Well of power is good for skipping. I tend to take spectral walk, well of power, locust signet and plague form. Shouldnt really need any of them except spectral if your careful. Also if you’ve been hit and are in combat, you may aswell dark path + doom a mob in front of you. It increases the gap from the mobs behind you and cc’s the mob you teleported to so its not hard to escape him aswell.
Then ofc, longer fights = larger window for mobs hitting you, added to the defensive stat not being able to actually mitigate dmg effectively = risk. Which with some dodging and active defense, makes glass cannons the best route. Not arguing about this.
But DPS just makes things easier or faster.
You just contradicted yourself. Opposite of easier is harder.
Anyway as much as the tactics in efficient dungeon running are pretty much the same for each encounter they are not as boring as sitting at max range pew pewing for half an hour. Id rather be actively dodging and spamming blinds to help my group a survive a los pull while we burn it down than sitting faceroll ranging.
Also a thing to note, some los pulls go very badly with low dps groups or if a high dps group fails to properly cc or blind spam. Wouldnt say thats boring. Boring is sitting at the back auto attacking with no danger, I dont want to play afk wrongbow bear ranger. I want to get stuck in and be useful while doing damage. It also takes experience/skill to read the tells and dodge perfectly consistantly in some fights. Face tanking instead of dodging is boring ;p.
Thats not true. Dodge only takes 0.75 seconds and that doesnt cut the dps in half unless your dodging very frequently. Which you shouldnt be and dont think you even can dodge that often on any class lol. Anyway you calculate the theoretical max dps the rotation can output. Obviously their are too many variables for it to always be that high but saying it can only be half is wrong.
Im sure i dont need to tell you how innaccurate that method of calculating dps is. The only thing needed to test in game is the after casts and time for a full auto rotation. The rest is done with weapon and skill coefficients and damage formulae to calculate the damage of the full rotation, including cooldowns and then divided to find the average dps over a sustain period. It shifts massively higher when your wells are down but over a sustained period the dps increase is less.
OR you actually go in game, get a stopwatch (be it on comp or irl) and time the attacks to then check the combat log, youll never get a steady 6k dps (obviouly with the exception of the example given to kill white rabbits that have like negative 1k armor)
I just looked at my vet giant kill vid. Its over 6k dps and thats not even fully buffed up….
Thats not true. Dodge only takes 0.75 seconds and that doesnt cut the dps in half unless your dodging very frequently. Which you shouldnt be and dont think you even can dodge that often on any class lol. Anyway you calculate the theoretical max dps the rotation can output. Obviously their are too many variables for it to always be that high but saying it can only be half is wrong.
Im sure i dont need to tell you how innaccurate that method of calculating dps is. The only thing needed to test in game is the after casts and time for a full auto rotation. The rest is done with weapon and skill coefficients and damage formulae to calculate the damage of the full rotation, including cooldowns and then divided to find the average dps over a sustain period. It shifts massively higher when your wells are down but over a sustained period the dps increase is less.
Can swap out BiP for Well of Corruption if your group is giving you max might. Or you can swap it for a situational utility. Flesh golem is probably the elite you want most of the time. Lich is less dps than dagger but good for fights like the dredge power suit in fractals.
Ill just quote the rotation from the other thread i posted it in.
“The rotation is basically to keep locust swarm up and flash DS on cooldown for fury and weakening shroud. The rest of the time its just dagger auto attack, but you treat it like warrior axe due to the huge damage of the final strike. You either cast the wells at the start or save them for below 50% so they benefit from close to death. Im not sure whether focus 4 is a dps loss or not. But you can cast that for extra vuln, on a single target it works out as pretty much permanent 12 stacks of vuln as long as you use it on cooldown.”
I think the point is that Brutaly DOES know his Guardian gameplay. Maybe you don’t agree with him but if you take the time to peruse his posts and are an intelligent individual, you will realize that his information is given with authority, with sound assessment and well spoken. He at least deserves a greater respect than to be insulted by Guardian forum tourists telling him he doesn’t know.
