Guild Wars 2

Eh I think currents sigils are fine all there are available to all profs and whose to say how much sigils+runes should impact your build?

So lets make a list of current best sigil options(Spvp/WvW).

Energy, Battle, Doom, Intelligence, Geomancy, Torment, Coruption, Bloodlust, Air, Fire Generosity, Bursting, Malice, Incapacitation, Force, Agony, Hydromancy, Nullification, Strength and Cleansing.

Does anyone have any other sigils they consider using depending on there build or team comp?

Rentapest.6503

"Necro’s should not be able to fear entire groups of players off a cliff into oblivion. It’s rediculous.

Why is nothing done about this? Either ban these players or nerf the ability. Simple."

I know its op comment from a previous thread but..... Also sad part is majority of players of are probably at same skill level as the op.

Does anyone know the comps and build used by the 4 top teams?

Ranger lb damage is not op but its to much reward for very little effort. It the same with turret engi in competitive play they are not op but it can carry a bad player hard. Good players should aviod these specs because the skill ceiling is low. Though bads main them coz it allow them to not be useless.

Ranger lb damage is not op but its to much reward for very little effort. It the same with turret engi in competitive play they are not op but it can carry a bad player hard. Good players should aviod these specs because the skill ceiling is low. Though bads main them coz it allow them to not be useless.

I will also add do you guys believe med guard is a really optimal choice for high level tpvp? because a condition thief can beat med guard.

Ok the guys saying its a learn to play issue are wrong because med guard counters zerker thief. All things have counters and this is one of the counter for zerker thief. That being said thief odds are much better than zero.

This guy is one of the best warrior I have seen in WvW.

Op all things have counters and different roles to play, also I see you complaining a lot lately.

Klonko.8341:

vincecontix.1264:

Eh its the grand scheme of things sigils are fine. There have been complaints about fire+air combo, Doom+geomancy, Inteli+(something?) there are also many other good sigils. Obviously you can only use 2 at a time. Who is to say what is op when there are many good options.

And even more worst option…

Your right there are some pretty bad sigils but my point was as great as battle and energy are they are not the go to sigil for everyone. Depending on your spec there might be better options.

Eh its the grand scheme of things sigils are fine. There have been complaints about fire+air combo, Doom+geomancy, Inteli+(something?) there are also many other good sigils. Obviously you can only use 2 at a time. Who is to say what is op when there are many good options.

Steb.2571:

vincecontix.1264:

Steb.2571:

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Do you still play this game, you dinosaur?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Balthazar

Ain’t no might duration.

Fair enough, I thought it gave might duration as well. Either way, your still getting an aoe burn for 4s+ every time you heal, that alone is strong as kitten, when your heal also blast finishes, aoe heals and clenses, and has the highest healing per second. Balth is still run by several engi’s, though strength is also an insanely strong option when you have 0s swap cooldown, and can get the swap buff instantly, every time it’s off CD.

The fact you think engi isn’t overpowered is hysterical though.

Op compared to what though? Engi comparing himslef to Celest might stacking Ele, might stacking hambow/axebow Wars, and Necros, might have a different pov than a thief comparing himself to an Engi.

Compered to the game in it’s entirety. It brings too much to the table, has a counter for everything, and has a solution for nearly any problem (both offensive and defensive) aside from condi transfer.

It’s good in nearly every situation, and has virtually no weaknesses (again, with the exception of condi transfer). It has everything, and sacrifices nothing, that’s literally a textbook definition of overpowered. There’s no trade-off or balance.

Ok I am sorry I wasted my time relpying to you. You are obviously totally bias and clueless.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Party composition is important but many times players forget there are players better than others.

But assuming that players and all competitively highly skilled what is the best comp?

Steb.2571:

Chaith.8256:

Steb.2571:

Sorry, I thought an AOE burn on heal was pretty strong, with additional burning and might duration, on top of running might sigil for might stacking.

Do you still play this game, you dinosaur?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Balthazar

Ain’t no might duration.

