Guild Wars 2

One would hope that they’d give both the mace and the staff a chance and in the process of giving them skills that use electricity for example (so that one doesn’t have to use that trait or the Fkeys to use electricity on this class with skills that don’t really help with the aiming of the electrical bolts) that they’d make it so that the staff/mace additions would have AOE skills that would help heal turrets at range in an AOE field rather than 1 monodirectional wrench toss. Or rather than a #1 skill that one must be on top of the turrets to implement a tiny bit of repairs that takes too long in most cases.

To me that would be far superior in design than just tossing together a hammer with some damage skills. We need untraited utility.

Hvaran.6327:

tigirius.9014:

Only because of the innate nature of the class. Sure that helps to be a jack of all trades and it helps especially when certain aspects of the class are nerfed or taken out entirely but it’s no fix for the problems that the balance team has created over the past 2 years for the class. We need a CDI.

I agree that engi class is inbalanced in such gameplay (and some other aspects).

I dissagree that this class is useless and all other classes are better in wvw largescale.

Do you agree that it’s high time for a CDI for the most nerfed and most beta’d class in the game?

Artasqweroldy.7458:

Here you are, as i said, that build is far from optimal, because you really need those kits… anyways, here it is:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUptrNexLLseNifBN6m0jID63FglKq7B-ThRBABXt/o8DPdAacBAA4BAQp6PmpEkUARsMC-e

Personally I would have used more blast finishers from gadgets and turrets in this build. When I tried this I used the thumper turret, the rocket boots, and the mines in utility because it gives much better AOE splashing with the healing turret. Also I tried rifle but it really doesn’t do much damage unless you have an ascended rifle and even then it’s subpar compared to kit damage output, so I made mine condition build. Sure you have trouble with high DPS in large groups but as we hardly play with large groups it definitely helps with the smaller groups and with the champs/vets that stand between you and the temple boss in these events.

So the one I used was 4/6/0/4/0 because I was maximizing both swiftness and vuln, bunker down, with heal turret, mines, rocket boots, thumper turret, supply drop.

This was okay but Engi’s lack condi removal effectively and thus I was forced to use Elixir for the tiny bit of defense especially in Orr where everything puts a condi on you.

Lifestealer.4910:

Is there any?.. I was thinking along the lines of getting HGH trait and use rifle mainly occasionally switching to tool kit or maybe grenade kit.

The only one I’ve seen that doesn’t use a kit is the pistol pistol elixir build well that works harmoniously at least.

Hvaran.6327:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHHTeP_Xh68

video ex-le of good engi build for wvw.

Yes the diversity is pretty low in best engis one of the class problems but it’s not like mesm, thief or ranger atm it’s much higher input for zerg.

Only because of the innate nature of the class. Sure that helps to be a jack of all trades and it helps especially when certain aspects of the class are nerfed or taken out entirely but it’s no fix for the problems that the balance team has created over the past 2 years for the class. We need a CDI.

mzt.3270:

Arantheal.7396:

Tigirius, last time you said you only do pve…

Hmmm, not sure about this… the issues with engineer are numerous. Class balance is a big issue with engies, even the devs have stated the engie is being hard countered by everything just now. Hobosacks are an issue yes , but hell I would live with a Hobo sack if i can have bombs that explode on drop ( its our melee so why should 2 to 3 second handicap be in order?), We need to trait for a wider AOE where other classes get as standard, WE lack any substantial power damage to compliment conditions ( and saying that even conditions are not high enough IMO to comfortably sit in the meta). Every other class can add conditions into power based setups quite comfortably with great results, yet condition engie with its really kitten condie tick is a tickling feather and easy wiped by most classes, thus not strong enough to keep to the meta.

Turrets are not bad but they are not that great, they do not have the key to mobility which is no use for high escape classes which is bad considering every other class with a pet/ minion can have the ability to have buffs from such additional taggers as a bonus. I’m sorry but its this sort of " there is nothing wrong with this class" comments that are simply hurting the class further more in the game – it’s better to work with everyone to bring attention to the engineers issues.
There is a decent forum entry on this issue, it would be good to read it and see what issues there are.

Seriously Arantheal, you need to learn what the term Troll is because trust me, out of the two of us, it’s definitely NOT me. Do you login everyday and look for my posts now? sheesh smh

Anyways MZT has it right. Even in PVP there are some issues because some aspects of the class cross over, like Kit Refinement being a complete joke now.

You’re wrong about four things Arantheal and “here they are”:

*Do you know that this lack of balancing you propagate all over this forum is basically non-existent…

Uhm actually no I don’t because I play multiple toons I’ve both followed and haven’t followed the cookie cutter builds for them all and I’ve seen the difference their traits make. But you wouldn’t know that would you since you’ve ignored everything I’ve ever written on the subject and just follow me around from place to place to yell at me for whatever reason.

*Did you know that its only the steep learning curve for the engi that creates the illusion of being subpar?

As I’ve demonstrated multiple times, it’s not the learning curve that’s the problem, most of the Engineer’s issues lie in the traits being subpar compared to other classes. For example, we’re an adventurer class, but one of the only few boon systems we have is when we reach below 75% hitpoints whereas other classes obtain their boons through the use of the normal attacks on their weapons. There are plenty of other such things and this is considered a minor one I would agree but it does present a problem and validates my point.

*Not a single time since I play engi, I got killed by something else but my own stupidity.

I can tell you that that’s a lie for one major reason. In Open world as it’s been documented by other posters, people have been complaining and rightly so that when there are numerous AOE fields going off at once, they cannot see the boss. It’s a well documented fact that’s been there since BWE2 and since we all know that the devs have a tendency to A: not use the aggro system and B: make bosses have 1 shot kill moves I’d say that you probably died multiple times over the past two years because you simply didn’t know you were the newest target or couldn’t see the boss. This of course would have happened even if you played a skritt but fine have it your way.

*Gw2 =/= other mmo’s, stop comparing them.

First off, under the hood of any well thought out combat system, the design is the same. DoTs, Burst, Power, HoTs, Direct Heals, Cures, Pets….It’s the same in every game. It doesn’t matter what they are called they are mathematically the same system.