OK, enough kissing kitten. Bottom line … there are a handful of individuals here that shouldn’t be immediately dismissed when they have an opinion on something. If your going to disagree, you better have a comparable depth of knowledgeable, have some context to frame your opinion … or be extremely obtuse.
I never said he doesnt know his stuff. But claiming his opinions are more valid than mine is completely ignorant. He said in another thread hes no pve pro, so maybe you guys should pay a little more respect to those of us who do know our dungeon stuff. The same stuff goes on on the necro forums. One player is highly respected by the average necro player because he does loads of theory crafting and build videos, everyone jumps to support him and back him up even when hes not right. They dont look at it objectively, they just follow like sheep.
Also, LAWL at people telling Brutaly he doesn’t have any idea.
There are a WHOLE lot of new people on our Guardian forums who really just don’t have a clue.
LOL at people thinking being known means they are always right. I dont know who he is or you for that matter. But im guessing WvW players? If so, you cant really claim to be experts on dungeons or PvE.
Psst… take a look at the Sticky’s…
It helps to be informed about the people you’re making comments about.
Why? If i think your wrong im not going to change my opinion just because your known by casuals. What makes you think you know better than me?
Theory crafting is nice…in theory. On paper maybe 11k DPS is possible; in practice it doesn’t work that way. Throw in blink, block, daze, disengaging, dodge, evade, invulnerability, knockback, knockdown, launch, misses, obstructions, out-of-range, positioning, push, pull, skill cool downs, stun, teleports, and weakness and nobody is doing 330k damage in 10 seconds unless it’s to innocent bunny rabbits in the forest. If this were true, the meta would be considerably different than it is in reality.
I settled on what is – in practice – a reasonable expectation of damage output given all the factors I listed above. Furthermore, it isn’t a skill description written in stone. The values are open to tweaking; it’s a suggestion, a prototype. If, indeed, the initial numbers I used prove OP, then tune them until they aren’t OP. Even if my original estimates of DPS prove too low, the estimate of 330K damage in 10 seconds is equally too high.
A fully buffed dps build produces that number. Your suggested value for damage implies you do 2k dps which is less than what any class achieves naked. My point was, with a skilled dps group, the healing is gonna be ridiculous even if half the team decides to go afk. But obviously you could tweak the maths to be more inline with expected dps so its not op. Id rather the healing was applied to the group aswell. Because the main reason necro’s are the only class that dont have a role in speed clears is because they are purely selfish (no buffs and the debuffs can be done better by other classes).
You should have less crit damage but more condi damage and power when using rampager, and beserker trinkets. Thats a fair trade as 8% crit damage isnt much.
I wouldn’t call them Auras or Desecrations. The first is something others have, and we’re special dangit! And the second sounds too similar to Corruption. Just call them Orders, as that is what they were (in effect) back in GW1.
Theres no such thing as too much crit chance though. Obviously you want as much other offensive stats as you can get. But if you have to take extra precision to get that maximum power, crit dmg and condi dmg its really not something to worry about. Just means you can avoid precision based foods and your not as reliant on fury/spotter/banner of discipline.
Id assume for the extra crit damage. But I still wouldnt take celestial. Mix of rampager and beserker trinkets would be better imo. Or even a mix of rabid and beserker.
Naming them desecrations just makes me think of wells. Just call them aura’s. If we were to get aura’s I would want them to have the same duration as their cooldown. Just like ele conjured weapons. Or maybe slightly less duration than cooldown.
So lasts 40 seconds and has a cooldown of 45. The idea of aura’s has already been mentioned by me and a few others in other threads. You could get group damage boosts, group life steal, group condi’s on crit and so on.
