Guild Wars 2

Custom arenas come to mind, those will be big sellers i imagine and the wife MUST HAVE the hippo… Just sayin’

Behellagh.1468:

If they hold no value why are there so many threads complaining that it’s not fair gating them? Obviously to the those who desire them they have value. They are willing to trade coin for it so that establishes value..

I see the numerous complaints as a problem, yes. The desire to not have them gated by the community doesn’t establish a clear monetary value either, just that they’d be willing to spend coin on them. There’s also people that suggest simply having dungeon tokens as a general currency and being able to just buy the skins as an alternative. I see their point and i also see that as what ArenaNets stance once was, back in the day.

Behellagh.1468:

Oh and earlier I wasn’t directing my comment specifically at you munk. You were just the most recent person echoing the sentiment that somehow assigning a set of items for doing a particular activity is wrong, that those items should be freely available for all if you have the coin.

I appreciate your clarification, i didn’t think you were targeting me. Unfortunately the act of earning coin isn’t seen as something earned by the same standards set through gated items. If i wanted to spend my way to a legendary, for example, it’s seen as a distasteful way to go. Eye of the beholder i guess. I personally don’t think those particular items should be sell-able, but yet we keep getting more gated items that aren’t tradable, it’s quite mind-boggling. Curiously, are legendaries more or less valuable (or prestigious even) than an Arah set, simple since you can’t buy the set outright? How about ascended stuff? Cat tonic?

Behellagh.1468:

Those big stuff animals you can win at a carnival can be purchased if you know a supplier but it’s value to the person who received it is knowing that someone spent a stupid amount of money to “win” it for them. The suggestion that everyone should act like Veruca Salt a demand to be able to buy whatever instead of earning it disturbs me.

That makes sense, but what disturbs me is the “seriousness” behind some peoples passion against being able to purchase stuff in a video game. I personally have no problem with rarity or expensive items (i.e. tier 3 cultural), but why view those as less earned? Like i said before there is a stigma (and in some cases a pure jealousy) toward people that can buy their way through life, regardless how they may have amassed that wealth. That’s a socioeconomic issue really and i actually find it fascinating that it translates to video game economics. What i said in my first response seems to hold true, the biggest tie to real world and video game economics is peoples reaction to market changes and what those changes will bare.

Ursan.7846:

munkiman.3068:

Then you misunderstood. Rewards gated behind certain activities that hold little to no economic value.

I don’t understand. Why not?

Going back to Behellagh’s Sandwich example. A customer loyalty program that rewards sandwiches HAS monetary value. So what if you can buy a sandwich with cash? It’s the opportunity cost of not having to spend that cash in the first place.

Same thing with Arah. Getting a full dungeon set removes the need to buy exotic to equip your character. That is value. Heck with dungeon sets you can actually convert them into ectos, which is value.

munkiman.3068:

Prestige value is also questionable, I’d certainly place far more prestigious value on a gold medal over Arah armor, but that’s nether here nor there.

Seriously? Of course an Olympic Gold Medal carries far more prestige than an Arah armor. The concept (Of rewards only attained through an unique activity) is what’s important, and why I used those two as an analogy.

EDIT: Also, I just want clarification on your core argument. My core point is directed towards your statement, that

There’s nothing in society that would even remotely “gate” a completely unique personal reward

Which is completely untrue. There are many rewards that are “gated” by unique activities in society today. I’m just curious as how the argument of whether these rewards have “value” or not have anything to do with this core argument.

Responding on an iPad so I’ll make a valiant attempt. What is the monetary value of an Arah set? What can I buy one for? You’re saying it’s prestige holds value, I’m saying it doesn’t in any way near the same way your examples do. In the sandwich example what is the value of a free sandwich? It’s easy to gauge, since I can simply buy the sandwich.

I was saying, the value of the awards/medals can actually be gauged monetarily.

Using a randomly generated value via salvage really doesn’t help much. And if you’re saying it’s a substitute for buying exotics (or crafting them) than you haven’t run Arah with a party of people with in no better than rare gear. Even so, value for equal exotic gear isn’t gated beyond just playing the game.

