Guild Wars 2

Pyriall.5027:

Malchior.5042:

glaphen.5230:

Allie Murdock.8152:

We are extremely specific about what is being released regarding PvP in John’s blog.

To quote from it, we say the following regarding this:

• “This post is to let you know that glory will no longer be awarded as of a maintenance build that is currently planned for March 18.”
  • Given that we have been calling the next phase of PvP the feature build, I’m surprised it wasn’t assumed that maintenance != feature here. Regardless, the next quote fully addresses that.
• “The glory vendor that was introduced in the December 10 build will remain until the new reward system is released in a later update "
• “Because these rewards are being removed in preparation for the next phase of the PvP reward updates”

In nearly every paragraph of this blog post, we discuss either what exactly is happening in this build, or mention that it is not a part of the next phase of rewards.

This is why I am confused as to where the misconception came from.

Holy kitten………………..
How hard is to just say whether or not the 18th patch will include all the balance changes talked about for months.

Because they don’t want to reveal said changes until they’ve been thoroughly tested and confirmed to be included in that release build.

If they say “balance changes coming on X date”, the community will berate them non-stop about what changes are coming. No changes can be stated until it’s confirmed in a stable state for release – it’s the nature of software development, especially agile development/iterative design that Arenanet uses. Anything can change at a moment’s notice.

EXCEPT…WOW, the largest mmorpg, always lists balance changes in advance and gasp they have PTR to test the changes and take feed back on. So NO.

Cool story, but this isn’t WOW now is it?

PTR in this case doesn’t actually do anything beneficial, all it does is act as a preview for stuff.

xantosnightwish.5438:

silvermember.8941:

They already said that months ago weeks ago unless you were not paying attention. The feature patch will probably come out in April.

True, but some people have still been asking or saying that the March 18th patch will be the feature patch and ANET hasn’t exactly come out and officially said “Hey it wont be March, it will be April or May”. Grouch’s post was the first time I actually saw ANET clarify the confusion people are having so I figured Id let people know

Actually allie clarified that a while back.

They already said that months ago weeks ago unless you were not paying attention. The feature patch will probably come out in April.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d say there is a pretty strong sentiment against the idea of collapsing all of WvW into 3 colors, rather than the current world set up. Which I agree with. I think world pride and association is an important part of the way that WvW works currently.

Here’s a possible version of shorter matchups that wouldn’t necessarily sacrifice the long term fight of a WvW matchup currently and wouldn’t involve merging everyone into one of three teams.

Matches last 8 hours, there are 21 matches in a week with the same 3 worlds, the winner of the week is the world that wins the most matches over the course of that time.

This solves some of the problems we see currently, namely the issues that can arise as matches get out of hand towards the end of the week. However, it would still give worlds with better coverage a leg up on their opponents. It also loses the feeling that you’ve had a long term battle for victory.

I’m curious what you all think of that? Does it retain the feeling of victory in WvW right now and solve problems or does it just introduce more issues without solving any core concerns?

21 matches really? That is too much.
8 hours is too short because you the cost of upgrading forts and all that stuff takes a lot of gold. And holding stuff becomes less viable.

With that said, of course there is strong opposition. The servers that spent money stacking for easy victory don’t particularly like the idea that they waste their money and their easy win.

The point being, having the matches be too short undermines bothering to capture and upgrade forts.

Making it into a red and green and blue insures that coverage is NEVER EVER a major issues. There is always someone somewhere and it comes with the added bonus that the smaller servers at gets to enjoy WvW in its full glory.

Short of doing that, WvW will always be a coverage and smaller non WvW focused servers are always going to be screwed.

ADDED: there is no point system that will fix WvW and make it fair. The only way to is go extreme and make coverage less of an issue. Assuming 18 main NA servers, having 6 servers together issues that there is always coverage.

to fix WvW, you have to go Nuclear and you will have to kitten people off, but they will get over it. It is better to have a functional WvW and make a few people mad than to have the current terrible system. Just remember a lot of people were mad about the existence of EoTM. In an MMORPG they will walys be mad and angry players, but you have to do what is best for the game even if it goes against some players interest.

Shatters.4953:

Faster and more frequent PvP updates to balance.

Yep. Balance patches every 1.5 months to builds that have been consider OP for longer than 3months.

There is a rumor that the crafting will require at least 15 vision crystals. Not 100% certain, I just read it somewhere.

Vol.7601:

lol grapes touched 5s. Man that’s ridiculous.

People are easily manipulable.

Unless you are in love with particular back item look, there is really a reason to bother with.

Solo.9027:

Solo.9027:

Ascended is probably not ideal for you then, just go with a single exotic spinal blade pack and pass it around as needed.

Does the spinal blade pack become soulbound if you continue upgrading to Ascended?