Your suggestion for a descration in the other thread is another selfish utility. We need more group stuff to become viable. Also the example you gave is op. 20k damage to 5 mobs in 10 seconds (so 100k damage) is very low dps. All classes can achieve about 11k dps on single targets, thats about 33k dps assuming cleave(so 330k damage in 10 seconds for one player), which amounts to about 1650k damage in 10 seconds. The healing would be overkill. If you only count single target damage it would still be 550k damage in 10 seconds, which results in 55k healing lol.
Also, LAWL at people telling Brutaly he doesn’t have any idea.
There are a WHOLE lot of new people on our Guardian forums who really just don’t have a clue.
LOL at people thinking being known means they are always right. I dont know who he is or you for that matter. But im guessing WvW players? If so, you cant really claim to be experts on dungeons or PvE.
People still use vent? :o Thats like using TS2 lol ;D
TS3 is really good. Mumble is really low latency and high quality, just a pretty poor interface. Raidcall I havent used much, seems fairly decent though.
EM isnt that great but its not terrible either. Every encounter in organised groups involves stacking up pretty tightly (except legendary imbued shaman). If your going into honor for pure of voice then you may aswell take EM aswell. I would never go into honor just for EM though.
Then in theory it’d probably be 5 ele’s in perfect sync with various field + blast and leap combos providing the maxed might stacks and 5 FGS extreme damage while cycling elements for permanent protection/healing. In theory of course.
Your missing out on banners with that comp. Thats quite a big difference.
It would probably contain warrior + ranger for banners and frost spirit. Im guessing some LH eles on top of that, maybe a thief and probably an engi for vuln and might. You dont actually need mesmers or guardians. They just contribute to comfort really.
Its not an issue of everyone doing things better, its an issue of ANet made terrible mechanics for DPS Races 2, and seem to refuse to admit that their content is so badly designed that it blatantly favors three classes over all others.
Your a bit behind with that statement. In the last few months its been proved that some classes are way above the old trinity and that all classes are very strong picks when built right. The only exception is necro because theres nothing special that they can bring thats useful in dungeons. The dps on my zerker build is up there with all the other classes, its just not worth taking over another class that can do the same or better damage while contributing to buffs or better utility. At the moment necro only has access to high cooldown condi removal and blind fields and moderate cooldown boon removal. The only time i would consider a necro is to replace the mesmer when you dont need feedback and theres a few boon fights to deal with. You also have to consider whether the group can maintain 25 stacks of might while the necro doesnt even carry any blast finishers.
But its harder to complete dungeons with low dps. I think its pretty safe to assume most people would agree with effective = fast in this situation. Even people who dont build that way.
Sword #3 doesn’t immediately cancel the autoattack chain. Does dagger #4?
And yeah, biggest problem are going to be locusts. If it’s only one or two spawning i don’t see big problems killing them and outheal (ranger heal is really really strong plus gaining protection from dodges is quite nice) but if it’s 3 or even 4 i honestly don’t know how to get rid of them before new one’s spawn.
Range it because you are playing a ranger! Meleeing is for bad players who dont know how ranger works!
Not sure how your getting dps that low for wells. My well of suffering crits for about 2.5k 6 times on a 35 second cooldown without being buffed up. Assuming it consistantly crits and achieves that damage per tick 2.5k*6=15k. 15k/35 = 429dps. If it doesnt crit and does 1k per tick its 171dps. Obviously the numbers would be a bit lower due to cast time, after cast and a split second out of the auto attack, but not that much lower. But we all know fights rarely last long enough for you to consider it like that, so in many fights you will be doing better dps.
Are wells affected by crits and power? I just sort of assumed they weren’t. If they are Suffering would be worth about 450 DPS and Corruption would be about 100.
That would put you at about 11k even with Signet of Spite, Shadow Fiend, Golem, Blood Fiend, and Well of Suffering, with about 1k of that coming from minions. That still puts them basically even with guardians (which is pretty good, to be fair) but with all of the aforementioned shortcomings.
Yep they are affected by power and crits. Which is why they are so popular.
