Guild Wars 2

Necro and Condi rangers counter engi. Shoutbow and dd ele stalemate.

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall. Wouldn’t it be great for this game to get new players and grow?
WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions. How much do most of us spend fast food, alcohol and other for of entertainment?

WoodenPotatoes HoT pre-purchase review clears up a few misunderstanding and sum things up well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall.

WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions.

WoodenPotatoes pre-order review of HoT this video sums it up well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

Op what are you talking about? You get a free copy of gw2 when you buy HoT. Unless there has been an announcement I haven’t heard about yet.

Engis got more variety doesn’t necessarily look like they are going to be stronger than they are right now in the current meta.

MarkPhilips.5169:

I’m ready to bet for a huge QQ about Mesmer Shatter and Thief d/p

Stay ready

this^^

I really hope they rethink this change. Swiftness enhancing movement skills is also a fun part of the game.

The only thing I would like to see nerfed slick shoes. It should not knock players down if they are not moving. The stun break should be increased by 5secs.

Tissitra.4153:

Tao.1234:

Laraley.7695:

I’ve sad this before, but necro only hardcounters engi if both plays condi, which is not really common anymore.

So power necro doesn’t hard counter condi engi or power engi?

Have you even played 100 matches in PvP with Engineer?

Power necro does not hardcounter either power engi or celestial engi. Rifle generally is very good against necros because of all the cc.

Nope cele is still countered by Power and Condi necro. Not as hard as condi engi but still very clear counter. Condi Ranger is also and soft counter to engis.

Thief is the main thing that is keeping mesmer in check, if not for thief there would be far more mesmer complaints.

This was very interesting ty op.

LB zerker ranger need a a slight nerf for the same reason turrets got nerfed. Its not op per say but to rewarding for the effort req to play. Reduce the range of the lb to 1300 and that would do wonders,

Toxsa.2701:

syxx.7893:

Wow do people hate dieing to rangers. Well, I hate when I die to thieves, their stealth and super mobility should be nerfed so they can’t get away from me. I also think they should remove all obstacles from the arenas so people can’t hide and just openly shoot them. I pretty sure I read this the other day and I agree with the person that complaining about other classes/builds will never end until we are all fighting with sticks and rocks.

Even with stick and rocks, or even without any weapon, thief will be OP regardless.

Video Proof of thief fighting 1 v x without weapons.

https://youtu.be/KlmgJOkFdfM

That vid has nothing to do with spvp.

Absolutely not, its a great way for pvpers to level up alts. Looks like some people just want to complain about anything these days ;/.

TexZero.7910:

1800 gems

or

10$ for a new account…..

yep, i see a problem already.

+

1. Cloaking Device: (stealth when immob)
This is absolutely amazing for WvW especially when roaming there is so much immobilize flying everywhere and with engi limited condi removal this trait is really worth having as part of your set up. It has saved my life countless times and has been a contributing factor of me winning many fights.
2. Automatic Medical Response: (heal skills recharge when below 25%)
Basically a must have for any build I run. It gives you a extra heal and condition removal when your really being pressured. When paired with self regulating defences its really great at giving you a second wind at getting back in the fight. Its a game changing trait.
This vid(Solo Keep Cap) shows how helpful AMR and Cloaking device can be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBhfkJ1J3MY
3. Elixir Infused Bombs: (Bombs give healing)
This trait can really influence an engis game style and is great when creating a supportive healing engi. This+eg super Elixir and the other 2 water fields really allows engi to become a good healer. I think it also promote good active play since the range is quite small and forces a team to coordinate well. Also can be used as part of a viable build in spvp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Z6wJzH37Y I used a healing type decap build in ESL match vsing some the gw2 finest(The Dankening).
4. FireForeged Trigger:
Very easy to make a good build using FT and Eg so would be nice to keep this trait.
5. Sitting Duck: (Apply cripple and vulnerability to enemies you immob)
I have used this several times with with a 3xkit(bomb) rifle build. This trait is really good at covering up the engis other damaging conditions which can be really helpful for engis that dont like to take grenades.
6. Enhanced Performance: (3 stacks of might for 15sec when using a healing skill)
This is a nice trait for might stacking engi, especially when combined with Altruism runes and med kit. Constant 6 stacks of might just by switching in and out of med kit.
7. Stabilized Armor and Protective shield these two traits have really good synergy together and would be nice to have them as options to give an engi extra survivability should he want to spec for it.

