Guild Wars 2

NinjaEd.3946:

warriorjrd.8695:

NinjaEd.3946:

I don’t see this patch making ranger op, since the pet still is going to drag us down. It helps a lot by making power ranger viable. Yes viable, just not optimal or best in slot for group comp.

The pet only drags us down in certain scenarios, in others the pet is invaluable. Obviously if you’re zerging and it’s impossible for your pet to dodge all the AOE, it will slow you down. But roaming, or small scare 5v5 etc, the pet is far from a liability.

The damage and boons/conditions it applies is nowhere near as impactful as others have it, even if they have some decent F2 ability. In pve the pet messes up and dies from environmental hazards more than anything, in wvw its either a liability or background noise, and in pvp its still either a liability or background noise. Half the time the pet will chase the enemy and miss because the simplest of terrain can throw them off.

Atleast with the suggested changes ranger is getting, power builds can be a force in a fight sniping people for focus fire or help their pet better with the might on axe auto attack + fortifying bond and companions might (easy 25 stacks) for a high damaging pet. Still a majority of the pet mechanic is going to anchor ranger down from really going anywhere.

You’re using the wrong pets if you think they are “background” noise in pvp. I can agree that PvE and WvW (zerging not roaming) they aren’t the greatest. But once you scale down to spvp or wvw roaming, it comes down to how you use the pet, because they are useful.

I see people using the wrong pet for the job all the time. Choosing what pet you take is just as important as what weapons you take, people don’t ever seem to realize that.

Archaon.9524:

warriorjrd.8695:

Archaon.9524:

Zardul.3952:

deathmatch 10v10
everyone gets 2 lifes.

res ability like warbanner only effect 1 person. not 5.

kill each other until the team left standing wins.

10 celestial wars with banner gg

deathmatch with downed state will never work, let alone is not even close to what gvg is supposed to be… (GvG is not dat noskill zerg vs zerg pve heroes used to do in wvsw, that’s just an insult to pvp and even more to gw1’s gvg)

Put a group together and fight one of these “no skill zerg v zerg” guilds in a 15v15, and after you’re done getting steamrolled, come back here and tell me how little skill you must have to not be able to beat those skilless “pve heroes”.

You have fun with your conquest game, that has more bunkering points than actual player killing, while I actually enjoy something that is closer to deathmatch. Tpvp is a joke when you think of what PvP means. It’s conquest, give me a deathmatch gamemode in heart of the mists, and maybe you could call that pvp. Right now it’s whoever gets knocked out of the circle and whoever runs to the points faster. Stop kidding yourself bud.

already did for testing like one year ago since there were some ppl like "come for a 8v8 deathmatch and we will own you outside conquest mode… " and bs like that so…8 r50+ (Old rank system, r55 required same amount of points like 80 now) randomly picked up vs 8 ppl from a top sfr wvsw guild (So top guild from top server)…deathmatch at legacy graveyard…ended up with all wvsw guys stomped with our 10 guys all up, they didn’t even want to go for second try….i was on shatter mesmer at that time and they were attacking my clones rofl…nough said, without cakes and candies buffs and insane gear/level advantage fighting on same level where only skills matters they had no chance (I remeber they did all their might stacking blasting bs too before starting rofl) I can try to find the screens too if you want..on a 15vs15 with the coordination and focusing a team with high rank ppl would have pve guys would probably die not even knowing what happened…i already imagine 3-4 s/f eles on ts istantly bursting down 3-4 ppl…would be great fun

Lmfao. “top SFR wvw guild” “SFR top wvw server”. You really have no idea how wvw works do you? If you fought against SFR you most likely fought some T1 bads, as most of T1 is just blobbing bads. Try going to silver league or actually gold league now, where there are actually good guilds. Unless you fight a top guild you can’t say anything, and considering you fought against SFR one year ago, you couldn’t have fought a good guild.

Ristillath.6745:

warriorjrd.8695:

Ristillath.6745:

warriorjrd.8695:

Ristillath.6745:

T raw.4658:

Ristillath.6745:

You really believe people want to see the current GvG where 20 ppl just running into each other and everwhere something explodes and you cant see sh*t?
GvG matches have like 300 viewers which tpvp tourney has less than that. Even the tpvp tourneys that aren’t that popular have more than the double of that.

I believe the Agg vs TA match had 2.5k viewers with all 3 servers queueing obsidian sanctum…so you were right in a sense because 300 ppl were in attendance

So right now dF vs TUP is going on and they have like 50 viewers.
Stop speaking to me kitten.

So now you are comparing a simple GvG to a massively advertised tournament? Wow, great logic dude. A better comparison to make would be that GvG compared to any Tpvp match going on at the same time, and have streamers from both. No advertising, and see how many people watch. I’m willing to bet the GvG would have roughly the same if not more viewers. Just because you don’t like GvG doesn’t mean it isn’t popular. You’re just making yourself look foolish now, so save yourself the trouble and stop.

Spvp streams hit 300 viewers quiete often even if they are just soloq’ing.

And a member in my guild gets around 150-200 average when we do our daily raids. GvG isn’t unpopular and can often times get more attention than Tpvp. Also keep in mind that tpvp has anet’s full support, so it’s only expected for it to receive more viewers. However when an unsupported game mode competes with a supported one, it should tell you something.

If you are talking about Chem he does not get 300 viewers not even 150 he has an average of maybe 110-120.

I didn’t say 300, but even your low number of 110-120 during raids, not even GvGs shows that it isn’t unpopular. You’re into thinking that if it isn’t the most popular game mode it therefore isn’t popular, which is wrong.

NinjaEd.3946:

I don’t see this patch making ranger op, since the pet still is going to drag us down. It helps a lot by making power ranger viable. Yes viable, just not optimal or best in slot for group comp.

The pet only drags us down in certain scenarios, in others the pet is invaluable. Obviously if you’re zerging and it’s impossible for your pet to dodge all the AOE, it will slow you down. But roaming, or small scare 5v5 etc, the pet is far from a liability.

Divinity runes? Ouch. After the ferocity nerf and divinity rune nerf, they are really lackluster atm. Also if you’re going to use SB, using a full set of celestial trinkets I find actually really works well with it. SB in my opinion is more of a hybrid weapon, because you will never see any really high numbers with it, but the bleed pressure it can provide and the rapid fire coupled with some bleed on crit traits can make this quite the lethal little pea shooter.

Honestly I would recommend getting rid of all the rampager gear, replacing the weapon with a zerker sb and the armour should be a Soldier/zerker mix. Throw in celestial trinkets and you will have more of a hybrid build that, from what I can see, it looks like you are going for.

However, keep in mind, you severely hurt yourself by limiting yourself to both bows, as you said yourself, they do not compliment eachother, you also lose a lot of survivability and DPS, but if you’re into the whole ranger=bow thing that’s fine. Just keep that in mind though if you ever feel you’re coming up short.

Ristillath.6745:

warriorjrd.8695:

Ristillath.6745:

T raw.4658:

Ristillath.6745:

You really believe people want to see the current GvG where 20 ppl just running into each other and everwhere something explodes and you cant see sh*t?
GvG matches have like 300 viewers which tpvp tourney has less than that. Even the tpvp tourneys that aren’t that popular have more than the double of that.

I believe the Agg vs TA match had 2.5k viewers with all 3 servers queueing obsidian sanctum…so you were right in a sense because 300 ppl were in attendance

So right now dF vs TUP is going on and they have like 50 viewers.
Stop speaking to me kitten.

