(edited by milo.6942)
Oh my god man how can you mistake the ele’s downed arrow for the mesmer’s. /facepalm
Hsulf… Yes. The big arrow with a skull. Can you see how it’s not actually above the clone but to the left? That is the real mesmer half a second before coming out of stealth. Like 2 seconds after that frame you see the camera move to the right and you can clearly see the real mesmer behind the clone.
Looking closer at the video it’s clear the clone does not have the downed arrow. The mesmer goes down and has the target reticule and the downed arrow. Then he disappears. The guy is looking around everywhere and then the clone shows up with only a tiny red triangle signifying it is the target, then behind a him second later appears the real mesmer with the downed arrow. The camera angle makes it look like they may both have the downed arrow, but a second later the camera pans to the right and you can clearly see the clone in front with nothing but a tiny red triangle, and the real mesmer with the big down arrow.
Hsulf, I have been paying attention to mesmer downed state while I fight for weeks now. It’s never been the case for me that the clone had a down arrow, or that the real mesmer didn’t have one. Not once. I think it’s misleading to all those reading that you continue to act as if there was some kind of controversy or widespread bug on this issue, when there’s not.
On a slightly more embarrassing note, after the screens I posted I actually stomped the clone next to him because I had not properly targeted the real mesmer. It could be that some small amount of confusion on this issue is due to targeting issues like the one I just had.
Yes I saw the video and it does seem like both have something red above their heads but it’s impossible to see clearly. I think my screenshot is better because shows what I’m talking about plain as day. Go into spvp until you find a mesmer, down him and you will see that it’s not true that the clone has a down arrow. Many people are misinformed about mesmer downed state and your posts aren’t helping.
edit: you are right I didn’t think to take a screenshot after I stomped him, however it does clearly show that only 1 of the 2 “gillians” has the arrow.
(edited by milo.6942)
Here, I went into spvp just for you.
http://imgur.com/a/63j7A
A mesmer was downed and then teled, leaving the clone next to me (no down arrow), while the real mesmer was further away (down arrow).
He’s got no idea what we’re talking about. I’m trying to find a mesmer to fight so I can take a screenshot.
The tip isn’t true as the arrow is above BOTH the clone and the mesmers head.
That’s incorrect. Only the real mesmer has the giant red down arrow. The clone does not. It’s really surprising how many people don’t understand mesmer downed state.
(edited by milo.6942)
ChillyChinaman.6057 You are so looking at this the wrong way… The reason these illusions is making it so hard while their downed is not the number of “things” damaging you, It’s the fact that you may have to use your finished 3-4 times because you can’t tell which one’s the real one in the confusion of seing more than one player added with the fact that the actual player moves around.
This is an example of a post from someone who has no idea what is going on in a fight. You couldn’t have tried using your finisher 3 times because the mesmer can only make 1 downed clone. Also a tip: the real mesmer is the one with a red downed arrow above his head.
It would be great if we could have a merged mists for spvp purposes. I get the sense of community thing that they trying to do, but I don’t think it is going to work out for heart of the mists. Alternatively I think a robust cross server lfg system could work out as well, and may even work out better (especially when server guesting comes). It would virtually eliminate chat spam (like the gw1 lfg system tried to do) and allow you to see if maybe there was a server that had a lot of good pvpers that you keep meeting from the lfg system, so maybe you keep guesting there to meet them, and then you decide you want to transfer. It could help maintain that whole server community thing they’ve been wanting. Possibly.
I was in a Tpvp with 5 thieves…
Yeah, ppl choise them because they are fun to play………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
I’ve fought a few full (or mostly full) thief teams in tpvp and they are pretty bad. They can’t hold points, and they’re kitten in team fights. You just focus on 1 thief at a time and if they down one of yours you got allies nearby that can res. That’s the important thing, really. Don’t get caught alone if you can’t handle them.
2 thieves is a bit much imo, 1 thief is a good ganker especially to ninja boss on forest
Shatter wants a word with you
Exactly my point. Once they shatter they’ve got nothing.
I feel like I’m in some alternate universe. What is everyone talking about? There is no indication the k/d ratio is publicly visible. If it is just a private statistic it won’t affect tourny grouping at all.
I just don’t understand these kinds of posts. If you are tanky, the phantasms don’t deal large damage, if you are glass cannon just 3-hit them if they are giving you problems. I don’t remember any situation where I downed a mesmer and he had all his illusions still up to harass me.
There should not be an instant-suicide button, as others have said it would take away important strategic elements. Others have said there could be a suicide button with a cooldown of about 10-15 seconds, but that is already about as long as bleeding out takes if you don’t try to heal yourself.
