Guild Wars 2

Master Ketsu.4569:

sephiroth.4217:

Irysus.4591:

Same here… tried to reduce decay and played some matches. Last match did not reward any points or reduce decay. I’m stuck with the lower badge now, even though the last match was a win and would have done the job for me.
…I expected the end of the season happen at reset or on the next game update.
…feeling upset now :/

Edit: Why are ranked matchtes still available?

Some of us like to avoid the beta maps and continue to use the rank queues to do so, never have to worry about decay problems either due to excessive queuing.

You still decay after the season ends? wut.

No, just having a giggle at all the PvP players who abused the Decay system.

lorddavito.2395:

P.S. no matter how good you are, you can’t carry a bunch of headless chickens. ever.

Just carry me instead?

(toon name)

Expected to climb through Silver fighting Platinums/Legendaries/Top 20 players….

I like the matches, they are usually good fun but it’s the way the system is designed that kittens me, I have to beat those top players to earn my place in Gold instead of beating other Silvers to get to Gold.

Irysus.4591:

Same here… tried to reduce decay and played some matches. Last match did not reward any points or reduce decay. I’m stuck with the lower badge now, even though the last match was a win and would have done the job for me.
…I expected the end of the season happen at reset or on the next game update.
…feeling upset now :/

Edit: Why are ranked matchtes still available?

Some of us like to avoid the beta maps and continue to use the rank queues to do so, never have to worry about decay problems either due to excessive queuing.

Even something minor like 2 rating points a top stat could be useful.

That way if your team loses, you could have most top stats and only lose a few points all up, not that big of a blow.

Maladiktion.1498:

Any pointers for a tweaked boonstrip necro that might help me win a few more matches would be appreciated

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/My-PvP-builds/first#post6477631

Top 3 builds are Necro builds, hope it helps. The top one is probably up your alley, focuses on boon corruption, 2900 power and 1700 condi. High spike damage.

Vallun.2071:

sephiroth.4217:

I’m sure they would be ranked higher if they didn’t farm Silvers to get to the top….

Obviously no fault of theirs and if anything they should be angry about it too because if the system gave them fair matches, they very well could be higher than the other 3.

yea matchmaking isnt great. i remember that night too, a lot of close games simply because our teams had silver players too

You killed it on your Ranger… I’ve started playing mine again for the first time since they added stealth to longbow because of you lol

I miss seeing how many boons I applied.

kdaddy.5431:

Twyn.7320:

sephiroth.4217:

What I don’t understand is: Your rating is that low even though you have better win loss ratio than people in 1400+

Even they guy below you has won more than he lost?

Oh, it’s just another issue with the system. :P

Please do not open up that can of worms.

Last thing we need is for Anet to say ok you want it lets do it like they did in S2.

I think it was Seph posting about playing legendary players and those scores didnt look to good.

Lastly ive seen thief carry hard, i played against and with Edision and in those matches he literally won every 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. Now he is a pro player carrying in the gold/plat division.

All i can say is keep working at it and hopefully MM will be better in S6. Take care

Yea, the struggle in climbing out of Silver is real lol….

Can’t wait for season 6 though, I really like what Anet tried this season and I see it as a very bold and brave move especially since the game out has been out so long, but it definitely needs some tweaks to create better match ups for everyone and maybe a more accurate reflection of players skill and ranking… Plenty of good suggestions across the forums.

Luciferior.4802:

In regards to sephiroth.4217" Side note: I think they should keep rewards BUT lower the starting MMR to 900 or so, it’s bad having new PvP players start mid-top and free fall their way down dragging people with them. They do NOT have an average players skill and should not start halfway, it’s unhealthy to the average gamers…" Sometimes players end up in higher ratings even if they don’t belong there because of how they placed If they got some solid match ups they won over teams that they should have lost to they get placed higher *assuming I understand match making correctly When they drop down in rating its to find out where they belong division wise arguably I my self placed T3Gold when I started the season like 1640 rating highest I ever got did I stay that high? Negative I fell like a rock down to Gold t1 arguably where I belong while I cant say for certain the match making system works good or bad I know deep down I’m borderline an average player and for me to finish out even at gold t1 I probably got lucky

I think you’re being a bit modest and maybe you do belong that high

I just think the side note suggestion would help keep The reward farmers at the bottom of bronze and give people who are interested in PvP a chance to climb and continually climb the better they get.

As Fishball said too, need a hard cap on those ratings in games. I’m Gold now but I had to work through Silver fighting Platinum/Legendary/top 20 players.

Marmatt.8590:

You can always just run the face roll DH and just throw your keyboard against the wall and win generally.

You reminded me of this German kid that played Unreal Tournament…. Old video, some might remember it.

I’m sure they would be ranked higher if they didn’t farm Silvers to get to the top….

Obviously no fault of theirs and if anything they should be angry about it too because if the system gave them fair matches, they very well could be higher than the other 3.

What I don’t understand is: Your rating is that low even though you have better win loss ratio than people in 1400+

Even they guy below you has won more than he lost?

Lucentfir.7430:

-old man voice- Back in my day the only rewards we got were PVP only gear with token Mystic Forging , glory, and the long term rank grinding for Dragon Rank. We obviously need to go back to that system because it was much better, no PVErs coming into my games for rewards!

