Well IMO solders still has the edge, the bonus you get from healing power is laughable. But as in all things it comes down to playstyle and preference. I’m sure some people out there swear by clerics gear.
The main issue is a lack of vigor and access to blocks/immune. While I think the ideas for solving the issues listed above are cool and creative, overall I can see too many places where changing mechanics like deathshroud would be too powerful or too weak.
I think the solution is/always has been to simply give us access to vigor via traits, give us access to a short block (maybe 2-3 sec when you first enter DS) and finally just fix the blood line to have some legitimate scaling with healing power/ power.
Over all 2 new traits and a slight buff to siphoning mechanics will allow us all the survivability we need. Until then don’t go trying to fight zergs lol
My reasoning for EP is simply that it doesn’t hurt to go into that tree anyhow, you get some much needed condition duration and I would usually spend those points on speedy kits so dropping that didn’t really hurt.
Elixir infused bombs… this trait is one of the most overrated and one of the weakest grandmaster traits. It is not worth to go for it. Better run 30/10/0/20/10 or 30/10/15/015 for support builds.
False, I mean your entitled to your opinion but… No. Now I do agree that for dungeon running zerker is the best BUT the added healing from your bomb spam adds up to quite a lot (in fact it’s the #1 group sustain ability I the game)
Also from a solo perspective elixir infused bombs + backpack regenerator + regeneration = one tough sob. Add in healing turret, water fields and all the blast finishers and our healing is on par with elementalist (tbh I feel like its greater than eles) great trait for bunkers and other pvp/solo pve builds. Also a good build for a commander.
I run 20/20/0/30/0 enhanced performance, HGH. With altruism and med kit stacking might is super easy. I usually run some condition duration runes and givers weapons.
Currently running rabid gear (mostly) and I am slowly swapping out for dire… I miss my crit though (less bleeds)
In large fights dire armor is pretty nice but i really enjoy roaming and small team fights so I still need some crit.
All of my ascended gear is zerker atm but I just love conditions in wvw so I’m working on a second set, as well as a set for my Necro. No build does it all. Best thing to do is find out how you like to play and build for that.
Oh and side note, rocket boots a wicked fun and really useful. I’ll take rocket boots over Elixer s any day, just my opinion (Elixer S is still strong)
Long time engineer player, and out of my 4 lvl 80s I found it the easiest to level. Best advice I can give… BOMBS! With bombs and good kiting skills you will take down almost anything with no issues. Engi was the only class that I was able to do “most” group events and solo champions (melee ofc)
And now I run a full zerker bomb build, some will argue that grenade outperforms bombs but IMO bombs are king. Being in melee requires you to be able to dodge though so get quick with those fingers and learn boss mechanics and enemy tells.
After the 10/15 patch… Yes absolutely! I have played Necromancer sence beta and have wanted to play as MM for a long time but they were just not viable. (outside of leveling and solo pve roaming)
I have tested MM in every dungeon and almost every path (there are a few I just hate so meh) they have preformed quite well. Of course there are some bosses with instant death mechanics and your minions just end up dead, but tbh those are few and far between.
In short, go for it! Best trait to pick up is the 20 point death magic trait that buffs hp by 50%
I’m working on my celestial set and I’m among on braving travelers. For full solders I think speed is better.
As a support it will depend on what other traits you take in blood. You will also be using staff a lot, possibly more than dagger. I would recommend knights, or a solders and zerker mix. Solders gear is great in wvw but I usually play it with a DS build.
Noting both of you chose Axe/Focus, what is the reason for this? Does axe compare to dagger in damage even though it is at greater range?
Dagger beats Axe in terms of dps but axe stacks vuln and that will allow your pets to do more damage. It’s also a great source of LF.
Even with the MM in full zerker with all his minions attacking the same target, it doesn’t compare to a great sword warrior’s DPS on a single target, let alone when you factor in cleave. As long as the PvE meta is stacking and corner pulling nothing will be able to compete with the great sword warrior.
