One thing that do worry me is thieves. This build has almost no defense against them, their blindspam, and their huge dps pressure. Thieves are the reason why zerk meta is being pushed out.
IB and EB could be combined so that; Your pet draws one condition from you every 5s. When your pet gains a condition, it heals for X in an area around it. 1s ICD on the heal.
Nope. I’m against that idea.
EB is still a useful trait even if you’re not a condi ranger.
I know you really love it, a lot of rangers do, but I think its pretty clear anet doesn’t want us to have both. so are you saying you are in favor of its current placement?
You realize metabattle isn’t the end all of builds. Burst precision has a distinct and build defining use as does burst mastery.
Metabattle is at least much more convincing than taking your word. When I tried creating different builds with it, I was sorely disappointed with that trait. It is clearly a trash trait.
I will not be listening to any typed up arguments based on speculation because I prefer evidence. You could also submit the build here and I could try it. But then you would think I would be biased if it turned out to be a terrible build.
The core problem is being forced into choosing grandmaster traits. Its hard to give us good choices when there are only 3 possibilities for that slot. Being able to place lower tier traits there, or simply not investing fully into a line, give more opportunity to have niche traits. You don’t have to shoehorn in a general trait just to make the line viable.
Then ANet needs to buff Shattered Aegis just so you can consider choosing it.
I don’t see whats wrong niche traits existing like “Expeditious Spirit,” “Amplified Wrath,” “Perfect Inscriptions,” or “Radiant Retaliation” as long as they have a purpose. Especially if they are grandmaster trait. Those are the build defining trait, If players aren’t building around grandmaster traits, then they have failed as a grandmaster.
I do agree that a lot of traitlines needs to have more jack of all trades traits.
Specialization aren’t final and because of that, ANet/the community can easily identify and fix the mistake of traitlines being too specific or that it is too powerful/weak. In the current trait system, the problem would be hard to fix as it would destroy the balance of the profession for all builds.
It is about adding Boon removal for rangers, It isn’t about “bring ranger into high tier play.”
Translation: You don’t have an argument beyond repetition. Shame, it might have been entertaining.
Argument against what? That Rangers can’t be high tier without boon removal? That is false and wrong.
Shoutbow, D/D Ele, Medi Guard Hammer, Cele Engineer didn’t have any kind of boon removal and that Mesmer and Necros aren’t meta tier.
Thieves having boon removal doesn’t change the fact that you don’t need boon removal to be high tier and doesn’t change the fact that Shoutbow, D/D Ele, Medi Guard Hammer, Cele Engineer didn’t have any kind of boon removal and that Mesmer and Necros aren’t meta tier.
I don’t need to make new arguments if he can’t prove that my evidence is false or until he make new arguments/give evidence that Boon removal is necessary for high tier play.
I wouldn’t be taking Beastly Warden with a Wolf anyway, the CD on it is 15s and the Wolf’s F2 is kitten (-20% reduced to 36) so this would be much more effective on Birds or pets with lower F2 CDs.
IB and EB could be combined so that; Your pet draws one condition from you every 5s. When your pet gains a condition, it heals for X in an area around it. 1s ICD on the heal.
Nope. I’m against that idea.
EB is still a useful trait even if you’re not a condi ranger.
Instead of repeating yourself how about you state what would bring ranger into high tier play otherwise you two are only going to get this thread closed with your ‘is not/are to’ skritt.
This thread is titled “Proposed Ways To Introduce Boon Removal”
It is about adding Boon removal for rangers, It isn’t about “bring ranger into high tier play.”
How so? That seems more of a opinion base statement there. It could be just as easy to say that warrior or engineer having condition removal is just dumb, but those exists and have /are getting improvements.
To the one who is saying boon removal is dumb. Okay then, rangers will forever be out of the high tier pvp.
You don’t need boon removal to be high tier.
Last time I checked: Shoutbow, D/D Ele, Medi Guard Hammer, Cele Engineer didn’t have any kind of boon removal and the Boon removal masters: Mesmer and Necros aren’t meta tier.
Thieves say hello?
Doesn’t change the fact that you don’t need boon removal to be high tier.
Doesn’t change the fact that Shoutbow, D/D Ele, Medi Guard Hammer, Cele Engineer didn’t have any kind of boon removal and that Mesmer and Necros aren’t meta tier.
Please don’t do this <\3
Staff is not a condition weapon, it’s a universal utility weapon. Curses are basically strictly for conditions now, I’d be very sad if this happened.
I rather take Speed of shadows over Soul Mark. Soul Marks should just be baseline and staff mastery should take its place.
How so? That seems more of a opinion base statement there. It could be just as easy to say that warrior or engineer having condition removal is just dumb, but those exists and have /are getting improvements.
To the one who is saying boon removal is dumb. Okay then, rangers will forever be out of the high tier pvp.
You don’t need boon removal to be high tier.
Last time I checked: Shoutbow, D/D Ele, Medi Guard Hammer, Cele Engineer didn’t have any kind of boon removal and the Boon removal masters: Mesmer and Necros aren’t meta tier.