I miss the Token system….

Side note: I think they should keep rewards BUT lower the starting MMR to 900 or so, it’s bad having new PvP players start mid-top and free fall their way down dragging people with them. They do NOT have an average players skill and should not start halfway, it’s unhealthy to the average gamers…

shagwell.1349:

Are you American? That would make much sense. In that case I try to help you out.
Playing vs. a full team is most likely a loss as playing vs. a 3 or 4 man group. That’s the intended thought behind this:

Back in S4 I got matched up pretty often vs full groups with no group on my team. 5 random players vs. a group of 5 (or 5 random players vs. group of 3 or 4)

And sorry, that I don’t keep all of the old screenshots and for your educational system.

edit: and you really played 7300 hours in pvp? That’s about 1/5 of the existence of guildwars. Go read a book !

I’m sorry I can’t hear you over my Freedom that lets me get all my Legendaries via PvP only.

Also:

shagwell.1349:

sephiroth.4217:

Not to poke holes in your vent, but your pic shows a 3 man premade….

Yeah, haven’t found a screenshot of any of those teams except one from amber in s3 where the 5 man team lost, but I think you get the idea.

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

megilandil.7506:

Evan Lesh.3295:

If point gains were arbitrary as you describe, then there would be no upper bound on MMR, and you would see people who play a lot with 10k rating at the top of the leaderboard. This is not accurate and just takes us back to seasons 1-4.

The reason you are gaining very little is because you are expected to win all those matches and your rating is already accurate. When you lose a match you are expected to win, you take a decent hit. Your history shows that you can easily maintain your rating, which is good. If you’re already one of the best players, why do you need your rating to continually rise?

I can understand the argument that high-skilled players might want some sense of progression past being number 1, but that is outside the scope of MMR. This is one of the reasons you consistently get more rewards while highly rated.

no, evan, not is good, a winratio of +80% shows a machmaker fault, top players vs not so top players, the correct thing is top vs top and the top of the top ones having a winratio of max 60%

The system currently matches appropriately, but the issue is that it can only pair people against people who are actively online and queuing. I think you’re forgetting the top 250 have lives and other things to do besides play gw2 all day.

For what it’s worth, I didn’t run into any of the top 100 players until I got right under the top 250/inside it, and I played up from T1 Silver after my placements.

I ran into top players almost every 2nd or 3rd game, even against a top 20 duo q, as a Silver…

Not to poke holes in your vent, but your pic shows a 3 man premade…. (and even old stat system)

Jeknar.6184:

Chorazin.4107:

lol @ this thread. Blobmander died, dont know how to push button 1 now.

Right? I never understood why there is such reliance on a single person… A zerg simply don’t know wtf to do when the commander dies. It’s like everyone forget how to play the game and just bend over and take it.

I’m actually amazed you still play WvW.

I’d find Rev interesting if it had atleast 1-2 extra utilities per Legend.

Rune Darkmoor.3269:

Bluespell.1926:

Make condi-engi great again!

Dunno though, should invuln be stacks too you think as it seems comparable but for physical damage?

Edit: Hmm, it seems you cannot take condi damage if invuln, so not comparable maybe

Incorrect. New conditions cannot be applied while your invulnerable, but if a guardian tries to use renewed focus to survive with 15 stacks of burning on them they’re going to melt and go down during the channel if they don’t remove the burn.

Condi damage is the only counter to invulnerability when used properly.

What I find rediculous is that warriors can make themselves take 0 damage from all sources between berserker’s stance and Defy Pain, which has zero counterplay outside hard CC, which only delays the fight, it doesn’t prevent them from effectively resetting it.

Patience and boon corruption.

I play Dagger/focus Necro Spite/Curses/Reaper…. Immob spam and corruption is your friend, especially when they zerk up because some have pulsing stability which equals a chance at pulsating Fear. You put someone under a pulsating Fear effect and you should win.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Wargameur.6950:

Khorg.2195:

So….regarding matchmaking/teams… There’s multiple people posting threads on pvp teams in ranked.. yet you guys address everything but that. Can you at least acknowledge that a lot of your player base is upset about this?!?!

It has been addressed already. They recognized there was some flaws in matchmaking and they would change some things during s6.

Evan, I think you said our rating would reflect our skill around ~200 games ( If it’s wrong tell me ). Do you know when the majority of the population reached that threshold ? I mean, in a perfect world, everyone would place themselves in the first quarter of the season then enjoy the game at their level of skill for the rest of the season.

There are changes to matchmaking coming for off-season. I’ve updated the wiki with the changes.

I just checked and it takes on average 43 (+/- 10) games to hit minimum deviation.

Will these changes include a hard cap on skill rating to who is placed into your match?

I’ve been a little salty lately trying to climb as Silver against Platinum teams, Legendary players and even duo queuers who were top 20. I honestly wouldn’t mind the longer queue if it meant my skill rating was accurately reflected.

P.S: Good to see some red tags in the threads again.

The Year of Ascension will continue for ever.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Changes-to-League-Rating-Leaderboard/first#post6476641 Is one thread.

