Yep you right, its the combo. But Dhuumfire is about 1/3 of that combo, terror is 2/3 of total effect.
Just because it ticks for less damage doesn’t mean that the total amount isn’t more. Unlike burning you can’t have a 50%+ fear uptime on your opponent.
No one is complaining about Dhuumfire.
Really? -.-
If you think the combo its too strong, guess what, stop using it. Let the noobs use that combo and call it the noob build, like the hearth seeker spam of thieves.
Right… because that’s what people do, pick weaker builds on purpose.
Why not? It’s all about getting fun with your play style.
I got bored with OP builds, like the terror one with burning, spectral wall etc etc.
Maybe you only get fun with this kind of builds, let me tell you something: you are one of the biggest noobs in this place for this kind of idea: “oh there is an OP build, let’s abuse it till necros get nerfed!! what? you want to nerf my terror build? Nerf Dhuumfire instead of terror, my heavy cc+high damage combo”
Just lame.
The weapon its a kittening axe! It must bleed the target at least.
Put a chain skill or something.
Its the most useless aa of all necro’s weapons, for sure somethin must be done
/pop corn… 13… 14… 15!
Dhuumfire is not OP
terror damage is.yet everyone is only complaining about it now.
terror damage has always been like this.
No one is complaining about Dhuumfire. Ppl are crying for condi spam and fear not allowing them do anything.
Necros, using terror, are the ones that complain about our burning.
If you think the combo its too strong, guess what, stop using it. Let the noobs use that combo and call it the noob build, like the hearth seeker spam of thieves.
Why don’t you also remember the great amount of necros out there before patch?
I will take you seriously when you aknowledge that dhuumfire+terror combo is the current problem. Not terror alone, not dhuumfire alone.There is enough streams out there that further showcase the tragic OP dhuumfire+terror combo. Until then, keep doing it, I love it.
Yep you right, its the combo. But Dhuumfire is about 1/3 of that combo, terror is 2/3 of total effect.
Why don’t you also remember the great amount of necros out there before patch?
Heavy CC+biggest damage on a single condition. Yeah right it’s not OP at all
Dhuumfire is a 30 trait. They cant make it worse than it currently is
Dhuumfire is not OP
terror damage is.
Just so I’m not just trashing other ideas here are my quick fix trait changes.
Remove dhuumfire
Move weakness on crit to spite GM and add a 5% LF gain when critically struck with a 20 second ICD
Replace the above trait in curses with “Tormented Steps”: 33% chance to gain 1 stack of torment for 10 seconds on application of bleeds (5 second ICD).
Set a profession wide priority for boon strip with stability in the fifth slot. Silly that S/D thieves will always rip stab first but some well timed necro corrupts will fail to stop stability stomps.
These changes would give power a trait for a sustain option, keep terror viable and remove the build that made its use appear OP, give necro a steady source of a cover condi for a GM trait, and heal the over saturation of condi in the meta and promote comp diversity.
Anyone can post their ideas about necro balance. This one, however, is the worst I’ve ever read.
it works everywhere in tpvp i can kill 2 bunkers at the same time. as well as deal with burst thieves.
LOL! He is just trolling. Nothing to see here ppl. Move along, move along
1) Staff/scepter, used for condition builds, would lose out entirely on the burning condition
2) Dagger and axe2 are the “burstiest” damage we have now, so would this only make us “burstier”?
1) that’s the idea, to not combo burning+terror, because that’s why all ppl are complaining. you can have burning on Life Transfer anyway
2)Axe and dagger 2 are bursting but if you take Dhuumfire, you can’t take Close to Death, which is a major component of the bursting in pure power builds.
look at the CD’s necros have much longer CD’s and you don’t take into account the casting times, which are ridiculously long. If you hit your target with grasping dead or enfeebling blood it’s just cause you were lucky or skilled player.
Beside, necro don’t have a pet applying more conditions, can’t spam evades, have less armor, less burning, less poison, etc. Your traps are unblockable without any trait and two of them have fields, which are easily triggered by ranger own skills.