Fair enough, I thought it gave might duration as well. Either way, your still getting an aoe burn for 4s+ every time you heal, that alone is strong as kitten, when your heal also blast finishes, aoe heals and clenses, and has the highest healing per second. Balth is still run by several engi’s, though strength is also an insanely strong option when you have 0s swap cooldown, and can get the swap buff instantly, every time it’s off CD.

The fact you think engi isn’t overpowered is hysterical though.

Op compared to what though? Engi comparing himslef to Celest might stacking Ele, might stacking hambow/axebow Wars, and Necros, might have a different pov than a thief comparing himself to an Engi.

Eh it was only a matter of time b4 another war op thread popped up.

DrLane.5284 just wondering what in your opinion is the strongest comp assuming the players are skilled enough.

shimmerless.4560:

vincecontix.1264:

shimmerless.4560:

vincecontix.1264:

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

you know what else dies to a coodinated burst that fast?
everything else in the game

congrats on the great post man

No 2 professions is going to kill an Ele, Warrior, Guardian, a Thief with Shadowstep&Refuge, a Mesmer with blink/decoy, in 5 seconds. All these professions have multiple stunbreaks and o-kitten buttons that they can layer. Most professions can expend cooldowns and exit harm’s way, and will need to be hard swapped to LATER.

If it comes down to it, you can hit up to 3 stances. Up to 3 Cantrips. Stunbreak, Stunbreak/teleport, Shadow Refuge. You get the idea.

The point is, which you are being too kitten dense and trolly to observe, is that Engineer defensive CDs blow. They’re god awful. They don’t displace you, or drop you as a target / stop the pain train for more than 3 seconds. The only reactive ability that is capable of doing this is the Elixir S Stealth. The problem with this is that you get Steal/Doom on you as soon as you exit your Invuln, and the stealth is easily interrupted. In the first place, Elixir S is the only one that’s really capable of doing any of these things. What if you aren’t packing Elixir S and Toolkit? God forbid anything else be brought into PvP.

Stop you are making to much sense most people won’t be able to take it.

It makes zero sense, Engineers have dozens of displacements and the class doesn’t even even need to be on point to put out tremendous pressure in the first place. The stealth is easily interrupted? Oh my tears, welcome to our world.

If you want to run triple kits/two kits + gun then suck it up and make do with what you’ve got. Two rootless blocks and a natural reflect (on sub-minute cooldowns), hp/s through the roof, permanent swiftness/vigor, every defensive condition under the sun, gosh it must be rough! There are classes that play with just two utilities as a sacrifice for the team effort, the solipsism when it comes to some of you is astonishing.

Thing is though compare to other class engi meta builds defenses suck. That’s what a few player are complaining about. Engi that is cc, stun or dazed can’t block, stealth or use heal/condi clear.

Though players don’t bare these things in mind when making there complaints.

Apparently the post you’re quoting went in one ear and out the other because I was specifically making light of the idea that this is somehow a unique burden for Engineers to bear. Most classes can’t heal when stunned, there are many other common forms of stealth with much longer and more obvious casting times. Why do you think Withdraw is so popular even on D/P?

This is exactly what I mean about Engi aficionados, it’s like they live in their own little world where they don’t know and don’t care to know anything about the rest of the game and they think that legitimate weaknesses are “mild channels” and “I’m weak to focus fire”. Who isn’t?

My point was that the burden is actually heavier on engi in regards to current meta build. Some classes are more susceptible to focus fire than others, engi is one of them.
Other classes have better ways to avoid and mitigate damage which was already listed in this thread.

I main a thief not engi and if you check my history you can see I am constantly defending them.

Also the op created this thread lists a bunch of things he thinks that make engi op. He doesn’t go into any detail or listing specific offending builds.

The might duration needs to be increase to atlest 10secs.

shimmerless.4560:

vincecontix.1264:

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

you know what else dies to a coodinated burst that fast?
everything else in the game

congrats on the great post man

No 2 professions is going to kill an Ele, Warrior, Guardian, a Thief with Shadowstep&Refuge, a Mesmer with blink/decoy, in 5 seconds. All these professions have multiple stunbreaks and o-kitten buttons that they can layer. Most professions can expend cooldowns and exit harm’s way, and will need to be hard swapped to LATER.

