Guild Wars 2

Blade Syphon.4325:

Zypher.7609:

I really can’t believe all the people that want the wardrobe to be free. Really so you get the skin once and can use it when ever you want free of charge? How do you think this game is paid for? You do not pay monthly, you do not have to pay for the April 15th patch. Really I think you just want a game you log into, gets updated when ever you want but then you also get every single thing in the game. Just for the heads up the people that do the updating would like to get paid for the work they do.

Just do some thinking before screaming greedy company.

Or..perhaps you should do some research on games outside of GW2?

I’ve said in another topic that there are plenty of Free to Play games that offer a Wardrobe system like GW2 without charging free players a dime to use it outside of in-game currency.

Why is it okay for GW2, than, to do something like this? Why do they get a free pass? People are upset because this is a system that is free in nearly every other game out there, including Free to Play titles.

Hell, Diablo 3’s expansion launched with a system that’s almost identical to GW2’s, and it doesn’t cost anything other than in-game gold to use. Remind me again why GW2 feels it’s okay to charge people for a feature that should be free?

Because they charge for other things. Every game has a different approach for monetization. This is the route GW2 took. Nothing is changing here.

Neural.1824:

mtpelion.4562:

Neural.1824:

None of those points addresses the issue of dyes already unlocked on individual characters being converted to account bound or not.

It’s a logic problem, not an explicit statement.

1. Dye will be unlocked on the account, not the character.
2. Duplicate character unlocks will reward you with unidentified dyes.
3. In order to determine if duplicate unlocks exist, they must first become account unlocks.
Ergo: Current character unlocks will have to become account unlocks in order to determine if you are entitled to any duplicate unlock bonus dyes.

1 glob of ectoplasm says that’s not how it ends up happening. This is Anet we’re talking about.

Well, the alternative would be for them to delete all of your dyes and give you nothing unless you had 2 or more of them, and that would result in an actual angry mob burning down their building so I doubt they are going that route.

moorindal.2635:

Ok, I’ll rephrase. …. Rather than, “receiving one unidentified dye for each duplicate dye already unlocked on your account” a more fair system would be to receive x number of unidentified dyes based on the rarity of the duplicate dye already unlocked on your account. Perhaps maybe even this would work…. receive one unidentified dye of equal rarity for each duplicate dye already unlocked on your account.

A “fair system” would be for you to get no unidentified dyes at all. You’re already getting more than you deserve so be happy with it!

It’s like this:
6 months ago you bought 2 new computers and put 1 in one room and 1 in a second room. You paid $3,000 for those 2 new computers.

6 months ago I bought 1 new computer and put it in one room in my house. I paid $1,500 because I only got 1 computer.

Today, the computer company is calling you up to tell you that on 4/15, they will give you a new, free computer for every room in your house and on top of that, you’ll be getting a free random electronic device since you had bought 2 computers in the past. I’m also getting some free computers for every room in my house, but I’m not getting the free random electronic device because I only bought 1 computer in the past.

Now, you’re completely ignoring the fact that you are being given THOUSANDS of dollars worth of free stuff and are instead focusing on the fact that you don’t believe that the free random electronic device will be worth $1,500.

Price of dyes will drop as the supply increases.

The volume of any given dye is pretty low, so there weren’t that many “cheap” dyes on the market to begin with. As they are going up in price, there will actually be an incentive to craft them now so as the newly crafted dyes hit the market the prices will once again plummet.

As for the people attempting to convert the cheap dyes into unidentified dye on 4/15, there is a finite limit on the number of unidentified dyes they can possibly get, and the price of those will tank on patch day since there will be a HUGE number of unidentified dyes hitting the market.

There won’t be any millionaires as a result of this. Some people may make some money early, but it will be very limited and MOST people who engage in dye speculation are going to lose a lot of cash.

Aisina.4963:

My first reaction was to explode with elation too tbh
Many things were shouted like “AHHH * insert expensive skins here * ON EVERYTHING!”
Suddenly felt like the gold I spent on things like Halloween skins I was too lazy to get at the time and promptly regretted, was well spent. Now all of my Necromancers can have a Scythe for example and it wont constantly kill me that I had to choose between them.

