Guild Wars 2

FaboBabo.3581:

“press shield 4 twice and 5 stun some little chick and shatter it 3 times "

1.can’t you figure that during 3 shatters , you can still do most things you did with mirage on chrono while your foes are stuned .like torch 4 etc etc
only thing missing is that ambush + axe which is bad weapon in pvp .and as i proved . chrono has more condi pressure in much reliable way .

2. 400 range is bad for one click usage .

3. well just give you an idea how other class melee weapon works . if mirage axe aa has worse condi / direct dmg than others . it is weaker .thats the point .if thats not called weaker , what should be considered weaker ? like literally

4. 900 range aoe cc with radius of 240 ,its 1100+ range . have fun to catch someone with 400 range tele lol

5. your point was ambush is stronger , i proved thats wrong for most of them . then you dodged this and start talking they are bonus so whatever. now they are almost just like AA (if we count the damage while dodging , if not they are weaker than aa)

6. its not about just condition cleanse its about overall sustain .i dont mind it has worse sustain than chrono , but its damage is not that good to justify such horrible sustain .

7. well 25% movement buff and dodge roll are a lot . thats why anet even gave us that trait in chrono . traveler rune on mes was meta for a while in pvp .

8. currently there are only one or two skills which are supposed to detarget mirage : axe 3 and illusionary ambush , and it seems not to work in demo .

and i prefer they dont do those stupid detarget thing . it only makes mesmer more annoying which we dont need for many reasons .

like you said its more about your foes skill ,thats the exact point , the usefulness depends on others , and mes has little control .its just bad design and makes game harder to balance for what an annoying class that stomps newbies and is useless in high level play ?

when i said i can pick up real mesmer i meant i clicked on real one and attack that one . in 1s with 200 ping and my friend mirage used maxed stealth + teleport + staff .

why you think its hard ? a person with pink effect teleport around on your screen once or twice .you may want to check some fps gameplay video if you think thats hard to click .

its still not gonna fool any skilled players more than 1s .

Mikkel.8427:

I have viewed several of his ‘introduction’ videos. His focus in all of them has been on the positive aspects of each of the elites. He’ll skim over or briefly mention things he considers or has heard are flaws, but that’s just his style.

If you want to hear an anti-mirage rant, you can always watch Helseth’s review-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0kcm5l1kg

Thanks , i already watched that , actually if we ignore parts like he asked to fire someone in anet . his suggestion is quite good overall.

recently we overhyped that unidentified gear thing from PoF , and it turns out its not as good as people thought ,then people have to list correct information to convince others in the end its still better than our current system but the damage is done .

zealex.9410:

Idk to me it looks like you are just kittened because wp didnt cry about “mirage being trash” “mirage being boring” as you would like to hear.

nope there are some positive wvw mirage video as well and i enjoyed watching them even i disagree with some opinions .
there are difference between hype , introduction and misinformation .
i said this based on my experience . i have met many people in game who have compete wrong ideas about mirage , positive or negative .
like i said it may do more harm than good for game and community with so many misinformation flying around .

apharma.3741:

musu.9205:

i meant what makes a power shatter mirage work is power shatter itself with its burst damage ,blink and stealth .
if you want sustain, inspiration chrono are all better .

Yes sustain is better from inspiration chrono but that won’t make for a great power build because you lack damage. I’m not saying mirage is better for sustaining I’m saying it’s better for not getting completely destroyed by condi or getting instagibbed because of the traits.

If you want to play sustained mesmer it’s condi all the way atm as you get the sustained damage and sustained health regen and it’s debatable if mirage will be better than chrono in that regard.

i meant inspiration or chrono , sorry i didnt type it right .
mirage gives us sword ambush + elite tele which are nice but they are just not enough in my eyes .

and bigger problem with power mirage for me is that the playstyle is still
pretty much a power shatter which i played for like 3 years .

well tbh if anet makes sword ambush from clones trigger interrupt traits , then thats something . im big fan of CI build .

FaboBabo.3581:

K maybe 2 second 30 Confu was too harsh for a pvp situation, lets go the full burst combo;
: YES THAT MEANS ENEMY DOES NO DODGE WHAT HE WILL DO SO THIS IS THEORETICAL!

torch 4 into Jaust -> 4 Burn , 3 Confu
torch 5 into axe 2 -> 9 Burn , 3 Confu , 3 Torment
axe 2, dodge weapon swap, scepter ambush -> 2 clones -> rougly 7 stacks torment and 7 stacks confusion
-> Sharper Images trigger on clones, lets add 5 stacks bleeding assuming u got a 50% Crit Chance.
-> 9 Burn , 10 Confu , 10 Torment , 5 Bleeds

F2 Shatter with 2 clones and 1 Phantasm -> Blind = 2 Stacks Confusion + 8 From normal F2 + 4 stacks Torment.
9 Burn, 20 Confu, 10 Torment, 5 Bleeds.

kitten ur right. Its only 20 stacks. We still got both pistol skills , all Scepter Skills , 3 Shatters , every utility and 2 Jausts. (And of course i got both dodges too cause im using sigil of energy…)

Reduce it ALL by 50% and u still got an insane condi Burst.

2. Count recharge and recharge basically have the same meaning in which u can jump every 20 seconds. Explain the difference please. The only thing charge system has is that u can theoretically lower ur initial cooldown by stacking charges. If u used all 3 Charges its nothing more then ; 20 sec TP, 400 range.

3. I agree with pathing problems and overall slowness, thats a thing im aware of ( And will 90% fixxed in the next month so i won’t talk about this) Axe meele attack me be kitten for power , but having TWO conditions on the auto Hit is pretty good, dont u think ?

4. Now i get what u meant by Recharge system =/= recharge. U are seriously saying that Jaust has a 60 Sec cooldown. This is …. wow …. Are u goin to tell me u would wait for all 3 charges to use it once ? WTH?

5 I have no single idea about the dmg of the Ambushes vs normal Basic attacks. Its about the Condis. Mirrage is about Condis. Im never referring to ANY power based build. Doin 5 Stacks of confusion or Torment in 1,5 seconds (scepter) is better then doin 3 stacks of torment in the same time. (rougly cast time of Ambush + Auto attack speed of scepter in comparison)
So to answer ur question ; yes i heared of cast times etc, and i could prove mathimatically that ambushes are still better dmg-wise. Not to mention what happens if we get clones to do the ambush with us .