And is the stat change for the spinal pack only a one-time thing when you upgrade it, or can you change stats around when you pass between characters?

It will be account bound once you equip it.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Zuik.7158:

silvermember.8941:

Zuik.7158:

Iason Evan.3806:

These CDI’s are starting to feel more and more like an appeasement process on your guy’s end than something that is actually happening.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

The CDI have had some effect mainly in PvE. The way scarlet has improve and certain additions like her hideou and the players interaction with Majory with the investigation are the result of player complaints about the player’s role.

If you are doing CDI expecting immediate changes then you are missing the point of them and the reality of developing an MMORPG.
1. Just because a CDI exist doesn’t mean it will be implemented, they are simply asking for ideas.
2. Assuming there is a good idea, the time it takes to design and implement the idea will take a few months. You probably wont see major changes to the game because the developer is lagging by a few months. You will probably see it later.

With that said, if you are not too happy about the results, you don’t have to participate. It doesn’t hurt to participate and if you are on the forums you are probably doing something less significant than contributing to a CDI.

They are asking for ideas under circumstances that will result in a mass response of mostly non-implementable (excuse my english) but strong ideas simply because people do not know what major changes are already upcoming for sPvP.

So yes, I believe this CDI thread is just another way of giving players hope. As for the other CDI threads, they are very far from this hole and probably contribute to the game a lot more.

3, The cdi’s will attract “newbie” pvp players mainly, who might have opinions but their opinions are based on less experience and so are often misleading. The result of this CDI will be negative for the community therefore. Even the people suggesting stuff will be QQing about the stuff they suggest further down the road when they understand the game and its flaws.

Did you consider that was the point of this? Why would they be removing breaking all the ways around PvP and PvE if it wasn’t to attract a lot of potential PvPers that are avoiding PvP since it has no rewards.

This seems less about bringing back Old PvPs and more about attracting new ones.

Zuik.7158:

silvermember.8941:

Zuik.7158:

Iason Evan.3806:

These CDI’s are starting to feel more and more like an appeasement process on your guy’s end than something that is actually happening.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

The CDI have had some effect mainly in PvE. The way scarlet has improve and certain additions like her hideou and the players interaction with Majory with the investigation are the result of player complaints about the player’s role.

If you are doing CDI expecting immediate changes then you are missing the point of them and the reality of developing an MMORPG.
1. Just because a CDI exist doesn’t mean it will be implemented, they are simply asking for ideas.
2. Assuming there is a good idea, the time it takes to design and implement the idea will take a few months. You probably wont see major changes to the game because the developer is lagging by a few months. You will probably see it later.

With that said, if you are not too happy about the results, you don’t have to participate. It doesn’t hurt to participate and if you are on the forums you are probably doing something less significant than contributing to a CDI.

They are asking for ideas under circumstances that will result in a mass response of mostly non-implementable (excuse my english) but strong ideas simply because people do not know what major changes are already upcoming for sPvP.

So yes, I believe this CDI thread is just another way of giving players hope. As for the other CDI threads, they are very far from this hole and probably contribute to the game a lot more.

I would agree if it was about new mechanics in PvP or new feature. Rewards are not on the same scale as redesigning mechanics and or new feature.

The questions seem more about rewards that will attract players to ladder and less about major changes. Implementing rewards to attract players now that they are not longer concerned about completely separating PvP from PvE and vice versa.

But like I said, they are not forcing you to participate. You can ignore it and go on your merry way.

T

Speaking as someone that does both PvE and PvP but leaning signficantly more on the PvE spectrum, here is what I think.

What type of structure would you find interesting for leagues and ladders?
Team and individual.

With brackets for skill level. So depending on how many PvP games you have played you will be place within bronze, silver and gold. This will allow players that intentional tank their rating to avoid fighting players of higher skill level and gives noobs a decent chance even and illusion of chance a chance of standing a chance.

Then at the end the best team and players fight.

How long should a season last?
7 to 9 weeks but preferably 8 weeks.

What would motivate you to play in one?What types of rewards would you like to see?

Nice rewards that are applicable to both PvP and PvE. Sicne we don’t know the new progression system, I cannot comment on exactly what. But assuming you go through with letting PvE skins into PvP and vice versa, unique armor skins, gems, ascended materials ( a decent amounts more a few hundred since it is over an 8 week period).
Gems for the winner, custom perma finisher. Exclusive legendary skins for the winners/team.

How would a player earn these rewards?

Some of the basic rewards you win it by reaching a certain threshold similar to monthly and dalies. But the most important thing is that they cannot directly include capturing control points or killing players because it will make people tempted to not work holding points but instead going to cap points and zerging.

Number of matches should be rewarded and wins. Number of matches should give more and better rewards than winning matches, so that you are not screwed for having back luck.

