3 sec. so again more support skill. what is the difference between any other blocking engi shield and stealth . only the fact its aoe ….. just make it vulnerability so can prevent cap like distortion and problem solved. the mesmer will have to use it off point so one of his team will contest it.

shield block – 4.5 sec while engi got 6 sec (3+3). rev got 6 sec (3+3), guard has some variant with massive dmg and much more block skills. thief got evades and dodges. so 4.5 sec is the problem ?

no

lets talk alacrity
so shield block is on 30 sec but in fact with alacrity becoming like 20 while other have 24 sec traited. so 4 sec is the problem?
we dont have any well reduce cd trait and if there were it turn WoP to 36 sec instead of 45. while with alacrity its like 32 so again 4 sec is the problem?
same as healing skill almost any other class got some 20-25 sec healing skill. we got 30 base which turn to 20-25 sec as well with alacrity. so common

CS
oh now its the problem. we can use skills twice with no cd if doing it right. so now you can have more blocks, more blur, more shatter, more alacrity, more utilities

do you think CS made all the problem for ppl to handle bunker mes….

i tested with friends 1v2 and 1v3 with the build above and handle it good (not great but good) 1v1 easy , 1v2 doable but tricky, 1v3 hard little bit more than the current chronobunker.

so my result to handle the "opiness "

1. wop – prevent contest – let the mesmer use cs with it so 6 sec decap for you
2. give other class the ability to handle bunker class better. thief for example if they had unblockable skills, necro with master of corruption trait should give more 2 boons rip and maybe aoe boon rip

problem solved

also good group communication. 3 ppl targeting the bunker and he will die
or just take DH with viper rev and necro , cc +condi + boon rip . mesmer will spam his shatter for stability, blur, blocks and after 5 sec he is yours …. unless he runs for support from the ele…

also regarding the post. i took maraduer amulet with the same bunker build concept and with nice 4v4 om mid i target the mesmer and together he was down in 10 sec
he used time warp so i used null field , little bit cc and he was without shatter ability so immobilize him and he was down

[quote=5849927;CntrlAltDefeat.1465
I know plenty about mesmer. I have played one for over ten years. The one thing anet has consistently done across gw and gw2 with mesmer is nerf and buff it according to their mood. With the sole exception of assassin and thief, mesmer has always been the problem child for arenanet. They have created a profession that thrives by upsetting others play styles. The list I created above is not one I have made up, or pulled out of thin air. These are all things mesmer can, and will do. From their entirely O.T.T AoE animations, to their low hanging fruit interrupts. After years of playing and ascending mesmers the one thing that remains true is that they are entirely blue chip. One month they are given..3 months later it is all taken away. Mesmer particularly in gw2 has survived more off of layers of cheese than its predecessor in gw1 with required a good ping and sound reactions to get the best from it.
I like mesmer as much as the next person..I would even say a little more. However it does not take a genius to see anet dropped the ball with them. They took a light armour squishy profession with average HP pool and made it the strongest bunkering profession in game. They took a profession designed from the principle idea of thriving by interrupting and instead made them near 100-0 burst. They have never truly been able to frame or describe what role entirely mesmer was envisioned to play. As a result every long, long term mesmer can a test that the words nerf and mesmer are almost interchangeable. Anet had a good idea with mesmer..but it has never progressed beyond a good idea. Its cup is either too full, or near empty. That is mesmers ongoing problem. They are never, ever balanced..either wayy too much is given, or way too much is taken away.
It amusing to see people discussing ways to take mesmers down and the overall attitude is to bring a friend, when we all full well anet will take them down in about 60 days..the same as they have always done for 10 years straight.[/quote]

as much as i agree to what you have wrote i thikn the problem with buff and nerf the mesmer by the qq mode.

if i try to figure what anet want the mesmer to be with chrono line is to be able to support. wells, slow and droping down the DE trait.
if oyu remeber after hot came out ppl scream and qq about the power creap, than few weeks later mesmer enter with bunker cele build. which meant to be support but turn out to be able to handle like a bunker. and after couple of weeks amulet soldier came and boom bunker+support. and ppl dont know or remember how to handle it
i remember top esl didnt bother to handle 1v1 against bunker guard who staying a point contesting it. so why now they are bother?
same goes to druid who contest alone the point . you wont try 1v1 as it will take too much time. but when mesmer was able to share boons (like he used to be but hardly top player used it) and aoe blur and aoe cc twice with cs and gw ppl scream

imo putting back the thief on the spot where he needs to be as fast roamer and abel to 1v1 if play right will push little bit the condi rev which result in pushing back the bunker mes.