6 . Try illusion , dueling , mirage , u won’t miss Chaos that much is my opinion.

7. it was not me who fight myself, so to answer ur question ; no im not new to mesmer , maybe my enemies were, since it was beta weekende and much new ppl hang arround.

Dont want to say is extremely difficult to target , but with the right timing mesmer jumps can disrupt ur targeting . And dont get me wrong here . 1 Sec is all u need to tell which one is the right mesmer, but targeting is another thing.

1. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Energy_
also lol you know , even we ignore u burned a lot of cd , and took more than 2 to do that . how about take chrono , press shield 4 twice and 5 stun some little chick and shatter it 3 times . much easier ,reliable , and you can still have moa lol while u dont need rely on crit hit …. also that flying axe 2 animation , you will be interrupted the second you do that lol .

lets be honest that burst is not as good as you think .

2. 20s cd , a elite slot for a teleport with 400 range which is slightly away from melee range . and you pick this over moa ?

3. again , cast time and range , you might wanna try war axw or firebrand axe before you saying mirage axe aa is good .

4. i mean , moa is far better .even we ignore moa , gravity well is better too . with its 400 range, in most case you have at least to burn through 2 charges to escape from aoe .

5. by damage i meant all damage type .https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirage
check this yourself , be aware the cast time does not include things like after cast . only ambush that is clearly better than AA is Ether Barrage which can be easily dodged or spear one (but underwater combat lol), axe ambush seems better too but if you read the tooltip carefully , your dps will be ruined by adds in pve and worse for team fight in pvp .

6. lets ignore chrono , even you take inspiration line , you will have far better condi removal and sustain . mirage is struggling to compete with core mes trait line . also duel /illu / mirage you will be farmed by thief , condi bomb , meditrap DH and you cant kill druid or scrapper .

7. dont forget you lose 25% passive movement buff from chrono which is a lot in pvp and wvw .

8. just like original game , others will get used to mirage fairly fast after PoF. people said about opness of mesmer before gw2 release and how they cant figure who is real mes etc etc . we all know how that went out . as for people who cant do this , i dont think we should balance game around skill clickers .

Refia Montes.3205:

He explained in the video, it’s not a review. It’s more of an introduction about the Mirage. He knows that the Mirage has its problems and he’s not there to address it or call them out. He’s just there to introduce the Elite Spec and advertise it. And of course to advertise it he needs to show every trait and Utility and what’s good with all of them.

but still some info are just incorrect . like i said , many things he talked about simply do not work that way . like illusionary ambush . and people are going to buy PoF based on his introductions . some comments from youtube even believed that clone has more power dmg with mirage . wp used to overhype lots of things . sometime he did do more harm than good .

and we already have seen the 30 stacks of confusion op burst talk everywhere due to his stream . i think he could have done second video more carefully since he got time to test things ?

it never took me longer than 1s to pick up real mirage with my 200 ping during a fight .

5-10s lol dude , you are playing different game .

FaboBabo.3581:

1. No u dont need 3 clones. Ambush alone gives 5 stacks of Conditions, which is a good condi Burst. Every Clone after urself makes the ambushes insane.
1.1 ; Core mesmer simply does not own this. Core Mesmer won’t do ANY bonus dmg.
1.2 I dont need to burst ppl in the first second of the fight. I can simply fight my enemy and have an advantage everytime i dodge. I dont need to play with my ambush only, cause axe 3 is 5 stacks confu at least, joust has 3 confu at least, my auto doese 2 conditions now, axe 2 is spammable, torch has more burst options.

-> Ambushes are a bonus, which u can play with on higher mesmer lvl.

2. If ur referring to “Jaunt” i wonder why im still writing.. ; Here’s the wiki for “Jaunt” ;

“Shadowstep to a target location and confuse nearby foes.

Damage; Damage: 266 (1.0)?
Confusion; 3 Confusion (5s): 113 Damage On Skill Use, 330 Damage
Miscellaneous effect ; Conditions Removed: 1
Maximum Count: 3
Count Recharge: 20s
Radius: 180
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 400"

Shadowstep, 400 Range , Recharge 20 s ??

3.Necro gets an offhand weapon -> no mainhand weapon for necro , Necro can’t do autoattacks anymore….

Now without sarcasm ; We have scepter and Staff? (Mirage is condi if u dont got that allready)

4. Dodge roll is 300 units i think ?. So twice a dodge roll is 600 units. Tripple Joust is 1200 Units. Clearly the dodge roll has more movement then the new elite. Not to mention the superspeed core Mesmer gets when dodging.

5. Ambushes are better versions of normal Auto Attacks for scepter, Staff and Axe (didnt test others). I previously explained why ambushes are strong, simply because they are a bonus. And again 5 Stacks of conditions is never a joke.

Core mesmers dodge interrupts EVERY Cast.
Mirrage Mesmers dodge wont interrupt anything.

Core Mesmer can’t dodge while beeing stunned.
Mirrage Mesmers can dodge while beeing stunned (even without the trait)

Did i fall for a Troll or are Ppl reaally that ignorant?

Edit ; dont get me wrong dudes ; i know bout the issuses Mirage has. Ambush staff feels like enemy could drink a tea after dodging, infinite horizon should be baseline , more speed after dodge for making up the non movement effect… list goes on, but god kitten , some tweaks here and there and everything is fine. I could even life with the current state of mirrage, just cause i like the playstyle a lot.

It has no other playstyle then Base mesmer ur saying ? I never jump flipped arround as base mesmer that often as i did on mirrage. I’d wonder if anyone properly could get me as a target in the first 5 – 10 seconds of the fight ; if he wants to click on me , im allready gone again.

1. good condi or not , with one clone , you can not do 2s 30 stacks confusion burst . you bring this up yourself . i proved you are wrong . and if we talk about constantly condi pressure like 5 stack confusion from one ambush . chrono does that better . coz chrono has better illusion generation and shorter cds also shield gives 2 phants .
“2s 30 stacks of confusion ” does not work . you need burst or not , chrono does it bette in real pvp.
have fun to play axe in pvp with current numbers + cast time + skill3 path issue on a melee weapon lol

2. count recharge =/= recharge . like i said you do not understand what you are talking about .

3. axe as a melee weapon is bad for its damage in pvp , skill 3 is nice but it is slow and has path issue . while you dont have to use axe , but the point is mirage brings less useful , since of the good thing about elite spec is new weapon to play around

4. dodge does not have a 60s cd . you can also dodge jump for some position thats hard to reach .