How would you encourage players of all skill levels to participate?

Better rewards. I mean really really good rewards. I mean like rewards that doesn’t punish the PvEer (assuming that is your intent) for leaving their easy PvE farm to go do PvP. So give them a few ascended mats and champ loot boxes with a chance for ascended and precursor equipment as usual, similar to world bosses.

But the most important thing is that you have to find a way to separate the experienced players from the pure nooobs. Which will mean make brackets that completely prevents grouping players who have no experience with some that do because PvPers tend to be extremely rude to players when they don’t have it their way, which discourages certain players from returning.

The goal should be to give enough rewards per match for the equivalent amount in PvE. I keep saying ascended materials, make it so that they can drop from the PvP side for winning a match.

Include an ingame method for popular builds. It will be a good start for the new players since their. And for god sakes please improve the game’s balance but that is beyond the scope of this discussion.

mercury ranique.2170:

Healix.5819:

mercury ranique.2170:

Malediktus.9250:

I remember how a dev said it wont come back because it would be unfair to people.

link the quote or it didn’t happen!

ColinJohanson.2394:

As for the jet pack, those specific rewards are intended as limited rewards you can only earn during that time, thus making them valuable. It wouldn’t be fair to the people who did earn jet packs for us to bring them back, and suddenly undercut their value entirely.

Thanx, but I asked for a link to the quote, not for a quote. He obviously said things before and after. It is your judgement that makes you pick this quote, but I would love to see the whole story.

Don’t get me wrong. I know for a fact that colin has not always been a man for his word. He has been promising thing that he didn’t deliver. It even seems to be his weak point. he keeps falling into his own trap (for the rest your doing great colin). but if you just look at https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/ you will find a lot of unforfilled promises:
1: no new trasits, just some replaced
2: legendary gear
3: new legendary weapons
4: ‘craftable’ precursor

Just to name a few. I like Colin’s enthousasm and I do think he is doing the best he can for this game. but he is not a good politician. He has been making some promises he didn’t keep.

So all thats left is: ‘Colin: where are my garanteed precursors?? don’t listen too much to mr. J.S. (see my signature!!)

Everything you link to the reasonable person would seem less like Colin and more like marketing and CEO thing aka executive decision over Colin. It seems to me they feel that there is no reason to bring those things out and simply package them as an “expansion worth of content”. Personally, given what we have seen with the dataming they could released some of these stuff now, but it makes very little marketing sense to, when you have ESO coming in april.

Doggie.3184:

No ones going to spend them on Peaches?

Why?

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I’m still trying to figure out why anyone is paying 10 gold for something that is 100% cosmetic.

Because it is 100% cosmetic. The value is with the beholder.

necro and mesmer have an easier time in PvP. Necro being a little higher.

Ele has a lot of problems and right now are not part of the general PvP meta. Usually a team with an ele is extremely beneficial for the opposite team.

WvW the ele is mainly a backline class with the staff AOE.

In any case, the ele is the weakest class with respect to nearly all forms of PvP (general wvW except for zerging and spvp). right now the ele requires too much effort 3 to 4 more effort for average performance in PvP.

The great thing about gw2 is you can make a class try it out in spvp see if you like it. Which you should do.

Finally, gw 2 mage classes do not operate in the same manner as other games.

Warning, someone has gotten suspended for posting these notes.

@Joseph

None of these changes are compelling enough to get me get out of water and arcane.

While these are nice changes, they don’t come with any increase survivability and thus I am still a free kill for any class that has a good amount of dps.

I go into water and arcane to improve my survivability not because I enjoy going to them. So these changes are nice PvE changes, it still wont bring ele into PvP meta though.

is there any way to get the vista point south of Trader Forum WP?

Mystic.5934:

I think it was more a question of who fixed it.
before, the bug-fixing team would of been on it
now, it became part of the living story team’s perview

It only seems that way becasue you don’t know what you are talking about.

The Living story team is only responsible for living story stuff. The other teams stuff are all being saved until march/april because to them none of those things are important enough to fix it. Also it makes for a good laundry list of changes. Right now they are supposedly on crunch time trying to finish and tie up the stuff to be release in april.

They do drop but they are not guaranteed but the minimum threshold is 1500 citizens.

OP why don’t you go zerg your way into saving 1500 citizens then come back and tell us how you did it.

OP just like most people don’t play attention to detail and then come and whine about something that it is their own fault.

There is no such things as PvE meta.

Anything and everything can work in PvE.

I feel like meta gets thrown around too much.

thefantasticg.3984:

silvermember.8941:

thefantasticg.3984:

silvermember.8941:

Anet cannot control human behavior, the only thing they can do is not reward zerging and they are not rewarding it any more. People are going to follow the commander because that is where people are more likely to be at, it sucks but as they say, “old habits die hard”.

