Guild Wars 2

FGS will still be a perfect chasing or escape weapon with little more damage for moving fight .Maybe anet should rework skill #2 and skill #5 a bit right now they are just boring to use (yes more aoe is what ele needs from elite lol)

Tornado on the other hand will be functionally almost useless in all game modes after patch . Its 3 “AA” skills are boring to use and they are like poor man’s hambow build with 180s cd in pvp. About wvw staying with staff skills seems much better .We dont have to disucss pve here anyway .

So add new skills to #4 #5 slot . Rework current skills. These are the way to balance .

Also anet mentioned they changed damage for tornado skills .And we don’t know details yet .Maybe we are worrying things too much .

Teutos.8620:

Scepter Buff might! be too strong, but first I want to test it out.
I’d love to get another option to play mesmer successful, and don’t be forced to play berserker shatter since release.

CI is just fine to play ,not powerful as gs/staff shatter but it’s far better than most condi mesmer builds in tpvp.

Personally i even don’t care about this , since clones are just my damage source for shatter and have little use for distraction in actual team fight. In most cases I won’t pretend to be a clone with those aoe going on.
Best fix to me is : change clones to some different models lets say cats!Then give mesmer the truly balance we deserve .

nearlight.3064:

Finally, this thread is back on track after everyone and their mother decided to flame me for suggesting that their favorite cheese build requires no skill to play.

And Musu. You’re bringing out very negative thoughts within me. If you honestly think that fresh air eles or staff eles or whatever, are a one trick pony, then you didn’t watch the ToL finals today.

I see your point that D/P thief requires more skill to play than D/D. I merely said that D/D requires more skill because of the relative uslessness of things like death blossom or dagger 4 compared to the interrupt, on demand stealth, and on demand gap close, and oodles of damage mitigation through blind that the build has. It certainly requires more thought than D/D, I see that, but in my noob thief mind, I always found that using CnD was harder than pressing 5, and 2 without needing a target. Oh well, I guess I just dislike people who hang on every word to invalidate my opinions, especially the OVERALL OPINION OF THIS THREAD.

I play S/F ele. I play power necro. I play condition necro. I played cheesy kitten spirit ranger. I know how they work, and I’m not going to let someone like you come here on my thread and tell me I don’t know kitten about the builds I live and breathe.

First of all, on one flamed you for what you thought. People disagree with your opinions on what the skillful builds are .

Secondly , did i say s/d is one track pony ever?

About comparing with d/p thief with d/d , let me use some words i said here again :

Watch the actually tournament matches ,compare those players with starters and bad players and tell the difference by the usage of the certain skills from same build .
How many skills a build could offer to clearly tell there are better usage ?
Do those better usage require more thought and active play ?

CnD is harder to land itself but from time to time , d/p thief requires more initiative management and offer more space for a good player to promote .More useless skills offer nothing to promote .
But this time at least you explained how you thought of those builds .This is how we discuss stuff . Inb4 you were just throwing builds to us and saying thats skillful ,and once someone disagree with you ,you try another builds again.

No offense really.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

musu.9205:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

shimmerless.4560:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nearlight.3064:

Well yeah that is true. It’s just for mesmers, helseth suggests that they won’t even need PU, since torment spam will let them faceroll through everything. It’s too strong of a condition to just slap on an autoattack.

No it isn’t. Only on Mesmers is that true because the clone system lets them up to quadruple their condition output. If the clones aren’t applying it, then it can be balanced on an auto.

Heck, even if it was on almost any other weapon, it wouldn’t be so bad, but Scepter clone generation is quite fast.

Have you actually played a Mesmer even once? Are you posting from planet Mars?

Yeah, I do play my Mesmer rather frequently and I use Scepter on my shatter build because it generates clones much more rapidly than any other weapon.

scepter has a low AA speed also barely hit things which is why it needs buff to begin with. Low AA speed is same to scepter clone too .
The thing is we dont have chance to test this yet but problem is anet did balance patch slowly(thanks living story group ) and never reacted to balance issue fast(free signet for war has been used in TOL and no words from anet ,no fix in a month)

Low AA speed, but a cycle of the auto is still faster than any clone generation cooldown. The projectiles home, so hitting is not as big an issue as you make it out to be.

