Guild Wars 2

RyuDragnier.9476:

I do know the best suggestion I’ve heard for dealing with this…make it so there’s a lockbox next to each trait, even if you already have them unlocked on your main. The lockbox determines whether or not you’ve completed the task for the skill. Make it so that as long as you’ve completed the task for that skill, the lock ‘unlocks’, signifying you’ve unlocked the trait that has that requirement ACROSS THE ENTIRE ACCOUNT.

What this does is it allows people to explore the world, and after unlocking a trait, all characters will have access to that trait. For example, say I’ve completed the story mode for Honor of the Waves on my Elementalist for Water XI. I already have a Ranger at level 80, who hasn’t obtained all the traits yet, and is missing Nature Magic XI. By completing HotW story on my Elementalist, the Nature Magic XI trait unlocks on my Ranger as well since it’s the exact same requirement.

This too will most likely be ignored or glossed over, I mean look at world exploration. It’s still required to go pvp in order to complete it after 2 years even by PVEers that don’t want legendaries and we’re still being required to do that.

The traits system columns I think should be unlocked for all characters on accounts that have a level 80 already so that it doesn’t harm players with alts but I don’t think they’ll actually do anything constructive like this at this point. Even the CDIs have stopped which brought some of us back hoping for a better experience.

Draknar.5748:

tigirius.9014:

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

the two things that are directly from WoW and are just as horrible:
1.) gear grind, you might not have to do an insane dungeon to hope for a drop but then again, you have a better chance of getting the gear trough a drop then to farm for it like in GW2.
2.) gear centric, one thing GW1 did perfectly right but GW2 did horribly wrong is to make gear the top priority as it is in WoW, it should’ve bin a cosmetic thing and nothing else.

I love this post. In WoW even before they went casual it was possible to get a few pieces of currency and buy a piece of armor without spending years in the same dungeon. I tried myself to get even the AC things (you would think since it’s one of the first dungeons players encounter it would be quick to do a single run and then get a reward but no.) we barely made it with a good team and two guards. What gets me is the tiny bit of currency. I went out to see what I could get with it. Absolutely nothing. Is it any wonder why people preferred crafting in this title to running dungeons early on?

Agree with you on the stats thing. When they announced early on that it might be cosmetic only I thought AWESOME! that would be a real change. but alas no. Last minute decisions in the wrong directions/lack of knowledge of mmo development history seems to be this game’s problem.

I’m sure the hundreds if not thousands of players with tons of Ascalon tokens would beg to differ. AC is one of the easiest, if not the easiest dungeon to complete and get tokens from. It’s one of the most farmed dungeons because it is so easy.

Whatever group you ran it with may not have been as good as you think they were. Play with an actual good team and you will be flooded with more tokens than you can shake a fist at.

You mean all be zerker and stack which is a mechanic that they changed in multiple dungeons just recently with their unannounced patch notes? The point is (which you missed) that this game not only was supposed to be NOT about dungeons but it’s following a very old system of too many currencies (one per dungeon) and it’s also following a rather terrible version of the earliest dungeon currency system which other games have evolved into much better systems. It’s sad when the game mentioned above, actually has more diversity than GW2 when it comes to rewards. The 2 currencies used in WoW are what’s used for everything from armor upgrades to new skins, and guess what, you don’t have to run a single dungeon to gather them which is exactly what I expected this game to be when i heard multiple interviews with the devs during beta.

We got something entirely different instead.

This not only follows the horrible PVP centric designs of early Aion (and we all saw how well that worked) but it also doesn’t improve the precursor/economy/legendary situation in the store.

We were told we’d have some kind of scavenger hunt, not a pvp centric requirement to even qualify for something that magic find should provide even occasionally on accounts with large amounts of gameplay hours.

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

the two things that are directly from WoW and are just as horrible:
1.) gear grind, you might not have to do an insane dungeon to hope for a drop but then again, you have a better chance of getting the gear trough a drop then to farm for it like in GW2.
2.) gear centric, one thing GW1 did perfectly right but GW2 did horribly wrong is to make gear the top priority as it is in WoW, it should’ve bin a cosmetic thing and nothing else.

I love this post. In WoW even before they went casual it was possible to get a few pieces of currency and buy a piece of armor without spending years in the same dungeon. I tried myself to get even the AC things (you would think since it’s one of the first dungeons players encounter it would be quick to do a single run and then get a reward but no.) we barely made it with a good team and two guards. What gets me is the tiny bit of currency. I went out to see what I could get with it. Absolutely nothing. Is it any wonder why people preferred crafting in this title to running dungeons early on?

Agree with you on the stats thing. When they announced early on that it might be cosmetic only I thought AWESOME! that would be a real change. but alas no. Last minute decisions in the wrong directions/lack of knowledge of mmo development history seems to be this game’s problem.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

NewTrain.7549:

penatbater.4710:

More than 6 months ago, people were also claiming gw2 is gonna loose people because of this and that. At that point, I had to quit not because of the game, but work, real life stuff. Recently I tried playing. And from the numbers I see in dungeons or wvw, it seems it hasn’t gone down much tbh. These “gw2 is gonna loose players if they don’t do A, or B, or C” serve as a poor attempt for suggesting what could be better done for the game. It’s more of a whine really, when their suggestions aren’t done/haven’t happened.

Did you take into account that 6 months ago there were no megaservers (which I know don’t affect WvW or Dungeons, but come on those are instances with a fixed population cap and completely useless in judging population health)? If you notice the same population patterns now, after the megaserver merge, that indicates a massive hemorrhaging of players.

Now you have gone and done it! You used logic and math to disprove his point. ;-)

I myself have noticed even with megaservers that even mid areas are completely empty most days. I guess since they nerfed all open world farming everyone is in Eotm.

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

quite the opposite, its disproportionate because one group of people (farmers) play content thats more profitable then other content. Prices are relative to income. If I am a farmer and make 15g per hour buying say the dragon jade wall skin for 70g means i need to farm about 5hrs… If I a non farmer who make maybe 50s an hour want to buy the same skin I need to play for 140 hrs to be able to afford it.