This topic deserves more attention.

Yes its bugged, though I’d say 70% of the time it works.

zinkz.7045:

vincecontix.1264:

Assuming your can play engi at high level it is one of the best classes for zerging/roaming. Running Celest mix stats with 3xkit rifle/bomb/Eg/tk. You have lots of aoe dmg, Lots of heals from two water fields, Elixir infused bombs, EG super Elixir and you will give lots of regen and condition remvoal( EG and healing turret).

You have fire fields for might and smoke field for blinds or it can prevent stomps, aid in retreat or step up spikes from stealth. You have CC via Bob and rifle. With all the might rifle and bomb scale well with power. Aslo with TK you single out priority targets pull them in and immob then cc them.

Engi is absolutely amazing for zerging lots of guild are just ignorant of engi capabilities. Also other classes like war are easy to play but engi can potential be more useful it just takes more focus and skill to play.

Wrong, great class for roaming/small group, but sub-par for zerging, a few of the reasons why:

- engi waterfields are sub par to ele, firstly healing turret is also engy heal, ele waterfields are in addition to the heal, secondly ele waterfields can be placed at range so you can place the large one as melee imapct as a cleanse / to blast into.

- Damage, every single damage option for engy is sub-par, nades/FT are subject to retal and good groups have retal up a lot, FT is also short tange which engy struggles with, bombs are too slow, they are fine if you are bunkered up in a choke point with opposition coming on to you, they are terrible in open field against a good group that move a lot. Also in terms of ranged burst damage Necro/ele do far more.

- “Fire fields for might”, they aren’t needed guardians have might covered, in 2012 zergs used fire fields, for a long time it has simply been empower.

- “You have CC via Bob” – firstly is slow, secondly does the opposite to what you want in most cases, e.g – you want a section of your opponents pulled/immobilized into a well bomb, not knocked out of it.

- “With all the might rifle and bomb scale well with power”, problem is bombs are slow, they are also frontline, engy has the most useless stability in the game, so is basically like a necro in that it is reliant on being in a party with two guards, difference is necro delivers far more burst AOE damage and also provides well of corruption and corrupt boon which is maybe the best skill for focusing enemy commander. Rifle has similar problems, best damage is done close range, group has to switch out a warrior or necro for an engy that contributes less overall.

- “Aslo with TK you single out priority targets pull them”, yes good skill, but again, why bother with an engy when other classes do the focus thing better, mes, ranger and necro can do more single focus damage at range than an engy, plus a thief & mes can go deep and get out in a way an engy can’t.

Maybe afer the trait changes / specialisation engy will be better, it will have on demand stability with juggenaut, a melee weapon (I think), looks like it will be healing/blast finishig monster with some of the new traits, but until then there is a reason people don’t use it, and whilst lots of WvW players are bad, you might like to consider that at least a small proportion of players are very good (some played in ESL / were top 50 ranked in team queue etc) and are not as clueless as you might think.

I might add that everything I listed an engi can do it all in one build. I know some good guilds that actually run engi because they have someone competent that can play it. I also used to be consistently in top 50 sq and here is a video of my engi is an ESL match its actually quite similar to the build I described https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Z6wJzH37Y

An engi could easily replace few wars in the frontline though has been been a bit of a shift to pirateship meta but the change to stab is favourable for the engi.

Chaith.8256:

Luku.6542:

I mainly play pvp so is related to this more so than pve. I understand the need for the “nerf” to the turret engineer, but this has now completely messed up the healing turret which for me was the main form of healing.

The turret now often dies before you have a chance to gain anything from it and in most cases dies before it can be detonated, which makes this “nerf” even worse. Why does healing turret have to be part of this nerf? its not OP, not part of a problem? but now it is very hard to use and makes the survivability very bad.

drop the turret on any form of aoe and it dies pretty much as you lay it down and usually before you even have the chance to detonate for the water field heal. These are often the times you need to heal the most and you don’t have time to run 200 mtrs over to the other side of the map to avoid the aoe just so you can drop the turret and get a successful heal.

large and multiple aoe fields with massive condition damage just make this worse, especially when fighting over a capture point

i’m hoping they will fix this, but any suggestions what direction i should go in the mean time? as i’ve now gone from being able to survive a bit of a fight, to dying very quickly….

thx

Well, actually Healing Turret is OP. Try using Med kit, A.E.D, Elixir H, and examine how your sustain changes. Lol.