So now you are comparing a simple GvG to a massively advertised tournament? Wow, great logic dude. A better comparison to make would be that GvG compared to any Tpvp match going on at the same time, and have streamers from both. No advertising, and see how many people watch. I’m willing to bet the GvG would have roughly the same if not more viewers. Just because you don’t like GvG doesn’t mean it isn’t popular. You’re just making yourself look foolish now, so save yourself the trouble and stop.

Spvp streams hit 300 viewers quiete often even if they are just soloq’ing.

And a member in my guild gets around 150-200 average when we do our daily raids. GvG isn’t unpopular and can often times get more attention than Tpvp. Also keep in mind that tpvp has anet’s full support, so it’s only expected for it to receive more viewers. However when an unsupported game mode competes with a supported one, it should tell you something.

Ristillath.6745:

T raw.4658:

Ristillath.6745:

You really believe people want to see the current GvG where 20 ppl just running into each other and everwhere something explodes and you cant see sh*t?
GvG matches have like 300 viewers which tpvp tourney has less than that. Even the tpvp tourneys that aren’t that popular have more than the double of that.

I believe the Agg vs TA match had 2.5k viewers with all 3 servers queueing obsidian sanctum…so you were right in a sense because 300 ppl were in attendance

So right now dF vs TUP is going on and they have like 50 viewers.
Stop speaking to me kitten.

So now you are comparing a simple GvG to a massively advertised tournament? Wow, great logic dude. A better comparison to make would be that GvG compared to any Tpvp match going on at the same time, and have streamers from both. No advertising, and see how many people watch. I’m willing to bet the GvG would have roughly the same if not more viewers. Just because you don’t like GvG doesn’t mean it isn’t popular. You’re just making yourself look foolish now, so save yourself the trouble and stop.

Archaon.9524:

Zardul.3952:

deathmatch 10v10
everyone gets 2 lifes.

res ability like warbanner only effect 1 person. not 5.

kill each other until the team left standing wins.

10 celestial wars with banner gg

deathmatch with downed state will never work, let alone is not even close to what gvg is supposed to be… (GvG is not dat noskill zerg vs zerg pve heroes used to do in wvsw, that’s just an insult to pvp and even more to gw1’s gvg)

Put a group together and fight one of these “no skill zerg v zerg” guilds in a 15v15, and after you’re done getting steamrolled, come back here and tell me how little skill you must have to not be able to beat those skilless “pve heroes”.

You have fun with your conquest game, that has more bunkering points than actual player killing, while I actually enjoy something that is closer to deathmatch. Tpvp is a joke when you think of what PvP means. It’s conquest, give me a deathmatch gamemode in heart of the mists, and maybe you could call that pvp. Right now it’s whoever gets knocked out of the circle and whoever runs to the points faster. Stop kidding yourself bud.

Prysin.8542:

in WvW you can gain terrain advantage all you want. It is also much easier to play ranger there then PvP. Sure, less LoS to abuse, but much better terrain advantages.

It is more open, so while thieves can see you better, you can see them. Their teleports only carry them 1200 units, if you know how to play a thief with sword mainhand/shadowstep then you know how to counter them. For once, roll a thief and stop moaning about them. They are almost 85% L2P and 15% skill. Those remaining 15% are usually darn good players and would have rekt you in a naked bearbow ranger. So no, don’t think you can beat a well played thief 1v1 , almost noone can and that is the point.

It should also be noted that if a warrior players perifery then for the love of god, get it back into the zerg. Warrior in whatever build, no matter how specced for dueling it may seem, has no place in any 1v1 scene. I play a 1v1 build warrior, i know how to play this build, i know how to be efficient and i also happen to know that when my stun, block, shout heals and stability is spent, if the enemy knows how to apply pressure they will kill me. This is how warriors work. They can prolong their death by 20 seconds at best, but unless you have the nicest commander in the world, nobody gonna be sure to care to help you that far out in the periphery. That is how it is. If you get help out on the periphery it is because some player was nice or wanted to kill whoever was killing you for free bags, not because “skill group play”. This goes for the ranger too (obviously you knew that nobody would help the ranger, god forbid the ranger having mates to help it. Same argument you put out each time, what if there is 2x vs ranger, and the way you word it, it seems like the ranger is a one man zerg with zero allies).

Then you gotta look at it from this point. How much health does a thief have if running burst? 10-14k is the most reasonable amount.
How much damage does glassbow do in WvW? upwards of 4k AA against such thief, that is a fact.
How many shots do you fire before the thief is in shadowstep range? 2-3 depending on him dodging or 2x porting (2 CD’s) to reach you.
How much damage is that? potentially if all max out – a dead thief if you include air fire proc….

That is reality. That is how it works VS thief. YOU LAND THE FIRST SHOT and you win. It is not a question of IF you win. You will with high chance WIN:

You’ve been away from EU too long mate, but every top GvG wvw guild has DPS wars that do exactly what you said they can’t; they help out with the periphery. They usually can run in the melee train for extra bombing damage, but if they see low targets they pull off and finish him off. Don’t tell me 17k eviscerates has no room in periphery =p and when you’re in a hectic fight and not looking at everybody around you, you don’t see the animation either so it’s harder to dodge. Don’t mistake the NA bads that use greatsword and every other leap/dash in the game to run when they are low, for what a warrior can do in small scale. DPS wars, if played well, are invaluable in the current meta.

I’d also like to point out, if you are using shout heals, that’s not a 1v1 build, so I can understand why you would say wars have no place in duels, because you’re right SHOUT wars don’t.

Prysin.8542:

Otaking.4675:

So, what is the purpose of glassbow in PvP?`To tie down the enemy roamer. Make the enemy roamer use time and resources chasing you. This effectively prevents far point captures, and also makes ganking less effective due to the enemy lacking a roamer.

I find this a bit lame since the thief roamer can do this and also usually kill the other roamer. It sounds like you’re not killing thieves and just wasting a bit of time for other inferior roamers which is not that much value.

This is the main problem currently with power ranger roamer..too easily countered by thieves and sometimes eles, however the ele can be tied up in point assault pretty often since LB ranger has better ‘mobility’ which is equal to their mobility and 1500 range for faster rotation.

man, if thieves “counter” you. Just go L2P.

It is really a L2P thing… i rolled a thief, played it in PvP, in WvW….. for exactly 5 hours in order to figure out the pattern they most commonly use. Thieves are NOT hard to deal with. Not saying every single one of them is gonna fold like a piece of rice-paper, but they are not the hardcounter you think they are.

Lesson 1 in dealing with thieves – LAND THE FIRST HIT. YOU GOT TO HIT THEM FIRST.
Reason: Thieves got low HP and usually bad armor rating. Most of them run a pure damage or condi + damage hybrid. some may run sword + dagger for teleport and evade spam, but even then they are quite predictable.
If they stealth in a DD build, ALWAYS DODGE BACKWARDS. Never forward, never to the sides. ALWAYS BACKWARDS. in 98% of cases you will roll “through” the thief causing him to miss.

Lesson 2: “Read the thief build”
If you run condi or high damage, the most efficient way to “read” a thieves build is to assume full defensive stance and mitigate/outmanouver the thief during the first 2-3 strikes.
If using steal consistently, its most likely a trickery build, and you can risk getting dazed until hell freezes over, stability will be stolen, so dont use RaO or else the thief will steal it and nullify most of your cc. If the thief instantly pops shadow refuge after getting below 70% HP, he is most likely shadow arts with condi cleanse and regen during stealth. Aslong as he stealth, you lose. Use Wolf Fear to get him out of the field ASAP.

Lesson 3: NEVER EVER move in a repetitive pattern. Always move erratically. Try do what you would normally not do. This helps mitigate A LOT of their high powered “filler in” melee attacks. Save your dodges and utilities for when you need em.