Sure you could just let yourself bleed out like you do now but you might not realize that’s their intention (to leave you there) till you’re 3/4s up.
In this regard I would say it is a matter of your experience in judging the situation to decide what to do. In most scenarios vs good players it’s simply best to bleed out.
Hello. There are no dedicated healers in this game. If you have a full team focus on 1 enemy he will go down fast. Downed state turns everyone into a healer that can revive him. It doesn’t matter what other games you are used to, in gw2 everyone has second health bar. Enemies are not dead when their 1st health bar goes to 0. There are many strategies to downed state and there are skills you can bring to help you finish a downed player. It is up to you to prepare for it.
just went to pvp browser 43 servers that had +10 players… and a lot of ppl have a team already and no it’s not dead
Tournaments. Not spvp.
It looks like just personal statistics about yourself that you can view but others can’t.
Of all the problems moa has, this one is the least.
There are plenty of other threads about the skill’s questionable balance. It’s nice to have one we can all agree on.
This is a reasonable request I think and I agree
merciless why are you still posting
your question is why do people say don’t fight the guardian
the answer is it’s a waste of time if you’re not set up for it
the end?
Well, they need to have their burst like warriors do. If you get nailed by the full combo you might die. It’s likely this is what arenanet wants. But once they’ve done their combo and if you’re not dead yet they can just stealth, heal up, regen init and try again.
I don’t play thief btw, just my observation on the other end of things so maybe I’m misjudging the issue.
I agree, thieves can reset fights too easily with stealth and have very high burst. I don’t think their burst is too much of a problem, it’s that they are not as vulnerable to counterattack if they fail as other burst classes.
good post mate, wish to see more like these
Bunker Build<<<<<<<<<< Everything Else >>>>>>>>>>>> Glass Cannon
This is the range of the classes in the game right now. The 2 outside points are way too strong at what they do.
Are some other builds effective? Sure they are. But not to the extent that bunkers and glass cannons are.
You are focusing too much on 1v1 situations. Support and CC have important roles to play. Anyway, if you insist on arguing that balanced doesn’t have a place then here is the win chart:
glass cannon > bunker
bunker > balanced
balanced > glass cannon
To the people saying every class should be able to 1v1 a bunker:
- can a bunker win a 1v1 with a bunker?
- no
- can a poorly specced player with no damage kill a bunker?
- no
- can a balanced player with reasonable damage and utility kill a bunker?
- yes — given enough time
- but in reality you won’t because their roamer will show up
- yes — given enough time
- can a glass cannon / high-damage kill a bunker?
- yes. this is the correct way to deal with bunkers.
- kill bunker before their team comes, or gtfo
- yes. this is the correct way to deal with bunkers.
Of course they want to. But you also got to accept that not everything you’d want to play is going to be viable. Also there is player perception about what is good and what isn’t which may not include some builds that are just as effective but less popular.
to kill high defense, you need high damage. if you don’t have high damage or cc to knock him off, you are just wasting time.
You can defend downed state as much as you like it still doesn’t change how incredibly stupid it is that you cannot stop someone from rezzing without an interrupt ability, something not every class has.
And that you can heal someone faster than someone can deal damage to them, especially if you account for the self-healing.
Someone goes down: Time to finish: 3 second animation Time to rezz by ally: 2 second with self-healing.
Yeah…sounds fine.
name class that doesn’t have interrupt
No, it’s because even if you do kill someone in a 2v1, it’s worthless because he’ll just rally once you go down.
It’s because no amount of skillful play allows you to overcome a number disparity.
It’s because of the unbalanced downed abilities.
It’s because it’s a tactical advantage in tPvP to leave someone downed, rather than finish them off.
It’s bad because it really limits tactical choices. Either completely wipe out an enemy force or it’ll be waste. No point in wearing down a zerg in WvW when everyone can rezz you in a matter of seconds.
It’s because for a game that prides itself with not having any targeted healing, rezzing is just that.
They’re not going to remove it.
The reason you’re having so much trouble with downed state is because you’re focusing on your dps.
It is easy to overcome a number disparity if you’re prepared for their downed state. I’m not convinced you care to get better, so I won’t say more.
I’d like to see ele #2 become a ride the lightning to random area kinda skill. would be fun
OP’s (and his team’s) skill is relevant to this discussion. In fact, it is inseparable. On the issue of the thief, am I the only one that noticed the majority of fights that ended in 2 seconds were when the OP was already at 50%? He demonstrated a lack of awareness regarding his surroundings and how bunkers play together with their team’s roamer. I’m just going to focus on this aspect to keep my post short.