Maybe a little health boost could be in order, if it’s dying within .5 seconds.

Try dodging away and using it immediately after, should help.

Op on its own or Op when you analyze the entire build when running HT? That said it can be easy at times to stuff up the healing on HT which is something less likely to happen with other heal skills. Anyway things will change when specializations introduced.

Turret engi are terrible now but its prob the way it should be. That said I would still prob rather fight the pre nerf turret engi over a shoutbow war.

Well op who are you to say turret engi is not balanced in pvp? Considering the effort req to play turret engi I think its balanced. My on beef is that these were not limited to pvp only.

Assuming your can play engi at high level it is one of the best classes for zerging/roaming. Running Celest mix stats with 3xkit rifle/bomb/Eg/tk. You have lots of aoe dmg, Lots of heals from two water fields, Elixir infused bombs, EG super Elixir and you will give lots of regen and condition remvoal( EG and healing turret).

You have fire fields for might and smoke field for blinds or it can prevent stomps, aid in retreat or step up spikes from stealth. You have CC via Bob and rifle. With all the might rifle and bomb scale well with power. Aslo with TK you single out priority targets pull them in and immob then cc them.

Engi is absolutely amazing for zerging lots of guild are just ignorant of engi capabilities. Also other classes like war are easy to play but engi can potential be more useful it just takes more focus and skill to play.

Sunshine.5014:

Mesmer/Thief/Warrior meta confirmed with today blog post!

Start attacking from stealth, and the duo can insta burst anything, including guardians, since guardians block are useless now with their unblockable attacks. Warriors will raise in rank because their 12s endure pain can counter the unblockable attacks.

Oh, if the guardian is still alive after that? The mesmer can refresh cool down double moa the guardian (lol). I’ll add two mesmers just for the lulz.

Thief/mesmer/mesmer/warrior/warrior

What kind of unblockable attacks?

Hi guys just thought I would share my opinion on some traits that are really useful and would be great to keep.

1. Cloaking Device: (stealth when immob)
This is absolutely amazing for WvW especially when roaming there is so much immobilize flying everywhere and with engi limited condi removal this trait is really worth having as part of your set up. It has saved my life countless times and has been a contributing factor of me winning many fights.

2. Automatic Medical Response: (heal skills recharge when below 25%)
Basically a must have for any build I run. It gives you a extra heal and condition removal when your really being pressured. When paired with self regulating defences its really great at giving you a second wind at getting back in the fight. Its a game changing trait.
This vid(Solo Keep Cap) shows how helpful AMR and Cloaking device can be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBhfkJ1J3MY

3. Elixir Infused Bombs: (Bombs give healing)
This trait can really influence an engis game style and is great when creating a supportive healing engi. This+eg super Elixir and the other 2 water fields really allows engi to become a good healer. I think it also promote good active play since the range is quite small and forces a team to coordinate well. Also can be used as part of a viable build in spvp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Z6wJzH37Y I used a healing type decap build in ESL match vsing some the gw2 finest(The Dankening).

4. FireForeged Trigger:
Very easy to make a good build using FT and Eg so would be nice to keep this trait.

5. Sitting Duck: (Apply cripple and vulnerability to enemies you immob)
I have used this several times with with a 3xkit(bomb) rifle build. This trait is really good at covering up the engis other damaging conditions which can be really helpful for engis that dont like to take grenades.

6. Enhanced Performance: (3 stacks of might for 15sec when using a healing skill)
This is a nice trait for might stacking engi, especially when combined with Altruism runes and med kit. Constant 6 stacks of might just by switching in and out of med kit.

7. Stabilized Armor and Protective shield these two traits have really good synergy together and would be nice to have them as options to give an engi extra survivability should he want to spec for it.

Overall it would be nice to keep these traits if possible to give then engi more options. In particular Cloaking device and AMR these are must haves.

Morfedel.4165:

So what I hear some people saying is, this is not destroying diversity, except for the diversity for builds that suck?

I for one like experimentation. And what was meta today wasn’t a year ago, and may not be next year. Experimentation sometimes creates new more exciting builds.

So please don’t go around acting like they are just removing builds that “suck.” You never know if someone finds a combination that ends up being excellent.

Except, of course, that entire set of math is changing.

This I am generally always using less common traits and builds and dominating a lot of player that play the meta.

Of all the thing to complain about this is not one of them.