And secondly, no by comparing what mmo developers have done already, we can see multiple solutions to the problems that this game’s combat system has. We can improve upon it. It happens in every other industry but the MMO industry where companies go out and find out what other companies are doing, and then if it’s a well established update to the system they use it. MMO development in recent years is nothing like that, we actually have whole teams doing things their way without ever checking to see if it was done before and to see the consequences. My example of this.? DR. Nuff said.

There are plenty of valid reasons for the discimination and it’s directly due to the inaction by the balance team on multiple levels of problems with this class in traits in not balancing the gadgets/turrets properly and in not balancing the downed state properly.

In every game where there is 1 class that isn’t given the proper attention it’s due, that 1 class builds a stigma over time not because of the playerbase who play the class but due to the developers not doing what’s needed to improve it all around.

that’s exactly what’s happening here. It’s not your fault OP.

I agree with the Rocket Boots but EG definitely needs one as well however I feel that they should make #4 a stun breaker since it removes us from the vicinity pretty quickly.

I think pets in this game are weaksauce even with the traits to help them. I think that even in PVP pets and summons should never be the target. I think that we need some serious overhauling to pet classes and that people need to stop stigmatizing them just because they have little helpers.

In exactly 0 of the mmos I’ve ever played, no pet class was so op with resistance on their pets enough to last in a fight or remove the advantage of AOE attacks by adding resistance to AOE or splash damage on them high enough to make a difference that PVPers didn’t learn to take them out or work around them eventually (which their developers DID complain about initially when even they noticed it took pets out too quickly especially in WvW and they wanted to nerf AOEs). The entire mmo community has had it out for pet classes in every game.

I think it’s high time that they get over it and allow true diversity in this game.

Uhm you do realize I said reduce. Not remove. I changed my stance on it because I could see the delay’s value however having it 2 times as long as underwater delays is the problem. We shouldn’t be waiting on ALL of the bomb attacks there are times when I wouldn’t have taken damage because the mob would have been dead had my bomb gone off immediately, also the initial attack on this skill could easily be coded to be instant while any other ones could be delayed (like they do with multiple melee attacks in melee weapons in the #1 slot for example).

I’d love for them to improve the overall damage bonuses of Acidic Elixirs, fix the defense of all pets (because pets shouldn’t be the target even in PVP), expand the explosion trigger range to that of a 2handed sword on a guardian/ranger or even the trap seal sizes of those classes, and improve the range of the #1 rifle skill.

It just won’t begin until we get some actual dialog going.

Oh and give us a toggle for hobosacks LOL

You’re not showing your age at all. I miss that kind of thing too, I also miss actually being rewarded for my time doing those things instead of worrying about if I might get a bug and get a grey or a giant pile of skulls for my troubles because everything in the zone just happens to all be classified as the same mob type. Risen. sigh

SundayTrash.9562:

Think about it for a sec. What other elements in the game generate more out of nothing other than dungeon.

Gem conversion.

That’s actually where you need to direct your rage. Gem conversion brings new gold from nothing. It creates it out of thin air into the game’s economy. Thus the prices have nowhere to go but up.

I hate to break this to you man but the requirement is actually already here. Most of us saw this as a central problem a long time ago, we’ve been posting about it for months now, hoping that someone would listen some deniers would realize that this is the direction they had in mind with the gem conversion and DR.

It’s seriously not that difficult to see, however I do have to correct you on one thing though.

This game’s economy is not new or unique. It’s been done a hundred times before. There’s a long history in MMO’s where they tried to make themselves the gold sellers so people wouldn’t try to buy it from the wrong places, there’s a long history of DR where when the developers of other titles tried to implement DR (admitedly in sub only titles) the players protested so loudly the game became barren and the companies went under almost immediately with no revenue. D3 had a similar issue except they bypassed the gems entirely, STO is actually trying to do the same thing as this economy right now by making it almost impossible to gear without hitting up their version of the TP (the exchange).

Anytime the AH in whatever form it takes becomes the center of any substantial rewards of a game or the best method of advancement (ie gathering currency through whatever method and buying the things you need to progress) the game begins to suffer because the game isn’t rewarding any longer. You’re just doing a series of jobs to get the things you need at that point (and occasionally the things you want) but ultimately it’s the same thing.

Actually Inculp not everyone has the lucky accounts or the same access to the loot. If you’ve bought this game because you want to play your way and stay only in the open world, than your are basically sol at this point because the cost continues to increase on both crafted gear and essential runes/sigils, the nerfs to the open world continue where nowhere else in the game are there loot nerfs, and once again DR is showing signs of having not only an Unidentifiable Object loot bug but also a bug where chests for events don’t appear when they are completed.

So really what option is there for new players who want to play their way?

Please we’re listening. And you realize that the talk about this game’s lack of rewards as the central issue is building all over the internet right now right? Like this isn’t the first time people have noticed this. How bad does it have to get before people who’ve been classic deniers begin to realize “Hey, there’s something not right here, maybe we should ask about it?” Like really, do sigils have to reach 20 gold each? 30? how much is too much?

I don’t understand it really. They change traits to make it now required to either be in a zone higher than your level in order to open traits/columns or grind gold which really does take a long time for new players, or buy it directly through gem conversion. How can it be that difficult for anyone with an objective mind to see? It’s not possible for some, some people don’t spend 10-12 hours on a game all day everyday to get what they need especially not for alts.

Orpheal.8263:

Your complaint is nonsense because you know as good as everyone, that Engineers and Elementalist compensate the lack of 2 sigils with a massive amount of more Weapon Skills/ Utility Skillls through Kits, than any other of the Classes have.

With 2 Weapons at any given time, Elementalists could spam through whopping 40 Skills in less than a minute !!

Engineers however cannot. Gadgets and Turrets weakness aside, kits might do as much base damage as many of the legendaries however, they do not have their own sigil slots. This is an imbalance all by itself because it means we have to contend with the same two systems of damage, switch outside of combat (which is rare even in PVE) and then do the same thing over again. Right now for example, I do not have access on my Engi to the torment/frailty sigils on my rifle because I’m using my two pistols. This causes a suction of balance in that I cannot switch while in combat while other classes can.