OP displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the way the game is played (it’s not about winning your 1v1), as well as lack of skill with his class and inexperience dealing with the enemy’s builds and tactics (i’m not bashing him, it is just true).
There are two discussions that can be had: 1 is about how to play properly, and 2 is about which combinations of skills are too powerful. It’s impossible to talk about 2 if not everyone agrees on 1. Quick example being mesmer downed state tele+stealth+clone, everyone thought it was OP until they discovered how it really worked. I’ve not had a single problem with mesmer downed state once I understood how to play vs them.
At the clocktower, all it takes is a single knockback to push him off the side and you guys could have capped the point (or at minimum neutralizing it), without even wasting time trying to kill the guardian. Which, by the way, could have been done by 1 person.[edit: i don’t play necro, but you may even say that it was the op that could have single-handedly neutralized the node for his team if he had thought to fear the guardian off the point] No one had any cc. It appears everyone was not dealing a whole lot of damage either, and were in fact taking a great deal of it instead. Which is why I conclude that we have a case of everyone not being great players and being set up poorly for this situation. To say nothing of the repeated attempts by OP to solo the guardian which were simply ridiculous…
We can’t have a discussion about whether guardians are op (using this video) because we’ve not seen the OP play well. In other words to put it into an extreme context, if the OP stood around doing nothing of course he would lose. If the OP had done everything possible to win we might assume he would have won. OP is towards the beginning of this scale because it seems as if he is using skills randomly without much thought. We have little way of judging the guardian’s skill level. Maybe the guardian was simply a much better player. Maybe guardian is very OP and needs to be nerfed. It’s impossible to say. The only thing we can say is, the OP makes a poor case.
(edited by milo.6942)
Reading several comments here I think most of you miss the point the op wants to make entirely. It is not about how good or how bad someone is or how he got into certain situations.
It is about how some skills work and what effects they have – regardless of the situation.
Whatever merit any of the points may have had is overshadowed by the inability to play properly. It’s not simply “those things are OP and that’s the end of the story”. It’s “There are strong abilities and playstyles that I need to be aware of and act properly against.” Many people seem to be taking OP’s defense with the mistaken idea that a team with bad builds and little experience should not get crushed by players that know how to play.
This is my hunch as to why we have cap point pvp system instead of death-match. Also, they need to adjust scoring in spvp to give higher win bonus.
It’s nice to see someone who has the balls to show a gameplay video, though. A lot of people like to complain, but they aren’t brave enough to show a video of their gameplay. I hope you learn something from the comments =)
Yea I’m gonna have to agree there.
A parallel thought I have is, “this guy must not have any clue how bad he is to start recording with the idea to prove there’s something wrong with the game.”
Edit: basically, if i could only say 1 thing it would be this: the objective of the game is not to win every fight — it’s to have the highest point total. if you lose sight of that you will waste time trying to kill players that are just trolling you.
The first 2 clips were showing Stealth stomps, which are IMPOSSIBLE to counter, which, in my opinion, and many others’, is an issue.
Speaking from the perspective of your allies, it is not. If your allies are unprepared to deal with stealth stomps, you will always die to them. There are many other ways to “protect” stomps and also “break” these protections. It is a level of play you seem to be unaware of.
The 3rd clip, it was us 4 versus them 3 on that point, so that’s why all of us were there. If you watch closely, I finish 2 people myself. But the point of that clip was showing you how the Thief single handedly kept preventing us from capturing the point by popping in and out of stealth. Yes, my AOE’s missed, but honestly, that Thief was all over the place.
OK. So what? Are all 4 of you going to stand there trying to find him while his team caps the other 2 points? Play to win, don’t get tunnel vision trying to kill something that’s taking too long to kill.
The 4th clip, referencing the Mesmers’ Moa skill, was just an example of Moa being used in a battle and how huge of an advantage it gives to the Mesmer. Yes, that Mesmer was owning me to begin with. Yes, I could have used a better clip; all I’d have to do is play tPvP for an hour and I’m sure I could get one.
Yea, moa is vicious. I’ll give you a break on that.
The 5th clip, where it’s us 3 v 1 Guardian, I explicitly state that it takes way too long to down him as obviously the Guardians’ 4 other team mates can capture the other nodes AND come to help while he’s still surviving everything we’re throwing at him. I know the point of a Bunker Guardian, but that doesn’t make it less ridiculous. No, I was not complaining about the Guardians’ downed state #2, I was just explaining what was happening for those who wouldn’t know. But again, that obviously bought more time for his Thief friend to come in and help.