Evan Lesh.3295:

FWIW, I’m looking into other possible stacking issues after dissecting the crap out of the substitutions problem.

From this thread. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Question-3/page/2

And then there’s also

The new matchmaker is not worth risking game stability in a hotfix either.

from this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Question-3/page/2

It’s a valid tactic to play mind games with your enemies as much as it is encouraging allies even when they die….

Have some pre-made text ready to go in local chat, rowdy up the enemies into focusing you instead of your Nec, win fight and provoke them for the next fight.

Exedore.6320:

sephiroth.4217:

I’m trying, I’m just not as good as these players :’( (duo q ranked 19/20)

So hard to climb out of Silver I swear….

Trying to figure out a way for that matchup to happen during NA primetime, but I’m at a loss. That’s one for Evan to investigate. You may want to make a new thread about this so that it gets more visibility.

I’m pretty sure they’ve seen it and the other games I posted… I Don’t mind these games, gives me something to learn from but I am getting over the design of the system and how I’m supposed to climb, so it’s not the match I dislike.

Games are really fun when it’s full of Platinum players, I’ve actually got a chance to hold my own but seeing Naru hit top 5 last night was impressive, nj if you read this

NeXeD.3042:

everyone should go back and re-evaluate there own play. I do not consider myself to be a “GOOD” player. I was able to make it to PLAT while drunk and blazed on a GS D/W all wells chrono rune necro. Yeah i said GS Necro.

I’m trying, I’m just not as good as these players :’( (duo q ranked 19/20)

So hard to climb out of Silver I swear….

Mr Godlike.6098:

Anet plz change character shout dialogue from ,,Chilled to the Bone" to just ,,Dodge".

Everything should be fine after that.

- Reserved for more builds -

Here’s a list of some of my favourite PvP builds, I’ve been pretty effective with them but they do have a certain playstyle to each build.

If you’re a pro player and can poke holes into the builds then awesome but this is more aimed at helping less skilled players improve upson some build diversity.

I’ll start with Necro:

1. Destroyer Ammy build Focuses on might stacking, boon corruption and high spike damage. This is a good one to run with an Ele or some sort of support due to low defensive abilities. This build requires shroud management. Adventure Runes for a 3rd dodge on demand, helps with kites.

2. Paladin Solo queue Focuses on applying max stacks of vuln to fights so your allies can benefit from 25% extra damage. Lots of survivability.

3. Terrormancer This build focuses on removing stability, applying fear and spreading that bomb across to everyone on point. It’s basically an updated version of the old terrormancer build.

Guardian. I’m not going to list all the builds, there’s not a lot of diversity here outside of what people already know so I’ll just leave my favourite 2.

1. Diviner Shout Guard This is not the easiest build to play due to the low health pool but the pay off is noticable. Strongly relies on a Necro for synergy. Boon him up, watch him wreck. This is almost a direct counter to any warriors or cc focused builds, especially on the initial team fight mid so you can push through a point like a train.
DO NOT RUN THIS BUILD WITH MORE THAN 1 ENEMY NECRO PRESENT.

2. kitten that Aegis can bomb This build I feel is almost pure genius. I got killed by it pre-season and ended up paying someone 100g for it. Give it a shot, it’s too hard to explain but basically Aegis can proc for up to 2k, combine that with the 2x Fragments of faith traps and it becomes self explanatory. Works best with Mesmers/Minion mancer but that’s because it scales better with more allies.

Warrior.

Seems like a lot onto the power GS Mace/burst now but I found this build to be similar while also countering the zerk meta.

1. Destroyer Ammy
Basically it’s a tweaked version of the Berserker build. Amplifies that confusion, bleeds and gives it a kick too. For the empty slot I take either “Stomp” or “Signet of Might” depending on enemy comp. Key points to remember – You’re activation of Berserk is AoE confusion – Mace/Shield is only for defense and bypassing Endure pains / Signet of Stones and such.

I got lazy at this point and will post some more later if this thread doesn’t turn into a salt mine.

You’ll see some builds have empty slots, I find those slots are switchable for any trait/utility/sigil depending on enemy team comps.

Navajas.3147:

Also, MMR does not equal rating still.

So Silver players that play with Platinum have to play at ESL levels to make it to Gold?

And to your point above this, same thing again….

Matches NEED to be 250-300 rating at most IF they intend on keeping skill rating next season otherwise the season is basically over after placement games.

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Pretty sure this game used to have a Solo Queue and Team Queue and I’m guessing that’s what people thought they were voting for.

Otherwise you made my brain orgasm with your LF ranked setup.

We did used to have a pure solo queue but the team queue was mixed, not just 5v5. The old team queue was basically the same old mixed queue we had these previous seasons. There has never been a pure 5v5 only team queue.

megilandil.7506:

yep another way for stablished teams to farm easy wins, farming pug teams with the same cordination and mutual knowledge of gameplay as random mm solo ones

certainly game needs a sort of team format, if population low etc, they can try that someone said before weekend tournaments or something similar, but with a true team bias, registered teams and “evaluation” as full team, not by solo mmr median or similar to prevent smurfing or similar tricks
the only way to evaluate players mmr is by pure soloq and for this solo q not is for unranked

Established teams wouldn’t be facing off against noob teams because they would be at vastly different ratings, just like how now we don’t have bronze players facing off against legendary players. Smurfing is always an issue, but it is neither caused by of facilitated by team queue. It is its own unique problem that has to be addressed by anet, and will otherwise exist no matter what queue system you have.