Outside of the stack and smack meta, minions are fantastic in PvE. The MM excels in any situation where he only needs to rely on himself. This makes him very good for things like bunkering, taking small camps and fighting small skirmishes, or fighting a boss after the rest of the party wiped.
Well… Yeah, but that’s kind of an overall issue with pve atm. 1v1 the DPS is not that far apart.
This is the build i have been using.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAndWjEal6ta2a07JAJFRT9kiuBH6RuSXLA
I like it so far, I left sigils/runes and equipment out because even within a power build I use different things for different situations. One common theme is I usually build a bit tougher as a MM because i feel like my DPS does not suffer all that much when not running full zerker (obviously it suffers some but that’s just my play-style)
There are many counter plays… You just need to counter them lol. As stated before stun breaks & cleanse mechanics will clean up a fear Necro. Besides it’s no worse than warriors, engineers, or any other class that has a stun chain.
I noonger run this build but man I always hate when people QQ about it, I mean what you didn’t bring a stun breaker… Or any way to deal with conditions… And your built for 0 vitality (maybe a little toughness lol) and you are confused how a NECROMANCER killed you!?
Yeah I’m sorry that the kings of conditions melted your 13k life like it was nothing, o wait.
Yeh… as I said, fear/terror has 2 counters. It had no issue being OP until we could throw more condi’s than can be cleaned.
War’s get more CC than stun brake can counter. (Especially if your a necro)
As you pointed out, toughness dose nothing vs condi, or damage on fear, or our siphon ‘heals’ damage.
It’s sad they have already nurfed terror, over a totally different issue. It’s sad that people still think it’s our ‘fear’ that makes us so cheap.
The fix is simple. Get rid of Dumfire/Torment. Or make cleanse keep up with the extra condi’s. Make siphon damage work like pretty much every other source of ‘direct damage’. (Rework torment to actually stop others running, as that was the idea of it, not to just help overwhelm the cleanse.)
Or, just keep nurfing all other necro ability’s till it’s deemed were just soo weak it’s fair. (The way it seems to be rolling)
Sorry for the wall of quotes, You mentioned that a nice fix would be to buff cleanse mechanics… guess what happened in the 10/15 patch.
And honestly people who are calling terror OP are offering rediculas ideas to “nerf” a skill that was recently nerfed. The ability to stack conditions faster than you can cleanse them is what makes conditionmancer viable… think about it what would happen if we were unable to stack conditions so fast… we would do absolutely no damage, get steamrolled… and you would be happy.
Still dont even play this build myself but when i face a terrormancer i dont get peeved. I do get peeved when i fight a stunlock WAR or a bloody THF
MMs great for leveling as well, once you have 30 points in death magic (50% hp) skill points are easy mode, so is everything accept champs lol.
They are great, consider that they also build LF that’s just a bonus. I think the hesitation is the relativity long cool downs.
Myself im not a huge fan of spectral walk but i love my wurm for so… many reasons.
I prefer power, I’ll list why but the cool part about MM is it’s flexability so it’s up to you.
Reasons for building power over conditions
1. I run 20 in blood and power effects vampiric master (albeit slightly) which increases minion DPS and (once again slightly) increases HPS
2. Minions AI responds best with single target attacks and our power weapons, Axe, &Dagger are great at this.
3. Being that you are pretty much required to take 20 points into spite and death magic (and I also recommend 20 into blood) your not left with much room in your build for buffing conditions.
4. I’m going to repeat #1 here because it’s really important… Vampiric Master is an awesome trait, the extra healing is fun but the point is the extra damage (it adds up faster than you think)
Just my 2c
It… Gets… Worse…
You will here it in your dreams, it haunts you.
Terror isn’t OP.
They added DumbFire & Torment. Then a CC that did extra damage while your CC’ed, followed by the more condi’s than can be cleaned is un-fun to others. As there’s no counter play.