5. i think you only checked damage number which is just slightly better than most weapons AA . do you know there are something called cast time , pre cast after cast ?
do you know you lose dps if you interrupt your aa chain , also do you know some ambush attack roots you while some are slow as hell ?and again ambush can not be just bonus. especially with mirror is worse lol . if ambush is some little bonus ,then mirage does not have elite mechanic lol . and many here disagree with you about power level of ambush attacks.

6. you can cast while dodging or stuned is nice , but our point is , this is too gimmick for us to replace any core mesmer traitline with mirage especially the new dodge removes movement too .

7 . “I’d wonder if anyone properly could get me as a target in the first 5 – 10 seconds of the fight ; if he wants to click on me , im allready gone again.”

my friend tried mirage with all stealth + teleports + staff , i targeted on real mesmer everytime while i aoe down all his clones . if you cant target real mesmer with all those new visual effect , you are new to mes? i guess.

im sorry , everyone who played mesmer for more than few days or even hours could pick up real one no matter how hard you try . also thats not a new playstyle for mes.

apharma.3741:

musu.9205:

apharma.3741:

Levetty.1279:

No, an elite specilization is supposed to introduce new ways to play a class along with new mechanics.

Mirage is a worse way to play the dueling theme that the core Mesmer was based around.

The traits for mirage are pretty strong for power builds, it gives protection after mirage cloak for reducing damage from a spike after a dodge, stunbreak and cleanse on dodge and – condition damage when you have regen. Jaunt becoming 600 range makes it a great escape and condition cleanse elite.

Basically it gives power builds a little cleansing and damage mitigation as well as enhanced escape with sword all in one line. The utilities are mostly bad but mirage advance with a reduced cast time would be pretty strong for power builds to burst in, return and kite for a bit without having to burn more utilitiy skills on getting out of melee.

i see your point , but at this point , its more like you forced mirage trait line into a power shatter build , its more about burst damage a core mes can do in wvw .

for Mirage Advance , it is not a stunbreak , also range is only 900 with 3/4 s cast time .it can only be used if you are in 900 range . blind is nice tho .

blink is way better .

even we ignore chrono line , any other trait line is better than mirage for a power build

Not really, the current issue with power mesmer in WvW isn’t the damage, we got tons of that if we take domination and duelling, the issue is surviving against the variety of builds you come across.

If you want plenty of condition cleanses you need to take inspiration and/or usually well of eternity and/or a cleanse utility if chrono but then you lack the defences of chaos line for protection, a bit of regen but mainly PU/BD. If you pick both chaos and inspiration you will lack damage.

This is why I say mirage isn’t bad because of the traits, it gives you that extra condition removal and stunbreaks from jaunt and elusive mind. You get that protection for after a dodge which is when good players would try to burst you and renewing oasis is decent at reducing condition damage. You also get enhanced escape via the sword ambush skill and jaunt.

The best way to do damage as a power mesmer is to blink in or use stealth to get close to the enemy to mirrorblade and mindwrack. The problem is you end up in melee range with the GS so it’s usually either a knock back and kite or switch to sword and use defences/stealth to put some distance between you. Mirage advance essentially allows you to get close and do this, same with Jaunt if it became a 600 range without burning too many cool downs to then get away again. You also preserve your blink which is invaluable for power mesmers.

i meant what makes a power shatter mirage work is power shatter itself with its burst damage ,blink and stealth .
if you want sustain, inspiration chrono are all better .

as title says .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByEA8NCm9ZQ

he spent half the time explaining how core mesmer works and still failed to understand core mesmer or mirage .

i had to explain every single time how wrong wp is when people said 2s burst for 30 stack confusion op! (sometimes its 40 stacks or 50 stacks lol)

he tends to be too positive for gw2 but this is just too much misleading when he said 3 stacks of torment that lasts 5s is lots of condition from axe 2 , or mirage has very interesting utilities … (which are 3 teleport , 1 dodge roll 1 over time heal , all of them are dull and useless ) and so on .

and he kept talking about how awesome mirage is for fancy phants .

funniest part is when he talked about illusionary ambush .

he can be positive but he could update the correct information . not hide all those downsides (which are not number problems ) behind visual effects.

apharma.3741:

Levetty.1279:

No, an elite specilization is supposed to introduce new ways to play a class along with new mechanics.

Mirage is a worse way to play the dueling theme that the core Mesmer was based around.

The traits for mirage are pretty strong for power builds, it gives protection after mirage cloak for reducing damage from a spike after a dodge, stunbreak and cleanse on dodge and – condition damage when you have regen. Jaunt becoming 600 range makes it a great escape and condition cleanse elite.

Basically it gives power builds a little cleansing and damage mitigation as well as enhanced escape with sword all in one line. The utilities are mostly bad but mirage advance with a reduced cast time would be pretty strong for power builds to burst in, return and kite for a bit without having to burn more utilitiy skills on getting out of melee.

i see your point , but at this point , its more like you forced mirage trait line into a power shatter build , its more about burst damage a core mes can do in wvw .

for Mirage Advance , it is not a stunbreak , also range is only 900 with 3/4 s cast time .it can only be used if you are in 900 range . blind is nice tho .

blink is way better .

even we ignore chrono line , any other trait line is better than mirage for a power build

op is one of those people who only watched woodenpotato video and came here to enlighten us how over tuned mirage is .

1. for that burst , you need 3 scepter clones , IH gm trait , likely illusion trait line. and after that u need to burn your defensive tool : dodge . have fun doing so called 2 s burst in pvp .

2. that is not a 20s cd 400 range tele . also mirage has no dodge movement. and this elite skill is not good enough for that loss

3.mirage gains an axe , which is not a ranged weapon . so no ranged dps from mirage .

4. mobility ,even you take axe + elite , you still dont have enough mobility comparing to simple dodge roll . not to mention dodge jump .

5. the ambush is weak , even you take IH ,its still not that good unless you have 3 clones . so mirage does not really have good condition damage in pvp ,

6. for pve , given the fact mirage has trouble to generate clones , someone already tested : you do slight more dmg with mirage trait line , but you still use 3 iduelist ,
the only real gain is Dune Cloak and maybe axe , everything else is trash for pve dps . and it seems if there are adds around axe dps will be far less than its one test golem.
and lets be honest sitting with 3 duelists for max dps is not new playtyle or fun one .

so yep , it is worse than core mesmer.