Only habit of mine that’ll die is my interest in this game. I like the zerging. I’ve tried the new content but I’m better off just staying in QD or FG for the champ zerging.

silvermember.8941:

Also this is the first week, it took a while for people to get acclimated with the marrioniette it will take a while for it to finally sink in that the best way to do the event is not to zerg.?

Marrioniette is still a zerg. It was split into five zerging lanes. Hated it because bads made me fail the event because the OTHER pads were lost. GG. Not to mention rewards weren’t great by any stretch of the immagination.

Thanks for sharing, but I don’t really care what you like.

And thank you for sharing your complete lack of understanding on what zerging actually means.

Don’t worry, snowflake, the feeling is mutual… which of course what another post was about that players just don’t care about other players. And yeah, if you think zerging means more than just loots, then yeah, I can’t help you. No one refers to “organized” zerged because there is no such thing.

If the feeling as mutual you wouldn’t have taken the time to respond to a post not directed at you.

But whatever helps you sleep at night, slick.

Romek.4201:

azuzephyr.7280:

It’s a cute idea, but there are glaring issues in pvp that need addressing before we can start to look at throwaway maps to match living story events.

This would serve no purpose and take away valuable resources from the stuff that actually needs to be looked at.

ok what this would bring arenanet?

• PVE people maby goes PVP
• PVP people maby buy gems same as PVE People for this living story things when can be part in this living story
• a simple method to bring living story rewards in spvp
• more maps for custom arenas – maby players find something cool with this

what this bring for PVP people?

• something to do
• when living story team works on pvp pvp gets attention, this means maby more players, this means maby more interessting for arenanet, this means maby someday not everything is only on the horizont

Let examine all your points.
1. The PvEer are still not going to do PvP since a lot hate PvP of any kind. secondly, why would you want to experience a kittentier version of the livingstory. At best the maps can only be theme in the manner of the livingstory it can’t actually have many of the elements because PvPer will QQ about PvE being in PvP.

2. How exactly would livingstory get PvPers to spend more money on gems? Why would they again?

3. This is already supposedly being done for the big update in april. I think.

PvPer side.
1. What is exactly stopping them from trying the Livingstory story? Maybe the few the PvP only hardcore players but I suspect those numbers are low.

2. The livingstory team is NOT the same as the team that works on the PvP side of things.

3. They seem to be a lot of maybes.

The point being we don’t know what is coming in april. It seems to be that Anet is trying funnel players into PvP by letting them keep their PvP stuff and PvEers by letting them keep their PvE stuff in PvP. Your suggestions imo, isn’t going to do anything. The thing holding back PvP isn’t the fact that there is no livingstory. The thing holding PvP back is the lack of game modes and how terrible the balance is.

The livingstory is just an unneccessary workload for something that is not going to be beneficial to anybody. Just remember, if they are working on the livingstory (PvP devs) they are probably not working on PvP stuff. This is ONLY applicable to the PvP side of things.

Heezdedjim.8902:

And there is no reason to group randomly just to get into team Q, because then you just face a very good chance of taking a motley PUG group with no coordination, comms, or strategy up against a well oiled premade with voice comms and an optimal team comp, all playing at the top of their game.

Actually you are wrong. There is a lot more reason to do team vs solo queue.
1. No skyhammer.
2. The rewards are better enough.
3. A lot of the time you fight against pugs as well.
4. Not 100% but less 4v5.
5. The lose in TeamQ is better than SoloQ.

Phlogus.2371:

Do the heirlooms come in the supply bags or only from the rubble piles? I have missed some and need to catch up.

Both. and the rubble resets supposedly at reset.

thefantasticg.3984:

silvermember.8941:

Anet cannot control human behavior, the only thing they can do is not reward zerging and they are not rewarding it any more. People are going to follow the commander because that is where people are more likely to be at, it sucks but as they say, “old habits die hard”.

Only habit of mine that’ll die is my interest in this game. I like the zerging. I’ve tried the new content but I’m better off just staying in QD or FG for the champ zerging.

silvermember.8941:

Also this is the first week, it took a while for people to get acclimated with the marrioniette it will take a while for it to finally sink in that the best way to do the event is not to zerg.?

Marrioniette is still a zerg. It was split into five zerging lanes. Hated it because bads made me fail the event because the OTHER pads were lost. GG. Not to mention rewards weren’t great by any stretch of the immagination.

Thanks for sharing, but I don’t really care what you like.

And thank you for sharing your complete lack of understanding on what zerging actually means.

250 years is a long time slick. You only need to look at the U.S from 250 years ago, weird huh?

UmbraVictor.9842:

The following are the reasons why I got onto Arena’s GW2 franchise for the first time.

