ya.. i could care less what happens to the torment on scepter because it will most likely only be relied upon by really bad cancer specs.. i do not even think it will be as strong as people expect.. and i dont see it ever getting into tpvp.
but just to stop the cancer ill trade torment for any other condi then bleed/torment/ fire is kinda strong also.
cripple/ chill / would be really funny.. since it would give us the ability to kite meele.. but lol super op.
pre patch.. a mesmer using a sword was like a thief with a broken steal button. it was thier main shadowstep that just didnt go where you wanted it to. now they are trying to fix it.. and people are complaining.. there is no way this is going to be game breaking.. but anet finally listened and people are trying to stop bugg fixes.
its crazy how long we have waited for this fix to our profession for people to try to shoot it in the foot on the forums.
illusionary leap is a clone based shadow step with short imob… it is really one half of a skill .. the other half of that skill is blurred frenzy.. blurred frenzy is a waste of space if you dont have leap and leap is a waste of space without blurred frenzy… its 1 skill that takes up 2 slots on our sword weapon.
even with all the torment tears.. my condi build when patch comes out will not even have a scepter in it.. wierd ehh? i think people are really miss reading this ready up or just dont know what its like to play an actual good condi spec for mesmer.. pu is not good. shattering clones that you use to produce your condis then expecting to auto attack them back with scepter is not good.
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so you are in a situation in tpvp matches where youu run into a pu condi mesmer as a bunker on a node.. and you are sent there as a solo mesmer to decap it. nothing wrong with that game.. continue on.. thats some high lvl stuff we should balance a profession around.
blackwater is trash. and will be after the patch. you guys must lose alot of fights to care this much about the change. i run 0 condi cleans kittenter and i still could care less about this change.
heh.. you understand how sill it is… for you to say a mesmer cant kill another mesmer. so what you are saying is every mesmer vs mesmer fight ends in a tie? or they get a double ko?
pu mesmers will do nothing after this patch but annoy hotjoins by dodge rolling in stealth.. the same as they have done before. if you are losing a game because a pu mesmer took your guardian / engi / whoever off point then i say you should lose.
on top of pu mesmers being almost useless to a team they are also slow and dont use portal.. sooo even more useless….
they also dont use boon strip on shatter/ one of the thigns that makes shatter good for tpvp on top of ranged pressure..
if you are in a tpvp match and you have a pu condi mesmer dodge rolling on point in staelth all you can do is face palm really.
if you think that same slow walking mesmer is going to push far and decap your bunker with pu. wow. because he has torment on auto attack.. that is what your team is scared of out of all the professions in the game.. a 2 second torment auto attacking pu mesmer? the pu mesmer will most likely not be auto attacking because pu will be dodge rolling and stealthing vs anything with any kind of damage.
in the same time that this pu mesmer pushed the base to solo a bunker or decap a shatter mesmer with his traited blinks / portal travelers runes(which condi has no ability to run) would have got there faster and put more pressure on that same bunker.. and be relevant at more then 1 spot at a time because of portal and actually having an impact on team fights.
helseth says one thing in a post. (because it was a buff that wasnt for his spec) and people just parrot every thing he says. seems silly
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so if you already couldnnt dodge ileap.. and you still cant.. why are people crying about the change? so it was fast and you could not dodge it before.. is that your point.. and now you cant dodge it.. k. no change.. move on.
sandrox if that is the new meta.. then anet did a good job at balancing mesmers.. because it pushed them away from using clone on evasion.. but then that also stops the mesmer from creating clones that apply torment with scepter unless you are using auto attack to do it..
seems like a bad build though.. which is why forum people shouldnt guess at the impact of patch notes without actually playing it. because they obviously dont have a grasp of how it will play and what the impact will be.
play the actualy patch before you start crying about things.. stop trying to guess that you know things you do not.. it may not have that much of an impact. im not sure how people jump so quickly to tears before play testing.. this is why we need a test server.. so you can get all your tears out early.. and get over it.
not sure why so many psychic tears are shed. play the actual buff before you start crying about it and stop being such a drama queen with so little info.
it is at the point now that whenever you kill someone.. they flame you for being pu mesmer.. even when you dont play pu mesmer.. i play shatter and some wierd hybrid specs.. and if you win.. “carried by pu” its just tainting the whole mesmer profession.