Terror/Fear has 2 counters, brake stun, and can be cleansed. And was fine before too many condi’s to clean bullkitten.
There are many counter plays… You just need to counter them lol. As stated before stun breaks & cleanse mechanics will clean up a fear Necro. Besides it’s no worse than warriors, engineers, or any other class that has a stun chain.
I noonger run this build but man I always hate when people QQ about it, I mean what you didn’t bring a stun breaker… Or any way to deal with conditions… And your built for 0 vitality (maybe a little toughness lol) and you are confused how a NECROMANCER killed you!?
Yeah I’m sorry that the kings of conditions melted your 13k life like it was nothing, o wait.
I can confirm this, I just competed my testing of all dungeons (fractals next yay) and minions survive just fine through most boss fights even AoE situations. The biggest issues are with instant death mechanics and only a few bosses use them.
Overall if I’m really playing hard I’ll swap out my minions on 3 or 4 bosses to wells (untraited) and it works fine. But tbh I just re-sommon when I can and deal with it because in most encounters I kick major butt.
Oh and I’m learning that minions (espeshaly golem charge) take out objects super fast, I can take out the gate in CoF path 1 in like 2-3sec. Most of the pug runs I do I get people saying WTF!?
Astewart my build is very similar to yours, 30/0/20/20/0 however instead of d/d and d/f I run a/f and staff. Instead of close to death I run axe mastery (but for daggers CtD is certainly awesome) also I run transfusion.
The idea is that with Staff and Transfusion I can support my minions through a boss fight so I’m sommoning them less often (in most fights I don’t need to re summon at all)
Glad to see people testing it, my OP may have been a bit zelous lol MM will probably never be meta, but in PvE it out preforms IMO every other build in 80% of situations. (Minions still die on certain bosses too fast to be useful, but only a handful)
well elixir infused bomb work for bomb kit
why hgh don’t work with elixir gun
and hgh description say “ALL” elixir, now i dont count 1 to 3 elixir gun skills but skill 4 and 5 got on description the word “elixir” and same to tool belt elixir gun skill
i count this for elixir skills
Wait… WHAT!? Elixer Infused Bomb works with HGH? Did I totally misinterpret that, or have I been missing out?
I will never run MM because they are not undead, they are cthuloids.
kitten?
What the hell is “meta”?
Most popular/strongest build for a given state of the game. ex terror builds in pvp
I see potential here, I use MM and i use bone fiends imob all the time… don’t have dagger offhand so no Dark Pact but otherwise well worth it. You also have Wail of Doom for a 2-3 sec stun and for me Golem Charge for a nice KD.
Sorry if it came off wrong (and I see it probably looked off and I deleted the part that imo looked way too insulting): I don’t disagree with you that minions are great. What I disagree with is the idea that they will ever become meta. I really get everything you’re saying, I’ve tried to argue it all before, the problem is just that I don’t see the negative stigma that MMs have going away.
I’d be interested to see DPS numbers for other classes to compare though. This could be a really high DPS setup, and it is similar to what I was going to swap over to in PvE (but I wasn’t going blood magic).
lol we just gotta keep kicking kitten till people cant deny the greatness of our minions insert evil laugh
Im working on a video guide atm… not all that motivated though so it may take a while. I would like to break down each Minion to there average DPS/DPM and compare them to other skills for other classes. I hate math but ill putt some work into it later.
I usually like Bhawbs posts (and i listen to but of corps from rime to time) so no arguments I believe you know your stuff… to say that i don’t is slightly rude but, meh.
What you need to consider is that not only did minion DPS gain a slight buff Vampiric Master but also they stay active (the new HP is the heal buff) while wells ect are held back by a CD. Over a 3 min fight my Minions will out DPS any other skill i could place on my bar, accepts maybe epidemic but only on heavy trash bosses.