Don’t get me wrong, the scepter AA needs a buff, but Torment on Ether Bolt is not what it needs. Ether Blast is fine getting Torment.

I agree with this but if only ether blast gets buffed ,scepter will stay useless .So i think we need something else beside a damage condition on scepter (even i think it wont make pu condi spec op in actual tpvp).But something different from staff , maybe chill/cripple.

Me Games Ma.8426:

musu.9205:

about charm , I don’t think it’s a good idea to add this as a condition .It’s too hard to balance with current condition and removal system.
If u wanna add such a thing as cc then we could just make spear a land weapon.

I wish I had a land weapon spear… :>

yep black hole we will feel play me2 along with main hand pistol .
Until then we can finally say gw2 is a sci fi setting game.

about charm , I don’t think it’s a good idea to add this as a condition .It’s too hard to balance with current condition and removal system.
If u wanna add such a thing as cc then we could just make spear a land weapon.

coglin.1867:

Sagat.3285:

Are you going to mention the high risk/no reward builds as well like zerker trap thief or zerker signet guard?

Why? Are you having trouble reading the thread tittle? Please do not derail the thread. If you wish to discuss builds that are problematic in that context, make a thread for it or use one of the multitude of them that already exist, to express your opinion. Thank you.

since topic is about anet is creating more low risk /high reward build so there is something to do with definition of risk/reward.

And clearly op has little knowledge about what the high risk/high reward build
are.if anet follow his opinions then even they not rewarding cheese/ bunker /condi build they will reward gambling builds(those one track pony just because they share “honor” with being class cannon )

Klonko.8341:

musu.9205:

nearlight.3064:

Well then, by the logic and opinions of people in this thread, there might as well be no builds that require significant skill to play.

I explained to you why d/p thief require more skill than d/d ,and why shatter/CI mesmer is highest tier of skill play .
what you said is first making wrong opinions about power necro and s/f burst ele . Then throwing more glass cannon builds without any thoughts on them to us to prove you know what are the skillful builds . But sadly you proved that you know nothing about how those builds work.

Are we clear before you are just making up others opinions?

You forgot the only unviable power class -> Ranger. Any person who run a power ranger build need more skill than any of the listed class you mentionned. I don’t talk about the sniper that stay on high ground and #1 all day. I talk about the one that try to decap things or protect a point.

It’s the hardest spec atm because:
1- You have no burst, which means -> you vulnerable to burst and tank usually outheal you. So you basicly you are an attrition zerker class which is REALLY bad.
2- Most unforgiving gameplay from all glass. You more likely to loose any encounter if you miss a defensive skill (such as LB #3-#4).
3- Most timing reliant class. You need those key evades to survive.

Power ranger build are atm are high risk/low reward. It may change next patch!

not viable =/= more skill required

also no matter what build rangers are running , highest skillful builds tier has nothing to do with them .Just check their damage skills and defensive skills. Tell me how hard it could be to use them ?Ranger requires more skill than necro , war and maybe guard .
power ranger = poor man’s glass staff ele .

Beside those said fact , there is a easy way to judge why a build requires more skill than others:
Watch the actually tournament matches ,compare those players with starters and bad players and tell the difference by the usage of the certain skills from same build .
How many skills a build could offer to clearly tell there are better usage ?
Do those better usage require more thought and active play ?

ele is highest tier of all game mode and they are godlike in tpvp when played well.
So before you put very words on war ,people do have different judgement.

On the topic
problem with wars opness are :
stance stacking and long duration of zerk stance
Ire + Adrenal Health+ healing signet just heal too much and with little worry to condition like poison(so instead of a nerf to single rait , anet could move Ire to another trait line)
Longbow + Ire , cleanse condition without hitting any foes .
hammer stunlock still has too much damage ,also its too spamming without much
thought considering its effectiveness.
condition builds on war are just gimmick .they could be so broken for wvw roaming and some tpvp teamcomp.

high mobility on gs and sword is fine by me

nearlight.3064:

Well then, by the logic and opinions of people in this thread, there might as well be no builds that require significant skill to play.

