If your going 30 in soul reaping for deathly perception and you want more survivability. Take valkyrie gear instead of knights (always have beserk trinkets). You will lose some precision out of DS but your damage will be just as good in DS. Plus you will have more hp and more lifeforce in DS. Beserker will allow you to consistantly do damage but for a deathly perception build you can sacrifice some crit chance without effecting dps too much.
Still if you arent worried about survivability, beserker with 30/25/0/0/15 does slightly more damage than 30/10/0/0/30 aslong as your target has 3 conditions on them. It out dpses it even more with more than 3 conditions.
While the single target 30/25/0/0/15 damage is fantastic, its not very flexible as you dont have the range like DS spamming does. And I find being in DS for dpsing is safer as it eats the damage for you isntead of being in your real HP.
This is if you run full zerkers gear, going a shroud build is safer. so 30/10/0/0/30. This especially better when in Fractals with tons of adds, as death perception makes your DS5 and DS4 all crit which does a BUNCH of damage for AOE and having your shroud take the hits.
So big scary melee bosses, lots of adds, a DS build is more flexible and safer. For max dps like COF runs, I would run 30/25/0/0/15. But even in COF, DS is nice especially for slave driver.
You can use DS with my build. You might not crit 100% of the time in DS but you will still crit most of the time especially with fury and/or banner of discipline. The damage still beats the DS build even if you use lifeblast for damage, unless you get really unlucky with crits lol. Effective power is higher on my build than nemesis’s. But your right, soul reaping gives defensive options. The stability is useful in a lot of places. If you were going for a necro run of cof you would propably make the gate control necro take the 30/10/0/0/30 build for stability while everyone else takes 30/25/0/0/15.
Well the game was intended for players to use support and control as well as damage in a group composition. Players that want to play the dungeons as intended, using a support or control role are, by a flawed system, less effective. Therefor players entering dungeons using the roles that were intended to be used are inherently less effective than blasting through the content with 5 damage roles.
Please note that I’m not saying 5 damage roles having the ability to be efficient is a bad thing, I’m just of the opinion that the alternative should have a level playing field. I guess I’m finding it difficult to articulate that I don’t think 5 damage roles should be punished, because I don’t, that’s not the point – if that’s how you want to play, have at it.
I just think there should be a reason to want or even need support and control builds in the content.
Support and control are both heavily used in speedclears. Control to position mobs either by mesmer or guardian pull or LoS. Or even line of warding to chain interrupt mobs in fractals. You could count blinds as either support or control, your supporting the team with them but your also controlling what attacks the boss/mobs miss with. Support comes from utilities like feedback, wall and boons like aegis along with damage buffs (banners and frost spirit). The problem is people are thinking of support and control roles as something you have to build your class around completely.
The reason we have all these weird stat combos is too make certain parts of certain builds more effective. But if you look at every single stat combo it either has power or condition damage on it. This suggests that Anet always intended everyone to be dps but some people to be dps with support and/or control. The more defensive gear is just for less experienced people who are learning mechanics or for select situations or WvW.
Anet said every class can play every role. Every class has a self heal and cc and damage mitigation which they can access without building completely around it. And that suggests to me that the meta was always meant to be full dps if your skilled enough, but take some utility for certain encounters. I do want them to make different and more specialised dps builds become more viable though.
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The only reason for a new DS ability was because necro’s finally got the updated DS ui and it left a blank space on the skill bar. Guardians dont need anything to make them even more popular.
If your going 30 in soul reaping for deathly perception and you want more survivability. Take valkyrie gear instead of knights (always have beserk trinkets). You will lose some precision out of DS but your damage will be just as good in DS. Plus you will have more hp and more lifeforce in DS. Beserker will allow you to consistantly do damage but for a deathly perception build you can sacrifice some crit chance without effecting dps too much.
Still if you arent worried about survivability, beserker with 30/25/0/0/15 does slightly more damage than 30/10/0/0/30 aslong as your target has 3 conditions on them. It out dpses it even more with more than 3 conditions.