Ursan.7846:

munkiman.3068:

Again, not the same. An Olympic gold medal has value, a monetary value. An Arah set has only a look, nothing more. The earning potential alone in real world medals and awards are far more withstanding than “earning” an armor set in a video game. Simply comparing the two in economic terms makes a rather large distinction. This not to mention how disposable getting an Arah set actually is.

There’s a certain prestige associated with Arah sets. Because it’s only attained through a certain unique activity. It can’t be purchased with gold.

There’s a certain prestige with winning an Olympic Gold Medal. It’s only attained through a certain unique activity. The achievement of winning an Olympics can’t be purchased with gold.

I believe the original topic was “rewards which are gated behind certain unique activities do not exists in the real world.” Well, that exists in the real world too.

Then you misunderstood. Rewards gated behind certain activities that hold little to no economic value. Prestige value is also questionable, I’d certainly place far more prestigious value on a gold medal over Arah armor, but that’s nether here nor there.

Ursan.7846:

munkiman.3068:

I actually don’t find value in running a dungeon I don’t particularly enjoy for armor that i do like, i actually call that work and i already work enough. Why can’t i just play the game and buy what i like? I can in the real world, eh? I would hardly call getting dungeon tokens earnings or personal rewards of much economic value, you’re talking about something vastly different. That’s actually what the discussion is about, so i was trying to stay on point. I think you entirely missed the binding issue and why these items have very limited in-game monetary value.

Because we are dealing with prestige, and its monetary value. Some forms of prestige simply cannot be bought with money. (Full Arah set, Olympic Gold Medal). And some can.

Both the virtual world and the real world have many examples of this.

Again, not the same. An Olympic gold medal has value, a monetary value. An Arah set has only a look, nothing more. The earning potential alone in real world medals and awards are far more withstanding than “earning” an armor set in a video game. Simply comparing the two in economic terms makes a rather large distinction. This not to mention how disposable getting an Arah set actually is.

Ursan.7846:

munkiman.3068:

Absolutely untrue, with maybe a very few minor exceptions, everything has a price and at some point i could possible buy an Olympic gold metal or an Oscar with enough cash. There’s one glaring difference however “binding” an item. A bound item will never be sell-able for anything worth much (i.e. vender value). If we use that as a measure of worth than the economy in this game is absolutely horrible.

You’re fixiated on the physical value of the Medals. Sure, you can buy a Olympic Gold Medal with money. I’m sure it’ll have value to you, but it doesn’t make you an Olympic medalist. The physical value of the metal is completely independent of the value of WINNING which is an accomplishment that you cannot buy with money. Michael Phelps can sell his Gold Medal, but he doesn’t need that piece of metal to earn his rightful place in history as one of the greatest swimmers ever.

EDIT: Gold MedalS. Forgive me, Phelps.

I actually don’t find value in running a dungeon I don’t particularly enjoy for armor that i do like, i actually call that work and i already work enough. Why can’t i just play the game and buy what i like? I can in the real world, eh? I would hardly call getting dungeon tokens earnings or personal rewards of much economic value, you’re talking about something vastly different. That’s actually what the discussion is about, so i was trying to stay on point. I think you entirely missed the binding issue and why these items have very limited in-game monetary value.

Behellagh.1468:

munkiman.3068:

@Behellagh You’re missing one very important difference. None of those currencies have any value at all. In your sandwich example, the personal reward isn’t particularly special since i can buy that same sandwich for cash. There’s nothing in society that would even remotely “gate” a completely unique personal reward behind fake money. But, yet Anet does this with a very large amount of things in comparison. What’s the value of Ascended gear? Or dungeon gear? Or fused weapon claim tickets? The list goes on and on, yet somehow it makes sense to someone that these extremely gated items make people happy.

But all of these in game rewards that use different currencies and unique stores are there to encourage and reward participation in an aspect or special event. Where everyone starts with an even playing field. And that is what bugs the heck out of people. “But I have X amount of gold, why can’t I by that armor skin or mini-pet.” Well it’s only for those who are willing to participate moron! Sorry but it ticks me off that people can’t grasp that concept.