pvp
go soldier which is much better with 2.3k power . sure less crit but more sustain dmg

have you tried the build with marauder amulet?

i have and its seems more useful in team fight
i still can handle 1v1 and some 1v2 while doing better dmg
1v3 for 20-30 sec
1v4 for 10 sec
i took defender trait and soi utility

although you cannot call it bunker any more

Ross Biddle.2367:

Can confirm: Tea running ranged DPS druid + my p/p venomshare thief = dead Chrono bunker XD

have you tried venom share and mm or rise necro?

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

The reality is, top tier players don’t like chronomancer, mid tier don’t like chronomancer, casuals don’t like chronomancer. The trend across the board is all universal.
1) Too many escapes. – you mean 1 blink adn 1 phase retreat
2)Too many blocks. – you mean shield block for 8 sec
3) Access to invulnerability. -here you may be right as sword #2 got low cd. but thief also got lots of evades , rev #3 sword and shiro stances , ranger sos and evades
4) Access to stealth. – not being used
5) Access to stuns. – like every other class
6) Access to transforms. – not being used
7) Reliable swiftness. – without soi than not
8) Strong bunkering capabilities. – like guard, druid, tempest engi etc….
.

so basically you seem you dont like it and maybe dont know it much.

the reason ppl sont like it cause you see 2 of them in team fight with 2 rev. delete the rev abilities than you wont see 2 of them and maybe only 1.
the mesmer is great supporter and top tier group use it on bunker only sitting in 1v1 on mid or far which is versus other mesmer . for what?

i meant condi thief

rare?? you mean extinct
pd is useless atm. too many block, reflect
any team fight (like at the end) you did almost nothing and hardly contribute cause your dmg blocked by guard.
tempest with auras and diamond should be the same
you better go rev atm (till they nerf it)
also bunker mes with cleanse boons and aoe heal again will negate most of your dmg

guys try to keep it on constructive thread and give suggestions . try not to argue with each other

i post other thread to whole thief builds improvement

for p/p you need some unbloackable ability as too much atm flying around
skills #2 need duration increase. immobilize 3 sec (as most class got decrease trait or immunity) and vulnerability need to be 5 sec

hi fellow thieves

as we know ppl screaming for anet to nerf the bunker mesmer and rev maybe its an opportunity for us to ask some good adjustment

what would you consider a good buff to the current meta for the thief to be able to enter it again
also try to consider the use of all weapon set and not just d/p. like p/p, condi thief, d/d

please keep it reasonable and easy to implement

i will start

p/p set –
need some unbloackable abilities/trait as too much block ,reflect flying around
range 1200 must
evade skill from weapon set like every other weapon set

d/d set
cnd – more dmg
need some unbloackable abilities/trait as too much block flying around
skill #3 more dmg in power set

condiset –
shadowstrike 3 torment
bodyhshot – immobilize 3 sec , vulnerability 5 sec
dancing dagger – add slow effect for 2 sec
pressure strike – 2 torment are too low for interrupt and as for now its so hard to interrupt so maybe change it to cause 2 stack of torment to slow foes OR foes with 5 stacks of bleeding .

i tried to keep it simple
thief atm has enough power dmg but all other class has too much dmg mitigation like protection, dmg modifiers blocks, reflect which prevent the thief to do his job

lets hear yours

if the mesmer sit on a cap point alone dont bother. wait for him to leave the point and decap it

if its on mid point where there are 4v4 or 3v3 just put 2 of you pressure the mesmer while the other one or 2 pressure another enemy

it will leave the mesmer with no support so you have 2 potions
all 4 of you burst the mesmer or burst another enemy depend on the hp and awareness

if mesmer sit alone on a point leave it. send your rev or thief to decap if he leave it

in team fight target him first. either way the fight gonna be long so pressure him and make him use defense skills early.
condi wont kill him if he run null field and resistance

i was rekt while having dmg from 4 enemy focus while my team couldnt help me (2 dh, 1 rev and 1 mes cele bunker). i was down in 10 sec . after that i play more carefully and could handle them as we target their mesmer so they went to help him

signet necro also wont be good just with 2 signets.
here is the 2v1 even in full team fight who need to focus the mesmer

rev+necro
dh+rev
rev+rev
dh+dh
thief +1 – wont kill him but can pressure him

haamutee.3917:

i’d like to redirect all this pvp talk to the subject i originally had in mind; which is the fact about mesmer having lots of condi traits and on paper almost looks like a real condi character, but the condi damage is just to amazingly low.