The crux of the matter is that 70g isnt something set in stone, its a price people are asking and people ask that much because other people are willing to pay for it and other people are willing to pay for it because they find it reasonable price to ask. What price is reasonable however is very extremely different between a farmer and someone who doesnt farm.

How do you fix that? well by nerfing farming so farming isnt that much more expensive then doing anything else. If both groups of players did 50s an hour then that 70g will inevitably drop to something much more reasonable.

No they list those prices not because that’s what people are willing to pay, but because that’s 1 step lower than the last guy. You’re leaving out and entire demographic that would exist had they not stopped farmers from performing their function in the game that they’ve successfully performed for years without any interference from developers at all, which is the undercut.

The prices we see today are directly due to two forces, nerfs to farming thus causing many legit farmers (you know those they claimed they accept and didn’t want DR to affect) to completely leave the game, and gold that comes from the vapor system of gem store conversion.

In 9 months you cannot tell me that the prices will not be higher than they are now (at least not with any honesty) while those two forces continue to work on the economy unchecked.

Lowering the ability of certain drops artificially increases their prices because there aren’t as many available AND farmers who can’t get rewards for normal gameplay will go elsewhere lowering the number of TP posters. It’s an endless process. I watched from head start to 1 year later, the prices for items everyone needs in the store increase 400%, all due to DR, nerfs to farming, players leaving in disgust lowering number of posts to the economy.

Most people don’t like to admit it but the majority of mmo players play mmos because of the feeling of being rewarded. Where do you think “Ding” from leveling came from? It’s why end game should not be so stifled in rewards or you invariably ALWAYS lose players. Losing/unhappy players = fewer sales = fewer updates/content patches.

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

quite the opposite, its disproportionate because one group of people (farmers) play content thats more profitable then other content. Prices are relative to income. If I am a farmer and make 15g per hour buying say the dragon jade wall skin for 70g means i need to farm about 5hrs… If I a non farmer who make maybe 50s an hour want to buy the same skin I need to play for 140 hrs to be able to afford it.

The crux of the matter is that 70g isnt something set in stone, its a price people are asking and people ask that much because other people are willing to pay for it and other people are willing to pay for it because they find it reasonable price to ask. What price is reasonable however is very extremely different between a farmer and someone who doesnt farm.

How do you fix that? well by nerfing farming so farming isnt that much more expensive then doing anything else. If both groups of players did 50s an hour then that 70g will inevitably drop to something much more reasonable.

And once again the stigma starts. Farmers are not the problem, the economic model is the problem.

Please please educate yourself a bit more before posting nonsense that’s not only been disproven time and time again by other game examples in history, but is also a form of gamer bigotry. Farmers used to be celebrated players because they provided a service that other people didn’t want to do and the market unmanipulated solved it’s own problems with undercutting. It’s happened that way for years in not just one but hundreds of games.

Lord of Rings.5371:

Just play GW2 for fun when you have time.

Have fun dude.

Some people’s fun is the prospect of getting rewards for in game activities, when those rewards are missing or extremely cheapened by the economic model, it destroys that type of player’s fun. Where do you think constructs like the “Ding” for leveling came from in the first place?

Kal Spiro.9745:

Astralporing.1957:

tigirius.9014:

Karizee.8076:

That’s incorrect. The gem to gold conversion does not add gold to the economy, it is players trading gold they earned from the game. It actually acts as a gold sink in the economy, by way of a built in transaction fee.

No you are incorrect. When you buy gems with real life money and you purchase gold that gold comes from vapor.

It is untrue, according to devs the gold is deducted from the pool that all the players transferring gold to gems have created.

This is only, actually, true, if it were possible to exhaust that supply. If the Gem conversion could literally run out of Gems or Gold, such that no more transactions in that direction were possible, then there is an actual pool of some kind. I am fairly certain the current stat of the conversion economy is the way it is because that’s not true. The prices only go up, like gas.

This can be seen in Neverwinter where the supply of Zen, their version of Gems, has been exhausted. There is no Zen for sale, and hundreds of thousands of people looking to buy it. But then, in that game the transaction is actually player driven. Rather than buying Gems from the game and selling them to the game, they buy and sell Zen directly from other players, through the game.

Exactly. In STO it’s the same way there have been times when the direction in STO was so bad that the conversion economy became so scarce that the prices skyrocketed and it was an emergency situation for the devs. They knew that if they didn’t make major improvements in the game quickly that the game’s economy would crash and that the game itself would lose lots of players. This happened in D3 where 60% of the players suddenly vanished all at once when things like their own version of DR was put in place to limit the amount of drops from enemies that players could farm (because their economy demanded grinding as well at the time).

This is the same old system. Economically we’ve seen it before, do not be fooled by the gem store conversion because that is immaterial, nerf after nerf after nerf to activities to that provide gold outside of Eotm (which used to be in WvW mind you) has been a thing now for a long long time, add to that recent unmentioned changes to the dungeons (the only other means of making gold) and you’ve got a clear and present system of preventing players from gaining wealth from gameplay.

6 months ago we were told there would be a complete revamp of the rewards system. Still haven’t seen that one have you? I don’t understand how people cannot see the truth of this problem. Whenever there is ever an economy in a game where the developer wants you to spend more real money in the store to buy things you get in the game no matter how normal it looks it always always ends up making the game less fun because in order to prevent people from just playing the game and actually improving sales of the currency in the store one must limit the rewards, which as any game psychologist will tell you, is the KEY reason why people play games. To feel rewarded.

I don’t know about you but when i complete a map I don’t feel particularly rewarded. 5 silver, a piece of armor that looks like the whites I find so it doesn’t even have visual value, and some achievement points I can’t spend directly (unlike other achievement systems in other games where there is an achievement store) just doesn’t feel like it’s a game anymore. If that’s all you have to look forward to when you login it’s just not fun. And yes other people play for other reasons and that’s fine but the majority of players play to feel rewarded and when that feeling isn’t there they search for it elsewhere.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Everything I did say about the TP vs direct drops boils down to this line of you “TP will always be the path of least resistance especially for items with high enough supply”.

When you place almost all items behind specific content with it’s own rng and you have enough of content with it’s own rewards, it will mean the price will go up because the TP is not getting so many of those items as there is demand for it.