1. http://youtu.be/35BPhT-KI1E —-— Fast forward to Minute 1.18

2. Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto —-- paragraph 5 & attached screen capture.

if it make you feel better, you can take solace in fact that Anet is really really sorry about the existence of that manifesto. And they are also sorry about the big pile of money they are making as well.

It is funny in a sad way how some people cling into something that has been proven over the past 2 years to be useless.

They said they will fix it, I believe for the big disappointing patch.

Why would you want celestial now? You should have waited until after the patch.

Not even cool, I want my survey adn free gems.

Heezdedjim.8902:

Aren’t they making some big change to how rank works soon anyway?

No. Supposedly they are just gonna keep it since ppl are attacted to ranks and go with ladder or something. But there is not ETA so expect it between now and infinity.

Romek.4201:

thats why i said FUN maps – nothing to have in any tournament
just hotjoin

and i dont think it would be hard to make 4-5 simple prototype maps and than just make something like SKINS with the theme per living story

i talk bout simple maps like warsong in wow
or just a deathmatch arena (why not themed like this liadri thing?^^)

What is fun? You can’t quantify fun. Apparently to Anet skyhammer is fun but to everyone else is sucks.

Also why would Anet waste the very few PvP resources on a map that HAS no chance of being usable in solo and tournament?

Just for the record, i am not against it. It is just like it seems you are not putting a lot of thought to the reason why Anet hasn’t done or attempted to do such a thing.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Its not that hard to balance a map.

Yes because you would know due to your years as a designer correct?

Let me guess you are one of those dilettantes that enjoy posing as that is an expert?

Actually, if you think that then you might be the problem.

If you actually paid attention to the patch notes you will see that the rewards are designed to prevent people from zerging, obviously given the fact you don’t know and are making this thread, I suspect less even know.

If you zerg, you wont get 1500 survivors and the rewards for 1500 survivors are significantly better than the zerging.

Anet cannot control human behavior, the only thing they can do is not reward zerging and they are not rewarding it any more. People are going to follow the commander because that is where people are more likely to be at, it sucks but as they say, “old habits die hard”.

Also this is the first week, it took a while for people to get acclimated with the marrioniette it will take a while for it to finally sink in that the best way to do the event is not to zerg.

Finally, I think the zerg is a side affect of everybody trying to get their achievements done first, but doing it properly afterwards, that is what i m doing anyways.

I want to add that the CDI is about FUTURE content. Most of this content have been designed months in advance. Again if you did not know that and why makes you think the majority would know that?

A lot of people are complaining about zerging but what they all seem to forget is the best rewards (chance to get a molten jetpack) cannot be received IF you blindly zerg. But people are going to zerg because people are used to zerging.

BUt the event rewards actually are design to punish zergers. But most of the players haven’t received the memo yet.

assuming I get my iron ore done today I should be 2 back pieces in a few hours as well. Thank 8 characters for farming dragon ore and emp crystal.

ADDED: Sorry for saying congratulations. So congratulations.

I feel like this is Anet’s way of punishing players that run only with zerker, but I will say that the AOE are so out of this world, the scaling is messed up.

Naetell.3815:

As soon as I saw this, I realised we’ve had it backwards the whole time. The problem isn’t that the PS is locked in time, the problem is that they never designed the game to support the Living World.
This is definitely going in my final review, even if it isn’t truly related to the story.

They absolutely need to overhaul the core instancing system, so that this kind of stuff doesn’t happen anymore.
The PS takes place one year ago, back when the map wasn’t invaded and Scarlet wasn’t even on anyone’s radar. The PS instance hence shouldn’t take place on the new LA map, but on the old one.
This patch has revealed a lot about how the game systems underneath work. It’s interesting, but it also shows how early small design decisions can really ruin your plans in the future.

It took you that long to figure out that the livingstory was designed AFTER the initial release of the game?

Anybody playing attention should know by now that the Anet is pretty much making up the livingstory mechanics or format as they go (not talking about the story itself but how it is presented). Since it is a new experience and we are simply along for the ride.

Savoy.6824:

So can we ever get a living story that does dynamically change based on player actions or lack there of. And no an election where we elect somebody and the only thing we get out of it is a different fractal doesnt count.

The reason you will never seen it in the near future is probably because it isn’t worth the effort. Anet will either have to make two paths or create the content fast enough to take into account player choices. Both of those are not really good options for Anet since very few players actually care about making a choice aka cost doesn’t justify it.

Maybe because PvE content is extremely easy to create? you don’t have to worry about much. PvEer will be happy with nearly any new map as long as it isn’t buggy, while a PvP map has to be balanced tested and there is a chance that even after being tested it will end up like skyhammer.