The argument againced MM is that the AI is bad and they die easily. TBH I don’t feel the AI is all that bad, sure i would love some more control but my minions attack what im attacking and they seem to do it right away 98% of the time. As far as them just being SIF fodder (die easily) this is exactly what i have spent the last 3 days testing and atm i have no issues keeping my minions alive in most situations. I still want ANET to either lower the CD on some of them (could be OP) or just give all pets a defense mechanic for AoE situations.
OFC there are some bosses that MM will be at a disadvantage and for those i will either just suck it up and do the best i can, or ill switch up my traits for that boss my 30/0/20/20/0 build is somewhat flexible if im in a terabad party and they “need” me to kick butt that fight lol.
I get that people are not a fan of MM but that’s why I post to begin with…
This op actually does know what he’s talking about… But your entitled to your opinion. PvE Necromancer is a rather poor class (not unviable) just poor. I have been running a power build for quite some time, playing with wells and spectral crap but if you run a lot of dungeons then you know… They could do better lol.
MM provides a much needed “role” to play, something only we can do. And before you go blaming AI why don’t you test it.
For those who are actually interested in contributing to the discussion. My build is currently 30/0/20/20/0 but I have changed it 2 or 3 times so far. It’s only been a few days and I don’t have anything written in stone yet.
Bottom line my MM will outplay your “insert other build” (in dungeons) guaranteed.
Originally we all started out as necromancers with dreams of commanding our own little smelly army. Unfortunately our dreams were crushed as soon as we found out that in GW2 minions were for idiots (really)
Now all is forgiven and we have new hope! I have been mad testing my full MM build sense Tuesday and I am very pleased with the results. Its by no means perfect but the added HP allows my little buggers to stay alive im most situations. I have run every dungeon and almost all paths (still have Sorrows and Arah left to do)
I have a warrior and an engineer and my necromancer has been placed on the shelf for everything but sPvP but now im considering playing him as my main, I easily do more damage than my engineer (and im good lol) My warrior is probably still slightly better at DPS but overall i would place MM necromancer in the #2 DPS spot for most encounters.
Also I usually run with half zerker half soldiers or some other mix so I get to do respectable damage while also maintaining good defense (for speed runs ill run full zerker)
Post your findings and questions here and if anyone has a video that wold be cool
Yeah the Transfusion trait is pretty good now, I have to say! Pity we can’t heal ourselves with it. The most obvious use I can see for it is for a minionmancer to heal their minions, but unfortunately there’s far better traits for MMs to take in that same attribute line…
I don’t know i usually take transfusion
I can’t speak to PvP or even WvW ( though I’d assume it’s fine) but in PvE MM is so awesome! I have been playing seance launch and I am about to take my Necro off the shelf full time.
I have run CoF, CoE, HotW, AC, & Arah. Tonight I plan on running some fractals (well see lol) and Sorrows. So far MM far out shines my other builds (and my condition build is fully ascended)
I did do TEQ and my minions still die but I trait for the 20% cool down and tbh I feel like I get as much damage out of them as I would a well before they die and they have a shorter CD (pro tip use wurm it’ll save your hide)
Oh and I have not really had an issue with pet AI although in SPvP that may be different.
In short I feel like saying it… MM is possibly the new PvE meta.
The issue with being CCd has been commented on by other posts im worried that this is intentional and its dumb… testing to come.
Overall I here most people saying that the responsiveness has improved, but not many people have been using minions so it may just be that they are finally noticing the minion AI improvements from earlier patches. Or it may be a stealth fix who knows (final rest anyone =P)
Its already been said but just to be sure… its always been like this. forever.
Tested and it appears its just 25% (when i pop swiftness i notice that i go faster)
edit to remove quote
Overall I am upset about the lackluster “buff” to life steal (not a buff at all if you don’t understand sarcasm lol)
I do think the added damage is cool and im excited about trying a MM build in PvE
Well overall the “Idea” of the patch is ok. Make healing power effect life steal and buff minions. Im still hoping they hotfix the blood trait line because the patch notes clearly read as a buff to life steal in general.