With general world drops (what we have now and also you lvl 60 gear example) or other content a lot of people all jump on to, or simply rewards nobody wants you will indeed get many items on the TP and so that will be the way of least resistance.

Also don’t forget grinding gold is NOT the preferred game-play for most people. But if it’s the path of least resistance they will indeed start doing it anyway (resulting in boredomness). Also for many items it’s the only / required ingame-way to get them because so many items are on the TP.

If it comes to gold (that GW2 forces people to grind for many items), people where doing 3 things. Grinding bosses, grinding champions and grinding dungeons because they tent to have the best general loot or gold. The specific rewards (as far as they had them) where by-products so they still overflow the TP. You want to base content mainly one a specific reward not on generally good content and you want to do that all over the place.

One huge problem… We already have that situation right now. Plenty of rare materials people require has a low drop rate like say lodestones. Now we all due respect you yourself argue that getting these items via drops is impossible that you have to buy them off TP. Even if we go with items that have a much lower drop rate like say precursors do you think people who need a precursor farm for it by doing the designed to drop it such as crafting and throwing stuff in the mystical forge or killing mobs ? or do they farm the gold and buy it off TP ?

The only way to have people go do the content itself is literally to force them to do the content itself. This isnt a novel concept, soul bound items where created for this very reason. If you want the best in other mmos you have to work for it and there will always be a new best you need to work for around the corner.

But probably worst then all this is for your idea to work (ie a very bad TP supply) the item drop would need to be really really really low. We’re probably talking ascended gear drop low. I am pretty sure people will never go for that. Just look at when Anet introduced ascended gear crafting. Ancient wood logs jumped in price to 9s each if not more. 9s!!!! I could farm 144+ logs in 30 mins yet people were paying 9s just to get the thing done as quickly as possible.

Farming right now is disproportionately highly rewarding so given the choice people will always choose gold as their primary means of acquisition. Taking away the choice is an option but one that has other issues.

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

Paddy.3985:

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

If you want gear treadmills and constant raids that replace everything before it every few months. Yes, you are indeed. This game does have endgame content but it’s quite a bit different than most other MMOs. PvP and WvW are basically it. If you are a pver exclusively then there is going to be little for you to do endgame wise other than the LS every few weeks, and that takes… a day or so to finish off.

Does anyone else find it funny that these types of posters don’t see the parallels in this game and other games? Is it just me or are others out there seeing this? Like how can you miss that the very thing this game has become, is indeed a gear treadmill, with the same delay tactics like grinding, that other games have used for years? How does one not see that seriously? Like you can look at the history of this game in the patch notes and in the announcements and follow how when where it became a gear treadmill with a long grind how it’s more profitable to run dungeons (thus the dungeon focus people speak of) how this and the temporary nature of LS has made this game dungeon focused, and how really the only activities left after it’s all said and done is to just login grind out gold or achieve points or do your dailies/guild runs at interval.

I’ve made suggestions to folks to take their posts to reddit. From the very beginning it seems the devs and the people in charge are only interested in what’s said there. If we open threads in reddit about the economy, the traits system, the lack of trinity, the low diversity, the imbalance they are more apt to see it there and it would reach a wider audience out there so they’d see these issues as well.

I’ve been posting for 2 years about the trait imbalance with engineers most recently about the condition removal imbalance and nothing has been done.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If the runes are valuable and the old armor wasn’t bought with karma or badges, salvage the old armor with a Black Lion Salvage Kit and apply them to the new armor.

If they aren’t particularly valuable (and most runes aren’t), buy them again.

This works for crafted armor but like many have pointed out Karma armor isn’t. At the same time, the runes that most people use due to the serious lack of interest in even their own trinity and their own diversity, most people are building zerker builds and as we’ve all seen those are getting more expensive by the day.

(Moved my message here) I absolutely agree with everything 1 post above. I’ve demonstrated in multiple threads how the turrets are weak and slow. I’ve demonstrated how many traits we are missing that other classes enjoy, and how cooldowns are everything but equal when it comes to turrets and other class pets/summons/traps/aoe fields, and how pickups don’t work properly.

One other thing that bothers me is the manual way in which we are stuck with condition removal. The CD on overloads is too long. Other classes enjoy multiple automatic interval removal systems from traits and skills while we have to wait 15 seconds. As such I have to actually combine 3 points in elixir and the turret just to have enough condi removal to match other classes and even that has a longer CD. (from what I’ve experienced it’s even a 15 second wait time on Transmute. They did improve it’s chance of occuring but imo it’s still not on par with other classes AND it’s not expandable so we can’t for example extend it to other players in a support role unlike the other classes.

Some would argue that we can with the overload but like I pointed out there’s a time differential on top of this being a manual operation and on top of the inherent weakness of the turret we have to contend with waiting 5 seconds longer than any other class.

I think they need to make this turret have as much health as the thumper, have as much armor and resistance to AOEs as if we already had the traits activated to improve these things without the need to activate those traits so that this wouldn’t be an issue anylonger because just as Rangers need the damage from their pets so to do engineers need the healing from this turret.

It’s either that or they listen to a brilliant and tested suggestion that has saved summons/pets in general from AOE attacks in every game (which they once admitted was a serious problem even in WvW and thought to nerf AOEs in general as I recall) and buckle down with giving all pets/summons a 90% immunity to AOE damage types. This would solve the entire problem with pets in this game in a single application. Like I said it’s been done in multiple other titles and has worked out very well improving pet classes entirely across the board. The one acception to this would be the duplicates of the mesmer as they don’t have this issue (I know I played one).

Or they could improve our condition removal choices entirely by making a trait that removes conditions at an interval while under the affects of regeneration which would solve the condition removal choice problems this class has since we don’t have signets as a good alternative.

Basaltface.2786:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Basaltface.2786:

The healing turret… man. I dont know why you give that poor thing so much kitten. Its probably the most helpfull turret you can have (as non turret engineer). Since the patch it got a smaller hitbox and if you trait it right you got a shield bubble with it and\or vigor. I invested not really much into anything turret related and i still need to ask myself HOW i managed to play without it. If set up aoe regen, aoe condi clean, aoe healing AND as neat little bonus another aoe regen from the toolbelt ability and its all practically in your heal skill slot (if you use it). Seriosly… this thing is a mighty fine healer. Needless to say that you can also nuke it while you are stunned or knocked on the floor. And if you trait some explosives you can even literally use it to nuke the enemie while healing yourself. If you use the turret to its fullest potential its cooldown is fair aswell. I mean come on what more do you want?