Yes we live in a world where everything is for sale, even if we don’t deserve it. Want a Super Bowl ring, an Oscar or even an Olympic Medal. No problem if you have enough cash and the means to find one for sale. “Why yes I walked on the Moon and here’s my rock to prove it.”

Sorry, in games, that type of prestige reward isn’t for sale. Man up and do the darn content if you want the prize. Don’t complain that the economy isn’t realistic because you can’t spend the fortune you made flipping on the TP to get an item that is only available to those who earned it.

Then you are of an entirely different mindset. I’m not whining or complaining btw. I worked very long and hard for my career, i will never compare that to my earnings or achievements in a video game, it’s a game, it’s meant to be played for enjoyment or even competition, if one so chooses. It’s not to be compared with real life accomplishments, in any way shape or form. It actually saddens me that people do look at it that way and I would venture to guess that’s where the phrase “get a life” comes from. My working life even relies on video games and i don’t take it nearly as serious as anything in my daily life.

So far the justification for gated content that has little to no in-game monetary value is personal reward (just like that of a gold medal)? Remember what the point of this thread is, economics.

Ursan.7846:

munkiman.3068:

@Behellagh You’re missing one very important difference. None of those currencies have any value at all. In your sandwich example, the personal reward isn’t particularly special since i can buy that same sandwich for cash. There’s nothing in society that would even remotely “gate” a completely unique personal reward behind fake money. But, yet Anet does this with a very large amount of things in comparison. What’s the value of Ascended gear? Or dungeon gear? Or fused weapon claim tickets? The list goes on and on, yet somehow it makes sense to someone that these extremely gated items make people happy.

In the real world, you have awards and medals that you cannot buy, but can only be earned through personal accomplishments.

Absolutely untrue, with maybe a very few minor exceptions, everything has a price and at some point i could possible buy an Olympic gold metal or an Oscar with enough cash. There’s one glaring difference however “binding” an item. A bound item will never be sell-able for anything worth much (i.e. vender value). If we use that as a measure of worth than the economy in this game is absolutely horrible.

@Behellagh You’re missing one very important difference. None of those currencies have any value at all. In your sandwich example, the personal reward isn’t particularly special since i can buy that same sandwich for cash. There’s nothing in society that would even remotely “gate” a completely unique personal reward behind fake money. But, yet Anet does this with a very large amount of things in comparison. What’s the value of Ascended gear? Or dungeon gear? Or fused weapon claim tickets? The list goes on and on, yet somehow it makes sense to someone that these extremely gated items make people happy.

All very good points about the value of Gold as a currency. It basically ties into the very limited lack of exchange between the numerous currencies along with the fairly limited earning potential.

Everything you mentioned really touches on why (with this game at least), it’s very difficult to make any real comparisons to RL economies. I really liked how you spoke about people getting paid in different currencies every week/month. That too is very frustrating and to me points to a very potent point, instead of a gear treadmill, we have a currency one.

Yeah right now anything below exotic is a bet, even so a pretty steep one.

Eley.1907:

So, such programs as Trading Post Notifier are not considered as bots?

I would assume no, since there is an approved (somewhat API for watching the TP). Maybe the crew at anet needs to discuss what they will allow, but at this moment they gave people access to TP data it’s up to them how they think it’s breaching contractual rules. I can easily build the notifier based on web data pulled from the TP.

I think we need to forget a bit about the average player for a second and talk about the economy as a whole. I would love the thread to focus on the real world versus THIS in game economy specifically. First and foremost, we can really debate all day about what it should look like, but the bottomline is that we really have no hard numbers.

If you want an intelligent conversation about real world versus in game economies, John, you might have to spew some facts. Granted i know we all perceive things differently, but that’s a huge problem when debating this type of thing. Great, gw2 TP is working as intended, but we have people that say it’s not working well, and a million concepts as to why.