I explained to you why d/p thief require more skill than d/d ,and why shatter/CI mesmer is highest tier of skill play .
what you said is first making wrong opinions about power necro and s/f burst ele . Then throwing more glass cannon builds without any thoughts on them to us to prove you know what are the skillful builds . But sadly you proved that you know nothing about how those builds work.

Are we clear before you are just making up others opinions?

I’m not sure if torment on scepter will be too powerful alone or not .But the thing is you cant really give players a viable condition build that is also skillful. The key of balance is how much you reward those low risk build .Right now , pu condition build is low risk /low reward in tpvp.
Adding torment on scepter has chance to make pu condition build highly rewarding also with IE fix on staff clone .
What anet could do are nerf to pu trait ,change the idea that gives scepter torment or make it impossible to use both advantages in a single build .
We cant really only discuss that single change alone.

nearlight.3064:

Exciton.8942:

nearlight.3064:

The torment spam will allow PU mesmers to kill much faster and pressure much faster.

They won’t even need PU, let alone a brain to win fights.

This is only ur speculation. How much faster will the damage pressure comes out? Have u done a calculation or have you already tested it out. How does the new scepter clone do compare to the staff clone?

The current reality is if u don’t have a brain and play pu condition, you are essentially just a troll not being able to accomplish anything.

http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/c/4965699

I’m taking helseth’s words on this issue. He says you won’t even need PU to be able to faceroll things. Anyway, yeah I haven’t done a calculation, but its basically too much torment for cleanses to keep up with.

Before you follow someone’s opinion to say something is brainless(well that build is brainless i agree with this part). Do some math and think about things yourself with logic .
Also before anyone start QQing “pu mesmer buff” while talking about torment on scepter .We could just ask anet to nerf pu trait alone .

And as a suggestion , i think scepter AA chain could be :first attack with random condition from chill/cripple/blind ,second attack with 2s torment and no torment for clones .Do this after pu nerf ,so mesmer could get a condition weapon set with some chasing ability from current useless scepter .

So we should discuss which will be op first , this change to scepter itself or this change with pu trait on a condition mesmer .
No matter the answer is yes or not , i think we all agree nerf pu is much more needed .

Flumek.9043:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

So on average on a full glass target, mind stab does about 2k. With the dps buff, it will now hit for 2.4-2.5k. Wow, so much more damage.

a) the bigger thing is the aoe increase. before u needed some cc, now its basicaly unmissable

b) because its easier to hit = moar boon strip for mesmer (thief + mes combo > necro boonstrip and works good together)

c) greatsword on mesmer is already good

d) edit: i hope wont mind it too much, but basicaly hellseth mesmer build got immense buff

helseth mesmer build isnt op now and actually itself has many weakness ,also its portal to get him slot in team .If you don’t agree that mesmer is so weak in tpvp right now at least , could you agree that its balanced now and this buff wont broke the balance .

Lifestealer.4910:

People saying as if anet thought it through with these changes?.. since when have they actually think properly with class balance?.. remember those dhummfire changes?.. or the healing signet buffs as well as giving warriors plenty of immunities?.. what about those turret buffs for engineer?.. or the celestial buff on top of buffing ele sustain all on the same patch?.. its clear that anet is making the same mistake as always and are not improving on their way of approaching balance.

+10000
but back to days war buffs are reasonable , they were trash tier in tpvp . But anet overbuffed them sigh. About eles there is a simple fact that many eles are just bad and before the last balance patch eles were trash in tpvp too , so anet overbuffed them again, also it seems they wont nerf them back in 1-2 months.
I believe bad players do affect anet’s decision .those players always think ele arent powerful enough now or mesmer is god because targeting real one is to hard to learn or war has something bad (check those outcry for “nerf” to war in next patch ).
Anet should listen to their best pvp players more than “pvp community”. the actual major of pvp community in teamQ or soloQ just want easy win.