Lesson 4: If using troll unguent, activate it BEFORE you drop below 80% HP. against thieves you are more likely to win if you maintain a higher “limit” of HP pool then not. Do not think you can gracefully avoid death at 10% or something crazy like that. If you think you can do that, heartseeker say you can’t. Deal with it. Either keep your HP high as best as you can, or RUN.

Lesson 5: When in trouble, call/move to a friend. That’s it.

Lesson 6: If no nearby friends, find a allied/neutral NPC that you can make the thief hit. Thieves really suck when they get pressured. Just a few moa NPC’s from WvW can really screw over a thief quite badly. Stack the odds against the thief when possible. He/she will only be good at 1v1.

Lesson 7: If thief have basilisk venom loaded, expect a steal + stun combo. Use hunters Shot to stealth then activate RaO, or GS4 block.

Lesson 8: Juke the thief into burning his initiative. Make him use “expensive” skills like Cloak n Dagger, Head Shot, Black Powder in vain. Let him spam it, you will most likely cause the thief to play passively for a few seconds. Thief only maintains the edge if it CAN pressure you, but just like rangers, once pressured it HAS to back down or die.

Lesson 9: If fighting S/X thief, try to remember the location where the thief initially teleported into your face. That is the location he will return to once he take some damage/gonna set up another steal rotation. If you remember the spot – drop a barrage or rapid fire on him as soon as he retreats. It will cause a lot of pressure, may even trigger some bad mistakes that ultimately causes him to die.

Also use sic em. If you time it well it’s usually a guaranteed kill, especially since its getting buffed after the patch.

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Prysin.8542:

Neko.9021:

Pretty sure Ele is the best giver of AoE healing over time. Elemental Attunement + Soothing Wave is just super strong.

not really, soothing mist is around 490 hp/sec. Add in elemental attunement with 300~ish healing per sec from regen, that makes a really good regen. Ontop of this, aquatic benevolence + monk runes + benevolence sigil makes that 47.5% stronger. Which whoops eles AOE “regen” for 5 players beyond 1600hp/sec. Water staff 3 will heal for almost 2300hpx2 pulses. The water staff AA will heal for almost 1000 hp splash heal around your target. Healing ele is simply amazing these days, but…. this is where you run into a “brick wall”…. i play this exact build in pvp right now. It is amazing for group healing and keeping your friends alive. It is not so great for mobility, damage (both aoe and single target), self sustain (squishy ele is squishy), pressure, conditions (ele suck at those anyway).

Healing ele, is a one trick pony. And while warrior can deal very strong cleave damage even in full cleric, the ranger will outright ridicule the warrior at single target damage (if you run feline or bird pet it will do insane bursts, almost close to backstab damage when/if buffed). Guardian will have more pressure and utility while providing the healing it does.

Ive tried cleric heal ele, it is amazing, and you CAN keep 5 players from dieing, however if you build a group around that sort of ele, you cannot sustain the group itself, because once ele is gone, you are gone. Staff lacks mitigations that other setups have.
Regen ranger will have at the very least 3-4 evades on short cooldowns, it will have a block, 3x leaps, stun breaker, mass AOE condi cleanse….
Warrior, same story, it has mobility, damage, CC, blocks….

Ele, it has magnetic shield, static field and burning retreat – once these are spent you are down to long CD utilities that will not bring you back up to where you need to be…

Just want to point out than an ele with all that healing power and heals, the majority apply to him/herself as well. Eles may be the squishiest class going by base stats, but if you’ve ever fought a D/D with celestial in spvp (not max healing power) you know they are far from it.

I play celestial staff ele with AB and benevolence sigil (+37.5% outgoing healing)…. i know how ele works. Their far from bad at healing, they even scale quite ok with it (and their regen is affected by traits, runes and sigils) however. AOE CAP.

I know, i was just saying they aren’t as squishy as you made them out to be =p

Prysin.8542:

Neko.9021:

Pretty sure Ele is the best giver of AoE healing over time. Elemental Attunement + Soothing Wave is just super strong.

not really, soothing mist is around 490 hp/sec. Add in elemental attunement with 300~ish healing per sec from regen, that makes a really good regen. Ontop of this, aquatic benevolence + monk runes + benevolence sigil makes that 47.5% stronger. Which whoops eles AOE “regen” for 5 players beyond 1600hp/sec. Water staff 3 will heal for almost 2300hpx2 pulses. The water staff AA will heal for almost 1000 hp splash heal around your target. Healing ele is simply amazing these days, but…. this is where you run into a “brick wall”…. i play this exact build in pvp right now. It is amazing for group healing and keeping your friends alive. It is not so great for mobility, damage (both aoe and single target), self sustain (squishy ele is squishy), pressure, conditions (ele suck at those anyway).

Healing ele, is a one trick pony. And while warrior can deal very strong cleave damage even in full cleric, the ranger will outright ridicule the warrior at single target damage (if you run feline or bird pet it will do insane bursts, almost close to backstab damage when/if buffed). Guardian will have more pressure and utility while providing the healing it does.

Ive tried cleric heal ele, it is amazing, and you CAN keep 5 players from dieing, however if you build a group around that sort of ele, you cannot sustain the group itself, because once ele is gone, you are gone. Staff lacks mitigations that other setups have.
Regen ranger will have at the very least 3-4 evades on short cooldowns, it will have a block, 3x leaps, stun breaker, mass AOE condi cleanse….
Warrior, same story, it has mobility, damage, CC, blocks….

Ele, it has magnetic shield, static field and burning retreat – once these are spent you are down to long CD utilities that will not bring you back up to where you need to be…

Just want to point out than an ele with all that healing power and heals, the majority apply to him/herself as well. Eles may be the squishiest class going by base stats, but if you’ve ever fought a D/D with celestial in spvp (not max healing power) you know they are far from it.

Ristillath.6745:

T raw.4658:

Ristillath.6745:

You really believe people want to see the current GvG where 20 ppl just running into each other and everwhere something explodes and you cant see sh*t?
GvG matches have like 300 viewers which tpvp tourney has less than that. Even the tpvp tourneys that aren’t that popular have more than the double of that.

I believe the Agg vs TA match had 2.5k viewers with all 3 servers queueing obsidian sanctum…so you were right in a sense because 300 ppl were in attendance

Yeah you are right it’s the best to watch the current GvG and you can see everthing that happens when the 40 guys run into each other.
The only thing the matches get so many viewers is because a bunch of ppl are zerging around and like to see the teams that they get kitten d from on the battlefield.
You can’t say it’s fun to watch it.
When it’s fun it’s only fun because you have a favour for one of the teams that are facing each other.
I watched a lot of GvG and even played some back in when RG was still there. It only was fun to watch because i kinda liked RG and hoped they win the matches and oc later on because of Sacrx’s commentaries.
But it wasn’t fun to watch because of the gameplay.

I disagree with you. I enjoy partaking in GvG’s and the more experience you have with them, the easier it is to understand what you watch resulting in it being more entertaining. I could say the exact same thing you did about tpvp, which just shows the whole thing is a matter of opinion.

Ristillath.6745:

You really believe people want to see the current GvG where 20 ppl just running into each other and everwhere something explodes and you cant see sh*t?
GvG matches have like 300 viewers which tpvp tourney has less than that. Even the tpvp tourneys that aren’t that popular have more than the double of that.

try 1200 + viewers, if you’re going to try and argue against something, educate yourself on the matter first. Also keep in mind that GvG isn’t advertised or supported by anet and rakes in those viewers, whereas the Tpvp tournament has forum threads, live videos from anet discussing it, and links of the forum’s main page. Even if the tournament got more viewers it wasn’t that big a difference, especially considering how much support it receives from anet.