Then I sat down with my takeaway pizza and thought about it. I realised that while I was effectively saving money in some areas, I was losing it in others. My addiction to T3 Asura Light Armour had proven to be my downfall, as I bought a new set each time my Elementalist changed build. I wondered if I’d ever see that money again, and doubted it, and it made me a bit meh.

Then I wondered if my GW2 town clothes tshirt was going to be in the locker, would I finally get to share that out?! Im now staring at my pizza box trying to decide if I should let myself hope and be excited. I’ve been hopping in my seat so many times before, only to be let down, and it does make me wary of getting invested in it.

Also, account bound dyes – annoying on some points where there are expensive dyes duplicated. But on the other hand, the Abyss dye i accidentally used on my elementalist thats never seen the light of day, might now get some use!

I think it comes down to trust. If this next month goes well, ANet is back on track to earning my trust as a player and paying consumer. But until then I’ll keep on being wary, and maybe finish my pizza ^.^

Aisi~

Well… now I’m going to have to get pizza for dinner.

Neural.1824:

None of those points addresses the issue of dyes already unlocked on individual characters being converted to account bound or not.

It’s a logic problem, not an explicit statement.

1. Dye will be unlocked on the account, not the character.
2. Duplicate character unlocks will reward you with unidentified dyes.
3. In order to determine if duplicate unlocks exist, they must first become account unlocks.
Ergo: Current character unlocks will have to become account unlocks in order to determine if you are entitled to any duplicate unlock bonus dyes.

moorindal.2635:

Personally, I’m thrilled over account-bound dyes. However, much like others have posted, feel like I’m not being adequately compensated for the amount of $$ I’ve put into purchasing dyes to get the various looks on my toons. Rather than getting a single unidentified dye for each duplicate, perhaps a more fair approach would be to give fixed number of dyes based on the rarity of the duplicated dye. So, for a basic we get 1, fine 2, masterwork 4, rare 8. Just a thought.

It isn’t compensation… it is a free bonus dye.
You were already compensated for the dye you purchased when you received the dye you paid for.

Awbee.8405:

mtpelion.4562:

Why? This isn’t the real world where the wealthy can use their assets to deny you access to basic needs (governments exist to protect the assets of the minority wealthy from the majority poor and the majority poor from financial harm from the minority wealthy). No amount of wealth in this game can be used to impact another player.

Of course it can. Anything you may want to buy off the TP is influenced by it. If I want to buy crafting mats or armor, or a rare tonic or transmute item that has such a low drop chance that farming for it is pointless, I have to go to the TP and pay inflated prices. Just imagine if I wanted to buy new dyes today …

I welcome you to hop over to the Trading Post forum and read all about the many manipulation attempts people have tried. It doesn’t work because this economy is huge. Those prices are not inflated, they match the supply and demand for the item. People with lots of wealth have tried to impact other players by setting higher prices. What happens is those prices immediately fall because there is a huge volume of items that can immediately be listed for a lesser price. The wealthy guy loses his shirt, and the only people who are impacted are those who couldn’t wait 6 hours for the price to return to normal.

Awbee.8405:

mtpelion.4562:

Who is making all this profit?

Anyone who is buying today is going to LOSE money on patch day.

The couple of people who snatched up thousands of blue dyes at 30 copper and resell them for 25 silver now, and who snatched up thousands of green dyes at a couple of silver, selling them for 80 silver now, and the people who snatched up rare dyes for 30 silver selling them for 5 gold now. Those are becoming millionaires at the expense of everyone else. I can’t blame them, but I blame the system that enables it.

If people are flipping today, they are selling to people who want to flip on 4/15. This is just flippers buying from flippers. The guy with the dye on 4/15 is going to be left holding the bag.

Who is making all this profit?

Anyone who is buying today is going to LOSE money on patch day.

danielrjones.8759:

oh yeah, I love how all the chef mats for dyes are going up. very happy.

I figured it wouldn’t take long once the dyes got bought out.

Zach.3264:

mtpelion.4562:

Zach.3264:

Maybe not losing anything directly, but I spent the money to have multiple dyes across my characters, now everyone gets that free.
Not only that, but people who were able to get online first also managed to make hundreds if not thousands of gold from the cheaper blue dyes on the TP.