If it comes down to it, you can hit up to 3 stances. Up to 3 Cantrips. Stunbreak, Stunbreak/teleport, Shadow Refuge. You get the idea.

The point is, which you are being too kitten dense and trolly to observe, is that Engineer defensive CDs blow. They’re god awful. They don’t displace you, or drop you as a target / stop the pain train for more than 3 seconds. The only reactive ability that is capable of doing this is the Elixir S Stealth. The problem with this is that you get Steal/Doom on you as soon as you exit your Invuln, and the stealth is easily interrupted. In the first place, Elixir S is the only one that’s really capable of doing any of these things. What if you aren’t packing Elixir S and Toolkit? God forbid anything else be brought into PvP.

Stop you are making to much sense most people won’t be able to take it.

It makes zero sense, Engineers have dozens of displacements and the class doesn’t even even need to be on point to put out tremendous pressure in the first place. The stealth is easily interrupted? Oh my tears, welcome to our world.

If you want to run triple kits/two kits + gun then suck it up and make do with what you’ve got. Two rootless blocks and a natural reflect (on sub-minute cooldowns), hp/s through the roof, permanent swiftness/vigor, every defensive condition under the sun, gosh it must be rough! There are classes that play with just two utilities as a sacrifice for the team effort, the solipsism when it comes to some of you is astonishing.

Thing is though compare to other class engi meta builds defenses suck. That’s what a few player are complaining about. Engi that is cc, stun or dazed can’t block, stealth or use heal/condi clear.

Though players don’t bare these things in mind when making there complaints.

Oh op I agree with you that comp is possibly the strongest comp in the game.

I hate vsing a team with competent thief and mesmer duo its a nightmare they burst you down so quickly. Then move on to next target and they are not easy to pin down.

Chaith.8256:

sinject.4607:

you know what else dies to a coodinated burst that fast?
everything else in the game

congrats on the great post man

No 2 professions is going to kill an Ele, Warrior, Guardian, a Thief with Shadowstep&Refuge, a Mesmer with blink/decoy, in 5 seconds. All these professions have multiple stunbreaks and o-kitten buttons that they can layer. Most professions can expend cooldowns and exit harm’s way, and will need to be hard swapped to LATER.

If it comes down to it, you can hit up to 3 stances. Up to 3 Cantrips. Stunbreak, Stunbreak/teleport, Shadow Refuge. You get the idea.

The point is, which you are being too kitten dense and trolly to observe, is that Engineer defensive CDs blow. They’re god awful. They don’t displace you, or drop you as a target / stop the pain train for more than 3 seconds. The only reactive ability that is capable of doing this is the Elixir S Stealth. The problem with this is that you get Steal/Doom on you as soon as you exit your Invuln, and the stealth is easily interrupted. In the first place, Elixir S is the only one that’s really capable of doing any of these things. What if you aren’t packing Elixir S and Toolkit? God forbid anything else be brought into PvP.

Stop you are making to much sense most people won’t be able to take it.

Its because Warrior and thiefs have been nerfed and they make up a big part of the players base.

killahmayne.9518:

i didn’t think the meta celestial engi build actually stacks might

Even though engi are capable of it the current meta build dont but some people keep saying it like its a thing. Currently Ele and wars stack lots of might but in the grand scheme of thing how op is ele really? Is it better than wars? would group be kitten by bring a guard or necro?

laquito.5269:

Engi and especially Ele benefit from Celestial + Might stacking so much more than other classes, it’s unreal. Cele is the only reason Ele is still in meta, cuz they abuse the kitten out of this combo.

Can you please tell what is the mights stacking celestial meta engi build that some people keep bring up?