Cloaking device is an Adept trait which makes you invisible(Stealth 5sec) when you get immobilized.

100% agree with you Op, also add cloaking device to the list it really is amazing in WvW.

ToffiKeks.6385:

Hi,

First of all: Great Changes.

But i miss the minor in Inventions: Automated Medical Response. This is essential for an extra water field in fights :/ I hope it is there, hiding in a new trait :’(

Also extra condi removal and bast finisher.

I really hope its not gone, its basically a must have trait in any build I run.

Good question op some of them have been combined, but a lot are still missing or haven’t been mentioned.

Kako.1930:

If it’s true that we’ll only be able to invest into 3 trait lines at once then my mesmer build is shot because I use 2/6/4/2/0.

I hope its not true, it would be limiting builf diversity.

This thread needs more attention!!

Bio Flame.4276:

I don’t think Josh even understands why is it that Turret Engis are so OP.
And he doesn’t understand why is it so frustrating to play against one of them.

Can they be beat? Sure, I kill them all the time but it’s not fun. It’s annoying.
VERY annoying.

And it’s too kitten ed easy to just face-roll with a Turret Engi and still be extremely effective.
The proposed change won’t be enough. Not by a longshot.

Well the thing they are not actually so OP they are just far to rewarding for the effort put in. Turret builds also carry bads like no other build can and in the casual scene(90% of the game or more?) they can dominate.

Honestly the proposed changes are more than enough, there is so much aoe dmg both condi and direct flying around everywhere taking out a turret is gonna be so easy. Just making them affected by burning alone would be a massive change. When you add that turrets can now be crit they will melt it matters of secs.

naphack.9346:

Classes, which can 1v1 and win:
Ranger(Longbow, Trapper), Mesmer(Shatter, Condi), Engineer(Turret(duh),Condi).

Classes, which can kill him in a 2v1: Ranger(Longbow, Condi, Spirits, Trapper), Mesmer(Shatter, Condi), Engineer(Turret, Cele, Condi, Decap), Necro(Condi, Power(needs Lich)), Ele(Staff Zerk).

The problem is, that the current meta features hybrid builds with lots of healing, moderate condi pressure and moderate, but constant damage. Celestial builds get eaten alive by turreteers and meditation guardians just can’t punch through those 27k health.

As for easy build adjustments to counter turrets and strategies:
Ranger: Take Drake. Lightning breath wrecks turrets and the drake just won’t die to turret fire. A trapper can just casually walk in, drop condi and kill the turreteer. Generally, even as power ranger, first load him up with cover condis, wait for him to use overcharge shot(the only immobilize clean besides the 2 condi clean on healing turret overcharge) then immediately pin him down with a cc skill and drop entangle. He won’t be able to get out. As a power engi, you may want to destroy the healing turret before attempting this.
Mesmer: Be a Mesmer. A mesmer can easily solo a turreteer. Just never go on point until you’ve cleared the ranged turret threat. When in doubt, just portal bomb him with some friends.
Ele: Get frost bow. No seriously. GET FROST BOW. In a 2v1, you can just nuke the turrets away in an instant. I didn’t list D/D above, because it’s so specific, but regardless of your build, if you have a frost bow, unless your ally is a thief, you can always 2v1 the turret engi.
Necro: Always 2v1 (or with lich even 2v2) never 1v1. As a powermancer, flush him out with lich form. As a condi mancer, just do your thing.
Engi: If you are an engi you should know the weaknesses of the turret build. Just load him up with grenades till he keels over.
Guardian: Never 1v1. Only 2v1 with one of the classes listed above and only if you know, that person is halfway competent. You are just there to provide pressure, so your mate can do his thing.
Warrior: You are just there to provide meat. stick to the 2v1 clear classes and pressure the turret engi.
Thief: Only 2v1 with the “solo” classes. Yes, don’t even bother 2v1 with the classes listed in the 2v1 department. It’s just such a bad matchup. If you are a condition thief, all of this doesn’t apply, but chances are, if you are a condition thief, you either don’t know, what you are doing, in which case general advice won’t help or you know exactly, what you are doing, in which case, you don’t need advice in the first place.

Add Cele ele staff and dd both can 1v1 turret engi no prob.

Supreme.3164:

vincecontix.1264:

style.6173:

@OP:

I’ve been saying for a long time that the issue across all engis is sustain. Of all your ideas, this one should have implemented:

Increase Healing Turret cooldown.