ya.. i agree with you.. torment is overkill in buffing scepter.. id take any condition that isnt torment/burn or bleed as part of the auto attack.. i agree it should have a condition but torment is a very strong condi. and i would be happy if pu was gone all together.
that isnt the point.. the point is what is passive and what is active.
the clone auto attack.. and clone death i can agree is somewhat passive.. but now the block is also passive? if they pushed the block button and it hit you with torment as an attack is that more or less passive then having it be a block?
so.. you attacking someones block.. is them passive applying torment to you?
how quick is it to avoid steal.. or shadow step. ? is ileap a better skill then steal that it is in some way broken. its a clone based shadow step with 2 second imob. that is it.
ill take a random condition that is anything other then bleed so it is harder to cleanse bleeds off. i dont even care what it is. id be happy if it just randomly applied a choice of 5 things.. which makes it very unreliable .. but it really dosent need much.
the fact that ileap needs to be balanced with pindown in mind for any reason is nonsense is my point in most of this.. the 2 skills are surrounded by a whole differnt set of skills/stats/traits and the comparison between them is not relevant here.
the fact that this thread compared pin down to ileap is nonsense.. it is more like the worst theif steal you could ever ask for.. ileap without blurred frenzy is complete garbage.. and blurred frenzy without ileap is also just an evade pretty much.. so 2 buttons on the sword = one skill.. or 2 bad skills.
ileap is steal with no damage.. no actual stealing.. no poison.. no healing.. nothing..
it it is a shadow step with a short imob..
not a pindown..
im not saying either or.. im saying that everyone is only talking about one part of the ready up.. and the other things tehy said are fine.
if they got rid of pu.. would you care about the scepter auto attack? or do you think you could kill a non pu mesmer? what is the issue.
the funny thing is that people think the torment auto attack is stronger then the ie staff clones.. i cant see any way of that being true.. the only reason i think that is an issue is because pu mesmers are scared to lose thier traited torches to trait ie.
but that is also themain reason the scepter buff isnt going to be a problem.. because pu mesmers are scared to stay out of stealth long enough to do 3 auto attacks.. and the clones only use the first part of the chain applying 2.5 seconds of torment with a slow casting time / interval.. it will be more pressure then before when you didnt even want to dodge roll while holding a staff because the clone was garbage.. but still. i dont see that being game breaking..
pu is the actual problem. and im ok with them getting rid of it.. its a crutch (pu) stacked on top of another crutch (stealth.. usually pu runn enough to get 100 percent stealth uptime)
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sorry you are quitting.. you were such a joy to the community.
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i disagree with making it bleed though.. anything but bleed because condi bleeds just need cover condis to help make the bleeds stick.
pu condi mesmer will still be worth less then 1 person with a real spec in a tpvp match
even with this change to ileap.. most people still will not use sword over greatsword for any reason.. because it is dumb for you to be mid fight in any team fight ever unless you are just trolling hotjoins. or dueling.. but w/e
warriors are a profession that can actually stay in meele range and meele.. if a mesmer did that he would get destroyed.. the only way a mesmer will ever use blurred frenzy offensive is with ileap and when it is done he is getting out of there before he dies. ileap blurred frenzy is the only time a mesmer will be meeling anyone who has any idea what they are doing.. if you dont see the diffence between that and a warrior.. not sure what to tell you.
and this has nothing to do with mesmers leap compared to warrior pindown.. those skills are not the same.. they are not on the same profession with the same defensive abilitys with the same anything.. some how pindown in your mind equates to ileap. just because they both have imob.. but you dont compare pindown to other imobs..
i get it you are kitten about the pindown nerf.. but the situaion is in no way the same.
the crazy thing is… warriors complaining about mesmers.. mind blowing. learn to play
hmm. its the same skill as before it always broke stun.. this kittening is horrid. the fact that you dont have a human projectile yelling hey im going to leap soon is a reason that it is too strong? how many skills in game were as telegraphed as the old i leap and you never heard mesmers crying about that.. the fact that it is still clone based and spawns something at you still leaves this skill more telegraphed then anything that dosent involve a clone + casting animation.. you are lucky its not just casting animation then you are imob. like any other professions skill would be
like necro dagger imob.. like pindown. like every imob skill that isnt mesmer. they just cast then imob..