From my initial testing, Vampiric master is a nerf for MM builds. Pre-patch I would see around about 114 inc heal from a minion. Now I’m seeing 86 pre minion, I changed to a Clerics Amulet, took my healing upto about 1360 and it didn’t change so it looks like it is NOT changing with Healing Power? Also life siphon doesn’t seem to scale well at all either. Another thing I’ve noticed, minions are LESS responsive post patch, they seem to sit there for upto 10 seconds before attacking my target.
The more I look into this, either stuff is just broken (they got the scaling completely wrong) or it’s an ill-thought out “buff” that is ACTUALLY a nerf. This is in sPvP/tPvP btw.
The buff here is that it now does extra damage… they nerfed the healing to compensate for added DPS, not that i think thats cool just what happened
I’m starting to get the impression this whole revamp was a big ruse. I really just cant fathom how they could invest weeks of testing and equations into the blood traits just to have them give the exact same amount of healing as before. Then have the nerve to try to sell it as if they were actually going to attempt to make them viable. The whole thing feels like a shell game or typical Anet wordplay to justify there ineptitude. Still, I hope i’m wrong and its just bugged atm
The idea is to base life steal on Healing Power, you should see little to no change with general power or condition gear but if you equip clerics or something now you can buff your life steal…. its actually kind of cool. (and they way it should have always been)
Minion Master seems to have received a buff, Though we may want to run clerics gear now… not sure how i feel about that. Guess i have like 700k karma i cant use so might as well re-gear lol
Honestly the only this I want to see done to the necromancer is to have our minions buffed so they take less AoE damage; I feel like the increase to minion HP will not do enough to make them viable in dungeons.
Man people whine WAY too much in here…. I’m out
I honestly taught the notes looked great from a PvE perspective. Some “minor” yet important HUD changes. And a nice buff to minions. We also receive some utility love via our Blood trait line (Transfusion, Deathly Invigoration, ect)
I mean sure its not the “fix” we were all hoping for but in PvE im excited for the possibility of running a MM build, with the buff to overall HP of minions AND the buff to Vampiric Master (now this trait makes your pets do added damage) this could be a new PvE meta and tbh if you include minion DPS Necros are on par with Warriors. Our only issue is that minions suck and die all the time.
I still say our minions need to have a buffed AoE resistance because they stand in fire, most other MMOs have done this.
Turret cooldowns are way too long.
I don’t think any should be over 30seconds tops.
I so agree but TBH this would end up being OP. Turret detonations are a blast finisher and a Knock back having 3-4 of them on a <30sec CD could be considered OP for sure.
I would be happy if the upcoming “Pet” HP buff effected Turrets and i would wet myself if we could summon our deployed turrets to a target location.
Ill be honest, I love playing a supporting role… The issue in GW2 is that your support is underwhelming in PvE for other players (you will always heal yourself for far more than others)
Now healing builds are great as bunkers but that’s more of a PvP/WvW build. Im not saying that healing is not “viable” but you would just be more effective as a dps. I truly do hate the Berserker/Might meta for PvE but to be 100% honest it is just so… much… better lol
plz don’t take me as a downer, I do love my Healing bombs build with Clerics gear but mostly in WvW. In dungeons ill run full zerker and i do a TON of dungeons, all of them too not just CoF and CM speed runs, best groups are all highly oriented on DPS.
Well This is more of a discussion on how valuable Bunkers are. Specifically, of course, Engies.
I was told I was the best Bunker ever today. I know im not the best, but for someone to say so to me I feel really accomplished. I usually feel as though I am such an important piece to my team. I can tell when autobalance sometimes throws me on the other team.Surviving 2/3 Vs 1 holding a point is a big difference maker. From my experience, I think Engies make better Bunkers than guardians. Though I understand why guardians are considered better at it, I still think that a Highly skilled Engie bunker can out bunk a guardian. =\ What do you guys think?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZX3y3F1LJxoCdO0jCjf1KSRlt8nCyF-TkAg2EGpMyZkxIpRWjGNM/AIve been pretty successful with this build surviving Heartseeker Thief with the Elite(the two extra theives) and 1 more enemy on a node by the skin of my teeth. Any way to help this build so that I can better prepare for those type of surprise attacks?