Thats a really good point you mentioned Bweaty. We need more finishers. They designed us to have lots of fields but having so few blast finishers really isnt fair. And the fields we do have generally arent used or popular. Dark fields are good for fractals other than dredge though. We have more combo’s underwater. I want a blast finisher on a popular weapon. Warhorn 5 or axe 3 could quite easily become blast finishers.
Actually I’m told it was Swamp-Frost-Dredge so maybe there is something to that.
It doesnt matter what you start on. Its about whether people cycled threw fractals before starting. So whoever hosted cycled to find swamp or underwater but while they were searching they got dredge once or twice. So it caused the bug.
Can see it only being worth it on WvW eles. But the stats are too low even for celestial gear. Compare the numbers to beserker gear and then compare celestial rings to other beserker rings.
There’s another way to do this which involves everyone meleeing and no ranged shenanigans ;D
When a pug group usually does that with me they all end up dieing leaving me to solo the last 25% of the wurms hp. :<
Did you by any chance get it first and then re-roll to get something like swamp? From my experience those extra mobs are only there if you do that.
I’m pretty sure the first one was water. It would be an odd condition to base that extra spawn off in any case – “you re-rolled swamp, so dredge is harder”? And why only dredge? Why not make all of them harder if you re-roll?
Hes saying if you re rolled at all. It causes a bug to produce extra mobs. Its possible. It fits the situations where ive experienced it most of the time.
I can think of three solutions for Defiant:
1: It’s a boon, you can simply strip it, but also slowly peal it down as you can now. Stripping it is of course faster. No matter how high the stack, one boon removal and it’s gone.
2: Replace it with stability entirely. Why invent new mechanics that break the game, when you can use existing mechanics?
3: Make Defiant a temporary buff, that wears off after a few seconds. A boss can instantly receive Defiant after being hit by any CC skill, to prevent them from being stun locked. But then it quickly wears off, and the boss is vulnerable to it again.
Or just make it rewarding to keep defiant stacks low or completely off of the boss. Bosses toughness is increased with each defiant stack. Or boss takes extra damage for a few seconds after being succesfully cced.
Give us vigor and cleave and we will actually become pretty strong in pve. A unique team damage buff would also be nice (some kind of aura which grants the group extra damage or life steal or conditions on hit/crit). Auras could be a new utility skill theme for necro’s.
Maybe even boon sharing. Blood is Power = group might instead of selfish might. Make furious demise group fury. And spiteful spirit group retal. Instantly become more useful in dungeons.
Would also like the spite minor traits to be completely remade. The only one which is semi useful is the 5 point one, but I still feel thats a blood magic themed trait.
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Healing and tanking should never be worthwhile in gw2. I do however want mechanics to be improved to make other forms of damage builds more viable. Condition damage and interrupt/cc builds could be made viable in speed clears with some very simple gameplay mechanics. High toughness and low hp makes condition damage on one party member a good choice. Or expand on mechanics surrounding defiant.
Example : Deal more damage when boss has less or no defiant stacks but give them attacks which force players to interrupt occasionally. So players have to remove the stacks again to improve kill time. The idea of having to interrupt could be done by giving a high cooldown ability on the boss which does very high damage and cant be blocked/reflected/blinded and maybe even dodged. Or just force the players to dodge other attacks and interrupt that one unblockable attack.
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That could be it. We always cycle for swamp for 20+.
I’ve spent a lot of time in fractals over the last few months and there’s every possibility I’m imagining things, but it seems like every patch that comes out adds some new undocumented tweak to the dredge fractal (and I’m not talking about jump-able ledges). For example, I don’t remember there being patrols at the start for 30+. Is this new?
Its random. We got it on 32 most of the time a month ago and then afterwards they were gone. Sometimes you just get extra mobs. No idea why.
The amount of refinement in that video does not come from autoattacking, it comes from a very deep understanding of classes, builds, and what to do with them. Autoattacking with Sword is easier in this situation than it is in a lot of others because of how quickly things die. This is not the case in other dungeons, and it requires a good bit of skill not to die while playing with a Sword on Ranger.