You still aren’t losing anything. They are gaining stuff and you are gaining stuff. Any negative emotions you have are the result of comparing what you are gaining with what they are gaining. Focus only on what you are gaining and you’ll be happier, especially since what they are gaining has absolutely NO impact whatsoever on you or your ability to enjoy the game.

Again though.. I paid for the privilege of having the top tier dyes across multiple characters. Now everyone gets it free.
It’s somewhat disappointing that I only get a measly Unidentified Dye in return.

I understand your disappointment. It’s like when I pay for the privilege of having a top of the line computer, then 6 months later my sister buys a computer with the same specs for half the price. That’s why I recommend you focus on the positive!

Emma J.1940:

I like the idea of sharings my dyes across all my toons I think it’s a good idea. At least we’ll all get something back for having a duplicate.

BUT…..

What no one has mentioned yet we’re all going to be charged to change colours on armour. At the moment I could change as often as I liked and it didn’t cost me anything (not including costs of any bought dye) now there’s going to be a fee every time I want a new look, how dear is this going to end up being. I know I wont be changing my colours as often as I do now.

There is no mention whatsoever of being charged for dying, only charged for changing an armor skin (exactly the same as it is right now).

There will be NO character unlocks after 4/15. This means that they will have to become account unlocks on 4/15.

Based on the wording in the post, the only other alternative is to DELETE every dye you’ve ever unlocked and give you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return, unless you had unlocked it twice or more, at which point you would get an unidentified dye.

Since the only other alternative is such a horrifically bad one that would cause more rage than anything in gaming history, it is safe to believe that all of your dyes will automatically become account unlocks on 4/15.

Awbee.8405:

The problem I see is that this once again further broadens the gap between the average player with little to no gold and the uber moguls with 1k+ of gold. Something needs to happen about this at some point.

Why? This isn’t the real world where the wealthy can use their assets to deny you access to basic needs (governments exist to protect the assets of the minority wealthy from the majority poor and the majority poor from financial harm from the minority wealthy). No amount of wealth in this game can be used to impact another player.

Zach.3264:

Maybe not losing anything directly, but I spent the money to have multiple dyes across my characters, now everyone gets that free.
Not only that, but people who were able to get online first also managed to make hundreds if not thousands of gold from the cheaper blue dyes on the TP.

You still aren’t losing anything. They are gaining stuff and you are gaining stuff. Any negative emotions you have are the result of comparing what you are gaining with what they are gaining. Focus only on what you are gaining and you’ll be happier, especially since what they are gaining has absolutely NO impact whatsoever on you or your ability to enjoy the game.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, looking at the numbers on the TP, more people are buying up unidentified than selling them.

And I hope those people stick around until I get off of work!

Thaddeus.4891:

No. You are wrong.

Quote : ‘’When you unlock a dye after the feature pack is released, all characters on your account will have unlimited access to that color.’’

The dye you have already unlock won’t be unlock on other character.

Go ahead and read the very next sentence after your quote (from the blog)…

In order for them to give you a free unidentified dye for duplicate account unlocks, you would have to have account unlocks. The only way for you to have account unlocks is for them to convert all of your current character unlocks into account unlocks.

Celtic Lady.3729:

It remains to be seen if the people that bought thousands of unidentified dyes this morning will actually make a profit off their investment. If these people all sell their dyes within a few months of the update, the market will be flooded and prices will drop, maybe below the price they paid. If they’re willing to hold them for more than a year after the update, then yeah, they might make a profit.

Smart people are selling unidentified dyes today, not buying.

Zach.3264:

mtpelion.4562:

You are looking at this the wrong way.

If you have an Abyss dye on 2 of your 5 characters you are not losing 1 Abyss dye, you are gaining 3 free Abyss dyes and 1 Unidentified Dye.

How so?

Have I completely misread the changes page (and the rest of my guild it seems)

From what I understand, I was losing all duplicate dyes, and having them replaced with Unidentified ones?

You aren’t losing anything, you are gaining an Unidentified dye for each dye you have more than one of unlocked already.