That type of engi spec has lots of offensive but is so easy to focus down. 1 stun break on a 1min cd and 2 condition cleanse every 20sec. Its an offensive engi build but very very susceptible to condition and cc. If I am on my thief I just spam daze an let my team kill him.

hmm I just feel like it I didnt log into the forums I would never know tournament where coming up. Maybe an in game message would also help a bit.

Contrary to what people believe gw2 is one of the most balance mmos around. I agree with sizer but we seriously need a new game mode already the conquest is already stale for those of us who have been playing the game for over 1 or 2 years. 2v2 and 3v3 type dm type stuff would breath some new life into the game.

Also I think Anet need to advertise better if they want to grow.

Edit: In game leaderboard system and better rewards for higher ranked player(well players the hold a spot with in a bracket playing a certain amount of game per week).

DeceiverX.8361:

Artaz.3819:

dancingmonkey.4902:

So what I’m seeing is this:

Based on my highly anecdotal and extremely biased experience, I think a skill or weapon is overpowered, and because I state my opinion with stronger language and believe in it more strongly than I believe in any sort of factual or counter anecdotal arguments that don’t agree with mine, I believe the game developers should listen to my highly biased opinion about balance, and balance the game just for me.

It couldn’t possibly be that I need to adjust my skill level, tweak my build, adjust my gear, change my utilities, or change how I play, to compensate with a new element that previously did not exist within the game. That’s absurd. Clearly, anything that I can’t facetank and win against is OP.

Or just maybe… you refuse to look at the momentum and swing of the game meta due to one particular ability.

Hint, do the back of the hand math (make it non anecdotal) and realize that Rangers actually now have the #1 burst attack ability in the game (and still a fully ‘functioning’ pet for all things burst/utility during as well).

Or just wait for the math experts (like DnT or some source) to publish.

Absolutely untrue regarding burst potential, sorry.

Unless you’re talking about a GC ranger using RF with 25 might from other people on a 25 vuln uplevel while flanking and with full endurance + scholar runes versus a non-GC/buffed anything.

Thieves’ self-access to might and damage modifiers nets them by far better burst potential. CnD + Stab deals way more damage than RF, and thieves have equal access to damage modifiers under lower-power builds, even when comparing the use of utilities like SotW.

One one skill? Yes, okay, they deal the most damage. But I frankly consider CnD + Stab one skill. If you’re using CnD, and you’re going to deal damage, you’re stabbing, and it’s going to occur likely in far less than or near 2.5 seconds, anyways. And if the stab combo is executed immediately? The thief just has additional time for autoattacks or HS which will throw the thief’s damage way beyond that of the ranger’s, since its pet is probably still in its idle animation, running at its target, dead, or simply lacks the damage of dagger mainhand thief AA.

And if you should do some more research on burst potential, rangers aren’t even close to the top of the list in the time it takes ti execute RF. Hint: Ele has the best burst damage in the entire game by a very large margin.

And neither are OP, and neither are particularly telegraphed.

And this is coming from a thief main. Rangers are nothing to worry about. If anything, SoS is what’s making them too easy to play – throw a cast time on it with interrupt potential and then we’ve got a truly balanced kit and plenty of scrubs dropping the class when they can’t handle dying so quickly with no survivability (as GC ranged DPS should encourage).

But unlike other zerker specs ranger burst is so easy to do and he can do it from relative safety. If thief want to do any real damage in a group fight he had put himself in danger esp with all the cluster kitten aoe damage everywhere.

Ele burst isn’t as frequent and atlest take some skill to get off. Its also very easy to close a 900 gap.

Jim Hunter.6821:

vincecontix.1264:

Ranger are not op 1v1 but its to easy for them to do the damage they do from range. Thats why there is so much qq about them. Majority of players are not good but that doesn’t matter much for ranger in lots of circumstances.

Just pew pew from range and do a lot of damage if people get a bit close, stealth gs away then repeat. This is allowing lot of bad player that couldn’t do this kind of damage on different classes be useful on a ranger. Its to rewarding atm.

This is a good thing. People shouldn’t be able to just ignore ranged damage. They can adapt to deal with it or die and qq on the forums.