No one is saying the skill is bad. Like you said, it’s arguably the best all-around healing skill engineers have.

It is, however, in my opinion, one of the most poorly designed skills in the game. It is healing “turret”, yet the optimal way to use it is to not treat it like a turret. Letting is sit out there and spin its regen around, “skillfully” timing the overcharge when needed, and making it something worth defending all sound nice on paper, but none of those are the proper way to use the skill. You set it out, use the overcharge immediately, then either pick it up or pop it in the water field. If you use it like it was actually designed to be used, you can seriously compromise your ability to heal yourself and your allies.

The other turrets generally have incentive to be left out. They’ll deal damage, CC the opponent, or give you other types of combo fields. But the healing turret has no true incentive to leave deployed. It’s perhaps a better option if you’re using experimental turrets since it can give party vigor. But even then, you are sacrificing healing potential.

It’s also extremely confusing to new players. I’ve seen various people while leveling who drop the turret before engaging a pack of mobs, and then kiting them back towards the turret so the thing can keep apply its regen. They’re doing exactly what the skill is telling them to do, but they don’t realize that it’s simply more optimal to use it as a simple burst heal skill instead of leaving it out and potentially having it broken by some mob.

In fact, I believe I remember there being a discussion on the State of the Game steam with Jonathan Sharp about the changes they made to the healing turret that made it into its current form. It was all about how the new turret would work great as a persistent source of healing that you would want to have deployed while besieging a tower, and how the health of the turret is possibly a bit to low, and how about enemies would possibly want to prioritize the turret in order to remove the group healing source, and so forth… Well, none of that ever came into play at all. It’s because the optimal way to use the turret is to not use it as a turret. That’s why I call it a glorified water bomb.

So yeah, good heal skill, poor design. If they want to make it be worthwhile as an actual turret, they’d have to change how it works. However, I think people would actually dislike that since it might make the healing “turret” an overall less effective healing skill… although maybe if a few of the other ones were buffed a bit *COUGH*A.E.D.COUGH, then it wouldn’t be such a bad thing.

Yea i see your point but actually i find myself “preparing” the turret if i expect an in coming horde… like for example AC dungeon. Since the patch ya cant stack anymore for the spider queen hence why i really just put the turret a little bit away from the queen and leave it standing, fight in its field and if the spider queen immobilises me (or anybody of my group) i just “overheat” it and done is the condi issue. I really dont use any traits to improve turrets cause besides the healer i dont really bother with them… BUT i do need to say that the healer can handle quite some abuse and can be left alone for a while without any issues. In fact it only happened ONCE in the 3 runs i did today that the queen actually decided to bother with the turret… cant say the same for the small ones but they couldnt even take half of its health down before we where done. The only times i really hate to leave the healer standing somewhere is at bosses or enemies with very strong attacks (like for example the asura fractal ogre and fire shaman). These guys will certainly destroy it when you dont want them to do it. Well to come to a point.. yea healer turret is a water bomb at many situations but put some trust into the little fellar.. he can deal with a lot

Absolutely agree

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

-Resolution-
As all other classes clearly have concepts that either follow them, can be moved, or have extremely low recharges we can see exactly how the engi actually does suffer from inadequacy

Thank you and I would further point out that it’s not limited to turrets, and the instakill mechanics that Engineer healers have to deal with but we are missing traits that other classes take for granted for everything from automatic interval condition removal to burst DPS options that other scout classes possess and don’t have to think about.

I went over some of the things missing from the list of traits available to even sister classes (scouts) that Engineers don’t have the options for
HERE and even tho I left out things like automatic condition removal it’s sad to say here we’re coming up on the 2 year mark and this class is effectively still in beta, still weaker than the other classes, and still behind. What’s even worse is that they are still using the age old system of adding mechanics only to make them useless against bosses so seriously there’s been 0 learning here in the 2 years this game has been out considering this is what they did to destroy the usefulness of CC, healing, condition builds early on in the game. What am I talking about? Reflects on turrets don’t affect open world boss missiles any longer. I mean I guess it wasn’t enough that it had a delay before the shield goes up (unlike other classes who’s skills are instant) they had to make it useless too in boss fights.

So it makes you wonder really, why create skills and effects that you’ll simply make useless later? Why have them at all? Why have pets at all when they are just going to die instantly from a single hit? Why make the claim that it doesn’t matter which class you bring to the fight because they are all equal when you know they aren’t? those would be my questions if I were to sit down to an interview at this point.

Karizee.8076:

tigirius.9014:

nethykins.7986:

Test.8734:

tigirius.9014:

I too find it amusing how somehow farmers have been made to be the badguys

Because THIS…

tigirius.9014:

it costs thousands of gold to buy a single legendary or 500 gold for a skin

…Is the FARMERS’ fault. The farmers’ and the TP PLAYERS. Without EITHER of those, NO ONE would have THOUSANDS of gold, ergo NOTHING would be so EXPENSIVE.

If GW2 had NO farmers, the game would be MUCH, MUCH better for everyone ELSE.

You’ve obviously not considered there’s every possibility that the price would skyrocket if less farmers existed.

Farmers often help curb that spike between supply and demand.
If there are terrible drop rates in game and you at least want a chance to purchase something on the TP, then you’re more likely to get that item if farmers constantly…well…farm it. That ends up getting farmers trying to undercut each other for a sale.

- The more farmers there are, the more there are on TP, the lower the price gets.
- The less farmers there are, the less on the TP and the more expensive it’ll get.

While I’m not saying this is the be all-end all of farmers and the TP, but it’s definitely not just Black and White as you assume.

Uhm he’s also leaving out one major factor which is the REAL source of the problem. All of the outside gold coming in from the gem to gold conversion. That produces gold that wasn’t in the market in the first place and any 1st year economist will tell you this alone will drive up prices faster and is more dangerous than any other internal economic system.