Artyport.2084:

musu.9205:

GalloY.9640:

Levetty.1279:

Artyport.2084:

Like its a mesmer its not suppose to be a direct damage class.

That is a pretty bold claim. Have you got a source for that?

I kind of agree with that idea, although I’m open to having a damage spec.

I’m a GW1 Mesmer main and the builds I played were very much support based through Interrupts/energy denial and that’s how I view the Mesmer. They deal damage but that’s a secondary effect – the crowd control and utility are the primary.

the support u talked about in gw1 is just interrupt and some soft cc . due to mobs design , they dont have skill bars like players . the kind of support gw1 mes had (effective or not ) can not work with gw2 content .sorry ,but we are not playing card deck here .

secondly , only illusion skills of gw1 mes could be considered as conditions like gw2 ones . dom line is direct damage while its situational damage but it is not damage over time like conditions in gw2. inspiration skills are mostly for energy management, some hex removal too . and fast casting is pretty much quickness + alacrity in gw2

currently all useful support gw2 could offer have nothing like gw1 mes support which i explained why it is so .

why should any gw2 mes main want an elite spec with gw1 mes “support”that never work.

what we need is unique mechanics that doesnt give flat number, but tricky playstyle with proper dps or support that works in gw2 content .it should not be limited into some manipulating theme or mental influence theme which anet tried to make and we all know how awful that design went .

Please no more manipulating kitten , gw2 AI won’t never ever be able to fool any experienced player in any possible way .

Nah.. They could do it. I recently noticed that Livia in the last episode of the living story had a hex.
Fragility each time a foe is struck with a condition they receive damage.

They originaly took hexes out of the game because they wanted to simplify gameplay.(in my opinion a bad idea)
But they could certainly bring them back now as they have added lots of complexity with traits.

Utility Skills: Hexes
Hexes are skill placed on targets that can be negated by either dodge roll or block.
Giving two simple counters to them in pvp while adding the complexity for the Mesmer to make sure certain conditions are in place for their skills to take place.
Forcing a dodge roll/stunning an enemy/etc

Backfire- place a hex on the ground enemies who are effected next attack is interrupted and does damage in an area around them. can be negated if enemy use a dodge roll
Vulnerability- place a hex on your target. Your illusions do increased damage to the target and apply vulnerability with each strike. can be negated by block.
Energy drain- place a hex on that deals 3 strikes over a period of time. each one granting you barrier. can be evaded by block
Empathy-Target next 3 attacks cause blindness and deal heavy damage. can be negated by dodge roll.
Elite-Clumsiness place a hex on the ground enemies in area are knocked down on their next attack and become confused.
can not be negated.

Mesmer was all about complexity and making some really tough decisions to have big effects on the battle field. I want dat!

You know , most of those ideas are what i called situational damage .

and also many of those skills you created they simply wont get use in high paced gw2 combat ,some wont even be useful in gw1 , mobs will avoid ground target aoe in gw1 . also some are over complicated for little gameplay value .

look at this :
Vulnerability- place a hex on your target. Your illusions do increased damage to the target and apply vulnerability with each strike. can be negated by block.

a skill with complicated function and not much different than just a dps buff , also its hard to control since mes cant really control when illusions attack which make this skill useless ,by all means its even worse than ambush .

Elite-Clumsiness place a hex on the ground enemies in area are knocked down on their next attack and become confused.

how this is much different than chrono elite gravity well except its worse?

or :
Backfire- place a hex on the ground enemies who are effected next attack is interrupted and does damage in an area around them.

useless in pve for reasons i said earlier .gimmick in pvp , its basically a mistrust + cc skill also adds more"clumsiness" to UI, but takes far less skill to use . unless everyone has hex removal then whats the point of this ?

i will say it again , we are not here to play a card deck game . gw1 was nice and fun .
but lets move on . go for ideas that make sense in gw2 .

the more anet try to add “complicated trick” to mesmer , the more this class suffers .

GalloY.9640:

Levetty.1279:

Artyport.2084:

Like its a mesmer its not suppose to be a direct damage class.

That is a pretty bold claim. Have you got a source for that?

I kind of agree with that idea, although I’m open to having a damage spec.

I’m a GW1 Mesmer main and the builds I played were very much support based through Interrupts/energy denial and that’s how I view the Mesmer. They deal damage but that’s a secondary effect – the crowd control and utility are the primary.

the support u talked about in gw1 is just interrupt and some soft cc . due to mobs design , they dont have skill bars like players . the kind of support gw1 mes had (effective or not ) can not work with gw2 content .sorry ,but we are not playing card deck here .

secondly , only illusion skills of gw1 mes could be considered as conditions like gw2 ones . dom line is direct damage while its situational damage but it is not damage over time like conditions in gw2. inspiration skills are mostly for energy management, some hex removal too . and fast casting is pretty much quickness + alacrity in gw2

currently all useful support gw2 could offer have nothing like gw1 mes support which i explained why it is so .

why should any gw2 mes main want an elite spec with gw1 mes “support”that never work.

what we need is unique mechanics that doesnt give flat number, but tricky playstyle with proper dps or support that works in gw2 content .it should not be limited into some manipulating theme or mental influence theme which anet tried to make and we all know how awful that design went .

Please no more manipulating kitten , gw2 AI won’t never ever be able to fool any experienced player in any possible way .

Allarius.5670:

musu.9205:

mistrust was far better than this with daze mantra . and guess why it was just a niche build .

also , sword is better for your build but sword ambush is still way too slow for what it does and what it costs.

and still :

clone generation is not enough for this to work .

on top of those problems , where is your defense? you don’t even have enough condi removal .no dmg on shatter.

now lets look what u can get from other trait line :
illusion : much more constantly dmg
domination :CS , PB for build with some power stats .not much for condi build tho
inspiration ?condi removal , regen , idefender
chrono : no need to explain for this one

mirage is worse than almost every trait line for one meh blink that takes a elite slot .
or a GM trait that lets you burn your dodge for pitty dmg unless you slowly summon 3 clones during a fight .

i meant the whole build work around Ineptitude. what you even need mirage for ?

Vulnerability to high condition application and condition bombing would be huge! Playstyle would require something similar to power shatter mesmer and thief, avoidance and get-in get-out. This wouldn’t be a dueling, sustain, or hold the point kind of build.

Defense (in addition to major kiting requirements) would probably have to come from its high blind access, repositioning, cc (daze, stun), and evasion (Mirage Cloak, allowing you to continue attacking).