GvG in gw2 is the deathmatch battle people have wanted since beta, not some conquest garbage anet seems to think is an “esport”

saratoga.4872:

Only if you have supply….. how many times have the enemy starved the supply of the tower to zero during the period where your particular server has poor coverage….. you rely on your siege to help you have a fighting chance to hold onto the tower or keep until coverage improves…. however the attacker KNOWS what they are up to…they will have worked out supply for their siege and their need for a number of these siege disablers. If there are only a couple ACs protecting the tower this will be insanely cheezy and easy for the attackers to take it….

This is also Yet Another Great step toward the borderlands becoming simply Karma trains….

This is a poor change…..and I suspect it wont be until this goes Live that most people “will get it”…..

This siege disable grenade thing is a projectile, and as such can be obstructed/ requires LOS. There are so many places you can place defensive siege that would be completely unaffected by this grenade, probably more than there is vulnerable spots. So what, you will have to place your billion arrow carts a little more strategically, but either way I think this whole thing is being over hyped. Remember when treb mastery was announced and everybody lost their mind about the supply drain when it hits a supply depot? I am in T1 and have literally never seen that happen… ever. These grenades cost 10 supply to throw, so lets even be generous and say everybody has supply mastery and took supply from a buffed camp, that’s two grenades, and keep in mind the attacking force has to build rams as well. Not to mention there is almost always a trebber hitting the gate with a cow supply drain, which makes it even harder for the attackers ( btw, those trebs are always in a position where they couldn’t be touched by these grenades).

TLDR: these grenades will probably have minimal affect of wvw because people will simply change their siege placement, so stop worrying. It will probably hurt attackers more than defenders tbh, as rams can only go in one place.

Your starting area is random. As random as the servers you get matched up with, and there are servers that have faced each other for 8 weeks straight. It’s probably easier to get the POI or vista by taking the objective rather than waiting until it’s on your side.

Prysin.8542:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Hey guys, I wanted to pop in and make a few points about the siege disabler.

• This is a thrown projectile, and as such, can be countered by abilities that block or reflect projectiles (Shield of Absorption, Swirling Winds, etc)
• It has a ~5silver, 10 supply and 15 badge cost. This cost coupled with the above point, will likely limit the amount that these items are used to important tactical plays.
• Siege is not permanently disabled, the disabler is just meant to open up a window of opportunity. Players may choose to spread their siege out more to be less vulnerable to this tactic.
• As you are probably aware, we are adding Golem Mastery in the same update. This provides a new, viable option for countering a golem rush.
• The traps we’ve added in the past, have seen low use. So we intentionally created this trick to be a bit on the stronger side. However, it’s still hard to say exactly how it will play out in the live game, but if it ends up hurting gameplay more than helping it we are open to adjusting it in the future.

what is the range of said projectile? 1500? 2000? 2500? and how is projectile arc? Like ranger arrows or engineer grenades?

Considering it’s a grenade, anet would just use the already in place system for grenade trajectory and copy that. They aren’t very keen on developing brand new things when they can just copy something else and add a new name or skin to it and call it “new”.

Prysin.8542:

nearlight.3064:

LB pew pew can be reflected, nullifed, or outright avoided, so there is certainly a fair amount of counterplay in some of these changes.

Im curious as to how you can avoid the longbow. I know you can just spam ADADADADADADA while moving, but that does not work against RTW, which every LB user should be using.

Yeah RTW makes it essentially impossible to dodge by strafing and blocking isn’t and issue if you have a brain. I sometimes humor myself by running missle deflection on my warrior and the amount of rangers that don’t stop shooting themselves is astounding really.

Don’t really care about any changes aside from the signet changes, with some of my builds I use the signets for the passives, but having the actives will make a massive difference. I personally think that ranger signet actives are the strongest in game, probably why it required 30 points to get them =p One thing we still don’t have and I do want, is an instant cast stability. Might seem like a small thing, but nothing is worse than getting CC chained and one of the skills the enemy interrupts is your stability, quite ironic actually. Making SotW instant cast wouldn’t be difficult considering all our other signets are instant cast, wouldn’t be OP either.

Rym.1469:

Durzlla.6295:

Rym.1469:

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

That doesn’t mean that Sword is bad for Kiting, sword opens up the distance bug time and can secure you a spot at ranged after you were doing whatever the kitten you were doing with sword.

Not to mention, we also have a pet so technically you could be dealing pressure damage while staying away from them depending on how you’re built.

Here, highligted incorrect term explained in post quoted by you.

Sword is there for disengaging, retreating or catching your opponent. It cannot be used for kiting since:

1. It’s a pure melee weapon.
2. There’s something called 10 second weaponswap cooldown.

If ANet would decide that Ranger doesn’t need that cooldown, then kk, sword can be used for kiting.

Now you’re just ignoring what people are saying and just continuing to type whatever you think is right.

data.4093:

warriorjrd.8695:

That doesn’t defend what you’re trying to say, and if you’re still crying about the range nerf to SB, ranger SB got the same treatment. Why is it logical that you can attack enemies from stealth? I assume because you don’t want SB to reveal you, you also want every other attack to keep you in stealth and you only lose it when it runs out? Any attack by the player in stealth should reveal them, not that hard of a concept to grasp.

You aren’t listening. I’m saying the nerf is NOT about the skill, it’s about the class. You say attacks by a player in stealth should reveal them but have you even considered mesmer’s temporal curtain, swap or moa skills? None of them reveal the mesmer and they come directly from it. We’re not even talking about the phantasms here. I don’t own a ranger or engi but I’m sure they have skills which don’t reveal them either. What on earth did you think I was referring to?

I assume because you don’t want SB to reveal you, you also want every other attack to keep you in stealth and you only lose it when it runs out?

wat.

While I agree that the mesmer attacks should receive the same treatment, the only reason I can see why it’s like that is because those skills don’t deal direct damage, or damage over time. Ranger doesn’t have any skills that do damage that won’t reveal him, engi idk.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Esplen.3940:

100% Fury uptime in addition to getting nice amounts of Might and Swiftness. The Swiftness isn’t really an issue, but having 100% Fury and instantly 8 stacks of Might while looking pretty definitely means they’re doing something wrong.

fury and might are boons which can be very easily removed.

Give me 100% protection and regen uptime and say the same thing.

data.4093:

warriorjrd.8695:

Tman.6349:

warriorjrd.8695:

data.4093:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What: “placed” AoE (i.e. Caltrops, Choking gas)
Why: Everything Thieves do must apply Revealed debuff, even if they fart in a crowded bus.

^ joke came true.

Yeah a 4sec poison field is definitely more powerful than a ranger pet, mesmer illusion or engi turret. >_>

Because any of those classes have as much stealth as a thief? Stealth is the thief’s mechanic, the other classes don’t have anywhere near as much in comparison.

When you consider that mesmers don’t get revealed when attacking from stealth, they can spend almost as much time per minute stealthed as a thief.. The other two don’t have the same access but that’s hardly valid when talking about ‘balancing’ a mechanic for one profession but not doing the same for others that use that very same mechanic. If stealth is going to reveal, it should ALWAYS do so.

The only reason this feels like a nerf more than a fix is because thief isn’t as AI reliant as the other classes you mentioned, but like I said, any AI the thief does actually have won’t reveal the player.

It is not a fix, it will never be a fix. It is another nerf to shortbow, on a 4 second poison field(lol). If we’re going to complain about attacks not forcing a player to leave stealth there are much more powerful things than a poison field. No one complains about shortbow but it is the most nerfed thief weapon set, all of the skills are nerfed. Even warrior longbow has a long way to go before it’s on par with the super duper overpowered thief shortbow.