Then you got the other obvious part that the amount of PvPers that might care for such a thing is smaller than the already small extremely amount of players that do exclusively sPvP. Then you got the other part that they are far less developers for PvP than there are for PvE and the PvP devs already seem to be extremely overworked and are currently doing super secret stuff that will ultimately lead to a new set of QQs.

Since they are thinking of making PvP more related to PvE, i wonder why they did not border converting glory to karma. So that Glory is not totally useless for those tht can’t think of anything to do with it. still useless but less useless than having nothing.

sorudo.9054:

silvermember.8941:

Judge Banks.9018:

PSA Reminder In flat square mileage GW2 is Smaller than Vanilla WoW, Vanilla WoW is but a Grain of Sand in GW1.

Actually you are so wrong it is funny. The people that actualy care about this stuff
listed
vanilla WoW as 80 sq mi
guild wars 1 nightfall at 15k sq mi

Considering that guild wars 2 is bigger than all of guild wars 1. What you said is so ridiculous.

http://kotaku.com/5533787/its-not-the-size-of-the-game-world-but-how-you-use-it

actually, even with the Z , GW1 is still bigger then GW2.
you can only take half of EotN as Z, the rest is the same as proph.
so in a way GW2 is proph minus the fire isle, GW1 is still bigger.

Actually, according to colin. Guild wars 2 is bigger than all of guild wars 1. So I m going to take the word of colin over let’s say you.

Kreslin.6832:

My opinion, Anet have made a mistake, when they decided to make 5 playable races. Cause if there was the only human race as a playable, it would have been much easier. 5 races – quantity which didn’t bring a good quality, 1 playable race – simpler and easier work which could bring a good quality. Anet choose quantity, not quality. And if I’m remember correctly, they are gonna add new race in the future. Such news give me even more disappointment.

Amen.

multiple races good if you can dedicate resources to it. In this case, having too many non human races screwed up everything for everybody. Gw2 biggest flaw imo. Too many races.

Human and norn would have been fine since they are too similar physical wise.

I don’t know why. They should get rid of all the races or make them support races and keep humans as the only one.

It will improve story, armor, armor, armor, armor, armor, we can get favor of the gods, armor, prevent pvper from rolling asura, armor, armor, armor.

Judge Banks.9018:

PSA Reminder In flat square mileage GW2 is Smaller than Vanilla WoW, Vanilla WoW is but a Grain of Sand in GW1.

Actually you are so wrong it is funny. The people that actualy care about this stuff
listed
vanilla WoW as 80 sq mi
guild wars 1 nightfall at 15k sq mi

Considering that guild wars 2 is bigger than all of guild wars 1. What you said is so ridiculous.

http://kotaku.com/5533787/its-not-the-size-of-the-game-world-but-how-you-use-it

Tazgool.8904:

silvermember.8941:

The point being there is a lot of evidence that shows, making content that relies on players is a terrible idea. No MMORPG has been able to solved that problem, as of yet because it is extremely difficult without cutting player’s freedom and choice and that leads to another array of problem. Your WvW example shows a complete lack of understanding about the issue of what is going on.

All the evidence points to is that it hasn’t been done right yet. If you look at a failed execution as proof that the concept is flawed, well… Let’s just say that I’m glad you’re not in charge of designing anything. That’s just not how it works.

There are ways to solve problems without throwing up your hands and saying, “well, it doesn’t work, obviously the idea is stupid.” 3 way PvP has been proven to work in Dark Ages of Camelot, for example. So why doesn’t it work here?

I did not claim to be a designer. The only person here who is making that claim is YOU. You made the claim the moment you started claiming that their execution was flawed because that obviously mean you have a better solution. If it was as easy as you claim someone would have done it. It is just that simple.

I simply used facts to back up my claims unlike you that is blindly claiming you are somehow more knowledgeable than the 1000s of game developers that have worked on an MMORPG over the years.

Now Age of Camelot is a game of it time. From what I understand even it had issues as the results that I suspect you probably glossed over and from what I read it wasn’t as perfect as you claim. In any case, the market is a lot different than it was when DAoC, the players are a lot different (i am assuming you are talking about RvR). Don’t you find it strange that even the creator of DAoC could not replicate the game he himself made. Even still then that makes it PvP and I keep trying to remind you this topic is about PvE ( i think).

come up with facts to back up your claims. this isn’t politics.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

silvermember.8941:

The same reason why no company has ever done it, it is not easy or there isn’t an efficient way to do it. Finally, it would probably require too much scripting since AI isn’t at the point where it can do it.

The reality is this, I see gw 2 DE more as a stepping stone for future MMORPG to tackle. It is easy to criticize the inventor and praise the innovator. Just remember gw2 is not the last MMORPG that will be made, someone will come a long and outdo Anet vision for DE and we all win, unless you own NcSoft stock.