There are a good amount of folks willing to talk the talk, now lets walk the walk. what is it you or anyone in particular are looking to learn about the gw2 eco? Some people say it’s fine while others are at the ideal that people are completely rapping it for every penny. Tell us what you see…

Ohoni.6057:

Look, I’m not an economist. I don’t know the best methods for achieving an optimal economy, I just know an optimal economy when I see one and the current one is far from it. Too many items are selling for far too much. A lesser problem is that too many other things sell for far too little because there is no vendor price for them. How they solve it, up to them. I offered my suggestion but if that it’s the best one, fine by me. What’s important is that they do solve it, and what’s most important is that they don’t consider what we’ve got “solved.”

In an attempt to get back on topic. You see this in all modern economies and it’s the same concept. Only the people that have the money to play in the top tier markets are playing around in them. It in some way benefits the average player if they happen to stumble on one of these top tier items. To give a light-hearted example, a friend of mine got a hold of a 1968 Shelby Mustang GT500 and promptly sold it for $100,000 USD. In correlation to that, several people i know in game got precursors and turned to sell them for a tidy sum.

I think John has mentioned (and i’m pretty sure he has far better numbers than what’s available to us) that the market isn’t being manipulated as much as some people tend to believe.

Tallis.5607:

And yet, here we are, with gems prices raising month after month after month after month. Odd, isn’t it?

Nope not at all. People are buying Gems with gold and spending them on the Gem store. There just aren’t as many willing to spend cash to change it into gold which replenishes the supply. It seems the people that do spend cash on gems are also, just spending it on items in the store.

Ahh i’d assume going the other way. I see though thanks.

Behellagh.1468:

There are two pools of gems. One in the exchange and one that represents all the gems sitting in player accounts and the 2nd pool has no affect in regards to the exchange rate.

JS did state that the exchange pool was created with so many initial gems that practical market manipulation by a player or group of players is impossible due to the massive difference between what a player would have Vs the pool in the exchange as well as the 38.4% markup over the Gem->Gold rate. So any arbitrage at the gem exchange is really just long term investing and not arbitrage at all (even though their may be cyclical trends in the exchange rate due to various times populations come on to play).

How did it get to 38.4? It’s 27.7…

Well i know this is getting off topic and i’m definitely not suggesting this, but it seems to me if you had enough money you could turn the gem exchange into an infinite gold making machine. I guess it’s possible with both scenarios, but it seems like it would take a lot more with a limited supply. But i guess you could do that with the TP as well.

While i understand the system, it seems to me, you could foresee a total pool of gems. If anet took the total amount of players they could technically handle and “gave” them (allocated) 50,000 gems i would think that total pool of gems would be more than enough to cover things (even if they expanded what they could handle). Giving players the ability to “crash” the exchange (regardless how minimal that risk is), seems really troubling. The government controls how much money is in the system, i was assuming this was the same deal with the gem system.

Pulling gems out of the exchange and not putting them back in (in the case of the inactive player with 5000 gems), means someone else has to put that back in at some point or the prices stay higher. Obviously 5000 gems isn’t much in the scope of it.

So, thinking out loud here. As players buy gems with gold and spend them on the gemstore, thus removing the supply from the exchange and raising the cost. You’re saying the only way to replenish that supply is by buying gems with cash and trading it for gold? What about people that bought gems with gold and no longer play, but have 5000 gems just sitting there? What’s in place to supplement the gem stock when people don’t make the conversions (gems->gold)?

I was under the impression that when you bought a store item it went back into the pool of available gems and that there was only ever a total finite amount of gems in the entire system.

Which brings me to the thought that the market will continue to climb if people don’t spend gems to get gold. That’s actually more troublesome than i originally thought. Where is the ceiling? 1g for 1gem? Starting to sound like the d3 economy.

Edit: To further iterate my concern, players basically have a license to print money… Seems pretty dangerous.