Clone Death is the most passive gameplay and unskilled (imo). Robert’s arguments towards wanting mesmers to use their profession’s mechanic is on point. I disagree, it is a good thing to be getting rid of.
I can’t see how condi clone death is any more passive and less skilled than standard zerker that just ganks or run in and make a 2v1.
A mesmer in the mesmer forums just gave a wonderful idea.
So to those all whining about condition clone deaths,
How bout just make it like this, instead of punishing the attacker directly, Make it like this:
Vigorous Dissipation
Grant Vigor to you and your teammates when your clones are killed. 5 seconds ICD. Radius 240. Number of Targets. 5
ICD to prevent spamming.
So yea.
Other examples could be:
Healing Dissipation
Condition Removal Dissipation
You guys get the drill.
That way instead of being passive (like most people say), it would be used wisely like condi removal when you wanna kill it with DE.
The balance would be still fair since, you can never really prevent people from killing your clones, so even if its like that, you will still get the benefit. Also the ICD Prevents the spammy nature that people hate
What do you guys think?
Credits to: MailMail Cho
I don’t get why Condition clone death is unfair in the first place.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
Which is more flexible:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : green, purple, black.
Choose one of: orange, yellow, brown.
or:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
This is what OP is talking about.
Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.
The answer to:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
is orange, yellow, brown.
Choose any other combo is just gimping yourself.
That would not be an option in either system, you can still only have 1 grandmaster overall, a total of 2 majors if you exclude your grandmaster, or 3 adepts if you exclude your major and grandmaster options, with every build requiring a minimum of 1 adept.
The grandmaster slot is the only option giving you access to the entire pool, giving you only 1 of the “strongest” traits in the end, the major is reduced by 3, and the adept reduced by 3 again.
Whatever analogy they are trying to use doesn’t apply to the system.
Think of it more like:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : red, white, blue, green, purple, black.
Simply adding 3 new options with each step-up in tier, rather than throwing everything else away….(kinda like what we have now cough cough)
Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.
However, if we are going to make an exact replica of the current trait system, there would be far less combination if we don’t want to kitten ourselves greatly. Which is easier to balance? A trait competing against 9 traits vs. a trait competing against 2 traits.
I don’t know about Boon removal, but I have an idea for boon punishment.
What if there was a grandmaster trait (lets call it fungal spores or something) that would, when the Ranger is equipped with shortbow, dagger, or torch, create field of effect around the Ranger where each boon on an enemy pulses a corrisponding condition every few seconds? The boons wouldn’t be removed, but it would still be a unique way for Rangers to pressure boons.
I like this idea. This would replace poison master. I can see this compete against WK and EB.
Ok going into more detail about Emphatic Bond, which specialization does it fit? Quick answer is none flavorwise and gameplaywise you still have to shoehorn it into one of them. About whether you can’t move it into one specialization because you miss trait X, that’s the point of a choice, each and every one of them should be something which makes you say “I really want that”, it makes the choice important. Some of them might not be good for what you have in mind but the choice should be real.
Current Problem with Wilderness Survival is that you will go there to grab either one since it’s the only specialization with good condition removal so that fact alone forces you to take it, no matter which of the two you would take.
EB doesn’t need to be what it is currently. Many traits have changed. in fact, EB doesn’t even really need to exist at this point, considering how much better WK is. so where does that leave us? We need a condi cleanse in another line other than WS, rangers should be good at getting rid of condis, and I feel like NM is the best place for it.
Why not add a aoe condi-boon convert to the new Invigorating Bond (f2 heal)?
EB is the jack of all traits. If a build doesn’t use Survival skills, the ranger can choose between EB or PM instead of WK.
Quickening Zephyr was an overpowered trait in the beastmaster line; however, since there is no other useful traits in the beastmaster line, it remained unused ever since they moved it from a adept minor to grandmaster trait.
Because there are useful beastmaster traits, Quickening zephyr may be played again.
It doesn’t help that instinctual bond is not exactly a good trait either, might be better to move load whistle down to adept minor, pet’s prowess master minor, and place merged Instinctual bond and zephyr’s speed to grandmaster minor.
Most adept traits in any professions are useless or weak.
IB isn’t special. What is special are the three selectable major traits.
Cleansing Ire needs to move into Grandmaster Minor trait. Not because Cleansing Ire is a bad trait. But because the other two master major traits will never compete against Cleansing Ire.
But it also doesnt restrict you to wep swap in order to make sure you crit and free up sigil slot so you can go for air/fire.
You can say whatever you want, but it won’t change the fact that burst precision isn’t good and that sigil of intel is always the better choice.
I don’t see any meta builds that uses burst precision. I doubt that any serious/non-troll builds will use burst precision in the future unless the trait changes.
It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.
False.
The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.
For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.
Which is more flexible:
Choose one of: red, white, blue.
Choose one of : green, purple, black.
Choose one of: orange, yellow, brown.
or:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
This is what OP is talking about.
Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.
The answer to:
Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.
Most of your solution is a big utility locker and make the game much more rigid than what we have.
Example 1: Lead the wind – ranger marksmanship grandmaster.