Also, I like the idea of tournaments, but team play in an mmo should not be limited to specific tournament times. Not to mention, the best way to practice for these tournaments is to play together as a team against other teams prior to the tournament, and we currently have no feasible means to do that because the only place that allows a team to queue (unranked) will likely have you facing off against solo players.

It truly is ridiculous that you can not queue as a team in a game mode built around 5v5 team matches in a game genre that is all about playing online with your friends.

Also, the only way to evaluate a player’s mmr is not pure solo queue. The only real way would be through a 1v1 dueling mode. Anet themselves have already stated they can not accurately judge an individual’s performance in a match. Solo queue rating is a guess at your mmr based on the rating of your teammates and the rating of the enemy team and whether you won or loss (though rating gain/loss is your rating vs enemy team rating). And guess what, this same exact system would still be in effect for team queue, because it is still 1 team of 5 vs another team of 5.

One last note, if Anet ever wants to see an increase in teams competing at the pro level, they would be wise to put in a proper team queue.

I never said it was pure 5v5. I said the old system might have been what people were voting for, I know it was never stated if we chose SoloQ it meant the removal of teamQ.

By all means though, continue trashing players for Anets extreme choice, I don’t mind.

Nobody is being trashed……..? lol

Shaogin.2679:

Exaclty! And it is just always so amusing that people constantly advocate for solo queue only and then complain about every aspect of it!

Then there’s also:

Shaogin.2679:

I mostly solo queue anyways and I am looking forward to the league system updates and rewards.

Like I said though, you’re welcome to continue.

If you feel that is trashing people then the forums must be rough for you. I do mostly solo queue, doesn’t mean I would ever want team queue removed. Feel free to browse through my history for that. Let me know though if you have anything related to this topic that you want to discuss. =)

What do I care if you trash yourself? I gave you a compliment and some enlightenment and you strung it out to what it is now. The only thing that’s rough about these forums is the lack of logic combined with sheer stupidity, most people would have been happy being complimented.

Also: “I do mostly solo queue, doesn’t mean I would ever want team queue removed.” – This is what I originally hinted at, which was Anets choice.

Moonsinn.5382:

You guys are all deluding yourselves if you think this skill is acceptable. Typical necrofancers.

I don’t get the issue, is it because Necro has a stun or because Necro has stability?
Or is it OP for other reasons?

I play Nec quite a bit so yes I’m a “Necrofancer” but in saying that, the amount of times my own Plague Signet blinded myself during Chilled to The Bone cast time is ridiculous, ontop of invul/blocks, it can be somewhat hard to land properly.

TFW you down 2 power Necros and they outplay while you downed.

I think maybe Druid is another OP one, but that’s purely the ability to switch pets while downed and activate F2 + Ancient seeds.

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Pretty sure this game used to have a Solo Queue and Team Queue and I’m guessing that’s what people thought they were voting for.

Otherwise you made my brain orgasm with your LF ranked setup.

We did used to have a pure solo queue but the team queue was mixed, not just 5v5. The old team queue was basically the same old mixed queue we had these previous seasons. There has never been a pure 5v5 only team queue.

megilandil.7506:

yep another way for stablished teams to farm easy wins, farming pug teams with the same cordination and mutual knowledge of gameplay as random mm solo ones

certainly game needs a sort of team format, if population low etc, they can try that someone said before weekend tournaments or something similar, but with a true team bias, registered teams and “evaluation” as full team, not by solo mmr median or similar to prevent smurfing or similar tricks
the only way to evaluate players mmr is by pure soloq and for this solo q not is for unranked

Established teams wouldn’t be facing off against noob teams because they would be at vastly different ratings, just like how now we don’t have bronze players facing off against legendary players. Smurfing is always an issue, but it is neither caused by of facilitated by team queue. It is its own unique problem that has to be addressed by anet, and will otherwise exist no matter what queue system you have.

Also, I like the idea of tournaments, but team play in an mmo should not be limited to specific tournament times. Not to mention, the best way to practice for these tournaments is to play together as a team against other teams prior to the tournament, and we currently have no feasible means to do that because the only place that allows a team to queue (unranked) will likely have you facing off against solo players.

It truly is ridiculous that you can not queue as a team in a game mode built around 5v5 team matches in a game genre that is all about playing online with your friends.

Also, the only way to evaluate a player’s mmr is not pure solo queue. The only real way would be through a 1v1 dueling mode. Anet themselves have already stated they can not accurately judge an individual’s performance in a match. Solo queue rating is a guess at your mmr based on the rating of your teammates and the rating of the enemy team and whether you won or loss (though rating gain/loss is your rating vs enemy team rating). And guess what, this same exact system would still be in effect for team queue, because it is still 1 team of 5 vs another team of 5.

One last note, if Anet ever wants to see an increase in teams competing at the pro level, they would be wise to put in a proper team queue.