I suppose you’ll be telling us all that traits are perfectly balanced as well even tho I can cite to you multiple points in all three scout (adventurer) classes where Rangers and Thieves get better burst options than Engineers do.

You really need to look at it objectively. There’s alot missing.

Would love nothing more than this myself. Having so many tokens even with the wallet has never worked for any mmo in history.

Actually I hate to tell the folks who keep saying the OP did it multiple times within the same amount of time, because I have a long memory. The last time this happened it was directly due to a bug in DR where the restrictions built up so much that even the chests in dungeons were disappearing before they fixed it. For quite a few weeks now we keep seeing threads about greys and about missing items.

In fact as I recall people started having weird things happen like a bigger drop chance for greys. The reason I stopped playing recently are two fold, 1: real life concerns and 2: because I kept getting Unidentifiable Objects from boss chests. It’s very bad for business when you can’t even get a system that’s known for destroying whole economies and game companies who implemented the same restrictions from behaving properly. This is the third time now that there’s been a report of loot issues (and it hasn’t been restricted to this thread).

Since we’re still seeing those nasty things we can’t mention without being flagged in the forums and DR has done nothing to remove them I vote they remove DR entirely once and for all since it keeps creeping up like this causing this same pattern.

Kohlteth.3715:

chuckles seeing another post that starts " I have been playing since launch

Like it makes an opinion worth more than anyone else’s ( maybe a carry over from WoW where every “veteran” has to boast about it )

Although I do like your suggestion !

I think that was more a defense response to prevent trolls from making statements like “you’ve obviously never played the game before” when he’s trying to start a discussion about what the subject is on.

Anyways, OP some of the temple bosses do plenty of boons and conditions for example Lyssa does them all the time, you’ll see who rows of people pointed outward because she’s doing her blinding phase where not only can you not target but you can’t use a skill.

As far as dragons are concerned the only one that needs fixing is the one they tried to turn into a raid. Seriously if these people want raids they should make it possible to create their own guild channel to fight a harder version of the dragon/wurm and restore the ones in the open world to what they were.

Let me remind you, that the open world zones were supposed to be for casuals.

Nope honestly when they began the whole LS thing I was like YAY more stuff about what happened to Orr and the main storyline WOOT and then i saw fire and frost….then when they began the whole Scarlet thing while coming to the forums I kept thinking, guess no one’s checked the forums lately…

The best of GW2 is in their underpinnings in early design. Speedy crafting, even keel leveling process, downscaling to zones.

The worst of GW2 is hands down it’s rewards system, it’s loot system (DR RNG), and it’s economic model.

I can see people still don’t understand randomness and how these games systems never use randomness in their loot tables.

Sorry but every game out there has some form of bias in the numbers, every single game, it’s never been a completely random system there is both bias and tweaks they use all the time. Buuuuuut people will continue to just walk around in a herd chewing….

Ameno.6813:

I’m quite pleased with the way bombs and mines are working at the moment. The fact that there’s a slight delay on the bomb explosions makes it bar none, the best kiting skill in the game against melee mobs. Literally just walk forward while spamming one, you take no damage, and the mobs take tons of damage. This works great against Thieves, Warriors and Guardians as well. As for the range mobs, well, if you can find a nice corner to kite around then even range mobs can be solo’d easily.

Bunker Down trait is STRONG, it absolutely does not need any buffs at the moment. I’ve been using it to much success in PvE and PvP. Just watch the numbers roll in in the combat logs.

All of my posts deal with PVE only, and the delay on bombs is unacceptable in PVE against mobs when bombs are supposed to be the answer for Engineers since we lack greatsword access. Sure it’s different and it might work in PVP well but certainly not in PVP.

These are not buffs

Reducing their pause before exploding and improving the trigger range of ALL explosives is hardly buffing them, it’s restoring them to the qualities of equality because they already had these things 2 years ago. When we’re underwater we don’t deal with these same issues, there’s absolutely no reason why they can’t improve qualities of these kits and traits to coincide with what we already experience underwater, and what other classes enjoy by default in every class but ours.

Are the only player communities left in this game the PVPers/RPers?

mzt.3270:

tigirius.9014:

snip

Such a well thought out, concise, straight to the point forum entry with good reasoning. I hope Karl etc take such logic on when they re-issue the engie back from the nerf bats they did. IMO I feel the nerfs to the engie classes were just so bad and so drastic. The problem with the engie also lends itself to its skilled gameplay, skilled being the point that you have to be as the co-efficient between mobility and damage is not on any scale worth mentioning.

What I feel needs to be done for engie is
1 -standardized field for bombs, mines and grenades that is equal to the area surface of warrior great sword that does not have to be traited for.
2- A way better heal balance for elixir bombs to help in zergs ( just now the heals per bomb is shockingly bad for the amount of healing put in , no matter if you spec as healer or not. It should be far higher for a 30 point trait.

3 -Bomb delays are far too long and are visable, bombs should be treated as melee and be subject to instant cast off/ explosion just as a melee user can swing/ insta-damage.

4- Far better condition variables, even with traiting high for conditions does not give enough clout to push through -40 % foods, melandru runes etc.
After playing a necro and as fun as that is for condies yet suffering stunbreak/ stability options – I still feel engies need far more conditions damage than they have now.

Of course they can just forgo all these and give engie a perm stealth skill line like thieves . Then there is at least a real counter to thief stealth and you have at least secondary evasion to make up for the hard counters engies are facing now.

Thanks for the compliment.

I agree totally about the bomb delay thing, oddly the things we suffer on land as Engineers don’t happen underwater. The delay on bombs is so small underwater it’s not noticeable, our cast time is at least twice as fast, and the #1 grenade skill is tab target only not ground target.

One of the things I brought up early on about condition damage differences between the classes is that some classes use a portion of their condition/power damage scaling (haven’t figured out which yet) in their initial damage of a skill. For example, the runes of a Staff Necro actually do an initial damage hit when they are triggered before the actual application of a condition. So the field is triggered, the enemy takes an initial hit when triggering it, then the poison is added and started to tick it’s damage. In contrast if you watch what happens with poison grenades for example, all they do is setoff fields for poison to be applied, there is no initial damage output.