CPC? really? no one uses that skill, this tell me you don’t pvp a lot. It’s a terrible utility you can simply walk out of it and you are safe.
Epidemic it’s pretty strong for it’s CD, it has 1 sec casting time though. Again, you need the opponent team to be all together on a short range.
Spectral wall was buffed too much IMHO, it could have a nerf. But it works only if you are so blind to not see it on the ground.
here is another idea.
Change Dhumfire to:
100% chance to inflict burning for 5 seconds when a channeled skill is used. This effect can only trigger once every 10 seconds.
This would benefit to axe and dagger, weapons used in hybrid builds and terror builds will only proc it each 40 secs on DS#4.
This would reduce the bursting on terror without nerfing any other build.
Any thoughts?
Nerf Dhuumfire and every terror build will move to SR tree for more survivability.
Then the hybrid builds using Dhuumfire will be nerfed to the ground without any decent replacement for what burning brings to the table.
Move terror to GM then you have to be glassy to take Dhuumfire and terror which its ok: high damage and low survivability
I think the engi/necro needs to scale down to what the trap ranger is now. As a trap ranger you actually have to set up your pet cc/spike trap so you can get in your full damage from burn/poison trap. Also these traps are nothing compared to the spam of necros/engi which are also usually way stronger. They apply for longer durations/more stacks/longer duration/longer range they can be applied from, and they also don’t have to put 30 points into a trait line for them to actually be viable. I still play a trap ranger because i enjoy the playstyle and the skill it really takes to be a successful trap ranger in high level play. Weapons wise/utility wise necro/engi just need to scale down to what a ranger is or somewhere along those lines.
And that’s because…?
Its ridiculous how wrong are you in almost everything you said about necros.
Where are the numbers? Where are the videos of you dodging the marks/not walking into spectral wall and still being owned?
Untill you defend your words with numbers this is pure QQingDo you spvp much/understand the point of this thread? Because your acting like i’m talking about 1v1 or something in that area. Over all necros have much more aoe condition spam then a ranger does oh and also dodge marks/walk into spectral wall. Thats like sayings someone dodges over my traps/doesn’t trigger my traps because they know where they are or dodge my pets cc. This thread is talking about aoe condition spamming. ranger in no means has the aoe condition spamming on the level of necro/engi. This might be what they needs to help balance the meta of the game but we already know its probably not going to happen anytime soon or at all.
What about you tell your team to not stay all 5 people together in a point? What about start dodging when necro put down the first mark? Then donge in the rest of them to nullify all the condi pressure.
And again where are the numbers for your QQing? Or do you just repeat whatever you read on this forum?
I think the engi/necro needs to scale down to what the trap ranger is now. As a trap ranger you actually have to set up your pet cc/spike trap so you can get in your full damage from burn/poison trap. Also these traps are nothing compared to the spam of necros/engi which are also usually way stronger. They apply for longer durations/more stacks/longer duration/longer range they can be applied from, and they also don’t have to put 30 points into a trait line for them to actually be viable. I still play a trap ranger because i enjoy the playstyle and the skill it really takes to be a successful trap ranger in high level play. Weapons wise/utility wise necro/engi just need to scale down to what a ranger is or somewhere along those lines.
And that’s because…?
Its ridiculous how wrong are you in almost everything you said about necros.
Where are the numbers? Where are the videos of you dodging the marks/not walking into spectral wall and still being owned?
Untill you defend your words with numbers this is pure QQing
Spamming marks? Lol of the day.
Do you even know what marks actually do and their CDs?
@Portel
Still the only I read is: “my mesm must be able to bunker alone two necros for as long as needed or they’re disgustingly OP”
Bunkering its the most stupid concept in a conquest mode. And condis came to change the current meta. That’s what devs want. Stop complaining for not being able to burstdown/bunker any class in 1v2 situations
They just need to rebalance that single combo. Nothing else is necessary, but that single combo needs to be looked at, and it is probably Dhuumfire that is going to need to see nerfs, as almost every condi build relies on terror in PvP.