I never said it was pure 5v5. I said the old system might have been what people were voting for, I know it was never stated if we chose SoloQ it meant the removal of teamQ.

By all means though, continue trashing players for Anets extreme choice, I don’t mind.

Nobody is being trashed……..? lol

Shaogin.2679:

Exaclty! And it is just always so amusing that people constantly advocate for solo queue only and then complain about every aspect of it!

Then there’s also:

Shaogin.2679:

I mostly solo queue anyways and I am looking forward to the league system updates and rewards.

Like I said though, you’re welcome to continue.

I was mostly an Ele player but I ditched it for another class that counters more classes in the current meta – Destroyer Warrior / Destroyer Nec.

It also gets old trying to support “DPS” people who can’t get a down in under 20s.

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Pretty sure this game used to have a Solo Queue and Team Queue and I’m guessing that’s what people thought they were voting for.

Otherwise you made my brain orgasm with your LF ranked setup.

We did used to have a pure solo queue but the team queue was mixed, not just 5v5. The old team queue was basically the same old mixed queue we had these previous seasons. There has never been a pure 5v5 only team queue.

megilandil.7506:

yep another way for stablished teams to farm easy wins, farming pug teams with the same cordination and mutual knowledge of gameplay as random mm solo ones

certainly game needs a sort of team format, if population low etc, they can try that someone said before weekend tournaments or something similar, but with a true team bias, registered teams and “evaluation” as full team, not by solo mmr median or similar to prevent smurfing or similar tricks
the only way to evaluate players mmr is by pure soloq and for this solo q not is for unranked

Established teams wouldn’t be facing off against noob teams because they would be at vastly different ratings, just like how now we don’t have bronze players facing off against legendary players. Smurfing is always an issue, but it is neither caused by of facilitated by team queue. It is its own unique problem that has to be addressed by anet, and will otherwise exist no matter what queue system you have.

Also, I like the idea of tournaments, but team play in an mmo should not be limited to specific tournament times. Not to mention, the best way to practice for these tournaments is to play together as a team against other teams prior to the tournament, and we currently have no feasible means to do that because the only place that allows a team to queue (unranked) will likely have you facing off against solo players.

It truly is ridiculous that you can not queue as a team in a game mode built around 5v5 team matches in a game genre that is all about playing online with your friends.

Also, the only way to evaluate a player’s mmr is not pure solo queue. The only real way would be through a 1v1 dueling mode. Anet themselves have already stated they can not accurately judge an individual’s performance in a match. Solo queue rating is a guess at your mmr based on the rating of your teammates and the rating of the enemy team and whether you won or loss (though rating gain/loss is your rating vs enemy team rating). And guess what, this same exact system would still be in effect for team queue, because it is still 1 team of 5 vs another team of 5.

One last note, if Anet ever wants to see an increase in teams competing at the pro level, they would be wise to put in a proper team queue.

I never said it was pure 5v5. I said the old system might have been what people were voting for, I know it was never stated if we chose SoloQ it meant the removal of teamQ.

By all means though, continue trashing players for Anets extreme choice, I don’t mind.

Shaogin.2679:

Thoth Divine.8642:

Shaogin.2679:

The biggest problem with team queue has nothing to do with population size, it is entirely due to the fact that there has never been any incentive to play team queue.

Absolutely agree with you. I think it’s really sad that the PvP in this game is almost entirely based on solo play. It’s an online game where you can’t even play with other people competitively! That doesn’t make any sense and to me is by far the biggest downside to PvP in GW2.

Exaclty! And it is just always so amusing that people constantly advocate for solo queue only and then complain about every aspect of it!

• Solo players want voip in game, despite anet stating in the past it would never happen. Yet, if they were on a team they could have voip.
• Solo players want class stacking removed, but this would require that classes be locked before the match, which would lead to much longer queue times and could still leave players with horrible team comps without the ability to class swap. In a team queue though, it is as simple as only allowing teams with no more than 1 of each class to queue and locking class swapping.
• Solo players complain about the teammates anet gives them. In team queue you get to pick your own teammates, completely eradicating this complaint. Just think, an entire section of forum complaints right there just gone.

I mean, it just makes sense to queue up for a PvP match the same way you would for a fractal. You put in a lfg, get a group of people together if you don’t already have one, and then queue. In fact, the only real difference in solo queue and using the lfg to team queue would be that if players know you are bad, toxic, always trolling, or unable to play a class that doesn’t fit the team’s comp, then they could choose to kick you from the group and find someone else before queuing up.

Pretty sure this game used to have a Solo Queue and Team Queue and I’m guessing that’s what people thought they were voting for.

Otherwise you made my brain orgasm with your LF ranked setup.

Exedore.6320:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Exedore.6320:

Glicko2 can be adapted to games of random teams and a matchmaker applied. Many games besides GW2 have done it.

I am very curious to know what games use glicko 2.