That doesn’t defend what you’re trying to say, and if you’re still crying about the range nerf to SB, ranger SB got the same treatment. Why is it logical that you can attack enemies from stealth? I assume because you don’t want SB to reveal you, you also want every other attack to keep you in stealth and you only lose it when it runs out? Any attack by the player in stealth should reveal them, not that hard of a concept to grasp.

Rym.1469:

Kiting means that you do pressure damage during your movement.

Sword does absolutely no pressure during retreating.

Stop assuming that Kiting=Disengage.

You need a gap to kite, and sword is great for that. All of our ranged weapons have CC on them, so i’m completely befuddled when people say we can’t kite and maintain that gap.

Tman.6349:

warriorjrd.8695:

data.4093:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What: “placed” AoE (i.e. Caltrops, Choking gas)
Why: Everything Thieves do must apply Revealed debuff, even if they fart in a crowded bus.

^ joke came true.

Yeah a 4sec poison field is definitely more powerful than a ranger pet, mesmer illusion or engi turret. >_>

Because any of those classes have as much stealth as a thief? Stealth is the thief’s mechanic, the other classes don’t have anywhere near as much in comparison.

When you consider that mesmers don’t get revealed when attacking from stealth, they can spend almost as much time per minute stealthed as a thief.. The other two don’t have the same access but that’s hardly valid when talking about ‘balancing’ a mechanic for one profession but not doing the same for others that use that very same mechanic. If stealth is going to reveal, it should ALWAYS do so.

It reveals when the player themselves attack. As much as you don’t like it, an engi turret, ranger pet, or mesmer clone are not the player. However, each of those classes get the same revealed buff if they themselves attack. If you used thieves guild or had and AI runes, those AI wouldn’t reveal you because you aren’t attacking. It’s quite simple really. The only reason this feels like a nerf more than a fix is because thief isn’t as AI reliant as the other classes you mentioned, but like I said, any AI the thief does actually have won’t reveal the player.

data.4093:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

What: “placed” AoE (i.e. Caltrops, Choking gas)
Why: Everything Thieves do must apply Revealed debuff, even if they fart in a crowded bus.

^ joke came true.

Yeah a 4sec poison field is definitely more powerful than a ranger pet, mesmer illusion or engi turret. >_>

Because any of those classes have as much stealth as a thief? Stealth is the thief’s mechanic, the other classes don’t have anywhere near as much in comparison.

roamzero.9486:

warriorjrd.8695:

roamzero.9486:

Just lower the CD of Lightning Reflex to like 25-30s. Or make the evade on SB work in a similar way.

Ranger’s lack of ability to kite (when compared to other classes like Mesmer/Thief, or Warrior even) has always puzzled me, when it’s supposed to be the preemptive ranged dpser.

The game has been out for nearly 2 years and you still fail to realize that melee out damages ranged for the ranger? Forget about whatever description Anet gave for the class, they seem to know least about the class when it comes to balancing, so a bad source for any info that’s ranger related. Also, you are using the wrong utilities and build if you can’t kite. Ranger has so much access to soft CC is’s scary. You should try utilizing it sometime =p

I was comparing ranged builds to other ranged builds, not melee counterparts. Mesmers with staff and offhand pistol for example, Thieves with P/D or SB, Warriors with LB or Rifle + GS, all those generally outperform a LB Ranger currently as far as positioning /kiting goes (unless you can land LB stealth 100% of the time, gl with that..).

And you should try utilizing a Ranger’s soft CC against a profession that gets -98% duration on said CC :p

I haven’t seen a warrior use melandru for ages, and if they use it outside of a zerg, they are just a noob. Besides warrior is one of the easiest classes to kill solo, I find ranger roaming can generally kill most warriors. I still do sometimes run into the odd well played warrior, but they are far and few between.

I do somewhat understand how soft CC doesn’t always work, but it will still slow them down slightly, and every other class aside from warrior won’t have that much resistance either. However ranger has access to so many evades and movement skills that make it one of the most, if not the most, mobile or agile class when in combat. Sword alone can kite well, SB has an evade and a cripple. Rangers can kite very, very well, much better than a warrior, a thief, and a mesmer, you just have to use the right spec.

Sube Dai.8496:

warriorjrd.8695:

The only build that could kill something with Nomad, is a beastmaster ranger, and that’s only because the pet doesn’t get it’s stats from the ranger’s gear. Even still, does anybody even have a full set of nomad’s yet? I wouldn’t waste the time for a full set, maybe a few pieces could fit into a build, but a full set is pointless.

That could be the one useful nomad build right there!

Oh wait the pet’s dead…

You must not know what a beastmaster pet is… I wish you luck killing one, especially if the player wants it alive.

roamzero.9486:

Just lower the CD of Lightning Reflex to like 25-30s. Or make the evade on SB work in a similar way.

Ranger’s lack of ability to kite (when compared to other classes like Mesmer/Thief, or Warrior even) has always puzzled me, when it’s supposed to be the preemptive ranged dpser.

The game has been out for nearly 2 years and you still fail to realize that melee out damages ranged for the ranger? Forget about whatever description Anet gave for the class, they seem to know least about the class when it comes to balancing, so a bad source for any info that’s ranger related. Also, you are using the wrong utilities and build if you can’t kite. Ranger has so much access to soft CC is’s scary. You should try utilizing it sometime =p

The only build that could kill something with Nomad, is a beastmaster ranger, and that’s only because the pet doesn’t get it’s stats from the ranger’s gear. Even still, does anybody even have a full set of nomad’s yet? I wouldn’t waste the time for a full set, maybe a few pieces could fit into a build, but a full set is pointless.

fellyn.5083:

warriorjrd.8695:

DrDivine.5378:

warriorjrd.8695:

Axe offhand is getting a pretty big buff though, but cleansing ire needed tweaking anyway, so more of a fix than a nerf.

Really? can you tell me what the buff is? xD, and yeah, even though I LOVE cleansing ire, it did need some work. I guess I was a bit spoiled.

Axe 5 is getting 17% damage increase ( I believe thats the number) and I think a CD reduction, not 100% sure of the CD change, but I do know the damage was increased quite significantly.

Even with the buff axe auto attack is still likely going to provide better dps.

But yes, they are lowering the cooldown to 15 seconds.

Well nothing really beats axe AA in terms of DPS, but axe 5 will be quite good for building adrenaline, and considering the changes to adrenaline, that could be quite valuable. You might see more axe/axe warriors after the patch, and I might ditch off hand mace to try it out =p

DrDivine.5378:

warriorjrd.8695:

Axe offhand is getting a pretty big buff though, but cleansing ire needed tweaking anyway, so more of a fix than a nerf.

Really? can you tell me what the buff is? xD, and yeah, even though I LOVE cleansing ire, it did need some work. I guess I was a bit spoiled.

Axe 5 is getting 17% damage increase ( I believe thats the number) and I think a CD reduction, not 100% sure of the CD change, but I do know the damage was increased quite significantly.

Axe offhand is getting a pretty big buff though, but cleansing ire needed tweaking anyway, so more of a fix than a nerf.

BrunoBRS.5178:

warriorjrd.8695:

Prysin.8542:

Let us not forget that even with this patch, rangers still cannot win a fight by just keep pressing the same 3 buttons in succession to win. We gotta press 5 at minimum…. We got a long way to go before we get OP.

Nah man, i’ve hit 80k maul before on some bads, just one button m8. Cutting through them like a warm butter through a knife. And maul getting buffed too, now i will hit 90k on 5 targets! RIP melee trains.

lawl

No typo, my butter cuts all the knives.