I hope anet rework this skill tho , since its just an addition damage while ccing your enemies .
Now making it with bigger aoe circle is shortening distance between a good mesmer and a ok one .
Damage buff is nice and reasonable (every 12s more 500damage seems fine to me )

Amir.1570:

Generally I don’t like any of your posts but for once I’d say no to Mesmer buffs without trade-offs. They can still strip boons, they can still deal damage even with soldier amulet, they can still kill set up for team mates and res easy without trade-offs. Their survivability is face-roll easy because you can’t even count a Mesmers dodges. Sure you can try to catch them when the evade is about to end but still, they can daze you and blind you when that’s happening.

That being said, your class shouldn’t really get overbuffed either. Your class strips boons, tanks hard, cleaves hard, and chain CC’s the best out of all classes if you knew how to play your class. Which you kinda don’t.

You are talking about thief ?

Anet could make AA chain with first : random from 2s chill/cripple/blind and second: 2s torment and let Clones do first attack and .Rest will be fine .

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

shimmerless.4560:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

nearlight.3064:

Well yeah that is true. It’s just for mesmers, helseth suggests that they won’t even need PU, since torment spam will let them faceroll through everything. It’s too strong of a condition to just slap on an autoattack.

No it isn’t. Only on Mesmers is that true because the clone system lets them up to quadruple their condition output. If the clones aren’t applying it, then it can be balanced on an auto.

Heck, even if it was on almost any other weapon, it wouldn’t be so bad, but Scepter clone generation is quite fast.

Have you actually played a Mesmer even once? Are you posting from planet Mars?

Yeah, I do play my Mesmer rather frequently and I use Scepter on my shatter build because it generates clones much more rapidly than any other weapon.

scepter has a low AA speed also barely hit things which is why it needs buff to begin with. Low AA speed is same to scepter clone too .
The thing is we dont have chance to test this yet but problem is anet did balance patch slowly(thanks living story group ) and never reacted to balance issue fast(free signet for war has been used in TOL and no words from anet ,no fix in a month)

nearlight.3064:

In my opinion, I’d say that the builds requiring the most skill to play are S/D ele, glass staff ele, D/D thief, shatter mesmer, and engi build with 2+ kits. I don’t know guardians or warriors enough to comment on them.

Did i just read d/d thief ,glass staff ele and 2 kits engi build are requiring most skill to play ? in pve u meant ?

first skillful build tier : d/p thief (not those perma stealth troll, note skill#3 always makes great combo unlike other thief weapons ,it is not evade evade and evade),shatter mesmer ,CI mesmer (something that u have to actually take time to build your dps source and take risk to use . shatter have to melee to get full damage potential , CI have to interrupt foes to get might stack ). Few engi builds do require much skill to play well but all condi engi build are medium risk and we all know how the old SD build works before nerf.

Also note these are team pvp builds and require more awareness of map to rotate properly .(decap for thief ,portal for mesmer )
And now you got ideas what the actual skillful builds are. Die easily alone =/= more skill to play.

I do think anet should nerf pu trait tho and about scepter i’m waiting actual test in game (problem is anet really took too long to make meaningful balance change )

MOD buff is a nice add to CI build too (but to use mod we have to drop decoy or nullfield ,blink and portal are pretty much standard for tpvp mesmer)

Sandrox.9524:

Wyrden.4713:

Sandrox.9524:

musu.9205:

Ross Biddle.2367:

How I’m feeling right now,

I got to watching this, http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/c/4965699 and at 5:30 or there abouts my scrub alert alarm started blaring.

the problem is that new scepter is still lack aoe condition pressure which are other conditin classes good for .
Its a braindead playstyle yes .But it won’t change the weakness of pu condition build that much in tpvp imho.
PU itself is just a cancer trait.