From what i can tell necro’s single target dps isn’t really bad. Seems to be a bit stronger than ranger’s dps with a bear as pet. It doesn’t provide any group buffs though and completely leeches of the team, a thief for example who also relies on team buffs at least deals noticable more damage and at least provides stealth, blind field, stuns and has a good movement speed for different situations. Necros can blind enemies or stack vuln but nothing that can’t be done better by other professions. Conclusion: necro’s aren’t worth taking them, just as rangers aren’t for Arah or Mesmers aren’t for AC. The difference is that i don’t know any dungeon where choosing a necro would be a good choice.
A dungeon where you need boon removal and blind fields maybe. Id also say necro is probably a good choice for the dredge fractal, aoe chill and weakness + boon removal surely makes killing dredge easier. Although the dredge are immune to blind, the chill on blind trait still works. Just like guards vuln on blind. But yeah, i agree and thats why I dont use mine much anymore. If the damage was much better then id consider taking the necro more.
The bigger question is wether the new character will progress in their personal level? I would assume not and thakittens connected to the end of the boss (ie spawn of final chest).
Because what else would be the point? Loot and rewards are per account anyway so the only reason todo this is to run the frac on the main but make sure the alt gets the progression.
Unless your main with a high PRL is a less than perfect class to do the fractal with.
We tried (unsuccessfully) to 3-man the lasers the other day. I dropped the entry portal by one console, then hit the pair of adjacent consoles. Other two members hit the two consoles by the waypoint after I started. I dropped the exit portal while channeling, then as soon as the first channel is done (4 seconds) hit f twice to teleport and start channeling the other console. It seemed like it almost worked but we weren’t able to pull it off.
Id imagine it works better with blink. Pressing f to portal could cause it to cancel the first consoles.
Not sure how your getting dps that low for wells. My well of suffering crits for about 2.5k 6 times on a 35 second cooldown without being buffed up. Assuming it consistantly crits and achieves that damage per tick 2.5k*6=15k. 15k/35 = 429dps. If it doesnt crit and does 1k per tick its 171dps. Obviously the numbers would be a bit lower due to cast time, after cast and a split second out of the auto attack, but not that much lower. But we all know fights rarely last long enough for you to consider it like that, so in many fights you will be doing better dps.
I would consider 30/30/0/0/10 if there was another useful trait in curses. But i prefer the extra crit damage and last gasp is a really good minor for survivability.
The rotation is basically to keep locust swarm up and flash DS on cooldown for fury and weakening shroud. The rest of the time its just dagger auto attack, but you treat it like warrior axe due to the huge damage of the final strike. You either cast the wells at the start or save them for below 50%. Im not sure whether focus 4 is a dps loss or not. But you can cast that for extra vuln, on a single target it works out as pretty much permanent 12 stacks of vuln as long as you use it on cooldown.
10/30/0/30/0? Wtf Ive never seen such an awful build for dps, your missing out on close to death, 200 power and atleast 15% crit damage. Yea necro doesnt contribute to group might and buffs, so its a relatively selfish class. The dark fields and blinds can come in handy though.
The two main dps builds are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/10/0/0/30.
If your saying that 10/30 is out dpsing a guardian then surely my build is out dpsing it by a country mile.
If your fully buffed up you can take 2 damaging wells for strong aoe. Combine that with DS aoe and locust swarm and its not bad for burst aoe. You always run Well of suffering in a power build. Signet of spite helps boost the dps a bit more. 3rd slot is either well of corruption, BiP for selfish might or some utility (WoD or WoP). Can also take the piercing life blasts in Soul reaping, it sort of cleaves, its just a slow attack.
There’s like 4 DPS traits that matter for the necro: Close to Death, the 25 minor in the precision line, the 25 minor in the boon duration line, and the 5% over 50% life force. Last time I ran the numbers, 9k was the highest I got. I think it was either 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30, I don’t remember which exactly. 10/25/0/0/15 MAY give comparable DPS, I doubt it’s going to be much higher overall. 30/10/0/0/30 won’t give crap.