Overall I do agree that Engineer make dang good bunkers, Guardians are needed but only until next patch… then we get AoE stability via Elixir B.
I would suggest a couple of trait swaps, I also run the 10/0/30/20/10 setup but instead of Protective Shield ill run Stabilized Armor and instead of Self-Regulating Defense ill take either Protection Injection or Invigorating Speed
Having 53% damage protection while stunned can save your life in a lot of situations. And having perma vigor can make a good engi dang near immortal.
Not saying your setup is in any way wrong, that’s just how i run it lol
U have 3 blinds with static shot, smoke bomb, and vent smoke. Blinds kill this build. Protection injection and stabilizing armor should take off 53% of their DMG.
You wont find better defense and for only 20 points i always run this combo… especially with all the stunlock combos in the current meta.
My advice with Warriors is to play aggressive, If they land that skull crack it can be hard to come back but if you get the jump on them you have even more knockdowns/backs than they do. I run in with a net shot then I overcharge shot and run a circle around them with my slick shoes (love em) then i drop BoB and lay in the DPS
Whats that they dodged my net shot… o well i have another, then you block my Overcharge… here comes BoB (or PBR for those that like it)
…see where im going with this?
edited for typo
just remember to never use the autoattack okay
God I love SARCASM!
I just made a build like this last night only mine is kind of a hybrid. I went 20/20/0/30/0 for enhanced preformance and HGH, together with altruism I can stack might like a boss. I also ran a sigil of battle but for some reason it won’t proc on kit swap (fml)
I am thinking of dropping the alchemy line alltogether and going with mod ammo and SD. I do love my rifle but sometimes I just feel like looking cool with my pew pew pistols
Pistol and Shield are not bad at all in open world combat and leveling. You said your wife plays a warrior so bottom line you may now out dps her (yet) but the support you provide with EG & Healing Turret are boss. Let me give you some tips, cat post a build as I’m on my phone.
For your utilities go with
- Healing Turret: you would be surprised how great regeneration is for your warrior and with 2 water combo fields you can get so e nice healing with blast finishers (this will also create a more dynamic playstyle for the 2 of you, com boing off each other’s fields)
- Tool Kit: This will be one of the best damage kits for you, with power and crit your wrench hits hard. Also the block from #4 is great so is the pull (interrupt) from #5
- Bomb Kit or Elixer Gun: EG for more support and Bombs for nice dps & more blast finishers.
- Rocket Boots or Thumper Turret: bolth for the same reason BLAST FINISHERS the boots will give you 1 finisher and there fun as hell (mobility yum) plus a burn. The Turret gives you 3x blast finishers (tool belt, overcharge, & detonate) but little el e for pve.
Here’s the idea, you lay down fire fields (bomb kit) and blast the hell out of me for AoE might. Or lay down water fields (healing turret) and do the sale for AoE heals. Keep in mind that as a warrior if they take a hammer they have blast finishers as well, also longbow has a fire field!
It’s a P/S build based on power & crit. Evacuee your damage will come from wrench and bombs. You have a ton of utility (combo fields regeneration ect) and blocks up the wazoo. And the most important reason is it’s fun to time combos if your playing in a group!
If I’m going to run bunker build I’ll go 10/0/10/20/30 taking stabilized armor, protection injection, backpack regenerator, armor mods and leg mods.
If I’m running a zerker build I always take protection injection because it’s only a 10 pt investment, it’s not a matter of if BR is better I simply don’t have the extra points available in my build.
LoS is far more important than builds/traits.
I just love bombs so my style is a lot like the post above me, LoS all the range until they stack into a ball and AoE down. Just watch the claimer KD is a death sentence.