The are many other classes with range damage yet ranger lb is the one being brought up (a lot!). Its just to easy to do the damage they do from over 1200 that really is the heart of the issue.

Ranger are not op 1v1 but its to easy for them to do the damage they do from range. Thats why there is so much qq about them. Majority of players are not good but that doesn’t matter much for ranger in lots of circumstances.

Just pew pew from range and do a lot of damage if people get a bit close, stealth gs away then repeat. This is allowing lot of bad player that couldn’t do this kind of damage on different classes be useful on a ranger. Its to rewarding atm.

jcbroe.4329:

I actually find it extremely interesting that this topic is suggesting what it is suggesting given that a ton of people I know in the game consider the tanky condi/hybrid/etc builds to be cheese builds that rely on passive mechanics to win, where as the “zerk LB/GS” build is being considered “man mode,” or being skill intensive comparatively to play since it relies almost 100% on managing skills and positioning and reacting (as opposed to passively “sponging”) to opponents efforts.

Very interesting.

Anyhow, the game is right around where you would expect to see in WvW, with more players in general choosing to run power options since power scales better for large group play than condi does (given foods and AoE cleanses and etc).

So it is only natural that Rangers take their place doing ranged power damage alongside Mesmers, Eles, and Wells Necros (though necros are arguably more midline than backline).

ANYHOW, yeah. Most people that would otherwise be playing the melee stylized builds are probably still enjoying the change of pace of playing the buffed to viability playstyle as opposed to the same old build they’ve been running forever now.

In the meantime, it’s basically a game of footsies between glass vs glass fights of rangers and thieves. Just remember to play to the rangers weaknesses in the meantime (aka dodge the rapid fire, close the gap, blind/dodge the hilt bash + maul combo, and tear down the ranger, right through the defensive cooldowns. Both LB and GS are one trick pony sets).

Running glass zerker is still considered man mode though LB zerker are not. A skilled zerker ranger used to be respected if played well. Now they are joke’s of gw2.

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Cynz.9437:

dancing didn’t provide any facts either really

i agree with OP, celestial + might sigils/runes are really problematic and almost mandatory if you want to play to win in pvp

if i recall correctly, even devs said themself runes/sigils shouldn’t be build defining but support it…..

i still think reducing max amount of might stacks in pvp would be good step toward fixing this issue and intoduce more build varierity

You know not sure I agree with you, from a thief’s perspective sure celestial+might is strong. Though from wars, guards, ele, engi, necro its not really an issue.

Also coordinated spikes from thief+mesmer zerker duo are reall strong.

celestial + str runes/int sigils are strong and meta defining because they allow tanks and hybrids dish out dmg comparable to glass builds which kind of nullifies any logic behind having glass builds to sacrifice any survival for dmg

yes might stacking was in game before but runes/sigil addition allowed to extend might duration and stacking to the point where getting 20 even 25 stacks became pretty easy for some builds while not sacrificing much of survival for it (if any at all)

int sigil same issue: allows certain builds completely ignore pecision stat and invest more into survival while getting crits from weapon swaps ( sup eles, wars, engis, guards)

allowing 2 sigils on 2H weapons and splitting ICD on sigil made situation even worse

i do not think that Anet would revert ICD and 2 sigils on 2H change so i think runes/amule/sigils need to be adressed in pvp

You know might affects other stats build as well? Wouldn’t a zerker class with 20+ stacks of might do insane damage?

IMO the change to sigils was good as it allows for a larger variety of builds.

With regards to Intel sigils the bufg was necessary to make it viable, an yet man player still run something else.

Also there are still a lot of meta specs that don’t run celestial.

Cynz.9437:

dancing didn’t provide any facts either really

i agree with OP, celestial + might sigils/runes are really problematic and almost mandatory if you want to play to win in pvp

if i recall correctly, even devs said themself runes/sigils shouldn’t be build defining but support it…..

i still think reducing max amount of might stacks in pvp would be good step toward fixing this issue and intoduce more build varierity

You know not sure I agree with you, from a thief’s perspective sure celestial+might is strong. Though from wars, guards, ele, engi, necro its not really an issue.