You guys are outputting pretty low damage and no one has any useful cc to knock him off the point. His thief friend came back quickly (like he always does) and you guys are all low health (from a guardian…) and can’t muster a counter attack fast enough. From start to finish, it was a bad play by your team. You are simply crying here.
The last 2 clips are obviously showing what happens when a Thief comes from behind and how effective he is at turning the tide of a battle and ending it because of his high burst skills, which a lot of people are talking about. I could have been doing a 1 v 1 against any class, and the same kitten would happen from a Thief.
You didn’t take my last reply to heart on this issue. If the three of you couldn’t kill the guardian fast enough before his ally came, what made you think it was a good idea to try it again solo?
(edited by milo.6942)
This is great news, thanks for the info.
I don’t get this video… he gets into terrible situations and then wants to say the game is not balanced…
I’m not flaming you, Merciless, and I don’t play necro, but the repeated banging-head-against-wall that was done at clocktower was pretty impressive. After the first time, it should have been clear that it wasn’t productive to assault clocktower alone. It just betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game works.
The guardian is hard to kill — yes. It is not impossible, however. Given enough time, you could probably have killed that guardian. But you don’t seem to understand that the guardian is in voip with his team. All he has to say is “hey someone come clocktower and kill this necro”. A bunker’s purpose is to waste your time while he keeps the point capped for his team. A roamer’s duty is to be looking for easy kills. You don’t have enough damage to kill the guardian quickly. At 50% health with skills on cooldown, the thief comes and insta kills you. It’s not a mystery how this happened.
Just so you guys are clear, you fight against basically everyone (all servers) when you enter battle, the issue is you don’t have access to all those players when forming a team.
In foefire quarry, where the fireworks are behind it, if you jump just as the match is about to start you’ll remain there when match countdown starts. I don’t know if this is specific to that location, or jumping at match start in general.
Where’d you get this info?
I don’t believe glory rank is supposed to be associated with player skill. It seems like just a reward system that provides tiered rewards depending on playtime (like level in pve). In other words the reason you can’t see people’s glory rank is because it shouldn’t matter, and there should be a more accurate player rating involved that would show you what a player’s skill level was. I believe they will add this later.
I kind of agree with the OP. I think these kinds of posts will go away when the ranking system gets put into place. Really, the purposes of pvp are to show how good you are, and to be challenged at an appropriate level. One is to show off (which can’t be underestimated…), and the other is to have fun. I don’t think either of these are being fulfilled as they should be at the moment.
It’s an exploit… I’ve been shown how it can be done.
I’ve seen it before. Not sure if anet knows.
Rell, imagine you could see how many overflows there were, and easily swap between them. That was gw1
Hi there. In GW1 hammer could keep you on the ground for quite a while, but the trade off for hammer cc was that it didn’t do as much damage. You were also vulnerable to damage yourself since you did not have a shield. You really could not be full health killed by a hammer while cc’ed because it just did not have enough damage to do so. A good hammer warrior could get you close to death while cc’ed but you still had enough time on your feet that you could respond, and it took a lot longer to build the adrenaline back up to do another knockdown chain. That does not seem to be the case in gw2.
I don’t want to be rude, but it’s obvious you haven’t played the game in a while. I was talking about w/a and a/w combinations that quick swapped between daggers and hammer to chain kd and dagger attacks. I used to run a similar variant with my a/p dagger/spear and permanent daze+cripple (it was vicious). And anyway a regular hammer warrior did considerable damage with his attack sequence, and was completely capable of killing defenseless players that weren’t prepared or specced properly. My point was, these things were known. You always slotted a defensive skill if you were a squishy class in random arenas (or team arenas when that was around), because if a burst caught you, it was over. Sure there were lots of players (we’ll call them ‘newer’ players) that didn’t spec for health and toughness and didn’t have a shield set and and defensive skills… these were the players that were easy to kill without any effort. And here we are in gw2, in a topic about over the top burst, from players that (probably) aren’t specced properly and feel that they shouldn’t have to slot a stunbreaker just for those pesky burst characters.
It will keep the classes that use them too simple (and boring), and will either be mandatory or useless the way it is.
If you are going for burst damage in those classes, then you must bring quickness to be competitive. Yes. That’s the long and short of it. However it’s not true that to play those classes you must necessarily go for burst damage.
Funny, the massive burst and super short TTK makes this feel like pvp in most MMO’s. Was really hoping fights would be slower and take more skill.
Fights would not end in 3 seconds if you had some defense and stunbreaks, then you would have 45 seconds minimum to kill your opponent before the next burst.
Necro/ele don’t have high reward specs sorry.
All classes are different. Each has specialties.