well, fractals teached me how & to dodge, im 45+ on my thief. and in lupi on my guard i dodge nonstop having vigor all the time, my necro is lv kitten… but i just cant imagine HOW ill be able to hand lupi in the fight without having nothing there dying for getting LF (of couse lf when a mate dies but… -.- im not that emo), Can DS aborb the damage of the green buble that doesnt let you dodge over it?
The dome use to drain your lifeforce really fast and kill you. So fast that you were lucky if you could cast a dark path to teleport out. It might be a bit easier to tank the damage in DS now though.
No i havent yet. I havent found the time or the patience to solo a path all the way up to him yet. But ive already planned builds and utilities for the fight. Id also quite like to sort out recording before i do attempt it properly.
CoE at times its impossible to dodge every alpha aoe with a necro unless you have a sigil of energy. The lack of dodges is also a huge disadvantage for lupi aswell. Meleeing lupi with a necro with no vigor and no energy sigils is madness. I really dont think we should be that dependant on sigils, especially as we dont have any form of proper damage avoidance.
Eh, Lupi isn’t that bad if you’re on the ball about dodging (I don’t run Sigils of Energy), but I agree that the Necro has a rougher time dealing with him than most professions. You don’t NEED Sigils of Energy, but they would probably make him much easier.
I havent actually tried meleeing lupi in phase 1 with necro. That was what i was basing my need for sigils on. Dodging the grubs and the kicks could be a problem. Also phase 3. Having limited dodges could be a problem when you have to double dodge out of the aoe life drain or the single target life drain and then dodge the projectile aoe. Phase 2 is easy, i know that (dark path dodge).
PvE, apart from maybe high level fractals that i don’t even see a reason to do, is very much faceroll on any class…speedruns aren’t required to do anything.
/edit: But i’m okay if they buff necros into oblivion if it’s only for PvE (this excludes WvW obviously).
CoE at times its impossible to dodge every alpha aoe with a necro unless you have a sigil of energy. The lack of dodges is also a huge disadvantage for lupi aswell. Meleeing lupi with a necro with no vigor and no energy sigils is madness. I really dont think we should be that dependant on sigils, especially as we dont have any form of proper damage avoidance.
@spoj: I currently don’t have a source but i’m sure ArenaNet stated somewhere that they don’t want the necro to have (easy) access to vigor. Deathshroud and Spectral skills are actually really good for defensive purposes. Other classes, like thieves, mesmers and eles are much squishier than necros and need the dodges to survive.
All classes need to dodge to survive in PvE though. Its a massive oversight on the devs part.
That’s actually disturbing. I run with 2 warriors and they get all loot while we get tiny fractions of that. For example, where warriors get 1 exotic, handful of lodestones and 7-8 rares, non-warrior party members get 4-5 rares on the lucky day.
Meh I was playing scumbag low dps mesmer in coe yesterday and getting all the cores and lodestones.
I know this is the Necro thread, but since you mentioned that all classes should be built around damage for dungeons.. I’m wondering if this is true for Guardian as well? I read that Guardians tend to have substandard DPS (just in general, maybe I’m wrong) and tend to be brought for their boons/utility. So.. should guardians lay down their stakitten and pick up more DPS oriented builds/weapons?
Yep. I run a beserker guard in dungeons and fractals with no real issues. My damage isnt as high as a warrior or thief. But I make up for it with aegis, stability, condi cleanse and reflect. You dont take guardians for pure dps but they can still do some nice damage. For comfortable runs in CoE you take a dps guardian even though its not needed. Simply because they provide really good damage (although not the highest) and have lots of useful party defense/utility.
A good dps guardian is a lot more useful than a clerics guardian. I use to run a knights AH anchor build when i first got my guard to 80, but that build was basically just my training wheels. Only time i ever use that gear now is for kiting the dredge in the dredge fractal, but after the door is open I switch back to zerk for clearing the dredge and the rest of the fractal. My traits have remained in my DPS spec since i got my beserker gear.
For a dps guardian sword auto is the best sustained dps. So I run sword focus and GS for burst then swap weapons accordingly for the situation. Hammer for fights with lots of auto attacks where protection will be good for the group. Scepter for when I need to range. Staff for when I need to run/skip/kite trash. Never use mace, its terrible for PvE. Shield is pretty good for Lupi’s aoe, if you time it right its a full party block.
yeh i know that build, its cool but (while never used it) i think you may someday need a lil survivality (DS)
I use to run 30 pts in SR. Stopped a while back. The stability in DS is really helpful. But i no longer find I needed it. I know dungeons well enough to not rely on the safety of DS. I still have 15 points in SR so I still get last gasp which is nice. Although if I ever get round to soloing lupi on necro. I probably will go back to 30/10/0/0/30 for that fight.
From what leman said on the necro forums. I gathered he was running a hybrid necro. Decent direct damage and much better sustained aoe with conditions.
Back on topic. I like the suggestion of an aura on lichform. But I dont think it should stack. Rangers frost spirit doesnt stack and thats on average 7% dmg boost when traited. I dont think it should be encouraged to take more than 1 of any class. So just having a flat 10-15% damage boost in lich form would be enough to make them a solid pick for speed runs.