Mirage would be taken to allow for additional condition access, low cooldown stunbreak with minor condition cleanse, access to axe, and cover casting with Mirage Cloak.

Riddle of Sand and Ineptitude would make for easy confusion application on par with Illusions traits without needing any illusions. Axe would grant low cooldown condition application. Torment would come from axe, and you would gain bleed spike potential from Dueling.

Over the weekend I played something different than this, so I cannot verify the idea. This is articulation of what I think the op may be considering and why. I’m just guessing here.

except one thing , where is your burst dmg from ? like what u are going to use for burst ?

and where is your low cd stunbreak ?even you take Elusive Mind , it will just waste your dmg which is not that good to begin with .

if you take Infinite Horizon , only stunbreak you have is blink which u dont need mirage .

access to axe but for what ? its dmg is not that good for a melee weapon, only skill 3 is worth somethinng but its way too slow .
scepter or sword is far better

and mirage cloak wont cover u for 2.25s cast time . lol

mirror needs to be tied to every mes weapon . maybe clone skill or maybe phant
we should gain more mirror around battle field . and buff its effect a little bit .

Allarius.5670:

Oh, this looks fun: whack-a-mole guess the build. Actually, this thread is kind of productive in a round about way: there has been some interesting theory crafting and associated drawbacks brought up and discussed that I haven’t exactly seen elsewhere.

Here is my guess:

Guess

hide spoiler

“Pulmonary Impact Mirage”
(Daredevil through the eyes of Mesmer)

Dueling: Duelist’s Discipline (with pistol, otherwise Desperate Decoy), Blinding Dissipation, Ineptitude
Chaos: Descent into Madness, Chaotic Dampening, Chaotic Interruption
Mirage: Riddle of Sand, Mirrored Axes, Elusive Mind or maybe Infinite Horizon

Axe with Pistol (?) and Staff
Heal (?), Mantra of Distraction, Portal (?), Blink (?), Jaunt

Sigils: Energy and Cleansing on both
Runes: Lyssa, Nightmare, or Adventure

Amulet: Condi duration is good here (condition spread and not running Illusions for improved Confusion duration) and Precision (bleed procs for Sharper Images). Lower power scaling on axe, so maybe Wanderer or Deadeye, Viper seems too fragile to actually run anywhere (learn to play on my part?).

From what I can tell, it would have problems if it gets condition bombed and it has no real sustain, would need to remain elusive and avoid prolonged focus. It does have burst, control, mobility and evasion to help with survival and roaming. Would also struggle with high, multi-stack stability uptime without boonrip.

Chaos storm access approx every 15 sec, possible interrupt procs with cover conditions and pairs well with Lingering Thoughts whirl finisher. Interrupts enable one another (Mantra refreshes Diversion, interrupts refresh Pistol). Multiple ways to pressure and condition bomb with low relative cooldown and high repetition. Reasonable torment access, high bleed and high confusion, lots of cover potential.

No moles were harmed in this guess work.

mistrust was far better than this with daze mantra . and guess why it was just a niche build .

also , sword is better for your build but sword ambush is still way too slow for what it does and what it costs.

and still :

clone generation is not enough for this to work .

on top of those problems , where is your defense? you don’t even have enough condi removal .no dmg on shatter.

now lets look what u can get from other trait line :
illusion : much more constantly dmg
domination :CS , PB for build with some power stats .not much for condi build tho
inspiration ?condi removal , regen , idefender
chrono : no need to explain for this one

mirage is worse than almost every trait line for one meh blink that takes a elite slot .
or a GM trait that lets you burn your dodge for pitty dmg unless you slowly summon 3 clones during a fight .

i meant the whole build work around Ineptitude. what you even need mirage for ?

Skuzz.6580:

Ooh wait, you are all still stuck in PvP land.. talking about looking at things from a wider perspective.

If you think Mirage does not include unique things then perhaps thats where things have gone bad for you guys, i’m not judging, i’m just saying.

Also about the clones thing.. Mirage can have 3 clones up after a shatter within 1-2 seconds.

show us the build , rotation , so we can compare this with core condi mes
like its anything hard lol
we tested , even it increases dps for condi mes . its likely not much to make condi mirage desirable in raid not to mention all problem of core mes remains —-as only dps that has nearly no aoe dmg .

what is worse is , it does not offer any new way to play . that‘s why so many mes mains are saying its not about numbers its about its flawed design.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Fay.2357:

Right, so the problem I’m seeing here is the really limited illusion generation vs a competent opponent and the awkward and broken mechanics of the axe skills. Axe 2 is pretty clunky and requires very close range, but axe doesn’t have a good gap closer because axe 3 is just non-functional any time you’re fighting on terrain that isn’t flat. If the stars line up and you’re fighting a low mobility target on a relatively flat area, it’ll work well. Otherwise…not so much.

It could be that I was just fighting in optimal conditions all the time. I can’t really objectively analyze my gameplay on the fly but my experience was that I did not have issues with generation.
Maybe my opponents were just bad for a couple of hours and that’s where my perception is flawed but I didn’t have a lot of problems against daredevils, dragonhunters, deadeyes, weavers, other mesmers, or reapers. The only professions that really made me struggle were Spellbreakers and Scurges.

I would go further from what it felt like my main damage sources besides torch4+5 were axe2+3.

I’m not saying that I am right since I did not record any of my gameplay there’s no proof for that it’s just what I felt was happening.

given the details you talked about earlier in this post , you wont have that many conditions while against class like DD and reaper and chrono mes .
playstyle seems to be torch 4 stealth then axe 3 .and we all know how to dodge that .
its far easier than dodging thief stealth or s/d sword 2 when it was meta .
we learned all those from thief already , now mirage does it even slower with less burst damage .

GalloY.9640:

Hopefully it’ll be a Mesmer through the lense of a Mesmer, as in a GW1 Mesmer. Not the pink minion bomber we currently have.

I’m a Mesmer main and I enjoy it but I’ve said all along – it’s clunky as hell. The class needs a complete overhaul imo, there is so much counterintuitive play built in from the get go. Shattering needs to go.

you already have that , its called spellbreaker .

or you know some would view this as a bait for your stream .

Frostball.9108:

Dondagora.9645:

Frostball.9108:

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Also id like to mention that my current build is only the strongest build i have yet to see myself. Im not saying it is the strongest build possible or it is what everyone will play in the future. While my build might be strong, we have only had a few days to look at these things and its most likely that its possible to even make a much better mirage build.