The combat in this game is also too dependent on conditions entirely. What I’m seeing globally is this Every build has conditions no matter what their type of build focuses on (which leads to the problem of condition stacking in groups). So what happens is the Zerkers are stacking bleeds for example, on enemies that condition builders rely on. They even apply sigils to improve these stacks on Zerker builds. On the other side of the coin, the problem with classes being too reliant on conditions for every build means (and I’ve just tested this) that those classes like Engineer who’s direct damage output is lowered because of nerfs to the class means it takes longer to kill enemies without conditions in the build.

Try it sometime. I put on all rares to look at this. Burning is one of our most damaging condis so I tested it with burning.

If you put on all rares attack mobs in a level 70 zone spec yourself zerker rifle it will take you twice as long to kill enemies. I then traited 1 trait in Explosives, Crit’s give burns. Guess what happened. Enemies died in half the time. I’ve proposed this before the removal of conditions as a requirement in builds that don’t use conditions because not only does it harm classes to be dependent on them (like engineers which have been nerfed) but it also harms condition builds in events like Guild Bounties where you’ve got a large group stacking DoTs to the point that condition build DoTs are ignored by the game from those who rely on them.

Some of these issues aren’t limited to the Engineer some of them are global problems as you can see but it’s important to get the discussion started in a CDI.

Fragment.2793:

Engineer downed state is pretty nice, you have two ways to interrupt an enemy stomp, while also providing nice conditions on #1.
Engineer are also fairly effective at preventing team mates getting stomped with pulls or knockbacks. If you have any turrets down, they are also good for killing players from downed state.
If you are talking about PVE then I cant tell you much, but if your talking PVP then as an engineer from day one and a Piken square commander, I believe they are in a good position. The disadvantage is high skill floor but in return for a high skill ceiling.

You’re kidding right? And yes I’m solely talking about PVE nothing more. Even in PVP tho I’ve heard countless engineers complain about the downed state. Boobie Trap for example doesn’t come anywhere near the amount of damage that the Mesmer’s own Phantasmal Rogue for example. If it did it would actually GIVE engineers a fighting chance. All ours does is delay the inevitable, there’s not enough damage output or even damage output trait choices or even healing trait choices for our downed state to actually bring it up to par with what other classes have.

I dunno about you but increasing damage on an already weak attack only makes it a normal attack (50% damage increase trait), Dropping bandages when we’re imobilized by the downed state doesn’t really help us heal while downed (instead of say a healing turret nearby or an EG field) and a large explosion that does nothing but pushback doesn’t really help rally the engineer when it doesn’t do enough damage to the enemy to make a difference allowing the enemy to come running back up and finish us off.

We might as well be sitting there telling them to hurry up. I mean seriously it’s been 2 years of these traits that do nothing to help us with our downed state, and it took over 1 year to make the #1 skill actually explode a bit and do some AOE damage.(when the game first launched I could only hit 1 enemy at a time with my throw junk ability).

They’ve been needing a weekly for some time now, when they started the daily system we suggested that too, which ended up in the suggestions trashbin. Since the CDIs have ceased I hold little hope for this game’s future since it appears obvious that what the customer wants is not the goal.

Edgez.4236:

It would be really great if you could add to the gemstore a kit wich changes the race of your character

Yet another item asked for that ended up in the Suggestions forums trashcan.

We asked for this long ago and got some nonsense about it affecting the personal storyline or some mess. But since the whole game and development of future patches won’t be centered around the personal storyline anyway it doesn’t matter does it. hmmm.

Lightsbane.9012:

Ameno.6813:

I don’t get it, I’ve NEVER had trouble against conditions…

a lot of condition engineers run zero cleanses. zero. i’ve discovered this by throwing lolplexity engis confusion right back at them on my necromancer and them pressing 1 for days.

Alot of it has to do with where our traits are placed and how it will affect our damage choices. For example, on my Ranger Wilderness Survival allows for the increase of both Condition Damage and Toughness so it supports the role properly, whereas on the Engineer our traits for Condition Damage are all under Rifle which oddly enough tends to be the choice for Power/Zerker builds more often than not. If they stuck Toughness and Condition Dmg together in the same slot it would make for easier pickings for bunker builds. As it stands now, there are only certain choices to use if you plan on playing that way in PVE and if you don’t choose them you run the risk of either making yourself a glass cannon having to be rezzed by players around you (because we still have a lackluster downed state to consider as well) or you have to be too defensive and not bring enough damage to the table.

These things were all pointed out when the game launched btw, in Suggestions forums. You can still see all the earliest posts about these concerns. (not just by me btw)

Dustfinger.9510:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Dustfinger.9510:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ0pqRwjuU

This is what happens when slow, long range projectiles are auto cast without ground target. I’m all for eliminating the need to constantly press “1” but notto take away the ground target. the inability to anticipate out opponents position would kill grenades due to it’s slow cast, great range and arching trajectory.

That wouldn’t really be so bad for PvE.

Another possible option would be to give grenade #1 a cooldown, while buffing its other stats, to make it into something like the #2-#4 skills on every single weapon in the game. Something you wouldn’t want to set on auto-cast.

ya. it works fine for mobs that stand in one place and only move toward you but it would only be workable in pve.

Interestingly enough, this doesn’t occur when fighting mobs underwater while using Grenade kit so it’s very possible, and #1 doesn’t need a CD it has one and it already has been nerfed multiple times. I vote for #1 to be an autotarget the rest can use ground but #1 has needed to be an AT for a long long time now.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Rhomulos.2089:

We can stack ridiculous amounts of Vuln, consistant party might, off-healing, tons of condi removal if it’s needed, party stealth only beat out by thieves and more.

We’re a jack of all trades. We bring a lot to parties, but none of it is unique, and with a comp of 5 classes that specialize in roles, an engineer’s contributions are relatively diminished.

I think most of us are OK with this. I am OK with this. But the engineer still has way too many wasteful utilities, and has way too many traits that serve absolutely no purpose and are never used, even after several passes by ArenaNet.