• GuildWars2 of course.
• CS:GO uses modified Glicko2.
• Various online chess systems use it.
• Dota2 uses what is similar to Glicko based on their descriptions.
• Microsoft’s Trueskill has a Bayesian approach just like Glicko. The biggest selling point of Trueskill is that it has built-in support for random teams whereas Glicko2 has no official method for that.

fishball.7204:

500 rating is too far, even 400 is. Anything above 250 should be scrapped, there’s a massive skill difference between someone at 2000 and 1750.

Yes, a 2000 player vs. a 1800 player is night-and-day. But what about a difference between 1000 and 1400? Your example of the very top is an outlier. You can’t hinder the majority of players to address a very specific case. And if a top player did queue with someone much lower, do you think their carry potential at the average rating is strong enough to outweigh the risk of losing big?

Kokoro.8437:

just to put things into perspective regarding total pvp population, according to gw2efficiency, a skill rating of 1850 is about where the top 1% of the population is.

Looking at the current NA leaderboards, 1850 MMR is at about rank 70.

Thus, one can extrapolate that there are maybe up to 7,000 players in TOTAL on NA that have played 10 or more PvP matches in the last one and a half months.

That’s not a very good estimate. It’s unclear if GW2Efficiency is counting real rating or decayed rating. The leaderboard is decayed, so you’re likely underestimating by a lot.

Kreweless.2196:

And I’m still a little weary of starting new accounts (or players new to sPvP) at 1200. A brand new player most-likely doesn’t have the average set of skills that an active PvPer does.

“Average” is based on the population; it’s not based on any set of skills or knowledge. If 90% of players smash their face into their keyboard to control their character, then someone who smashes their face to PvP is pretty average.

See I’m on the side of the fence that says anything above 250 should be scrapped and remade, I wouldn’t mind the longer queue times now that rating is involved. I know what I provided may be one specific case to you, but it’s not. these games are frequent and sometimes a few in a row and that’s just for me, I’ve read plenty more cases across these forums and these are just the ones people notice, plenty more probably go unnoticed..

Simply put: If people are in the same game with a 600 rating difference, it automatically debunks any meaning to rating at all. Yes it’s extreme but it’s also applicable to the lower gaps from say Gold T1 and Platinum…

Good news is they are changing season 6 but for now all we can do is speculate.

The new matchmaker is not worth risking game stability in a hotfix either. The earliest build to ship these on with adequate testing that doesn’t throw off the rest of the studio will be the off-season build.

Exedore.6320:

Saiyan.1704:

I’m curious where your faith in these test-run Placement matches came from because so many people got screwed over because the system “wasn’t perfect.”

A DC player meant an instant loss. Some unlucky blokes have gotten 3x DC in a row. My 60% winrate means, statistically, i’ll win 6 out of my 10 games. Well I got a DC and another 1 unlucky game where some one dc’d but came back before 2m.

Meanwhile you have those certain few who duo on alt account where one person DC’s to prevent a loss… cheating the system completely. You’re right it’s not perfect, it’s down right broken.

“so many people”

I doubt that. You’re using a few accounts from the vocal minority and assuming it’s the norm. When I look at my friends who PvP, all but one landed in the ballpark (within a couple hundred points) of where they should have been (based on personal assessment and where they are now). So clearly it’s not perfect, but nor is it too flawed to trust.

In the case of DCs and AFK trolls, they typically account for a small percentage of matches and affect teams equally. The only exception would be intentionally trying to snipe someone’s matches.

Some info and studies:
http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/The_Glicko_system_for_beginners1.pdf
http://rhetoricstudios.com/downloads/AbstractingGlicko2ForTeamGames.pdf

Microsoft Trueskill is another rating system. The FAQ has a comparison between Glicko and Trueskill, but Microsoft’s write-up is just a little biased.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/
Glicko2 can be adapted to games of random teams and a matchmaker applied. Many games besides GW2 have done it.

Kreweless.2196:

Chase.8415:

I much prefer Overwatchs division split

I don’t think they divide the leagues. We’ve seen plenty of anecdotes in the forums about Silver players matched with / against Platinum and higher players.

Overwatch does not have league restrictions on matchmaking. However, they do have a much larger playerbase, so finding a close match is easier and faster.

One important thing to note is that Overwatch does limit the skill differential on a group queue. I think it’s 1500 rating (in a system of 0-5000) between highest and lowest member of the group.

Do you think it may be beneficial for GW2 to implement the same cap on matches and skill rating?

Say maybe 200? I know our playerbase is not as big and this could result in slightly longer queues but I think it would be better for measuring ones skill rating more accurately.

Is Rev + Thief a good duo combo? I haven’t tried that one yet.

Stand The Wall.6987:

sephiroth.4217:

I agree that games get a lot better after 100-150 games but I think that’s match making and not the skill rating….

aren’t they the same thing?

I’m not entirely sure with this season, appears people are all over the place. But Krewe is right, the games DO get better after 100-150 games, even if that means you’re silver playing with/against platinum. So technically to get into gold, you need to play at a level higher than platinum.

Kreweless.2196:

Saiyan.1704:

I think you skipped over the point of our (Exodore and I) conversation… He said Placements is a whole lot more accurate than I make it out to be. I was proving him wrong with facts.

I said in my original post that achieving an accurate Skill Rating takes about 100 games. Now who’s skipping?