I’d also like to see a 5 second cooldown before the healing turret can be destroyed.

Why current engi meta builds have very limited condition removal and lack of stab they are more susceptible to condi and cc when compared to other classes. Also if you do some math and compare engi healing to Cele ele staff or dd, shout/bow wars, Guardians, and Condi/regen ranger you with find they don’t really have to much sustain at all.

And those builds invest heavily in healing respect to engi..what do you expect?
I run all the builds you mention and yes, they all takes traits and utilities to heal and remove conditions, why don’t you engies do the same?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Response

Fair point though as it still stands engi current meta builds are still weaker to condis then other builds. Engi could bring more condition removal but than they wouldn’t be as good offensively just like other classes they would have to make a trade off between more offence or more survivability.

Also you could just bring a Necro to hard counter the engi. I would even say a condition ranger is a soft counter against current meta engi builds. Then you have dd, staff ele and shoutbow wars that can easily face off against an engi.

Darksteel.8412:

engineer…the brokenly OP random dodgeroll class get’s it’s long awaited and well deserved nerf….and people cry and say it’s unviable in pve….it’s pvp that needed this nerf, get over it…. engi is broken OP atm and needs a nerf and any honest and good pvp player knows it, Imean why can’t I hit a turret extra (crit) hard…why can’t a turret burn (bleed/poison on turret would be weird) be honest and l2p…this is needed and needed badly

For pvp yes for wvw/pve no.

style.6173:

@OP:

I’ve been saying for a long time that the issue across all engis is sustain. Of all your ideas, this one should have implemented:

Increase Healing Turret cooldown.

I’d also like to see a 5 second cooldown before the healing turret can be destroyed.

Why current engi meta builds have very limited condition removal and lack of stab they are more susceptible to condi and cc when compared to other classes. Also if you do some math and compare engi healing to Cele ele staff or dd, shout/bow wars, Guardians, and Condi/regen ranger you with find they don’t really have to much sustain at all.

The proposed changes would kill off turret engi. Basically any meta build would now be able to deal with them. Those who are saying its not going far enough really haven’t grasped how much of a difference being able to crit, burn, bleed and blind turrets, it is going to make taking them out so easy. I dont have a problem with turret build becoming useless coz lets be honest they aren’t really healthy for the game.
My main issues are this change might be killing off any potential new engi meta builds for wvw and pve. As few have stated the turret reflect trait can be so helpful in wvw esp with the current range meta and turrets are already dying fast enough as it is there.
Also would this change effect engi supply crate? if so then its a nerf to basically all engi builds.

Guys if you can think of a better way to help address the turret engi issue please go have your say in the spvp forum. Once changes are made it takes a really long time to revert them if they go to far.

Proposed changes would kill off turret engi. Basically any meta build would now be able to deal with them. Those who are saying its not going far enough really haven’t grasped how much of a difference being able to crit, burn, bleed and blind turrets, it is going to make taking them out so easy. I dont have a problem with turret build becoming useless coz lets be honest they aren’t really healthy for the game.

My main issues are this change might be killing off any potential new engi meta builds for wvw and pve. As few have stated the turret reflect trait can be so helpful in wvw esp with the current range meta and turrets are already dying fast enough as it is there.

Also would this change effect engi supply crate? if so then its a nerf to basically all engi builds.

robertul.3679:

It’s not like turrets were useful in pve or wvw to start with.

Actually the reflective shield on turrets is very useful in wvw. Turtets also do alright if you are defending an area a tower for example. I have also found flame turret to be useful against melee builds(smoke field).

If possible could these changes be kept a spvp thing only? Or could turret health be significantly increased in wvw and pve.

I only hope these changes are PvP only because I just started playing again and have some ideas for a semi turret wvw build. Turret engi and pve is not strong at all.

Hi guys just wondering how you ranger players feel the class does against engi? I had a bit of a break from the game and during my first couple days back rangers in spvp and wvw roaming seem to be really good against engi and giving me the trouble out of any class.

I am talking about multiple builds lb zerker, conditions trap ranger, and even some SD/sb spirit rangers are quite tough. So how do majority of you feel the class does against engi in both wvw roaming and spvp?

Sagat.3285:

+1 make it stop knocking down if you are not moving also.

+ this needs to happen ^^

An elite with a 40-60sec CD would be nice. I only take crate because there isn’t really a viable alternative.