My main point is that in the games current state it will be a better option than chronomancer.

It’s not like gw2 is a complex game with complex mechanical interactions. There’s not that many ways to build a character, especially with the obvious restrictions of being a condie build that bursts without relying on clones. You can burst with shatters, you can burst with weapon skills, you can burst with ambush skills. That’s literally it. All of those methods have downsides, and chrono is far better at shatter bursting.

I think you’re just afraid to post the build because then people would see how not impressive the burst actually is. There’s no shame in being wrong you know, it’s ok.

Thats why im surprised people have so much trouble finding mirage any good. Whats the difference between streaming the build and posting the build?

Simple. By withholding the build here and now, for whatever stupid reason you can muster, you’re preventing us from talking intelligently with you about why you think the way you do. You’re essentially the same as a person who goes “this thing is 100% true. I have evidence, but, y’know, I won’t show it to you. Just take my word, it’s very compelling.” So don’t blame us for not trusting you, but we don’t trust you. Give us the build or stop talking about it. Those are your rational options.

Its alright not to trust me but its stupid not to try to see the potential in something and give it more than one go before you say its bad. Ill be streaming the build after pof release.

when PoF releases , the mirage would surely be different .
you could give us your build . or even just the burst combo you used .rest of us will figure it out in no time anyway .

there wont be a secret build that only you can performance well .

Frostball.9108:

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Also id like to mention that my current build is only the strongest build i have yet to see myself. Im not saying it is the strongest build possible or it is what everyone will play in the future. While my build might be strong, we have only had a few days to look at these things and its most likely that its possible to even make a much better mirage build.

My main point is that in the games current state it will be a better option than chronomancer.

It’s not like gw2 is a complex game with complex mechanical interactions. There’s not that many ways to build a character, especially with the obvious restrictions of being a condie build that bursts without relying on clones. You can burst with shatters, you can burst with weapon skills, you can burst with ambush skills. That’s literally it. All of those methods have downsides, and chrono is far better at shatter bursting.

I think you’re just afraid to post the build because then people would see how not impressive the burst actually is. There’s no shame in being wrong you know, it’s ok.

Thats why im surprised people have so much trouble finding mirage any good. Whats the difference between streaming the build and posting the build?

i think we all here just want to know your build now tbh .
mind to give us a link ?

Frostball.9108:

Refia Montes.3205:

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

for condi burst we could agree , but clone still dies easily for that happens , and defense from mirage is worse than chrono .

maybe you could link us your build ?

Levetty.1279:

I don’t understand why people have already bought PoF. Even if Mirage didn’t look terrible from the reveal, it did, you shouldn’t really throw your money away at products you don’t know much about. Should have waited for the demo weekends.

TBH mounts and new maps are far better than hot , mob design is big off but bounty bosses are interesting.

many people do not care about raid or high level pvp anyway .

It’s ok they are preordering for things they enjoy . It does suck for mes main . all in all mmo generally value more contents than balance .

Carighan.6758:

Azukas.1426:

This very same thing happened with HoT betas.

Once again patience is the correct action at this time.

Yeah but my patience is limited and Final Fantasy 14 is downloading sooo slowly. :<

Azukas seems forgot what actually happened .

HoT beta : everyone told anet scrapper drone does not work , they still dont work today .
everyone told anet tempest is a lazy failed design , its still what it was in its core a failed support elite spec , anet just buffed numbers so people run tempest now .
everyone told anet trap doesnt work , anet buffed numbers to disgusting level , and traps still dont work today in pvp .

and we have reaper . those are half of hot elite , and he is telling us how see how it went last time lol

and lets see the good elite from hot :

DD : anent reworked many things , changed times and times until DD became what it is . their dodge got like 3 times major reworks .

chrono : well trait got buffed , gravity changed to an actual useful elite in all game mode .shield was one time block back then .and overall its design is very clear with many good traits that fix core problem of mes .

Druid : its good enough without Gotl . but pve people asked a dmg buff that just ruined everyone healing build .also Druid is brokenly op from start . It got so many nerf and still remain meta for past 2 years that does tell you something .

zerker : simple concept with a few op abilities from start .not much can go wrong with it .anet only fixed some numbers for its pve dps .

so only spec anet managed to fix is DD ,which took them more than one month more than one patch and their dps was low enough that no raid wants them for like 3 months or longer .

if buying heavily flawed production is what you call patience , then yeah we have to be patient.

martin.1653:

you can move with superspeed when using mirage cloak. I’m no expert but I’d say it’s about the same distance travelled as roll. Also, there’s that small tiny itsy bitsy thing that you can cast when using this evade and choose to stand still. But sure, it’s not better than roll. Just… different. Yup.

log in , test it yourself
you are not an expert
but you dont have to be this lazy with empty words like "id say xx is same distance " in your own head .

truth is it is not same . and you can only move forward for benefit from superspeed .

Thenme.6491:

I don’t think anyone who hate on the spec understand the Mesmer. Mesmer was never supposed to be a PvE class, ever since guild wars 1 got out Mesmer job was to kitten with the other teams mind. mirage seems to do it wonderfully. Mesmers are illusionist who use mind tricks. you want to play heavy damage dealers, go to elementalists. the whole phantasm and shatter mechanic were more feat to necro to say the least. I mean it’s legit minion bomber. but hey Mesmer in guild wars 2 was the Mesmer of guild wars 2 since the beginning so I get why some people would feel cheated. I really like this though.

can you people stop saying all those nice words , try to actually play it .
"guild wars 1 got out Mesmer job was to kitten with the other teams mind. " did you ever play gw1 mes ?
dude all you said is just some nice concept .

in actual game gw1 mes is for interrupt and in later game it became top dps . kitten with other mind is a theme for gw1 mes . there is no gameplay with that .

you are the one who doesnt understand mes in all game mode .

and people in this whole front page of mes forum listed many many problem with mirage , they are not just complaining numbers .

what we are saying is mirage is good at nothing .
i can target any mirage real mes any sec no matter how many stealth skills or tele skills he uses .
if you think that trick your foes thing ever works , you certainly didnt play mes .