However with the devs intending to release new utilities and traits in the future for all classes. Id much rather see this damage boost aura implemented in a new utility skill type. Along with other aura’s which provide utility like condition removal on crit, life steal on crit, or X% chance to apply X condition on hit. You get the idea, a moderate to low cooldown, high duration unique buff which applies to all party members within range of the necromancer.
sometimes you cant be 100% in melee, 50% crit chance + fury isnt 100% crit chance, 50% crit chance +DS =100%, wells on ds = 100% crit chance too
You can be 100% in melee for cof though and any other dungeon aswell for that matter. Its faceroll. My necro build is slightly more effective power than the DS build and I have 55% crit chance. Fury brings that up to 75%. Banner of discipline brings that up to 83%. Even with 100% crit chance you dont always crit, theres a cap. But in a short duration fight, 83% crit chance is close enough to 100% crit chance anyway. So deathly perception, although good, isnt needed. If 83% isnt enough you can always take precision food to boost it a bit more anyway.
The last patch made all drop down spider spawns pre spawned in all dungeons. Hope anet fix this next patch. That doesnt apply to final bosses of TA though as they are triggered by other means.
he doesnt need fury while in ds.. but the 15% crit damage sounds sweet XD
Dagger auto is more dps than DS so having fury to use dagger would cut the time down. Banner of discipline and banner of strength are incredibly important.
I want to see lightning hammer eles and rangers and thieves meleeing these. See how simple it is without guardians when you don’t have the buffer of armor and hp to tank hits that take over half your health.
That’s what we do! 2 warriors/necro/2 eles.
Please record it next time you do it. I would love to see how you do it.
Dont see why it should be though. Pretty sure it works on the colossus in the jade fractal and they reflect projectiles.
It works if you are a masochist.
Thats weird because i almost always use sword and i dont remember killing myself with it lol. Maybe I was using GS on them and sword on the tentacles. I guess Ill pay more attention next time lol.
You should never build fully around support with any class…
That’s the mentality I’m trying to explore. Why not?
It seems to vary more on a class-by-class basis. From what I can tell, full support builds are fine for WvW, decent for PvE and noottt so much for sPvP. But even then it depends on your definition of support and what you’re bringing to the table.
Support is fine for WvW. But PvE is designed around not having a trinity. Every stat combo has either power or condition damage on it. This means no matter what you are doing in PvE you should be doing damage. The way the current game runs in dungeons is that it is actually harder to complete content with low dps groups because face tanking and healing wont save you from boss attacks, only dodges and blocks will. You dont need to build around support to use blocks, blinds and dodges. The faster things die the less attacks you have to avoid/negate.
Tanky gear is only there for WvW and PvP imo. Its also ok for people learning mechanics, but they should all have the intention of switching to more dps orientated gear eventually. Theres no tanking in this game and if you do take tanky gear you get slightly more aggro and therefore it actually means you will have a harder time surviving than someone in beserker with good dodges.
I have been running Rabid gear now (Precision, Toughness and Condition Damage, right?) and I feel way too squishy against some bosses and often get aggro, the one heal I have doesn’t feel like enough. I go with 30/30/0/0/10. I use scepter/dagger and axe/warhorn which is fun. I’d maybe like a build built around death shroud a bit more. Also, the Blood Magic tree looks fun (I’d love to be stealing life), but does it lack damage? And is a summoner based build still worthless in PvE?
Taking survivability stats will get you aggro and more likely to be killed. Do more damage > kills mobs faster > less threat for whole team. Plus you dont keep aggro as much anymore. So take beserker or rampager gear. Beserker for a power build, rampager for a hybrid build.
Use staff for skipping through trash or at the beginning of the fight for warding and empower. When you dont need it take sword focus and GS. sword auto attack is the best dps you can do. GS just has nice burst dps. Hammer should only really be used in select situations when you need to absorb lots of auto attacks. And when supporting with a guardian take either beserker or knights gear. Anything else is just the sign of a bad/inexperienced player. The best support in the game is providing good dps and with a guardian you do that while blocking key attacks with aegis, condition cleansing and reflecting projectiles. Along with other boons and amazing buffs.
You should never build fully around support with any class. The things necro can provide though are WoB, dark fields, blinds, condition cleansing and debuffing with weakness and chill. So not much in the way of useful support. Mesmers have better boon removal than necro’s. Fears are counter productive in PvE but spectral grasp can be good in select situations (not as good as guardian binding blades or mesmer focus pull).
because counting to 3 and evading is some serious skill
They still seem to struggle with things like that though. The worst is when you get some guy whos never done the path before and tries to stealth his way through the run. Gets to the golems and just keeps slaying despite being yelled at in chat to do the console. Happened the other day and I even targeted him so he had a big red cross in his face. Still didnt read or notice. So we kicked him.
Id love to see a video of you guys doing fractals 79. I wanna see how you melee archdiviner and mossman. I sort of know how to melee mossman with guards but whenever i tried meleeing arch id always get a massive smack to the face.