Also, wells contribute very little overall DPS due to their long CD. In terms of sustained DPS, minions are better, provided they don’t die. If they do die, well, you’re out of luck, because wells aren’t very good except as an initial burst.
The 5% over 50% life force is bugged or a tooltip failure. Its actually a flat 90 power when over 50% lifeforce. Makes it even more worthless. I dont see how any build with only 10 in spite can be considered good dps on a necro. The minors are awful but close to death is just a must have. I mean i even tried 10/30/0/0/30 at one point, it was weak. The lack of power was quite a big difference and close to death is so strong especially when you save your wells for when the target is below 50%. Not to mention the bugged stength of undeath means theres no reason to go that far into soul reaping. Wells got a slight cd reduction a few patches ago, they still remain as high cd burst skills but they can crit pretty hard so id always run them over minions (Due to minion reliability) and most fights rarely last that long anyway.
Well if Strength of Undeath is bugged then that one is out of the question. You’d be running either 30/25/0/0/15 or 10/30/0/30/0 then.
The thing about Close to Death is that while it’s a 20% buff, it’s only active half the time, so it’s effectively only a 10% DPS boost. If you absolutely had to pick between that or Target the Weak, the latter is better.
Yeah but you can have both which is better than having target the weak and a 5% boost. So i think its pretty much a given that 30/25/0/0/15 is the best for it. Allows you to take focus and warhorn cooldown traits aswell. I would consider 30/30/0/0/10 if there was another useful trait in curses. But i prefer the extra crit damage and last gasp is a really good minor for survivability.
10/30/0/30/0? Wtf Ive never seen such an awful build for dps, your missing out on close to death, 200 power and atleast 15% crit damage. Yea necro doesnt contribute to group might and buffs, so its a relatively selfish class. The dark fields and blinds can come in handy though.
The two main dps builds are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/10/0/0/30.
If your saying that 10/30 is out dpsing a guardian then surely my build is out dpsing it by a country mile.
If your fully buffed up you can take 2 damaging wells for strong aoe. Combine that with DS aoe and locust swarm and its not bad for burst aoe. You always run Well of suffering in a power build. Signet of spite helps boost the dps a bit more. 3rd slot is either well of corruption, BiP for selfish might or some utility (WoD or WoP). Can also take the piercing life blasts in Soul reaping, it sort of cleaves, its just a slow attack.
There’s like 4 DPS traits that matter for the necro: Close to Death, the 25 minor in the precision line, the 25 minor in the boon duration line, and the 5% over 50% life force. Last time I ran the numbers, 9k was the highest I got. I think it was either 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/0/0/30, I don’t remember which exactly. 10/25/0/0/15 MAY give comparable DPS, I doubt it’s going to be much higher overall. 30/10/0/0/30 won’t give crap.
Also, wells contribute very little overall DPS due to their long CD. In terms of sustained DPS, minions are better, provided they don’t die. If they do die, well, you’re out of luck, because wells aren’t very good except as an initial burst.
The 5% over 50% life force is bugged or a tooltip failure. Its actually a flat 90 power when over 50% lifeforce. Makes it even more worthless. I dont see how any build with only 10 in spite can be considered good dps on a necro. The minors are awful but close to death is just a must have. I mean i even tried 10/30/0/0/30 at one point, it was weak. The lack of power was quite a big difference and close to death is so strong especially when you save your wells for when the target is below 50%. Not to mention the bugged stength of undeath means theres no reason to go that far into soul reaping. Wells got a slight cd reduction a few patches ago, they still remain as high cd burst skills but they can crit pretty hard so id always run them over minions (Due to minion reliability) and most fights rarely last that long anyway.
For whakittens worth, I’ve run my Necro a lot in dungeons like CoE where single target is all that matters. The personal DPS seems fine but the lack of team buffs basically makes them worthless. All they can sell is Vuln stacking which an engineer does fantastically better.