When I play my guardian, my warrior, my elementalist, or my mesmer, I am constantly swapping around utilities to suit particular fights. I am regularly re-traiting my build for Tequatl, for Wurm, for FOTM, for dungeons. But my engineer? 6/6/0/2/0 is just overwhelmingly the best option, and there’s no real alternative or reason to run anything else anywhere in PvE.

For a class that’s designed as a jack of all trades, I find that to be a problem that my guardian swaps around traits far more often as a class with a specialized role.

Gadgets and turrets still need a lot of work. And if they’re going to make it to where they retain their niche role, then they need to be more obvious to us that engineers are meant to focus around kits, and to give us more competitive builds to focus on kits other than the grenade kit and bomb kit.

I’m okay with the jack of all trades thing personally I just want the systems to work properly/equally to other classes because that’s what is being stated on the front pages about combat.

When I play my guardian, ranger, thief, or necro I want to login and not be instantly reminded of the various faults with the engineer design immediately upon using skills or getting into combat. I don’t want to be reminded that my engineer doesn’t have the condition removal choices that my guard/ranger has, or that my guard can regen everyone just by standing there and not have to rely on a pet that gets hit through walls and dies in 1 hit (Healing Turret), I want to login to my thief and not be reminded that not only does my rifle not have the same range as the bow but that I don’t have the same choices in burst dps options even tho they are supposedly the same tier of professions (adventurers), and when I login to my necro I want to use my staff without being reminded that my mines and bombs used to have the same AOE size as the runes that are placed down. One of the basic things that annoys me to no end is the problem with Gadgets/Turrets even with the 2 new XIII traits they still are not better than using kits because A: kits do the damage that Ascended/Legendary weapons do by default (which makes Exotic weapons weak), and B: Engineers are missing traits like 20% damage bonus when enemies are at 50% health (Executioner) which is shared by the Ranger’s choices (they have two that work in harmony that provide the same bonus) but is nowhere to be found on the engineer. And no Modified Ammunition doesn’t really work as a valid replacement because conditions have short cd’s and often are removed by mobs before they can be used as a bonus to damage.

I honestly don’t see the problem. I see alot of people thinking I’m talking about PVP, and I’m not never have been PVP to me is fine according to all the PVP experts I follow on the forums, which is part of the problem sadly. In their quest to balance PVP they have damaged PVE and these things need to be fixed.

Sunspear General.7964:

So Tequatl the Sunless and 3 headed wurm…both great bosses. But extremely hard to kill. Tried countless times and have yet to succeed yet Jormag and even Zhaitan who are both at a higher level are easier to kill and require a lot less people and effort.

Is there a chance for these 2 bosses to be debuffed to where they are actually able to be killed again like all the other bosses?

That’s the trouble with people asking for harder content. They have multiple types of players and in the beginning they were trying to cater to everyone so now we have a problem. Open world which was never meant to be a raid or a dungeon is made especially difficult with these two as well as less than rewarding in most of the events that take place.

We’ve pointed this out multiple times but certain parts of the community keep missing the point. Open World PVE = Casuals, Dungeons/Fractals = Dungeoneers/Raiders. That’s the way it have should remained.

Arantheal.7396:

Tigirious, you’re either_
A) a troll
B) limited to one build that you like but no one else plays since it actually has the incapabilities you mentioned.
c) never played engineer or other classes to their full extend and are too biased by other mmo’s.

Your high acc.ID (new player) highly supports thesis C.

And no, I’m not dodging the point of your post since there is none AND I’ve it adressed previously already. Stop posting / trolling and play more often the class you claim to know cats about.

Uhm actually yes you are in fact you didn’t even directly reply to my posts because you are in fact doing what typical trolls do which is ignore the points someone makes in their posts because you know you can’t argue effectively against the points being made, attack the person making the points which is completely irrelevant to the discussion and shows how weak your position is, and then make broad statements to try to deflect anyone from pointing out what you’re doing, typically these statements are projections or false claims of innocence on the very thing you know you are guilty of doing but won’t admit it. Trust me I’m not the troll here ;D

Let’s look at some of the things you said in your misdirection post here.

B) Limited to the one build you like..

First of all, these classes shouldn’t be limited at all. Diversity as well as equality is supposed to be a crowning achievement of Anet’s game combat design, it even says so on their main page. When people demonstrate that it’s not actually equal or diverse we often hear from the naysayers how we’re completely wrong that nothing we’re pointing out exists and everyone should just move along and ignore it.

C) never played an engineer or other classes to their full extend and are too biased by other mmo’s.

See I find this hilarious that this is the mantra call of every complaint valid or not made against the design of the balance in PVE. Whenever someone brings up anything it just “has to be the player’s fault” “couldn’t possibly be holes in the overall design” “simply must mean that you can’t play the class”

I have several 80s and I’ve made it a point to try every class in the game. I’ve spent hours looking at calculators to find the perfect builds and to example the traits in every class to find out why certain things are not happening with Engineers and why they are available freely on other classes.

I’ve written multiple threads on the subject and replied to multiple threads. The classes I’ve been most recently making comparisons with are Staff Necro, Healer Guards, Trap Rangers in regards to the severe reduction in the AOE trigger zones for explosives comparing them to the AOE fields of other classes, and the lack of condition removal on interval in the Engineer class that’s freely available in other classes not just 1 time but multiple times between traits/skills.

You’re not dealing with someone who’s unarmed with the facts and yes it is important to compare to other titles because there’s this thing called MMO Development history you might wanna check into where the exact same problems have been hashed and rehashed multiple times by multiple game developers over 20+ years under the hood of every game with combat, and the fact that all combat under the hood is essentially the same system of mathematics just with a different label.

DiazKincade.2891:

Halcyon.7352:

Penguin.5197:

DiazKincade.2891:

Skorm.4897:

Engi’s dont need more weapons, Thats what kits are for.

So what you are saying is that kits or gtfo…what about all of the other utilities they have? How often do you hear of gadget engineers? Heck even turret engineers run with a kit.