im just saying that you just want to whine.. there are so many ways to deal with this that dont take 2 seconds of thought.. look at the mesmers animations and see the cast time.. and dodge.. i agree the old leap was the most telegraphed skill in the whole entire gw2 game.. but now it still has as much counter play as 75 percent of the other skills in the game.
and it seems that you are playing a warrior and talking about counterplay to this…. the counter play is.. your stance that lets condis not get applied to you.. cleansing ire… endure pain… every ability you have is counterplay to this.
the counter play to ileap blurred frenzy is retliation and the mesmer pretty much kills himself
pu is very bad.. it adds protection to a spec that is already in stealth 80 percent of the tiem.. if stealth itself isnt enough protection for you to stay alive then you just need to learn how to play.. on top of that pu builds kitten thier damage just to get to pu and usually choose torch which is a bad offensive weapon… the main point of the build is “i dont want to learn to play yet” there are strong condi builds.. that can melt people for mesmer.. pu isnt that build.
i agree with pindown being more telegraphed.. so heres the deal.. ill trade you ileap for pindown.. and we will call it a day.
im not sure why people saying applying a condtion on an auto attack is sooo crazy.. there there are so many weapons that apply condi on auto attack.. pretty much every profession has them.. i agree torment is pretty strong of a condi.. but so is fire and people apply that on auto attack.. imo if you are siititng in scepter auto attacking as a condi mesmer you are losing dps.. if you put up 3 staff clones and 3 scepter clones with torment… the staff will most likley beat out the scepter clones just auto attacking.. then you add ie.. and it will do 2x the damage.
and if a pu mesmer is standing anywhere auto attacking slowly they are a a target.. how many pu mesmers sit outside of stealth and do anything.. they use stealth because they can not play correctly and will not make themselves a target for very long before going back to hiding.
if you cant deal with 1 scepter clone keeping up 1 stack of torment on you.. you most likely werent going to win the fight anyway
they dont need a cooldown for ileap.. because in any fight where there is more then one person the clone will die on spawn and do nothing before it even hits the ground. im not sure the reaction time you have if you can spam the button to swap or not.. but the clone will still die…
and the counterplay to imob is condi cleanse.. how is there not counter play to imob. i dont understand how that is even being said..
yes mesmer is good at dueling people who dont know what they are doing.. that isnt what anet is balancing a game around.. do you think people are going to change to sword in tpvp tournys because of ileap. or do you think they are going to stay ranged where they dont get pooped on mid fight because they are an easy target for skilled players.
why would a mesmer go down to a point kittenter and ileap someone mid fight when they could just burn them down at range with a greatsword.
counter play to imob is condi cleanse.. its a condition
so many professsions in the game apply conditions on auto attack.. the only real issue is that torment is strong. but also with that being said.. alot of professions apply strong conditions on auto attack.. the issue comes in when clones also apply it.. but if you think that stacking 3 scepter clones is your best option on a condi mesmer.. then you need to rethink your choices.
and for the most part.. i dont think most people who used interupt can manage a ground targted daze on a moving target in a clutch situation.. so atleast it upped skill for that playstyle..
well this forces pu to lose traited torch atleast. or drop torch all together.. but stealth is a crutch most pu cant live without.
but in reality.. other classes have burn as an auto attack.. and the game didnt explode.. so w/e i think the main isssue is pu is braindead… and leads to bad players winning fights vs better players. which isnt how the game should work
if they just changed it to bleed / poison .. something like that id still be fine.. torment is a strong condi.. i still dont think it is that game breaking though.. the only thing that i see wrong with it is that it buffs pu.. which is like hambow and benefits people who dont know how to play the game.
but the thing you are missing i think is that there is no more “hey im going to leap you soon” kitten clone running up to your enemy.. you can sneak this one with less of a tell that it is going to happen.. good stuff.. leap was one of the most easily avoided skills in the game.. if you cant avoid a projectile that looks like a clone comming at you.. you need help.. good fix.
not sure how it is op at all.. scepter still ranks very low in our options for condi. the only reason it makes the cut is that it is better then mainhand sword when we need to run an offhand. before this it did so little damage outside of the block that it was almost a waste of weapon slot. it is still not very likely that you will choose to have 3 scepter clones up at any point to do damage. but atleast when you are forced to dodge with scpeter on you wont lose damage now.
i agree condi will be stronger.. but will it make it out of kitten tier into a viable tourny spec.. if they nerf our profession because of hotjoin heros running pu and being annoying i think that is silly.