simply cause every condi skill is proc-passive and not active
you have to block and hope your enemy whom you target is the one to put 5 torment
you have to create illusions and shatter and hope they wont killed in the way and not be bugged to run the other direction
only AA and IB are active but so slow
we dont have any utilities which proc conditions
we have 2 conditions torment and confusion mainly

rev – all skills are proc- active, great utilities with aoe, torment, burning , confusion and might stacking

i play with this idea long ago before hot and even after
condi bunker with illusion, chaos, inspiration
so i got support with boon share, defender, boons,
but i loss some illusion proc with no DE and CP and no shield for some blocks

so you basically nerfing mesmer class and not the build

1 – Chaotic Dampening – Reduced the duration of protection from 5 seconds to 2 or 2 1/2 seconds. – no one will use it with so low protection up time . a better solution is the make every well unique field .and what about necro wells all drak field so lets nerf necro cause they can leach and blind bolt…..

2 – All’s Well That Ends Well – Reduced the duration of Alacrity from 2 seconds to 1 second. – remind you that shield has no trait which decrease duration. so you nerf the weapon set. and the whole chrono trait line concept

4 – Improved Alacrity – Decrease the duration from 50% to 25% – again doable nerf to the whole trait line . so from 2 sec to 1 sec and from 3 sec to 1.25 sec you do the math….

6 – Rune of durability – Increase the cd on the #4 from 20 seconds to 40 seconds. And remove the 125 vitality on the #6 completely. – the only problem is vitality mainly and not the 3 sec protection and regen

here is another suggestion even it might be hard to implement

instead of amulet, give the players the choice to choose from all the possibilities from a total amount of points
so i can build for a unique states which are perfect to me and my play style
like thief can be with more hp, low toughness, high power and crit dmg and chance which can be change for each thief . one will take more power and other will take more toughness as he might be beginner.

this will make the meta not to be fixed rather versatile according to player lvl and taste and his group composition

ppl wont be able to copy top tier builds as they fight in a group so can be allowed to play with less toughness and health etc.. so no fix metabuild anymore

but how do you and they knew it will effect this way
i dont think they want you to get pips and not lossing pips

nearlight.3064:

messiah.1908:

i disagree to nerf as i dont believe it will solve the problem
if they nerf in some way the bunker mesmer to the point he wont be viable any more no team will take it and look for other bunker build like guard or ele or ranger who can res quick with mercy runes and support with cleanse and boons
if they nerf the rev the same result and we may see more necros

so than what nerf all condi builds (remember mtd nerf – no condi mesmer even in hotjoin any more from just 1 torment stack removed)

anet needs to think how to create and push team to play tactically

i agree for little adjustment here and there but careful from full nerf

also restrict 1 class wont solve the problem as we may see 1 bunker mesmer and 1 bunker guard or ele , 1 viper rev, 1 cele/carrion necro 1 marauder engi

maybe this idea

if one team does equally fight nothing gain in points
if it does unbalance fight 1v2 for example and manage to down the 1 than they get 2 points instead of 5
if they do 1v3 and manage to down the 1 they will get 1 point
put it on time like after 10 seconds . so now team will need to count and move away if they want to get more points. and build for more power to be able to down enemies under 10 sec

just and idea concept

If they take mercy runes they won’t have durability runes. Oh no, necro being viable again? How awful. Let’s just not nerf bunker Mesmer because build and class diversity in gw2 is clearly something that none of us want. I’m pretty sure you’re the only one who isn’t appalled by how cheesey bunker mes is because you play it yourself, not against the seemingly endless amount of them match after match.