Furthermore, I’d probably still be kitten kitten ing around with Soldier’s gear on my Guardian if it weren’t for seeing videos of speedclears and high DPS groups. These videos interest some people and inspire them to become better players. Just because you want to call me out and say that I’m not helping doesn’t mean that everyone feels this way. Sure there will always be bad players that don’t care, people like that probably won’t care about what my guild does or how fast we can do it. The people that may be on the fence about a build or may see these videos and want to improve are the people that will care, and I hope that they see videos like this. The rest of the people that want to complain can waste their time doing something else.
This is so true. I use to be a massive scrub along with my friends/guildies. Until we saw some of strifes speed clear videos. Then we started changing how we played and learning about this whole dps thing. Speedclearing inspired me and my friends to improve. And now im a massive scumbag elitest! All is well.
At least, could we now enter “Our Special World” when going into DS, and only see other necros that are also in DS, so that we can share a cup of tea, talk about how life is good without the fear of a thief jumping on you and pet the other end of our flesh wurm (who lives in both world).
Gathering lifeforce would now have a greater goal, and because Lifeforce decreases by itself, we would strive to return to this world and gather lifeforce even faster. Rabbits’s population in WvW will decrease faster than it can spawn, but life will be good.
I support this change. It would work like stealth, except that we would be invisible to everyone but necros in DS, and couldn’t see anything but necros in DS and terrain. We could dance together, laugh, cry….
We could call it the necroverse.
EU or US?
I assume this isnt the ops first class as he crafted the necro to 80. Therefore i think its safe to assume hes capable of surviving with beserker or rampager gear. Which are much better choices.
Yeah we had this last night. Ice elemental aswell. You have to watch the debuff timer to know whether it worked or not. We also had an issue of the interact ui not showing up sometimes. Not sure if it worked by pressing f anyway though. I wasnt doing lava buckets but when my party member complained about them not working I went up to check. There was no interact at all on one of them and i couldnt tell if pressing f worked because of the bugged animation and boss wasnt underneath.
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Really, just making Defiant a boon that can be removed (but not stolen, so no larcenous strike/arcane thievery shenanagins) would go a long way to making necros desirable in PvE content (make it convert to Torment, I guess)
What would make us desirable is making our DS boons from traits group shared instead of just on the necro. Also if BiP was party might that would be amazing. Instantly become useful with good might stacking.
Entering DS copies all boons to allies.
Or entering DS gives 5 stacks of might to allies for 10 seconds.
Would rather we have new minor traits in spite though.
Can’t you Fear them against corner or something? That at least sounds useful to me.
pretty sure you can but from gameplay videos I’ve seen the direction feared target run to seems a little more difficult to control. Hmm, maybe I can go into a coe myself and test with fear me
Fear makes enemies run away from the caster. So you would have to move round the other side of the mobs when loSing or something. Potentially putting you out of position and for multiple mobs they are always gonna split up because they are never perfectly stacked. Can avoid with imobalize + fear though.
Fixed that for you, also id love to see a pug in all zerker do MF or AR, oh wait i did and 99% of them died when the bosses werent even on half hp.
Running full beserkers in dungeons does not involve exploiting or cheesing. It involves tactics and smart use of mechanics. Honestly dont know why you keep accusing people who actually know how to do pve the most effectively as exploiters. DPS is the the meta, stop crying about it just because you dont like it. Its not going to change until Anet radically alters and expands on game mechanics.
And like a number of us said in another thread. Weve completed both AR and MF in full beserker groups. They are so much easier that way aslong as you have complete idiots in the team. The amount of pugs ive been in who wipe because the dps is so poor is embarrasing. AR possibly warrants a bit more surivability than MF but that just means you take an extra zerker guard or something with condi cleanses coming out the kitten if you want an extra bit of safety, still not needed though.
Anyway back on topic. The whole reason behind the dps meta is because every class has self heals and damage mitigation in some form (at the very least dodges). This means you can negate/avoid any damage and clear mobs/bosses before they wear the team down. Survivability in dungeons is selfish and considered leeching by any more experienced dungeon runner. You arent helping anyone by trying to tank in a game where there is no tanking. Mobs cleave so even if they do stay aggroed on 1 person they will hit others at the same time (tank pointless). Full beserkers can share damage and res each other fast when stacked, dodge/block big hits. If you dont want to be selfish in dungeons take dps. Theres nothing selfish about actually contributing to killing the mobs quickly.