I know how good helseth is but lets be more real and add more facts with numbers
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Info-Torment-AkA-Why-Mesmer-Buff-isnt/first#post4323507

You forget that ontop of torment,mesmers have burning AND LOTS OF BLEEDS…
I play mesmer as main.And i dont play as condi and I KNOW that it is imposibble to face PU condi mesmer as it is! infact I was hoping that anet would nerf PU a bit…oh boy what a mess they do…

killed a lot pu condi mesmers

possible to beat, takes some time, just watch so u dont aoe much, kill the duelist, phantasms dont have on clone death conditions, etc

anyway a good condi mesmer could be unkillable

As a mesmer? I highly doubt it

someone just said to me “you are terrible”after a duel lost (i was running CI and he used PU so i guess i should be good to beat pu on mesmer ? shrug)
pu is cancer anywya .

Sandrox.9524:

musu.9205:

Ross Biddle.2367:

How I’m feeling right now,

I got to watching this, http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/c/4965699 and at 5:30 or there abouts my scrub alert alarm started blaring.

the problem is that new scepter is still lack aoe condition pressure which are other conditin classes good for .
Its a braindead playstyle yes .But it won’t change the weakness of pu condition build that much in tpvp imho.
PU itself is just a cancer trait.

I know how good helseth is but lets be more real and add more facts with numbers
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Info-Torment-AkA-Why-Mesmer-Buff-isnt/first#post4323507

You forget that ontop of torment,mesmers have burning AND LOTS OF BLEEDS…
I play mesmer as main.And i dont play as condi and I KNOW that it is imposibble to face PU condi mesmer as it is! infact I was hoping that anet would nerf PU a bit…oh boy what a mess they do…

I totally hate to fight with pu condition mesmer since i was running CI , so the point stays , nerf pu ,so scepter should be a bit ok with .

MysticHLE.7160:

If you can kill/down one person fast and continuously in a 2 vs. 2 or 3 vs. 3 setting, then it puts your team at an advantage.
This is on top of bleed, burning, and torment.

I agree with this part ,but how fast it could be , numbers are there so I think this change isnt huge but IE fix is really better imho .
or just nerf pu trait ,rest will be fine .
Helseth wants mesmer being skillful class what we truly are atm , but you cant really make condition spec skillful ,in this case anet made it worse. that’s all .

Ross Biddle.2367:

How I’m feeling right now,

I got to watching this, http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/c/4965699 and at 5:30 or there abouts my scrub alert alarm started blaring.

the problem is that new scepter is still lack aoe condition pressure which are other conditin classes good for .
Its a braindead playstyle yes .But it won’t change the weakness of pu condition build that much in tpvp imho.
PU itself is just a cancer trait.

I know how good helseth is but lets be more real and add more facts with numbers
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Info-Torment-AkA-Why-Mesmer-Buff-isnt/first#post4323507

everytime mesmer got"buffed" ,noob wars are crying for “reasons”

finally someone with logic and even better with number fact !
+100000000000000 for you

I don’t know this post is supposed to be ironical or serious?
and are you drunk btw ?

Lifestealer.4910:

Its funny that people think 1v1’s don’t occur often in competitive pvp. Also besides, given anets track record i wouldn’t trust their “statistics”, remember the dhummfire patch anyone?

It happens , but that doesnt mean you have to balance bunker guard for 1v1.
Like kill shot could one shot u ,But I don’t think anet should balance it around this situation alone .now you get the idea?

Lifestealer.4910:

Nobody is crying about p/d thief or pu mesmer for pvp but the direction that anet is going, if they succeed in making these builds fit the meta then expect a dead pvp (if it isn’t dead already).

Then please cry for old power block first thanks for help .
Also cry for something which have happened and wont happen to mesmer ?whats the point ?
Shouldn’t we cry for d/d ele , staff bunker ele ,celestial amulet , most war builds ,half necro builds ,half ranger builds and s/d thief first ?
They are basically your wrong direction and in meta (well beside necro build ).
Whats wrong with mesmer build which isnt and wont be meta ?

No
My bar is “portal , blink ,decory/MOD” mimic isnt good enough to exchange any of them .

CI build is such a thing where your cheese enemies always think you are that cheese guy for some reason .
And i guess there is something to do with those people who never played mesmer in tpvp but are crying for every buff we got .