True but if it turns out they have better dps than other classes when buffed, they could become a strong pick for that extra dps slot. Providing your team already has the required buffs. I stopped using my necro in dungeons a long time ago. But id love it for them to become more widely accepted as a good pick, not just a viable pick. Necro is the class i have the most fun playing, but im not willing to take it into dungeons if i can take something better, i hate being selfish.
Honestly I dont really know, i dont play ele or thief, but i felt like i was doing more damage than the warrior when running coe the other day. That could of just been the fast auto attack though. I calculated some dps the other week and necro with 3 conditions seems to be just behind warrior axe auto dps. More conditions would boost that and I didnt factor in well damage.
Id probably take it instead of stacking extra warriors, or replace a thief when theres no need for stealth and theres more trash to deal with. But you would have to make sure the group can keep it fully buffed. If you dont want a mesmer in coe because of their dps a necro can actually be a fairly decent alternative for the boon removal on the golem. Plus the aoe destroys the golems in the laser room insanely fast.
But id rather someone with more experience in calculating dps could prove if my build out dps’s other classes.
10/30/0/30/0? Wtf Ive never seen such an awful build for dps, your missing out on close to death, 200 power and atleast 15% crit damage. Yea necro doesnt contribute to group might and buffs, so its a relatively selfish class. The dark fields and blinds can come in handy though.
The two main dps builds are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/10/0/0/30.
If your saying that 10/30 is out dpsing a guardian then surely my build is out dpsing it by a country mile.
If your fully buffed up you can take 2 damaging wells for strong aoe. Combine that with DS aoe and locust swarm and its not bad for burst aoe. You always run Well of suffering in a power build. Signet of spite helps boost the dps a bit more. 3rd slot is either well of corruption, BiP for selfish might or some utility (WoD or WoP). Can also take the piercing life blasts in Soul reaping, it sort of cleaves, its just a slow attack.
Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).
That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.
Oh please….
I probably should of said except on a few select abilties. Still, its a terrible stat for pve.
Clearly you need a lesson in Reading Comprehension.
You stated healing power Scales Horribly…. I disagreed.
Then you say, except on a few select abilities… I still disagree…
Then you state its terrible stat for PvE… I agreed.
…… I fixed your comment by putting context to it …….
Healing Power is a horrible stat for PvE ~ONLY~ because it’s not needed in PVE… which is where I agree w/ you. However, this thread isn’t just about PVE (though that is the majority of debate going on)…. IE OP’s Title.
If you’re going to start tellin people just how wrong they are, please do try to keep up.
Why dont you try to structure your posts a bit better then.
Healing power scaling is terrible. But that doesnt mean that you dont need it for some builds in spvp and WvW. You knew I was talking about pve so why pick holes? No need to be so pedantic about my comment. I was stating an opinion and you seem to have a problem with that.
You made a blanket statement about a stat, for which I wholeheartedly disagree.
I put your statement into Context.
You edited my post and said that my quote of “healing power is a terrible stat” is a fact. I think I just lost braincells trying to work out how you thought that was disagreeing with me.
Healing power scales really badly (except on necro well of blood).
That quote right there shows just how LITTLE you understand.
I probably should of said its a terrible stat for pve.
I fixed your statement for you, just so you know the only fact in it.
Wait, your agreeing with me and then saying I dont understand? What? It is a terrible stat but that doesnt change the fact that it actually makes certain abilities heal for alot. I would never support a build doing that, but it doesnt change that it can.
They may be doing it as an account bound bday. Which would make sense as its not a random mini for each character.
@OP
I wouldnt worry about not being online on the day, you should still get the gift when you next log on. In GW1 you simply typed /gift in chat and it would give all bday presents you hadnt opened yet (I stopped playing for 3 years, came back and had 2-3 gifts on each character waiting for me).