Your question isn’t a very good question since it depends on developers to answer and I don’t think any developer will answer since it serves no purpose.

It has been done. Even something as simple as the Luxon/Kurzick border in GW1 was dynamic. All of the player created factional bases/gcw in SWG was dynamic, as was the rise and fall of player cities. Control of territory in Eve is dynamic. Dynamic has been done. WvW here is dynamic. They haven’t successfully applied dynamics to what are, essentially, Kill 10 Rats repeatables.

Except the dynamic (KvsL) involved PLAYER and that dynamic fell apart the moment the players stopped partaking. Let’s not even bother considering the fact that a good percentage of player are truly against ANY FORM of PvP.

Let’s look at your WvW example. On certain servers WvW is not even functional because they are so few players. Everybody wants the easy win and so they go stack in T1. Now let’s look at T1. Most server do not even stand a chance against BG or JQ, they just streamrolled everybody. Yes, that is good dynamic content right?

The point being there is a lot of evidence that shows, making content that relies on players is a terrible idea. No MMORPG has been able to solved that problem, as of yet because it is extremely difficult without cutting player’s freedom and choice and that leads to another array of problem. Your WvW example shows a complete lack of understanding about the issue of what is going on.

All your suggestion completely undermines the Environment part of PvE. If you want player driven dynamic events go play PvP based game. I was talking about PvE. last I checked AI, scripting adn all those things were extremely expensive and you might not know this but cost is a factor on how and what to design.

BTW i like PvP, but this was about PvE.

Escadin.9482:

silvermember.8941:

There is a reason why MMORPG =/= RPG. If you hate grind don’t play an MMORPG.

MMORPG to me are inherently bad video games. The purpose of a video game is to have fun, the purpose of an MMORPG it to waste your time as much as possible in other to make you think you are having fun.

Ultimately, your definition of an MMORPG is irrelevant to anything. You can scream it all you want, but companies are catering to what they think is the majority of the market desire. So your opinion of the what constitutes an MMORPG doesn’t mean kitten, if you strongly feel that way make an MMORPG that suits that vision. Until then you will have to take whatever companies make and you can either play it or not.

Finally, it is always amusing seeing player idealize Everquest and see them bemoan how current MMORPG lack the soul of the EQ without ever trying to figure why that is. They complain how modern MMO don’t seem to capture EQ and blah blah blah. Let me tell you, the reason why no MMORPG can stand up to EQ is probably because people tend to idealize the past and they expect a other MMO to recapture an idealization (same reason why older folks love to idealize the 50s). Nothing will ever beat the first time you experience something you enjoy.

Yep that’s exactly my problem: Companies do not care about my personal opinion and why should they? I don’t denamd they do, I just wanted to write my frustation down for a change.
On the other hand I have see quite a few MMO games which come much closer to what MMORPGs should be. Yes some of them had VP too but it was a feature – not the point. And yet those game don’t seem to be a commercial fail. Indie projects occasionally proof that innovation can have marketing value and imo the biggest part of the current MMORPG audience is happy with what they have, but they wouldn’t cry if something fresh was created.
And yet Anet rather goes through the agony of balancing flawed gamemechanic ontop of flawed gamemechanics (called new feature), wastes ressources on content that doesn’t really matter/fit by design (turret and minions skills or stealth for example) and all the negative feedback from that smaller part of the community which cares about what they play, because they take it a bit more seriously.

All in all it just doesn’t seem impossible, hard or unprofitable to change the genre to me, which is what makes this stalemate so frustrating.

PS. Don’t get me wrong I don’t idealize EQ. I have never even played it but they say it’s origin of what most people call MMORPG today, and this genre simply never had any real innovation since birth, so EQ is also the first and last time innovation happened.

The problem you seem to have it, you are divorcing the money = from the design part.

Games are made to generate a lot of income especially games with AAA budgets. Indies can afford to go all crazy because they are not dealing 60+ million dollar budgets. So their threshold for profitability is extremely low compared to the bigger budget. The reason why most AAA video games seem safe when compared to indies is because they want to appeal to as many people as they can to recoup those high budgets. Indies can try all the risk because losing 10 mil is alot easier than losing 60 mil.

The lack of innovation in big budget projects is not exclusive to mmo, it is common in single player and it is common in terms of story, characterization and acting in most movies, compare a summer blockbuster to the usual movie that wins the oscar for best acting or actor aka a michael bay movie vs oscar nominated movie (not always though).

Personally, guild wars 2 has done a lot to move forward the genre forward but at the same time it took some of the trappings of the previous MMORPG. I don’t like VP but I am not going to pretend I don’t understand why they did it. I was in orr within the first 2 weeks of it release and the biggest complaints after people cheated their way to get full orr within 3 days was “where is the end game?” I got full crafted exotics 7 days after after hitting 80. I don’t think Anet decided to screw over players just for kitten and giggles.

finally, my EQ point was just me saying what I think about the people who love to claim EQ was the best thing ever, you just gave me the chance. They keep confusing nostalgia with reality

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Swoo.5079:

GW2 is way bigger than Prophecies was at release.