Saiyan.1704:

I suggest you refrain from replying if you can’t follow the conversation we were having.

You’re not gonna bully me out of my post. I’m sorry the soft-reset and (maybe) unfair placement matches didn’t park you and a lot of people where they felt they belonged. But the system only works after people play dozens of matches.

I highly doubt we’ll face another soft-reset in Season 6, so you can probably relax.

I agree that games get a lot better after 100-150 games but I think that’s match making and not the skill rating….

I enquired in another thread if there was a hidden match making algorithm that puts similar skilled players together while disregarding actual skill rating but no one could really answer that.

I don’t get condi evade problems, they feel like an annoying fly to me if anything.

I mostly play Ele, Dh, War, Necro and Mes though, all are very efficient in dealing with Condi evades. I’m also an Aussie player, so I have a 300 ping and generally about 25 FPS, still don’t have an issue with them.

Ele is ele and will cleanse without even trying.
Dh is the same.
Warrior is the same, just f1 and berserkers stance.
Necro has marks and transfers, so transfer and DON’T attack the thief. Can’t evade, can’t cleanse.
Mes clears condi from shatters, you could also trait from glamour and null field, that really screws up their game.

skylink.4972:

sephiroth.4217:

Kreweless.2196:

sephiroth.4217:

That was one game at my doing, but I’ve had plenty where I was one of those 3 allies just tryin to play the game for the win. Completely out of my control and completely unwinnable and THAT is unfair to a personal skill rating for anyone regardless of division or skill.

Bro, you stated a complaint about bad players and admitted to being one on purpose for fun, in the same breath.

I think your Skill Rating is accurate.

It’s not a reflection of your best intentions, when you feel like trying. It’s an estimate of future performance, based on past performance.

In your case, inconsistent at best (or average, being generous). I hardly think that was your first, or last, afk.

Kreweless.2196:

If you consistently support your teammates more than you don’t, you’ll rise in Skill Rating.

I guess you just have to ask yourself why you’re so emotionally invested in a PvP Badge from an MMO. Is getting that Platinum or Legendary badge really so super-duper important that you’re willing to purposefully set out to ruin a group of people’s experience?

I didn’t start a complaint. If anything I was trying to enlighten.

I have a picture of a game that I just did then and I thought it might be relevant, you’ll notice the account name in the team chat, the leaderboards, my “accurate” skill rating combined with the match making. It automatically says there’s a problem. a BIG problem when in regards to player skill and accurate skill levels.

I’m sure you’re smart enough to see this for yourself? It’s a 600 point skill rating difference but we are on the same team, I also posted my skill rating gain, is +20 a game I’m meant to lose? On top of that is my total win loss ratio too so I can show you that matchmaking will always make me win some, then lose some, meaning I’m never going anywhere after my placements….. I’ll just leave it there.

WOW DUDE!!!! How dare you not to beat someone with 600+ rating? I mean if u cant beat someone who is 1800 rated you deserve to be 1200. And if you think that you are 1300 rating worthy, you have to beat that 1800 rated guy.
It all makes sense now, the skill rating accuracy its just amazing. Its all logic and math it must makes sense. 1200=1800 is the new guild wars 2 logic generation. You must let go your sanity and just accept the beauty of the logical matchmaking system.

He was on my team and I still gained +20 so I assume the other team had even better players. It was some really good games, the sort of games that I used to play BEFORE season 5 mmr reset combined with what we called placement matches. Might have missed the mark on your sarcasm though

Kreweless.2196:

sephiroth.4217:

That was one game at my doing, but I’ve had plenty where I was one of those 3 allies just tryin to play the game for the win. Completely out of my control and completely unwinnable and THAT is unfair to a personal skill rating for anyone regardless of division or skill.

Bro, you stated a complaint about bad players and admitted to being one on purpose for fun, in the same breath.

I think your Skill Rating is accurate.

It’s not a reflection of your best intentions, when you feel like trying. It’s an estimate of future performance, based on past performance.

In your case, inconsistent at best (or average, being generous). I hardly think that was your first, or last, afk.

Kreweless.2196:

If you consistently support your teammates more than you don’t, you’ll rise in Skill Rating.

I guess you just have to ask yourself why you’re so emotionally invested in a PvP Badge from an MMO. Is getting that Platinum or Legendary badge really so super-duper important that you’re willing to purposefully set out to ruin a group of people’s experience?

I didn’t start a complaint. If anything I was trying to enlighten.

I have a picture of a game that I just did then and I thought it might be relevant, you’ll notice the account name in the team chat, the leaderboards, my “accurate” skill rating combined with the match making. It automatically says there’s a problem. a BIG problem when in regards to player skill and accurate skill levels.

I’m sure you’re smart enough to see this for yourself? It’s a 600 point skill rating difference but we are on the same team, I also posted my skill rating gain, is +20 a game I’m meant to lose? On top of that is my total win loss ratio too so I can show you that matchmaking will always make me win some, then lose some, meaning I’m never going anywhere after my placements….. I’ll just leave it there.

Kreweless.2196:

hackks.3687:

It’s 5v5 and you can’t queue with a team but you are rated only on team performance. That’s 80% of the effort and decision making on your team that is entirely out of your control. That’s 80% of your rating that is not derived from your actions.