The way engineers are set up at the moment requires them to have at least 1 kit on them at all times. if not more. That seriously limits their build options. Having access to some melee skills would be nice especially if they can use some of their other utilities and actually trait with those in mind rather than “trait for kit first”. Especially considering all the players who keep crying for melee only. and melee is the best. Engineers get tool kit for melee. That takes up a utility slot. and tool kit is stupidly slow damage wise. On the terms of hammer guardian slow. The guardian gives protect to all(up to 5? I forget.), damage to enemies around in the symbol and potentially healing if traited, where tool kit gives a weak vulnerability and a bunch of situational defensive/support skills.

In short engineers need a standard melee weapon to go to that actually doesn’t rely on their utility slots to open up more viable builds.

AsmallChicken.9634:

Corian.4068:

I’m a warrior. I’ll trade you my mace for your flamethrower.

Take it.

Enjoy your garbo weapon.

Flamethrower does significant damage when built for it (Its a power based weapon not condi just fyi) yet compared to other options it is lackluster. Bomb and Grenade kits come to mind (when traited for).

Any damage flame jet can do goes down the drain when you and your opponent have a strafing match at close range and half the hits miss

If strafing causes your flame jet to miss at all, you’re doing it very wrong.

Also, flame jet sustained is fairly unimpressive. Infact, pretty much all engineer auto sustained is very unimpressive, except maybe bomb, and maaaaaybe rifle. You should be doing other things to maximize your damage.

Especially the stupid speargun. There is almost no reason to stay with speargun underwater. Ever.

I find it fascinating that people will blame the player for a very very bad mechanism in game design. At no time would any other title call the player to fault should there be some terribly designed targeting system that makes cone attacks miss.

Jerus.4350:

Flash.6912:

We have like pistol, shield and rifle… 3 weapons. Two years and only 3 weapons for engs still. This is a little bit sad.

And a lot of the time they don’t even use those! yay kits.

If ever they want us to use gadgets more and turrets more we’ll need more weapon choices, because as it stands now kits are the focus simply because we don’t have any other choice. I use my kits because the weapons they offer us are way too weaksauce.

I’d love a hammer, a staff (with decidedly electrical properties) and of course a mace. I think we’d be able to do alot of good things with these as options.

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

tigirius.9014:

sorudo.9054:

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ I was kind of enjoying your post until the last part about GW2 being a WoW clone. I’m not even going to say anything other than: have you actually played WoW before?

the two things that are directly from WoW and are just as horrible:
1.) gear grind, you might not have to do an insane dungeon to hope for a drop but then again, you have a better chance of getting the gear trough a drop then to farm for it like in GW2.
2.) gear centric, one thing GW1 did perfectly right but GW2 did horribly wrong is to make gear the top priority as it is in WoW, it should’ve bin a cosmetic thing and nothing else.

I love this post. In WoW even before they went casual it was possible to get a few pieces of currency and buy a piece of armor without spending years in the same dungeon. I tried myself to get even the AC things (you would think since it’s one of the first dungeons players encounter it would be quick to do a single run and then get a reward but no.) we barely made it with a good team and two guards. What gets me is the tiny bit of currency. I went out to see what I could get with it. Absolutely nothing. Is it any wonder why people preferred crafting in this title to running dungeons early on?

Agree with you on the stats thing. When they announced early on that it might be cosmetic only I thought AWESOME! that would be a real change. but alas no. Last minute decisions in the wrong directions/lack of knowledge of mmo development history seems to be this game’s problem.

If you are struggling in AC, you don’t have a good team. Period. In fact, you have a bad team.

AC is one of the easiest dungeons in the game, and you can tell it is because its a dungeon which is near the top of everyone’s daily rotation list.

if it’s so “easy”, why do ppl constantly force ppl to play a certain build or scram?
answer me that question, just try it.

Yep they usually can’t answer that so they’ll try to marginalize that this really happens or they’ll say that it’s a one time deal, the fact of the matter is this. It’s been going on for the better part of a year now. It started for Engineers when they nerfed Grenades. Every nerf since has been nothing but more pushback from the community in these dungeons, one of the problems with the engineer class that I talk about which leads to this issue is our dependence on condition damage to do any kind of damage at all. If you make a power build or a Zerker build you’ll notice how there’s simply not enough damage output outside of the grenade kit in any other kit or weapon choice that this class has that allows for it to be competative with any other class in PVE without the use of condition damage. I personally have kept Incendiary Powder on my builds no matter if I’m healing or not because I’ve found that pure power pure Zerker just doesn’t work on this class mostly due to the lack of damage bonus traits that both rangers and thieves enjoy that are missing from the engineer trait lines.

I’ve pointed this discrepency out for the entire life of this title and both the suggestions threads I’ve made about it and the numerous posts about it have been met with people either mistakenly thinking that PVP numbers are the same as PVE or they had never played another class so they weren’t really seeing the problem.

At some point just as we’re seeing now with players finally seeing the problems we’ve been talking about with lack of rewards (after months of first mentioning it of course) I’m sure people down the road possibly a few months from now will realize what I’m posting today and will start making posts of their own asking why it’s been like this and why it hasn’t been properly addressed.

Rhomulos.2089:

tigirius.9014:

Let’s go down the list shall we?

snip

1. Turrets are only now being shown for what they actually are, with bug fixes and more turret traits. They’re weak, and difficult to balance. They always have been in every MMO out there. They’re supposed to be a defining point for the class, but in the current working of things they simply don’t fit except inside of casual/mid-tier pvp where they work very well against average players.

3. While some of the trait lines may feel a tad choppy, Engineer certainly has no short-coming of DPS. They bring ridiculous burst and will carry a pug’s DPS easily. Classes like thief have to use 2 different weapon sets with very specific traits to have the DPS they do, which when not using an FGS with their 10% dmg with bundle trait is around ours or usually even lower depending on the dungeon. Our damage is consistent as we never have to choose between cleave or single target.

4. Engineer has great healing potential and condition removal, we don’t even need traits to attain the best part of the healing/condi removal. Elixir gun and Healing turret + our readily available blast finishers offers a very noticeable difference in party survivability in Berserker gear. Guardians, for example have to trait just to even get that while Engineer can bring it and maintain great DPS since Elixir Gun scales well with power on top of it.