Khisanth.2948:

munkiman.3068:

I think the most pronounced aspect they share is people and their somewhat unpredictable reactions to changes in the market. One aspect about video games that is absent obviously is if you go broke, you won’t go hungry or lose your house and so on. There’s very real issues you face in the real world that you simply don’t have in the video game world.

That is only half true. :P
If I recall correctly in Aion the ‘rent’ for the biggest house is actually somewhere around 1million of their currency per week. They also have smaller house and apartments and I think one is free but you CAN lose your house in some games. Some games also require you to eat. Not sure if any MMO does.

The biggest difference is that in a game if you are broke it is perfectly fine to go and murders things for money. In real life this doesn’t work as well.

Well i really don’t think how earning your income is relevant to video game economics, however the comparison is amusing. I suppose you could hunt down woodland creatures and sell the fur and meat in the real world for cash though… But i digress.

As far as paying rent or starving to death, i wouldn’t play a game like that. I’m already “playing” life. The closest i might get to that would be minecraft.

Curiously, if gems are destroyed (which i still doubt happens), what happens when a person buys gems with gold and spends those gems in the store, removing the supply from the exchange?

There’s actually a few questions specific to debating over regulation.

This says to me that gems are finite within the exchange, meaning there is a limited supply. They may in fact be destroyed on store purchases, but it looks like the echange plays out differently.

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Draygo.9473:

I think the discussion on further regulating gem prices is a bit silly. I am in the camp that the current system is fine.

Anet has said the following:
1) gems transacted through the gold->gem exchange are not created
2) the only way gems are created is when real world money is spent to create them

Is that true? I’ve not seen it said that, that is how it works. I was under the impression there was a limited supply of gems in the coffers to begin with.

I think to really have an informed opinion on regulation, we’d have to have some better understanding how it’s set up. I think most people that express concern over it are people that are worried that the eventual price for gems purchased with gold will be so far out of reach, they have no choice but to spend real cash to buy anything out of the gem store. So knowing there is a cap that isn’t unrealistic (say 10g per 100 for example) or knowing there is some sort of mechanism in place to keep it from going crazy.

I think the most pronounced aspect they share is people and their somewhat unpredictable reactions to changes in the market. One aspect about video games that is absent obviously is if you go broke, you won’t go hungry or lose your house and so on. There’s very real issues you face in the real world that you simply don’t have in the video game world.

That and gambling is hardly legendary… I’m positive they won’t say that anything is coming down the pipe, for the very reason mentioned, it would destroy the precursor market.

So, he’s assuming the disparity between the 2 is somehow a gold sink? The only way i could see that is if people bought gems with gold then converted it back (for a loss unless they wait till it’s profitable). From what i understood about the gem store, people that put gold in for gems, comes out when people buy gems and turn it into gold. The disparity doesn’t destroy the gold like the fees in the TP, from what i understand of it anyway. I may be misunderstanding it though.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Don’t forget you get a star next to your life bar, it’s a pretty big deal and shouldn’t come easy.
That’s what makes it so special and that’s why I was so happy when I got it.

If anything I thing it should be even harder to get, add all the dungeons paths too as a requirement for completion and when ever a new Vista/PoI/WP is added to the game, remove the star until people get those, you’d keep the title but the star only if you have everything.

Now at first that seems a bit unfair, but think about it for a minute, like I say I have it already, but since then there has been new WPs and PoIs introduced that honestly I haven’t gotten yet.
What’s more if a new map is introduced (say something like Lost Shores where I haven’t set foot in yet) I still have that shiny star, I could stop playing for a year and it will still be there, so it’s not gonna be contemporary and IMO that’s no good and it takes away the whole idea of it really.

In GW (the first one) they split the titles up. I’d imagine if they added an expansion like that it would follow a similar pattern. It’s really not all that special IMO, making it harder wouldn’t add anything to it.

Gix.9742:

That’s like complaining that you have to wait a whole month to do a new monthly. If all it takes is time, what’s the problem? Are you suggesting that, if it was actually REALLY hard to achieve, it would be less of an issue? A lot of folks are in the mindset that it’s already impossible so….

