Guild Wars 2

Op you are a big noob a mesmer built for dueling (black water/phantasm) is basically unbeatable. Mesmer is not the prob you are, go learn to play instead of posting nonsense on the forums.

We have 4sec reveal in spvp and 3 sec in wvw and pve. Its not the same thing but there is already some separation.

Ok I know sword is gonna be nerfed dec 10 but s/x thiefs are among the lest complained about specs in pve and wvw. They also take more skill to play effectively than the current thief meta builds.

So if possible could we please keep the infiltrators return change spvp only.

Josh Davis

PvP Community Coordinator

“The 6/6 bonus on Runes of Perplexity now have a 8 second cooldown. This was excluded from the patch notes, but we’re in the process of getting them added.”

“Thought you guys would like to know.”
aka Grouch

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Perplexity-runes/page/9#post3235286

Stillmoon.6894:

yak bend is stacked (big number, stupid zerg)
ioj is kinda lame if you are a roamer (small number, 30% smart zerg 70% stupid zerg)
kaineng is kinda abandoned, nearly all the wvw guild left at the beginning of the season and they always fighting by the skin of their teeth (or so i heard)

if you like challenge i think ioj or kaineng is the best place to go (although i heard the community in kaineng is more welcome to new transfers since they are desperate for new blood)

IOJ is great if your a roamer so many people to kill so many things to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQIXC_VHghk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTX0tqx_qHc

Honestly op pet blocking is one of good counters when vsing high burst thiefs.

sminkiottone.6972:

Shonuff.2354:

lol Eng and necro 1 on 1?
In over a year I have never been hurt or killed by a necro,eng or bow ranger.
Do you people even wvw?

Do you play in eb ?

It’s like you have never faced a skilled player, those 3 professions can pull off some of the most powerfull builds.

Exactly this

Sanduskel.1850:

I really don’t understand why y’all are so upset. Some of us simply don’t buy the doom and gloom being propagated here, and we trust anet to do the best for the entire game. We just aren’t naturally pessimistic I suppose. Hang in there, the thief class will be better off.

I really dont understand why you won’t back up you statements by dueling some of us. Its an opportunty for you show everyone you know what your talking about why wouldn’t you take it.

Also in your previous post you used the term broken mechanic did you mean stealth?

Sanduskel.1850:

Most of the melodramatic “I will quit my thief” posts don’t represent the vast thief player base who will keep playing. Most of us appreciate a non-easymode class that doesn’t rely on abusing broken mechanics (ANET’s terminology, not mine). So, not much will change other than the fact that we will have fewer scrubs playing thieves, which is wonderful.

Show me where did they use the term “Broken mechanic” I think you just made that up.

Now in reference to SOS change they said “We are ok with thieves blowing their cooldowns to have longer stealth, and we are ok with theives bouncing in and out of stealth, but we were not ok with thieves maintaining long duration stealth through abusing a single trait.” so in fact there are ok with the current way the thief stealths but this one trait is to powerful and I agree with anet.

So can you show me and link for the term “Broken mechanic”

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

Now Sanduskel you have been trolling the thief forums well and hard for months now, yet have nothing you to prove you are decent thief player(or even main a thief) you have posted no vids, your not high ranked in tpvp, you’ve shown the thief community nothing.

You trolling skillz are second to none I will give you that, but would you at the very lest be willing to duel someone to back you statements? I’ll tell you what ill give you 20gold if you can beat me. So lets have a duel I wont be using my thief this would be an opportunity for you to show what a great position the thief is currently in. Also I’m sure there are a few other thief that play alts that would like to duel you and see if you can back up anything you have said in the forums.

Until you show some evidence you can play half as good as you imply your statements mean nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIZrsaTsXCU pp3v1 build in link

Nope lol 5 thiefs v anything are weak and are only likely to beat a group of rangers. In tpvp the team with the most thiefs loses most of the time. Most vids of the best zerg busting 5 man squads are ussually filled with wars, guards, eleies, and necros.