It’s the circle of nerf. It tried to keep the flavors of the month in balance, but ultimately fails because we don’t glance enough.

you dont know me so let me tell you what i like

i like diversity . i hate mesmer could only play power shatter for 3 years
i like conditions build also
bunker build i hate (had maybe 15 games as bunker)
i like to theorycraft and i play with bunker mesmer before hot went alive.
i like to see bunker mesmer still viable option and not the meta shift to bunker guard
i want team to choose what to play and not be forced to play certain class and build

to see all them useing 2 rev, 2 mes is boring

every class needs some uniqueness but now almost everyone using the same concept
in the pass it was cele meta 2 dd ele which also was boring

nerfing one build wont give you anything till some elite players finds the next op bunker/ support build after 10 days and than what….

i disagree to nerf as i dont believe it will solve the problem
if they nerf in some way the bunker mesmer to the point he wont be viable any more no team will take it and look for other bunker build like guard or ele or ranger who can res quick with mercy runes and support with cleanse and boons
if they nerf the rev the same result and we may see more necros

so than what nerf all condi builds (remember mtd nerf – no condi mesmer even in hotjoin any more from just 1 torment stack removed)

anet needs to think how to create and push team to play tactically

i agree for little adjustment here and there but careful from full nerf

also restrict 1 class wont solve the problem as we may see 1 bunker mesmer and 1 bunker guard or ele , 1 viper rev, 1 cele/carrion necro 1 marauder engi

maybe this idea

if one team does equally fight nothing gain in points
if it does unbalance fight 1v2 for example and manage to down the 1 than they get 2 points instead of 5
if they do 1v3 and manage to down the 1 they will get 1 point
put it on time like after 10 seconds . so now team will need to count and move away if they want to get more points. and build for more power to be able to down enemies under 10 sec

just and idea concept

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

I understand the devs hesitation to split PvP/PvE and I think there are a few places that could be worked on before splitting numbers.

Well of Precog = Decaps the point. That’s not a major balance change nor would it affect PvE at all while bringing the bunker mesmer much more in line.

Add more unblockable/undodgeable attacks Tells can be added accordingly. Importantly, I think thieves need boon/block hate.

There used to be a warrior trait that gave the warrior might when the warrior was blocked (I think it was called Tantrum). Not exactly punishment for blocking but thieves could use something similar. ID and PS on thief respectively cause PI or torment when interrupting. Make one of these when blocked instead of interrupting: every time someone blocks your attack, X damage happens. Cannot crit/Ignores armor. Long channeled blocks vs quick auto attacks will be able to wear down bunkers without buffing thieves too much vs glass classes that they were already able to counter well in prior metas.

To add team presence to the thief, they also need a trait or skill that makes an enemy unable to block attacks rather than current buffs (signet of might/shiro/necro shout) that make the user’s attacks unblockable. Call it “expose defenses” (replace quick pockets: trait that now affects steal) and/or a trap utility that makes the enemy unable to block all incoming attacks for a few seconds making the thief and ideal +1 vs certain bunkers.

Thieves don’t need to be the apex glass cannon class and shouldn’t for the sake of class diversity but I think making them a bigger threat to certain kinds of bunkers while making teammates also hit those bunkers harder would not mess with PvE balance while giving them a much stronger role in PvP.

+1 to that

guys i remember the argument which bunker is better , guard, ele or mesmer

tell me what happend from beta till now which make bunker mesmer OP ?
nothing happen imo

what happens is that
1. viper runes
2. blocks and heals (rev shield)
3. heal buff (shiro heal skill)
4. evades
5. thief pushed out the meta comp

see what the abjured did against 2 bunker mes – amazing and hope other will follow
thief pressure 1v1 and +1
pressure the mesmer first to force cd and being useless afterwards for few sec.

when i playing my bunker mes i shout to my team to target the mesmer. after 1 min when he’s down its a surely win for us
if there are 2 mesmer we try to force split them between points so again facing only 1
and than power rev or thief can decap if the other mes is off point.

yes its boring to fight against them like any other bunker build (ele , guard, ranger)
yes they can res faster so take mercy rune with 20% res speed with your guard or ele.

anet needs to bring back the thief to be able to pressure again while not being too OP and you will see a shift with the current meta (although i see no wrong thief dominating 1v1 situation at all)

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

messiah.1908:

But what gerenties other bad meta will arise
I see ppl hate condi as it’s not fun like pure direct dmg
But also 3 ppl zerging doing fast dmg can be boring eventually

The game needs more tactical decision making and not pure build excellence

I vote for 1 class for each team.
Also maybe each player must fill in 1 role so no for 2 bunker or 2 condi or full sustain party like
Roamer
Dmg dealer
Bunker
Condi dealer
Sustain
Support
Etc
Or some other variant
Than the game can be more interesting

The first part I agree 100% with, the 2nd part not so much. What you just described in the 2nd part is GW1, and those were 8 person teams; which was great. But GW2 was build around the concept that all classes can do all things to some extent. For that to work Conquest would be all kinds of screwed up.

