Guild Wars 2

It is an excellent teamplay mechanic in my opinion, but I guess not everyone plays tourneys.

Imbs what reasonable arguments have you got against downed state

I thought those were great scenarios for tutoring newer players, and I hate to say this after all the effort you put in, but I’m with Apathy. The paid tournaments will hopefully alleviate these concerns. If they don’t I hope we revisit your idea.

Well if you’re not paying attention and constantly getting into fights where you’re outmatched, it’s only natural you have no options. Your options existed before you got into that situation. An ounce of prevention… does… something. I forget. Use brain. If they are being jerks and following you around the map trying to kill you, use this to your team’s advantage and lead them on wild goose chases for as long as you can. Use cc to keep them off you: Pull them to your teammates. Stay with another player so you both don’t get soloed 2v1. A lot of things you can do before you get stun-locked by a thief and war with your stun-break on cooldown (why is your stun-break constantly on cooldown?), not a whole lot you can do once you’re in that situation though.

Broken, the section titled “Why does it exist at all?” might interest you:

“To discourage full teams of burst damage. There are no dedicated healers, there is no one that can save you from a focused spike of damage. If the downed state did not exist, the fastest way to victory would be to concentrate multiple people on one target and kill them quickly, rinse and repeat. This was a very popular tactic in GW1, and was only mitigated by healers “catching” the spike, often needing split-second reactions. If you take away the healers, you need some way to “catch” spikes. Downed state accomplishes this by giving more balanced teams a chance to get a handle on the situation, interrupt finishers and rescue their teammate.”

If you have a thief and a warrior both bursting you, and you’ve already used up your stun break, the appropriate steps are as follows: 1) curl into fetal position; 2) die. I’m not sure what you expect to be able to do. Sometimes it’s just inevitable.

Immobility is a condition and can be removed as such. I agree it’s a bit strange that something so cc-like is actually a condition but we’ll see how things develop.

Check out my reasoning for why the downed state exists and some tactics people can use: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Downed-State-Tutorial

For instance on my engineer I would pop my elixer s before trying to finish you, and I would get my stomp off easily.

Nofe.7269:

From what I remember of GW1 pvp, you stand there with your enemy trading blows. No thanks.

That’s not the gw1 I remember… And I was playing it competitively up until the gw2 release.

Kita.7819:

Conquest is basically meant for zerging since there are so many variables involved.

What we need are more narrow and straightforward modes, like the Control Point thing I mentioned. For example, in Nifhel, the Red team should not be able to take the Mine (Blue’s closest point) unless they have the Keep. This means that instead of having fighting spread out everywhere, its kept close together. There would be more team battles because of this.

Zerging means to have lots of people attack together. Conquest discourages zerging because there are multiple points to maintain. Your suggestions would only increase zergging by having singular locations where everyone would meet up at and fight for.

Ahlen.7591:

People who are downed shouldn’t contribute to team-fights at all, is the point I’m trying to make. Please try to add to the discussion instead of uselessly trolling.

I’m not trolling. Why do you think you can just decide what downed people should or should not do?

I can’t buy another copy of gw2 for my brother. It says that my credit card information is not correct, but it’s been checked and rechecked many times. We even tried another credit card and we got the same error. I’m able to successfully make purchases with the same credit card everywhere else. I sent a support ticket long ago (before digital sales were disabled) and this has yet to be resolved. it’s possible there may be a bug in the buy system, since I’ve read about some other people having this problem from google search results.

Feothyr.6072:

Tournaments aren’t really an option for me, because as I already said, we’re just looking for some casual fun. I don’t want to spend hours looking for other people, disucssing strategies, etc etc.

You can enter with a partial roster, and it will automatically fill in your remaining players. Lots of people use the free tournament system to play with a friend. You don’t need to discuss strategy if you don’t want to. Just enter and play. Try it.

Given your requirements, it seems that free tournaments are exactly what you are looking for. These will become much more appealing once paid tournaments are introduced, since “skilled” players would be more occupied with that. I understand that you strongly wish to play with your friends in a casual pvp setting, but there may not exist a scenario the developers would accept where groups can play pug spvp together easily. In my opinion they are justified in the interest of fairness.

Ulari.9547:

— I want to group with my friends and compete in sPvP.

We all do! tpvp allows us to play with our friends easily.

Ulari.9547:

— I do not want to PUG (pick-up-group) stomp.

Well, even if you don’t, other people certainly would. If there is any possibility that abuse can happen in this regard, I think it’s in everyone’s interest to stop it.

Ulari.9547:

— I do not want to have to coordinate a tournament team when I have only two additional friends online.

You’ve already got 3/5 people. You only need to enter a free tournament and you will automatically be given the last 2 players you need. Automatically! you don’t need to “coordinate” anything. This is almost identical to being in a regular spvp server with 2 of your friends and 2 randoms on the same team. What’s the difference? The difference is that in tournaments you will fight challenging and organized opponents sometimes. Or you will fight another team that had a partial roster like you did. This is more fair in my opinion than allowing you and your friends to face off against 5 other completely random people.