That’s incorrect. The gem to gold conversion does not add gold to the economy, it is players trading gold they earned from the game. It actually acts as a gold sink in the economy, by way of a built in transaction fee.

No you are incorrect. When you buy gems with real life money and you purchase gold that gold comes from vapor. This system is not like STO or NWO it creates gold from thin air. This gold does not come from other players. When headstart began the system gave you gold when you transfered gems that system has not changed. When STO NWO began their markets only have currency in them to trade when other players put that there. Thus this system creates gold out of thin air that was never in the market to begin with never earned by other players.

Thus the prices will continue to rise continuously until it crashes the market if left unchanged which is another reason why we keep seeing nerfs to known farming sites and to known sources of in game income and new forms of gold sinks.

Asked for WvW to be removed as a requirement for world completion for PVE and for those who didn’t want legendaries just after the game launched, it ended up in their suggestion forum trashcan along with lots and lots of other suggestions. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Skritt actually LOL I can just imagine how annoying that would be if there were a Skritt thief in PVP for some

Liewec.2896:

using other broken AI as an example is not a good reason to buff another (already broken) AI build, turret engis are already ridiculously strong at holding a point.

Afraid of some real balance choices that might actually bring this class up to par with others I see. This is very typical of the attitude towards this class has been for 2 years now. Maybe one day people will stop stigmatizing it but I fear that day will be long long time from now with far fewer players.

Belzebu.3912:

tigirius.9014:

And you do realize that all of the updates they did for LS were not what they had originally planned were not permanent and did not change the face of Tyria for very long save for 2 right?

Right, I agree with you.
But you asked for focus in Open World, and the LS always focused there, I’m not saying that those updates was any good or anything (LS1 was ok at best), but the focus was there, you have to agree.

tigirius.9014:

Thus it wasn’t what we were told the updates to the open world would be

I really don’t remember what was promised about open world updates, can you link or just write what the devs originally promised?

About Fractals and Ascended gear, well … MMOs are huge projects, it is impossible to plan everything from the very beginning, I know they planed that exotic would be the “ultimate” tier and they thought that get full exotic gear would be hard and now they released the ascended to cover that hole, that happens.

The problem isn’t that they needed to plan from the beginning the problem is 2 months in they didn’t even keep the promises they made in interviews they were doing during the Beta weekends just before headstart. That’s the problem. People love to keep bringing up the manifesto it’s not even that, it’s things that were said that made casuals like me buy this thing only to find out after that it would become a gear treadmill with a permanent dungeon focus with grinding as a thing.

That’s not what I paid for and I’m sure other casuals would agree. And the open world focus I was talking about was about adding new permanent metas/DEs monthly to every zone even if it were only 1 per zone per month that would have been miles better than the system we have now.

Imagine having a timer on your pets as a ranger, you put him away or try to switch and you have to wait 36 seconds before you can use him again. Then when you do manage to get him to show again manually and he’s stationary, then you tell him to use his skills and all of them have a 4 second delay before they go off and when he uses a skill the mob moves before it can go off thus missing. Then a mob uses an AOE with a particularly large field and your pet dies instantly.

This is what Engineer turrets are like for those of you who’ve never played one. Now explain to us again how they are balanced and this is perfectly fine?

kschmidt.5901:

I think the turret overcharge ability should be made to fire when you activate the ability, instead of queuing up for the next attack. This would give turrets a lot more interactivity as you’d now be able to time critical things like interrupts from them. This is similar to the ranger pet change. It is frustrating to hit the overcharge ability and then have to wait.

Completely agree. It needs to be instant just like other classes have had some of their skills changed to instant.

Healing turret, turret shields, bombs. These delays don’t improve gameplay nor do they serve any function other than to keep this class weaker than the rest in PVE.

They need to eliminate the delay for many things engineers deal with, turret overload on healing turrets, the delay between exploding bombs starting with the first one (if the first one exploded immediately it wouldn’t be so noticeable) and now this. Please eliminate all delays in our skills. You eliminated them on ranger pets, the same balance requirements are needed here. Thanks.

Foefaller.1082:

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

I’m thinking if it goes in “Inventions” no one will have a problem with it. Why? “Alchemy” has “Experimental Turrets” – Couple those 2 together and you have walking boons. I don’t see a down side? And don’t say that this is OP at all – spirit ranger (as you mentioned) is the same concept.

Spirits have a finite active time before they despawn and you wait 25 seconds (3 min for nature) before you can bring them up again. they also don’t have an autoattack, or any way of dealing direct damage at all save 1 ability on 1 spirit.

However traps are all low timers and do actually do damage and apply conditions whereas there’s a timer on how slow a turret can fire which can be resisted by toughness and armor. So I don’t see your point here. The timers on engineering turrets are still extremely high. And yes I play both so I’ve experienced this first hand.

Two examples for yeah so you can see what I’m talking about. Thumper. Most engies put that on for the AOE fields and knockbacks, but wouldn’t it be great if it had the proper cooldown when you picked it up or actually did solid damage scaling to your stats? 36 seconds is hardly fair when it comes to this thing especially since enemies have to be right on top of you and these things die so quickly from AOEs that in PVP I’ve seen engies put this down to knockback a foe they get one knockback off before some OP AOE skill comes along and bam 36 second wait time AGAIN, meanwhile that fire trap and the torch AOE field that ranger puts down both applies a condition AND has a tick per second while inside the fire and has a seriously swift cooldown time on both. I play one of those too I know.

There are multiple other examples I can show you to prove that these classes are not on par with one another and that indeed their is either the balance team doesn’t play this class enough to compair or they take into account the actual quantity of players who play this class when “balancing” (it being low of course) not realizing that because it’s not balanced it’s therefor troublesome to play which perpetuates the low population.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

tigirius.9014:

Engi in PVE is definitely NOT on par with the rest of the classes it is in a good spot but it’s still heavily limited, turrets still weaksauce, healing options not on par with other classes in traits, the usefulness of gadgets to bring them up to the usefulness of summoned weapons for example still not there even with the traits.