even if there will be class restrictive it wont prevent 2 bunkers or 2 sustain
dd ele and engi
bunker guard or druid or mesmer
so just different class wont push the meta to shift because as you said gw2 want every class to be able to play every build and role. thus i think we need to think about roles and not class

like in basketball

you have 5 roles :
point guard
shooting guard
small forward
power forward
center

you dont see 5 point guard….

so try to implement it in gw2 5v5 pvp
each team has to create 5 roles and play with them

how to do it its a different story

maybe for each role the is 3 amulet and 10 rune to choose from and once been chosen no one can choose the same

But what gerenties other bad meta will arise
I see ppl hate condi as it’s not fun like pure direct dmg
But also 3 ppl zerging doing fast dmg can be boring eventually

The game needs more tactical decision making and not pure build excellence

I vote for 1 class for each team.
Also maybe each player must fill in 1 role so no for 2 bunker or 2 condi or full sustain party like
Roamer
Dmg dealer
Bunker
Condi dealer
Sustain
Support
Etc
Or some other variant
Than the game can be more interesting

Zenith.7301:

Thief doesn’t need the 1v1 back, they just need better teamfight presence and utility.

Nerf stealth, buff their innate survival with more damage reduction mechanisms that don’t come with the side benefit of large, spammable spike.

I mean, it’s not like rangers are doing well either. No, druids are not rangers, they are a completely separate healbot class that makes them give up their offensive capabilities (in which mesmers and thieves always eclipsed them).

Necro of course is out of meta as well, anybody could see it coming, when revenant is doing unrelenting assaults that hit for same or more damage than a Gravedigger with the added benefit of evade frames and a teleport to your target while having the strongest mainhand sword autoattack in the game. So power necro is a defenseless pinball with slow animations that are easy to dodge, and condi necro is totally eclipsed by condi engineer.

simple solution can be thief rework which enable him to win almost any 1v1 situation against bunker builds, like ignore blocking/evade, more poison, ignore immunity to dmg etc.. as anet state at the begginig of this game thief should be the best in 1v1 situation.
than you can see more tactic game play. send mesmer to sit on mid alone will result in failure maybe so more rotation by the enemy thief or back to power mesmer who can fight thief

the problem as i see it thief is out of the meta so less rotation and tactic games and more sitting on points

to see the sustain players sleeping in the down buff as they know they cant kill each other was true upsetting

Embolism.8106:

I think the current meta is upside down. Before Guardians were the ultimate bunkers and Mesmers the ultimate burst, now it’s exactly the other way around.

exactly and see how manyy qq on the pvp thread by top players …

mesmer are not the problem also condi rev are not the problem

the problem is or are we see too many immunity, bocks, regen, dmg modifier, dmg mitigation which push the meta into over sustain than pure power

also i like to see condi enter the meta and would like to see it still
but engi who can hole with maraduer, thief who htrown out, warrior left far behind, ranger who can bunk too . this is the problem and not the mesmer

i am sure if thief could play bunker/support build it probably become a meta in this meta ….

get the idea?

As I agree that yesterday fights where boring I don’t agree it’s the rev and mes meta fault
When thief thrown from the meta with no ability to handle 1v1 and rev with good mobility take their place and so many blocks immunity condi cleanse out there made build to favorite the sustain and support over dmg and tactic game play

But again seeing a fast fight with huge dmg can be boring also
Thus few thoughts to consider

I wish I will see condi team versus power team and not same build versus same build
Condi should have place to enable diversity is game style
Less bunkering and more support
Thief rework as this role can change the pace of game and not by just decap

what i think funny is when guard and ele took the role of semi bunker/support it was fine but when mesmer took this role is wrong and op

the problem is not with mesmer and rev build (bunker and codni)

the problem with the current meta as state above

too much power
too much cc
too much immunity

those pushed the meta to try condi pressure (with rev,necro) and bunkering too much with mesmer

but if the meta where bit more balance teams wont take 2 condi rev rather more power/support

but with too power you need full support/bunker which mesmer fully geared to do so is great atm. so nerfing the power and cc will lead in less neediness in full bunker mesmer

i love the idea that mesmer can play something else after 3 years of full power shatter
so nerfing bunkering build will ruine it and build diversity

i think what will happen if anet manage to bring back thief and warrior to the comp meta what will happen ….