I’m not suggesting anything of the sort, my suggestion was to have a training map where people could do all the stuff that doesn’t contribute to their server, like map completion, jumping puzzles, friendly duels, learning the maps and mechanics, etc. In some cases people wait months for a color rotation they need. Plenty of people go there and not help out just because those things are in place. I play WvW on occasion, and don’t have issue with it, but there are quite a few people that don’t want to actually be forced to battle over a POI or vista and think it’s a bad thing. A training type map would actually be good for everyone involved.

marnick.4305:

Aurisai.3416:

So in an attempt to bring this conversation back on track, the crux of my argument is that while the in-game ability to to earn gold in gw2 has remained flat, or slightly increased, the total gold supply in the game has drastically increased thanks mostly to gem->gold conversions. As a result, price is pressured upwards and scarce items become more difficult to attain by people not willing to make gem->gold conversions or spend their game time flipping items on the TP.

Gold isn’t put into the economy by gems> gold but rather sinked. Every gem/gold transaction destroys 30% of the gold involved!!! This a very important point you don’t seem to get. As long as you don’t acknowledge that, further discussion is moot.

You are so set on this Austrian idée-fixe of an increase money supply, that you’re clinging to the one thing that could potentially create loads of money, while disregarding all evidence to the contrary. To your defense though, videogames are probably the only economies where Austrian ideas hold merit.

What 30% are you on about? When you buy gems with cash there’s no 30% fee. If you’re talking about gold→gems there’s still no fee. There is just the disparity between the 2 to keep people from creating endless wealth in gold.

please feel free to attempt to invert the tp in your favor, is what i gather from that, G’luck

Syeria.4812:

@ Aurisai

If you’re genuinely attempting to push Austrian ideals as viable economic theory, I have to seriously question if your knowledge of the topic extends beyond “I read the wiki article once.” von Mises and his colleagues have certainly contributed to the collective economic landscape. However, their contributions would be best considered in the same manner as Rawlsian thought. Their contributions aren’t the same as those of a Keynes or Friedman. The closest the Austrian School comes to that type of contribution is from Hayek, and some would argue he wasn’t an Austrian Economist at all.

Im personally going to ask that you belabor an aus verse video game economy. It’s really not even close to the same thing. Yes Aus has opinions and yes US economy is actually in an odd state, but you cannot compare a virtual economy against a RWE. If so maybe there is a speculation thread you can join.

Ha, yeah you’re right, but why would anyone do that? I guess i was confused as to why someone wouldn’t actually look at the vendor value. As your picture clearly shows it take like a second to see. Sorry i was being to liberal with my wording.

They spoken on this before, much of this is to give the feeling of a living/changing world. I’m pretty happy with it. I’m enjoying the fact that adventure box will return down the road with new worlds and possibly some other twists. I’d take that over permanent content that i’ve done 100 times.

Geotherma.2395:

munkiman.3068:

Geotherma.2395:

munkiman.3068:

Biohazard.4196:

Geotherma.2395:

This part is VERY specific, and definitely not always true. Again, like I stated before and showed in the pic, people have to do research. Because it will not always be like this. So it isn’t really one sided, there are far more examples of both instances being true, so its best to always check if you want to be the most efficient and profitable.

Isn’t it extremely easy to check, though? Can you not just hover over the picture of the item in question to see its vendor value? It seems as if this “research” takes nearly zero effort or time.

Even easier, when you go to sell it, it’ll tell you it can’t be listed for under vendor value anyway. No research involved.

I wouldn’t say “no” research. As you can often see something that looks like you would make more on TP but lack taking into consideration the fees associated. So while “research” may have been the wrong word, perhaps saying “attention to detail” would also work.

The TP will not let you sell an item below projected profit which includes all transaction fees. Meaning you cannot post something at a loss, when it can be vendored for more.

Correct you cannot post for less than vendor. But you CAN post for a loss. If you sell for 1c above NPC you are losing money through fees.

Actually no, you’d be earning one copper. The projected profit INCLUDES ALL fees. The TP doesn’t allow you to list an item that vendors for less than the projected profit.