Every dye you have unlocked so far will become account unlocked. If you have an Abyss unlocked today, then on April 15 you will be able to use Abyss on ALL of your characters. If you have Abyss unlocked today on 2 characters, then on April 15 you will be able to use Abyss on ALL of your characters AND you will get 1 free Unidentified Dye.

They don’t want to cause unnecessary damage to the dye market. If they suddenly inserted 100,000 Abyss dyes, the price of the Abyss dye would plummet.

Inserting random dyes will keep dyes that have strong demand from being upset.

juno.1840:

Also consider the case where someone bought five Abyss dyes… they get 4 unid dyes. Not as pleasant from that vantage point.

But they don’t lose anything either, so it isn’t “unpleasant” unless they are comparing themselves to others instead of enjoying the free stuff they were given.

nekretaal.6485:

Astralporing.1957:

Astral Projections.7320:

Unless the ‘select ingame rewards’ give a lot of unid dyes it sounds like the main source will be through crafting.

Crafting does not create dyes that can be used for Bifrost.

Neither ones the mystic forge, which gives out pvp account bound dyes.

Main source appears to be from laurels (and black lion chests/gemstore)

The MF recipe is for PvP, you can still get Unidentified Dye from throwing random dyes into the MF, but it’s a pure gamble.

Beorn Saxon.4762:

I’m confused too, it’s not clear.

It says duplicate dyes will get you a refunded unidentified.

It does not state that all dyes you currently have will become account bound.

There is a difference and we can’t assume anything difffernt. Confirmation would be nice.

In order for you to have duplicates, they have to first account bind all of your dye. It isn’t explicitly stated, but that’s the only way the sentence makes any sense.

You are looking at this the wrong way.

If you have an Abyss dye on 2 of your 5 characters you are not losing 1 Abyss dye, you are gaining 3 free Abyss dyes and 1 Unidentified Dye.

juno.1840:

Keeping your laurels is a good move — you can’t get those back with cash or any other means (except time). In a way it’s the most valuable currency in game.

It would be if there was anything worth spending them on.

I would say that it’s more akin to a library of schematics.

You can add as many schematics to your library as you want for free, but in order to alter a piece of gear using a schematic, it costs a Charge.

Thaddeus.4891:

No.

When the patch go live you gonna have 5 Character with the ‘’Special Awesome Dye’’ and you will receive 4 unidentified dyes.

All dyes that you have currently learned will become account dyes when the patch goes live.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Yes, you’re right, it will help them in that regard, but it still doesn’t help them if they wanted to collect outfits and switch them each day for a different look chosen from the skins they’ve bought, found, and otherwise acquired.

Maybe it doesn’t help them, but it certainly doesn’t hurt them. Not every feature is going to be of the same level of value to every player.

Malediktus.9250:

mtpelion.4562:

Malediktus.9250:

I wont spent a dime on transmutation charges. Stupid system is stupid.

Did you ever spend a dime on transmutation crystals?

I cant remember that I did, I think I only used the few ones I got for free during gameplay. But in my 5500hours I only had like 10 free lvl 80 transmutation stones, so I always kept my outfits permanently after finishing a look.

So you, like me, are not the target of this change (I also have never purchased any crystals and keep my outfits permanently). They didn’t really change the system (it still costs you crystals/charges to update your look), they just made it so that you don’t have to fill your inventory up with alternate skins for fear of losing it should you decide to switch it up later.

I’ve got an entire bank tab full of skins I’ve been saving because I didn’t want to use them now, but thought I might want to use them later since they were unique/cool. I’m glad to have the ability to clear out that tab.

Wanze.8410:

If they dont change the recipe for Bifrost, i can see Unids stabilizing over 1g, just like Silver Doubloons have.

This is exactly what I’m anticipating.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Charges make the wardrobe pointless.

Yeah, the skins get unlocked, which is nice. And they are account bound, which is absolutely great.

But as it is, it’s all pointless. Because you are not really unlocking the skins. You are not keeping the skins in a wardrobe of yours. What you are doing is something more like collecting catalogs of skins that you then rent, not the skin themselves.