One of the major problems I’m finding is the tiny size of the explosions we use, my 2 hander has a wider swing than my bomb kits even when traited and the new bunker down trait is just as terribly small the enemies have to be right on top of me literally which has been the problem with the mines from traits and from gadgets all along in PVE but no one’s addressed them properly. Same old story imo.

You realize the bomb radius is WAY bigger than the melee cleave radius? They just have a small auto-attack range so you have to press the butotn manually. You have to do that to connect with a melee auto at max range too though.

Actually no i don’t because I play both and I can see visually how they are different. I play a guard, a ranger, and a thief all with swords/gs and guess what, it’s not on par.

Neither is the condition removal capabilities or the cooldowns on the summons timers. I pickup a turret and I expect the timer to be no longer than a spirit cooldown of 20 seconds, these things aren’t instakill machines in PVE and usually don’t last long enough to do much.

It’s like the condition removal overload, it takes 15 seconds between overloads that we manually have to press where my ranger has not one but two 10 second removal systems that he doesn’t even have to think about.

And don’t get me started on the mines that enemies can to the macarena on and never setoff making bunker down a bit less than useless in PVE doesn’t matter the size either, and these things push mobs back too which doesn’t help with the placement of the next one. I literally stood below a giant with my bomb kit once, think he setoff all of the mines I was placing with Bunker Down? nope.

People seriously must be talking about PVP because turrets are everything but op in PVE, they don’t even make the cooldowns on par with pets/summons/traps of other classes even when we pick them up. Even the healing turret has an extra 5 full seconds to wait between condition removal sprays compared to the automatic 10 second interval options for other classes, and can be hit anywhere. It’s like mobs home in on where the turret is and attacks it first even through solid walls.

Not sure why considering my ranger has a pet that created a healing mist field.

been asking for this for 2 years now man. They can’t even make the timers when we pick these things up on par with the timers for traps, rune fields, summons or spirits. I really don’t think anyone plays this class on the dev side of things.

Even the removal of conditions isn’t on par in timing with other classes automatic removal system, we have to wait 15 seconds before trying an overload while other classes have not one but 2 sets of 10 second cooldown automatic removal options.

tried putting mine behind things in PVE still the same result. Those walls do nothing to block attacks that are ranged they just go right through and hit the thing anyways. It’s like not only do they want it to be useless as a regen machine but they want it to explode constantly no matter what you do. Oh and isn’t it fun when you have the elite version that you CAN’T Overload?!?? sigh smh

havok.1528:

tigirius.9014:

Azhure.1857:

Devata.6589:

DR should not be felt by players, only by bots.

…and the people that are begging to play like bots.

Uhm absolutely not. Stop being part of the problem. Legit farmers are not the issue, they never have been. It’s a stigma that’s oddly solely been propagated here in this title. I’ve not seen it in any other game, not even the sub and F2P games I play off and on.

If the community wants to blame anything for the pricing in the TP blame the gold that’s coming in from outside sources, like Gem sales. This “Farmers should all go play something else because they are the devil” nonsense needs to go.

Let me also say that DR has removed exactly 0 bots since it was put into the game, exactly like all of the other historical counts of it’s use in mmo’s and other multiplayer pc games. If we took into account their reasoning for placing it in the game, it’s failed miserably as a gold seller prevention system.

Disagree, I have seen less bots since DR was introduced.

It’s logical that no DR = more botting.

Tell that to all the gold sellers in the main cities who spam people a million times a minute. Seriously, you’re missing out on all the bot fun, or the ones in the frozen north that have never really gone away.

Their still here, DR did nothing, and it’s not limited to this game the evidence has a long history.

rincewind.9528:

Why people want to do the game more frustrating?

I’m already on the edge. This past few days I’m triying to beat the cursed Liadri. Oh, boy, I ragequited so many times.
And you want to do it MORE frustrating?

Why!?

Why can’t we have a relaxed and fun game? Why everything must be hard and mean?

Not sure why myself. Let’s see. They already destroyed two of the bosses Teq and Wurm for casuals because someone wanted “raids”, they were advocates for keeping DR even tho it hasn’t gotten rid of a single bot, and they enjoyed having a eastern style grind for a gear treadmill they complained about not having enough gear in the game early on or enough dungeons (so fractals were made). I think they need to be satisfied with how they distorted this title. And to think they say that casuals are the problem when really we just want the game we paid for.

Reverence.6915:

PvE was always designed for the lowest common denominator. You will rarely get challenging PvE content since they’ll be abandoned by the majority of players (TA Aetherblades… it’s so hard to get a party for that even with cross-server LFG). The skillset is just fine for most classes. Just warriors seem to have an extremely faceroll, mash 1, autoattack on and afk type skill set. Other classes have to manage boons, cooldowns and weapon sets to maximise dps (and in the case of engi and ele, your f1-f4 abilities changing your skillset/playstyle).

There’s no real difficult end-game content in PvE because it was intended to be that way. If you want a challenge, go WvW (in a high tier server) or sPvP.

I beg to differ, there are always a slow start in every game yes and there will always be certain things that most devs leave out however, I haven’t played a game in a very very long time that did absolutely so little to actually balance their own PVE system.

Pets are weak, roles are missing entirely (even their own which is sad), trait choices are highly biased just as downed state skills. It’s amazing that people haven’t complained more honestly.

I don’t understand what the problem is, anyone who’s played these classes for 5 minutes and traited anything can see that there are missing elements in many of the classes that should be universal as far as options are concerned, no wonder diversity doesn’t exist it’s like bricks are missing from the foundation and then people wonder why the wall fell.

We’ve given them years of suggestions now it’s time for change. I know I’ve been patient enough. It’s absolutely true that there is an AI problem but for pets and summons they need immunity to AOE damage it’s been a problem in every mmo since the first digital dawn.

Roles need to be a thing, there needs to be CC, actual Healers, and Condition damage needs to have crits that matter and be given longer up times across the board, all condition applier spells need only apply conditions when the player has grandemaster level traits in condition damage lines, and Zerker needs to have conditions removed entirely from every spell until they spec for conditions. That way the stacking problem won’t be so bad in large groups. I’d also like for conditions to turn into other types when they reach a certain level, like 10 bleeds into a deep wounds. Nothing should be immune to CC. And healing should actually scale properly so that the #1 skills heal properly.