When guilds do small gvg 5v5 you dont see 5 theif comps because thats would totally kitten them, bunkers spaming aoe cc and condies ftw. Thief is ok in skirmishes and duels but far from the top. The ability to disengage makes theif the best roamer thats it. If a thief try to compete over a camp or sentry point with another class thief loses.

All professions built for dueling beat thief except ranger is 50/50. Its only due to majority of player’s incompetence and lack of experience that a thief can excel. In group fights it only takes one mistake and a thief is done. At higher lvl of play thief is lest desired class.

The amount of ignorance people have when it comes to the thief is laughable.

Come join me on ioj we have lots of stealth ops 1-5 manning towers an keeps. Zerg hunting and harassment, and ganking its alot of fun.

frans.8092:

AikijinX.6258:

The 3 stacks of confusion gets applied quite frequently, and reliably. These stacks are just icing on the cake for the build.

But you’d sacrifice 30% bleed duration for these 4 runes and bleed is large portion of the damage for D/P. For 5 seconds of a 3-stack confusion.

You gain poison with the minor trait in deadly arts Serpents touch and When you go into the 1st tier of deadly arts you can choose the 1st tier trait of deadly arts called Potent poison which Adds 33% poison duration

But steal has a 35 second cooldown, and hence, application of poison and when you go into Deadly Arts you don’t much points left to reduce that cooldown. I like the Sigil of Doom suggestion though, combined with steal you could get a decent poison uptime.

I checked lotus poison last night. The weakness doesn’t stack with each charge out of 5 from spider venom. And the ICD is too long. I do not use sigil of doom.

The wiki does mention weakness doesn’t stack (duration) more then 5 times. But you pass up 5 × 4 seconds weakness when stacking poison from Spider Venom?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQIXC_VHghk

looks great queues gonna be long though

Shanna.4762:

I just want a wvw-viable P/P build T.T Why can’t I haz?

P/P 3v1 its viable but far from optimal

Shadowscamp.8065:

Zacchary.6183:

-Snip-

While I do agree that it’d be more fun to see more builds viable-ish, there are currently two quite good ones. Full Dire P/D and some form of backstab. I hate D/P, but I love D/D. I started playing with P/D as my second roaming build, and it’s almost invincible, if somewhat low on damage output. I just feel so powerful on my thief. You can’t get overwhelmed by multiple "bad" players using skills at random like you can on a Warrior. If they’re inexperienced, you can take all of them down almost with impunity. I’m mostly a solo player myself, and I just don’t see the Thief being weak, playing mostly with D/D right now.

It’s sad for S/X since that’s what I started playing first, but maybe they’ll start working on Sword dual skills after the patch?

Thats the thing though the thief in itself is not very strong its only due to the incompetence of bad players the thief appears to be good. Its when you come across people who know there class and are built to duel/skirmish that you realize the thief isn’t in a great place and you really have to outplay them to win.

Mathias.9657:

I had to stop watching, terrible players that kitten stand right in your caltrops and don’t even realize the ranger is giving your position away clear as day while rapid firing. Not to mention caltrop on dodge gives your position away every time and when an enemy see’s that it’s a BIG RED CIRCLE on the ground.

How can people be so bad… this build is boring it takes you an hour to down someone.

In that first incounter I get that ranger(who I agree is so bad) from like full to 10% in around 10sec but you have to bear in mind there are 6 players of which are 2 guardian and 2 warriors so obviously I can’t just attack carelessly esp since I not running a stun breaker. The second time I open on him he drops in 10secs.

Players of 2-3 die much faster things get be tricky when its 5+ players esp if they wars or guard who have access to lots of cc group support and if build tanky can take awhile to kill. I honestly don’t need that amount of survivability I have and alot of the times I drop a untility and break a venom(most skale venom) to increase my dps. Most players die in around 20sec, its WvW terribad players everywhere actually that is what the majority of wvw is like.