This is the argument that just about everyone (myself included at times in the past) deploys when they’re dissatisfied with their Skill Rating.

It takes an exceptional player to consistently support their team through wins. Only those players (as stated, the top 10% of thousands of players) rise out of the majority of the player-base into Platinum/Legendary.

These statistics and ratings are derived from aggregations of experiences. You can’t get a few bad matches and cry, “Foul! ArenaNet isn’t supporting my belief that I’m better than everyone!”

I think the average player is way more willing to poopoo on their teammates for mistakes and cry “MMR is broken, I didn’t get good teammates again!” than they are to examine their gameplay and get better.

If you consistently support your teammates more than you don’t, you’ll rise in Skill Rating. I think the numbers prove that. I think a lot of the stories of climbs through the rank support that proof.

But 1 player can and will throw the game if he see’s fit. It happens a lot in “elo hell”. I’m not too proud to say this, but I threw a game with a 250 point lead just annoy some kid who was abusing everyone and I actually had more fun watching him rage than actually winning the game. I even jumped on his corpse as he was down and getting stomped. (I could have easily saved him too)

Was it fair to the other 3 players on my team? Hell no, but according to you, they should have carried us 2 crap heads for the win, and if match making was awesome and put similar levels of skill together, we probably should have won that regardless with such an extensive lead.

That was one game at my doing, but I’ve had plenty where I was one of those 3 allies just tryin to play the game for the win. Completely out of my control and completely unwinnable and THAT is unfair to a personal skill rating for anyone regardless of division or skill.

(don’t feel sorry for that guy either, over 3 games he afk the first one, raged the second and 3rd one before I’d had enough)

Everyone got their rewards and left. Matches have gotten way better lately, these are the matches I play for, as rare as they are some days. This game in particular was 10 points difference until the end.

steelheart.7386:

Exedore.6320:

Saiyan.1704:

It’s why the Placement matches is an utter joke and it’s why things always start to “settle” towards the end of a season.

You’re misinterpreting the purpose of placement matches and are vastly exaggerating their inaccuracy.

Placement matches basically exist to mask the large rating shifts when your rating is relatively unknown, especially if you haven’t participated at all or in a long time. If players saw rating changes of +200 or -200, they’d freak out. By the time you finish those placement matches, your rating is relatively close to where it should be and shifts will mostly be small. There are outliers, but the majority will be in the ballpark.

It’s important to remember that rating should not be thought of as an absolute number. In Glicko2 there’s actually a second number, rating deviation, which expresses the bounds where you skill actually is. Shifting up or down 50 points from day to day is perfectly reasonable and doesn’t mean the system is inaccurate.

Another thing to note is that when you compact ratings (like the soft reset), it does take a while for players to spread out again, especially at the top and bottom. If you’ve been near the top since the start of the season, you’ve probably noticed your rating go up by 50-100 points since the start. This isn’t an affect of individual games played, but requires all players to play more games.

We don’t need more placement matches necessarily what we need is a hard MMR reset. You can’t go to a basically solo queue league system and rely so heavily on MMR a lot of people built up playing mainly in groups in the past for initial placement. Everyone should get a fresh start when you change things so radically. Each season should be unique if they are so good at catching skill level in a minimum amount of games as you claim they are why not just rely on the placement games totally? This game has been out for like five years time for a MMR reset! They also need to find a way to encourage people to play in a range of games of around 200 total at least during the season to eliminate any of the luck factor and eliminate doing things like starting highly ranked and then playing the bare minimum to try to protect your rating.

BIG NO TO MMR RESET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

NO!
NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!

After a soft reset, it took me 150 games or more before I started playing with allies and enemies of similar skill. Now my games are usually 3/5 allies know what to do, not me and maybe 1 other if I was lucky.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to reset my MMR after this season. The math says I was 1600+ before placement games which means my MMR has dropped nearly 400 and it’s been a hell of a time trying to get back to the “good” matches because people in this tier, the matches in this tier are really random. (I’m OCX, may not be like this during Prime)

Evan Lesh.3295:

We’ve done a full reset before and it was awful. Keeping everyone’s relative position means matchmaking isn’t completely random at the start of the season.

1, I’m having fun until the match making screws up my game.

2, Playing for fun.

3, Nothing wrong with tactics.

4, There is heaps of builds to use, but only 1-2 low skill high reward builds for each class.

5, All of my builds are non-meta. Only use meta builds on Thief because I don’t understand the class traits/utilities and playstyle properly.

6, There are plenty of Amulets, most go to builds that are non – meta. Removing Clerics was a good choice too, although I was using Menders when Clerics was available because crits are fun.

7, I think it’s Shift + Click to ping, hold for other options such as ticks and crosses and “DANGER!”

8, Not enough new maps. Temple stayed, Courtyard was scrapped, We got hammer, Capricorn twice, Eternal and that’s all I can think of for now.

9, Perma evasion – Perma black – Perma Invuln – eh, it does get old, no argument there.

10, Tiny community – This is more apparent being OCX. Games are so one sided sometimes that you can afk and still win if you were put on the side matchmaking thinks is going to win.