Ulari.9547:

— I do not want to ‘fight the system’ to join my friends (switching teams during the match).

This is normal. In many games with similar systems it’s expected that players would like to organize onto one side. It’s not impossible, it’s just difficult. Many people simply stop trying.

No, I like both. They are different. I think gw2 has the same spirit as the first, but they got rid of things that didn’t work too well and introduced some new ideas. Once you get into it you realize, like the first game, there is more depth here than what appears on the surface.

Hi. There’s a lot of misunderstanding going on so let me lay a framework that can help us have better conversations about the downed state. I’m not a developer, but I think I understand it enough to make assumptions about its purpose in pvp.

What is the downed state?
When your health reaches 0 you are given a second health bar, 4 new skills, and are unable to move. You slowly lose health. Death only occurs if your health reaches 0 again, or someone “finishes” you. You can come back to your regular self if your health reaches full, or an enemy you’ve damaged recently dies.

Why does it exist at all?
To discourage full teams of burst damage. There are no dedicated healers, there is no one that can save you from a focused spike of damage. If the downed state did not exist, the fastest way to victory would be to concentrate multiple people on one target and kill them quickly, rinse and repeat. This was a very popular tactic in GW1, and was only mitigated by healers “catching” the spike, often needing split-second reactions. If you take away the healers, you need some way to “catch” spikes. Downed state accomplishes this by giving more balanced teams a chance to get a handle on the situation, interrupt finishers and rescue their teammate.

Why do I get interrupted all the time trying to finish people?
All classes have some kind of skill that stops you from finishing them (except elementalists at the moment, sorry). You can, and should, use skills that help minimize the risk of being interrupted.
These include any skills that offer you:

• stability
• stealth (if they can’t target you, they can’t interrupt you)
• evasion
• blind or block (in situations vs physical cc such as from a warrior)

You should strongly consider bringing a utility skill that offers one of these in order to help finish downed players quickly. It can be very important.

How am I getting interrupted multiple times by the same person!
Their skills recharged. You waited too long to finish them, or were kept busy for long enough. There are very useful skills on slot 3 of downed players. The recharge times are balanced so that if you are 1v1 you should not have much trouble finishing them. Example:

1. You down an engineer.
2. You begin your finishing move on them.
3. They wait until the last possible millisecond and use their cc skill to interrupt you.
4. You begin your finishing move again.
5. They die.

If you wait more than a few seconds after their first interrupt, the engineer will have his skill 3 available which is a large explosion knocking enemies away, and you will waste more time trying to down them. The downed mechanic is not meant to prevent you from finishing your enemy when they are alone. It is meant to give their team a chance to rescue them if they are near.

Mesmer and Thief downed states are OP!
No, they’re not.

• When you’re finishing a mesmer and they disappear, their clone will appear, and then a second later somewhere else they will appear. There will be a giant red down arrow over their heads. That’s them.
• When the thief disappears, just move to cancel your finisher (save time), walk over and finish them again.

Earlier I was downed but the enemy didn’t try to finish me?
Yup. If you’re downed, you’re next to useless. You can’t kill yourself, and any damage you take will interrupt your heal. You were playing against a good player that realized this, and was trying to keep you in limbo for as long as possible so you didn’t respawn. A variant on this is to simply wait for the timer to hit the next respawn interval (I don’t remember when they are) and then finish you, so you are dead for the longest time possible.

I’ll add more as I think of them.

Hey guys here’s a few public service announcements:

When you’re downing a mesmer and they disappear, their clone will appear, and then a second later somewhere else they will appear. There will be a giant red down arrow over their heads. That’s them.

Thieves do not get two interrupts. In fact they don’t even get 1. When you go to finish them and they disappear, just hit escape to cancel your finisher (save time), walk over and finish them.

It does not take forever to finish these 2 classes. It’s actually pretty straight forward. If you are unable to finish someone because they have support from their team you have 2 options: 1) cry in forums; 2) deal with it. Also there is another tactic you might try which is to continue to damage them with ranged if you have it. Or not. Whatever.

Here are some downed state tactics: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Downed-State-Tutorial

Plague.5329:

We got bykittengood with RAs in GW1 for nearly a decade. We didn’t need any sissy Svanirs nor glowing circles. We just straight up killed each other. And life was good.

Until you faced a team with a monk.

Guys how do I get better armor in pvp??? I am dying a lot pls help.

This guy is amazing! I don’t understand a word he’s saying about anything! He probably fought a high rank team that time his resses so he sit dead for a long time.

If the thief pops his stealth to finish you, he pays the price of its CD and not using it during his fight with you. If some class has specifically slotted a utility skill for stomping, they pay the price of not having another skill that may help them more in fights. In other words the situation was to their disadvantage during fights and their advantage is during the stomp. They were probably the better player. Just accept it and move on.

Pete.6037:

milo.6942:

This is how the game is played and is completely normal. You will be seeing more of it. You should learn to do it as well.

Are you saying, the solution to counter OP classes, is to play that OP class?