Fade.7658:

Traveler’s runes are better than Perplexity runes imo. An extra utility slot makes a difference. Even Runes of Speed are pretty decent if you prefer more defense.

Not for a condi build.

Your right 500-600 per action and that can easily give an extra 2k-6kdmg and its also an extra condi to cleanse. A pd thief should not be running 6 runes as you have no way to interupt(unless scrop wire) only need 4 for the 3stacks of confusion on hit. Duration after a certain point is not that great as most people are running a fair amount of condi cleanse and condi are rarely on ppl for the full duration.

Torment runes its a nice idea but the appilcation of the aoe torment of the 6th rune is awkward. Its tied with your heal and you have to get dangerously close the the enemy for the torment to land. That WvW for you dummy targets everywhere

Oghier.7419:

Pick one of the following:

- Power/ Precision/ Crit Damage, or
- Condition Damage & survival stats (Vitality or Toughness)

Hybrid builds don’t work on thief. You’re either a power/ crit build or you’re a condition build. The vast majority of D/D thieves go power/ crit. D/D can go condition, but it’s weaker. You’re reduced to spamming one ability, and it’s not sufficiently powerful to be that boring. If you want to go with a condition build, I’d recommend taking a long look at pistol/ dagger.

For good examples of each, google up some videos by “I am Mugi” for D/D (power/ crit) or “Laela Blackbird” for P/D (condition). That will give you some good examples of what good looks like for the two styles.

A final note on cultural armor: It’s for cosmetics, not actual use. Though the lower level sets are actually pretty good when you get them, the T3 stuff is purely for the skin. Exotic armors are a fraction of the price and far better in every way.

hybrids can work though wait till you see my next video it much better

Evernessince.8035:

Sanduskel trolls the thief forum all day, every day. It’s wise not to take his advice.

I can only comment on what I know as a thief, which all I do is WvW. In that reguard, it’s been getting worse.

- Shortbow cluster bomb range was nerfed w/o any buff.
- d/p is about to be made irrelevant
- Shadow refuge is also about to be nerfed to hell.
- anti-stealth traps were introduced
- rangers have an anti-stealth ability on their pe

Im sure I’m missing more but this is only for WvW.

I haven’t read anything about shadow refuge are you talking about infiltrators return?

At higher skill lvl(pvp wise) a thief is closers to the bottom of the ladder. Though on the other hand the thief is the ultimate scrub killer and there is a high number baddies in wvw and hotjoin.

messiah.1908:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/video-My-thief-in-some-wvw-action/first#post3216243

check this and other thread

perplexity wont do u any good but only 3 stack of confusions but some ppl still like them

It actaully very good

Evernessince.8035:

Yeah this pretty much makes my d/p SR build worthless in WvW. Not to mention I won’t get any initiative if I want to pop blinding powder to increase stealth length.

This pretty much just makes everything crappy…

Relax dp still going to be the thiefs strongest set.

selan.8354:

Stx.4857:

Oh and 7k backstabs on a target with armor? Please.

If a thief is built to deal that much damage, a sneeze will kill him. A slight breeze.

lol 7k is pretty low. if u are a light armor then u will see stuff like 13k happening even with full pvt or rabid gear. the problem is that thieves can go ful berserk gear without any risks due to stealth. and stealth is a problem for classes that require a target.

as a mesmer i have little access to aoe and staff and scepter and all phantasms require a target so sometime its pretty frustrating. i dont mind the thieves mobility, but stealth just gives too much of an advantage in gw 2. in every other game u have a way to counter stealth or there was at least a 7 sec cooldown on it.

Errm a mesmer of equal skill should never lose to a thief, seriously!!. Back stab is single target keep you clones at your back and let them take the hit. Also phantasm mesmer and blackwater build are among the strongest dueslist specs in the game if you cant beat a thief as a memser its a very big learn to play issue.