Example 2: Vigorous shouts – warrior tactics grandmaster
These traits are Grandmaster tier. They are suppose to be build defining. If you don’t use these weapons/utility, you can always grab the jack of all trade trait where it doesn’t need a specific weapon/utility.
This is a fine trait, that has one flaw – it improves the longbow so much, that every build without this specialisation that dares to wield longbow will feel handicapped. So the longbow will no longer be an option for builds without this line, and this is not something desirable for a game trying to incentivise build diversity.
Make offhand warhorn 4(charge), offhand axe 5(whirling axe) and offhand mace 4(crushing blow) give you a buff vigorous shout for 5 seconds. This buff is consumed after next shout, to reduce its cooldown by half and heal surrounding allies by 3k.
The difference between Lead the wind vs. your vigorous trait example is that your example will make the game less diverse and rigid.
With all the Longbow traits in Lead the wind, ANet devs don’t need to spread traits around. Players can choose what master/adept trait they want. They don’t need to go to Skirmisher or Beastmastery because another Longbow trait is in there. They can go to Nature magic because they can survive more.
Your vigorous shout example forces me to use a warhorn/axe/mace in order to be a shout warrior. I may have to equip a useless axe and a mace in order to get the full benefit. I still have to go into the tactic trait to get this vigorous shout trait if I want healing.
1)Clarity.
So your idea of clarity is to destroy the specialization that ANet dev’s showed on the stream and rewrite to what you proposed?
Doesn’t the new system only break builds that branched into more than 3 trait lines? And Most of those are still viable because they streamlined all the traits you’d normally have to branch into 4-5 trait lines into 1-2 specializations?
Builds that traits into more than 3 trait lines usually take traits that aren’t game-changing. Usually a 10% more damage trait, a small condi removal trait or that the adept minor trait is very powerful for the very low investment.
My PU and my condition clone death build is destroyed. please unnerf.
Please recognize that you’re not giving enough information and largely wasting your breath until you do.
Based on my limited Mesmer understanding, he’s sad because all the “when killed” clone traits (which were a big part of condi clone death) no longer exist.
Don’t know why his PU build is busted though, the big traits – Decoy at low health, Deceptive Evasion, PU, and the Torch weapon trait- still exist, and are contained to three specialization tracks, it’s just Dueling/Chaos/Illusions instead of Domination/Dueling/Chaos. You’re just going to have to shatter those clones rather than hope the other guy kills them out of frustration.
Because PU is also largely depended on clones dying. Stealth is there to make the enemy guess harder than before.
I don’t know what build you are playing that conclude this. It isn’t condi ranger for sure.
The more I read what you type, the more I see that you have no idea what you are talking about. What I’ve played in the last few hours showed me that you are wrong.
With so many false statements, I really don’t think you would be convinced enough so that thread does not derailed.
This is a thread about invigorating bond, not condi rangers.
Quickening Zephyr was an overpowered trait in the beastmaster line; however, since there is no other useful traits in the beastmaster line, it remained unused ever since they moved it from a adept minor to grandmaster trait.
Because there are useful beastmaster traits, Quickening zephyr may be played again.
I love the new changes that ANET plans to do about the aurashare trait, but making it only 240 radius seems like a lot of people wont take the trait because you have to literally be ontop of a person for it to activate….
So my thought was increase aurashare to a 360 radius that way it is more easily applied and can contribute more to team fights. Let me know what you guys think!
I really hope Auramancer work.
Powerful Aura: Auras you gain from weapon skills are also applied to nearby allies.
But unlike power, Condi rangers aren’t gonna get much more powerful than they currently are now, which is average.
Condi rangers is far from average. Its a great build. Way better than Power ranger.
In the grand scheme of the meta, Condi bunkers are painfully average outside of 1v1’s which are very rare while roaming or holding a point in pvp. It’s not even a competitive build compared to celestial roaming builds (shoutbow, rifle/kit, d/d). All cele builds are better in 2v1 or small skirmish scenarios, which dominate both wvw and pvp meta.
Condi bunkers aren’t painfully average. They have great condi pressure. 20+ bleed stacks would kill any player very quickly. And I’ve consistently kept 10+ bleed stacks easily by autoattacking. Those bleed stacks would make a necro jealous.
I’ve booted up my Condi ranger to see if Condi rangers got nerfed. But, all I see is that you’re wrong after I kept winning and saving the team from 1v1, 1v2, 2v3, 3v2, 4v4, 4v5, etc.
I killed shoutbows, I killed rifle/kit engis, I killed d/d
I think that you just don’t know how to play condi rangers.
I recently bought GW2 over the couple days, since I no longer have fun in WoW. With that being said what class would usually fit my playstyle, I used to main Mage back in WoW, i like magic oriented class, classes who normally crowd control, and overall a range class. Would appreciate if i could get an insight into what class will suit me the best given the previous points mentioned.
Since you like magic oriented classes: Elementalist, Necromancer, and mesmers are suited for you as they are spellcaster classes.
a rush with 1200 range is too much (oh wait, warrior gs?)