Not really. I mean sure, in general if a class seems good, then play it. But I just meant the specific theme of some kind of invulnerability when going for the stomp is exactly what you’re supposed to do. Stealth, Stability, Block, Blind, Quickness, whatever. Everyone cries about downed state having a cc ability that interrupts you — plan for it.

If you have a burning need to pvp while you learn your class you could try WvW. Everything stays the same but your stats and level are bumped up to 80. Then again PvE is really the place to learn your class and skills if you want to take it slow.

I don’t know what people are talking about with the win/loss ratios, as far as I know there is no such thing. I’d guess there won’t ever be such a thing in pug spvp so you won’t have to stress out about your rank when you’re just unwinding or whatever.

I can only assume there might be some kind of personal elo rating that is updated after tournaments, and if I had to make a further guess I’d say maybe only after paid tournaments when they implement them. At least I hope so.

In any case it seems natural that they would implement a personal rating system. Forming groups at the moment for tourneys look for high “glory rank” which is odd because you can use glory boosters.

Maybe the developers had something in mind when they chose these skills.

Who ever made a rule that you have to rely completely on your team to get back up? (spolier: no one) If a downed enemy can win a fight against you then gg man, I don’t know if you want to be telling the whole world about that.

You will be more appreciative of it when you are downed with someone about to finish you and your team knocks him away and rescues you.

This is how the game is played and is completely normal. You will be seeing more of it. You should learn to do it as well.

Yea Jon, but we’re hearing reports that getting matched against other premades is “challenging”, whereas many would like to gather all their friends and play against unorganized teams in a more “casual” format.

Varonth.5830:

What you call teamplay is a bunch of people having the same goal, but everyone is doing his own business for this goal. Then add some team-tactics like you go there, you hold this point etc, and there you go… teamplay? Sorry that’s not teamplay in from my point of view.

If that’s the best strategy you can muster I don’t think it’s the game’s fault.

As to your other complaints of there not being good enough support and there being too much damage I suppose you could continue to carry on believing we should have monks again like in gw1, but I think the developers are taking the game in a different direction.

Varonth.5830:

If you are looking for GW1 like teamplay, you will not find it in tournament play either.
Don’t know how many in here actually played GW1 HoH or GvG, but GW2 sPvP isn’t close to what kind of teamplay is involved in GW1.

Give it time.

Post the video?

This is completely inappropriate and feel free to ignore me:

how do i shot arrow herp

Edit:
ok i feel bad. You can kite by moving away from your enemy. Moving backwards is slow — don’t do that. Strafe sideways in circles while facing them. You can only shoot arrows if you’re facing your opponent. Use some kind of slow on the enemy to keep them where you want them.

Edit2: OP’s post is gone but thread is still here? This is awkward.

Sykotron.3768:

It’s not a full premade here which is an important distinction.

Did you know you could join a free tournament with a partial roster and get matched with other partials for a full team?

bump for great justice

Glucose.7608:

frustrated players might find more relief in creating a build that counters popular tactics than demanding they be changed.

“Hmm…
Nah! The game developers must not have a clue what they’re doing! I’ve got to set them straight!”

I’m glad you rolled thief.

/engineer

It wasn’t the specific number that mattered, though it was convenient for my argument. Tournament system is there for exactly what you’re talking about: premade vs premade.

Darkrachet.8732:

Im r22 now and I hate the downed and water combat.

Rank 22.
The fastest glory gain is running around with glass cannon in pug spvp.
Downed state helps protect against high dps builds.

“I hate downed state because its purpose is to help counter-act my burst.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glory

That’s all I got

Jow.5920:

Thanks for the replies. I guess I’ll try this tournament thing. Hopefully it’s better.

Thanks for the reasonable attitude!

Sykotron.3768:

If 5 people queue together then force them into a match where 5 others queued together and fill the rest of the team with same sized groups (or individuals).

Pretty cool idea man. Maybe they could call this system “free tournament”.

everreal using brain, people should pay attention

Ulari.9547:

Is there going to be any improvement made to allow two to four friends to play sPVP together (on the same team)?

It’s already been addressed and they said they would not be making any major changes for balance reasons.

Fatal.7136:

The amount of times I’ve lost a 1v2 or 1v3+ because I was constantly interrupted trying to finish an opponent is ridiculous.

That’s kinda the point of downed state.

We’ll see about that

flasper.1968:

But 1 is going to occur a lot more often than 2.

That’s extremely naive and unrealistic in my opinion.

all class except the elementalist have interrupt/tele right away…

The elementalist is also many times more versatile than the thief. If we are just considering how many key-presses and brain cells you have to rub together to kill an unskilled opponent then the thief would probably need fewer.

flasper.1968:

Think about it, you’re saying that you don’t want to let a group of 2 people join an 8v8 because it won’t be fair to the other team, but you want those same 2 people to join a tournament where there is a good chance that they will face a 5 man premade in a 5v5 match. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

The two outcomes from allowing small parties to join spvp together:

1. You can play with your friends easily
2. skilled players can dominate servers

The first improves your game experience. The second ruins the game experience for everyone else.

If they are so good you should play them. I would love it if everyone played hs thieves.

/engineer