You can replace burning with some more bleeds and it’ll be the same. That’s why terror damage or duration should be looked at before even thinking in nerf Dhuumfire.
And ofc, a 30 point trait will always be more powerful than a 20 trait point. Believe me, they won’t touch our burning.
oh yeah, another QQ tread from jportell. Why don’t you suggest to reduce the damage on mesmer’s shatter builds?
All I read here is: “pls buff my mesmer, nerf anything else I can’t fight back with my current build cause I’m too lazy to change it”
You know what? You can rely on other classes for condi removal. But no, you think your build should be able to do anything and win any other class easily.
Necros have poor access to boons and that’s why they have great condition abilities.
While other classes have great access to boons and others are more balanced, the strength of necros rely on only on their conditions.
Really, this qqing must stop.
Sure it might be but it does not deny the fact that Necro is at the top of food chain right now.
Necro is balanced now. L2P
kitten . QQ stoped after the latest patch. Why did it start again?
If you nerf Dhuumfire you’re destroying hybrid builds that don’t use terror.
Dhuumfire its ok on engis as a 10 point trait but its OP on necros as a 30 points trait? LolExcept that hybrid/burning necros are the ones that everyone is QQing about. No one is complaining about a standard terror/condi necro because those existed in the exact same form pre-patch as they did post-patch. We’re talking about addressing the build that everyone is crying about and that build is the hybrid 30/30/10 necro. It would make sense to address this particular build but slightly toning down burning. You can still have that build be very viable by slightly reducing the duration and/or proc rate without destroying the build. You nerf terror duration/damage etc and you are then completely destroying the terror build (which isn’t the problem in the first place).
nerfing a little the fears won’t destroy the terror 30/30/10 build. Condition bursting with burning its really ok. Bursting with CC it’s the problem… so fear-up time it’s what everyone is complaining about. That’s why sigil of paralysis was fixed. Maybe that’s the only needed change, we have to wait some time to see…
Nerfing terror is simply not the problem. I don’t see how you guys can think that terror is the issue here. Terror existed pre-patch in the exact same form. Everyone is complaining about burning and how necros can drop everyone around them. This is due to the addition of burning, not terror. Terror damage has always existed in the same form. If you nerf terror you are pigeon-holing every single necro into now running 30/30/10 because it will be the ONLY viable build.
If you nerf the duration or the proc rate of burning you tone necros down to the proper level while still maintaining both builds as viable builds. Ideally I’d like to see some sort of control over how burning is applied. That would add to the skill level of the necro in how they manage their spike.
The complaints of everyone in regards to necro are not because of terror damage. The complaints are because once a necro has dropped burning on you every 5 seconds and then they fear you you can’t do anything about it (well you can, but people complain you can’t).
I’ve already seen people adapt to necros in tournies. People have learned to stun break the fears, focus the necro and start bringing more stability.
I’ll say it again. Nerf the proc rate and/or duration of burning and you tone necros down just the right amount. Nerf terror and you destroy a viable non-OP build and force everyone to then roll 30/30/10/0/0.
If you nerf Dhuumfire you’re destroying hybrid builds that don’t use terror.
Dhuumfire its ok on engis as a 10 point trait but its OP on necros as a 30 points trait? Lol
Because there is no stat that reduces condition damage, with a power build you can have toughness/armor and protection, but with conditions you have nothing and they can be spammed having 10 stacks of any condition in an AoE its too much, so pretty much the class is OP for the lack of any stat that mitigates condition damage, dont try the vit argument because its not.
Some skills erase the condis on you. Its so strong that you won’t believe it!
+1
PS: Dhuumfire its ok. Nerf terror if something needs to be nerfed
Burning its not the problem. Fear up time is. No one complains about the engi same trait that cost only 10 points. Its ridiculous that a 30 points trait be worse than a 10 point trait in other class.
If nerfed no one will ever take Dhuumfire. Terror builds will move to SR and hybrid builds w/o terror won’t be viable anymore. Some builds use Dhuumfire as main source of damage and its ok cause its not that great of a trait.