When I say “unlocks are always better”, I mean GW1 style unlocks:

- Pay once. Want us to buy more stuff? Make more stuff.
- Account wide. After buying it, all characters can use it without buying it gain.

Right now it seems “unlocked” for ANet means “You can still pay for it when we remove it from the gem store”, which would not be that bad for particular things like legendary skins, but not for freaking everything, every single time.

As the cost is on applying the skin, not unlocking the skin, having more skins doesn’t mean you can have more variety in appearance and change more often, it just means you’ll have more skins you can’t use unless you have charges, the skins themselves are therefore not really unlocked, only the access to them, as you still have to pay for them every time you want to use them.

I’d rather have an additional upfront cost for each skin before being able to use them, but pay just once, than this.

The average player will just pick the appearance they like the most, and never change until they get some free charges, is ever. Nothing will force them to buy gems if they don’t want to.

I don’t mind paying for new skins, I would buy any and all new skins if they were unlocked, but this is NOT “unlocked” for me. And I will not pay for the same thing over and over.

Same happens with hairstyles and other character customizations. You have to pay gems each time you change to a hairstyle, instead paying to unlock it, then being able to change to it for some coins by talking to a stylist NPC.

I don’t care much about a system whose only purpose is teasing me with all the things I could have but can’t unless I continuously pay to use something I supposedly already earned.

There’s not even a system in place in which you stop spending charges in a a skin after applying it 10 times or something like that.

Pointless.

Gold to Gems.
Gems to Charges.

Neural.1824:

I noticed in the blog they very deftly danced around the subject of what happens with dyes you’ve currently unlocked, other than to say that if you have one dye unlocked on two characters that you’ll get an unidentified dye as compensation (what an insult to those who bought more than one Abyss).

Considering how Anet likes to dance around the facts to avoid the players getting mad about what is really going to happen, I am guessing that not all current dye colors are going to be converted instantly to account bound, but only newly discovered dyes will. Thus increasing their income as people are forced to buy charges to unlock dyes they already have.

If you already have the same dyes unlocked on multiple characters, when you log in on additional characters, you will receive one unidentified dye for each duplicate dye already unlocked on your account.

How would you have any dyes unlocked on your account if they didn’t convert the existing unlocks to be unlocked on your account?

The answer you seek is there: they will be unlocking all of your known dyes for your account, and then giving you an unidentified dye for any duplicates.

Silencer.7614:

I think you are gonna be upset since they said only dyes that you have duplicates on more then 1 char currently, will become account bound. So there fore you will most likely need to buy another celestial.

I’m in the same boat I have Abyss and White unlocked currently on only 1 character each so I’m probably going to be stuck having to buy a second one of each if I want to continue using them.

I hope I’m wrong but that’s how I understood it.

My other concern is with unidentified dyes no longer dropping after the patch goes live the amount of dyes available on TP will dwindle fast and prices will skyrocket. In fact they already have, even the super cheap dyes have jumped drastically in price since the blog post went live. I really think they need to rethink this slightly.

You misunderstood.

Your Abyss and White dye will be available for ALL of your characters on patch day. If you had learned Abyss on more than one character, you will also get an Unidentified Dye for each extra Abyss you had learned.

Dean Calaway.9718:

I have some 30 crystals just hope they don’t get useless by then because they were bought with gems.

Your Crystals will become Charges at a 1:1 ratio.

Your Stones (sub 80 transmuters) will become Charges at a 3:1 ratio.

Your currently “used” Celestial Dye will become account bound so all of your characters will now have it.

Once the patch goes live, all future dyes will be account bound on use.

Map completion is required to craft a Legendary, plus the 40 crafting materials you get for each one is a nice bonus as well.

Celtic Lady.3729:

People may get a few transmutation charges from stones/crystals now, but they will quickly use them all up playing with looks in the wardrobe and then they’ll all be down to buying more from the store.

You can play with your looks for free. You have to spend charges to enact the look you want though.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

People are saying it will tank in price after update. This is not so as both supply and demand are dropping so it will be inelastic demand like say, washing machines irl. high supply low demand high price. You will still be able to sell to legendary pursuers as that will not be changed. An unid dye will still exist just not obtainable everywhere and make laurels even more valued.