Lucentfir.7430:

If you want to keep torment on AA and keep it reasonable give Clone death traits a ICD and remove it from procing on creating new clones. Unlike Necro, Ranger, and Warrior, those classes can’t consistently go invis gain aegis and passively roll around to inflict damaging conditions and impairment conditions. That’s as far as I can see making it reasonable. Especially since the clone death traits are adept traits.

no ire and healing signet and high hp high armor etc for war , no DS and minion for necro , no evade and passive spirits for ranger then ?
Clone death itself is fine , just test it on your mesmer for god sake ,how it’s hard to do ?
About pu ,it will be fine after patch in pvp .that build just brings so little for team fight ,that’s it. Are we clear here?
But since every time u guys over raged about this trait , i think anet could put it in illusion trait line for less cheese.

Anet could make pu as an illusion GM trait ,and put Imbued Diversion to chaos line with a bit buff .
So mesmer could run condition build and there will be no outcry for pu mesmer cheese.
Even anet dont do this ,condition mesmer is just fine to tpvp (even still sub par anyway ).It’s super easy brain dead but not high reward .So balance wise it’s ok .

Zord.6130:

Any GOOD mesmer is asking to change the scepter auto Torment.

Please ANet, PLEASE, listen to your players. You did it in the past with Perplexity and Deception Evasion, do it again. Torment on scepter auto and scepter clones is TOXIC for the game!

It is toxic but it really doesnt make mesmer op for tpvp at all . maybe anet could move pu to illusion trait line to make it harder to match scepter condition build .

Lucentfir.7430:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Matt Stacey.7415:

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

profession skill balances have always been focused around 5 vs 5 conquest mode since launch.

to disagree with that is simply being in denial.

the mesmer changes are fine.
people are merely overreacting as they have always.

It certainly is not fine, basically a powerful Ranged AA Condition(torment) that can be given to clones, That punishes you with more damage for moving, mixed with clone death trait which also punishes you for killing or being near clones. Confusion which punishes you for pressing any button, and other damaging conditions like burns, bleed, poison and impairment conditions. Cleansing is not going to do anything against a build like this, even if you manage all your removals well there’s nothing you can do against this. Here’s a video of what it is to deal with Condi PU mesmer, now feature in torment. Do you really think a build like that needs Torment on AA?

http://youtu.be/-W3RVKGoih8?t=6m55s

Do u guys really tried clone death trait ?
PU mesmer damage is low right now and lack of aoe pressure .after patch it will have more damage but if a condition mesmer really want to kill someone like necro or engi does then he might drop pu for some actually damage trait and change torch to pistol or iwarden(if anet really fixed it this time ). Also why u need a condition mesmer while an engi could do better condition pressure? are we talking about tpvp ?
if its wvw then as usual , run away from pu just like it as healing shout waror tank d/d ele etc .
It is cheese mode tho but not effective like necro ,ranger or war’s builds. In the end i hope anet could give us more effective fun and skillful builds to play with .But balance wise, nothing wrong with current pu. low risk/med reward seems ok to me .

when power block came out where you guys "anet u should encourage skillful play "?Instead you were crying for interruption (its passive play like war i guess lol)
And now this.
@Sagat.3285
play mesmer and learn how the DD actually works

@nearlight.3064
I’m pretty I can’t beat anyone from TCG ,and it won’t prove that their classes are op . There is one thing called logic.

I tried pu and it’s meh then i went back to my CI and standard shatter for reasons.
PU with scepter still dont have aoe condition pressure like engi and necro means less damage potential and easy to deal with when the meta is guard/ele/war for tpvp.
Adding torment doesnt help pu mesmer that much ,they are already strong for 1v1, also clone death is more a defensive trait (I doubt u even really used it).