5. Our range is certainly never an issue, I almost never use Forceful Explosions except when I can exploit the range through walls. AoE is our specialty, we can attack from any range as well. I enjoy melee ranging for most of my fights, and if I feel the need to step back at all I just swap to grenades. If i’m only using bomb kit, then I just melee like everyone else with the same draw-backs as them. Bombs share the same distance as other classes, Engineer just doesn’t have the same type of i-frames and survivability as other melee-oriented classes but at least have perma vigor if needed. A fair trade.

6. Engineer is one of the best taggers for anything. We have instant chain AoE, FT, grenades and bomb kit. It’s not staff-guard, but it’s certainly on par with any other class if not better.

1: turrets have been one of the defining elements of the class however their weakness is not limited to this class as defined by multiple threads by me and other pointing out the underpinnings of every game out there with the same mechanics. Pet mechanics in this game are part of the problem, there’s a stigma that is being placed on pets that they don’t deserve.

3: The shortcomings are that this class is outperformed in DPS by every other class out there in PVE, because A: it’s so focused on one of the problematic dps systems of the game, Condition damage no matter which build you choose in order to be effective in PVE you have to use some form of Condi and B: it’s missing essential traits used by every other class. If you can’t be honest about it don’t comment on it. Anyone can go to any calculator or wiki catalog a list of the types of traits each class has and see which ones are missing even by the other classes in the same category.

4: It’s got great potential but it’s still not equal. Both Guardian and Ele have way better healing skills can heal without even using skills and their condition removal is on timers shorter than our manual skills are. There’s an imbalance when you have to wait 5 seconds longer to remove conditions manually while other classes not only don’t have to do anything to remove theirs but their are multiple behind the scenes timers taking theirs off their characters.

5: You’ve never played any other class than if you truly believe that. Try warrior rifle for five minutes you don’t even have to level and you’ll see the difference.

6: Again you’ve never played any other class because A: the size of the AOE aren’t the same size as other classes, it’s obvious to any objective observer and B: we actually have to use a trait to make them these AOE zones close but not equal to the size that other class AOEs are without their size increasing traits.

I’ll forgive your trolling comment since you haven’t played two of the classes I mentioned that have these AOEs and ranges without blinking but you serious have issues with reality if you think that these things are the same. Place a trap down on a ranger place a mine down on the engi, side by side you’ll see what I’m saying. I suggest you go check it out.

I wonder if that’s why they nerfed engis as well. It’s like the continuation of the internet’s stigma on pet classes entirely. I hate to break it to them but in PVE pets aren’t all that powerful seriously. They’ve yet to improve their defense so they all die quickly from AOE attacks from Champs/bosses and then you’re left without their added DPS.

As an Engi main I gotta wonder sometimes if they actually play these classes because it’s really obvious to those of us who’ve played many many MMOs for years that these tried and true mechanics are missing in this game.

The list of things that are wrong with the pets aren’t just limited to the AI, they are weak, they are stupid, and their F2 skills don’t really do anything spectactular or to warrant choosing one pet over another.

When I played other titles my pets all had a particular role. It’s true to this day even in the oldest games (tho some did lose their way like WoW hunters in MoP) but they retained their basic usefulness.

Another thing i find annoying is Rangers/Engis/Necros pets all have a delay system on their attacks. This is a terrible design idea because 1: none of the mobs have this delay in PVE and 2: when you’re fighting a boss for example you need certain skills to be instant. Heals should never be delayed in PVE for example.

jokke.6239:

Anet is already working (or at least thinking) about implementing this.
It’s a lot more work that you would think to get the capes to fit, with everything else and avoid clipping.
It have been rumored that legendary back skins will be capes. But then again, legendary back skins is a rumor itself

A rumor within a rumor leads to this….

This thread will most likely be closed but I just gotta say, I don’t understand why after 1 yr and months of being told that we need more skins and more armor choices, that they’d take out choices from the game. Isn’t that counter to the desires of your customer base?

Especially from an RP pov, the one community that stays with a game the longest out of any other.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

What I don’t get is why I’m able to see where the people I’ve put on block list are in the game. That just takes the cake.

Yep I’ve been trolled by people in the forums this way. I’ve had to report people on many occasions because they were blocking me, then whispering me some nonsense before logging off entirely for an hour logging back in and doing it again.

Sad that this doesn’t offer anyone better security. I block someone in STO and I never see them again, they aren’t tracked, and my system actively places me in other “channels” on their single shard system (similar to megaservers but smarter).

Makes me wonder too when i see loading screens with capes on characters (whoever they are) in certain maps. But I think they’d have an issue on Charr definitely.

Well I’m sure I speak for the community when I say that there have been more important issues since the beginning of the game than their redesign of the box entirely. Seriously, they couldn’t put that time into fixing the one class in the game that’s been in beta since launch? Engineers.

completely agree. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been downed as an Engineer (which other Engineers will tell you since we have the worst downed state options in the game is a death sentence for us) because I couldn’t tell when the Champ or boss suddenly directed his attention towards me. There was no indication except the sudden impending death, and they don’t stop when you’re downed either they just keep pounding on even tho you’re party members are unleashing elites.

The least they could have done in this non-trinity setup is allow people the ability to minimize other players fields of attack FX and have an actual threat system so we know if we have aggro. Seriously.

I can sometimes make about 4-10 gold in a gathering run. I’ve never seen more than 10 in a 2-3 hour time period except when I first started the game.

For those first two months I got exotics from chests i found, rares from veterans, and I got tons of those unidentified dyes.

I sold ectos and those dyes and made decent but since they implemented DR and made the system restrict only the PVE open world drops compared to what you get in dungeons/eotm it’s never been the same. So much for play how you like.

We asked for this in the beginning for just the #1 skill.

I suggest that you ask them for a CDI so that we can get the dialogue going. We need support in the CDI thread to get their attention. If they start a CDI we can address these very old issues with the class balance in PVE and get this situation under control because if it doesn’t happen I can see this class remaining in Beta stage for 2 more years to come easily sadly.