Pet AIs need to think about where they are standing so they too can move from an AOE field in time to not be hit.

And finally, we need a system that doesn’t put mechanics into the game and then make the bosses immune to them. Seriously, we just got reflects on turrets and what happens next? Wurm gets immune to reflects. Seriously? Why is that happening and why is that a policy that’s continued? We have these skills for these very reasons we should be able to make use of them otherwise it will become just another ignored trait for the pile.

Okay let me just point out something right now as an Engineer, until everyone gets on board about getting them to equalize the system so that “no class is left behind in combat” and “it doesn’t matter which class you bring to the battle” at no time should anything be made more difficult.

Because not all classes are treated equally in PVE when it comes to boons, condition removal, or downed states. And not all roles are where they should be CC, Healing and Condition damage are all very weak. Not to mention pets/summons are terrible in this game.

Belzebu.3912:

tigirius.9014:

1. open world focus (where one never had to enter a dungeon for anything)

You do realize that every update from the living story focus in open world and the rest of the game barely get any update, so that already happens.

And you do realize that all of the updates they did for LS were not what they had originally planned were not permanent and did not change the face of Tyria for very long save for 2 right? Thus it wasn’t what we were told the updates to the open world would be, in fact Fractals were never meant to be originally, neither was Ascended to go with Fractals. I would count those two as really big content updates into the game that really weren’t meant to be in there and thus took away development time that could have been put into the open world for a more permanent content setting. As it is when the new system loads it will have none of the previous LS updates in it only capturing the ones from the time it launches onward. So it’s still not what we were buying.

Azhure.1857:

Devata.6589:

DR should not be felt by players, only by bots.

…and the people that are begging to play like bots.

Uhm absolutely not. Stop being part of the problem. Legit farmers are not the issue, they never have been. It’s a stigma that’s oddly solely been propagated here in this title. I’ve not seen it in any other game, not even the sub and F2P games I play off and on.

If the community wants to blame anything for the pricing in the TP blame the gold that’s coming in from outside sources, like Gem sales. This “Farmers should all go play something else because they are the devil” nonsense needs to go.

Let me also say that DR has removed exactly 0 bots since it was put into the game, exactly like all of the other historical counts of it’s use in mmo’s and other multiplayer pc games. If we took into account their reasoning for placing it in the game, it’s failed miserably as a gold seller prevention system.

I’m afraid that if you gear your ranger and if it’s not Zerker even without it being Zerker you’ll be met with discrimination in some cases. It’s happening all over again. Play what you like to play but expect that there will be some bad apples until they fix combat roles that is.

LOL

The reason I’m laughing, is have you seen the only option for engineers?

Quip

Talk about bad imagery. And that’s if we’re not forced to use a build that requires a kit, which is the reason why I’ve not pursued this at all.

Some of us simply want the game we were paying for.

1. open world focus (where one never had to enter a dungeon for anything)
2. metas/DEs added monthly to every zone, and stayed there.
3. removal of DR so that if you chose you could actually play as a legit farmer without stigma
4. the restoration/balance of all roles in PVE (CC, Healing, Condition builds)
5. the restriction of all Ascended armor to fractal use only. (armor not weapons, because that’s what we were told it was for, fractals with agony resist requirements)
6. making the home customizeable and extremely useful, while adding elements that allow for one to be social easily
7. additions of cosmetics monthly that are not all focused in the store and won’t be restricted to make them cost 500 gold in the TP
8. the restoration of the projects that allow certain functions to occur outside of the game like the mobile/web projects (to track guildies, to see global activity timers, to craft/sell using a web interface)

I don’t think voting will solve the problem because the last time they had a vote it was on topics they pretty much controlled they had very few real concerns that the players had in the forums at the time and the development time on the concerns they did look into took a long time.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Translating the topic name:

“15€-£-$/month for Super Duper Easy Easy Farmer Joe mode, because achievements and really playing a game is for losers!
Break the game economy by flooding it with now worthless rare materials that were rare before, because of the evil Diminishing Returns!
Take it, it’s Eternity for 10 gold, or Twilight and Sunrise for 5 gold per legendary!
The future is now!!!”

“For another 15€-£-$/month more, and you get legal GW2 Autobot to play the game for you!!!”

That’s an oversimplification, and I do not agree with the OP’s solution. However, I should point out as someone who’s played since BWE2 that for the first two months rare materials were rare without the need for DR in the first place, and that their placing DR in the game wasn’t to change the economy it was put in there to stop bots. However again, it didn’t stop the bots and the problems it’s caused even for the normal gameplay aspects of the game have been widely ignored by the developers for whatever reason and has harmed even people who just play the game normally.

I myself have recently started experiencing a bug where boss chests/bags give me Unidentifiable Objects (greys) instead of the normal rares/exotics and it doesn’t matter the amount of magic find I have going at the time it still happens daily. I reported this over a week ago but it’s been happening to me steadily for weeks now on top of yet another bug with gathering materials where the endless and orichalcum tools often make me receive greys from the gathering nodes in the open world. Yes I’ve reported that bug as well.

So it’s definitely becoming an issue again. The last time this happened it took DR making the boxes and bags disappear entirely from open world, then it spread to the WvW, then it spread to the dungeons before something was done.

I think they need to just admit that DR didn’t do a single thing to stop bots or gold sellers and remove it. It’s not doing anyone any good.

nethykins.7986:

Test.8734:

tigirius.9014:

I too find it amusing how somehow farmers have been made to be the badguys

Because THIS…

tigirius.9014:

it costs thousands of gold to buy a single legendary or 500 gold for a skin

…Is the FARMERS’ fault. The farmers’ and the TP PLAYERS. Without EITHER of those, NO ONE would have THOUSANDS of gold, ergo NOTHING would be so EXPENSIVE.

If GW2 had NO farmers, the game would be MUCH, MUCH better for everyone ELSE.

You’ve obviously not considered there’s every possibility that the price would skyrocket if less farmers existed.

Farmers often help curb that spike between supply and demand.
If there are terrible drop rates in game and you at least want a chance to purchase something on the TP, then you’re more likely to get that item if farmers constantly…well…farm it. That ends up getting farmers trying to undercut each other for a sale.