You’re making a pretty big set of assumptions there. First may be the scope of work. From what i understood of the things they talked about, they actually designed the game around being able to add and remove content fairly painlessly. Second is, and this one is pretty likely, are you certain that the work they did won’t be used in future temporary content. Perhaps a script that took a team to write over the course of the cycle can be easily modified to fit a different scenario? Seems to me the work they do is hardly as in vein as you make it sound.

Gix.9742:

It’s an achievement. Since when do people think they’re entitled to obtain these without sweat and blood? God forbid Arena.Net for trying to get you out of your comfort zone, too.

Don’t like it, don’t do it… and to call it a game breaker (as the OP said) is just sad.

It’s actually not, it’s mostly a waiting game for people not remotely interested in WvW. People will simply wait till their server has the map and run around getting what they need. Also the puzzles do nothing for the server, but they do take away slots until those people finish porting their guild to the chest. Hardly a challenge. It’s actually a larger issue.

Wolf.5816:

Forgive my ignorance. But is it possible to “Gift” people Gems, to buy and give friends gems as birthday presents/holiday presents.

Subsequently if not, are "Pet Cages/Boxes and Dye Kits capable of being mailed to friends?

If an item says account bound or soul bound you cannot send it off to anyone. The only way to gift gems is to buy a gem card and give them the code.

Geotherma.2395:

munkiman.3068:

Biohazard.4196:

Geotherma.2395:

This part is VERY specific, and definitely not always true. Again, like I stated before and showed in the pic, people have to do research. Because it will not always be like this. So it isn’t really one sided, there are far more examples of both instances being true, so its best to always check if you want to be the most efficient and profitable.

Isn’t it extremely easy to check, though? Can you not just hover over the picture of the item in question to see its vendor value? It seems as if this “research” takes nearly zero effort or time.

Even easier, when you go to sell it, it’ll tell you it can’t be listed for under vendor value anyway. No research involved.

I wouldn’t say “no” research. As you can often see something that looks like you would make more on TP but lack taking into consideration the fees associated. So while “research” may have been the wrong word, perhaps saying “attention to detail” would also work.

The TP will not let you sell an item below projected profit which includes all transaction fees. Meaning you cannot post something at a loss, when it can be vendored for more.

kaioshade.7682:

At first, i was angry that WvWvW was a requirement for 100% map completion. And honestly, i still do not fully agree with the decision. The one thing that softened the blow is as i have been doing WvWvW, i have been slowly been getting the vistas, and Points of interest. I log on once a day, see what my server has captured and see if there is anything that i can acquire. I have been treating it as a very high PvE area, with VERY aggressive and powerful enemies.

Keep at it, you CAN get 100% if you are patient enough.

I personally don’t have a problem with it either. But, right now there are guild groups that really go in doing nothing but training players on mechanics and teach the map. Sure they may take a camp or kill a dolyak, but over all they shy away from the battles, to teach things like siege or “how to take a keep/tower”. I see a training map as a win win for everyone.

Biohazard.4196:

Geotherma.2395:

This part is VERY specific, and definitely not always true. Again, like I stated before and showed in the pic, people have to do research. Because it will not always be like this. So it isn’t really one sided, there are far more examples of both instances being true, so its best to always check if you want to be the most efficient and profitable.

Isn’t it extremely easy to check, though? Can you not just hover over the picture of the item in question to see its vendor value? It seems as if this “research” takes nearly zero effort or time.

Even easier, when you go to sell it, it’ll tell you it can’t be listed for under vendor value anyway. No research involved.

Driver latency (communication in hardware) is different than network latency.

Snow White.9680:

munkiman.3068:

I still think adding a training map would really be nice for everyone involved. By training map i mean the ability to make yourself neutral or not. This way people can train, learn the maps, get map completion, do jumping puzzles, etc. without taking away from people that want to be part of the battle. It doesn’t seem like it be tough to implement, although i have no idea.

Yeah let’s remove all risk and challenge and then reward people with map completion.

…..WHAT?