Fragment.2793:

“In WVW zerging i feel the class is useless, I just think for everything engi can do, other classes can do it far Better.”
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Engineer has the highest skill floor and ceiling in the game, if you cant play it effectively, then you probably just need more practice. Hence they are underplayed.
I would consider this a plus, as it means in deadlock fights, making maximum use of everything at your disposal can break the stalemate and make your team victorious when having another class would’ve been too predictable.

Actually no that’s not the case. This game has nerfed this class to death, while they have yet to fix any of the real issues with it. We’ve seriously seen more nerfs than any other class, there are more things wrong with the class inconsistencies that have not been addressed in 2 years that need to be. AOE fields missing, traits missing, AOE fields being too small compared to other classes, problems with skills being so weak it’s laughable, problems with traits not offering the same standards of access to both boons and damage output options. I’ve cataloged alot of it over the time I’ve played this game, now all we need is their ear even for a short time.

There are alot of our skills that don’t behave as they should, this should be a Fire AOE zone, the Smoke Vent from the FT should be a blind field that lasts more than .5 seconds, there should be an option for a secondary AOE heal field from EG and the Barbs from pistols should be a poison field.

I just think there have been far too many nerfs to this class.

I mean look at the whole Kit Refinement, EG spews out three tiny dropplets of glue and the shield from the Medkit doesn’t last but 4 seconds. Really like these reflects are that powerful or something, when other classes can pop Retaliation like kids pop skittles something needs to be done. I’ve asked for a CDI for the engineer class because it’s high time we get all of this out in the open and done in PVE, this class needs to be brought out of beta stage.

Let’s go down the list shall we?

1. Turrets are weak, they die just as quickly from a single shot as they did on the first day this game launched.
2. The new traits that actually offer us direct access to boonss (that we’ve been missing btw like Stability) to improve the Gadgets are fixed to a single line, diversity here was apparently not the goal. Boones should not be a XIII only trait.
3. There are still traits missing from this class that it’s sister scout classes enjoy that are there to improve damage output that the Engineer needs in PVE. Without them we definitely DO bring less damage to the table comparitively especially when you factor in removing conditions altogether from some of these builds.
4. There are healing traits that are completely missing from this class that all other classes enjoy without a hitch, interval condition removal choices, choices for AOE healing (mostly automatic) that are nowhere to be found but we’re supposed to believe this class is equal (nod nod).
5. The AOE fields that other classes enjoy are twice as large as those we use, we actually have to use Forceful Explosions trait to make ours the same size as their normal size, now keep in mind Engineers do not have access to a two handed sword so Bombs and Mines are supposed to be our Greatswords and when they don’t have the same range there’s a problem.
6. Speaking of range, ever get frustrated because you only found out about an event when you’re within 30 feet of it only to get there and not get a single shot in? Warriors haven’t had that trouble since the beginning. Even with the traits to improve range on the Engi we still have range problems even with the EG.

I could go on but you see where I’m going the list is actually longer than this I’ve played Mesmer, Guardian, Ranger, Necro, and Warrior in my time on this game and I’ve seen how these other skills work. There should be no difference in PVE it’s not like you have to balance PVE for tPVP or anything these changes should not be affecting PVE at all ever.

Rhomulos.2089:

Engineer is in a great spot right now, some people may argue too good of a spot.

In PvE, many out there still think Engineer brings much less DPS than most other classes, and is in the same boat as Necro and Ranger. Many don’t know about what engineers can do, or Ranger for that matter.

It’s actually not. I can point out multiple flaws and inconsistancies in the PVE portion of the class that are not equal and are not on par with other classes yet we’re supposed to believe the statement on the main page that it doesn’t matter which class you bring to the party even though we’ve all seen the reports on continued classist behavior from the community in PVE environments.

Your statement is not only false it’s confusing because either you are an engineer main who’s played since the beginning and seen all of the nerfs this class has had to endure (unlike those you claim as examples like Ranger) or you are maining some other class and for whatever reason decided that your class should take priority so you’ve taken to the forums to misdirect.

This kind of thing is exactly why we need a CDI for Engineers, this class has suffered more than any other in balance and it’s high time that we take center stage on fixing these issues.

I’ve personally posted multiple times on aspects of every other class that are equal among those other classes but are completely missing from Engineers or completely nerfed for no good reason because unlike PVP, PVE doesn’t need such drastic measures.

Help support your community and stop spreading nonsense.

These issues are PVE not PVP, it’s no secret that the large number of nerfs over the 2 year period have drastically affected all aspect of engineer life. One example is to see PVE only characters using the same skills similar to what we had we the game began. For example, the Skill Point Centurion Titus Gearclaw, his main skill is throwing mines.

I’ve been playing since BWE2 I remember mines, mine field, bombs, grenades all having large fields to trigger them. I’ve played Guardian, Staff Necro, and Trap Ranger, all of those classes kept the general size of and trigger zones of their weapons but Engineers did not. If you’re an explosive engineer you’ve been nerfed not just once but multiple times in PVE. The fields for Guardian, Staff Necro, Trap Ranger are twice as large as those for the mines, bombs, emergency mines from traits, and grenades. We actually have to absolutely use the Forceful Explosives trait (which I might add could be a slot used for something else like perhaps the missing extra damage trait after reaching a certain percentage that’s missing from the Engineer Traits entirely) just to make the explosions large enough, and some of them aren’t as large as the swing of a 2 handed sword. (like the Bunker Down mines for example which enemies can dance all over and never set them off).

We need a CDI to talk about things like this, nerfs in PVE don’t help anyone, they don’t help gameplay and they don’t help the playerbase to stop such things as discrimination based on class when doing functions like running dungeons/fractals/or even guild bounties and we’ve all seen the reports on those.

After I read that people of other classes were waiting on a promised CDI for their class I felt it was necessary to bring this to attention here in the forums. We need a voice, we need to address the things that aren’t working properly, the overall imbalance, and we need the ear of the man in charge so that we can once and for all get some of these age old issues with this class fixed. No other class has suffered the nerfs this class has had to endure in the entire lifetime of this title in PVE.

The issue above is only 1 example of many things wrong with the class. Please help support your fellow players.

Will we ever get the attention we need, it is coming up on the 2 year mark. I would like to address a large number of issues and I’m sure I’m not alone in the community.