Alpha.1308:

how do alpha and pre-beta testers not report these as faulty designs to get them revisited?
even if this is beta, they’re still getting a lot of feedback on why this is so flawed with detailed information

Thief really early on in development went through an overhaul, because they received feedback early on

like, how did nobody “early on” testing the mirage ever take a look at those mirrors, realize how bad they are, and report it so they understand what’s wrong with them

these are mechanically terrible, there is no reason to have a reactionary mechanic such as i-frames to be based on having to walk over to an item on the ground, it turns it into an offense bonus from Ambush skills only, which will already lower the total time attacking because they have to run over to the mirror in the first place with the new melee weapon we got

it’s… just trash
mirrors are either a defense, or an offense, but it fails to be either

even if it takes them a while after release, it should definitely be addressed

developers ask for feedback, they get their feedback
the least they can do is attempt to listen

watch wp stream :“ mirage is overtuned ” for 3 clones dps with 3 traits line on golem
thats your typical tester

Daharahj.1325:

You’re not supposed to use False Oasis the same way you use Ether Feast, it’s an overtime heal with a combat buff; you use it at the beginning of the fight, essentially shoving off 5~ seconds off its cooldown.

I feel like they could make it more useful if they either removed the mirror spawn outright and buffed it elsewhere, or fixed mirrors to be more consistent (like making mirrors grant a longer cloak).

are u serious ?

use your healing skill before fight lol on a elite spec without sustain dmg and sustain heal or defense .
by your logic they could reduce a lot of heal to half coz they can cast before fight .

so you have to purposely lose 8k hp just to make heal skill use before right then for 25s u cant heal from beginning of fight ?

i thought people defend deadeye 107k dmg from one skill is ridiculous enough,guess im wrong

Azukas.1426:

nothelseth.4621:

‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’

this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?
I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.

That’s not a random core thief.

Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.

Anyhow that’s besides the point.

Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:

Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.

Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.

Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci

Ok let’s say in a few months once we get a full handle on the entire elite & get a balance patch or two we should see Mirage’s full capabilities. I fully expect it to supplant Chrono in time.

Now this is assuming Anet will nerf HoT elites soon to make way for the PoF ones or considerably buff the PoF ones.

Personally I like that we might have each elite viable in it’s own way.

famous Azukas has spoken .

by his logic : coz mirage sucks now it will be better than chrono in few months maybe few balance patch which will be half a year or longer .

due to this unseen future , Azukas like we have mirage viable in its own way .
he is too true to himself .

but lets ignore all the issues mirage has .
what exactly is its own way ?
camping clones ? i thought you were against PU passive condi cancer?
but now you like mirage for its own way : camping clones.
or its own way is camping clones but without enough defense and offense so you can call it op to show how ridiculous you are?

Cyninja.2954:

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate; basically you take advantage of your superior evasion frames.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

Yes and once people figure this out they will literally wait for our burst andthen block, evade, cleanse or invul it following up with wiping the floor with us.

Burst was never a problem for mesmer. It was always only a IWIN button against low skill opponents. Higher tier it has always been the survival and longterm game, see chrono.

Add on top of that the very clunky mechanics, the underwhelming utilities on top of our already punishing base mechanic and you get why people are not hyped.

Also most people keep comparing mesmer/chrono/mirage with what they know. Some of the other classes new elite specs are specifically designed for pvp/wvw (warrior, thief, ranger) or to compensate for lack of pve utility (guardian, revenant, necromancer). I doubt mesmer will remain in a good spot against some of those classes after PoF.

with so many more aoe + aoe cc + anti condi + unblockable skills from other new elites
i even worried about chrono .

fixed . i feel so drunk…

Mastamaker.2957:

The limitations of iDuelist are somewhat mitigated if you use Axe 3 and the new deception utility that retargets all illusions. As long as there aren’t a million mobs it should be relatively easy to keep phantasms up and switch targets.

for what exactly ?still no aoe still not good enough dps .
lave font adds while we target one by one while wasting so many skills + trait line for such basic thing ?

msalakka.4653:

Simonoly.4352:

Yeah this is so much weaker than I was expecting. There’s going to be some massive buffs in certain areas.

This isn’t a class that historically gets “massive buffs”.

posting here is useless
we need a main post on reddit . coz right in main thread about elites spec , many said they like mirage they are not mes main and they only like mirage visual effect . once pof is on they will flee to op ele or holo or deadeye .

we have a chance to get the buff and reword
but not from forum

just heard this in pvp map chat

if anet cant fix mirage, at least let mes gain 10 gem whenever a mirage touch his/her mirror in combat

Daharahj.1325:

musu.9205:

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

150 condi dmg for burst is nothing scary plz other class get this many stats gain for passive or even more .

You don’t get vigor for the damage.

musu.9205:

and you have only 3 condi lol

Burn guardian only has one and it’s a viable spec. As long as you can keep up the pressure it doesn’t matter how many conditions you have.

musu.9205:

not to mention you have to build clone much slower than core mes or chrono
trait gives your shatter mirror is on shatter skill usage not per illusion for 33% chance

True, chrono shatter is superior to mirage’s.

musu.9205:

you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

and what you mean by this ?
my friend played mirage against me . i target him every single time he appear from stealth with axe 3 lol
and i just spawn aoe to clean out clone lol

I shatter my clones before they die to cleave, and the build I use doesn’t have stealth, so I can’t speak for your friend.

whatever you get vigor for , 150 condi dmg is nothing especial with our low base dmg condition .

burn guard works coz its far far far better burst condi and they have skill to instantlt stack multi stacks . none of those are true to mes.
you cant keep pressure on mirage thats the whole point we are saying

you do know you shatter clone does not do dmg instantly right , they walk to aoe and they die . you can try all u want but mirage is trash tier .. almost unfixable without a total rework.

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

150 condi dmg for burst is nothing scary plz other class get this many stats gain for passive or even more .
and you have only 3 condi lol
not to mention you have to build clone much slower than core mes or chrono
trait gives your shatter mirror is on shatter skill usage not per illusion for 33% chance

you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

and what you mean by this ?
my friend played mirage against me . i target him every single time he appear from stealth with axe 3 lol
and i just spawn aoe to clean out clone lol

Azukas.1426:

How’s condi mirage?