Don’t nerf things to reduce the build diversity. Terror builds will be viable even without Dhuumfire.
Leave Dhuumfire as it is now.
Ppl are complaining about terror damage not burning damage.
I am answering this Jay guy. I mean it’s a bug unless a dev post an official statement on the subject.
It don’t make any sense death nova doesn’t work with putrid explosion. it’s just a tiny extra damage with an investment of 30 points in death magic. The kittening bone minion doesn’t even run to the target before exploding. It has to be a bug for sure.
(edited by vicious.5683)
bug, until you hear it from a dev.
I found a GOOD warrior build. its top secret. you must beg me to hear it.
you, sir, are the MightyAlTroll of the warrior community.
Just remove burning. I don’t wanna spend point in spite anyways.
other ppl do, and Dhuumfire its for those builds.
They won’t nerf this burning trait. It’s just not that powerful. If you nerf it no one will ever take it, cause it’d be worse than Close to Death. We want build diversity, not the opposite.
I dont care… I do not use Terror… but I love dhuumfire!
I have played Necro as my main for a very long time, this patch did not made us OP, but helped a lot for conditionmancers, at least for me… I am having a lot of fun bleeding and burning people down… torment is cool but it is far from OP, we have it in one skill only and the damage is not that great.
This is like saying: Thieves are not OP because I, as a thief, don’t use stealth.
This whole discussion is about the combo burning/terror, so if you only use Dhuumfire then yeah.. the patch didn’t make you OP.
then you are saying that terror it’s the problem?
Terror hasn’t changed. Its always done the same damage it has now since forever. Necros were considered weak and not viable before. Then ANet adds burning (nothing else changed, torment is frankly useless and has next to no up time to matter) and suddenly necromancers need to be nerfed, starting with terror? kitten? Doesn’t even make any sense.
http://i48.tinypic.com/2pyondu.jpg
I’ve always found them overpowered.One Necro being a top player on one match at once instance in time = Necros being overpowered?
M’kay.
This guy lost the match. Doesn’t matter how many points you got if you lose the game. Only means that the guy run around killing noobs and didn’t care about the team
I gotta ask… what is your definition of a hybrid build?
To me it seems like you are just talking about a regular power build that happens to do the occasional burning.
Either way… there is absolutely no reason for a hybrid build not to take Terror if you run Dhuumfire with it.Hybrids are not compelled to take staff or spectral wall to be viable, so you won’t take terror whatsoever. And Dhuumfire its great for those builds. It’s just not so much ppl have experimented with other builds beside the boring terror/burning FOTM
Again, not running Terror either means you are making yourself weaker than you have to be or it’s a full on power build.
Also, not taking the staff in PvP… how good can that build really be?
Not running terror means that you are not running kittening terror and nothing else. You think terror is the best trait and you use it. I like other traits and utilities more. And I do use staff, I just said its not mandatory.
I Can be as effective as a terror/burning build with my own build and Dhuumfire does great. I don’t want it nerfed not because I use it, but it’s not that powerful to be nerfed.
I don’t want any nerf. If I were a dev, I would reduce the base damage of burning and fear+terror conditions. For all classes in case of burning.
No, you are wrong. Every mmo goes this way. High damage = low defenses. Glass cannon builds its an example.
No you are wrong. In gw2 high damage doesn’t mean you can’t mitigate damage.
The problem is that our class mechanic doesn’t scale with an increasing number of opponents. Other classes however work with a lot of boon access, like aegis: works against 100000 attacks as long as it’s up. Or stealth: you are invisible to every enemy.
Our defense mechanic, high hp + ds, doesn’t work this way.And that’s why you can’t make the comparison or make a general statement like: high damage – low defense. That’s just not how gw2 works.
No, you are wrong(lol). Guardian in general have a lot of blocks> high defense, but low damage. Thieves can hit hard but they are so squishy with low hp. If a thief can hit hard and stealth for too long its considered OP and nerfed.