Thief is the main user of stealth. The high burst Perma stealth dp thief spec will be nerfed dec 10 and thief will no longer be able to perma stealth as they are now. Honesty though the spec compared to many other things is not op but incredibly annoying.

Omg lol you basically have to be afk to die to a thief using cloak and dagget only.

Try sword/pistol with signet of malice should make things alot easier fot you.

Visirale.6097:

vincecontix.1264:

Well its been a fun week got lots of great footage of my hybrid thief. CORE been disappointed in you’re skill lvl I thought you’d be better owell on the plus side few of you made into my next wvw pwnage video.

Spend less time witch hunting us and spend more time teaching that baddie second child how to thief plz.

Why you gotta pick on second? and hunting you guys down is alot of fun its was a shame I didn’t get to run into more of you.

Well its been a fun week got lots of great footage of my hybrid thief. CORE been disappointed in you’re skill lvl I thought you’d be better owell on the plus side few of you made into my next wvw pwnage video.

op support theif is viable(better than nothing) if spec right just not desirable and every other class just does it better.

OP lol and yes I do

If the skill was as slow as Cnd yea and arc would be necessary but considering its speed its pretty good in its current state. You just have to learn when to use it, also the small radius allows for counter play and punishes the user if they miss time the skill. I use it constantly in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQIXC_VHghk

ugh pvt gear on a thief is never really a great option even when zerging. Your better off going all Valk gear and Cav trinkets. As already stated 0/30/30/10/0 is a good way to go and you will have a good burst(via d/x) with decent sustain dmg with sb(esp if you get furry from allies) and you will be far from glass.

Erzian.5218:

People are crying because a Skill, that renders the vast majority of cc skills useless and allows you to make up for 293824902380 mistakes at avoiding certain key skills, is getting fixed. Sorry guys but its time to step up your/our gameplay instead of whining.

Let’s be honest. I consider myself mediocre at best. In pvp encounters I dodge randomly (and so does the large proportion of gw2 players) most of the time and I can still win most 1v1 encounters in WvW/spvp as a s/p thief and I am pretty sure I can do so after the nerf, too.
If you consider yourself good, you should be able to do so easily and if you can’t play without a spamable stunbreak, then you are simply not good but getting carried by your class.

WvW doesn’t count the amount bads that don’t know how to pvp and in wrong builds and suboptimal gear is laughable. Now when you refer to spvp do you mean hotjoin or tpvp? If your talking about hotjoin then your statement has no relevance.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just make it a free-for-all battle royale, where everyone is marked as an enemy invader, even those from your own server.

That would be cool anyone not in your party is red. So you could party with anyone and they would be an ally

Nope it can’t be 24 coz it would be to much fun. Then no one would give a kitten about getting into wvw and would just stay in EotM all the time.

Mesmer is a better dueling bclass than thief most of the time a good memser will beat a good thief.

Condi thief are very underrated but after playing with them for a bit you will see the massive draw backs of running such a spec. Any way check some of the fights out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTX0tqx_qHc 1v6+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQIXC_VHghk Garrison troll

TheBandit.7031:

I just don’t understand why the thief needs this kind of buff. This will allow them to be way more mobile too, and classes like the elementalist constantly have their mobility nerfed but thieves get it buffed. Even now there’s no one that can catch a thief or out kite them.

The thing is you don’t understand the thiefs current most viable/popular meta builds(dp sd) are not getting buffed due to the nerf to all the thief initiative regen traits . Lots of thief specs that went heavy into CS line will be lucky to break even after this patch. The changes with initiative will tone down the thiefs stronger specs and buff up the weaker ones. So overall after the patch the thief will most likely be weaker esp if you take into account the heavy nerf on our vigor uptime.

You are obviously not a thief player and don’t have a good understanding of thief traits or builds. So please don’t come in and post things out of ignorance.