If training maps were added, they definitely SHOULD NOT be rewarding people.

It would be no different than pve map completion. I’ve gone through the EB puzzle with full groups of enemies without issue (solo mind you). I’m not suggesting baddies not be able to attack you either (wolves and such) nor am i suggesting you get anything toward wvw titles. All these things go on now and take away valuable slots from people that actually want to participate in the battle.

I still think adding a training map would really be nice for everyone involved. By training map i mean the ability to make yourself neutral or not. This way people can train, learn the maps, get map completion, do jumping puzzles, etc. without taking away from people that want to be part of the battle. It doesn’t seem like it be tough to implement, although i have no idea.

Bundle example of market inflation…

Berserker’s Draconic Boots
Lowest Price to buy since release (TP): 1.27g
Cost now to buy (TP): 3.68g
Cost now to Craft (TP): 3.68g (in large part due to the cost of t6 mats)
Change in cost to craft since release (gathering materials): 0

I don’t believe the drop rate of items has changed (with the exception of ectos salvaged from rares).

Interesting theory, I did have a guildie with the same kind of “luck”. Actually getting whites from high end chests. I thought for awhile he was just pulling my chain, but then we did the Halloween mad king dungeon and he actually did get utter garbage from the chest, every single time.

I also notice far better drops overall on my guardian than my ele (neither running MF).

I suppose it is somehow possible, even though it seems unlikely. Maybe someone should look into the possibility?

Yeah, speak for yourself I care about clipping and i’m not OCD

Aurisai.3416:

So in an attempt to bring this conversation back on track, the crux of my argument is that while the in-game ability to to earn gold in gw2 has remained flat, or slightly increased, the total gold supply in the game has drastically increased thanks mostly to gem->gold conversions. As a result, price is pressured upwards and scarce items become more difficult to attain by people not willing to make gem->gold conversions or spend their game time flipping items on the TP.

There are quite a few other factors involved with what you’re saying. Although i agree the earning potential has remained somewhat flat, and there isn’t any hard numbers we can use to confirm that, it’s not a flood of gold on the market particularly that has contributed to price increases in certain aspects of the market. Some factors we may want to include:

1.) A reduced supply – bot banning, less people farming or changes in drop rate
2.) Increased demand – More people going for the big ticket luxury items and the materials required to create those items.
3.) Changes in player behavior – More people running the most profitable dungeon paths which contributes to only certain items loosing value as they flood into the market, while other areas see a reduction in supply, increasing the value.
4.) Changes in population – increases or decreases in population affect the supply chain. This especially so with new players coming in that don’t even have a scope on the big ticket items. You can see a pretty drastic reduction in t5 and below costs as those new players might be pumping up supply in those areas.

Aurisai.3416:

Now you can tell me all you like that there isn’t inflation (using your “textbook” definition) in gw2, but the proof is in the pudding. The goalposts for legendary item for example have shifted massively. 5 months ago the precursors sold for around ~300g or less. Last time I checked they were around 700g. I remember someone from Anet actually making a post about how they saw someone snatch up a completed legendary for a price (can’t remember exact amount but it was around 700-1000) and just turn around and sell it for double that price. I can’t see that anyone has earned that kind of gold just through dungeons etc. Another example is exotics, when I started playing a crafted lvl 80 exotic weapon was typically in the region of 1-1.5g. Now they sell for more than double that price.

You might want to check your facts on the crafted exotic bit. If you take something like a zerker’s greatsword, the prices have remained pretty stable since launch, while the cost of materials has increased.

Also, when speaking about inflation (as originally mentioned, that sparked this debate) you have to take a larger look at prices over a range of goods. The legendary/precusor market is clearly a supply/demand luxury market, which says very little of average earnings of players versus what things costs. More players want them yet the supply hasn’t changed, aside from a single event drop rate increase for precursors, in which we saw an almost immediate price drop across the board. Talking about inflation in that sense is moot, many of the t6 mats have increased since they are very tied to creating these luxury goods, while supply has actually decreased (for whatever reasons).