As little variety as this dungeon meta has, in some ways its better if people actually realised to take dps. Theres no waiting around for ages to find a tank or healer. Everyone just takes dps and so its easier to find groups. Unfortunately people are so stuck in following Anets phrase “play how you want to”, they refuse to improve and learn about the game and so you get pug groups full of PVT scrubs. You wouldnt take 5 tanks into a dungeon in wow. Why do it in gw2? DPS is the most important role in any mmo, gw2 just happens to not need tanks or healers as the dps roles can support themselves with utility, dodges and self heals.
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Thats the point though. You can complete any dungeon with any terrible build in this game. Blood magic doesnt provide enough sustain to be useful in pve. Survivability isnt needed in pve anyway. You get all you need in that department with dodges, blinds, aegis and reflects.
Before omnomberry pies/ghosts were nerfed and every warrior was using them for massive sustain + dmg, I tried incorperating life steal into my beserker build to suppliment the omnom pies. It wasnt worth it. The dps loss was too great and the sustain I got was barely noticable.
Please dont go into blood magic for pve. It doesnt help.
Stick to pvp advice Altroll, as much as people disagree with your builds in pvp atleast you have somewhat decent knowledge of pvp. But your suggestions for pve are the kind of things i ran when i first hit 80 and had no idea what to build or how to play(basically terrible builds).
Either beserker or rampager build for pve. Wouldnt use staff unless the situation absolutely requires 1200 range. Full condition is a bad idea for pve, its ok for wvw. Although if you want to stay full condition despite how bad it is for dungeons and pve id switch to gear with the carrion stat combo instead of rabid. Power is so useful on any build.
2 ways to get around it:
Go to character select and join back in again.
Move your minimap to the top right corner of you screen, although if you do this it feels like the world will explode
And now I cant move it back down to the bottom.kitten:<
when you hover your mouse on the minimap, a black panel appears on the right side of the minimap with some icon. Click on the black panel without clicking on the icons, you should be able to drag it back down.
Yep ty haha. I had to ask in guild chat to fix it. I moved it up top just by adjusting the size and dragging it up. Doesnt work when trying to put it back down though. :/
And it is funny people start talking about the “use” of fear…
How many times have you seen a bunch of mobs coming to a nice LOS spot and gets feared all over the place?
How many times have you seen mobs get fear through a wall of reflection so people have to go the other side to kill it under the fire of ranged attacks?
How many times have you seen lava elementals get feared out of shield of avengers?For me, too many times already.
A necro feared alpha before we could push him into the boxes the other day. Alpha middle of the room with 5 stacks of defiant and all of us getting dragon tooths spawn on us, i dont dodge because i decided to rage at him in chat lol. I lost my kitten after that incident as the run had been going pretty shocking thanks to that necro already.
You’re talking about excluding at least 4 of the 8 professions in the entire game. How is this their fault? And using ranged attacks is lazy by default?
Read both his posts again. I think your missing the point.
2 ways to get around it:
Go to character select and join back in again.
Move your minimap to the top right corner of you screen, although if you do this it feels like the world will explode
And now I cant move it back down to the bottom.kitten:<
@ Nike
Put that thing back in your pants, please.
I have no interested in a kitten ing contest.Let me try and be more clear.
I’m saying race-style record keeping isn’t really all that much of a community support system because the average player can’t do much with the information provided by it. That’s not a dig at OP’s performance, that’s a critique of the speedrun meta’s influence over the pug meta. There’s nothing inherently evil about tooting your own horn, but I just can’t agree with the altruistic spin I quoted because it seems to encourage that influence. Which I regard as a recipe for disaster, and OP regards as a trial-by-fire.
How are people supposed to learn if they have no reference to work towards or optimised run to watch. If all your learning from is watching other peoples pug tactic runs you will never get anywhere. People would still be doing the same pug tactics they did months ago. These videos have slowly shifted the more experienced puggers to do things slightly differently and more efficiently over time.