- The more farmers there are, the more there are on TP, the lower the price gets.
- The less farmers there are, the less on the TP and the more expensive it’ll get.

While I’m not saying this is the be all-end all of farmers and the TP, but it’s definitely not just Black and White as you assume.

Uhm he’s also leaving out one major factor which is the REAL source of the problem. All of the outside gold coming in from the gem to gold conversion. That produces gold that wasn’t in the market in the first place and any 1st year economist will tell you this alone will drive up prices faster and is more dangerous than any other internal economic system.

This will require a full revamp of the combat system with several diversity tweaks:

1. a full restoration of CC, Support, Condition usefulness
2. improvement across all classes of pets/summons defenses against AOE attacks by adding a 85-90% immunity to AOEs and improvement on their AI (running out of bomb zones, turrets circles)
3. retracing the entire trait system to make sure all classes have equal access to certain defense/utility choices (such as removal of conditions, movement speed increase to 25%)
4. adding more weapon choices with multiple skill options for the bar to enhance the diversity of combat.
5. adding post max level advancement to add even more choices to the system for diversity of builds.
6. float the XIII traits so they can be placed anywhere on the grandemaster column. so they can in fact improve diversity.

Xae Isareth.1364:

In all honesty, I do actually hope GW2 gets hit with a wake up call of falling profits and player counts.

SWTOR got hit by that, had to go F2P but it meant the devs had to improve and innovate, making TOR a much better game than it was at launch.

FF14:ARR was the relaunch of a complete failure of a MMO. It’s the only MMO released in recent years that managed to stay P2P.

ESO was a flop, no doubts about that. However, since then you can see how much effort the developers are putting into expanding and improving the game. Monthly balance patches, what I wouldn’t give for that.

So if I think if GW2 can survive through a turmoil, it’ll come out golden.

The eastern players are completely different than western so what I predict is this. I predict, that the new players in the east being completely used to the grind won’t blink an eyelash. I believe they’ll grind out everything they want or pay for. I think that Anet’s profits won’t drop due to this and I believe that because of that move to China at this point in time, they’ll continue on as if nothing’s actually wrong here in the west because they will be making a profit in the east to support both. I.E. I don’t think anything’s going to change. I’m starting to look elsewhere again because of the lack of communication, the sheer ignorance of the population, and the continuous problems this style of game design produces. What’s sad is the people arguing against us are not being honest, they aren’t attacking the issues, they deny they exist, they attack people who post about them, or they marginalize it because so many people are noticing it more and more now.

Xae Isareth.1364:

tigirius.9014:

I just love the hypocrisy since when does it become a social crime to complain about the lack of updates to a product that’s supposedly on mark and making lots of money? Last I checked it wasn’t so not sure why people are even reading these threads if they don’t like them.

Incidently I don’t think it was ever their plan to actually read the forums I believe they hang out exclusively now at Reddit.

I’m not surprised. At least at Reddit, you can have a civil conversation without it descending into a whirlpool of verbal abuse.

You can almost taste the toxicity on these forums.

Well when you’ve been ignored for as long as many customers have in this game, and you’ve had many essential designs to diversity and combat balance written out of the game entirely, and you’ve witnessed the game transform from an all open world event system with great rewards into a totally grind festy gear treadmill with an economy so focused on the TP that even the simplest of skins costs 450-500 gold you get a little bitter after a while. It’s completely understandable.

Even woodenpotatoes has given them brilliant ideas in how to balance the condition stacking issues, the issues surrounding on all the time immunity to CC (defiance), and the problems that come with no real support healing skills causing people to stack in everything they do.

I’m not saying your idea isn’t a good one but I doubt seriously if anyone is watching as they are most likely over at Reddit.

Clear.8512:

This topic has been done to death.

-People have been elitist in every mmo(some who are not even elite) get over it
-Create a group yourself.
-If this is a clever way to bring up pve balance, already been done 5 times over.

No game is perfect, however, you leave out the fact that in every game other than this one, the developers always had a quick hand at eliminating much of the elitist nature by removing the design problems that caused them in the first place. That has not happened here and thus the topic will continue to not only be posted until a dev notices it’s an issue but also to inform the other players who might be new and don’t know it exists yet.

I’d prefer this:

1. They’d only require a music instrument be purchased from within game or crafted.
2. The songs involved be ABC format and all available for free elsewhere from fans.

Been through the process of buying songs and it’s not pretty when it happens. It should be free, they should have a system of autoplay or not as a choice, it should be in ABC format, and it should have a syncronization system to players can group their songplaying together.

What I wouldn’t mind tho is instruments that actually had a special effect. Like animals gathering around a flute player xD

Three suggestions to help:

1. Float XIII traits so that they will still require a Grandemaster slot but they won’t be attached to a particular trait line. They are supposed to improve diversity this will allow them to.
2. Put more scrolls into the game that allow people with 80s who have alts level. Change that level to 35 not 20. That would get them past the beginning, give them more options for more xp to level, and it will bypass those who have been through the content multiple times the ability to make alts easily.
3. Make sure all classes have the same capabilities for basic combat, like the ability to remove conditions. If one class has a timed condition removal trait all should have access to a similar trait. If one class has a 25% run speed skill all classes should have that option either in traits or skills. For example, give Engineers the same choice to have an autoremoval of 1 condition at an interval when under the affects of regeneration (which is the healing skill used most often by Engineer support builds) just like what’s available for Guardians/Rangers. If Mesmers have an ability that almost instakills an enemy to better fascilitate a Rally than Engineers’ Booby Trap should do the same kind of thing to allow a Rally.

This would balance the game properly, you’d be fulfilling the statement that no class is left behind in combat design and then you could focus your efforts on better ui updates without people complaining as much about things that should have been taken care of a year ago on class design.

Not limited to rangers sadly. If you’re playing one of the classes that doesn’t have a proper burst build option or has trouble removing conditions from itself in PVE it’s been the same old story for a very long time now.

Engineer, Ranger, Necro has been discriminated against on a regular basis. Do they hear their players about it? Nope.

Phoenixlin.8624:

Rangers are bad. Warriors did the right thing.

Never have any problems on mine, save for the instakilled pets.