Prysin.8542:

Let us not forget that even with this patch, rangers still cannot win a fight by just keep pressing the same 3 buttons in succession to win. We gotta press 5 at minimum…. We got a long way to go before we get OP.

Nah man, i’ve hit 80k maul before on some bads, just one button m8. Cutting through them like a warm butter through a knife. And maul getting buffed too, now i will hit 90k on 5 targets! RIP melee trains.

Dirame.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Anet launched the game saying there would be no GvG in the game. I think they’re probably looking at it now, but it was well known before launch that would not be part of the game.

I can’t say why that is, but we can theorize that in Guild Wars 1, though there was a hard core population of people into it, most players weren’t. They didn’t want to spend resources designing something up front that most people wouldn’t use, even though some were passionate about it. As I said, that’s just a guess though.

All of which is odd as they also indicated that they wanted GW2 to be an e-sport, something that is poorly supported by the current implementation.

Well, maybe they thought the current implementation would work better, and they’re invested in it so heavily they can’t just walk away. Like everything else it’s a business decision. You think GvG would make it a better esport. It might, it might not. It’s not your money that’s riding on the result, so it’s easy to say they should do it.

But in reality I’m sure they have people working for them who think it’s a good idea and people working for them who don’t. In any event, they did say straight out it wouldn’t be in the game. That’s my point.

But now, of course, that anything is on the table, it could be changing.

I don’t know. When you have a dedicated fanbase and a group of people sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for you to do something great so they can praise you to the ends of the Earth, I think I would take a chance on GvG.

My thought is that if you please your core audience they will bring you the masses.

GW2 had their core at the start but they squandered it and they are squandering their chances of expanding/retaining their current WvW playerbase by not appealing to the GvG cry.

The GvG scene has definitely dropped since it started, but it’s still alive, and one could say it actually competes with game modes anet supports and advertises. For ex: two big GvGs between the kings of EU and NA racked up nearly 1400 viewers on a stream, and that was unadvertised. A PvE tournament, which was advertised on the forum page by Anet, barely exceeded that if at all, in viewers. And PvE is supposed to be the most popular game mode… makes you think eh? Now i’m not saying GvG is or ever was the most popular thing to do in GW2, but what I am saying, is that even without anet’s support it can compete with things that anet advertises and pushes. Just imagine the GvG scene if anet actually supported it. I’m willing to bet that if anet actually focused on GvG and supported it, it could very well have been the most popular competitive game mode and the closest thing GW2 would ever get to an “esport”.

Don’t even need esc, just click the sky. Unless you’re balls deep inside a blob and there is characters in every single direction, including above you, then you can always click an area. The sky usually works for me =p

I’m waiting for Denaria’s 8 paragraph, bold font, essay on why deso would be your best choice.

T raw.4658:

Drop it down to 15 v 15

20 is a EU thing and considering the EU scene is 6 months behind the NA you should stick with the NA standard

Great idea though

Wait, when was the last time NA came to EU and was successful? Oh right, that never happened. Atleast when EU guilds go over to NA they are successful, maybe not all the time, but 1/2 is better than 0/1 amirite?

Dahir.4158:

Purple Miku, you are wrong. Elementalists are not so reliant on Earth Attunement to stack bleeds. There are sigils and runes available that produce bleeding and increase the duration. For a condition build you don’t need to go into Earth; Fire is also good even for PvE. If you want to keep your burning up there are Fire traits that do burning on critical hits and all sorts of other methods of keeping it up.

You don’t need to invest your whole build into condition damage, just have enough so that Sigil of Battle can help you out when you swap attunement. Also good to blast your fire fields all the time.

As you for saying ranger and warrior are better, I disagree a little. Sure they can use some conditions Eles cant, but we are still good; nobody really gives it a try that’s all.

Broski pls, rangers have better conditions than ele and warrior, only beaten by a necro really.

Mayama.1854:

Bhawb.7408:

That isn’t at all true but if you want to believe it feel free. 7/8 professions have a place in PvE groups, and you have GWEN + thieves for roaming and mesmers for veilbots in WvW. Its not a perfect 8/8 for every mode for sure, but its much more than 3.

Are you trying to disproof my statement with GWEN? Because GWEN is basicaly what I said…

GWEN is about warriors and guardians frontline zerging because of their synergy and skills. Eles are their to support and nuking. Necros are optional for that and work only if they are in a group that gives them stability. Mesmers are just a veil/port bot, who wants to play that? Thieves are only good for roaming and a ele or warrior can do the same + zerging with just a weapon switch.

Do you even know what a focus party is? At least from a guild perspective, mesmers are much more than veil bots, and a good theif is invaluable. Necro’s are also a must, not optional. I’m starting to think you aren’t even talking about wvw.

Prysin.8542:

warriorjrd.8695:

Kibazuka.1390:

warriorjrd.8695:

This honestly looks more like a chill build that an actual condition build. You have no immobilize either, which is vital for the success of trapper builds.

Yes, that is right, this is not an (damage)condition build and it being a chill build is obviously right as well. However since it utilizes traps, it is also a trapper. My bad about immobilize, the first pet is actually supposed to be a jungle spider. If you take owl you take fire trap instead of frost trap.

I cant believe you just called primal reflexes and shared anguish bad, i dont even know what to answer about that.
You are right again that this build has under average damage but the damage isnt as terrible as you make it out to be. You say permant poison with serpents strike and stalkers strike(you waste your evades just to get poison up again, really?) but you also say poison is easily cleansed, i dont really understand you. The reason it can be cleansed is why i have viper to assure 100% uptime. Sure, i cant spam burning but i can sure as hell spam chill, poison and bleed and he has to cleanse these AND all the other conditions so while he can cleanse some he cant cleanse everything and he will especially never get poison and chill of him. In the meanwhile i do damage through some conditions, the physical part of the attacks and my pet while preventing my own death with those lovely useless defensive traits.

So they just dont get themself killed? Look, since this is my build and i played chill builds for the longest time, i have some experience with it. The point of it is that you cant bunk it. It will not burst them in 3 seconds but it will kill them. Poison lowers their healing, chill almost doubles all their cooldowns, cooldowns for healing skills and condition cleansed included, weakness can also be permanent if they dont cleanse it, you cant kite it either. Playing defensively simply doesnt work. Especially guardians and eles get messed up extremely bad by it.
During the thousands of teamq battles i fought the only times i died in duels was when i messed something up or otherwise failed and died myself first or when i simply got outplayed against better enemies but i never even once met a person i wouldnt be able to kill.
Now you could say i only ever played against terribly bad people and there couldnt be anything i could say against that but then competent players seem to be so extraordinary rare that it doesnt matter.
Since you can guarantee me to know much more than i do you can surely show me a chill build that is far better than mine for both duel and teambattles?(swapping the traps for spirits and moving 6 to nature magic doesnt count)

Shared anguish is a waste of a trait. 1 CC ignored every 90 seconds is not better than vigorous renewal. And when you have a decent crit chance and condi damage based, sharpened edges is better than primal reflexes. You still get the vigor, but you get more bleeds. This is basic trait arrangement. Chill builds aren’t even the best builds for team support, 1v1 they work, but the larger the fights get, the less team useful it becomes.