Sorry Op you and your friends need to L2p go try some tpvp and you will find that BS thief are the current joke of soloQ. At the moment most of the time the team with the most thieves loses. Even thiefs running full glass cannon can not force a decent bunker off point(with in a reasonable time frame) the fact is with all the healing, blocks, petting zoos and dodges available to other class the thief dps is barely even high enough. So go try a thief out and l2p!!

Op I totally agree I know lots of people who would return to the game if something as simple as 2v2 DM was implemented.

Hi Jon,
There has already been several replies regarding a statement made about Infiltrators Return(cast time) I am not sure if you have had a chance to read them:
"2) Mostly in PvP, this skill can no longer be used by S/D thieves to teleport stomp someone. This is actually the more impactful moment as it occurs more often, but I think it puts the burden on these players to run a second weapon set that can help them in these situations (OH pistol for instance.

I think there has been some misunderstanding on IR and tele stomping. Its not possible to perform a tele stomp with IS and IR alone . Only through the aid of an F1 or utility skill (30-50sec cd) can a tele stomp involving Infiltrators Return be completed. Even then that involves several steps (IS to traget start stomp IR back and then utili or F1 complete stomp).

Its the thiefs only way to safely secure a stomp in group fights and its quite costly not to mention the thief can still be interrupted when performing this type of stomp . Its far more easier for a bunker to perform stability/invulner stomp.

What are your thoughts on this?

Hi Jon thank you for taking the time to post here.

I think the proposed cast time to Infiltrator’s Return will kill Swords build. S/d burst in comparison to D/x is much weaker and the spec needs the mobility from IR to be viable there is so much CC and AOe damage flying around everywhere that 1 or 2 stun breakers is not enough . After LS nerf we are already starting to see the meta shift away from S/d thief. Considering the effort how effective are S/d thief at the moment? So many other class would be a much better addition to a tpvp team. Also there is lots of AI which keeps track on a thief even if he is porting around place. Mesmer are already a pain for S/x thief as the plantasm do lots of dmg and can hit you and be summon from 1200 range.

If this change was to proceed S/d would not be viable anymore. Sp would be hit hard aswell with no access to stealth and with the nerf to vigor IR in its current state essential for this wep set survivability.

You also mentioned teleport stomping which is not possible to do with this skill alone you have to either use steal or a utility(30-50sec cd) to successfully complete a tele stomp. Also a tele stomp can still be interrupted(OH pistol Mesmer, thief toolkit pull of engi ect ect.....) and ranger in down state can still interrupt it. Teleport stomping doesn’t come without its cost and in group fights its the only way for a thief to secure a stomp its much easier for a bunker spec to do a stability stomp.

Another concern is how a cast time would negatively affect the feel and gameplay of sword build across all game modes. Right now with IR as is it feel fluid and neat I think the cast-time would really make the rotation of S/x thief feel clunky and awkward.

Though if you need to nerf Infiltrator’s Return might I suggest increasing the Initiative making it more costly to use but not effecting the user if they remain in the fight.

Domey.9804:

hard to catch should return the incoming disable to the enemy who attacked. then we would be hard to catch. mesmer got this trait…not even GM

Mesmers vigor didn’t get a nerf either(5sec vigor on crit no icd) its also only and adept minor trait not to mention they still have phase retreat on 5-7sec cd but thief swords gets shafted.

Hi guys Shikamaru X from Ioj here got my new vid up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTX0tqx_qHc look forward to seeing many of you on the battle field and possibly featuring in my next vid good luck everyone

Yes it was funny see my thief clones shooting Ether Bolts. I can only imagine what my enemies must have been thinking.
"Oh what the? How is this thief shooting ether bolts"? " Oh nvm its just his clones". "What the heck this thief has clones"!!!
This isn’t only instance I have seen thief clones and I am surprised its hasn’t been brought up before.

Excalibur.9748:

it’s okay just let thief class die in peace so we can all reroll warrior.

I already have a War, while its very easy to be effective for little effort its way to mind-numbingly boring.

Garbage is still garbage no matter how much you dress it up.