The builds a tend to run in pvp right now are glass S/F ele, glassish power necro

about this im pretty sure everyone who has some brain and played pvp a lot will tell you glassish power necro and s/f ele aren’t highest skillful play ,they are not even your words “high risk” at all. what they truly are is one trick pony —--almost one shot u in secs and for rest time they are struggling to stay alive (yeah this is hard while u could have more teammate help after your burst someone down ) that’s how they are played. They don’t have much trouble to land damage at all unlike CI or shatter mesmer(unless aoe is hard to land to point lol).

Wake up and stop crying about P/d thief and pu mesmer ,at least for pvp

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Matt Stacey.7415:

FugueState.3842:

Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.

No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”

profession skill balances have always been focused around 5 vs 5 conquest mode since launch.

to disagree with that is simply being in denial.

the mesmer changes are fine.
people are merely overreacting as they have always.

people just dont play mesmer at all . There are reason behind those stupid mesmer nerf .

By the way ,when the skillful power block came out , how did u guys outcry “mesmer op” then ? And now , block is passive play lol , war is passive class , you just need that as a standard so everything will be clear.

nearlight.3064:

Osicat proved that a 0/6/6/2/0 set up with heal mantra and cleanse mantra has enough cleanses to deal with the conditions of anything other than a dhuumteror necro 1v1. And yeah you’re delusional if you don’t think this is too strong. Engi turrets may not be paper, but they’re on a relatively long cooldown. Clone death explosions will punish you while the mesmer dodges or autoattacks and sets up another one. I played PU when it first came out and now I’m disgusted I ever tried it. I kitten myself of playing a real, skillful mesmer build for so long because of that toxic cheese..

a 0/6/6/2/0 set isnt enough to clean engi nades condition im pretty sure its only enough to counter condition war . You are still weak to half necro builds and condition thief (well lets say condition thief isnt problem here since no one plays condition thief tpvp ). And finally lets say condition mesmer will be better than spirit ranger as it is now with portal for team support .That’s all. It might be too strong for wvw roaming where u can just run away. But in tpvp where the meta (guard/war/ele)stay same ,condition build isnt a best way to go after patch even it will be a super easy cheese mode. Come on you dont even have same aoe condition perssure as necro and engi.

I’m stil playing skillful CI and shatter build in tpvp for reasons.

2s torment doesnt make mesmer a free win comparing with necro scepter ,ranger short bow , war sword , its strong but not op yet .Also mesmer is still super weak to condition even they are using condition build. This is not even any close to Dhuumfire ever was . Mesmer doesnt have something instantly cast and instantly work like necro has for that op burn proc.

Also scepter attack speed is really slow and half time it will miss ,clone AA goes same way .You do have l2p and sidestep or range a mesmer or just kill him before he does anything too much to u and your team .
I played CI build for a while now with zero condition removal. I did just fine against this stupid bunker meta .

I’m so tired with those theories which always happened before actual patch and said “omfg” mesmer will be op"even it’s just a fix for us .And then when patch hit ,war will be happy like they always do for over a year. Because game "balance "did carry them a lot which made them think passive heal ,passive condition removal every sec ,mindless aoe , heavy armor and high mobility those things are standard need to even play tpvp.

To all those wars who always like trolling here , level one mesmer through gameplay and play shatter in tpvp now .Then you have right to judge "op mesmer "

Triumphant Distortion – previously granted distortion to mesmer when you have obtained a kill. In addition to this effect, you will also receive 1s of distortion on all of your phantasms that are summoned.

other stuff are great , only this one is perfect proof that anet balance team doesnt play mesmer at all.

also power lock :aoe now ,180 range not op but really nice addition to my CI build.

Ezeriel.9574:

Do not mess with warriors.

Warriors work fine, it’s the other classes that need buffs.

buff other classes to war current level ,pvp will become even more boring .
there are reasons why players hate passive play , hate mindless aoe and cc spammer .
Not to mention no one wants to watch a match where every class has little weakness and be able to do everything. rewarding /risk rate for war right is 10:1. Current War makes good timing cc ,burst and soft cc condition meaningless .

Well maybe you do like a bunker meta with all this easy mode .But before you think thats a right thing to go , there are more players who want an interesting game .

most hyped balance patch was a joke and now we have to wait another 6
i even doubt they have a balance team now

point is , even anet finally nerf war to ground , It will still be better than now .