This: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBHhNakRl6VrYxhFuWDAIUrDg7trbVDsz3O4DK40B-TZhBABAcIA04EAkz+DR8EAAvMAA would atleast do some damage. Although chill builds are pretty much up in the air, about 50% of the chill comes from runes and sigils is doesn’t matter how you spec really. Your chill build would easily chill the enemy no problem, but not much else. You kitten yourself hard with a celestial amulet.

sorry jrd, but that build is absolutely rubbish. Even with signet of the beastmaster made “default” it would still be rubbish…

Too much investments in too little gain.
No utility
No WTF buttons
No real damage
No pressure
Poor uptime in small or medium group
Irrelevant uptime in large groups (20+)

pppft signet of stone is yer oh kitten. Longbow burst will be nice with incoming buffs, but chill builds in general are more troll than effective =p

Sagat.3285:

EvilSardine.9635:

That apothecary build using the guard utility for perma regen is straight up broken in my opinion and needs to be nerfed. It’s completely unkillable in a duel and pretty much the only two outcomes are that you die or you keep stalemating the fight somehow but you’ll never win. Perma regen, a lot of evades, troll ungent, protection, with a stupid amount of condi damage.

It’s comedy running this build by the way. You can 1v3 so easily and if anything goes south you just casually retreat and they can’t stop you.

On p/d thief I usually kill the pet first then my conditions end up killing them since my condition damage and vitality are higher even with perm regen poison does it’s job and you can steal a good amount for yourself. The same is possible for other condition users especially necro and engi but for a non-condition user I got nothing toughness+healing is great counter to power but 1v3 I don’t believe it.

Edit: It is a very melee/mid-range build ranged dps should end up winning no matter how long it takes just don’t let him hit you.

Because guard is a shout taking soldier runes is a nice rune set for it, also evasive purity can usually deal with poison and other conditions quite well.

Kibazuka.1390:

warriorjrd.8695:

This honestly looks more like a chill build that an actual condition build. You have no immobilize either, which is vital for the success of trapper builds.

Yes, that is right, this is not an (damage)condition build and it being a chill build is obviously right as well. However since it utilizes traps, it is also a trapper. My bad about immobilize, the first pet is actually supposed to be a jungle spider. If you take owl you take fire trap instead of frost trap.

I cant believe you just called primal reflexes and shared anguish bad, i dont even know what to answer about that.
You are right again that this build has under average damage but the damage isnt as terrible as you make it out to be. You say permant poison with serpents strike and stalkers strike(you waste your evades just to get poison up again, really?) but you also say poison is easily cleansed, i dont really understand you. The reason it can be cleansed is why i have viper to assure 100% uptime. Sure, i cant spam burning but i can sure as hell spam chill, poison and bleed and he has to cleanse these AND all the other conditions so while he can cleanse some he cant cleanse everything and he will especially never get poison and chill of him. In the meanwhile i do damage through some conditions, the physical part of the attacks and my pet while preventing my own death with those lovely useless defensive traits.

So they just dont get themself killed? Look, since this is my build and i played chill builds for the longest time, i have some experience with it. The point of it is that you cant bunk it. It will not burst them in 3 seconds but it will kill them. Poison lowers their healing, chill almost doubles all their cooldowns, cooldowns for healing skills and condition cleansed included, weakness can also be permanent if they dont cleanse it, you cant kite it either. Playing defensively simply doesnt work. Especially guardians and eles get messed up extremely bad by it.
During the thousands of teamq battles i fought the only times i died in duels was when i messed something up or otherwise failed and died myself first or when i simply got outplayed against better enemies but i never even once met a person i wouldnt be able to kill.
Now you could say i only ever played against terribly bad people and there couldnt be anything i could say against that but then competent players seem to be so extraordinary rare that it doesnt matter.
Since you can guarantee me to know much more than i do you can surely show me a chill build that is far better than mine for both duel and teambattles?(swapping the traps for spirits and moving 6 to nature magic doesnt count)

Shared anguish is a waste of a trait. 1 CC ignored every 90 seconds is not better than vigorous renewal. And when you have a decent crit chance and condi damage based, sharpened edges is better than primal reflexes. You still get the vigor, but you get more bleeds. This is basic trait arrangement. Chill builds aren’t even the best builds for team support, 1v1 they work, but the larger the fights get, the less team useful it becomes.

This: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBHhNakRl6VrYxhFuWDAIUrDg7trbVDsz3O4DK40B-TZhBABAcIA04EAkz+DR8EAAvMAA would atleast do some damage. Although chill builds are pretty much up in the air, about 50% of the chill comes from runes and sigils is doesn’t matter how you spec really. Your chill build would easily chill the enemy no problem, but not much else. You kitten yourself hard with a celestial amulet.

Kibazuka.1390:

Lol, well at least you tried to argument it. You asked for the strongest trapper i gave you the strongest trapper, as in, the best trapper build to play, i had no idea strongest meant having the highest condition damage stat. That build, or variations of it, is one of the best if not the best ranger dueling build while not becoming useless in group fights either. If i remember correctly its also listed in the ranger pvp meta thread. I dont think you have any idea what horror that build is to fight against.
No condition pressure? Permanent poison, 5-10 stacks of bleeding, chill and often reapplied burning, cripple and weakness, that is condition pressure of its finest and 900 condition damage are enough, even when sacrificing everything for conditon damage you only have 1397. 1450 Power are not that much but ranger power scaling is horrible anyway but the crit chance and ferocity are there plenty making use of axes and swords hybrid nature and make it hit decent with the autos. And of top of that you cant kite the pet normally when chilled making the pet doing pressure too. 2700 armor is not squishy lol its just no bunker and it still has plenty of dodges and evades. Its a hybrid and makes good use of every stat thats why celestial is meta for trapper you know.

Normally you run nature spirit as elite, rampage is an alternative which you take for stability mainly. Lightnign reflexes is an alternative over SoR as well, for the lower cooldown but SoR is better in most situations. The active is amazing, godly for teamfights and you can just swap the pet afterwards lol. Even for most non trapper builds SoR is a standard thing to run, do you think its meta because the icon is funny? Makes me wonder how much you know about ranger class
Its dueling and pointfight abilities aside, in teamfights the build puts a lot of aoe condition pressure on the enemy team while helping your own team with healing spirit and spring, SoR and combo fields

BrunoBRS.5178:

…frost trap? freaking frost trap, really?

aoe http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Frost_Armor

How much I know about ranger class? Much more than you, I can guarantee you that. You took shared anguish (a pretty bad trait) over vigorous renewal, and primal reflexes over sharpened edges. You can’t re-apply burning fast at all, because nobody will stand in bonfire and throw torch is one condition to cleanse, and that’s if it’s obvious animation isn’t dodged by a competent player. Poison is more effective for it’s healing negation, rather than it’s damage, but again easy to cleanse. This honestly looks more like a chill build that an actual condition build. You have no immobilize either, which is vital for the success of trapper builds.

Like, you have no idea what condition pressure is when you think that that build applies heavy condi pressure. Just because you have X amount of conditions you can apply on your enemy does not mean it’s high condi pressure. You need to be able to re-apply those very quickly after they are cleansed, which you can’t do. Burning is your most damaging condition and you can’t re-apply it very quickly at all. You can maintain perma-poison with sword/dagger alone, so vipers nest is also useless, spike trap or flame trap would be better so you could maintain conditions.

You stack up so much defensive traits and utilities that you simply won’t kill a competent player with this build. It’s a chill build for crying out loud, and a bad one at that. If you can stay on the offensive the entire fight, the enemy will be focused on staying alive rather than attacking you, you wouldn’t even need all those defensive utilities and traits if you actually did some damage.

Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRAsY3fjMqUua7KerQ1aAAhaVA0uGa2wmdD0BfQJbIK-TJhHwAv2fAwJBAZZgAPBAA

Can kill enemies and stay alive as well, you just have to play carefully because you have no stunbreaks or stability, but every build has a weakness. That build there, is a trapper build, not some defensive laden chill build that has no condi pressure.