Interestingly people like to throw around tons of numbers
Those are called facts, it’s what people tend to use in arguments
but they don’t like to throw number of professions and number of races.
gw1 had more professions… not at release no, but gw2 is not at release, it’s been out for over a year
They also don’t like to talk about crafting.
Because it’s boring as kitten
GW1 added very few in terms of free content.
And that’s why the content added in gw1 vastly superior. Free =/= better
People just don’t understand that GW1 basically had a tiny Live Team while GW2 has a decently sized live team.
Indeed, gw2 has a lot more developers working on it. So why are we getting less?

Guild Wars 2 at release has indeed more content than Guild Wars 1 at release. But in the end, gw1 got tons more content and guild wars 2 is not at release anymore.

Guild wars 2 was bigger than guild wars 1 after all it’s updates.

You are comparing GW2 to GW Prophecies right? I would hope so.

Guild wars 2 to all of gw1.

LOL, you’re funny. I’ve been having a crappy day at work. I needed that.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I played GW1 for 4000 hours, and didn’t do everything there was to do. It has at least twice the amount of content that GW2 has at present. Tyria+EotN expansion areas, Elona, Cantha. As I said…

You’re a funny guy, Sully.

You are right, guild wars 2 at release guild wars 2 was only bigger than phophecies + 1 stand alone. so they got only 5 more years to get more “content” than gw 1.

That’s all we want. And I’d say GW2 at present(not at release) has more content than GW Prophecies + about half of Factions. But we can argue this all day…. I hope GW2’s content ends up more than doubling that of GW1 in the long run.

Actually, i was right. Colin before release said guild wars 2 at release was bigger than ALL of guild wars 1.

So there. Read above for the link and proof.

Nice try though.

I remember seeing that quote. It’s all in the marketing. Of course they would say something like that, while using wording like “about the size”. They want everyone to think it IS more massive. So GW fanboys (like myself) and newcomers alike will be drooling… “Just as big as ALL of Guild Wars??? faints”

I’ve played through both games and that’s complete BS. GW2 is a large game, and it’s a game that I like a lot. (although it could be improved tenfold) I can honestly say though, that right now, it does not have the amount that GW1 had. It just doesn’t. That’s all delusional marketing that worked on me and many others.

I see, so when it suits your purpose fact is fact, but when it goes against your belief it is marketing.

I want to say I am sorry for backing up my claims with facts. I keep forgetting that certain people once they made up their minds it cannot be changed and facts be kitten ed.

By any chance do you subscribe the Fox News?

ADDED: anyways, i m going to peace out here because we can both agree arguing on this forum is a bigger waste of time than doing absolutely nothing.

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Nat.4029:

silvermember.8941:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Swoo.5079:

GW2 is way bigger than Prophecies was at release.

Interestingly people like to throw around tons of numbers
Those are called facts, it’s what people tend to use in arguments
but they don’t like to throw number of professions and number of races.
gw1 had more professions… not at release no, but gw2 is not at release, it’s been out for over a year
They also don’t like to talk about crafting.
Because it’s boring as kitten
GW1 added very few in terms of free content.
And that’s why the content added in gw1 vastly superior. Free =/= better
People just don’t understand that GW1 basically had a tiny Live Team while GW2 has a decently sized live team.
Indeed, gw2 has a lot more developers working on it. So why are we getting less?

Guild Wars 2 at release has indeed more content than Guild Wars 1 at release. But in the end, gw1 got tons more content and guild wars 2 is not at release anymore.

Guild wars 2 was bigger than guild wars 1 after all it’s updates.

You are comparing GW2 to GW Prophecies right? I would hope so.

Guild wars 2 to all of gw1.

LOL, you’re funny. I’ve been having a crappy day at work. I needed that.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I played GW1 for 4000 hours, and didn’t do everything there was to do. It has at least twice the amount of content that GW2 has at present. Tyria+EotN expansion areas, Elona, Cantha. As I said…

You’re a funny guy, Sully.

You are right, guild wars 2 at release guild wars 2 was only bigger than phophecies + 1 stand alone. so they got only 5 more years to get more “content” than gw 1.

That’s all we want. And I’d say GW2 at present(not at release) has more content than GW Prophecies + about half of Factions. But we can argue this all day…. I hope GW2’s content ends up more than doubling that of GW1 in the long run.

Actually, i was right. Colin before release said guild wars 2 at release was bigger than ALL of guild wars 1.

So there. Read above for the link and proof.

Nice try though.