Ah here we go. It’s time to play the ’ you’re an elitist scumbag’ card. My personal favorite.
I’m not the one insisting everyone should avoid rangers and low armor classes in Fractals. I’m open to inviting everyone. But it seems a majority of the people posting in this thread are against playing with other classes because one strategy is superior in their opinion, and thus the only viable way to play the game. Is that not a form of elitism? Or if you don’t like that word, closed minded?
No we are against stupid tactics.
No its really not. The only reason its widely used is because its 1200 range. Its pretty much essential in pvp for putrid mark. But using staff as a main weapon in pve is awful.
Why? Isn’t it the perfect weapon to quickly apply lots of conditions and tag lots of enemies?
Tagging, sure. Doing damage no. You do better dmg with scepter dagger on a condition/hybrid build and you have almost as much aoe. But going full condition build is terrible.
Staff is one of the best weapons for the necro, so it is no wonder that almost all necros use it to some extend.
No its really not. The only reason its widely used is because its 1200 range. Its pretty much essential in pvp for putrid mark. But using staff as a main weapon in pve is awful.
You don’t want us to try and help the community by pushing more skilled play?
Not really, no.
The point of giving people advice is that it’s something they can realistically find useful, not a demonstration of prowess that when attempted will likely get them killed. Advice is like; If you want to play aggressively mix in knights with your berserker gear until you reach a comfortable equilibrium, and then as you learn the finer points of damage avoidance start mixing more berserkers back in. ‘See what me and my awesome glass cannon friends can do on this one specific ridiculously easy path’ is not useful advice. That’s bragging.(Not that’s it’s your fault the community’s so mixed up proof of concept for a build comes down to that.)
skillup pls
Im guessing a ranger will be in that comp.
It’s scepter. And, i tought it was the opposite, guardians using scepters are called noobs. Like, it’s the only ranged weapon we have and the Smite is very nice, but if you use scepter you are automatically a noob, kittening pathetic this thing, so now i can’t use scepter? Really?
Stupid elitists and so called “veteran/pro” players are ruining this game.
Using scepter 24/7 is stupid. Nothing annoys me more than seeing a guardian just sitting back with a scepter while the rest of the group is meleeing. Also guards meleeing with scepter, i facepalm at that everytime. I carry a scepter and use it if I need to range something. Rest of the time I run with sword focus and gs. Sometimes staff for running or kiting on dredge fractal gate room. Hammer for fights like laurent in TA or mossman.
You should be able to get under 17s just by repeating what you did last time. Beserkers power was bugged so it was less dmg. Heightened focus was also bugged but im not sure you guys used that?
3. MF and AR were good kittenslaps to full zerkers.
My old guild had an easy time doing MF in zerkers. I did AR with a group of friends, much faster and easier with zerkers aswell. We did take 2 guardians for condi removal on final boss though. Stack and kill fast with chain condi cleanse and blocks to get the time gated achieve comfortably.
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Or just jump diagonally into the wall.
Actually I could be wrong about this but DS hinted in a thread recently that they take 5 warriors into fractal 79 lol. They dont bother with guards anymore they just go for pure dps. But the guys in DS are insanely good.
If by DS you mean Dhuum Stucker guild they don’t even do fractals, let alone 79.
Whenever I swap our only guardian for necro (leman) the difference is like night and day. And it’s not in favour of guardian. Good players will succeed while bad ones have to use nannies (guardians) to compensate their less skillful gameplay. Only fractal where having a guardian is justified is Uncategorized but that fractal is, in conjuction with dredges one, the most silly design I have ever seen.
My mistake. Although ive always found dps guard so much more useful due to the aoe pulls and reflects+aegis. I guess its not needed with skilled players but I just enjoy the extra safety you provide for teammates with a guardian. I can see myself going back to necro for fractals or using warrior or mesmer if I get a decent group to do fractals with on a regular basis.