Equivocat.8246:

alchemyst.2165:

You said you were using zerker. Most likely the thief was using D/P revealed training 6/6/0/0/2 which means that you can practically 1 shot them. If you’re crying about 11k backstab when you’re zerker then that’s your fault for playing zerker…

How can you one-shot a thief as a necro, and what thief will stay in the open long enough for that damage to go through? I feared him off a point and he disappeared, next thing I know, I was melted. I also said Melandru runes, which give some toughness, however minor. And yeah, I don’t normally play zerker, but was trying something out in hotjoin, and I just happened into the situation. Kinda funny how the thief’s allowed to go zerker and get away with it, and everyone else has to suck it up and NOT play that.

And on topic, having a war as well, it’s a weird game where everyone’s waiting out, or baiting out the Eviscerate. They know you have it, and you know they know that the pain’s coming. The distance on the heatseeking isn’t big, but it is way too reliable since missing it doesn’t drain adrenaline. That, plus the relatively low cooldown, sigil of intelligence, and added condi pressure from Celestial runes/longbow/Impale, and it gets pretty overwhelming. Only have so many dodges, so do you dodge, the Pin Down, Impale, or Evisc?

“how can you one shot a theif with a necro?” If you’re playing zerker you should try using life blast sometime, maybe lich form. You are clearly unaware of how high a zerker necro can hit, so i’ll let you try those and figure it out.

Kibazuka.1390:

warriorjrd.8695:

Thank you for linking me all the available stun breaks, stabilities and condi cleanses (because I didn’t already know about them…). Now try and fit those into a build and still call it a trapper.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRAnY8fjMq0ta9K+rw1aAAhaVA0eGa2Ygd+2BfQBrOA-TZxFwAJOJAo2f4wRAAwDAoZZAA
No need to thank me.

You’re joking with that build right? I don’t think you even bothered to read my initial post at all, because I said the strongest trapper won’t have any stunbreaks/condi cleanses or stabilities. That build you linked is far from the strongest, infact with 900 condition damage, and one damaging trap you will have barely any condi pressure at all. 1400 power means you do next to no regular damage. I don’t even know why you would think of celestial amulet for a trapper, 2.6k armour is quite squishy as well.

You would run SoR as a condi cleanse and stun break, when the condi cleanse is abysmal and the active will kill your pet if you use it to cleanse condis. If you want a proper stun break, take LR. A 60s CD stunbreaker will do you no good, and like I said, the passive is terrible.

I honestly don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I know ranger has stunbreak, but that build will get smacked around by anything even without a condi cleanse. You have no condi pressure at all, RaO is a waste with that amount of power, and you even took the lowest damaging trap of the three. I hope you’re trolling with that build.

Kibazuka.1390:

warriorjrd.8695:

On the chance this guy is serious, which is possible because a trap ranger like the one described does have an extremely high amount of condi pressure. However, it’s one of the few builds that is somewhat balanced. I say this because the strongest trap ranger will have no stability or stun breaks. Minimal condi cleanse and very few boons if any. It’s a high risk high reward type of build.

Stunbreaks: Lightning Reflexes, Signet of Renewal
Stability: Rampage as One (Altough in real pvp Spirit of Nature is better)
Condition Removal: Empathic Bond, Healing Spring, Signet of Renewal, Spirit of Nature

Thank you for linking me all the available stun breaks, stabilities and condi cleanses (because I didn’t already know about them…). Now try and fit those into a build and still call it a trapper. LR + SoR leaves you with one trap. GL with condi pressure. You linked two elites, so you either lose the condi cleanse, or stability, and if you choose either of those, you lose even more condi pressure. SoR is terrible condi removal, 1/10s will merely delay your death, but not prevent it.

If you actually read what I wrote instead of thinking I have no idea rangers had condi cleanse and stunbreaks, you would see I said that a trapper with the most condi pressure would lack the defensive utilities. Of course you can take them, but you sacrifice the condi pressure, so you won’t do as much DPS as a pure trapper.

Coldtart.4785:

Given that you realise rangers should never approach the front line, what do you think that water field is going to do? You vastly overstate the gank squad’s reliance on stealth if you think reveal will make a noticeable difference and you do not do ‘lots and lots of damage’. Destroyer warriors and death shroud necros do lots and lots of damage, rangers just have one good burst attack.

A good focus party will stealth res any of their downed. A well timed sic em can prevent a res and garuntee the kill.

Prysin.8542:

to be honest, you are not thinking through your own replies even.

A; if you build for 100% bow usage, you fail. You got a secondary weapon for a reason, and thus you should compliment it accordingly (meaning main focus on main weapon, secondary focus on secondary weapon. L2Buildcraft).
I never spoke of Protect Me, nor did you in the post i replied to, so that is your words and yours alone, not mine. Protect me is useless in group battles as even a bear will not last long enough or provide utility enough to justify it. (L2Petusage).
Then let me address utility. Melee train wise we WILL be doing less damage, but we can do so while providing something else. For starters, frost trap is a really underestimated tool against groups. Long cooldown, yes, smaller then staff ele’s? yes. Is an extra on demand ice field still good? Hell yes.
Entangle – Even if it lasts only 1.5 seconds, it will still slow down and concentrate or isolate the targets. Thus you can bomb them more easily (L2Groupplay), with less likelihood of missing.
Oh, and finally, if nothing of this fits your bill there is always that last resort. Rezbot.

Mercy runes, Nomads gear (complete nomads gear), Healers Celery and shout heals…. Quickening Zephyr utility. If something goes down, you’ll rez it back up before anything can stop you.
Post patch – Signet of the Wild + RaO for “secure” rezz.

But you’ll just cry “but warrior banners is better, or even elite spirit”…. yeah they are “better” but they got a brutally long cooldown making them incredibly valuable “last options”.

Seriously, do you even know what a ranger is capable of?

I personally would go muddy terrain over entangle, just because of a shorter CD and less drawback if you’re blinded when you use it. I’m glad you mentioned frost trap, because I used to run with a CC heavy build (as you already know) and frost trap with 100% condi duration screwed over even warriors. The only problem, is frost trap really won’t have much effect without trap potency or higher condi duration.

One thing people need to stop thinking of with GvG’s is damage. A fight is not only damage. If you had a ranger specced to drop mass AoE CC (which ranger does best in the game btw), then you can and will slow down, even the enemy melee train. Immobilizing targets and getting them caught away from their group is the easiest way to kill them. 90% of the time, a CCed target, or somebody who is stuck, is a dead target, no matter what class/build they play. If you catch a melee out of his train, he will have to run just to catch up, possibly having to use a leap to stay in the train, instead of using that leap to get into the enemy. He may miss regroups, which could be vital for his healing. The fact immob stacks now, and rangers have so much access to AoE immob, they can wreck some serious havok on an enemy train. You even see it now with the top guilds using flurry instead of hammerstuns, because immob is king now.

It’s not all about damage in a GvG, sure rangers aren’t going to be as a tanky as other classes and may have less survivability options, but to say they are useless is a very wrong statement. That being said, none of these buffs really affect ranger’s CC capability other than the entangle change, but even without that ranger can still throw out more immob than anybody else.

Edit: a build like this for example:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBjODbkQlOWrXxcFqWD0HUrPgAYsb9DsngRoEK4UD-TVyAABDcEAkUJoM6GA4BAM0+D6o+jXK/g+CAwxBBgUAiNsC-w

That condi duration with the immob and CD on immob skills means more CC than probably all of the warriors combined, however the one major drawback, is no stab/stunbreaker. However, like I said, entangle has the chance to miss if you’re blinded so RaO could be better, and even ditching spike trap for LR might also be a good bet. That build can also do some decent damage as well, so it could assist with some periphery fights.