A game with 7 complicated classes is just better than a game only with a mindless boring class.
plain and simple.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I like how mesmer gets loads of buffs/fixes on a regular basis (Mind Spike being infinity damage, PHaste working on the best phantasm, insanely good heal skill when most classes got kitten, etc.) and people immediately start crying about a minor, obvious fix to a skill that no one ever used in the first place.

ileap , iwarden are the ones no one used ? what game you are playing .
Phaste is not a buff ,its bug fix ,for god sake .
insanely good heal skill, are you talking about war or ele or engi ?

gets loads of buffs/fixes

give me actually patch note where are the loads of buff from day 1

hihey.1075:

Most Stolen skills are intended to provide help against the spec the thieves are fighting.

I do think they are , but right now they are not .And Consume Plasma does affect. Also i prefer little changes over time thats why i posted this .

hihey.1075:

This aside, in a “pure” 1v1, Power Mesmers (Shatter, Interrupt, Phantasm) vs Power Thieves (D/P Trickery, S/D, S/P) is not “that” obvious. The reason thieves counter mesmers in a PvP match is because mesmers are “forced” to use Portal (and/or LoL) to really be of use in any high end PvP match; not to mention that they have less ports than thieves, meaning that a thief could easily jump on the mesmer whenever he wants during a teamfight, locking him down really fast.

This I totally agree , but some changes will help mesmer a little bit before we rework a lot of stuff .This one i consider is the least nerf to thief and only help mesmers .
Otherwise we would love Riot balance team for LoL ?
Btw before s/d thief buff mesmer had best boon removal on a viable build when necro was not that good as they are now.
Actually I’m playing gs/staff CI build I do have higher chance against thief even with portal(for my rank rate ,many thieves are not that good tho).

And i really appreciate your response ,you actually explain and do have valid point. Most comments here are not so much.Thank you.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

musu.9205:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Because you’re talking about balancing the game around BAD Mesmers and GOOD Thieves.

That’s why it’s funny.

Ok , give me a name of so called good mesmers who actually think thief isnt counter to mesmer?
just give me a name .
It is a fact every pvp player is knowing.

One thing I can tell you, I’m not a very good Mesmer since I main Thief, but it would take a very good Thief to beat me when using my Mesmer.

That is enough reason for me to believe that your premise is based on a wrong information.

If you want a discussion, make sure that your information is accurate first, otherwise, well, you can see the result of that.

Experience is subject , and i think we all agree so called accurate information should be object fact .
You just said your personal experience and belief are accurate , I’m arguing with a computer?
And i will give you a fact , thief counters mesmer due to mesmers heavily rely on single target skill which means thief stealth , blind and overall better blink skills could prevent mesmer using it’s core mechanism.Also they fit same role for tpvp which requires good 1v1 ability and high mobility .
I wish you could understand all above instead just arguing for sake of argument .

Chicago Jack.5647:

BlackDevil.9268:

Maybe you never faced good thieves then, cause overall, thief is the hard-counter to mesmers at the moment.

The reason why thieves have a better game against mesmers is not because of consume plasma.

Sure , but could we change it to give mesmer more chance against thief.
It’s not most important thing ,but since it’s pretty easy to do without rebalance a lot of things which may lead more problem and take more work and time .

Another note ,actually I don’t mind some thief spec counters mesmer(game isn’t balanced around 1v1 but for roam role 1v1 does count much ), right now it’s a serious reason not to bring mesmer (since they are same role and almost everything mesmer can do is inferior to thief except portal ).
There are a lot anet could do to fix it , they could buff mesmer for more teamfight value and sustain , or add more aoe and less single target weapon skills for mesmer or change thief a lot . But over a year anet still considers clone as main damage mitigation for mesmer and gave us stupid pu which is face roll 1v1 build where mesmer don’t need a buff but useless for teamfight (It should be anyway ).

I suggest what i could and see if it will work. And i prefer those little changes over time than significant changes (I’m look at you rune of strength)