I felt power was going to be weak

Stuck at work can’t test

short answer : weak

its weaker than i have thought , and i was already very negative towards mirage .

some suggestion i made to improve mirage from the abyss :

class mechanic :
1. buff all ambush skill , double their dmg . when you hit foe with your own ambush still , it restore some endurance. buff gs ambush with a short dps buff like 10% crit dmg for 10s .ambush skills should last longer , like 3-5s
2.more skills and trait will have build in mirror . like when we summon a phant we gain a mirror .
3.for each successful evade , mes charge a f5 skill : mirage mirror : build a mirror on target location .
Trait :
1. make Infinite Horizon base line , new trait here :when phant gain mirage cloak they also recharge their attack 10s icd.
2. make Self-Deception base line , new trait here : when you touch mirror you gain a clone
3. Dune Cloak : make bleed to burn
4. Speed of Sand , spuerspeed lasts longer , like 3 s . or
5. Shards of Glass : buff the chance to 100% or 66% right now its a crap
6: Nomad’s Endurance : double vigor effect
7.Riddle of Sand: buff confusion duration
8. Renewing Oasis : recduce condi duration all the time . change regen to when u touch mirror you lose 2 conditionn
Utilities:
1. Jaunt : but its range to 600 or 900
2.Sand Through Glass: add second function that you can roll back and gain vigor
3. Illusionary Ambush: recharge all phants attack skill , cd to 30-35
4.Mirage Advance: gain a dodge ,small aoe blind when you blink back , you leave a small aoe blind field
5.Crystal Sands: for each unique condi on foe , apply additional 2 bleed stack .
6. massive buff to heal , either regain us dodge or make it a bigger aoe also water field and the heal number need to be way higher for a 30s cd skill
Axe skills
1.massive buff to AA dmg
2.reduce skill 3 casting time
3.buff skill 2 aoe radius and range .
Or can we get a nnew elite with dagger dual plz
this crap is going take a lot of effort to fix and balance .

Levetty.1279:

This is ofcourse if I buy PoF, there is a lot I like in the expansion but Mirage has left a very bad taste in my mouth.

from what i have tested i can fairly say mirage is worst of all elite by miles .

anet : we designed mirage first lol

as long as pof has same quality as other elite spec im fine buying it .

funny how they managed to make mirage this bad

Cyninja.2954:

No matter what happens, this is basically how PoF will workout for me:

- play my Mesmer main through the story and unlock the elite spec and roam around the new maps checking out most stuff. Depending on how enjoyable Mirage is I’ll either be doing that as Mirage or switch back to chrono or even core power mesmer

- wait for new raid builds to come out and see if mesmer has a spot

- play through the story and unlock the elite spec on one of the other raid classes I am playing (warrior, guardian or revenant). Most likely guardian since the new warrior elite seems way more pvp oriented

- play through PoF with necromancer since Scourge seemed dope and necro in open world is faceroll easy

- finish all the other classes (very likely Holosmith first since it looks nice, might go with weaver too since supposedly the rotation is very fluent)

but i think you dont need play through pof for elite if you have enough hero points ?
or you jsut want to try story out .

thats nice , but i need to see the quality of story telling in POF first so i can decide if its worthy to play story multi times

pinkglow.3429:

I kind of like the spec in pvp, however I don’t feel like using any of the utilities :/
I’m just curious about what to gear, which I made a post about:P
If I absolutely hated the spec, I would probably still play mesmer but chrono instead

i will play mes and chronno still , but i do want to try some new stuff in pof and mirage is being such a let down while they gave war what mesmers asked for years .

even if its power level is low but with some better gameplay more meaningful things to try out . i wont mind . right now , with its current form tho , nope

Cyninja.2954:

The original design idea was for a clone to appear and laugh at you for using the skill but due to time constraints the animation has not yet been implemented.

honestly i think anet knows mirage is terrible , so they added some niche visual effect .

so which alt you guys will play for pof
since mirage seems to be terrible for its gameplay and power level in all game mode .

im going holosmith ,at least if anet ever buff and remake mirage to playable level . i can get that lightsaber from holosmith collection for my mesmer .

and that massive buff and reowrk are kinda wishful thinking given its a month before pof

Fay.2357:

musu.9205:

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

The mesmer problem has always been that it’s very strong against bad players. The mirage mechanics exacerbate this problem. Since the vast majority of players are utter trash in GW2, this leads to predictable complaint issues.

whats what i fear . we will be trash tier for high lvl play but getting nerfed to even more coz those complain issues .

and worse : anet added nice flashy effect on mirage , flash visual stuff sells . they may not be bothered to fix the actual problem before pof .

guys at this point , there is only a month before PoF.

just prepare an alt class to main for pof content .

from its gameplay to power level , mirage is trash comparing to other elite

i will be playing holosmith or weave in pof i guess .

what is worse is people still calling nerf to mirage lol

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

class mechanic :

1. buff all ambush skill , double their dmg . when you hit foe with your own ambush still , it restore some endurance. buff gs ambush with a short dps buff like 10% crit dmg for 10s .ambush skills should last longer , like 3-5s
2.more skills and trait will have build in mirror . like when we summon a phant we gain a mirror .
3.for each successful evade , mes charge a f5 skill : mirage mirror : build a mirror on target location .

Trait :

1. make Infinite Horizon base line , new trait here :when phant gain mirage cloak they also recharge their attack 10s icd.
2. make Self-Deception base line , new trait here : when you touch mirror you gain a clone
3. Dune Cloak : make bleed to burn
4. Speed of Sand , spuerspeed lasts longer , like 3 s . or
5. Shards of Glass : buff the chance to 100% or 66% right now its a crap
6: Nomad’s Endurance : double vigor effect
7.Riddle of Sand: buff confusion duration
8. Renewing Oasis : recduce condi duration all the time . change regen to when u touch mirror you lose 2 conditionn

Utilities:

1. Jaunt : but its range to 600 or 900
2.Sand Through Glass: add second function that you can roll back and gain vigor
3. Illusionary Ambush: recharge all phants attack skill , cd to 30-35
4.Mirage Advance: gain a dodge ,small aoe blind when you blink back , you leave a small aoe blind field
5.Crystal Sands: for each unique condi on foe , apply additional 2 bleed stack .
6. massive buff to heal , either regain us dodge or make it a bigger aoe also water field and the heal number need to be way higher for a 30s cd skill

Axe skills
1.massive buff to AA dmg
2.reduce skill 3 casting time
3.buff skill 2 aoe radius and range .

Or can we get a nnew elite with dagger dual plz
this crap is going take a lot of effort to fix and balance .

honestly this is not even surprise .

that heal skill lol requires mes stand still 3s in same spot basically suicide .

and what helseth said is for pvp

for pve like raid and fractal its even worse