Why do you guys care how much AP other people have or how we got it. If you really want to compete for AP just work harder. 500pts is barely any in the grand scheme of things. And many people who did play gw1 like me dont have the full 500. I only have 250 from HoM. There is no benefit to compete for AP other than friendly rivalry with friends. Which if you are moaning about your friends having more AP than you because they played gw1, you need to get a grip.
I was trying a bunker build yesterday in pvp. Our dmg mitigation is really good with the spectral armour change and well cooldowns with protection on wells. Unfortunately going up against an ele 1v1 gave me a 5min long fight which i thought neither of us would win. Until i slowly became more and more unable to sustain myself, whereas the ele could pretty much just instantly heal to full hp every 10 seconds. We need actuall hp sustain not lifeforce sustain. Although even with spectral armour and using dagger I found it very difficult to maintain decent amounts of lifeforce for the entire fight. I suspect going clerics instead of soldier gear might of been a better option but I still think our healing options are too weak when trying to play as an attrition class.
The spark pulls of my group definately werent that slow. Some of them might of been pretty bad but some of them were faster than your average pull, yet she still went invis after a couple of seconds. Although our spark pulls were good it felt like simin was regening unusually fast for quite a few attempts. And that may be whats causing the problem. Not sure how to replicate that though.
Well I always suspected the utility a necro has is better for fractals. Doesnt change that we are useless in other dungeons. When I use to take necro into fractals i did enjoy using WoP + WoD for cliffside. Never regarded spectral grasp as that good as guardians and mesmers can pull aswell. I also stopped taking necro because i could do more for standard pug groups and my group of friends as a guardian.
Also nemesis as much as I respect you as a player and a theorycrafter I know you dont speedrun or know much about how useful guardians and warriors are in those runs. I also know who SOLO are and if they are taking a necro for runs then thats something im interested in finding out more about. But it seems they are taking leman for his skill rather than his class.
Still in terms of regular dungeons, necros are in a pretty shoddy position.
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Ohh and before you bash me that my comparison is skewed because I play with bads… I played with [SOLO] players that day and they have probably the best PvE squad on EU-side. Hell, they have the almighty Wethospu (probably the best PvE warrior on the planet Earth) and Haviz.
Im curious. What build do you run on your necro when doing fractals. Also was the necro a choice you guys made or you just werent fussed. If you guys did choose to take a necro, why? For blind and weakness?
Dagger is better.
Generates more LF, roots and does more direct damage (if you can stay in range), yes.
Better? No.
Axe with axe training bumps LB damage by 15%. It generates almost as much LF, and has a 600 range with an AoE cripple and retal.
Different weapons for different playstyles, builds and instances. A while ago I was firmly part of the “dagger is better” school of thought, but now I tend to use axe.
More dps = better. Melee isnt hard. Theres very little challenging content when in a group in gw2.
I prefer axe for:
1) Better DS blasts
2) AoE for tagging, cripple, retal and boon stripping
3) Ranged attack for when melee is a bad idea (WvW, Lupicus, that sort of thing)
4) Kiting in WvW/sPvPDagger is good, the DPS is higher and the LF gen is better, but as of recent patches it’s no longer flat out “better”. You’re welcome to keep using dagger, but promoting it as absolutely better is wilfully ignorant at best and daft at worst.
So im ignorant because I can melee lupi with a dagger?
Not sure why there is always such a large debate over this.
ALL classes are viable in PvE.
The only difference is the time it takes to complete an instance and even then at worst what are you talking? 30second to a minute or two max for total completion?
That might even be going over board.
When I do a CoF 1 – If i do it in 6 minutes or I do it in 7 minutes or even 8 minutes. I don’t care and I truly don’t understand the games population being so fixated on this.
When you look at longer dungeons the time difference is much larger. 10-15minute dungeon takes an hour for pug groups.
Thats the problem. My guild is full of casual players aswell and even the ones who take beserker warriors are probably doing less than my beserker necro because they build wrong, take the wrong utilities and dont use the proper weapons or a proper dps rotation. Its a casual player thing, most of them are just bad or clueless. Heck im far from amazing but atleast i know how to maximise my dps potential and know all the mechanics. I still make amateur mistakes now and again though.