It will tank on patch day, as there will be a huge influx of dyes.

That influx will dry up though and with the reduced access to new Unidentified Dyes, the price will start to go up.

Psychol.5783:

So I’ll receive only 1 unindentified dye for duplicate/triplicate/… dye?

If you have 8 characters and 5 of them have “Special Awesome Dye” now, when this patch goes live you’ll have 8 characters with “Special Awesome Dye” and 4 Unidentified Dyes (you had 5 “Special Awesome Dyes” in use, one of them because the account unlock and the other 4 get “refunded” to you as Unidentified Dyes).

bri.2359:

and from crafting …. (see cooking)

You can’t currently craft an unidentified dye that is able to be used for the Gift of Color. They may change this, but that’s why I left it off the list.

juno.1840:

HA — nice job ANet — every single “cheap” dye on the TP has shot up 10x in price.

I’m at a loss of words… “incompetent” is the first that pops to mind though.

That’s to be expected when transitioning from one system to a completely new one. What it really means is that there will be a LOT more Unidentified Dyes on patch day which will cause a big price fall on day one. I’m going to move as many dyes as I can today at peak price, then wait for patch day to buy back and hold because the price will eventually go up again.

juno.1840:

So unidentified dyes will no longer be drops — in short these will phase out? Can we only get them via laurels?

Also with the blog post, it seems there’s a self-described exploit where every Player can go and set themselves up with 100’s of unidentified dyes when the patch goes live. NOTE: I am not describing how the exploit would occur, but it seems pretty obvious from the blog.

You’ll be able to get the dyes for Bifrost from the Mystic Forge (happy gambling!) or from “rewards” (undefined at this time).

jazzllanna.1278:

Since unidentified dyes will still be available as rewards and to sell do we think they will change the gift of color recipe or will it become incredibly expensive?

I think the only reason they didn’t remove Unidentified Dye from the game is because they are leaving the recipe as is.

Hobbs.9260:

where is it that I can trade my laurels in for dye?

Go to a city.
Find the guy with the green laurels over his head on the map (the roman branch-looking thing).

The picture of the icon is here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Laurel

For purchased skins? Yes.

For Legendaries? No.

You are paying for a skin that has no stats from the store. They are making those duplicates obsolete.
With a legendary, you are getting the stats, the looks, and the ability to change the stats any time you want. You are losing nothing from having two of the same legendary because it will still function the exact same way as it did before. If you only got it for the looks, you’re going to be disappointed for sure since a much cheaper option is about to go live, but you should take some solace in the other benefits that having two legendaries bestows.

kamix.4713:

Erm – Since Im a newly level 80 I want to know how to make 40g with couple of Laurels

Please enlight me

Unidentified Dyes have spiked in price on the Trading Post due to speculation.
You can trade 5 laurels in for 10 Unidentified Dyes at the Laurel Merchant (found in each city). You can then sell those 10 Unidentified Dyes to other players on the Trading Post for a lot of coin (around 70 silver each, as of the time of this post, which translates into 1gold40silver per laurel).

Celtic Lady.3729:

I seriously doubt the new transmutation charges will be available anywhere other than the gem store. They’d lose money any other way of doing it.

You can get crystals from sources outside the gem store now, I don’t think they’ll need to change that at all.

Jareth.4813:

Considering that you only have a limited amount of laurels available I personally don’t see this as an exploit.

Probably biased, though, as I just made 200g from laurels I wasn’t using. :p

I’m sitting on what was over 400g worth of Laurels. Down to 276g worth now as the price of dye falls. Hopefully it will stay high in time for me to get home from work.

ANGELofPAIN.4809:

i have 250 unident dyes (all loot) at my bank … waiting for a precursor, so buying is not “my” problem …

but when the recipe is changed, i can do other things with the 250 unident dyes …
it would be nice to know that early

right, there will be many unident dyes at the days after the patch … but in the past most colors came in the game by loot, this source will no longer exist …
many players (and future players) will now try to unlock all colors at their account without spending money/gold at the gemstore or buy the expensive colors directly …

so it’s only a matter of time until the manufacture of Bifrost is more expensive than other legendarys

I’d say that dye will level out on par with Silver Doubloons.