Also coordinated spikes from thief+mesmer zerker duo are reall strong.

In lots of cases engi and else fill the same roles but ele meta builds have access to stab, more boons, condi removal, multiple stun breaks, and better mobility.

Engi meta builds mostly have one stun break and very limited condi removal they are so easy to pin down in team fights. Honestly it requires a lot more effort staying alive as an engi vs other profs.

Esplen.3940:

Watch this, then, please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tcjVz12Ago

That is a great video.

Mesmer have been performing better recently due to the slight buffs and reduced numbers of thiefs playing. Its regard to meta builds thief>Memser>Almost everything else.

Build looks good, lacks mobility but would be great in a havoc group.

Great video ;-)

the krytan assassin.9235:

Wow just lol….
might aswell give the tiefs a skill which makes him invulnerable for 10 minutes and give him wings in wvw so he can just fly in every tower.

Tbh i don’t know any class more tanky then the thief, you’ve got loads of shadowsteps, stuns, stealth and regen(if traited). You’re complaining about the fact that they lack surviveability, but the primary reason why they lack that surviveability is because you’re most likely going full beserker, what else do you expect then?

Also a permanent stealth button will cause nothing but trouble, since it will result in massive dungeonskipping and sneaking into enemy wvw keeps.

Skeletor was exaggerating a little bit but you are wrong. In MMOs the word tank/tanky means one is able to soak up a lot of damage. The thief survive with active defense eg ports, evades, blinds and stealth.

The don’t tank damage also in group setting thief is probably one of the easier targets to focus down.

So what is the might stacking meta engi build people are talking about atm? Engi can stack lots of might though I havent seen many engi that runs a spec that do so.

swinsk.6410:

Run p/d dire in WvW. Only viable left build left for wvw…

Power glassy thiefs still way better for small man havoc groups.

Op you must be trolling right now.

ghaleon.2861:

Phaeton.9582:

token ‘dps guard says hi’ post

We know dps guards hard counters thief bro, but the thief hard counters all the zerkers except medi guard. The ele is forced to play tanky dps[celestial} because a thief will 1 shot the ele if he played S/D. The thief hard counters the Zerker ranger and the mesmer. You get my point, some skills like consume plasma shouldn’t exist. And I’m not asking for a huge nerf to the thief class. All saying is give all the zerker specs a fighting chance. That’s why everybody plays tanky dps.

So your the expect on why everyone plays tanky DPs? Um who are you to say other zerkers don’t stand a chance against current meta thiefs? Also I see a lot more zerker lb rangers than zerker thief’s lately.

Chokolata.1870:

Celestial only gets strong with Might stacking, but then again, so does every other build. Might is the elephant in the room here.

This^^ a lot of people seem to forget might stacking isn’t exclusive to celestial specs.

I found this to be an interesting read.

Prysin.8542:

Neptune.2570:

As a shatter Mesmer I like the relationship between mes and thief atm. Yes, the thief is still a natural counter to mes, of which I am ok with. The difference since the patch is now if I pick up on a thieves mistake, I can actually punish him for it.

yh, atm zerkers are mostly balanced (cept mediguard which instagibs you and heals up like nothing happened)

Well if we are just comparing zerker specs yes med guard is so strong. Though in the current meta they are fine from what I have seen so far.

ghaleon.2861:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

And nerfing thief wouldn’t change that.

It would actually, why should thief be the best zerker spec that’s viable in high end tpvp? I would like to see S/D zerker ele and other spec being played too.

Thing is though thief has to run zerker to be viable. Other profs can run Celestial, Rabid, Knights, and zerker aswell. In addition thief is closer to the bottom in current meta so think long and hard b4 you make silly posts like this one.

I have seen lots more rangers and eles than engis lately. Also eles are harder to focus down.

Maybe thief should play bunker? or celestial or condi spec at high level pvp? oh wait!!! /sarcasm off.