Same with eles, they were nerfed in his defense capabilities cause they could hit hard and have escapes.
You cant have strong defense and strong damage in the same build without called OP and then nerfed in some way.
I gotta ask… what is your definition of a hybrid build?
To me it seems like you are just talking about a regular power build that happens to do the occasional burning.
Either way… there is absolutely no reason for a hybrid build not to take Terror if you run Dhuumfire with it.
Hybrids are not compelled to take staff or spectral wall to be viable, so you won’t take terror whatsoever. And Dhuumfire its great for those builds. It’s just not so much ppl have experimented with other builds beside the boring terror/burning FOTM
No, you are wrong. Every mmo goes this way. High damage = low defenses. Glass cannon builds its an example.
Other classed have better burning but no one complains.
Guess whakittens for terror/fear that all are asking for nerfs
You guys are thinking only about terror build.
Dhuumfire helps build diversity. If you can’t think of new builds is because you stick to what has been proven useful before.
CHill builds lacked damage before Dhum fire. Now its very viable build. You nerf Dhuumfire and you kill build diversity too.
Devs already said they are looking into the sigil that buff fear duration. so they are going this way.
If Dhuumfire is nerfed terror build can go 0/30/10/0/30 but hybrid got nothing as powerful as Dhuumfire to replace it.
If Dhuumfire is nerfed they should put it in adept 10 point tier. Because it will be weaker than the engi trait doing the same.
So your arguments that there is lack of condition removals just a qq and nothing more!
Many have said it already in this thread: other classes don’t have as effective cleanses as the necro. At some point other classes will get overwhelmed with conditions without being able to do anything about it.
Since necro cant run away so easily as rest, I find it fair that we have some extra dmg.
To everyone who brings this argument: you can’t compensate your lack of escape mechanisms with increasing the damage output. Those are seperate issues.
Ofc you can compensate. Is what anet are going to do. They’ll take damage away from terror/Dhuumfire and we’ll give more life force to buff survivability
Yes? What’s your point? I was saying condo builds with Terror (so, like, all of them) currently deal an appropriate amount of damage. Nerf Terror to soften Terror + Burn stacking and you drop the damage of condo builds below their current totally-appropriate amount of damage.
point its devs should nerf terror damage and not Dhuumfire. Terror builds can take burning to help with dps if terror damage its not enough. Hybrid/chill and other builds won’t get another source of damage/condi cover if Dhuumfire is nerfed.
So don’t touch Dhuumfire!
They put too much effort into the trait’s name choice…. so I don’t think devs change burning to torment.
You can’t make Dhuumfire worse than that 10 point trait of engineers.
I feel good with CD and duration of this burning. It’s a great trait for hybrid/chilling builds. Take away Dhuumfire and you will kill diversity.Reduce the damage on terror it’s a better option. And if you want to do more damage take Dhuumfire, if not, put more points in DM or SR. It’s actually simple.
Reduce the damage on Terror and you kill pure Condi builds, forcing everyone into hybrid if they want decent damage.
Terror build and hybrid build are not the same thing.
If you want more damage you will be glassy
As I said it’s quite simple
You can’t make Dhuumfire worse than that 10 point trait of engineers.
I feel good with CD and duration of this burning. It’s a great trait for hybrid/chilling builds. Take away Dhuumfire and you will kill diversity.
Reduce the damage on terror it’s a better option. And if you want to do more damage take Dhuumfire, if not, put more points in DM or SR. It’s actually simple.
Extra heal for each condi its a little low, I’d like to see it buffed.
Particularly when you have the largest heal pool in the game.
Devs should make 30 points traits in SR so awesome, that terror build would take that trait instead of Dhuumfire.
Dhuumfire its ok, they wont nerf it to make it worst than a 10 point engi trait. IF nerfed, necros will lost build diversity and everyone will be playing terror build
(edited by vicious.5683)
Well, i would like Dhuumfire not be nerfed because of terror !
you are right
burning it’s perfect for some power builds, cause it don’t really needs condition damage to be effective.