Thanks for the feedback, to be honest this kind of became off topic XD, it has never been an issue getting inside, just like Lilith Ajit.6173 posted it’s just an unexplained happening, Yet it is true that you can range it as a Mesmer, it is not the point of the post. The fact is this issue does hinder damage output on classes that use summoner creatures as pets. Just a little confused on why it happens, if it’s meant to and will it ever be changed or not. Regardless none of those can be answered by anyone but Dev’s but i appreciate all the feedback
Thanks, Vylins
It does hinder guard dmg output if you are using 1h sword. You cant hit the archers with projectiles and i think that particular fight seems to count the final hit of the sword as projectiles for some reason.
Its people like you who really need to learn more about the game other than cof p1. Almost every explorable path can be completed in under 20mins. The exceptions are Arah p4, SE p2 and maybe Arah p2. There are plenty of dungeons which take 10mins or less with a good group. Farming the same easy boring dungeon over and over and making more money than skilled players doing arah in 20mins is not fair.
This was a good change. Its rewarding path variety and giving speedclears in harders dungeons a decent reward.
This thread is going to generate a ton of fun. Or maybe not, because the interested party might prefer silence after this being posted + DnT’s 80 group melee.
Ill bite. That was incredibly low dps for killing bloom. Or do bosses have way more hp in 80?
I want it as group might. We are bleeding ourselves to get might. So surely we should share that ritual power with our allies. The duration and cooldown makes it so this wouldnt be overpowered so i really dont see why we cant have it as group might.
As I said allrdy, you wont get bleeding on yourself if you use it without targeting anyone!
I want it as group might. We are bleeding ourselves to get might. So surely we should share that ritual power with our allies. The duration and cooldown makes it so this wouldnt be overpowered so i really dont see why we cant have it as group might.
I think conditions are in a position where they are fine as they are. We just need bosses and game mechanics which rely on condition damage improving the kill speed (high toughness and low hp). Also torment will never make necro useful in pve. Mobs dont move and bosses dont move when doing a dungeon efficiently.
Well all dungeons which have mobs that drop down and spawn when you approach the area are bugged atm. All those drop down mobs are already spawned. Quite amusing in TA up path and arah.
Second, I only dream for some decent minions, that at least attack the same target that I am attacking, when (if!) I attack it!
Ok lets play a game. Tell us whats useful about necro’s and ill either shoot it down as not important or can be done by other classes with more useful utility.
I tanked a jade maw laser with 100% lifeforce the other day. It only took me down to 30% lifeforce. Not sure why jade maws attack is so weak rofl.
Was in full beserker gear and only 15 points in soul reaping.
care to upload a video of this ? ;-)
I dont record. Havent bothered to set up because i would prob get poor fps while doing it. Not sure if it was a bug or what though. If i take my necro into fractals again at some point ill be sure to try it again and maybe record.
Just ask yourselves if you really want to elect a fancy cat with a lead designer in his pocket. We’ll just have double up our support for Kiel on SATURDAY.
Brought to you by the people against smelly animals in office.
This man speaks the truth.
Remind me which Edge of Destiny member screwed over the others…oh right…the human -_-
Oh please, all Logan did was restore party balance. Six is too many for a dungeon run.
Snaff died because of him.
You should be blaming Queen Jennah for mind controlling logan so he had to come to her aid.
It’s a problem when those few paths of those few dungeons are the only content being played because of the design. This isn’t as simple as saying “oh, it’s only the meta”
This is not true. I have rarely been unable to find a group within 15 minutes for any dungeon I have wanted to do. There are popular paths that can be done extremely quickly with high rewards, but all paths are done.
Oh, and sometimes those paths that I was unable to find groups for are popular. Just Saturday I was unable to find a group for Fractals 12, 14, 16 or 18. I was once unable to find a group for Crucible of Eternity. Popularity is no guarantee of finding a group, and unpopularity rarely gets in the way of finding a group.
Try finding a pug for CM on eu servers. Its almost impossible.
Those are good points spoj, I guess I never considered it that way. A lot of the time when I make noise about support I am doing so in favor of fully built support roles. I will admit that my opinion can be a bit biased considering I main Necro, and really just want to be able to run full conditions and be as effective as raw DPS, but I can dream.
I assume that’s a main point of your comment about specialized DPS builds as well. I’m not sure if you’re also following my thread in the Necro forum but someone suggested that for bleed caps, after 25 stacks, instead of applying more bleeds the applicator instead increases bleed damage universally on the target by a percentage per additional “would-be” bleed.
Yep i have been reading your thread on the necro forums. Im not a fan of the bleed suggestion. I think it should just be something people are aware of and dont take anymore than 1 condition damage player into a dungeon.
When I mentioned specialised dps builds i was thinking of things which arent always effective but should be for some situations/dungeons. Like condition damage or interrupt builds or even reflect builds. Or just dps builds which take a lot of boon removal or debuffs. It all comes down to much more creative mechanics. Unfortunately I dont see that happening any time soon with the lack of a dungeon team at the moment.
At the moment only reflect is a good specialised build. But its only maximised for lupi speed clears so its not even in a perfect state.
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